Victory for American gun lobby as victims are barred from legal action
The UK Independent
By: David Usborne
10/21/2005

The gun lobby in the United States scored a powerful if not unexpected victory yesterday when Congress passed a Bill that bans firearms victims from suing the makers of the weapons.

The Bill, which got the green light from the Senate in July, was approved by 283 to 144 in the House of Representatives, and will now go to the White House. Officials confirmed that it will be signed into law by President George Bush shortly.

The passage of the Bill offers some respite for President Bush as he struggles with low approval ratings, the fall-out from Hurricane Katrina and the recent filing of criminal charges against Tom DeLay, forcing him to stand down as majority leader in the House.

The vote showed how the political tides have turned in favour of the right-to-own-firearms camp. Celebrations were under way at the National Rifle Association, which had pushed hard for the law. For gun-control advocates, however, the day was a stinging setback.

"Lawsuits seeking to hold the firearms industry responsible for the criminal and unlawful use of its products are brazen attempts to accomplish through litigation what has not been achieved by legislation and the democratic process," said the House Judiciary Committee chairman, James Sensenbrenner, a Republican from Wisconsin.

Twenty lawsuits against gun manufacturers are pending around the country, all filed by local governments. When the Bill becomes law, they will be dismissed by the courts. Also protected by the new law are gun dealers.

Helping to ensure the Bill's survival was the larger majority of Republicans sitting in Congress since last year's elections, as well as growing public support for it, fuelled in part by events in New Orleans after Katrina, when the city was perceived as falling into lawlessness without protection by the police.

"Americans saw a complete collapse of the government's ability to protect them," said Wayne LaPierre, NRA executive vice-president. "That burnt in, those pictures of people standing there defending their lives and defending their property and their family where the one source of comfort was a firearm."

The firearms lobby, led by the NRA, is a huge contributor of funds to candidates at election time, and a large number of Democrats also supported the Bill.

A gun dealer who sold a rifle used by the so-called Washington DC snipers recently agreed to pay the families of the victims $2.5m (£1.4m) to settle a lawsuit.

Link: http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/article321123.ece

--And yes, I know this article is biased.

Guns don't kill people--I do.

---UHF

I hate guns, but it's stupid to sue gun manufacturers just cause someone used a gun in a crime.

I hate guns, but it's stupid to sue gun manufacturers just cause someone used a gun in a crime.


My sentiments exactly.

I hate guns, but it's stupid to sue gun manufacturers just cause someone used a gun in a crime.

I'm not much for guns myself, but the Constitution says you can have them.  A lot of these guns were designed to do one thing: kill people.  It's like suing Ferrari after losing your license for going 200 mph down the interstate!
:D

It's like suing Ferrari after losing your license for going 200 mph down the interstate!


I believe the example used was something like getting cut by a lawnmower and then suing the company for putting a blade on the lawnmower.

I don't like the idea of suing gun manufacturers for the same reason I don't like the idea of suing fastfood restaurants for "causing" morbid obesity.  It short circuits the deeper problems we need to address in our society.  Guns don't kill people, people kill people.  A cheeseburger can't make you fat if you don't eat it.

I'm not much for guns myself, but the Constitution says you can have them.  A lot of these guns were designed to do one thing: kill people.  It's like suing Ferrari after losing your license for going 200 mph down the interstate!
:D


Or like sueing McDonalds for burning yourself because you put a cup of hot coffee between your legs, then spilled it on yourself.

I actually own a pistol and a rifle.  I found shooting targets to be a very good way to relax, because it requires a calm mind to do it well.  And when they are not on the range, they are well locked up.  The pistol is kept in a safe, with a trigger guard, and the rifle has a trigger guard, and the bolt is kept locked up in the safe with the pistol.

And no, I do not hunt.  While I am not anti-hunting (as long as it is for food, not trophy), I have no desire to do it myself.  Other then jackrabbits when I was a kid, all of my hunting has been confined to paper targets, milk jugs, and aluminum cans.

