I am a Christian (accepted Christ as my Savior in 1980)..but I don't use WORDS to force my beliefs on others...I believe that my ACTIONS speak louder than any words or tracts. Common courtesy and kindness to others...not 'judging a book by it's cover'...kindness to ALL living things(except bugs!)..that's what I strive for daily.


That's a good philosophy.. however, that won't bring people in.. that'll show them that there are good Christians, but not that Christ himself is good.. you could know a nice Satanist, but that won't make you a Satanist. Nonetheless, good life philosophy.

I'm agnostic, so I also didn't vote, but I thought I'd toss this little gem into the ring:

"Wherever I found religion in my life I found strife, the attempt of one individual or group to rule another in the name of God.  The naked will to power seemed always to walk in the wake of a hymn."  - Richard Wright

That's a good philosophy.. however, that won't bring people in.. that'll show them that there are good Christians, but not that Christ himself is good.. you could know a nice Satanist, but that won't make you a Satanist. Nonetheless, good life philosophy.
The thing is people think of Christians as 'holier than thou' because many Christians 'witness' by using words and tracts to 'win' people to Christ....yet the same people don't put their money and/or their time and actions behind those words...which makes some people 'closed' to Christianity "Oh it's just one of those holy rollers pushing religion on me when they're no darn better!"...as I said,if the ACTIONS are not there, the WORDS are pretty shallow!!

The thing is people think of Christians as 'holier than thou' because many Christians 'witness' by using words and tracts to 'win' people to Christ....yet the same people don't put their money and/or their time and actions behind those words...which makes some people 'closed' to Christianity "Oh it's just one of those holy rollers pushing religion on me when they're no darn better!"...as I said,if the ACTIONS are not there, the WORDS are pretty shallow!!


Yeah, I do see some Christians who act special and priveledged.. and it sickens me, other people, even other Christians who think how you do.

I do believe in God but I don't believe people who think they know what God wants me to do or not do. I think religion is good in teaching people ethics, but it shouldn't be enforced. Everyone believes in the same one God yet everyone has different opinions of what God wants... Christians, Jews, Muslims... they can't all be right!

Christians, Jews, Muslims... they can't all be right!

True... but they can all be wrong ;)

always did before, now I am starting to have doubts.

God is supposed to perform miricles, but he picks and chooses which person gets them??

If he loved everyone, wouldn't he want everyone to be happy and healthy.

Everyone believes in the same one God

360 million Buddhists,  900 million Hindu, 4 million Jain,  23 million Sikh, 20 million Taoists plus 205 million adherents of other Chinese religions, et al, might beg to differ.

I am a Catholic, and I do believe in God.  I just dont believe on people forcing religion on others.  But I do believe that organized religion such as the Catholic church is corrupt. 

I thought I found god again, but now I know there is no God.

I thought I found god again, but now I know there is no God.

"There is no devil, there's just God when He's drunk."

--Tom Waits

That quote crossed my mind a few times this week, especially coming from the man with th lyric,
"I wish I was in New Orleans/
a bottle and my friends and me."

I thought I found god again, but now I know there is no God.


It hurts to read this.  If you ever need to talk, I am just a PM away. {{hugs}}

I believe in god and am a catholic however i quite strongly feel that a persons beliefs are personal and everyones journey in life is unique. i used to work with a guy who was and still is a practising druid, we used to have some really interesting discussions, he once said that I was the most openminded catholic he had ever met, I took it as a compliment.Over the last 9 years myself and my family have had it pretty tough. I've been really ill with chronic fatigue syndrome but am really healthy again now, my mum has numerous health problems ditto my dad, and sister has work problems amongst many other things, faith has got us all through, but it's still tough even with beliefs, just for interests sake can I ask, as for a while i've wanted to know, how the athiests and agnostics on this site, cope when times get tough for them?What gets you guys through it all?

I believe in god and am a catholic however i quite strongly feel that a persons beliefs are personal and everyones journey in life is unique. i used to work with a guy who was and still is a practising druid, we used to have some really interesting discussions, he once said that I was the most openminded catholic he had ever met, I took it as a compliment.Over the last 9 years myself and my family have had it pretty tough. I've been really ill with chronic fatigue syndrome but am really healthy again now, my mum has numerous health problems ditto my dad, and sister has work problems amongst many other things, faith has got us all through, but it's still tough even with beliefs, just for interests sake can I ask, as for a while i've wanted to know, how the athiests and agnostics on this site, cope when times get tough for them?What gets you guys through it all?


Cary Elwes once said, "Life is Suffering, anyone who says different is either a liar or trying to sell something".  This philosophy could be one that is taken.

Cary Elwes once said, "Life is Suffering, anyone who says different is either a liar or trying to sell something".  This philosophy could be one that is taken.

The Buddhists believe life is pain.  I agree.

