War on Drugs poll

It's an unwinnable war and the federal government knows it.  The war on drugs is a giant subsidy for law enforcement, government contractors (aircraft, surveillance equipment firearms, etc.), and the prison industry.  Over half the prison population is incarcerated on drug-related charges.  The "war on drugs" helps the government bully the people by way of pushy police and fear-mongering propaganda.
::)

It's an unwinnable war and the federal government knows it.  The war on drugs is a giant subsidy for law enforcement, government contractors (aircraft, surveillance equipment firearms, etc.), and the prison industry.  Over half the prison population is incarcerated on drug-related charges.  The "war on drugs" helps the government bully the people by way of pushy police and fear-mongering propaganda.
::)
And for every Pablo Escobar type that gets killed or incarcerated...there are ten more drug kingpins that take their place! You want to get high bad enough, there's always a way to do it whether through illegal stuff like cocaine, heroin, or marijuana..or do a "Rush Limbaugh" and get your hands on stuff like OxyContin!

And for every Pablo Escobar type that gets killed or incarcerated...there are ten more drug kingpins that take their place! You want to get high bad enough, there's always a way to do it whether through illegal stuff like cocaine, heroin, or marijuana..or do a "Rush Limbaugh" and get your hands on stuff like OxyContin!
Why do you think rehabs and detox centers do such a booming business? Because certain people would rather be high 24/7/365 than face reality!

The war on drugs is unwinnable, but it is loseable.  I have mixed feelings, it does seem like the government, like with everything else, is not using the money wisely.  But losing is not an option.  Marijuana, meth, cocaine and all the rest.  Do you want them on your streets?  No.  Do you want the police acting like jack-booted thugs?  No.  I really don't know what to think.

The war on drugs is unwinnable, but it is loseable.  I have mixed feelings, it does seem like the government, like with everything else, is not using the money wisely.  But losing is not an option.  Marijuana, meth, cocaine and all the rest.  Do you want them on your streets?  No.  Do you want the police acting like jack-booted thugs?  No.  I really don't know what to think.

Perhaps "war" is the wrong paradigm.

The so-called war on drugs will go on as long as there is money to be made.  If the USA was
serious about ending the war they wouldn't have gone to Panama to get Bush ones business
partner Manuela Noriega, and they wouldn't be blaming other countries for our problem, they
would concentrate on keeping the drugs out, on education, on raising the standard of living, and on not coddling our own convicted high level drug dealers(think Ollie North).

Not all, but a lot of the drug problem is due to family problems, bad parenting, etc.  Screwed up people become screwed up parents, and that leads to a lot of screwed up kids and on and on.

Not all, but a lot of the drug problem is due to family problems, bad parenting, etc.  Screwed up people become screwed up parents, and that leads to a lot of screwed up kids and on and on.

Same with alcoholism and Prohibition was deemed a failure.  Now, in the prohibition of the 1920s, it was not illegal to possess or consume alcoholic beverages.  It was only illegal to sell or transport them.  Imagine how the prisons would have teemed if the feds raided personal distilleries or locked up every fellow who had some old bottles in his cabinet.

Speaking of, I add a caveat to drug legalization.

When liquor was legal and heavily taxed, it was a constant cat-and-mouse game between the "moonshiners" and the "revenuers."  You could buy liquor on the legal market, but the taxes made the price a bit dear for poor folks.  Thus a huge blackmarket for illegal moonshine opened up.  The government hates getting cheated out of its dues, so dept. of revenue officers spent vast sums of money hunting down 'stills out in the brush, and chasing moonshine runners from hell to breakfast!

So if they legalize pot, but tax it at $100. an ounce, we'll have the same problem all over again!

Legalize, or even de-criminalize pot and I'll have a new spicies in my herborium.

Grandma made blackberry cordial throughout prohibition, and some overly sweet grape wine.  We finished off the last bottles in 1963 (she was quite prolific).

It is my understanding that in countries where drugs are legal, drug use actually went down.

Legalize, or even de-criminalize pot and I'll have a new spicies in my herborium.

Grandma made blackberry cordial throughout prohibition, and some overly sweet grape wine.  We finished off the last bottles in 1963 (she was quite prolific).

It is my understanding that in countries where drugs are legal, drug use actually went down.

