Trust me, you probably do not want to know my belief of the origin of AIDS, Ebola, Marburg, and the other such virus that are running through the world now.



Actually, I would.  You can PM them to me if you'd like :)


Since it was asked, I thought I should share what it is.  And I am sure that I am going to come under immediate attack for this by some people.

The HIV virus which causes AIDS is just one of a lot of "Rainforest Virus" to break into the general population in the last 100 years.  Among them are Ebola, Marburg, Bolivian Hemorrhagic Fever, Argentine Hemorrhagic Fever, Crimean-Congo Hemorrhagic Fever, Lassa Fever, and of course AIDS.

One thing that a lot of these diseases share is that they all tend to originate in the rainforest regions of the world.  Another is that they are all caused by virus.

AIDS is typical of these diseases.  However, unlike the others it does not kill the subject quickly, but instead it destroys their immune system.  This can take years or even decades.

AIDS firse became known world-wide in 1981, when GRID (Gay Related Immune Difficiency) was reported by the CDC.  It was considered a "cluster plague", because it seemed to occur mostly in gay communities.  The next year, it was given the name AIDS, for Acquired Immune Defficiency Syndrome.  It was called a Syndrome, because the source for the sickness had yet to be discovered.

Since the discovery of the HIV virus, some scientists have suggested it be renamed AIDD (D for disease), but the name AIDS is now to well known.

Looking back at older evidence, it quickly becomes evident that AIDS is not a new disease.

Back in the 1940's, some tribes in the Congo suffered from what was known as the "Thin Disease".  This disease took decades to kill the person, and it was considered to be a form of local poisoning (there were some similarities with mercury poisoning, which is present in larger then normal quantities in that region of the world).

In the 1990's, some doctors went back through preserved samples from people who died decades earlier.

The earliest known sample of AIDS dates to 1959.  It came from a man who died in Kinshasa, Zaire.

The next known date is 1966, from a Norwegian sailor, his wife, and his nine year old daughter.  4 years prior, he had spent time in various ports in West Africa.

In 1969, a 15 year old immigrant from Africa died in St. Louis City Hospital.  Originally diagnosed as Kaposi's Sarcoma (a virus caused form of cancer), it was revealed in 1999 that he really died of HIV-1.

In 1977, Dr. Grethe Rask, a Danish surgeon died of what was listed as unknown causes.  His immune system had shut down, and he had multiple infections through his body.  He lived and worked in Zaire from 1972 until 1977.  Doctors at the time were unable to explain the cause of his death.

Now I know all the conspiracy theories.  The diesase was created by the US Government.  It is a form of biological warfare against African-Americans and Homosexuals.  That there is a cure laying hidden away.  That the US Government is doing nothing to stop it.

OK, now for a bit of reality.

Nobody in the world has the ability to create a virus.  They certainly did not have the ability to create a virus in the 1950's.

If it was to be used to kill African-Americans and Gay men, then why was it released in Africa?  And why create a virus that kills so slowly?

There is no cure for any virus.  That's right, none.  Not one virus has ever been cured ever.  Either the patient manages to fight it off, or they die.  Pneumonia is an easily cured disease for the most part, unless the person is unfortuniate enough to get viral pneumonia.  Then, all doctors can do is give them support, and hope they pull through it.  Antibiotics do no good against a virus.

The US leads the world in AIDS research.  In 2003, the US Government spent over $2.64 billion dollars on AIDS research and care for those that have the disease worldwide.  That does not count the amount of money spent on prevention efforts.

In 2003, all of the worldwide private and corporate funding for AIDS vaccines ammounted to $602 million.  Of that figure, $516 million came from the US.  All of Europe combined ammounted to only $56 million.

http://www.iavi.org/viewfile.cfm?fid=30892

Another interesting factor is that every disease needs a carrier.  In almost every case, the carrier is asymptomatic.  That means that while they can carry the disease, they do not get sick from it.  And AIDS does have such a carrier.

There are 2 species of the virus, HIV-1 and HIV-2.  HIV-1 is closely related to (and believed to be the original source before it mutated) of Simian Immunodeficiency Virus.  This virus was first discovered in 1985, although it's symptoms were known for decades earlier.

HIV-1 more then likely entered humans from Chimpanzees.  The Chimp is the perfect asymptomatic carrier.  It can live with the virus for decades, but it never gets sick from it.  HIV-1 has been found in wild chimps, which have never had human contact, which mans that it is a common virus in their communities.

HIV-2 more then likely came from the Sooty Mangabey, also known as the White-collared Mangabey.  It suffers from a version of Simian Immunodeficiency Virus as well, just like the Chimp.  And HIV-2 is a mutated form of that virus.  In the case of a Sooty Mangabey with HIV-2, it will never get sick from the disease.

