If you say other, say what it is.

Not sure what a 'time out' is, so I just put down a whack on the tush!

And before I'm accused of 'child-beating', I (and many others) believe it's fine when justified...me and my sisters had the treatment when we pushed things too far and their kids have received the same...

Other than that, a good 'rollicking' also seemed to do the trick...

I chose other because I too have used both forms.....sometimes one works over the other...and other times...nothing works!!! :-\\





Erin :)

I have used both.

I use time out or "the look".  It is surprising how much you can get with a look, add to it
"that is not the way we conduct ourselves" and I guess I am a cartoon in the making, but it
works with mine, (and other peoples, too).    ;)

I'm not a parent, but I remember being a child... I chose "time out" for lack of a better option. I don't believe in corporal punishment. Every child misbehaves, but behaviours are learned so if your child is slapping the sh*t out of girls in daycare or something, then perhaps you're not setting a good enough example. The worst punishment is being grounded and having priveleges revoked. No phone, no TV, no dessert, no playing outside, no listening to music, no leaving the house etc...

It can be hard to resist a whack on the bottom for a young child, because they don't to respond to logical arguments of why they shouldn't do what mum and pop tell them not to. But in these cases, I think explaining that little Tommy cannot watch cartoons this afternoon because he diobeyed and that if he wants to watch cartoons tomorrow or any other day, he should behave is perfectly sufficient.

Another method I've read about is useful in dealing with tantrums, and that's just simply not responding to their antics whatsoever, and eventually they learn that tantrums are not effective methods of communicating their frustration.

It's ultimately up to the parent, but the line between "discipline" and "abuse" can be pretty hazy a lot of times, so it's best to avoid hitting.

I think hitting your kids is something that apes do, and I don't really approve of it... but that's just one man's opinion.

Both

I'd just like to point out that "fanny" has a different meaning down here.

So you might want to change it...

I'd just like to point out that "fanny" has a different meaning down here.

So you might want to change it...



Oy, I forgot about that. ^


Well, I'm not a parent...but I'm an Aunt, and I know that Time-outs don't work that well for Vaughn.



Beth

I voted "other" simply because I use both....it's usually a time out, but occasionally, a slap on the fanny (although it's usually a hand) is necessary...


She explained my answer perfectly.

I voted "other" simply because I use both....it's usually a time out, but occasionally, a slap on the fanny (although it's usually a hand) is necessary...


same here. It's a combo in my home.

I'd just like to point out that "fanny" has a different meaning down here.

So you might want to change it...


Where do you live and what does it mean down there? I'm guessing Australia, but I have never heard another meaning for "fanny" so could you enlighten me?

As much as I hate corporal punishment, I know it works.. I'm a pretty good example. I'm also a good example of the resentment it creates. It's just not worth it to have a child who seldom does anything wrong to have a child that hates you, I think.. but if you are able to find a balance, I say that occasional physical discipline is acceptable.

Where do you live and what does it mean down there? I'm guessing Australia, but I have never heard another meaning for "fanny" so could you enlighten me?

It refers to the female genitalia.  I think it does in Britain as well.

I didn't vote.  I couldn't make up my mind.  I'm not a parent, but I think if I was I would be way too lenient.
::)

I have to say I am against hitting of any kind...because I know with certain parents it can and DOES get out of hand. I remember the horrible physical stuff I had to endure in the name of "discipline" and "punishment"..which went WAY beyond spanking and a slap on the hand...my Mom burned me with a lit cigarette one time in a public bathroom after I had an "accident"...she said she did not mean to burn me, but the way she was acting at the time tells me another story..institutions and foster homes were no better.

Parents also really need to watch what they say to their kids. If one tells a kid "Oh,you're so stupid", "You are such a waste","I hate you", "I wish you were never born" over and over and over..the kid INTERNALIZES it. Again, I've heard those phrases used in the name of "discipline"..horrible.

Time out,the look, grounding, taking priveleges away, ignoring tantrums...all better ways of dealing with children's misbehavior.

and I can't say enough that 'catching them doing good' and telling them about it makes a child proud of their accomplishments.

I have to say I am against hitting of any kind...because I know with certain parents it can and DOES get out of hand. I remember the horrible physical stuff I had to endure in the name of "discipline" and "punishment"..which went WAY beyond spanking and a slap on the hand...my Mom burned me with a lit cigarette one time in a public bathroom after I had an "accident"...she said she did not mean to burn me, but the way she was acting at the time tells me another story..institutions and foster homes were no better.

Parents also really need to watch what they say to their kids. If one tells a kid "Oh,you're so stupid", "You are such a waste","I hate you", "I wish you were never born" over and over and over..the kid INTERNALIZES it. Again, I've heard those phrases used in the name of "discipline"..horrible.

Time out,the look, grounding, taking priveleges away, ignoring tantrums...all better ways of dealing with children's misbehavior.

and I can't say enough that 'catching them doing good' and telling them about it makes a child proud of their accomplishments.


