Ok Pat Robertson gave his kindof apology..prior to that, the Bush Administration heard the flap and stated how Pat was a public citizen and that was HIS remark, the office of Pres. Bush does NOT want to/or would not condone assassination on the political leader.

WHAT DOES THE LEADER SAY: Pat Robertson represents the 'American elite' and soif the Venezualan leader IS assassinated, Pres. Bush is to blame.

Hey, guess there are kooks everywhere. 

Sorry that's not how it works...

Tell me about it....  ::)

Well, it wouldn't be the first time that arms of the US gov't, acting under authority of a president, attempted to, or succeeded in assassinating a foreign leader.  Read the 1975 (or so) report of the Senate Select Committee on Government Operations with Respect to Intelligance (the Church Committee). 

Is that online somewhere?

I still hold the Bay of Pigs against Kennedy, Kennedy failed to give them needed air support.  Cuba is still suffering because of that.

I still hold the Bay of Pigs against Kennedy, Kennedy failed to give them needed air support.  Cuba is still suffering because of that.

Yeah, if only the sugar barons and the mafia were still running Cuba, everything would be just fine and dandy, like it was under Batista!
:P

Yeah, if only the sugar barons and the mafia were still running Cuba, everything would be just fine and dandy, like it was under Batista!
:P


wouldnt be communism though

Is that online somewhere?


I have no idea, but is should be in any library that is a depository for gov't doc's, and it is certainly a part of the Congressional Record.


I still hold the Bay of Pigs against Kennedy, Kennedy failed to give them needed air support. Cuba is still suffering because of that.


On the legal side, the US Gov't suipport for this invasion violated lots of precepts of international law, and was akin to supporting terrorism, and not the first nor the last time.

On the military side, it was foolhardy to say the least.  Sure there were lots of  Cubans opposed to Castro, but they were in Miami, and not likely to rise up in support of the invasion.

On the moral side, what gives the US the right to tell the Cubans, or anyone else how to run their country?

And in terms of this thread, what the he11 does this have to do with Hugo Chavez and Pat Robertson?

Yeah, if only the sugar barons and the mafia were still running Cuba, everything would be just fine and dandy, like it was under Batista!
:P


Are you honestly saying that Castro's Cuba is a fine place to live?

Are you honestly saying that Castro's Cuba is a fine place to live?


Certainly better than it was under Batista!  Batista was a bloody dictator.  People were disappeared, there was widespread hungar, illiteracy was the rule for the overwhelming majority, infant mortality was very high and most people never saw a doctor in their lives.  Cuba may not be an edan today, but the average Cuban is much better off now, even with the current hardships, than they were under Batista.

Certainly better than it was under Batista!  Batista was a bloody dictator.  People were disappeared, there was widespread hungar, illiteracy was the rule for the overwhelming majority, infant mortality was very high and most people never saw a doctor in their lives.  Cuba may not be an edan today, but the average Cuban is much better off now, even with the current hardships, than they were under Batista.


I'm not going to argue with that because I don't have any idea who Batista was.  But Castro's political opponents and average joes on the street who speak out against him always seem to disappear.

And thanks to countries like Canada, people can fly to Cuba and help out old Fidel.

And thanks to countries like Canada, people can fly to Cuba and help out old Fidel.


You have a problem with people flying to Cuba from Canada. Yet people can fly freely to China from the USA, no problem. I find that strange ???

Aw face it, you're just jealous that we can buy kicka$$ cigars! :D

Are you honestly saying that Castro's Cuba is a fine place to live?

America's fine places are created from overuse of petroleum and imperialist plunder.  I enjoy the benefits of both every day.  I don't get to play the links at a luxury country club, drive a Lincoln Navigator, or fly business class, like the Limbaugh image of a "good American' depicts, but I recognize the amenities I do enjoy are derived from expropration of Third World labor and resources for American benefity.
No, I wouldn't trade Amherst for Cuba, but I'd rather live in Cuba than Haiti, El Salvador, or even Mexico.

I'm not going to argue with that because I don't have any idea who Batista was.  But Castro's political opponents and average joes on the street who speak out against him always seem to disappear.

And thanks to countries like Canada, people can fly to Cuba and help out old Fidel.


It is simply NOT true that political opponents disappear in Cuba.  They  may be arrested on what some would call trumped up charges and sentanced to jail time, but that is not the same as being  disappeared, noit even close.  Just ask the madres de los dsaparecidos in Argentina.  They would all give their eye teeth to know what happened to their kids during the "dirty little war" of the 70's and 80's.

Venezualan KOOK #1


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/talking_point/4350254.stm

As a Venezuelan I don't understand what you are doing in my country. Since you are President we're poorer and more negligent about public issues. You are an autocratic leader and you must go out of the presidency to give chance a really representatives of the poor. Venezuela would thank you.
Carlos Fernando Calatrava P, Caracas, Venezuela

President Chavez is more concerned about trying to get under the skin of the US Government than he is about his own country and his own people. The business environment in this country has gone downhill fast in the years he has led this country. He is not well liked in this country. The outsiders who know nothing that goes on are the one's who have a fascination with him.
Eduardo Perez, Caracas, Venezuela

I am a single mother of 3 with a food shop in Caracas. The government has just opened a Mercal store close to me with subsidised prices at 50% of what I can sell. My business will soon be finished. I am one of millions of poorer Venezuelans that are facing lower income and unemployment. Does the government plan to employ 25m people? Why don't they understand they can best help us by allowing our businesses to do well? Most of us do want work and do well and provide for our families.
Andreina, Caracas, Venezuela