Now in order for AIDS to be a US invention, that means that HIV-1 would have had to be introduced into Chimpanzee colonies in the 1950's at the latest.

And for those that question why it took so long to be discovered, think about this:

The connection between Human Papilloma Virus and Cervical Cancer was only made in the last decade.  And in the last decade it was also discovered that HPV is the most common sexually-trasmitted disease, infecting an estimated 80% of the population.

Myself, I think that AIDS, Ebola, and other virus have been around in one form or another for thousands, if not millions of years.  They are only being "discovered" now, as we encroach farther and farther into rainforest environments.  And the shrinking of these environments is also causing the vectors (carriers) to come into more frequent contact with humans.

Add to the mix, the antibiotics and stronger immune systems because of innoculations.  This only means that when a new virus comes into contact with humans, it must mutate faster in order to survive.  This is obvious in diseases like AIDS and Ebola, which both mutate very easily.

And for those that question if things work the other way around, they do.  Ebola Restin is a disease which is deadly to monkeys, but to which humans seem to be a perfect carrier.  In the 1986 outbreak in Restin Virginia, hundreds of monkeys died.  Yet none of the handlers who tested positive for the disease ever got sick.  Humans are not the primary carrier of this disease though.  So far, no asymptomatic source carrier for any form of Ebola has ever been discovered.  However, the most common suspect are bats.

In 1995, Richard Preston wrote a book about the Restin outbreak, called The Hot Zone.  While it is greatly sensationalized, the core facts about the disease are accurate.

If AIDS has existed for thousands of years in Africa, I wonder why it is only in the past couple of decades that it has become a pandemic decimating the entire population of sub-Saharan Africa.

I would hate for some OTHER rainforest virus--one with a pathalogy such as smallpox or pneumonic plague--to find its way into the human population as we destroy evermore rainforest terrain.

If AIDS has existed for thousands of years in Africa, I wonder why it is only in the past couple of decades that it has become a pandemic decimating the entire population of sub-Saharan Africa.

I would hate for some OTHER rainforest virus--one with a pathalogy such as smallpox or pneumonic plague--to find its way into the human population as we destroy evermore rainforest terrain.


More then likely AIDS as we know it now is a fairly recent mutation, within the last century or so.  The forerunner that is most identifiable as "AIDS" is what was known in the Congo as "The Thin Disease".  AIDS now has mutated many times over the last 2-3 decades.  And with every mutation it grows stronger.

Part of the problem is the treatments available.  The "cocktails" do wonders to keep the virus count low.  But once the virus learns to mutate to a stronger version, the cocktail is no longer effective.  Unless there is a stronger one available, the patient normally dies fairly quickly.

Magic Johnson is currently on his 3rd or 4th series of cocktails, and has an almost undetectible virus count.  And unless the information has changed in the last 2 years, there is not a cocktail available that he can switch to.  Unless that changes, the next time his count starts to go up, he will more then likely die in a few years.

And we do have diseases that are more deadly then even smallpox.  Ebola-Zaire is rougly 98% fatal.  Ebola-Sudan is only around 58% fatal.  Marburg seems to be growing more fatal every time a new outbreak occurs.  In the first case, the fatality rate was roughly 25%.  In the 1998-2000 outbreak in the Congo, the mortality rate was roughly 83%.  Compare those to the mortality rate of smallpox, which was only 20-40%.

If you look at it honestly, we would be lucky if the mortality was only that of smallpox!

The difference with most of these virus though is the vector.  In most "plagues" in the past, the vector was either animals (like fleas on rats), or humans.  And the poor sanitary conditions gave disease a much richer environment to thrive in.

Today, most virus like Ebola burn themselves out before they spread beyond a small area.  And until the original vector is discovered, nothing can be done to prevent future outbreaks.  So far, every animal that has been tested has either gotten sick and died, or totally rejected the virus.

On a side note:

One interesting thing I noticed tonight when I was doing some more research.  I looked at the Wikipedia listing for Magic Johnson, and found no notice of his AIDS at all.  Since I am a member, I pulled up the history of the site, and have found that every time somebody adds information about his condition (and the cover of his 1992 book What You Can Do To Avoid Aids, somebody vandalizes it and removes the information.  They also remove all mention of the Magic Johnson Foundation.  This has happened over 200 times.

Excellent summation, Mushroom - I only found one thing to disagree with


AIDS, and it's source

...it should be "its" ;)

But seriously - that's a well-researched bit of epidemiology, and would recommend it to anyone (especially those who believe any of the more far-fetched conspiracy theories about where AIDS came from).