What you described isn't discipline. It's cruelty. A good old fashioned smack on the butt never hurt anyone. It also lets the child know that you're the boss and you're not going to let them get away with misbehaviour. What annoys me about some of the parents I see is that they don't seem to use any discipline at all, or the discipline they do use doesn't work. Simply threatening a child does nothing; you have to actually do something. And some people have no idea. A couple of weeks back, my wife and I and our young baby were waiting in a supermarket line behind a young mother, her daughter and her mother. The child's grandmother took something off the child to pay for it, and the kid went nuts. Did the mother discipline the child to teach her to behave? No. To stop her screaming and thrashing around SHE BOUGHT HER A LOLLYPOP! No wonder the country's in a mess.

I don't get this whole "time out" crap.  I think whacks on the butt are fine.  When I was a kid, if me or one of my sibs did something really bad like lie or something, we got it on the butt with a belt from my dad.  I don't think that's abuse -- it was punishment.  People tend to lump hitting on the butt with stuff like smacks in the face and punching and verbal abuse and stuff like that, but I don't think it's even CLOSE to that stuff.  To me, THAT stuff is abuse.  I think it's MUCH more abusive to tell a kid something cruel and hurtful like "you're stupid" and "you'll never amount to anything" as opposed to just smacking them on the butt if they misbehave. 

I was a pretty well-behaved kid, but I got a belt-lashing a few times.  And I didn't grow up dysfunctional or violent or angry.  I think maybe that's because it was done in a spirit of discipline, never out of anger or frustration.  It was never done spontaneously in a rage, it was always my mom saying "when your father gets home..."  :-little cruel  ::) ), then when he got home, after he'd heard the judge state the infraction and pronounce sentencing, he would calmly dole out the appropriate number of whacks.  We'd rub our sore butts and cry, and all done.  No screaming, no fits of rage, no verbal abuse.  All very... civilised.  ::)


"Spirit of discipline" with a BELT? I'm someone who got a good thrashing every now and then... and it's monkey sh*t, totally. A smack on the bottom with an open hand is one thing, but getting whipped with a strap of leather is ridiculous. That's abuse, "spirit of discipline" or not.

I think some children who misbehave constantly are not just 'discipline problems'...I know that lots of those kids are emotionally troubled..and their 'acting out' can actually be a 'cry for help'....especially with kids who are victims of sexual predators or incest. Some kids are afraid to tell anyone about the abuse,or are too young to have the words to describe what's troubling them.

I have to say I am against hitting of any kind...because I know with certain parents it can and DOES get out of hand. I remember the horrible physical stuff I had to endure in the name of "discipline" and "punishment"..which went WAY beyond spanking and a slap on the hand...my Mom burned me with a lit cigarette one time in a public bathroom after I had an "accident"...she said she did not mean to burn me, but the way she was acting at the time tells me another story..institutions and foster homes were no better.

Parents also really need to watch what they say to their kids. If one tells a kid "Oh,you're so stupid", "You are such a waste","I hate you", "I wish you were never born" over and over and over..the kid INTERNALIZES it. Again, I've heard those phrases used in the name of "discipline"..horrible.

Time out,the look, grounding, taking priveleges away, ignoring tantrums...all better ways of dealing with children's misbehavior.

and I can't say enough that 'catching them doing good' and telling them about it makes a child proud of their accomplishments.
Something else bothers me...Parents who do those same things to their kids and say "It must be okay, that's how I was raised, and I survived it"..that's BS.

"Spirit of discipline" with a BELT? I'm someone who got a good thrashing every now and then... and it's monkey sh*t, totally. A smack on the bottom with an open hand is one thing, but getting whipped with a strap of leather is ridiculous. That's abuse, "spirit of discipline" or not.


The belt is more effective as an intimidation tool.. my father rarely actually used the belt, but he used it to scare me.. and by God, it worked.

If I had to say either "corporal punishment" or "no corporal punishment," I would definitely say no.
As I've said before, too often corporal punishment is meted out in anger and contributes to a cycle of domestic violence.  Never say never, some parents can impose corporal punishment humanely and effecively.  For some kids, a thrashing teaches the right lesson at the right time. 
I observed growing some that corporal punishment made some kids MORE defiant.  If the kid is angry at his father, he's not going to let dad get the best of him.  He'll be proud of the licking he can take from the old man, and commit the same infractions again just to spite him.
People who favor corporal punishment don't like to admit how high the percentage is of violent criminals who were beaten as kids.
We've all seen wimpy, indulgent "time out" parents too.
You have to get your child's respect.  If the kid thinks you are a wimp or an ogre, you won't get it.  And remember, "fear" is not the same thing as "respect."

Well I've never had the experience of raising a child from day one... but I did have the experience of suddenly becoming the guardian of four very un-disciplined children.  They stayed with my husband and I for about a year while their mother partied or whatever else she was too busy doing to care for her kids.