The Buddhists believe life is pain.  I agree.



Life is not pain, life is hell on earth.

Life is not pain, life is hell on earth.

What's the difference between hell on earth and hell in hell?

What's the difference between hell on earth and hell in hell?


I don't think there is another hell, we all live in it right now. death is the only relief we will get, then there is nothing.

I chose "believe" only because I have found not enough concrete evidence to say 100% "no" in a matter of fact way. It's too complex for us earthlings and I think that's why we go over and over the same stuff - but we never conclude an answer with any absolute resolution.

I don't think there is another hell, we all live in it right now. death is the only relief we will get, then there is nothing.


The black out theory?

I think pain might be unavoidable sometimes, but I don't think life has to be suffering.  I think we suffer because we expect certain things.  It's hard not to, especially in our society, but I think people in some societies suffer a lot less than we do.


I know you could have elaborated so much more on this and made it highly detailed and concrete.  What you say is so true.  I too could go on and on but the jest of it is, expectations that are not lived up to, cause a lot of our pains.

I think suffering comes down to one idea/word: 'should'.  If I was a really twisted and smart psychology PhD, I would have an experiment where I tried to raise an entire community of people with a language that does not include that word. 

If I was really twisted.  And smart enough. 

BHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!  *evil laugh*

It would be for a good reason though.    ;)

It doesn't bother me if there is no afterlife.  If there is no afterlife, you'll never know it!

It doesn't bother me if there is no afterlife.  If there is no afterlife, you'll never know it!


but what we will know is that everything in life is insignifigant, which I find much harder to believe.

but what we will know is that everything in life is insignifigant, which I find much harder to believe.

everything in life is insignifigant
But that's an impossible philosophical paradox!

It doesn't bother me if there is no afterlife.  If there is no afterlife, you'll never know it!


If there isn't an afterlife, then maybe there's reincarnation - I hope so, because I'd be bored to death in Heaven if I was there for eternity.

It doesn't bother me if there is no afterlife. If there is no afterlife, you'll never know it!


I definitely agree. I also feel that if there IS something it doesnt have to do with any mythical deities, there is a scientific process to it, just one that we aren't aware of yet. So no real worries about DEATH here. What makes me worry is DYING. If you catch my drift.

everything in life is insignifigant
But that's an impossible philosophical paradox!


Not if you read Rene Descartes

everything in life is insignifigant
But that's an impossible philosophical paradox!


I don't know - that just doesn't make a lot of sense. But you;re right - it's a paradox. If everything in life is insignificant, then what really is?

Not if you read Rene Descartes

Good idea.  I can find out the ultimate answer by boring myself to death!
:D

"...and Rene Descartes was a drunken f*rt, I drink therefore I am!"
--Monty Python


I definitely agree. I also feel that if there IS something it doesnt have to do with any mythical deities, there is a scientific process to it, just one that we aren't aware of yet. So no real worries about DEATH here. What makes me worry is DYING. If you catch my drift.

As one Woody Allen's most famous quotes goes:
"I'm not afraid of dying, I just don't want to be there when it happens!"

I believe in him, sure :)

I believe in him, sure :)

Oh, sure you do!
;)

I definitely agree. I also feel that if there IS something it doesnt have to do with any mythical deities, there is a scientific process to it, just one that we aren't aware of yet. So no real worries about DEATH here. What makes me worry is DYING. If you catch my drift.


It's just blood stopping flowing to the Brain.

Ever pass out? Imagine if you will.. passing out, and never getting up again.

but what we will know is that everything in life is insignifigant, which I find much harder to believe.

Well, we won't know it...  but why does there have to be any significance to our existence?

I read the works of C.S. Lewis. He isn't boring at all.

Well, we won't know it...  but why does there have to be any significance to our existence?


I think the significance of our existance is important, otherwise why would we care about global warming, medical care, killer storms - obviously we care enough about ourselves and our existance and what we do to our earth and elsewhere to be aware of these things and to want to continue life on earth. 

Ah yes... I guess it depends how one defines significance (or, more specifically, to whom the significance applies).  Our existance on the planet certainly has had more than a little significance for the many thousands of species we've wiped ou in our time, and may (or may not) have had a significant impact on the climate; but somehow, I don't see that as being what Harmonica meant when he talked about life being insignificant.

I read the works of C.S. Lewis. He isn't boring at all.


Oh please if you can tell me the quote about God being like the sun from C.S. Lewis, it's a great quote. If you don't know it, no big deal I'll look it up later.

Ah yes... I guess it depends how one defines significance (or, more specifically, to whom the significance applies).  Our existance on the planet certainly has had more than a little significance for the many thousands of species we've wiped ou in our time, and may (or may not) have had a significant impact on the climate; but somehow, I don't see that as being what Harmonica meant when he talked about life being insignificant.