Something to add to those people who'd argue with this bit:
There is no cure for any virus.  That's right, none.  Not one virus has ever been cured ever.  Either the patient manages to fight it off, or they die.
The only thing that gets rid of a virus is a body's own immune system - and often not completely: viruses (viri?) replicate within cells, and the immune system can only function outside the cell wall - once a virus has infected you, it'll be there till all the cells it infected die and are broken down.  This may happen, or may not (depending on the cell type infected).  But once a body has resistance to a virus, i.e. the virus's antigen "signature" is known to the immune system, the virus can no longer spread within the body: as soon as it turns up outside the cell, the body deals with it.  That's the way we deal with viruses at the moment: expose someone to a (usually) inactivated version of the virus: some inert virus-like beastie with the same protein signature, and when the *real* virus turns up there's no time lag working out that this is harmful: the immune system is already attuned.  This works pretty well for some of the little pox viruses, like smallpox, chicken pox, etc.  For some reason, though, it's not worked with HIV - this may be due to the high mutability, but is probably more to do with the body's inability to see HIV as a threat: the immune system never seems to start fighting HIV.  Which is odd...

Something to add to those people who'd argue with this bit:The only thing that gets rid of a virus is a body's own immune system - and often not completely: viruses (viri?) replicate within cells, and the immune system can only function outside the cell wall - once a virus has infected you, it'll be there till all the cells it infected die and are broken down.


Thanks for the compliment.  (The scientific singular is viron or virion)

I was not trying to get into specifics.  I did not want to get into the specifics of RNA/DNA, but was trying to keep it more general.  Mostly, I was trying to give some general information, information that most people do not run across in their day to day life.  And it is this lack of information that allows a lot of the "myths" to continue and spread.

A lot of people do not take the time to research things.  They rely on what others tell them.  And all to often, some people believe totally flawed or wrong information.  And the problem is that often after a period of time, people start to accept those beliefs as fact.

I first came in contact with the "US created" conspiracy theory in 1993.  And believe it or not, it was Rapper "Ice Cube" that told it to me.

He was a regular customer at a store I worked at, and he wore a short talking about how AIDS was created by the US Government.  When I asked him about it, he went on for several minutes, about how it was created and released in Africa in the late 1970's, then again in the US in the 1980's.  I believe that the Africa release in his theory was to test it out.  I remember thinking back then it was perspammersite.

But it amazed me how over the years, more and more people seem to believe it!  I myself was largely ignorant of the specifics until I heard an interview on the radio.  Richard Preston was talking about a new book he had written, The Hot Zone.  I bought the book the next week, and that started my own desire to know more about them.

I had to learn even more when my fiancee died of Viral Pneumonia in 1998.  One thing that was a comfort was knowing that there was nothing myself or the rest of her family could have done.  The doctors did everything that was possible.  And over the years, I have had ignorant people accuse me (and them) of being inept.

"Pneumonia is so easy to cure" was one of the most comments I heard.  Which is true, with the more common bacterial pneumonia.  I have had that myself 2 times, and successfully fought it off.  But if somebody has the viral type, all doctors can do is give what support they can, and hope for the best.


This may happen, or may not (depending on the cell type infected).  But once a body has resistance to a virus, i.e. the virus's antigen "signature" is known to the immune system, the virus can no longer spread within the body: as soon as it turns up outside the cell, the body deals with it.


That is the basis of innoculation.  And besically we have 2 forms, similar virus and dead virus.

The first forms were dead virus, even though it was primitive.  Lady Mary Wortley Montagu used a needle to infect people with puss from people who suffered from mild cases of small pox.  The people she infected would develop a very mild form of the disease, and then recover.  After that, they were immune to the disease.  In 1721, she performed the treatment on the Brittish ROyal Family.  It was a success, and by 1723 it has become common.  Unknown to them, this was a fore-runner of "dead virus" innoculation.  This was also what Dr. Salk used for the first Polio vaccination.

The danger though is that sometimes the people come down with the disease themselves.  While much lower then the disease itself, the risk of getting a full-blown infection was always a risk.

As a side note, the practice was introduced to the Americas by Onesimus, an African slave.  He knew of a similar procedure that was done in Africa.  He explained it to his new owner, Cotton Mather.  At least 6 people died from the procedure when he first tried it, but by 1722 it made him a hero when it helped stop a small pox outbreak in Boston.

In 1796, Edward Jenner confirmed the "wives tale" that people who had caught Cow Pox were immune to the more deadly small pox.  This was the beginning of "similar virus" innoculation.


For some reason, though, it's not worked with HIV - this may be due to the high mutability, but is probably more to do with the body's inability to see HIV as a threat: the immune system never seems to start fighting HIV.  Which is odd...


The problem with HIV is two-fold.