There's quite a bit less alcoholism among the young in Western Europe where drinking alcohol isn't some forbidden vice and boozing it up isn't a rite of passage.

The system is a sham when it comes to the war on drugs. We throw people in jail for getting high, in effect ruining any real chance they have of ever regaining a normal life. Check this out. You get busted with even a small amount of drugs, they throw your @ss in the slammer and make you pay them a shhhload of cash to get out, then you go to court and they sentece you to up to two years probation or time in jail (your choice). If you take probation, they make you pay money every month and also subject you to urinalysis at your own expense. They keep you under a tight leash the whole time. If you mess up at all, sometimes even for a traffic violation, your probation is revoked and you're recycled into the system. If you finish either your probation or your jail sentence and you are released, it stays on your record forever, and it will affect (sometimes ruin) career opportunities, acceptance into colleges or other institutions, and even disallows you from crossing borders freely. Someone's life is forever haunted by that one "crime." It's ridiculous.

Decriminalisation is the only way to both discourage drug use and keep users out of jail while still punishing dealers with jail time. It works like this: Someone is caught with a small amount of controlled substance, they receive a citation. If it's a lesser substance like marijuana or mushrooms or Rx drugs, it ends there. If it's a hard drug like heroin, crack/cocaine, meth, ecstacy, LSD, etc... then mandatory rehabilitation is court ordered (which costs way less than jail, usually). If the government offered rewards for staying clean (like job placement, sobriety sponsors, help w/ relocation to get away from "old friends," and things of that nature) instead of just penalties for when you screw up, then the problem would decrease significantly. Also, if marijuana were legalised altogether and regulated, then the criminal element would be removed from it and we would be able to treat it like we do alcohol (i.e. "buds don't let buds drive stoned, man"). It would make things a whole lot cheaper, and simpler, and more sensible and it will allow us to concentrate on the real problems with hard drug addicts.

Being an addict doesn't necessarily make someone a bad person, so why should addicts be treated like criminals? Why do we treat them like garbage when we should be trying to help them? The possibility of jail time doesn't prevent people from using ard drugs and becoming addicts, education does. We should concentrate on educating the youth about drug use and its likely reprecussions, and at the same time helping to show people who are addicted a way out (not throwing them into a visious cycle of self-hatred and self-sabotage).

Universal health-care and an otherwise strong system of social support is key to the eradication of the sort of low self-esteem and desperation that leads people into addiction. And education from youth onward is the key to making sure people know the difference between good and bad decisions.

It's an unwinnable war


It's bloody impossible, how do you win a war against a noun  ;D

It's bloody impossible, how do you win a war against a noun  ;D


Iraq is a noun. So are Japan and Germany. But I get what you mean.

It's bloody impossible, how do you win a war against a noun  ;D

I dunno, William Bennett endorsed the idea of public beheadings for drug dealers.  I mean, if we were willing to set up guillotines in every precinct and summarily sever the head of every kid caught selling crack, dope, or pot, maybe we'd get some where.  If you got caught with a joint or a rock and your sentence was a severed hand, maybe you wouldn't take the risk, eh?  If you didn't tell the cops the names and addresses of everyone you know who sold or used drugs, maybe they could cut your tongue out too!  Are we ready to go Saudi on these mofos?  It might work!
:o

While there is an almost bottomless pit of money from the people who want to buy drugs, there will be an endless supply of people willing to run the risk and sell them.  It doesn't matter how many you lock away and pay humungous amounts of money keeping locked away, there will always be more if the rewards are still there.  Legalization (and taxation) is the only rational option: at least that way society profits from the trade, rather than spending on police; spending on the social consequences of drug use; etc. etc. where the only people getting the money are the ones you'd least want to give it to.

What really gets me is I am looked at as a potential painkiller addict because I sometimes have to take the stuff due to arthritis in both knees and my right shoulder..when I have to have cortisone shots in my knees or my shoulder IT HURTS LIKE H*LL for almost a week...and yes I have tried other painkillers like ibuprofen for that kind of pain. It doesn't work. And my mental-health staff says they worry about me becoming ADDICTED. They say "oh can't you take something like Motrin" or "a hot compress"..and they think my physical problems are affected by my MENTAL ILLNESS "It's psychosomatic" and then they get upset when I try to get relief...I'd bet they would say the same thing if I had cancer and had to take chemo "Oh live with the pain and the vomiting others do you might become ADDICTED to comapzine"....Mind over matter,NOT! Almost all mental health workers seem to be like that. I'm not part of the addiction thing.

