I got this e-mail today:


IT HAS BEEN CALCULATED THAT IF EVERYONE IN THE UNITED STATES AND CANADA
>>>DID NOT PURCHASE A DROP OF GASOLINE FOR ONE DAY AND ALL AT THE SAME
>>>TIME, THE OIL COMPANIES WOULD CHOKE ON THEIR STOCKPILES.
>>>
>>>AT THE SAME TIME IT WOULD HIT THE ENTIRE INDUSTRY WITH A NET LOSS OF
>>>OVER 4.6 BILLION DOLLARS WHICH AFFECTS THE BOTTOM LINES OF THE OIL
>>>COMPANIES.
>>>
>>>THEREFORE SEPTEMBER 1st HAS BEEN FORMALLY DECLARED "STICK IT UP THEIR
>>>BEHIND " DAY AND THE PEOPLE OF THESE TWO NATIONS SHOULD NOT BUY A SINGLE
>>>DROP OF GASOLINE THAT DAY.
>>>
>>>THE ONLY WAY THIS CAN BE DONE IS IF YOU FORWARD THIS E-MAIL TO AS MANY
>>>PEOPLE AS YOU CAN AND AS QUICKLY AS YOU CAN TO GET THE WORD OUT.
>>>
>>>WAITING ON THE GOVERNMENT TO STEP IN AND CONTROL THE PRICES IS NOT GOING
>>>TO HAPPEN. WHAT HAPPENED TO THE REDUCTION AND CONTROL IN PRICES THAT
>>>THE ARAB NATIONS PROMISED TWO WEEKS AGO?
>>>
>>>REMEMBER ONE THING, NOT ONLY IS THE PRICE OF GASOLINE GOING UP BUT AT
>>>THE SAME TIME AIRLINES ARE FORCED TO RAISE THEIR PRICES, TRUCKING COMPANIES
>>>ARE FORCED TO RAISE THEIR PRICES WHICH EFFECTS PRICES ON EVERYTHING THAT
>>>IS SHIPPED. THINGS LIKE FOOD, CLOTHING, BUILDING MATERIALS, MEDICAL
>>>SUPPLIES ETC. WHO PAYS IN THE END? WE DO!
>>>
>>>WE CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE. IF THEY DON'T GET THE MESSAGE AFTER ONE DAY,
>>>WE WILL DO IT AGAIN AND AGAIN.
>>>
>>>SO DO YOUR PART AND SPREAD THE WORD. FORWARD THIS EMAIL TO EVERYONE YOU
>>>KNOW. MARK YOUR CALENDARS AND MAKE SEPTEMBER 1ST A DAY THAT THE
>>>CITIZENS OF THE UNITED STATES AND CANADA SAY "ENOUGH IS ENOUGH"
--



So, don't buy gas on Sep. 1st. Please pass the message on.




Cat

How about this instead:

Pull all of your money out of 401k, and sell all of your stocks, bonds, and commodities.

After all, the hikes are comming from there, not the gas and oil companies.

Yesterday, "Oil Futures" traded up $3 a barrel.  This has nothing to do with oil companies, but speculators making the price rise for profit.  Lash out at them, not the oil companies.

I got this e-mail today:


IT HAS BEEN CALCULATED THAT IF EVERYONE IN THE UNITED STATES AND CANADA
>>>DID NOT PURCHASE A DROP OF GASOLINE FOR ONE DAY AND ALL AT THE SAME
>>>TIME, THE OIL COMPANIES WOULD CHOKE ON THEIR STOCKPILES.
>>>
>>>AT THE SAME TIME IT WOULD HIT THE ENTIRE INDUSTRY WITH A NET LOSS OF
>>>OVER 4.6 BILLION DOLLARS WHICH AFFECTS THE BOTTOM LINES OF THE OIL
>>>COMPANIES.
>>>
>>>THEREFORE SEPTEMBER 1st HAS BEEN FORMALLY DECLARED "STICK IT UP THEIR
>>>BEHIND " DAY AND THE PEOPLE OF THESE TWO NATIONS SHOULD NOT BUY A SINGLE
>>>DROP OF GASOLINE THAT DAY.
>>>
>>>THE ONLY WAY THIS CAN BE DONE IS IF YOU FORWARD THIS E-MAIL TO AS MANY
>>>PEOPLE AS YOU CAN AND AS QUICKLY AS YOU CAN TO GET THE WORD OUT.
>>>
>>>WAITING ON THE GOVERNMENT TO STEP IN AND CONTROL THE PRICES IS NOT GOING
>>>TO HAPPEN. WHAT HAPPENED TO THE REDUCTION AND CONTROL IN PRICES THAT
>>>THE ARAB NATIONS PROMISED TWO WEEKS AGO?
>>>
>>>REMEMBER ONE THING, NOT ONLY IS THE PRICE OF GASOLINE GOING UP BUT AT
>>>THE SAME TIME AIRLINES ARE FORCED TO RAISE THEIR PRICES, TRUCKING COMPANIES
>>>ARE FORCED TO RAISE THEIR PRICES WHICH EFFECTS PRICES ON EVERYTHING THAT
>>>IS SHIPPED. THINGS LIKE FOOD, CLOTHING, BUILDING MATERIALS, MEDICAL
>>>SUPPLIES ETC. WHO PAYS IN THE END? WE DO!
>>>
>>>WE CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE. IF THEY DON'T GET THE MESSAGE AFTER ONE DAY,
>>>WE WILL DO IT AGAIN AND AGAIN.
>>>
>>>SO DO YOUR PART AND SPREAD THE WORD. FORWARD THIS EMAIL TO EVERYONE YOU
>>>KNOW. MARK YOUR CALENDARS AND MAKE SEPTEMBER 1ST A DAY THAT THE
>>>CITIZENS OF THE UNITED STATES AND CANADA SAY "ENOUGH IS ENOUGH"
--



So, don't buy gas on Sep. 1st. Please pass the message on.




Cat


I have been fooled by this before....it wont accomplish anything:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/gasoline/nogas.asp

Better make sure you stock up on gas the day before then ;)

I have been fooled by this before....it wont accomplish anything:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/gasoline/nogas.asp


Funny stuff. It goes all the way back to 1999...thanks for the info, Billy.

I don't think this would do any good unless people actually WENT WITHOUT that tank of gas... but we all know that most would simply fill up the night before, or the morning after, and it wouldn't make much of a difference.

I wish that the rest of the country would catch on to New York City's philosophy on driving.  The majority of New York City's workforce gets to work via bus, subway, ferry, or on foot.  Many people I knew made good friends during their commutes to work, because they were riding with the same crowd every day.  People would sleep, eat, chat or read the paper on the way to work instead of having to watch the road.

It's not uncommon in NY to see businessmen in their suits and ties walking home from bus stops.  When you get on a bus, you see families with shopping bags coming home from the mall, teachers on their way home from school...  many people of all social classes do not drive at all, nor do they care to.