My question is actually for the readers. Doesn't it strike you as odd that all the people that seem to like President Chavez's policies are foreigners? You need to hear the other side of the story. The one of prosecution, disrespect for basic human rights, economic uncertainty, poverty. He is not different than any other populist presidents we've had in the past... well, maybe he is: he is selling himself and his so-called revolution to the world. I would invite any of you to come to my adored country for a few months... leave your comfortable lives in US, Canada, Denmark, etc and come here and see for yourself. He is the best marketing person there is.
Maria Paula, Caracas, Venezuela

Poverty in my country is increasing. Freedom of speech is dominated by the government. Those against the President's rule are coined as traitors and villains. Private property its been undermined. Mr. Chavez, if you think that been rich is a bad thing, as you have said - can you explain to poor people why are you surrounded of luxury?
Daniel, Cumana, Venezuela

Mr. President: How dare you pretend to export your "Bolivarian Revolution" to the entire world, when the levels of poverty in our country, are higher than ever? At International press conferences why don't you talk about the way you control all of the states institutions? Perhaps you have forgotten to tell the rest of the world how you are using a new law to control and silence the private media.
Rafael Martinez, Valencia, Venezuela

So, you quote 6 people who don't like Don Hugo.  I could walk a block around little old Fair Haven and find 6 people who would say equally negative things about Lil' Georgie.  Your post makes no point.  Every president of every country has distractors.  So what?

HUGO CHAVEZ STRIKES BACK!!!

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2005-10/13/content_3612778.htm

So, you quote 6 people who don't like Don Hugo.  I could walk a block around little old Fair Haven and find 6 people who would say equally negative things about Lil' Georgie.  Your post makes no point.  Every president of every country has distractors.  So what?


The thing is, the only people that say anything good about Chavez are people part of his inner circles and some far-left Americans, Canadians and Europeans who ignore what he does and like him because he says bad things about the war in Iraq.

It's the same with Fidel Castro.  Who cares if he suppresses free speech?  Who cares if is a dictator who allows no fair elections?  Who cares if he is a murderer and a war criminal?  Who cares if Cubans are jumping on rafts and small boats and illegally sailing to America to get away from him?  He must be a great guy because he provides free healthcare to all in his country!

It's the same with both Cuba and Venezuela, almost everyone saying anything good about those countries and their leaders are people who have never stepped foot in them?  The most recent example is that pitcher (don't know his name) for the Chicago White Sox who once lived and Cuba and sailed to America on a small boat in 2002 and speaks out about how much he hates Castro.  Castro called him a "traitor" and forbidded anyone in Cuba from watching him on television in game one of the world series this year. 

I guess Castro is mad that he made a better life for himself and now has the wealth that he has.  Remember, Castro is worth an estimated 550 million according to Forbes magazine.  Wealth redistribution for every mere mortal in Cuba except for the unchoosen one, Fidel Castro.  Some socialist!

Castro is a communist, not a socialist proper. Secondly, there are people in Cuba who support Castro and there are people in Cuba who do not. Many of the latter have fled, just like Bush's regime has inspired American émigré communities all over the world. So what? George Bush is rich as hell, but it's OK because he openly admits his greed, and Castro is wrong because he's greedy under false pretenses... right? Huge difference. I neither support Castro nor oppose him at this point, partly because I really don't know what it's like to be Cuban. I do know that his regime is much better than Batista's, but just because it's better doesn't make it good. And just because his regime is not necessarily good, doesn't make Batista's any better. Get it?

The thing is, the only people that say anything good about Chavez are people part of his inner circles and some far-left Americans, Canadians and Europeans who ignore what he does and like him because he says bad things about the war in Iraq.

It's the same with Fidel Castro.  Who cares if he suppresses free speech?  Who cares if is a dictator who allows no fair elections?  Who cares if he is a murderer and a war criminal?  Who cares if Cubans are jumping on rafts and small boats and illegally sailing to America to get away from him?  He must be a great guy because he provides free healthcare to all in his country!

It's the same with both Cuba and Venezuela, almost everyone saying anything good about those countries and their leaders are people who have never stepped foot in them?  The most recent example is that pitcher (don't know his name) for the Chicago White Sox who once lived and Cuba and sailed to America on a small boat in 2002 and speaks out about how much he hates Castro.  Castro called him a "traitor" and forbidded anyone in Cuba from watching him on television in game one of the world series this year. 

I guess Castro is mad that he made a better life for himself and now has the wealth that he has.  Remember, Castro is worth an estimated 550 million according to Forbes magazine.  Wealth redistribution for every mere mortal in Cuba except for the unchoosen one, Fidel Castro.  Some socialist!


This is just a crook of right wing nonsense not worth responding to.  The majority of Venezuelans support Chavez.

Sure some Cubans are dissatrisfied and don't like Fidel, and some are lured here by the goodies they think they can get.  Many Cubans recognize what the revolution has accomplished rather than what it has failed to do.  The etenbt to which there is a lack of freedom in Cuba is very highly debatable.

Where, and in what resources does Castro have all these millions?  In a swiss bank account?  For what purpose?  He ain't going nowhere. 

Again, this is simply a regugitation of the crap our "fair and ballanced" State Dept. puts out to demonize leaders we don't like repeated by people who no noithing about the reality.