They were ages 11, 8, 5 and 3.  The 11 year old was mature enough to be grateful that she now had a place to live with food on the table every night, nobody coming and going from the house at 2:00AM, and decent clothes to wear.  She never really gave me any trouble, although she had alot to learn. (She thought taking a bath and brushing her teeth once a week was normal)

The two youngest ones liked to respond with "No" when told to clean up their mess, etc.  Yes, after reminding them that they are not allowed to tell me "no", they did get spanked if they continued to do this.  After the first month or so, I didn't have to spank them anymore because they realized that I was serious, and that I was not going to put up with them misbehaving.  I also gave them responsibilities.  They had to take care of these responsiblities (simple chores, homework, etc) before they could go out and play.

On weekends, I took them to amusement parks, Chuck E Cheese, skating rinks, etc as a reward for their good behavior.

I think time-outs and loss of priveledges is a good way to TEACH children right from wrong.  Spanking should only be used when the child clearly KNOWS they are doing wrong and is simply trying to test you. (ie talking back, etc.)

What gets my goat is when FOSTER parents are abusive....It makes me wonder, honestly, how well foster parents are screened and selected...and the states use the excuse "Oh well, we desperately NEED foster parents so these kids can have homes!" Why shove a kid from the frying pan(the parent(s) they were taken from)into the fire( a so-called "Great" foster parent who is actually a MONSTER!) Yes that happens...it happened to me..and yes it STILL goes on with other children left to the "tender loving care" of youth services(DYFS here in NJ!)It's sickening..but I have no illusions about the foster care system being reformed anytime soon.

The belt is more effective as an intimidation tool.. my father rarely actually used the belt, but he used it to scare me.. and by God, it worked.


I don't see why a child ought to be scared of their parents.

Something TonyStewartistheMan alluded to is verbal abuse.  There's a difference between verbal reprimand and verbal abuse.  My father was heavy into verbal abuse.  The say, "words can hit as hard as a fist."  True, and what is also true is words leave a longer impression than a fast.  My dad would start chewing me out about my grades or my behavior, or something.  Then he'd go on this tirade of insulting rhetoric that would go on for an hour.  The more I defended myself, the worse it got.  He'd make me feel like I wasn't worth dirt, he'd say he had no son.
It took me until I was in my thirties to stop his negative messages from interfering with my life.

I agree.  I think many foster parents shouldn't be allowed to BE foster parents, unfortunately, it looks like the system is getting MORE lenient instead of strict :-\\


I can understand your point, Kim.. but if you look at the other side of the coin, there is no fair solution to this problem.  I know I posted a big long thing about this before, so I'll just post the shortened version now. ;)

I apparently was not blessed with the ability to have children of my own.  After trying for several years, I looked into the possibility of fostering/adopting.  I started going to the classes, the orientations, etc.  During the application/paperwork/investigation process, they made me feel like a criminal, even though I have NO criminal record whatsoever.  They wanted to inspect my home, (and they wanted me to pay for it), they wanted us to undergo psychological exams, attend parenting classes, show them our financial statements, have physical exams, and a whole bunch of other stuff.  I finally got frustrated and gave up.  I'm sure I could have passed all these tests without a problem, as I have nothing to hide.  However, a 14 year old girl that is a drug addict can bring a baby into this world without having to go through any of this red tape.  So can a homeless prostitute that gets pregnant by someone she doesn't even know.  So why do I have to go through all this ridiculous paperwork and be "investigated" in order to be allowed the priveledge of being a parent?  Just because I can't conceive???

I can understand your point, Kim.. but if you look at the other side of the coin, there is no fair solution to this problem. I know I posted a big long thing about this before, so I'll just post the shortened version now. ;)

I apparently was not blessed with the ability to have children of my own. After trying for several years, I looked into the possibility of fostering/adopting. I started going to the classes, the orientations, etc. During the application/paperwork/investigation process, they made me feel like a criminal, even though I have NO criminal record whatsoever. They wanted to inspect my home, (and they wanted me to pay for it), they wanted us to undergo psychological exams, attend parenting classes, show them our financial statements, have physical exams, and a whole bunch of other stuff. I finally got frustrated and gave up. I'm sure I could have passed all these tests without a problem, as I have nothing to hide. However, a 14 year old girl that is a drug addict can bring a baby into this world without having to go through any of this red tape. So can a homeless prostitute that gets pregnant by someone she doesn't even know. So why do I have to go through all this ridiculous paperwork and be "investigated" in order to be allowed the priveledge of being a parent? Just because I can't conceive???
Some of the things I went through as a child make it hard for me to trust people..especially authority figures..today as an adult. And I have a hard time with letting anyone get close to me, emotionally.

I think extensive checks are good for prospective parents.  They should do them in a way that makes sense, and they should evaluate the information intelligently, but there's nothing more important to screen somebody for than parenting!  It is too bad there isn't some way to prevent the wrong kind of people from becoming natural parents too, but I don't that's a reason NOT to do it for adoptive or foster parents.  If you can help a child avoid a bad situation, why not!  Child welfare services is at least a way to try to help children whose natural parents aren't good ones.

Of course when they do screen, I think it's more important for them to look at how honest, nurturing, supportive, etc. the prospective parent is vs. how much money they make, but that's more an issue of the way the screening results should be evaluated -- the idea of extensive screening itself is the right idea.  No system can possibly be perfect, because in the end its all a subjective judgement call, and a wonderful person could turn out to be a bad parent, you never know.  But they should make a very strong attempt to make sure kids don't end up in a bad situation.