Here in San Jose, it would be degrading to most adults to be seen getting on a bus.  Sadly, bus riders are kind of stereotyped as "trailer trash" "low class". :(

I wish that the rest of the country would catch on to New York City's philosophy on driving.  The majority of New York City's workforce gets to work via bus, subway, ferry, or on foot.  Many people I knew made good friends during their commutes to work, because they were riding with the same crowd every day.  People would sleep, eat, chat or read the paper on the way to work instead of having to watch the road.

It's not uncommon in NY to see businessmen in their suits and ties walking home from bus stops.   When you get on a bus, you see families with shopping bags coming home from the mall, teachers on their way home from school...  many people of all social classes do not drive at all, nor do they care to.

Here in San Jose, it would be degrading to most adults to be seen getting on a bus.  Sadly, bus riders are kind of stereotyped as "trailer trash" "low class". :(


That quite often is a result of the lack of good public transit.  And quite often, public transit suffers from NIMBY.

California is a perfect example of this.  I lived in Vallejo from 1990-1993.  During that time, there were many attempts to bring BART up to our area.  But every time a proposal was made, people in Concord, or Walnut Grove, or Benicia, or Vallejo would complain that they did not want the trains running through their neighborhood.  Every time, the project was scrapped, which made everybody drive.

We had the same problem with the LA subway system.  When the "Red Line" was proposed, it was to stretch all the way across the San Fernando Valley.  But when it came time to actually do it, people started to complain.  Never mind that their houses were built next to train tracks, they did not want them running through their neighborhoods.  So the Red Line ends in North Hollywood.  There is not enough parking at the last terminal.  There is poor freeway access, and heavy congestion.  Then people complain that the LA subway system is loosing money.  Well, no wonder when people do not let it go where it needs to go in order to be effective.

(In case somebody has not heard of NIMBY, it is short for Not In My Back Yard.  That is when people admit they need something (water plant, sewage plant, power plant, subways, airports, prisons, fire stations, hospitals), but want them somewhere else, not near them.)

Gasoline will never be as cheap as it was in the 20th century.  We need more mass transit and more civil infrastructure that will allow people to walk and ride bicycles to and fro.  But we're willing slaves to the oil barons, so that's our tough luck!

I live in the boondocks so public transportation is NOT an option ::)



same here. We have a few busses that go here and there...but it's not an option early in the morning when my husband goes to work, etc.




Erin :)

I'm sick of this. I'm sick of hearing people complain about gas prices. WE HAVE IT EASY, PEOPLE. Europe has MUCH higher gas prices and they get by. We need more public transportation in this country. If you live in an area without, move. If gas prices are REALLY that debilitating to you, then you should be willing to move to an area that has adequate public transportation. Otherwise, please stop complaining. Considering all of the other concerns in this world, its sickening. If worrying about what you are paying at the pump is your worst problem, newsflash: You have it pretty good. I'm young and have very little money, but I manage to pay for gas.

I'm sick of this. I'm sick of hearing people complain about gas prices. WE HAVE IT EASY, PEOPLE. Europe has MUCH higher gas prices and they get by. We need more public transportation in this country. If you live in an area without, move. If gas prices are REALLY that debilitating to you, then you should be willing to move to an area that has adequate public transportation. Otherwise, please stop complaining. Considering all of the other concerns in this world, its sickening. If worrying about what you are paying at the pump is your worst problem, newsflash: You have it pretty good. I'm young and have very little money, but I manage to pay for gas.


Put yourself in someone elses shoes.  I will use myself as an example.  I am a single mom barely getting by paycheck to paycheck.  Public transportation wouldn't work for me because of babysitting time constraints.  My sitter is relatively inexpensive...going to a service that is 24 hour would double that bill.  I can't afford to move closer to work, because of rent costs.  Plus, I am buying a trailer and there aren't may parks around there.  I work in an affluent neighborhood.  I live on $100 every two weeks for gas, groceries and other necessaries.  Gas going up 30 cents a gallon in 36 hours makes a big dent in the food budget.  No one said we weren't better off than other countries and I am sure that they realize that, I know I do. 

You are young and barely out in the world...why don't you spend some time in the real world supporting a family before you start slamming those of us who are complaining about gas prices. 

Yeah but you still are getting by, you have a roof over your head, you are putting food on your table. Think about all the poor people in New Orleans or the people affected by last year's tsunami. To be frank, you wouldn't be in that position if it wasn't for some bad decision-making.

I'm sick of this. I'm sick of hearing people complain about gas prices. WE HAVE IT EASY, PEOPLE. Europe has MUCH higher gas prices and they get by. We need more public transportation in this country. If you live in an area without, move. If gas prices are REALLY that debilitating to you, then you should be willing to move to an area that has adequate public transportation. Otherwise, please stop complaining. Considering all of the other concerns in this world, its sickening. If worrying about what you are paying at the pump is your worst problem, newsflash: You have it pretty good. I'm young and have very little money, but I manage to pay for gas.


Wow, that's very republican of you, Alex ;D :)


Heh.  Anyways I see Alex's point.  And also should add that the whole concept of business revolves around pricing things (not just gas, but anything) at the top price people are willing to pay.  Even at auctions it works that way.  The effects of it start with the producers and trickle down to the retailers.  I'm not saying I like it, but I think the only way to get the prices down is to lessen the demand... which means finding alternate methods of fuel... or transportation.

Put yourself in someone elses shoes.  I will use myself as an example.  I am a single mom barely getting by paycheck to paycheck.  Public transportation wouldn't work for me because of babysitting time constraints.  My sitter is relatively inexpensive...going to a service that is 24 hour would double that bill.  I can't afford to move closer to work, because of rent costs.  Plus, I am buying a trailer and there aren't may parks around there.  I work in an affluent neighborhood.  I live on $100 every two weeks for gas, groceries and other necessaries.  Gas going up 30 cents a gallon in 36 hours makes a big dent in the food budget.  No one said we weren't better off than other countries and I am sure that they realize that, I know I do. 

You are young and barely out in the world...why don't you spend some time in the real world supporting a family before you start slamming those of us who are complaining about gas prices. 


I'm with you Dagwood.  These guys haven't a clue as to what it takes for people to just survive, and if you work hard and do everything right, they still turn up there noses because they figure it is your fault for not trying hard enough.  I just had to fill my heating oil tank and paid $2.50 a gallon, up from $1.49 last year.  I am very lucky that I have a very, very small house and there is just me and my son.  The price of  home heating fuels(gas and oil) will be crippling this year.  It is not about filling up the car and cruising to the mall, it is about surviving.