Right on Philbo.  I meant clearly the answer type deal, that makes sense. I'm in a hurry to get somewhere right now and don't have time to explain myself througholy. What I mean is when we die finding out, whatever it happens to be, why we were here on this Earth.  WHether that be reincarnation, Heaven, The Underworld, or one of the many many other beliefs I haven't a clue, I also do not refuse in the insignifigant black out theory, however find it very very hard to concieve.

Ah yes... I guess it depends how one defines significance (or, more specifically, to whom the significance applies).  Our existance on the planet certainly has had more than a little significance for the many thousands of species we've wiped ou in our time, and may (or may not) have had a significant impact on the climate; but somehow, I don't see that as being what Harmonica meant when he talked about life being insignificant.


Okay, I guess I got a bit confused here as I thought Harmonica was in favor of significance in our lives. If that wasn't the case, then I am referring to what Maxwell Smart wrote earlier about it. It puzzles me in a sense that if things were insignificant, then why are we here at all? Some things have to have some significance, otherwise we would hardly value anything. Yes, in the end it may mean nothing, but right now it means everything.

Just because the human mind assigns significance to something, does not mean it is true. Each person assigns differing amounts of significance to different things; it is subjective.

In my opinion, if you want to look at it really basically and logically, the only thing of real significance is the fact that you are alive, and that you will die. You WILL die. Theres no winning here. The best you can hope for is to lose slow. Everything after living and dying is superflous.

Is life significant when we are asleep?


Yeah, because you are alive when you are asleep. That question does not make sense to me.

Well, I don't think anything is significant to me when I'm asleep. Not anything conciously anyway. The subconcious, is of course, always 'turned on'..

;D turned on, as in, it is always working. Whether you know it or not.

You WILL die. Theres no winning here. The best you can hope for is to lose slow. Everything after living and dying is superflous.


Thanks for enlightening me of my impending death  ;D

ultraviolet there is no need to get defensive over this. I wasn't talking down to anyone. Everyone knows that people(meaning all of them) die. But even so, that is something that most people don't REALLY understand. They say it, they know it, but they don't FEEL it, if you follow me. I admit it right now, I  myself am not to a point where I really understand how fleeting my own existence is.

There was absolutely no need to get condenscending toward me about it.

ultraviolet there is no need to get defensive over this. I wasn't talking down to anyone. Everyone knows that people(meaning all of them) die. But even so, that is something that most people don't REALLY understand. They say it, they know it, but they don't FEEL it, if you follow me. I admit it right now, I  myself am not to a point where I really understand how fleeting my own existence is.

There was absolutely no need to get condenscending toward me about it.


Hey, I was just kidding - didn't you see the "laughing smiley face" ( ;D ) thingy -
I just thought it would lighten things up as this is such a heavy topic.

Ahh, its cool, my apologies. I just thought you were being crass. :P

Ahh, its cool, my apologies. I just thought you were being crass. :P


Yeah, no worries - I'll get by  :\'(  ;D

There are several denominations (and even those denominations are split up) of Christianity claiming they've got it straight, and several religions claiming they've got it straight.

I don't see how anyone can know that for sure.  For the past several months, I've tried to believe in the Bible, but a few weeks ago I definitely decided I wasn't a Christian. 

Now, this leaves me confused on some issues, such as the origin of life.  Whenever we're questioning the beginning of time, you have the problem of infinite regression.  One thing caused another thing, caused another thing, caused another thing, etc.  If you believe in a god, this can be explained away with a simple theological argument that God is immune to the bounds of science, but if you don't, what is it then?

na i dont believe. if there is a god where did he come from. nothing can always be. everything has to begin and end some where some time. if u say another god created god well then where did that god come from. also i just dont think its possible for one living entity to constantly be watching over us and hearing are prayors.  and not to offned anyone, but how do you know that the bible wasnt written by one person who thought it would be a good book with a good story  and had no idea it would become a major religion. now, i believe there was a jesus but i thing he was just  normal person. the "virgin mary" just didnt want her husband to know she did it with another guy so she claimed that it was gods child and that he had special powers. just as grown up stewie says on the stewie griffin untold story " i visited jesus last summer, it turns out his abilities were a bit exagerated.

  Again not to offend anyone, just to state my point.

and not to offned anyone, but how do you know that the bible wasnt written by one person who thought it would be a good book with a good story  and had no idea it would become a major religion.


This is an ignorant statement to make.  If it was written by just one person, he would have had a hell of a writing cramp and a crammed head full of history, laws, and culture.

This is an ignorant statement to make.  If it was written by just one person, he would have had a hell of a writing cramp and a crammed head full of history, laws, and culture.


and screw 126 being the oldest living man...compared to the guy that wrote the entire bible all by himself, well that 126 year old man would be a pup, a baby, a young and I mean young stud. 