While there is an almost bottomless pit of money from the people who want to buy drugs, there will be an endless supply of people willing to run the risk and sell them.  It doesn't matter how many you lock away and pay humungous amounts of money keeping locked away, there will always be more if the rewards are still there.  Legalization (and taxation) is the only rational option: at least that way society profits from the trade, rather than spending on police; spending on the social consequences of drug use; etc. etc. where the only people getting the money are the ones you'd least want to give it to.


Legalization is only part of the answer.  As long as making a junkie also means making money there
will be pushers out there.  We cannot underplay the devestating consequences of addiction.  Just because
it is legal does not mean there will not be people who do not have the means to support their habit and resort to criminal activities. 

What really gets me is I am looked at as a potential painkiller addict because I sometimes have to take the stuff due to arthritis in both knees and my right shoulder..when I have to have cortisone shots in my knees or my shoulder IT HURTS LIKE H*LL for almost a week...and yes I have tried other painkillers like ibuprofen for that kind of pain. It doesn't work. And my mental-health staff says they worry about me becoming ADDICTED. They say "oh can't you take something like Motrin" or "a hot compress"..and they think my physical problems are affected by my MENTAL ILLNESS "It's psychosomatic" and then they get upset when I try to get relief...I'd bet they would say the same thing if I had cancer and had to take chemo "Oh live with the pain and the vomiting others do you might become ADDICTED to comapzine"....Mind over matter,NOT! Almost all mental health workers seem to be like that. I'm not part of the addiction thing.


Once again I set the way back machine.  I can remember when the big debate was whether or not to give potent pain killers to terminally ill patients because they would become addicts.  We are talking about people in respite care, people who would never leave the hospital, dying painfully because they
"would become addicted"  There were major debates, a lot of it from the religious community about people not going to heaven if they died addicted!

What really gets me is I am looked at as a potential painkiller addict because I sometimes have to take the stuff due to arthritis in both knees and my right shoulder..when I have to have cortisone shots in my knees or my shoulder IT HURTS LIKE H*LL for almost a week...and yes I have tried other painkillers like ibuprofen for that kind of pain. It doesn't work. And my mental-health staff says they worry about me becoming ADDICTED. They say "oh can't you take something like Motrin" or "a hot compress"..and they think my physical problems are affected by my MENTAL ILLNESS "It's psychosomatic" and then they get upset when I try to get relief...I'd bet they would say the same thing if I had cancer and had to take chemo "Oh live with the pain and the vomiting others do you might become ADDICTED to comapzine"....Mind over matter,NOT! Almost all mental health workers seem to be like that. I'm not part of the addiction thing.

Same thing's happening to my sister.  She's been dealing with terrible orthopedic problems over the past year.  She is physically addicted to OxyCodone she takes for her back pain.  The thing is, she takes only enough to relieve the pain (which is less than prescribed), and doesn't get high off the stuff.  Nevertheless, the pharmacy staff was doling out copious 'tude when she would go to get the scrips refilled.  She spoke to the head pharmacist who apologised, and told her she must understand a lot of people abuse painkillers.  My sister was like, "Dude, if you have a problem, call my doctor, don't give me the evil eye."  She switched pharmacies and hasn't had a problem at the new one. 
If she could take an over-the-counter drug, like Ibuprofen, she would.  But the pain from this adult-onset scoliosis is excruciating. 

I had scoliosis when I was a kid, and I was in a back brace for nine months!

Anyway...

I think when people talk about the War On Drugs, they're pretty much worried about recreational marijuana Xstacy, Cocaine and Heroin.  I don't think the Rush Limbaughs are a big part of what people are worried about.

Legalization is only part of the answer.  As long as making a junkie also means making money there
will be pushers out there.  We cannot underplay the devestating consequences of addiction.  Just because
it is legal does not mean there will not be people who do not have the means to support their habit and resort to criminal activities. 

But legalization is a big part of the answer: why can't we remove the huge profit motive completely?  If someone's physically dependent on a drug like crack or heroin, supply the drug on prescription as part of a rehab/detox programme (as was done over here in the 60s and early 70s.. the stats on drug-related petty crime since are impressive.  It's hard to believe that politicians still see legalization as a "soft on drugs" vote-loser); basically make it such that there is no longer a lot of money to be made from pushing drugs. That's the one thing that'll hurt the drug barons, for a start.