I see both side's points.....our problems compared to the people in New Orlean's problems seems almost trivial, HOWEVER, I know what it is like, living paycheck to paycheck on just my husband's income. We have one child and a LOT of bills. The fact that the gas prices are sky-rocketing in what seems like hours at a time, makes me really nervous for my family's well-being.  I mean, when EVERYTHING around you is going up in price, EXCEPT of course wages, it's very frightening, especially whenever you have a child to raise.  If it was just the gas prices going up and nothing else, I don't think people would be as worried, however, you know that if the gas prices keep going up....everything else will go up as well....it's a complete domino effect.  Everyone, who is indirectly connected with the high prices of gas, will start raising their prices. The post office will raise their prices because of their many deliveries, schools will raise their taxes because of busses that have to run constantly (I already heard a rumor of our school district contemplating this), etc....I mean, it just doesn't stop at only the high gas prices. I am not looking forward to this winter and the cost of the heating bills....last year we had to buy oil (which nearly did us in), and this year, in our new house...we have gas heat...so it's not gonna be fun.
I feel that people who have NEVER had to provide for a family, raise a child, have major expenses, etc...should not just "tisk tisk" people who are genuinely upset over the rise in costs....because they KNOW what it is like to struggle, trying to make ends meet, raising a family, etc.  It was very different when I was just a "fresh out of high school" 18 year old....who had basically little to no responsibilities compared to my life now.  At that time, I would never have understood the difficulty sometimes in living day by day in this world....so basically what I am saying is this....unless you have lived it, don't judge others for having opinions/concerns regarding the matter.


Erin :)

Yeah but you still are getting by, you have a roof over your head, you are putting food on your table. Think about all the poor people in New Orleans or the people affected by last year's tsunami. To be frank, you wouldn't be in that position if it wasn't for some bad decision-making.


Excuse me?  And just how did you come to this conclusion?  Were you there for the decision making process that has me in the position I am in?  How do you know?  I could be a widow raising a child by myself...would that be poor decision making?  I had to take a cut in pay this year in order to keep my job and the job market around here isn't the best so it wasn't easy to find another job that paid me enough to live on...is that poor decision making?  I think you need to take a step back and think before you respond with crap like that.  It is very arrogant of you to assume you know my circumstances.  And, I never once said I wasn't better off than the people in NO.  In fact, I wish I were closer so I could take someone in.  


I'm with you Dagwood. These guys haven't a clue as to what it takes for people to just survive, and if you work hard and do everything right, they still turn up there noses because they figure it is your fault for not trying hard enough. I just had to fill my heating oil tank and paid $2.50 a gallon, up from $1.49 last year. I am very lucky that I have a very, very small house and there is just me and my son. The price of home heating fuels(gas and oil) will be crippling this year. It is not about filling up the car and cruising to the mall, it is about surviving.


I don't have a heating oil tank, but the natural gas prices are through the roof already.  It is just me and my daughter in a small house, too.  Thankfully.  

Well said, Erin. :)

I'm sick of this. I'm sick of hearing people complain about gas prices. WE HAVE IT EASY, PEOPLE. Europe has MUCH higher gas prices and they get by. We need more public transportation in this country. If you live in an area without, move. If gas prices are REALLY that debilitating to you, then you should be willing to move to an area that has adequate public transportation. Otherwise, please stop complaining. Considering all of the other concerns in this world, its sickening. If worrying about what you are paying at the pump is your worst problem, newsflash: You have it pretty good. I'm young and have very little money, but I manage to pay for gas.



Here's the thing though Alex...it's not realistic for people just to "pick up and move" anytime they happen to disagree with something or happen to be in an area where things are not convenient for them.  People have jobs, families, and other obligations that keep them where they are...and for you to make that kind of nonchalant statement just shows your ignorance regarding the circumstances of most people's situations.  I mean, for me to say...hmmm, well, since there is very little public transportation here in the town that I happen to live in...I guess I will up and move to let's say, Pittsburgh (the closet large city to me) because it's easier to catch a bus or taxi there.....would be just a crazy notion on my part.  In my particular situation.....we just moved to this town recently, we only have one vehicle, my husband happens to work only about 10-15 minutes from where we live....and for me to think that being able to jump up and move on a whim, would be anything BUT realistic....that would be just plain nonsense!  What I am saying is, you have to be able to step out of your scenario and put yourself in other people's shoes to see how nearly impossible that would be.  Perhaps if everybody was a care-free, teenager...just starting their independent lives, it would be more feasible....but live a little, and then you will know that it is hardly an option.


Erin :)

After reading my last post, I realized it may have sounded a bit arrogant, which was not my intention.  I should clarify that I UNDERSTAND why people are complaining... I struggle with the gas prices too...  the point i was trying to make was that complaining isn't going to fix the problem.  As long as people continue to pay for gas, the oil companies are not going to drop the price and lose income because people are complaining.  I think the only way to get the prices down is to lessen the demand..  because that's the way business works..supply and demand. :(

>:( comments like this are wrong and VERY insulting!

To be frank, you wouldn't be in that position if it wasn't for some bad decision-making.


Bad decision making!?!?! What are you NUTS! Let me tell you a little something about the REAL world Young Grasshopper...
You see, once you grow up and move out of your parents house and then get married and then have a child, then two and maybe even three or four, things get a little more complicated than just picking up and moving closer to something because its more convenient for you or changing jobs to somewhere closer because the price of gas just went up. It has more to do with doing what is BEST for your family and your CHILDREN and doing what you HAVE to do to make ends meet and see that your kids get a good education so they have a better chance in life when they grow up. I have a wife and 3 kids (ages 12, 6 and 8 months). I drive 100 miles a day, 6 days a week round trip for work. ZERO public transportation and no real job market for a single income family in the small town I live in. Does that mean that I too, have a decision making problem? What should I do oh great wise one? Should I take a job at Wal-Mart at a 60% paycut because it would be cheaper on gas? Should I pack up my kids and family and move into the rundown hooligan arse apartments across the street from my work so I can walk there? OR should I keep plugging along and doing the best I can to keep the incoming and outgoing as close to the same as possable, all the while using my free speech rights to make the occasional comment about how much the price of gas has gone up and it is breaking me!?!

>:( comments like this are wrong and VERY insulting!
Bad decision making!?!?! What are you NUTS! Let me tell you a little something about the REAL world Young Grasshopper...
You see, once you grow up and move out of your parents house and then get married and then have a child, then two and maybe even three or four, things get a little more complicated than just picking up and moving closer to something because its more convenient for you or changing jobs to somewhere closer because the price of gas just went up. It has more to do with doing what is BEST for your family and your CHILDREN and doing what you HAVE to do to make ends meet and see that your kids get a good education so they have a better chance in life when they grow up. I have a wife and 3 kids (ages 12, 6 and 8 months). I drive 100 miles a day, 6 days a week round trip for work. ZERO public transportation and no real job market for a single income family in the small town I live in. Does that mean that I too, have a decision making problem? What should I do oh great wise one? Should I take a job at Wal-Mart at a 60% paycut because it would be cheaper on gas? Should I pack up my kids and family and move into the rundown hooligan arse apartments across the street from my work so I can walk there? OR should I keep plugging along and doing the best I can to keep the incoming and outgoing as close to the same as possable, all the while using my free speech rights to make the occasional comment about how much the price of gas has gone up and it is breaking me!?!



very well said, I couldn't agree more...BTW, nice to see you JoeDeertae!