One of my favorite bumperstickers says:

My gun has killed less people then Ted Kennedy's car

And as a side note, did anybody else here know that one of JFK's favorite sports was skeet shooting?

It's like suing Ferrari after losing your license for going 200 mph down the interstate!
:D


Funny you should make that point. At one point I remember when Danny Heatley (then a member of the NHL's Atlanta Thrashers) was injured and his teammate killed while he was speeding in his Ferrari. There was talk that someone should be held resposible for allowing such a young inexperienced driver behind the wheel of such a powerful car. It's a good point to bring up, but in no way should someone be sued over it...IMO of course.

I own a shotgun and a 303. And I was taught from an early age the responsibility that comes with handling a firearm. And how to properly store them safely so that people who may not know better will not have access to them, or if they were to get their hands on them not be able to use them. I've only used my shotgun once for target shooting. Living in the city, it's not like I can just go into my back yard and shoot at targets :D But I do go hunting with my father. Mostly duck, or geese. But I do enjoy deer hunting as well.

I actually agree with this bill.  The manufacturer of a product, be it Smith $ Wesson or Burger King, is not responsible for the way the product is abused.  He11, I could beat my neighbor's brains out with a baseball bat.  Should Louievill Slugger be held responsible?  On the other hand, there is no ligitimate use for Uzzies or assult rifles in civilian hands.  Lots of cops will testify that some of them are outgunned by the bad guys.  Right now I own no guns, but have thought about building working replicas of single shot black powder pieces for display and target practice.  I did once fire a navy colt (44 cal I think) at a shooting range, along with some others.  Its an fun way to "blow off" a few hours.  And yes, I'm a fairly good shot.

Right now I own no guns, but have thought about building working replicas of single shot black powder pieces for display and target practice.


About 10 years ago, I built a replica of a black powder Derringer.  It cost me around $40, and about 4 days to build.  The piece came with a rough wood frame, which I sanded and coated with a deep walnut stain.  It came out beautifully.  You can also buy black powder rifles in the $100-150 range.

The interesting thing is, there is no DOJ background check for weapons like this.  No background check, no forms to fill out.  Just pay your cash and walk out the door with it.  I guess the figure that not many criminals are going to use a black powder weapon for a crime.

Never mind that one of the kits I looked at was a .55 cal Kentucky Long Rifle, and another was a .44 cal Revolver.

I gave the pistol to my father-in-law as a gift.  I was not going to take it with me from California to Alabama.

What eats at me is young people,some who are kids, having access to guns. There was an incident near my area, in Pleasantville NJ, where some crazy kid shot three people at a junior league football game...The victims survived, but I wonder how the h*ll this 15-year-old who did the dastardly deed got hold of a 'gat'...

But using rifles for hunting or skeet shooting does not bother me. What bothers me is the criminal element having access to not only shotguns but AK-47's and Uzis!

but AK-47's and Uzis!


Both of those have been illegal in America since the 1930's.  What do some people think we should do?  Pass the ban on scary looking guns that expired back in September of 2004?  No thanks.

What parent IN THEIR RIGHT MIND would let their kids have access to guns?

Obviously the parents of those kids are not doing their job...knowing exactly what their kids have in their possession..and kids think parents searching their rooms is 'invasion of their privacy'...when those kids end up in juvenile detention or jail...they will wish they never had a gun...

Parents need to do their job to keep kids away from guns..and the criminal element that use them to do mayhem!

What parent IN THEIR RIGHT MIND would let their kids have access to guns?

Obviously the parents of those kids are not doing their job...knowing exactly what their kids have in their possession..and kids think parents searching their rooms is 'invasion of their privacy'...when those kids end up in juvenile detention or jail...they will wish they never had a gun...

Parents need to do their job to keep kids away from guns..and the criminal element that use them to do mayhem!


Yes, but parents who use guns for hunting or just target practice have a obligation to teach their kids in the responsible use of guns.



The interesting thing is, there is no DOJ background check for weapons like this.  No background check, no forms to fill out.  Just pay your cash and walk out the door with it.  I guess the figure that not many criminals are going to use a black powder weapon for a crime.