To be honest, I'm looking at things from a sociological and (even more so) economic angle... but even from the addicts' side, it looks like a winner, too.  The only argument against legalization is that "it will encourage people to take drugs"... like they're not getting more than enough encouragement from the pushers now?  More and more of our youth are becoming dependent on drugs: we're not winning this "war" - we're not even heading in the right direction.  And it's all because of the blinkered nature of politicians and their electorate not to be able to see that current policy is if anything making things worse.

I say legalize pot (and 'shrooms, but that's just my opinion ;)), and use the addtional revenue to go after the meth labs.

That's why I suggested "war" is the wrong model.  Drug abuse needs to be treated as an illness and a behavioral problem, not a crime. 

You take a junkie and throw him in the slammer, maybe he'll detox, but maybe, just maybe, he'll get MORE DOPE!  Often times an addict manages to "kick the habit" in jail, but addicts in jail do not emerge "treated."  They go right back out on the street and buy more drugs.  In a few weeks or months, the addict gets busted again, and sent to jail only to repeat the cycle.

And if I've seen enough OZ, and I have, drugs seem to be available on the inside.

I'll have to agree with Maxwell on this one, if it's legalized, don't tax it.  There is no reason to punish people like that for using a legal product.  Same goes for tobacco and alcohol.

I say legalize pot (and 'shrooms, but that's just my opinion ), and use the addtional revenue to go after the meth labs.

Not only does this not make any sense, but it would go against all the arguments used by those who suppot making drugs like marijuana legal.

I'll have to agree with Maxwell on this one, if it's legalized, don't tax it.  There is no reason to punish people like that for using a legal product.  Same goes for tobacco and alcohol.

Not only does this not make any sense, but it would go against all the arguments used by those who suppot making drugs like marijuana legal.

Well, I meant don't tax it more than the regular sales tax.  If you hit products with punitive sin taxes, as they were doing with liquor in some areas, you create a giant incentive for black market product.  They're nailing tobacco pretty hard as it is.  I part company with the Dems who use high taxes on smokes as a disincentive.
For one thing, people who smoke tend to be lower income.  Nicotine is more addictive than heroin.  Smokers can and do cut back on the necessities for their families to feed their addictions.  Heck, I remember when my folks were dirt poor for a few years.  My stepmother was always well stocked with booze and butts.  I still resent her for it!
Also, the pro-cigarette taxers argue that revenue should go to pay for children's healthcare.  That's totally wrong-headed.  Imagine, buying health benefits for one group of citizens by the destruction of the health of another group of citizens.  It also creates the rationale, "I'm buying this carton of Marlboro's 'coz I care about the kids!
No way! Taxes from cigarettes, liquor, or gambling should only be invested in treating problems specific to the use of those products.
Anyway...

I partially agree with AL-B.  I would rather see drug enforcement resources chase down the most socially destructive drugs, such as Meth, PCP, cocaine, and heroin than bust peoples chops over drugs that generally hurt only the user, such as pot and psychedelics.
Unless you've been watching Dragnet or something, the only thing that happens when a person flips out on 'shrooms is he sits in the corner feeling nauseaous and freaked-out for a few hours.  Methamphetamines on the other hand...

Woody Harrelson thinks we're winning.

I partially agree with AL-B.  I would rather see drug enforcement resources chase down the most socially destructive drugs, such as Meth, PCP, cocaine, and heroin than bust peoples chops over drugs that generally hurt only the user, such as pot and psychedelics.



No one has ever died as a direct result of weed or shrooms. Accidents that people try to site as being "caused" by weed leave out that most of the time these people they're referring to had other substances in their system at the time, such as alchohol.

I have a friend who has cancer and uses the weed to alleviate the affects of chemo.  She is a criminal
much like the "looters"  who "stole" water, food, and clothes to survive.  The drug companies would
hate the decriminalization of marijuana since it could be grown in the garden. 

For a change, I am in agreement with the consensus on one of these threads.  I am not in favor of drug use, but I am in favor of terminating the ineffective war on drugs.