Erin :)

>:( comments like this are wrong and VERY insulting!
Bad decision making!?!?! What are you NUTS! Let me tell you a little something about the REAL world Young Grasshopper...
You see, once you grow up and move out of your parents house and then get married and then have a child, then two and maybe even three or four, things get a little more complicated than just picking up and moving closer to something because its more convenient for you or changing jobs to somewhere closer because the price of gas just went up. It has more to do with doing what is BEST for your family and your CHILDREN and doing what you HAVE to do to make ends meet and see that your kids get a good education so they have a better chance in life when they grow up. I have a wife and 3 kids (ages 12, 6 and 8 months). I drive 100 miles a day, 6 days a week round trip for work. ZERO public transportation and no real job market for a single income family in the small town I live in. Does that mean that I too, have a decision making problem? What should I do oh great wise one? Should I take a job at Wal-Mart at a 60% paycut because it would be cheaper on gas? Should I pack up my kids and family and move into the rundown hooligan arse apartments across the street from my work so I can walk there? OR should I keep plugging along and doing the best I can to keep the incoming and outgoing as close to the same as possable, all the while using my free speech rights to make the occasional comment about how much the price of gas has gone up and it is breaking me!?!


Beautifully put, Joe. :)

Well perhaps you shouldn't have had so many children. What do they tell you in high school? Work hard, make good grades, go to college. Did you do that? if so, why not? Thats the type of decision making I am referring to.

I like the way Carlos Mencia put it, (talking about going to college) "pssh, i dont need to do that! oh really? well guess what pendejo..ding! fries ready!". ;)

Well perhaps you shouldn't have had so many children. What do they tell you in high school? Work hard, make good grades, go to college. Did you do that? if so, why not? Thats the type of decision making I am referring to.

I like the way Carlos Mencia put it, (talking about going to college) "pssh, i dont need to do that! oh really? well guess what pendejo..ding! fries ready!". ;)


Are you sure you wanna go there, Alex? :-\\

What do you mean, Andrea? It seems like a valid subject.

Well perhaps you shouldn't have had so many children. What do they tell you in high school? Work hard, make good grades, go to college. Did you do that? if so, why not? Thats the type of decision making I am referring to.

I like the way Carlos Mencia put it, (talking about going to college) "pssh, i dont need to do that! oh really? well guess what pendejo..ding! fries ready!". ;)


I have one child, and it is none of your business how many I have.  Also, having children is never a poor decision.  Do you really want to know why I did not go to college?  I didn't go to college because my mother and step father split up and I was forced out on my own to support my own butt.  I was the your age and had to support myself.  No help from mom and dad.  That kind of leaves out college.  It is possible to find a decent job without a college education, although you have to start at the bottom.  Don't knock fast food jobs.  Those people can advance to managerial positions in the company if they stick it out.  That is what I did...I can't help it that the company got sold and I had to take a cut in pay.  I think you need to grow up before you slam other people's lifestyles and decisions.    Live in the real world for a while, supporting yourself 100% then come back and tell me how bad my decisions in life are.  You also need to keep your arrogance in check before it gets you into some serious trouble.

Well perhaps you shouldn't have had so many children. What do they tell you in high school? Work hard, make good grades, go to college. Did you do that? if so, why not? Thats the type of decision making I am referring to.

I like the way Carlos Mencia put it, (talking about going to college) "pssh, i dont need to do that! oh really? well guess what pendejo..ding! fries ready!". ;)




wow, that was totally unnecessary....I guess one anal reaming wasn't enough...be prepared to get a few more. ;)




Erin

Well perhaps you shouldn't have had so many children. What do they tell you in high school? Work hard, make good grades, go to college. Did you do that? if so, why not? Thats the type of decision making I am referring to.

I like the way Carlos Mencia put it, (talking about going to college) "pssh, i dont need to do that! oh really? well guess what pendejo..ding! fries ready!". ;)


You really are naive.

As many of you may know, and this is not to offend anyone who doesn't have as good an edumacation as I, I went to UC Berkeley and Duke University.  I did what you stated...worked hard, excellent grades (fifth in my class, I probably could have done better but I didn't give a crap) and went to two of the finest colleges in the nation.  And now I can admit that I am dirt poor and struggling through circumstances beyond my control.

I was forced out of my home with nothing when my wife told me she was pregnant and my parents freaked out.  It took me almost a month to be able to get my essential belongings back from the parents.  When you are penniless and have a child on the way, you do not try to stick it out for a job that fits your qualifications, because the choices are either: let the kid starve while you continue to value your stubborn pride, or get any job you can, swallow your pride and make sure that the baby is healthy.  I chose option B, and I do not think it is a bad decision.  Through a series of decisions (not necessarily the best, but serviceable given our financial situation), I have been able to pay off debts in a timely manner, work up a bit of surplus money every month, save for my son's college education (where hopefully he gets a better chance since I'm not a psycho parent  ::) ) and set myself up for a return to graduate school to get my degree. 

I don't know, maybe you hate kids or something, but I love my son very much and I would much rather see him thrive than starve because I "decided" to sit on my butt and wait for a good job to come by.  I'm hoping the graduate admissions committee sees that too and isn't as cold-hearted as you.  In fact, considering your responses to this topic, I think it would be a good idea for you to never ever have children, because you'd only be doing them a disservice.

Speaking of gas, I bought some Preparation H after scouring the town looking for the best prices.  Ouch ouch ouch.

Wow, that's very republican of you, Alex ;D


Not particularly. Just common sense.

The perfect example is England. People have far less disposable income due to higher real estate prices, higher interest rates, higher taxes and higher goods costs, then to top it all off they pay round about 3 times as much, if not more than we do AND STILL GET BY!

Oh, and public transport there.. IS AWFUL!

Not particularly. Just common sense.



I was referring to his lack of defending the right to free speech... not used to seeing that from Alex ;)

I was referring to his lack of defending the right to free speech... not used to seeing that from Alex ;)


Ah ok.. yes.. Alex Get that red tie off

What do you mean, Andrea? It seems like a valid subject.




Hate to beat a dead horse, Alex---But do I need to summon the Shippensburg folk?  ;)



Beth

Hate to beat a dead horse, Alex---But do I need to summon the Shippensburg folk?  ;)


*folds newspaper* somebody call?

Well perhaps you shouldn't have had so many children. What do they tell you in high school? Work hard, make good grades, go to college. Did you do that? if so, why not? Thats the type of decision making I am referring to.

I like the way Carlos Mencia put it, (talking about going to college) "pssh, i dont need to do that! oh really? well guess what pendejo..ding! fries ready!". ;)
I'm not exactly the most switched on when it comes to subjects such as this, but even I know that this comment is rather insulting.  >:(

C'mon Alex, you should know better than that!  ::)

C'mon Alex, you should know better than that!  ::)




Actually, I was kinda expecting a "stick up the ass" comment from him. *shrugs*



Beth

Well perhaps you shouldn't have had so many children. What do they tell you in high school? Work hard, make good grades, go to college. Did you do that? if so, why not? Thats the type of decision making I am referring to.

I like the way Carlos Mencia put it, (talking about going to college) "pssh, i dont need to do that! oh really? well guess what pendejo..ding! fries ready!". ;)


Ya know.