I have lately been thinking about the future and where kids may or may not fit into it, and I usually come to the conclusion that I don't want kids of my own. Life is full of suffering, no matter who you are, and in a time where there is so much suffering in the world that is so much worse than anything I have ever had to endure, why would I want to bring yet another participant into it when I could instead help to alleviate some of the more serious suffering by fostering and/or adopting someone who needs a home? I would feel obligated to do that even if I did end up having kids of my own, because it just isn't fair that a child should have to grow up without a loving home.

My dad was an orphan of sorts. His mother left him with his grandmother in Montréal when he was an infant, and when he was eight years old his grandmother died in a fire, leaving him without a home. He had to live in an orphanage for several months before they finally found some relatives in upstate NY that would take him in. When he was fourteen, his foster father died, and he was left to be the only man in the house and he had to pitch in and contribute. Basically I think he was robbed of a proper childhood, like so many orphans, being shuffled around like a burden. If I can help others from having to experience that, I think it is my obligation to. I just wish more able households would consider it before they decide to pump out seven kids of their own.

I can see your point, but I can also see the need for such extensive checks.  The "goal" of the foster system (or at least what it's supposed to be) is to reunite the children with their parents.  And, they are supposed to be looking out for the well being of the child(ren) (though we all know that doesn't always happen).  Could you imagine what would happen if they DIDN'T do these checks and just gave these children to anyone?  Granted, many of the parents should NEVER get their kids back, but legally, they ARE their children.  In the end, it's the children that benefit by having a stable, loving (foster) parent and it's the states job to make sure they get that (again, we know that doesn't always happen).


Yeah, I do realize that it's important, and I know I would feel the same way if it werent for my personal experience.   I just can't imagine that any person who wasn't going to be a good parent would go through all that crap.   I can also see why there is a shortage of good foster parents.   I didn't appreciate being scrutinized like that (at my expense) when I've done nothing wrong...although I may pursue it again in the future.. now that I know what to expect, it might be a little more tolerable.

I couldn't imagine going through that either, but unfortunately, in today's society, there are people who WOULD, just for the $$ (even though it's not much) :-\\



ya, my husband was in a few foster homes when he was younger...and the one was real nice...the people treated him well...but the other one was lousy.  They didn't treat him that well at all...but thankfully he was only in foster care for a little over a year.




Erin :)

Some of the foster parents I read about remind me of Wackford and Fanny Squeers from Dickens' Nicholas Nickelby!
::)

I don't see why a child ought to be scared of their parents.


Well, apparently, my parents both think fear is the most effective way to manage children.. I don't agree on this.

Can't vote, too few choices, and there is no formula.  It depends on the infraction and the situation.  I ruled out spanking because the only message it sends is that I am bigger and stronger than you, so I can inflict pain.  Time out has worked with my kids, as has grounding, extra chores, loss of privileges, etc.  I once scratched and dented my dad's car, and tried to avoid responsibility.  I paid for the repairs.  There are always options other than spanking.

Here's one method:  Parents not being totally crazy selfish jerks. 
That alone prevents much behavior that will require disciplining!
:D

Here's one method: Parents not being totally crazy selfish jerks.
That alone prevents much behavior that will require disciplining!
:D
I often wonder if parents sometimes require their kids to be TOO perfect...I've seen parents who yelled about every single thing their child does....especially when kids get fidgety. If I was a parent, I know I would not put my kids through going on errands with me all day especially if they are younger kids....I'd shell out the bucks for a sitter. I don't think it's fair to expect a three-year-old to be patient while you are shopping! Kids are kids.

First off, what is a "time out"?  And why does it sound so lame?

I know I'm rambling, but I never had kids, which I sometimes regret.  I thought about it all the time in my 20's, but I didn't have the money.  I was broke and my penny-pinching "418,000 dollars in my bank account isn't enough" mother wouldn't give me the money for food.  By the time I became well-off, I felt it was to late in my life to bother.  :(

a big slap in the butt.  thats what i always got!!!

slapping a kid in the bottom isnt abuss

First off, what is a "time out"?  And why does it sound so lame?

I know I'm rambling, but I never had kids, which I sometimes regret.  I thought about it all the time in my 20's, but I didn't have the money.  I was broke and my penny-pinching "418,000 dollars in my bank account isn't enough" mother wouldn't give me the money for food.  By the time I became well-off, I felt it was to late in my life to bother.  :(

You had 418 grand in the bank and you were still hitting the old lady up for grocery money?  Sounds like something Tom DeLay would do!
;D

You had 418 grand in the bank and you were still hitting the old lady up for grocery money?  Sounds like something Tom DeLay would do!
;D


My mother was the one with the 418,000 dollars.  She got it when she sold the family business we had for 30-something years.  That was my business, she promised it to me my entire life.  I remember asking her for money to eat not long after she kicked me out of the house a week after I turned 18, and she told me she was broke.  That was when she had the 418,000 in her account.

You can tell I'm bitter, can't you?