Bible written by one person?  The bible is 66 books!  Old and New Testament...Sheesh...that'd be one OLD dude.

and screw 126 being the oldest living man...compared to the guy that wrote the entire bible all by himself, well that 126 year old man would be a pup, a baby, a young and I mean young stud. 

Bible written by one person?  The bible is 66 books!  Old and New Testament...Sheesh...that'd be one OLD dude.


Let's see...if Genesis was written (or, to better phrase it, "compiled") around 1200 B.C. and Revelation was written in the middle of the first century A.D....

http://www.restoringamerica.org/images/old-man.jpg

Pretty damn old.

Let's see...if Genesis was written (or, to better phrase it, "compiled") around 1200 B.C. and Revelation was written in the middle of the first century A.D....

http://www.restoringamerica.org/images/old-man.jpg

Pretty damn old.



Old and Diverse.  They guy would not only have to change his hand-writing penmanship, but also the style and structure he wrote too.  Not to mention he'd have to know how to write in a few different languages as well.  Talk about a guy with imagination, he'd have to have 33 different personalties.

Old and Diverse.  They guy would not only have to change his hand-writing penmanship, but also the style and structure he wrote too.  Not to mention he'd have to know how to write in a few different languages as well.  Talk about a guy with imagination, he'd have to have 33 different personalties.


He's also a well traveled man.  One moment he's in Ur, the next, Bethlehem.  :D

He's also a well traveled man.  One moment he's in Ur, the next, Bethlehem.   :D


He must have had one heck of a camel or donkey express.

He must have had one heck of a camel or donkey express.


http://www.lapcr.com/2006%20SUV%20MERCEDES%20ML500.jpg

...courtesy of Michael the archangel?

http://www.lapcr.com/2006%20SUV%20MERCEDES%20ML500.jpg

...courtesy of Michael the archangel?


Ah shoot I haven't had a laugh like this on this board since Howard said something really funny a long time ago.  Which reminds me, I never see ole Howard and Bobby around no more, I should start a new Pro wrestling topic or something.

Ah shoot I haven't had a laugh like this on this board since Howard said something really funny a long time ago.  Which reminds me, I never see ole Howard and Bobby around no more, I should start a new Pro wrestling topic or something.


Bobby left the board, I think for good...

Howard still posts though, but I think just on Playful Penguin Place.

Bobby left the board, I think for good...

Howard still posts though, but I think just on Playful Penguin Place.


What happened to Bobby?

What happened to Bobby?


I think he said something about being too attached to the board and he wanted to get away from it for a while...maybe permanently.

sheth shady, do you believe i mean i know harmonica does look at his pic

Yes.

sheth shady, do you believe i mean i know harmonica does look at his pic



Do I believe I not knows what exactly The Kid is means in the about his talk?

WHA?

WHA?


Sometimes he speaks in tongues!
;D

Sometimes he speaks in tongues!
;D


I was just trying to relate.

sheth shady, do you believe i mean i know harmonica does look at his pic


I'm an agnostic, but I consider myself well educated in the Bible.

Some preachers make God out to be judgemental and intolerant...

I believe that God is loving and kind, and that He is not intolerant...there's room for all people in Heaven. That's the way I learned about God and Jesus. The Christian Coalition 'spin' God to make it seem He's as narrow-minded and judgemental as they are IMO!

My option isn't on there, so I didn't vote: I don't know if he exists, and I don't really care. I live my life as I do now, I don't care what will happen in the afterlife as we have no 100% evidence of what happens once you die.

I find it foolish (for me) to believe in something that hasn't been 100% prooven.

Some preachers make God out to be judgemental and intolerant...

I believe that God is loving and kind, and that He is not intolerant...there's room for all people in Heaven. That's the way I learned about God and Jesus. The Christian Coalition 'spin' God to make it seem He's as narrow-minded and judgemental as they are IMO!


I don't mean to offend, but this seems like wishful thinking.  The god of the Bible was pretty wrathful.

My option isn't on there, so I didn't vote: I don't know if he exists, and I don't really care. I live my life as I do now, I don't care what will happen in the afterlife as we have no 100% evidence of what happens once you die.

I find it foolish (for me) to believe in something that hasn't been 100% prooven.
You could say I'm an Agnostic.  :D

I find it foolish (for me) to believe in something that hasn't been 100% proven.

You don't need 100% certainty before you believe something, or believe *in* something... it isn't necessarily foolish to believe based on "balance of probabilities"; however, it would seem to me a little overoptimistic to be basing ones whole existance on a no-proof-whatsoever proposition ;)

My option isn't on there, so I didn't vote: I don't know if he exists, and I don't really care. I live my life as I do now, I don't care what will happen in the afterlife as we have no 100% evidence of what happens once you die.

I find it foolish (for me) to believe in something that hasn't been 100% prooven.



"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."



Cat