Believe it or not, there is this thing called Sex.. now, i think you've made passing references to it before.

Do ya know where Baby's come from chief?

Sometimes, there ain't really much choice.

My Mum wanted 4, she got one. Her friend Joe wanted one.. she got 3.  ::)

Believe it or not, there is this thing called Sex


Oooh, ooh, what's that?

Actually, I was kinda expecting a "stick up the ass" comment from him. *shrugs*



Beth
I'm just being polite.  ::) ;D

Should I delete the post by Alex and the followups? Or would people rather discuss it (even though I consider the original post to be a veiled attack on another board member, which is a violation of the foum guidelines and especially this board).

Should I delete the post by Alex and the followups? Or would people rather discuss it (even though I consider the original post to be a veiled attack on another board member, which is a violation of the foum guidelines and especially this board).


I say keep it. Everyone needs to see just what kind of man Alex really is.. and how we're FWNING him.

Should I delete the post by Alex and the followups? Or would people rather discuss it (even though I consider the original post to be a veiled attack on another board member, which is a violation of the foum guidelines and especially this board).


Tough question.  I would like to see his response, but it would be nice to see it gone.  I say leave it and if it gets worse delete it.

Should I delete the post by Alex and the followups? Or would people rather discuss it (even though I consider the original post to be a veiled attack on another board member, which is a violation of the foum guidelines and especially this board).


I'd like to see what else people say.

Should I delete the post by Alex and the followups? Or would people rather discuss it (even though I consider the original post to be a veiled attack on another board member, which is a violation of the foum guidelines and especially this board).


Tough question.  I would like to see his response, but it would be nice to see it gone.  I say leave it and if it gets worse delete it.


I agree with Dagwood.

I think Alex needs to see the responses to his nonsense.




Erin :)

Back on topic:

I think this "DO NOT BUY GAS" will not achieve much. If you want to make the oil companies cringe, then get everyone to stop using anything that involves using gas/oil for a week. EG: your car, posting via standard post, travelling (eg: public transport) etc.

Not buying gas on a certain day will achieve nothing.  ::)

Especially since September 1st is over. ;D

I didn't buy gas that day, I got it the night before just before the prices went up.

Well perhaps you shouldn't have had so many children. What do they tell you in high school? Work hard, make good grades, go to college. Did you do that? if so, why not? Thats the type of decision making I am referring to.


Dude!?! Are you for real? Not sure WHO this was aimed at but either way... WRONG! How does a kid at the age of 18ish years get the idea in his head that he should be preaching to ANYBODY about where they should live, wheather or not they should be compling about gas prices or ESPECIALLY how many children they should have and wheather or not they their decisions were good ones? As I sit here now, taking a short break from reworking our budget so we can work around and thru the gas hike, my oldest son is curled up watching a movie, my baby girl have fallen asleep on her mama (they look sooooo cute)  and my 6 year old son is making me a necklace, bracelets and "ankle necklaces" out of paperclips... wouldn't trade right now for anything in the world.  There is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY this could have been a bad decision! Hey! I know! Heres an idea... why don't you come back to this thread in about 6/8 years and let us all know how you feel about it then? Once you've had a little time out in the real world, on your own, so you can see what its like to have to work to hang on to the things you want or more importantly the things you NEED and then you can see why so many people groan when the price of gas goes up.

Dude!?! Are you for real? Not sure WHO this was aimed at but either way... WRONG! How does a kid at the age of 18ish years get the idea in his head that he should be preaching to ANYBODY about where they should live, wheather or not they should be compling about gas prices or ESPECIALLY how many children they should have and wheather or not they their decisions were good ones? As I sit here now, taking a short break from reworking our budget so we can work around and thru the gas hike, my oldest son is curled up watching a movie, my baby girl have fallen asleep on her mama (they look sooooo cute)  and my 6 year old son is making me a necklace, bracelets and "ankle necklaces" out of paperclips... wouldn't trade right now for anything in the world.  There is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY this could have been a bad decision! Hey! I know! Heres an idea... why don't you come back to this thread in about 6/8 years and let us all know how you feel about it then? Once you've had a little time out in the real world, on your own, so you can see what its like to have to work to hang on to the things you want or more importantly the things you NEED and then you can see why so many people groan when the price of gas goes up.


Hey Joe, first of all nice to see you around again.

Secondly, well put.

I'm a punk kid myself but I've looked after my nieces for years. Since they were little kids I've picked em up from school most days and looked after them almost every afternoon. Took 'em out on the weekends and helped them with any problems they are having.

I recently had to stop doing that, not because of gas prices but because i moved 4000 miles away, and you know what, I miss it so much.

Your right, it's never a bad decision. Did i have to do all those things, of course not, did i enjoy it, most of the time, was it rewarding, your damn right it was.

I don't think anybody can tell you what you what to do with your life. That's why we live the way we do. We make our decisions ourselves.

Alex, your way our of line here.

I think maybe an apology is in order.

I didn't say people don't have the right to complain about gas prices. We have free speech in this country, and its something I believe in whole heartedly. I was just complaining about hearing it all the time. I still feel there are many worse things in this world. Many thousands of Rwandans will die before sundown. Gas prices may be making things a lot harder for many people, but if you compare it to problems people deal with in other countries, its not quite as dire as people think,

And I was only commenting on Dagwood's personal situation because she brought it into the discussion.

This is as far as I am responding. I never meant any of my comments to be inflammatory. I assumed adults could handle the discussion. I found many of your responses to be much more hostile and degrading than anything I've said. I'm sorry if some people took what I said the wrong way, but I don't really see anything inherently wrong with my OPINIONS. Its what you read into it.

I didn't think that I would have to be too concerned about gas prices because I don't have a car right now, but because of the higher prices, the taxis around here have raised their prices and we don't have a transit bus here. >:(

going to town by myself I could walk but when I take the kids we have to call a cab, it's to far for the little one to walk.

I didn't say people don't have the right to complain about gas prices. We have free speech in this country, and its something I believe in whole heartedly. I was just complaining about hearing it all the time. I still feel there are many worse things in this world. Many thousands of Rwandans will die before sundown. Gas prices may be making things a lot harder for many people, but if you compare it to problems people deal with in other countries, its not quite as dire as people think,

And I was only commenting on Dagwood's personal situation because she brought it into the discussion.

This is as far as I am responding. I never meant any of my comments to be inflammatory. I assumed adults could handle the discussion. I found many of your responses to be much more hostile and degrading than anything I've said. I'm sorry if some people took what I said the wrong way, but I don't really see anything inherently wrong with my OPINIONS. Its what you read into it.


It wasn't your opinions that bothered me and others.  It was calling my decision making "poor" ppart that got me.  You don't know my situation 100% and have no right to call my decision making "poor" at any time.  I am not the only one that thinks your posts towards me were out of line.  You  know my opinion and I am not going to go further into this discussion because it makes me angry and I don't like to be angry.


I don't know how to say this without sounding like a snob, but I'm in the fortunate situation to NOT have to really worry about the gas prices going up.