My mother was the one with the 418,000 dollars.  She got it when she sold the family business we had for 30-something years.  That was my business, she promised it to me my entire life.  I remember asking her for money to eat not long after she kicked me out of the house a week after I turned 18, and she told me she was broke.  That was when she had the 418,000 in her account.

You can tell I'm bitter, can't you?

Isn't that what you folks call "tough love"?

Okay, I can understand wanting your kids to learn independence, but that's taking it a bit far.....


I could give a few more examples of when she did that to me.  The one most in my mind was when I was five or six years-old.

Either way, I still care about my mother.  Don't get me wrong.  She has just wronged me a lot.  But she is the only close family I have left and she is very frail, so what I'm I suppose to do?  Tell her I hate her, have her die the next day and live with that on my chest for the rest of my life?

Again, can someone tell me what a "time out" is?

Again, can someone tell me what a "time out" is?


When a kid starts acting up you pick them up, take them away from where ever they are and sit
them in a corner or a chair by themselves for about 5 minutes.  They have to stay there, then apologize
for their behaviour before they can get off the "hot seat".  Seems simple and maybe a bit lame, but it
does work.  You have to start them young with it, and if you do it right there isn't any need to escalate
to physical punishment. 

When a kid starts acting up you pick them up, take them away from where ever they are and sit
them in a corner or a chair by themselves for about 5 minutes.  They have to stay there, then apologize
for their behaviour before they can get off the "hot seat".  Seems simple and maybe a bit lame, but it
does work.  You have to start them young with it, and if you do it right there isn't any need to escalate
to physical punishment.

It probably does work on some, but my hypothesis has always been that there are to many different behavioral patterns to say any one punishment always or never works.

It probably does work on some, but my hypothesis has always been that there are to many different behavioral patterns to say any one punishment always or never works.


Very true, but it is wise to begin with the benign and work up from there.  I think there is a major
problem with parents who lose control over there children at a very early age.  There is also a
problem of when you have parents who work against each other when it comes to discipline, and
kids figure out a a young age how to play one parent against the other.  Then they end up like those
idiots on "Nanny 911".  I'm not big on reality shows, but that one is one that a lot of parents should
turn in to see.

However, after spending last night with a child that has NEVER been spanked, and who is 10 and STILL throwing temper tantrums,  I stand by my theory that sometimes, a good whack on the butt could do wonders ::)



I think at 10 it is way too late for the smack on the butt.  The parents have created a problem for themselves, the child, and society.  It is my idea that when children are out of control it is the parents who need the whack.  There are too many things that could be going on, or have gone on in the childs life that have brought him or her to this kind of behavior that a smack on the but is not going to solve anything. Nanny intervention is definitely what is needed.  There are reasons that a child acts out, find the reasons and you can alter the behavior.

There are reasons that a child acts out, find the reasons and you can alter the behavior.


I think you overestimate the thought process behind a two-year-old.

I think you overestimate the thought process behind a two-year-old.


In the case in question I was speaking of a ten year old.

In the case in question I was speaking of a ten year old.
I also know that kids with emotional problems have a hard time being good and 'act out' because of the things in their lives that trouble them....and the HUGELY IN DENIAL parents don't bother getting their so called 'little demon' counseling...

all of you veteran parents out there I need some advice!



My little boy is nearing 3 1/2...and for about a month now...he has turned into a TOTAL brat!  He used to be so sweet, and yes, he had his moments where he would act up, etc...but lately I have been finding him being so mean. He won't listen (no matter what we say or do), he yells at us, says mean things, and sometimes even swears!!

I have been getting SO frustrated over all of this...I am not a very patient person, and am trying my hardest to be patient...but I usually end up yelling at him (and I know that isn't right to do)...but I lose my temper so easily. My husband is a lot calmer with him, and he has more patience.

He is being so very stubborn....he won't go on the potty and keeps going in his pants...he won't eat hardly anything now w/o putting up a fuss, he has started throwing things and yelling in a very mean tone...AGGGHHH...some days I feel like I am going nuts.


Is this normal? Have any of your children gone through stages like this?  Any input would be greatly appreciated!


Erin :)

It sounds like your kid got his terrible twos at 3.5 :(

My son's only 8 months old now but he's already manipulative and a bit spoiled :D  I wonder what you have tried to do as punishment.  You may have to get a little "draconian" (within reason) to get his attention.  If you can elaborate on what you've tried so far, maybe I can suggest something that I would try if I were in your situation.

all of you veteran parents out there I need some advice!



My little boy is nearing 3 1/2...and for about a month now...he has turned into a TOTAL brat!  He used to be so sweet, and yes, he had his moments where he would act up, etc...but lately I have been finding him being so mean. He won't listen (no matter what we say or do), he yells at us, says mean things, and sometimes even swears!!

I have been getting SO frustrated over all of this...I am not a very patient person, and am trying my hardest to be patient...but I usually end up yelling at him (and I know that isn't right to do)...but I lose my temper so easily. My husband is a lot calmer with him, and he has more patience.

He is being so very stubborn....he won't go on the potty and keeps going in his pants...he won't eat hardly anything now w/o putting up a fuss, he has started throwing things and yelling in a very mean tone...AGGGHHH...some days I feel like I am going nuts.