When I first looked into getting a kit similar to yours there were all kinds of background checks, which I chose not to go through.  New Jersey in the 1970's.

Just the THOUGHT of being near someone other than law enforcement or hunters openly carrying a gun scares me...I don't even wanna HANDLE a gun....the thought of the harm that people do to each other with guns, as well as certain kinds of knives, scares the s*it out of me!

Just the THOUGHT of being near someone other than law enforcement or hunters openly carrying a gun scares me...I don't even wanna HANDLE a gun....the thought of the harm that people do to each other with guns, as well as certain kinds of knives, scares the s*it out of me!

Well, as the pro-gun crowd says, society gets a lot more civil if everyone's packing a piece.  Don't cut that old lady off in traffic, she might blow your brains out!  And if you do get cut off in traffic, don't give the guy the finger, he might blow your brains out!  Now that's what I call bein' reeeal civil-like!  Heh heh...
:D

People need to either wise up or shut up when it comes to one issue, and that's hand guns. The only firearms that are useful to us are hunting rifles of an appropriate (and by tht I mean rather large) size and strength. Handguns are designed to kill people, and should be illegal. If the police state comes, you can still use your hunting rifles to fight them off. Until then, any non-hunting firearms should be banned and be made illegal to posess. Either that, or the appropriate ammunition for them must be banned and be made illegal to possess, so possession of the actual weapon is rendered harmless.

Handguns are used either to commit crimes or to prevent someone from completing a crime. If no one had them, no one could use them to commit crimes and no one would need them for protection. It's very difficult to conceal a giant hunting rifle, and so we would see very few homocides committed with them.

Hunting is the natural right of any species at the top of he food chain, as we are, and to deny that right to someone is wrong. However, strict regulation of hunting and firearms used for hunting are not only right, but smart and essential. We need to make it almost impossible for violent criminals to attain a firearm of any kind. Once handguns and/or their ammunition are outlawed, this will be much easier.

Either that, or the appropriate ammunition for them must be banned and be made illegal to possess, so possession of the actual weapon is rendered harmless.


Still hanging on to that failed Clinton plan?

Handguns are not going to be made illegal in America anytime in our lifetimes.

Still hanging on to that failed Clinton plan?

Handguns are not going to be made illegal in America anytime in our lifetimes.

You're more likely to get gunned down on the way to the polls than get a successful ballot initiative on the matter.

The recent incident in Pleasantville NJ,with a teenage boy shooting three people at a kids' football game as well as Columbine and the Santee High shooting in California shows what happens when parents don't bother to find out any way they have to that their kids are or hopefully aren't carrying guns!  Parents are afraid to do stuff like room searches because they want to be 'friends' with their teens...teens need PARENTS not 'friends'.

Not to mention stuff like drivers who commit incidents of ROAD RAGE and use a gun to settle things!

People need to either wise up or shut up when it comes to one issue, and that's hand guns. The only firearms that are useful to us are hunting rifles of an appropriate (and by tht I mean rather large) size and strength. Handguns are designed to kill people, and should be illegal. If the police state comes, you can still use your hunting rifles to fight them off. Until then, any non-hunting firearms should be banned and be made illegal to posess. Either that, or the appropriate ammunition for them must be banned and be made illegal to possess, so possession of the actual weapon is rendered harmless.

Handguns are used either to commit crimes or to prevent someone from completing a crime. If no one had them, no one could use them to commit crimes and no one would need them for protection. It's very difficult to conceal a giant hunting rifle, and so we would see very few homocides committed with them.

Hunting is the natural right of any species at the top of he food chain, as we are, and to deny that right to someone is wrong. However, strict regulation of hunting and firearms used for hunting are not only right, but smart and essential. We need to make it almost impossible for violent criminals to attain a firearm of any kind. Once handguns and/or their ammunition are outlawed, this will be much easier.
which will NEVER happen because the NRA has members of Congress in their pockets!