This may be  a topic that is frustrating to many who strive to keep on the right side of the law,
in a utpoian society, we wouldn't have crime or fear etc... but is anyone really working to this end or do they just throw up their arms and say 'IT WILL NEVER BE SAFE AND PEACEFUL IN OUR WORLD OR EVEN OUR IMMEDIATE INHABITANCE'?

After hearing a radio interview from those who work for the prison system, (federal or state), a worker or past  prisoner gave the low down that there are 3 types of GANGS in prisons and once someone is sent there, to keep protected, they must pick from one to join..WELL......! How OR WHY the hell do we let GANGS exist in a prison when we try to control them outside of prison?

Is this too hard of a problem to contain or enforce?

Such as when Chicago feared GANGSTERS in the 40's..a few held many people in fear, when if the police and or government would have handed down stiff sentences to ANYONE involved in a gang!

So in prisons you NEED to join-so no one 'MESSES' with you...HEY..YOU'RE IN PRISON..SERVING A SENTENCE! 'Mess' with someone,.get more time!

WHY ARE THERE GANGS ALLOWED..??!! I always contended..you have/join a gang, automatic 40 years! Even better, if someone is sentenced to multiple LIFE terms, why not execute them now..what will come out of the prison system-shave a few years off you multiple lives?

Why can't someone end 'prison' gangs so , yes, when the person leaves, they may be able to rejoin a decent world instead of being more hard core from all the 'NEW' contacts he made in the pool?

PEACE FOR ALL. :)
 

I think a lot of people figure let them kill each other, there not coming back to live in my niegborhood when and if they get out anyway.

In a perfect world, prisoners would have complete control over the violent behavior that got them there in the first place, and would not riot if a prison guard increased someone's sentence for bad behavior. But if this was a perfect world, why would we need prisons anyway?

Of course it's not perfect but for those who talk of making the world a better place to live, the ultimate would be to phase out prisons but why not work from within and MEAN it..not gangs, no threats, fighting rewarded with more time.

If you don't think anyof these paroles are near you..I was woken upby the sites that list, by neighborhood,  what kind of offenders are nearby..you'd be surprised you maybe in a neighborhood FILLED with excons..!

"The degree of civilization in a society can be judged by entering its prisons."
  --  Fyodor Dostoevsky 

Or as an oft quoted Russian saying goes, "A fish rots from the head down."

What you see in American prisons is a direct result of the values and policies imposed by those who control America's economic culture.
The politicians and preachers yapping from the Right about "gangsta rap" and "personal responsibility" are engaging in subterfuge.  The nicey-nice atmosphere of America's genteel boroughs, from Piedmont to Greenwich, hides the shame of the country's poverty and violence from policy makers and pundits alike.
Our economic elites care not what happens to our fellow citizens born into systemic deprivation, nor for the brutality that follows them into our barbarous prison-industrial complex.  As a matter of fact, the elites profit handsomely from both.
You ask why there are gangs in America's prisons, look no further than the priorities that drive the United States government.

How OR WHY the hell do we let GANGS exist in a prison when we try to control them outside of prison?
a.) The people who run the prisons are corrupt,

b.)The people who run the prisons don't give a ****,

c.) A combination of a.) and b.)

a.) The people who run the prisons are corrupt,
b.)The people who run the prisons don't give a ****,
c.) A combination of a.) and b.)

d) Just plain incompetence...

... but seriously, there ain't no way it would be possible to stop gangs in some shape or form inside prison - the only way you'd do that is put every inmate into segregation for the whole of their term, and then you'd have to expect some serious psychos on release.

What they can do (or at least, try to do) is try to enforce civilised behaviour within/between gangs - I was in a prison last week when a guy ended up in the hospital unit as the result of a sequence of events that sounded like something out of a sitcom: someone (let's call him "A") played a minor prank on B, who thought it was C so he went out to get C... C, OTOH, was fairly sure it was A who played the prank, so went out to get him... it was A who ended up in hospital, but says it wasn't him who played the original prank but some other bod - and the poor guys running the prison have to work out who's telling the truth.

Don't really know why I told that one, except that it would probably have ended up a whole load worse (for A) if there had been a strong gang culture.