Is this normal? Have any of your children gone through stages like this?  Any input would be greatly appreciated!


Erin :)


Yelling is definitely not the way to go.  Try the time out thing, and watch Nanny 911  I 'm serious, they
really do show ways of dealing with the toughest situations, without going draconian.

Erin, another thing you want to make sure is that you tell him "I can't understand you when you're yelling (or whining or whatever)" then ignore him until he behaves.  Another thing is to try counting....you calmly (easier said than done, but it DOES get easier the more you do it) say "We don't *insert whatever*, that's one"  if he does it again, you simply say "that's 2"  on the third offense, he gets a time out for 3 minutes (1 minute for every year of age)....for things like hitting, you say "that's 3" and he goes to time out (you skip 1 and 2)  Now, granted, these have to be done within a reasonable amount of time....if he does something at 4 pm but not again until 5 pm, you start over at 1 @ 5 pm.  Also, make the time-out chair something "different".....not his chair at the dinner table or something he regularly uses....if he throws a tantrum in the chair, just hold him and tell him "you can't get up until you stop screaming and sit here for 3 minutes" (get a timer).  I have many more, but that should get you started....


*Takes notes*

Yelling is definitely not the way to go.  Try the time out thing, and watch Nanny 911  I 'm serious, they
really do show ways of dealing with the toughest situations, without going draconian.


Good idea.  Both Nanny 911 and Supernanny have great ideas on dealing with difficult children. 

all of you veteran parents out there I need some advice!



My little boy is nearing 3 1/2...and for about a month now...he has turned into a TOTAL brat!  He used to be so sweet, and yes, he had his moments where he would act up, etc...but lately I have been finding him being so mean. He won't listen (no matter what we say or do), he yells at us, says mean things, and sometimes even swears!!

I have been getting SO frustrated over all of this...I am not a very patient person, and am trying my hardest to be patient...but I usually end up yelling at him (and I know that isn't right to do)...but I lose my temper so easily. My husband is a lot calmer with him, and he has more patience.

He is being so very stubborn....he won't go on the potty and keeps going in his pants...he won't eat hardly anything now w/o putting up a fuss, he has started throwing things and yelling in a very mean tone...AGGGHHH...some days I feel like I am going nuts.


Is this normal? Have any of your children gone through stages like this?  Any input would be greatly appreciated!


Erin :)


My daughter is the same age and has been acting up like this for a couple months now.

I ignore any temper tantrums (as long as nobody is getting hurt), and I use the one-two-three time out, usually just reminding her (that she will get a time out) works. if it doesn't, she loses a favorite toy, or is not allowed to have a friend over to play.

As for meals, I don't worry too much about it. A child will not starve him/herself. If she refuses to eat, I take her plate and plastic wrap it, if she askes for something later, I give her back her plate of ood that she refused earlier.

I do that as well....no dessert until they eat it, either ;)



Don't you know that kids are starving in Japan!
;)

all of you veteran parents out there I need some advice!



My little boy is nearing 3 1/2...and for about a month now...he has turned into a TOTAL brat!  He used to be so sweet, and yes, he had his moments where he would act up, etc...but lately I have been finding him being so mean. He won't listen (no matter what we say or do), he yells at us, says mean things, and sometimes even swears!!

I have been getting SO frustrated over all of this...I am not a very patient person, and am trying my hardest to be patient...but I usually end up yelling at him (and I know that isn't right to do)...but I lose my temper so easily. My husband is a lot calmer with him, and he has more patience.

He is being so very stubborn....he won't go on the potty and keeps going in his pants...he won't eat hardly anything now w/o putting up a fuss, he has started throwing things and yelling in a very mean tone...AGGGHHH...some days I feel like I am going nuts.


Is this normal? Have any of your children gone through stages like this?  Any input would be greatly appreciated!


Erin :)


Are you sure he's not James's twin?  This sounds very similar to the type of behaviour we are having at home.

I am trying the time out technique.  James has to sit on the bottom step of our stairs for 3 minutes.  It's important to remind him at the end of his time out why he was put there.

I too have little patience so you have my sympathy on the trying not yell all the time!

karen

Good idea.  Both Nanny 911 and Supernanny have great ideas on dealing with difficult children. 


Educational Reality TV?  Who'da thunk?

I put other.  I don't agree with hitting a kid unless they did something that risked their life like crossing the street without looking or something else.  But a lot of parents spank their kids in anger and IMHO that abusive. 
My father worked for child protective services and he used to come home telling about some of the experiences he had and some of the parents just were too strict.  But I also think time out doesn't work because the parents don't use it like they should. 
My parents never believed in spanking, but once in a while my Mom would smack my hand if I did something, but that was a rarity. 

