gotta hurry up and vote! he's in the courthouse now!

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=578&u=/nm/20051026/pl_nm/bush_leak_dc_18

he was questioning valerie plame's neighbors over the past few days, people say this is because they think he's going to press more than perjury charges, he's trying to find out if her neighbors knew she was CIA before the novak piece came out. meaning based on their testimony he's likely to press charges of illegally releasing classified information as WELL as perjury.

so the neighbors said they were "surprised" to learn plame was CIA. which means chances are good

He better hand down indctments, or it's all for naught.  I would rather see him indict and lose than back off now.

Or as the undergrads who read the news at my radio station say, "in-dicked-ments."
:D

They are going to make us wait another day. Who do you think will have the first illness/heart attack  making it impossible for him(I will not name namescheney)to answer any questions
or testify?

They are going to make us wait another day. Who do you think will have the first illness/heart attack
will make it impossible for him(I will not name namescheney)to answer any questions
or testify?



Michael Jackson?  :D




Cat

Michael Jackson?  :D




Cat

I was thinking more of

http://photos5.flickr.com/5265351_c5f31a1a0b_m.jpg
Oh, Lord, this is the big one!
You hear that, Elizabeth, I'm comin' to join ya, honey!

(l. Fitzgerald r. Cheney)

Oh Paaalese.  This is just the criminalization of politics, or is the the politicalization of crime?  I can't remember which, but whats a little leek of classified info, purjury, ans obstruction of justice amoung friend?

Oh Paaalese.  This is just the criminalization of politics, or is the the politicalization of crime?  I can't remember which, but whats a little leek of classified info, purjury, ans obstruction of justice amoung friend?

That's what Jon Stewart was saying last night!
;D

He also showed a clip of some House Repbulican tribute to DeLay, with DeLay in front of a huge cake, and some idiot with a ukulele singing (to the tune of "If I had A Hammer"), "He's a Hammer in the morning, he's a Hammer in the evening all over this land!  He's a Hammer of justice, he's a Hammer of freedom..."
I sure hope old Pete didn't see that.  He'd have a stroke and die on the spot!
:o

That's what Jon Stewart was saying last night!
;D

He also showed a clip of some House Repbulican tribute to DeLay, with DeLay in front of a huge cake, and some idiot with a ukulele singing (to the tune of "If I had A Hammer"), "He's a Hammer in the morning, he's a Hammer in the evening all over this land!  He's a Hammer of justice, he's a Hammer of freedom..."
I sure hope old Pete didn't see that.  He'd have a stroke and die on the spot!
:o


Pete Seger is the MAN!

That's what Jon Stewart was saying last night!
;D

He also showed a clip of some House Repbulican tribute to DeLay, with DeLay in front of a huge cake, and some idiot with a ukulele singing (to the tune of "If I had A Hammer"), "He's a Hammer in the morning, he's a Hammer in the evening all over this land!  He's a Hammer of justice, he's a Hammer of freedom..."
I sure hope old Pete didn't see that.  He'd have a stroke and die on the spot!
:o


Or, and I hope he's still strong enough, he'd demand royalties, or file charges for copyright infringment.


Pete Seger is the MAN!


Yes, Pete Seeger has been the man for a long time.  I'd love to work with him on a definitive retrospective collection, film and video. 

Now it looks like we'll have to wait again.  . ???

Maybe they've gotten to Fitz.

Or, and I hope he's still strong enough, he'd demand royalties, or file charges for copyright infringment.

Yes, Pete Seeger has been the man for a long time.  I'd love to work with him on a definitive retrospective collection, film and video. 

The Seeger family has performed an invaluable service to American folkways, whether in composing, performing, recording, archiving, or advocating.  There's not only Pete, there Charles Seeger, Mike Seeger, Peggy Seeger, and the late Ruth Crawford Seeger.  I've probably overlooked a couple.

So it seems that Libby was indicted today. Hooray! Who's next (please let it be Rove and Cheney)?

So it seems that Libby was indicted today. Hooray! Who's next (please let it be Rove and Cheney)?



And resigned!


http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051028/pl_nm/bush_leak_dc



Cat

omg, did any of you hear about the letter "scooter" wrote to judith miller when she was in jail? (and i'm sorry, a grown man going by the name "scooter," what's that all about????) "come back to light, and life!" there's this rumor they were an item... the thought of their coupling is a mental image i'd rather not have.

sorry, kinda dragging the discussion down here. so it sounds like he's going with obstruction of justice and perjury? no violation of the espionage act?

so i'm listening to some of the post-game here on mcneil-lehrer and all the commentators are saying, oh, well, it's over. obviously rove and cheney won't get indicted because fitzgerald had 22 months and this is all he could come up with. but are they missing the whole baseball metaphor? fitzgerald is saying that because scooter (lol! i can't get over that!) was lying to the grand jury he really doesn't know what's going on and he doesn't know how deep the rabbit hole goes -- he says he was like an umpire and libby kicked sand in his face and because of that he's trying with this indictment, among other things, to coax libby into telling the truth. so really, anything can still happen from here on in, including additional indictments -- it's not like libby was a loose cannon, he was obviously in with the rest of the administration and i for one find it unlikely he was acting on his own with all this.

that said, i also thought what fitz said was interesting about how anyone who wants to be illuminated over the iraq war, supporters and detractors alike, shouldn't look to this case for answers, because they'll be disappointed. because a lot of people ARE reading this as a referendum on the war and that's true that it might turn out to be something short of that.