Just to jump back to what I said earlier: civilised behaviour is essential within a prison - the majority of inmates will be released at some point, and you don't want them to have lost all civil habits, do you?

I'd just like to say that I've been in twenty-something different prisons, and I've never seen prison in a film that represented anything like reality.  Reality is *way* too boring to be made into a film - certainly over this side of the pond.  I don't know if the regimes within US prisons are the same, though.

I'd just like to say that I've been in twenty-something different prisons, and I've never seen prison in a film that represented anything like reality.  Reality is *way* too boring to be made into a film - certainly over this side of the pond.  I don't know if the regimes within US prisons are the same, though.

What line of work takes you to so many prisons?  Or do you have a lot of friends who just can't stay out of trouble?
:D

I used to think they should do away with pumping iron as exercise and have the inmates do yoga, or Tai Chi, something that wouldn't raise the testosterone levels.  Then I heard about an experiment in some prison where they DID introduce yoga to some of the prisoners.  Turns out yoga made the convicts even more combative!  So, I don't know....

What line of work takes you to so many prisons? Or do you have a lot of friends who just can't stay out of trouble?
:D

I write security systems - fingerprint recognition and the like.

I write security systems - fingerprint recognition and the like.

Oh wow!  Far out.  Cool job.
:)

I agree with philbo on this one.  There's no way to PREVENT them other than total segregation.  It's just not feasible.  :-\\


And even that will not do anything.  Believe me, I know.

I had the "pleasure" of being sentenced to 90 days in Los Angeles County Jail in 1997 (long story, the judge was known to give max sentences for minor things, like my "10 mph over limit" speeding ticket).

Now in LA county, 90 days means 30 days in reality.  And from the minute I was checked in, the presence of gangs was obvious.  There are 3 main "gangs" in the prisons, and you have to affiliate yourself with one for protection.  If you do not become friendly with one of the gangs, you are in trouble.  Especially if you are in one of the "dorm style" lock-ups (IE Oz).

In the dorm, I was 1 of around 60 prisoners.  It was roughly half black, 1/4 white, and 1/4 hispanic.  And there were 3 different gangs you belonged to, depending on your race.  There were "Group Leaders", who assigned cell duties (clean-up, laundry duty, etc), and the tables and living areas were segregated by race.  But this was not done by the gurads, it was done by the prisoners.

The reason for this was to help eliminate racial tension.  The order of things like getting meals was rotated, and you went in groups by race.

But the gangs were also serious.  I remember one black kid that thought he was tough, and tried to cut into line.  The boss of the "Peckerwoods" (white prisoners) complained to the boss of the Blacks, and they talked to him.  When it happened the next time, the other blacks took him off to the side to make him "see reason".  After they hit him around for a few minutes, he stopped being a troublemaker.

I know that the gangs are much more serious in State and Federal prison.  Most of those in County are just doing their time (like I was), or waiting trial and transportation to State and Federal custody.  But it is very true, the guards do not run the prisons, the prisoners do.  And unless dorm and milti-person cells are eliminated, the gangs will always be there.  And I can imagine the screams of the ACLU now if they tried to make virtually every prisoner live in "solitary confinement".

And even that will not do anything.  Believe me, I know.

I had the "pleasure" of being sentenced to 90 days in Los Angeles County Jail in 1997 (long story, the judge was known to give max sentences for minor things, like my "10 mph over limit" speeding ticket).

Now in LA county, 90 days means 30 days in reality.  And from the minute I was checked in, the presence of gangs was obvious.  There are 3 main "gangs" in the prisons, and you have to affiliate yourself with one for protection.  If you do not become friendly with one of the gangs, you are in trouble.  Especially if you are in one of the "dorm style" lock-ups (IE Oz).

In the dorm, I was 1 of around 60 prisoners.  It was roughly half black, 1/4 white, and 1/4 hispanic.  And there were 3 different gangs you belonged to, depending on your race.  There were "Group Leaders", who assigned cell duties (clean-up, laundry duty, etc), and the tables and living areas were segregated by race.  But this was not done by the gurads, it was done by the prisoners.

The reason for this was to help eliminate racial tension.  The order of things like getting meals was rotated, and you went in groups by race.