Time-outs are for athletes.  Kids should be smacked when they're bad and hugged when they're not.  Seriously, assuming an otherwise warm, stable, loving household, I can't believe that simply smacking a child on the bottom when s/he misbehaves is going to traumatize the child or cause them to grow up to be violent, insecure, fearful, neurotic, perfectionistic, untrusting, or otherwise dysfunctional.  I think faces and hands are far too delicate, and smacking a child there is too painful and potentially traumatic.  But their cute well-cushioned bottoms?  Yes.  Never in rage, never to excess, and always with an explanation of why what they did was wrong.  Children will be mischeivous, because curiosity is healthy and natural, and understandably, they'll sometimes take it too far.  And children are sometimes deliberately bad because testing the limits is a natural part of their development as an individual.  But if a child is consistently 'acting out' and the need for discipline is a constant issue, there are probably other issues at play, and it's the parent's job to find out what they are, or to get help figuring out what they are.

Time-outs are for athletes.  Kids should be smacked when they're bad and hugged when they're not.  Seriously, assuming an otherwise warm, stable, loving household, I can't believe that simply smacking a child on the bottom when s/he misbehaves is going to traumatize the child or cause them to grow up to be violent, insecure, fearful, neurotic, perfectionistic, untrusting, or otherwise dysfunctional.  I think faces and hands are far too delicate, and smacking a child there is too painful and potentially traumatic.  But their cute well-cushioned bottoms?  Yes.  Never in rage, never to excess, and always with an explanation of why what they did was wrong.  Children will be mischeivous, because curiosity is healthy and natural, and understandably, they'll sometimes take it too far.  And children are sometimes deliberately bad because testing the limits is a natural part of their development as an individual.  But if a child is consistently 'acting out' and the need for discipline is a constant issue, there are probably other issues at play, and it's the parent's job to find out what they are, or to get help figuring out what they are.

A very well-thought out reply, but I'm still skeptical of corporal punishment for children.  Athletes on the other hand...if guys like Daryl Strawberry and Pete Rose got a big-time azzwuppin' broadcast on Sports Sunday, that might have provided a disincentive to the even more disgusting subsequent behavior in the world of pro sports!
;D

I voted "other" simply because it all depends on the situation and the offence.  Sometimes time out works great.  Sometimes denial of privileges, sometimes more chores.

I saw a CNN report (sort of) about a Brit couple who were in trouble because the husband was addicted to the computer.  She learned dog training techniques and was coached in using them on the blok.  It worked.  Mostly positive reinforcement like treats when he was good.  He spends less time on the computer and is more attentive.  He says it is because she was nicer to him.  It it works on the old man, it should (and does) work on the kids.

Woof woof

I saw a CNN report (sort of) about a Brit couple who were in trouble because the husband was addicted to the computer.  She learned dog training techniques and was coached in using them on the blok.  It worked.  Mostly positive reinforcement like treats when he was good.  He spends less time on the computer and is more attentive.  He says it is because she was nicer to him.



A few whacks on the fanny might have worked faster.  ::)

A few whacks on the fanny might have worked faster.  ::)


Kinky!!!  On who's fanny, his or hers?

Kinky!!!  On who's fanny, his or hers?


They'd have to take turns.  Only fair. 
Unless they were playing the S/M game:
Masochist: "Hit me!"
Sadist: "No!"

They'd have to take turns.  Only fair. 
Unless they were playing the S/M game:
Masochist: "Hit me!"
Sadist: "No!"


Kinkier and kinkier.  Do I detect a trend here?  ;D

But none of this responds to "naughty" (whatever that means) kids.  Discipline them with love, consistance, and love, the  3 ingrediants in raising healthy, happy, and well behaved kids.

Pete Rose....


I still can't believe he didn't get into the hall of fame as good as he was, just because he bet on baseball.  I think he'll get in once he dies.

Time-outs are for athletes.  Kids should be smacked when they're bad and hugged when they're not.  Seriously, assuming an otherwise warm, stable, loving household, I can't believe that simply smacking a child on the bottom when s/he misbehaves is going to traumatize the child or cause them to grow up to be violent, insecure, fearful, neurotic, perfectionistic, untrusting, or otherwise dysfunctional.  I think faces and hands are far too delicate, and smacking a child there is too painful and potentially traumatic.  But their cute well-cushioned bottoms?  Yes.  Never in rage, never to excess, and always with an explanation of why what they did was wrong.  Children will be mischeivous, because curiosity is healthy and natural, and understandably, they'll sometimes take it too far.  And children are sometimes deliberately bad because testing the limits is a natural part of their development as an individual.  But if a child is consistently 'acting out' and the need for discipline is a constant issue, there are probably other issues at play, and it's the parent's job to find out what they are, or to get help figuring out what they are.


Best. Answer. Ever.

Time-outs are for athletes.  Kids should be smacked when they're bad and hugged when they're not.  Seriously, assuming an otherwise warm, stable, loving household, I can't believe that simply smacking a child on the bottom when s/he misbehaves is going to traumatize the child or cause them to grow up to be violent, insecure, fearful, neurotic, perfectionistic, untrusting, or otherwise dysfunctional.  I think faces and hands are far too delicate, and smacking a child there is too painful and potentially traumatic.  But their cute well-cushioned bottoms?  Yes.  Never in rage, never to excess, and always with an explanation of why what they did was wrong.  Children will be mischeivous, because curiosity is healthy and natural, and understandably, they'll sometimes take it too far.  And children are sometimes deliberately bad because testing the limits is a natural part of their development as an individual.  But if a child is consistently 'acting out' and the need for discipline is a constant issue, there are probably other issues at play, and it's the parent's job to find out what they are, or to get help figuring out what they are.