I would never call you a snob, Kim.  You are anything but a snob.   :)

If that really and truely bothered you, then I apologize. However, I want you to understand I really didn't intend to be insulting.

My feelings are feeling very hurt right now. My posts didnt carry the type of open hostility and disdain that has been directed toward me in these responses. You've been adult about it Dagwood, but there are certain others that have dissappointed me very much.

If that really and truely bothered you, then I apologize. However, I want you to understand I really didn't intend to be insulting.



Apology accepted.  Thank you.  Now lets move and leave this whole thing behind us. :)

We're looking into buying a "Hybrid" Honda and a couple of decent sized scooters.

If that really and truly bothered you, then I apologize. However, I want you to understand I really didn't intend to be insulting.

My feelings are feeling very hurt right now. My posts didn't carry the type of open hostility and disdain that has been directed toward me in these responses. You've been adult about it Dagwood, but there are certain others that have dissappointed me very much.




well what did you expect Alex...by the comments that you directed toward certain individuals situations....did you just assume that they would be content with it?  I don't think anyone was out of line...you made your comment, and they merely responded to it...end of story.



Erin :)

Well, Alex sure got raked over the coals for saying something politically incorrect: saying perhaps people shouldn't have so many children.
I can't tell anybody how to run his or her life, but if you were more confident about your OWN decisions to have children, you wouldn't get your heckles raised by a remark to the contrary.

Me, I've got no children, and don't want any.  You can say it's God's commandment for me to make babies all you want, and I still wouldn't give a rip.

Once you have a child, you have the moral obligation to become selfless to that child's needs.  It's not that I can't achieve the obligation, it's that I don't want to.  The selfish people are the people like my sister and her ex-husband who did not have their heads screwed on straight, but insisted on having a baby anyway. 

I think maybe some of you in the family way secretly find your children a big nuisance at times, and the guilt over this makes you touchy and defensive.

And that's all I have to say about that!

Well, Alex sure got raked over the coals for saying something politically incorrect: saying perhaps people shouldn't have so many children.
I can't tell anybody how to run his or her life, but if you were more confident about your OWN decisions to have children, you wouldn't get your heckles raised by a remark to the contrary.

Me, I've got no children, and don't want any.  You can say it's God's commandment for me to make babies all you want, and I still wouldn't give a rip.

Once you have a child, you have the moral obligation to become selfless to that child's needs.  It's not that I can't achieve the obligation, it's that I don't want to.  The selfish people are the people like my sister and her ex-husband who did not have their heads screwed on straight, but insisted on having a baby anyway. 

I think maybe some of you in the family way secretly find your children a big nuisance at times, and the guilt over this makes you touchy and defensive.

And that's all I have to say about that!


are you saying that people who have kids, has them for selfish reasons and that anyone who was offended by Alex's comment feels guilty for thinking that their kids are a nuisance?

because if you are implying that, I was offended by his comment. He has no right to tell others how much children to have.
At least we want children and we are providing for them, I am also a stay at home mom (my choice) sure it gets tough at times (what in life doesn't) but I wouldn't change my life with my kids for anything.

Yeah but you still are getting by, you have a roof over your head, you are putting food on your table. Think about all the poor people in New Orleans or the people affected by last year's tsunami. To be frank, you wouldn't be in that position if it wasn't for some bad decision-making.
I'd like to add my two cents here. What I find most hypocritical about this statement is: You claim to have sympathy for the hurricane/flood victims in New Orleans, yet (and let's be honest here) how many of them were there as a result of "bad decision-making?" Using this logic (which I think is ludicrous), it can then be argued that had many of the New Orleans victims been more "responsible," then maybe there wouldn't have been so many of them to save and it's their own damned fault for being there. 

Max, I think you hit the nail on the head. If I had made that assertion on a board full of Europeans, I think the reaction might have been different. Here in America, it is still VERY taboo to criticize the "family". The attitude in American society is still that there is some sort of inherent value in reproduction. I did not realize how knee-jerk people were on the subject though. Honestly, I was starting to feel a bit like I was in "Inherit the wind". Am I going to be hung from a big ol' tree? ;)

I'd like to add my two cents here. What I find most hypocritical about this statement is: You claim to have sympathy for the hurricane/flood victims in New Orleans, yet (and let's be honest here) how many of them were there as a result of "bad decision-making?" Using this logic (which I think is ludicrous), it can then be argued that had many of the New Orleans victims been more "responsible," then maybe there wouldn't have been so many of them to save and it's their own damned fault for being there.


I'm not going to dignify your slippery-slope argument.

Max, I think you hit the nail on the head. If I had made that assertion on a board full of Europeans, I think the reaction might have been different. Here in America, it is still VERY taboo to criticize the "family". The attitude in American society is still that there is some sort of inherent value in reproduction. I did not realize how knee-jerk people were on the subject though. Honestly, I was starting to feel a bit like I was in "Inherit the wind". Am I going to be hung from a big ol' tree? ;)


Alex, this is where I think you're a little off...  And keep in mind, I don't completely disagree with your concept... but I don't see how it is relevant here.  If someone has children... and at the time that they make the decision to have children (whether it be a conscious decision or a careless mistake) they are unprepared to be a parent... either financially, emotionally, physically, etc.. then I think you have a right to say exactly what you said.  I don't agree with people who are already on public assistance and emotionally unstable deciding to have children, then expecting taxpayers to support their families.

However... do you really think it is reasonable for someone to say.. gee, I'm doing well.. I really want a child... but I better not, because the gas prices might go up in ten years??  C'mon, that's ridiculous!

are you saying that people who have kids, has them for selfish reasons and that anyone who was offended by Alex's comment feels guilty for thinking that their kids are a nuisance?

because if you are implying that, I was offended by his comment. He has no right to tell others how much children to have.
At least we want children and we are providing for them, I am also a stay at home mom (my choice) sure it gets tough at times (what in life doesn't) but I wouldn't change my life with my kids for anything.

Well, his comment was offensive--though I would say "iconoclastic" might e a better word.  He said what you're not supposed to say in a "Christian" nation--though you're Canadian, IIRC.  Here is the prejudice: Nice people luuuuv children and want to have many, selfish people don't like children, and don't want any.
My niece Ava is a comely child with remarkable intelligence, but she rides a rough sea of her parents divorce, poverty, insecurity, and turmoil.  She's six and smart enough to see my sister and brother-in-law's screwiness for what it is.  She'll struggle with rage and cynicism as she gets older.  Same thing happened to me with my parents.  It's not a perfect world.  So many people who have children seem to be the unprepared and incapable.  C'est la vie, that's the way it's always been. 
I admitted to myself I'm not big on kids, and I was felt I was lucky just to achieve any measure of sanity in my own life.  I don't want to be responsible for bringing up other human beings.
Whether you're a working mom or a stay-at-home mom is not germaine.  Alex has every right to tell you how many children you can have.  Fortunately, you have every right to ignore him.  That's what I meant by the insecurity people have about their decisions to have children.  Some dude on an internet discussion board says, "you shouldn't have so many kids," and parents see red.  It's ridiculous.