But the gangs were also serious.  I remember one black kid that thought he was tough, and tried to cut into line.  The boss of the "Peckerwoods" (white prisoners) complained to the boss of the Blacks, and they talked to him.  When it happened the next time, the other blacks took him off to the side to make him "see reason".  After they hit him around for a few minutes, he stopped being a troublemaker.

I know that the gangs are much more serious in State and Federal prison.  Most of those in County are just doing their time (like I was), or waiting trial and transportation to State and Federal custody.  But it is very true, the guards do not run the prisons, the prisoners do.  And unless dorm and milti-person cells are eliminated, the gangs will always be there.  And I can imagine the screams of the ACLU now if they tried to make virtually every prisoner live in "solitary confinement".

Say some dudes want to exploit you.  Is it true you are better off fighting the guys, even if it means getting the living crap stomped out of you, than submitting without a struggle?  I mean, does showing you are tough eventually get you respect even if it doesn't stop bad **** from happeing to you initially?
Did the white guys call themselves the "Peckerwoods" to start with, or did they adopt the name from what the other guys called them?
???

Say some dudes want to exploit you.  Is it true you are better off fighting the guys, even if it means getting the living crap stomped out of you, than submitting without a struggle?  I mean, does showing you are tough eventually get you respect even if it doesn't stop bad **** from happeing to you initially?
Did the white guys call themselves the "Peckerwoods" to start with, or did they adopt the name from what the other guys called them?
???


Well, that depends.  If it comes from the "higher ups" in your own gang, you are best just taking it.  If it comes from members of another gang, you tell your own gang leaders.  Trust me, nobody in prison wants a "race war".

Myself, I was lucky, in that everybody thought I was completely nuts.  :D  When I was picked up, I had a long beard, and long hair.  It took me almost 2 weeks from being picked up (Orange County, traffic warrant) until my seeing the judge.  When I was sent to Super-Maximum Security, the first thing they tend to ask is "what are you in for".  Nobody would believe that I was there for 90 days, for failure to appear on a relatively minor traffic ticket.

Because of my looks, my nickname was wither "David Koresh" or "Unibomber".  From what I was told, the most commonly accepted belief was that I had really beat up 1 (or more) police officers!  Add to the fact that I had a few "flashback nightmares" (from incidents in Panama), and that just made them freak out more.  Nobody gave me trouble, because nobody wanted to take the risk of "pissing off the Marine with delayed-stress disorder".

As far as "Peckerwood" (or "wood" for short), I have no idea where the term came from.  You are either a "Brother", a "Peckerwood", or a "Greaser".  I know that it was a term for "white trash" in the 19'th century.  But how it came to be prison slang, I have no idea.

Well, that depends.  If it comes from the "higher ups" in your own gang, you are best just taking it.  If it comes from members of another gang, you tell your own gang leaders.  Trust me, nobody in prison wants a "race war".

Myself, I was lucky, in that everybody thought I was completely nuts.   :D  When I was picked up, I had a long beard, and long hair.  It took me almost 2 weeks from being picked up (Orange County, traffic warrant) until my seeing the judge.  When I was sent to Super-Maximum Security, the first thing they tend to ask is "what are you in for".  Nobody would believe that I was there for 90 days, for failure to appear on a relatively minor traffic ticket.

Because of my looks, my nickname was wither "David Koresh" or "Unibomber".  From what I was told, the most commonly accepted belief was that I had really beat up 1 (or more) police officers!  Add to the fact that I had a few "flashback nightmares" (from incidents in Panama), and that just made them freak out more.  Nobody gave me trouble, because nobody wanted to take the risk of "pissing off the Marine with delayed-stress disorder".

As far as "Peckerwood" (or "wood" for short), I have no idea where the term came from.  You are either a "Brother", a "Peckerwood", or a "Greaser".  I know that it was a term for "white trash" in the 19'th century.  But how it came to be prison slang, I have no idea.

That might be handy advice if I ever land in the pokey for some unfortunate reason.
I don't exactly cut a menacing figure, but I got pretty good at that Robert Deniro-Travis Bickle-Taxi Driver thing!
;)