For one, the virus mutates very fast.  The other is that there are many different variants of the virus.  It is more accurate to say that HIV is a family of similar virus, not one virus.  The main forms are A, B, C, D, and AE.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Subtype.png

There have been some success with innoculations.  But any one innoculation is only effective against one strain of AIDS.  Another fear is that the widespread use of a vaccination may only cause the virus to grow stronger.  This is what happened when it broke out from Africa.

One belief in how this may have happened is because of the Black Plauge.  When this plague whiped out most of the people in Europe in the 14th century,  Most of the survivors passed along a gene known as CCR5-32.  This has the ability to greatly slow-down the progression on the virus.  This may explain why people of European descent live longer with the disease then people of Asian or African descent.  And the exposure of HIV to this gene may have lead it to grow stronger, in order to overcome it.

And just add the fact that it overcomes the immune system itself.  This is somewhat similar to Leukemia.

THANK YOU~~~~  I finally have someone else who believes the same as I do.  After watching the movie "And the Band Played On", I did quite a bit of research on AIDS and came to basically the same conclusion.  Yours is much more detailed than mine, but it is basically the same.  I have actually *almost* convinced my best friend that it also was not spread by some sickos having sex with chimps, but from humans eating them.  (My theory on this was based on part of the Faces of Death series where they showed a group of men eating a small chimps brains after they bashed it's skull in with small hammers.)

I wouldn't eat animal brains, no way!  Turns out there's a lot of bad brains!

I have actually *almost* convinced my best friend that it also was not spread by some sickos having sex with chimps, but from humans eating them.  (My theory on this was based on part of the Faces of Death series where they showed a group of men eating a small chimps brains after they bashed it's skull in with small hammers.)


Actually, that bit from "Faces" is faked (as is most of the clips in that series of movies).

Most scientists believe the actual cause was either eating uncooked or poorly cooked meat, infections during butchering of the money, or from monkey bites.

One of the early suspected sources of Ebola was primates, until it was discovered it killed them just as fast as it did humans.

And to be honest, we are lucky that major outbreaks have not occured more frequently.

In 1918, the Spanish Flu killed as many as 100 million people.  The estimated infection rate worldwide was 20%.  Percentage wise, that is much higher then the number of people that suffer from AIDS.

And right now, SARS, West Nile, and other virus are starting to work through the worlds population.  It is only luck that we have been able to avoid another world-wide pandemic.


I wouldn't eat animal brains, no way!  Turns out there's a lot of bad brains!


I myself have had brains in the past.  In the 1970's, it was not to unusual to find in some ethnic resteraunts.  It was only with the outbreak of "Mad Cow" that most stopped offering such items.

Really?  I could've sworn I saw something similar (not the beating them in with a hammer, but the eating of monkey brains) on a FoodTV show (of which the name is escaping me right now) where the guy goes around and tries some really weird stuff. ???  There was also another episode where he was in the Far East and was eating octopus ink or something like that ???


Well, this is a rather well checked report on this "Urban Myth":

http://www.maxent.org/ch/monkey_brains.html

As far as "eating ink", that is rather far-fetched.  I myself enjoy eating octopus (even though it is almost impossible to find here in Alabama).  And having caught octopus while diving myself, there is really not a lot of ink!  I would guess that they have 2-3 tablespoons at most.  Call it 1 shot, in alcohol terms.  And since it's purpose is to help escape from preditors, I find it hard to imagine it would taste anything but bad.  After all, having a defense mechanism that "tastes good" kinda defeats the purpose.

One interesting thing I noticed tonight when I was doing some more research.  I looked at the Wikipedia listing for Magic Johnson, and found no notice of his AIDS at all.  Since I am a member, I pulled up the history of the site, and have found that every time somebody adds information about his condition (and the cover of his 1992 book What You Can Do To Avoid Aids, somebody vandalizes it and removes the information.  They also remove all mention of the Magic Johnson Foundation.  This has happened over 200 times.

Hi Mushroom - I just checked this out, as I'm a fairly regular user and fan of wikipedia. Today, the entry for Magic Johnson does contain reference to all of the things you mention, although I guess I could have just lucked out and found it imbetween its 200th and 201st edit to remove these references.

Outside of basketball, Johnson is probably most famous for his November 7, 1991, public announcement that he had contracted HIV and would be immediately retiring from basketball. The public announcement by a prominent and popular athlete shocked the nation into awareness about the AIDS epidemic and helped put the virus into the public eye.

Johnson and a team of ghostwriters produced a book which was published by Random House in 1992. Profits from the book were donated to the Magic Johnson Foundation for the prevention, education, research and care in the battle against AIDS.

I can see the edit history indeed has over 200 entries but from a random sample, not all of those edits relate to the information about HIV / AIDS. 
What would be the motivation for somebody to repeatedly remove this information anyway? I'm not sure what point you're making - can you explain please?