Well, his comment was offensive--though I would say "iconoclastic" might e a better word. He said what you're not supposed to say in a "Christian" nation--though you're Canadian, IIRC. Here is the prejudice: Nice people luuuuv children and want to have many, selfish people don't like children, and don't want any.
My niece Ava is a comely child with remarkable intelligence, but she rides a rough sea of her parents divorce, poverty, insecurity, and turmoil. She's six and smart enough to see my sister and brother-in-law's screwiness for what it is. She'll struggle with rage and cynicism as she gets older. Same thing happened to me with my parents. It's not a perfect world. So many people who have children seem to be the unprepared and incapable. C'est la vie, that's the way it's always been.
I admitted to myself I'm not big on kids, and I was felt I was lucky just to achieve any measure of sanity in my own life. I don't want to be responsible for bringing up other human beings.
Whether you're a working mom or a stay-at-home mom is not germaine. Alex has every right to tell you how many children you can have. Fortunately, you have every right to ignore him. That's what I meant by the insecurity people have about their decisions to have children. Some dude on an internet discussion board says, "you shouldn't have so many kids," and parents see red. It's ridiculous.


I love you, man. You always try to be as logical as you can about everything. You cut out all of that silly, pretentious crap a lot of people will force over all their viewpoints. Ideas like nationalism, "family values" etc. Keep on truckin'. :)

Max, I think you hit the nail on the head. If I had made that assertion on a board full of Europeans, I think the reaction might have been different. Here in America, it is still VERY taboo to criticize the "family". The attitude in American society is still that there is some sort of inherent value in reproduction. I did not realize how knee-jerk people were on the subject though. Honestly, I was starting to feel a bit like I was in "Inherit the wind". Am I going to be hung from a big ol' tree? ;)

The problem with American attitude on the "family" is the discussion is dominated by the American Christian Right.  The American Christian Right is a beast like no other.  They eulogise about the "Leave It To Beaver" family of well-off suburbanites, and the hard-scrabble bucolic family ala "The Waltons," and the professional African-American family exemplified by Bill Cosby.  Mom and Dad are together, they lay down the rules, everybody goes to Church, the children learn from their mistakes, and everybody pulls his own weight, but pitiches in to help the neighbors in need.  
Families not extolled by TV reruns are either admonished or condemned.  Poverty is a moral failing, divorce is due to character flaws, and nobody better even think about coming out of the closet, and government assistance is a crying shame to accept!
I don't find European social values to be ideal.  However, the European democracies have a more realistic attitude about the needs of people.  It is a myth that Europeans are more anti-family than Americans.
I think you were getting at the fact that Europeans get married less often and have fewer children.  However, divorce rates are lower, teenage pregnancy rates are lower, infant mortality rates are lower, and domestic violence rates are lower than in the U.S.  

I love you, man. You always try to be as logical as you can about everything. You cut out all of that silly, pretentious crap a lot of people will force over all their viewpoints. Ideas like nationalism, "family values" etc. Keep on truckin'. :)

Thanks...I often feel my arguments don't hang together too well.  I start making a point and then a dozen tangents and nuances appear in front of me.  I end up cutting it short before I write a book!
BTW, speaking of not buying gas.  If the price of oil rises permanently beyond middle class budgets, the Republicans can kiss their suburban "family values" goodbye.  There will be no more Mayfield, and no more big single-family house on 2.5 acres for Ward, June, Wally, and the Beaver!

The perfect example is England. People have far less disposable income due to higher real estate prices, higher interest rates, higher taxes and higher goods costs, then to top it all off they pay round about 3 times as much, if not more than we do AND STILL GET BY!

Oh, and public transport there.. IS AWFUL!


We do, however, have better beer...!!

We do, however, have better beer...!!


Too true. They don't actually know what real beer is. May as well start running the cars on the piss water so many like  ;D

The problem with American attitude on the "family" is the discussion is dominated by the American Christian Right.  The American Christian Right is a beast like no other.  

American Christian Right???  You don't have to be Christian to be concerned with the welfare of children.    I don't think that a person needs to live in a big house in the suburbs with a full size SUV, a cat, a dog, and goldfish in order to be a good parent.  But it helps if the parent can take care of him/herself before he/she brings a child into this world.

Check out this site.  Look at all the children who have been discarded by their parents... or taken away due to abuse or neglect.

http://www.adoptuskids.org/servlet/page?_pageid=188&_dad=portal30&_schema=PORTAL30

I don't think parents have to be filthy stinking rich to be good parents either.  I'm not exactly rolling in dough, but I spend tons of time with my son, making sure he stays fed and active, and save money for his education as well.  I'm not sure what being completely prepared is in terms of parenthood, but it's definitely not "doing nothing because you don't have enough money to be a good parent".

Gas prices are getting more harsh...ugh.  $3.15 a gallon at least.

American Christian Right???  You don't have to be Christian to be concerned with the welfare of children.     I don't think that a person needs to live in a big house in the suburbs with a full size SUV, a cat, a dog, and goldfish in order to be a good parent.  But it helps if the parent can take care of him/herself before he/she brings a child into this world.

Check out this site.  Look at all the children who have been discarded by their parents... or taken away due to abuse or neglect.

http://www.adoptuskids.org/servlet/page?_pageid=188&_dad=portal30&_schema=PORTAL30

Precisely my point.  The Christian Right fancies themselves big on "family values," but they support social policies that make it much harder for families of meager means to bring up children safely and securely.  Once their blowhard politicians get through decimating social programs (incl. public education) and fobbing the funds off to high bracket tax breaks and corporate subsidies, the Christian Right get their ya-yas condemning those cast adrift by budgetary piracy, and patting themselves on the back.
What can I say?  The Christan Right supports the Republican party and refuses to see beyond the GOP's empty rhetoric of triumphalism and self-congratulation.
I just got through saying it is better NOT to have children if you cannot provide a good home for them.  Unfortunately, that's not how life works.  People are careless or foolhardy.  They get in the family way with neither the means nor mind to be good parents.  That doesn't make them bad people, that merely makes them human, imperfect as we all are.  If we lived in a less competitive, selfish, and cut-throat nation, and developed more reasonable and compassionate social policy, more people in need with have an easier time being good parents.

Well, his comment was offensive--though I would say "iconoclastic" might e a better word.  He said what you're not supposed to say in a "Christian" nation--though you're Canadian, IIRC.  Here is the prejudice: Nice people luuuuv children and want to have many, selfish people don't like children, and don't want any.
My niece Ava is a comely child with remarkable intelligence, but she rides a rough sea of her parents divorce, poverty, insecurity, and turmoil.  She's six and smart enough to see my sister and brother-in-law's screwiness for what it is.  She'll struggle with rage and cynicism as she gets older.  Same thing happened to me with my parents.  It's not a perfect world.  So many people who have children seem to be the unprepared and incapable.  C'est la vie, that's the way it's always been. 
I admitted to myself I'm not big on kids, and I was felt I was lucky just to achieve any measure of sanity in my own life.  I don't want to be responsible for bringing up other human beings.

that's just it, kids don't come with instructions, some figure it out some don't. as for kids having to grow up with divorced parents is not the parents fault-nobody can predict the future


Whether you're a working mom or a stay-at-home mom is not germaine.  Alex has every right to tell you how many children you can have.  Fortunately, you have every right to ignore him.  That's what I meant by the insecurity people have about their decisions to have children.  Some dude on an internet discussion board says, "you shouldn't have so many kids," and parents see red.  It's ridiculous.


just because people find his comment offensive and made a comment on it doesn't mean that they are insecure about their decision to have kids.
and please explain how he has the right to tell people( that he doesn't know) how many kids they should have.

and please explain how he has the right to tell people( that he doesn't know) how many kids they should have.