The annual budget of the Drug Enforcement Agency is $20 billion.  This could definitely be spent more effectively in other areas - preferably used to pay down the national debt.  And the time of law enforcement personnel could be better spent dealing with real criminals, not minor drug users.

No one has ever died as a direct result of weed or shrooms. Accidents that people try to site as being "caused" by weed leave out that most of the time these people they're referring to had other substances in their system at the time, such as alchohol.

People have died in accidents while under the influence of LSD and other pschydelics.  Not many, but it has happened.  People have also sustained injuries due to impaired judgment while on these drugs.  Never trip alone!  I don't advocate the use of psychedelics, but if you are going to use them, make sure you have a safe environment and a "guide."
Of course, deaths and injuries while under the influence of psychedelics attributable to impaired judgment are infinitesimal compared to the same under the influence of alcohol.  Also, the toxic elements of alcohol can kill you quite easily.  The hallucinogenic properties in psychedelic drugs are relatively non-toxic physiologically speaking.  In themselves they don't make you sick.  Other compounds in peyote, psilocybin, and mescaline can be nauseating and emetic.  Disreputable dealers may also add cheaper chemicals to these drugs which can be seriously toxic. 
There is also a danger in the psychedelic experiences of opening doors of perception you are not ready to enter.  People with established psychiatric disorders are well-advised to eschew them.  The reason I never took any drug stronger than hashish is because I have a lifelong history of major depression.

People have died in accidents while under the influence of LSD and other pschydelics.  Not many, but it has happened.  People have also sustained injuries due to impaired judgment while on these drugs.  Never trip alone!  I don't advocate the use of psychedelics, but if you are going to use them, make sure you have a safe environment and a "guide."
Of course, deaths and injuries while under the influence of psychedelics attributable to impaired judgment are infinitesimal compared to the same under the influence of alcohol.  Also, the toxic elements of alcohol can kill you quite easily.  The hallucinogenic properties in psychedelic drugs are relatively non-toxic physiologically speaking.  In themselves they don't make you sick.  Other compounds in peyote, psilocybin, and mescaline can be nauseating and emetic.  Disreputable dealers may also add cheaper chemicals to these drugs which can be seriously toxic. 
There is also a danger in the psychedelic experiences of opening doors of perception you are not ready to enter.  People with established psychiatric disorders are well-advised to eschew them.  The reason I never took any drug stronger than hashish is because I have a lifelong history of major depression.
We might as well ban booze AGAIN, but that will never happen...and I think the money spent going after the drug cartels in other countries would be better spent on teaching kids to abstain from doing drugs, and opening up more clinics so that people who want treatment would not have a long wait to get into rehab.

We might as well ban booze AGAIN, but that will never happen...and I think the money spent going after the drug cartels in other countries would be better spent on teaching kids to abstain from doing drugs, and opening up more clinics so that people who want treatment would not have a long wait to get into rehab.

I think no matter how hard we try, kids will expriment.  Some kids will get addicted, some kids will get hurt.  There is a need for education on the dangers of drugs, but not one that's full of hypocrisy and misinformation.  Kids see through that cr*p like cellophane.  There were many young people who died in the '90s heroin chic.  Some of them had never even taken a drag off a Camel!  I don't know if it would have made any difference to say, "Look, kid, pot isn't good for you, but heroin can kill you, like D-E-A-D, and it might happen the first time you use it!"
:o

There's a war on DRUGS?

Shoot, I'm losing track of all these got-dang wars.

I think we're at a stand-still with drugseses.

There's a war on DRUGS?

Shoot, I'm losing track of all these got-dang wars.

I think we're at a stand-still with drugseses.

:)

I suppose if you mix a "war on terror" with a "war on drugs", you might end up with a "war on g-turd errors" or a "war on trrrd grouse"... or possibly just a war on Afghanistan

The only way to stop illicit drug use is to:
1: Change peoples habits and dependency about said drugs, and that ain't likely too happen.
2: Completley close our borders, like we could, which still wouldn't be 100% effective 
3: Stop the manufacture of said drugs, not possible, no way, no how.

It's like trying to plug a tunnel with a roll of toilet paper.

I honestly don't see how or why someone would wanna get high, especially if they HAVE been taught the dangers that go along with it..or if their family members used it and the person grew up and saw the horrors of what drugs do FIRSTHAND....I don't even have a SIP of booze because of seeing my mother destroy herself slowly....