I follow your reasoning, and agree that if a parent establishes this kind of regimin that's fine, given all of your caviotes.  It was not a style my wife and I felt comfortable with, but, I say again, this is a very personnal sort of issue.  My point is that as long as the kids know why they are being disciplined, are not hurt in the process, know that their parents love them, and are treated consistantly, in the long run they will come to appreciate the limits placed on them and understand the reasons for their punishment. 

It's interesting.....we are taking a parenting class currently and we learned that whenever you discipline/punish a child, instead of taking something away from him/her (ie....no TV for a week, no playstation, no going over a friends house, etc)....it is better to incorporate a punishment that involves them doing something. For example, the speaker that we were watching a video of gave this illustration......his son had a chore of taking the trash out every week. He had to make sure that it was out either Tuesday night or at the latest Wednesday morning, by 7 am.  If his son forgot to do so, instead of yelling at him, smacking him, taking a privilege away from him, etc....he made it known ahead of time that the punishment would be that he had to scrub out the garbage cans with a long scrub brush.  Anyway, the son forgot a few times, and proceeded to his "punishment".....and after that he grew to understand what he had to do and he did it.  By establishing a punishment of this nature, it allowed his son to become responsible for his actions and allowed him to learn while he became mature in remembering what he was supposed to do.  He said that it is best to find a punishment that goes along with the "crime" or so to speak...and that task oriented punishments were always a good thing. I thought this was very interesting, as a lot of parents reach to taking away things from a child, rather than having them DO something that would allow them to build that responsibility that they need in their lives in order to become productive members of society.



Erin :)

I still can't believe he didn't get into the hall of fame as good as he was, just because he bet on baseball.  I think he'll get in once he dies.
Isn't it ironic that then-baseball commissioner Bart Giamatti banned Pete Rose...and died of a massive heart attack soon afterwards?

I don't see the irony... God was punishing him for not letting Rose into the HOF?  Still don't see the irony... becuase Rose played with a lot of heart?  ???

I don't see the irony... God was punishing him for not letting Rose into the HOF?  Still don't see the irony... becuase Rose played with a lot of heart?  ???
It's a weird coincidence that I pointed out....I don't think if I was in Giamatti's shoes, I'd let Pete Rose in the Hall of Fame,either.

It's interesting.....we are taking a parenting class currently and we learned that whenever you discipline/punish a child, instead of taking something away from him/her (ie....no TV for a week, no playstation, no going over a friends house, etc)....it is better to incorporate a punishment that involves them doing something. For example, the speaker that we were watching a video of gave this illustration......his son had a chore of taking the trash out every week. He had to make sure that it was out either Tuesday night or at the latest Wednesday morning, by 7 am.  If his son forgot to do so, instead of yelling at him, smacking him, taking a privilege away from him, etc....he made it known ahead of time that the punishment would be that he had to scrub out the garbage cans with a long scrub brush.  Anyway, the son forgot a few times, and proceeded to his "punishment".....and after that he grew to understand what he had to do and he did it.  By establishing a punishment of this nature, it allowed his son to become responsible for his actions and allowed him to learn while he became mature in remembering what he was supposed to do.  He said that it is best to find a punishment that goes along with the "crime" or so to speak...and that task oriented punishments were always a good thing. I thought this was very interesting, as a lot of parents reach to taking away things from a child, rather than having them DO something that would allow them to build that responsibility that they need in their lives in order to become productive members of society.



Erin :)


Good advice!  There are so many ways to administer discipline that make sense.  The key, though, I say again, is that the kid knows you love him/her.

And can someone tell me what Pete Rose and the HoF has to do with this thread?

Good advice!  There are so many ways to administer discipline that make sense.  The key, though, I say again, is that the kid knows you love him/her.

And can someone tell me what Pete Rose and the HoF has to do with this thread?

Somewhere along the line "how to discipline children" became "how to discipline ball players."  And with the Minnesota Vikings in the news again, it might warrant its own thread!
::)

Someone should start a thread about how to discipline our elected officials!

A friend told his sons to load and turn on the washing machine.  They didn't do it so when he and his
wife came home (they had gone out on a "date" ) he got the boys out of bed and made them hand
wash and dry the dishes.  They call it positive reinforcment, and worked perfectly.

A friend told his sons to load and turn on the washing machine.  They didn't do it so when he and his
wife came home (they had gone out on a "date" ) he got the boys out of bed and made them hand
wash and dry the dishes.  They call it positive reinforcment, and worked perfectly.

Sounds like my parents.  One evening I didn't haul in a load of firewood, so my dad booted me out of bed at 11:30 and made me go get it...and it was the middle of January...and it was 2 degrees Fahrenheit and blowing.  Boy, that really steamed my clams, but I didn't forget to go get the wood again!
;D