I don't like it.  Libby's going to the gallows, and Cheney's gonna get off scot free.  Rove spent his entire adult life trying to make Dubya president.  Old Karl will dutifully fall on his sword to protect his investment.  As usual, the underdogs will take the fall, and the kingpins will beat the rap!
>:(

could be that libby takes the fall and everyone else gets off scot-free. but what i read fitzgerald as saying was that he wasn't done yet, he couldn't really figure out what was going on until he got honest testimony from libby. time will tell.

I think Fitzgerald is going to do what he can to indict who he can, but he is one against a brick
wall.  The higher ups have probably already gotten their stories straight and arranged it for Libby
to take the fall, with assurances of minimal jail time and promises of compensation.

I think Fitzgerald is going to do what he can to indict who he can, but he is one against a brick
wall.  The higher ups have probably already gotten their stories straight and arranged it for Libby
to take the fall, with assurances of minimal jail time and promises of compensation.


hmm. yeah, you might be right. it might be his best bet is to actually question people lower in the administration who might know something and are having a prick of conscience -- this being, after all, tied in with the pretext for war, and i can't help but think at least a few people in the adminsitration are troubled by the zeal with which the admin went to war.

but it's frustrating when people characterize what fitzgerald was saying as, oh, everything he's indicting for is things that happened after the outing of plame, so it's the investigation that led to the crime. assuming that libby, rove et al are exonerated from the leak, from outing classified information. because that's not what he's saying at all.

  Perjury hasn't been proven yet, but Fitzgerald said that due to what appears to be the obstruction and perjury, the underlying facts of the case (the treason part) could not be determined.

  My speculation may be premature... This is a very serious episode. In my opinion, worse than Watergate. There is ample evidence in the indictment to prove to my own satisfaction that Libby is guilty. F&@! being nice, Bush sure doesn't care about being nice. Let those who have eyes see. Kerry was slandered, his wife was slandered, McCain was slandered, his wife was slandered, this is Rove's modus operandi. There is a pattern here. The Niger document, that Bush relied on for the 16 words, was a forgery, and Bush knew it because Wilson reported it. Plame's identity was leaked. These are facts. From this I deduce that Plame's identity was leaked as retribution. This is just a deduction but it's consistent with the pattern, therefore not merely idle speculation rather a reasonable assumption...

  It's beginning to look alot like Fitz-mas, and I'll be leaving milk and cookies out next to the tree... :P

edited: because I'm an idiot...

¦nbsp; ¦nbsp;Perjury hasn't been proven yet, but Fitzgerald said that due to what appears to be the obstruction and perjury, the underlying facts of the case (the treason part) could not be determined.

yeah, i think chances are good rove might still be indicted, in any case unless libby decides to cop a plea (which i doubt would happen unless it came with the promise of his testimony in another case) the trial of libby is going to be a public spectacle, in which all the administration's dirty laundry -- mainly the rove dirty tricks you refer to below -- are all gonna get aired out...

¦nbsp; ¦nbsp;
Let those who have eyes see. Kerry was slandered, his wife was slandered, McCain was slandered, his wife was slandered, this is Rove's modus operandi. There is a pattern here. The Niger document, that Bush relied on for the 16 words, was a forgery, and Bush knew it because Wilson reported it. Plame's identity was leaked. These are facts. From this I deduce that Plame's identity was leaked as retribution. This is just a deduction but it's consistent with the pattern, therefore not merely idle speculation rather a reasonable assumption...

what's fascinating is that no one in the FBI or anywhere else decided to investigate where that forgery came from. it just seems to be a matter of no interest to anyone. ditto the forged bush-national-guard document, which i long thought was left out there as bait to discredit bush's enemies...

¦nbsp; ¦nbsp;It's beginning to look alot like Fitz-mas, and I'll be leaving milk and cookies out next to the tree... :P

edited: because I'm an idiot...

haha, nice. don't forget the whole safavian, abramoff, delay affair -- this sleazy character safavian was high up in white house procurement before he got tied in with all this stuff, and the abramoff matter is EXTREMELY hinky, up to and including weird connections with mob assassinations! so you might want ot leave out two sets of milk and cookies!

yeah, i think chances are good rove might still be indicted, in any case unless libby decides to cop a plea (which i doubt would happen unless it came with the promise of his testimony in another case) the trial of libby is going to be a public spectacle, in which all the administration's dirty laundry -- mainly the rove dirty tricks you refer to below -- are all gonna get aired out...



  Libby fell on his sword to protect Cheney and Rove, I say. He will be handsomely rewarded, no doubt.

  What I don't understand is why no one is discussing the corollary - a chief of staff (especially in THAT White House) never, ever does anything on his own responsibility. It might be his idea, but I'll bet Libby never even took a dump without Cheney's approval. Why we would think that Libby was solely responsible for this whole thing is beyond me.

  Of course an indictment is not proof of guilt. But it may crack open the door to the truth, and perhaps other people will be willing to come forward and tell what they know.