Ah, I think it has something to do with freedom of speech.

Ah, I think it has something to do with freedom of speech.



true, but the thing is....he is okay with dishing out his opinions, etc...but as soon as anyone gave it back to him of what they thought of the situation....that is when it became a "bad" thing.  For example....he said such things in this thread that hurt and/or rubbed some people the wrong way....but he felt like nothing he said SHOULD have bothered them....and then in another thread, someone made a comment concerning him, as well as someone in this thread...and he was all up in arms. I feel that if you are able to "dish it out" and wish to pursue your "freedom of speech", then you should also be able to take it, when other's have something to say back to you.



Erin

I love you, man. You always try to be as logical as you can about everything. You cut out all of that silly, pretentious crap a lot of people will force over all their viewpoints. Ideas like nationalism, "family values" etc. Keep on truckin'. :)


Nationalism and family values are now evil republican things?  I wish the democrats would take up that line and run with it during a general election, they'd get about 5% of the vote.

P.S.: I highly doubt anybody here gives a rats' a** what the almight Europeans say or think.

I don't think anybody can tell you what you what to do with your life. That's why we live the way we do. We make our decisions ourselves.


Very well said Al Mr. Messiah. Glad you get/take the opportunity to enjoy your family! It's great to hear that.

Question... Why is it so wrong for a parent to get upset when someone criticizes "the family"? What is it that makes a man (or woman) gets ridiculed for believing in family values? Shouldn't it be a GOOD thing that people would WANT to stand up for their family? Yes, we all have our opinions and most are quite different from one another, yet at the same time don't we all want the same thing in the end? To live a happy, full, healthy life and to be able to look back when the end comes and think to yourself "Man, what a great life I had! I'm glad to have been able to enjoy it as much as I did"? To many people THAT involves caring for and raising children the best they can with the best that they can provide them and when someone steps in and takes pot shots at that... it's just not right.

Precisely my point.  The Christian Right fancies themselves big on "family values," but they support social policies that make it much harder for families of meager means to bring up children safely and securely.  Once their blowhard politicians get through decimating social programs (incl. public education) and fobbing the funds off to high bracket tax breaks and corporate subsidies, the Christian Right get their ya-yas condemning those cast adrift by budgetary piracy, and patting themselves on the back.
What can I say?  The Christan Right supports the Republican party and refuses to see beyond the GOP's empty rhetoric of triumphalism and self-congratulation.
I just got through saying it is better NOT to have children if you cannot provide a good home for them.  Unfortunately, that's not how life works.  People are careless or foolhardy.  They get in the family way with neither the means nor mind to be good parents.  That doesn't make them bad people, that merely makes them human, imperfect as we all are.  If we lived in a less competitive, selfish, and cut-throat nation, and developed more reasonable and compassionate social policy, more people in need with have an easier time being good parents.



even people with "meager funds" can be good parents. It doesn't take money to be a better parent. It doesn't take money to teach your children certain values. Sometimes the opposite, children who parents are just getting by have more respect and appreciation for what they have (at least where I live they do) children who have everything handed to them-their attitude is "oh well there is more where that came from"

Ah, I think it has something to do with freedom of speech.


so if I say that I think everyone should have at least 3 kids to keep the human race going, nobody would be offended that I am trying to take their decisions away from them. ::)

BTW my above statement is just as GHEY as this one







Well perhaps you shouldn't have had so many children. What do they tell you in high school? Work hard, make good grades, go to college. Did you do that? if so, why not? Thats the type of decision making I am referring to.

BTW my above statement is just as GHEY as this one










I don't see how being Happy has anything to do with it...  ???  :D



Beth

I'm sick of this. I'm sick of hearing people complain about gas prices. WE HAVE IT EASY, PEOPLE. Europe has MUCH higher gas prices and they get by. We need more public transportation in this country. If you live in an area without, move. If gas prices are REALLY that debilitating to you, then you should be willing to move to an area that has adequate public transportation. Otherwise, please stop complaining. Considering all of the other concerns in this world, its sickening. If worrying about what you are paying at the pump is your worst problem, newsflash: You have it pretty good. I'm young and have very little money, but I manage to pay for gas.
I'm glad things have settled down a little bit, and maybe now we can get back on topic and discuss this issue without things getting so heated. I do have to take issue with a few things here, though. First of all, I think that most of us here have been fully aware that Europe has had much higher gas prices than the U.S. for a long time. However, the actual price of gasoline in Europe is pretty close to that of the United States, and their higher prices at the pump is mainly due to their much higher fuel taxes. I am also aware that we Americans have had it good for a long time when it comes to gas prices, and that we've been dragging our feet when it comes to conservation and reducing our dependence on fossil fuels. Perhaps in the long term some good may ultimately come from this, in that it may accelerate the development of more fuel-efficient cars and alternative energy sources, but in the meantime this is going to put the hurt on a lot of decent, hard-working people. So please try not to be so judgmental, Alex.
      Second of all, you have to consider that every morsel of food you eat, every article of clothing you wear, every consumer good that you use is at some point shipped by truck. Owner-operators are especially having trouble making ends meet. (As far as choosing to drive a truck for a living as being a "bad decision," don't even go there.)  There has been talk in the trucking industry of adding a fuel surcharge to the cost of shipping freight in order to alleviate the high cost of diesel fuel, and this will be passed on to the consumer. So even if you may drive a fuel-efficient car and may limit your driving (or even if you have access to decent public transportation), this will still affect your pocketbook.
      Finally, I have been hearing rumors (and yes, they are only rumors) that the price of crude oil may top $100 a barrel within the next year or so, which would translate to gas prices of $5-6 per gallon here in the U.S. (and God only knows how much in Europe).  If this were to happen it would be devastating to the world economy, and millions would lose their jobs. Hopefully these rumors are unfounded, and indeed many oil-producing nations have been ramping up their production in order to help the U.S. in this time of crisis, but I don't think we'll ever see gas get below $2.50 a gallon and we'd better start getting used to it.
      To be honest, I think you brought up many good points, Alex, but I also think your tone was quite unnecessary.

(As far as choosing to drive a truck for a living as being a "bad decision," don't even go there.) 

But what do you know about that, seeing as you're a piano player in a whore house  ;)

But what do you know about that, seeing as you're a piano player in a whore house  ;)
Goodness, gracious...GREAT BALLS OF FIRE!!! :D