Detroit found to be most liberal U.S. city
The Washington Times
08/11/05

Detroit is the most liberal U.S. city while Provo, Utah, is the most conservative, a study of voting patterns indicates.

The list was compiled by the Bay Area Center for Voting Research in California through an examination of voting in 237 U.S. cities with populations of more than 100,000.

"Detroit and Provo epitomize America's political, economic and racial polarization," BACVR Director Jason Alderman said in a release Thursday. "As the most conservative city in America, Provo is overwhelmingly white and solidly middle class. This is in stark contrast to Detroit, which is impoverished, black and the most liberal." Gary, Ind., was found to be the second-most liberal followed by Berkeley, Calif.; Washington; and Oakland, Calif. The group that did the ranking is based in Berkeley, not far from Oakland.

Texas, home to President George Bush, has three of the five most conservative cities, as determined by BACVR, including Lubbock and Abilene in the Nos. 2 and 3 spots and Plano in the fifth spot. Hialeah, Fla., was ranked fourth. BACVR offered no detailed breakdown of its methodology.

Link: http://www.washtimes.com/upi/20050811-072804-4191r.htm

TOP 25 CONSERVATIVE CITIES:

1 Provo, Utah
2 Lubbock, Texas
3 Abilene, Texas
4 Hialeah, Florida
5 Plano, Texas
6 Colorado Springs, Colorado
7 Gilbert, Arizona
8 Bakersfield, California
9 Lafayette, Louisiana
10 Orange, California
11 Escondido, California
12 Allentown, Pennsylvania
13 Mesa, Arizona
14 Arlington, Texas
15 Peoria, Arizona
16 Cape Coral, Florida
17 Garden Grove, California
18 Simi Valley, California
19 Corona, California
20 Clearwater, Florida
21 West Valley City, Utah
22 Oklahoma City, Oklahoma
23 Overland Park, Kansas
24 Anchorage, Alaska
25 Huntington Beach, California

TOP 25 LIBERAL CITIES

1 Detroit, Michigan
2 Gary, Indiana
3 Berkeley, California
4 District of Columbia
5 Oakland, California
6 Inglewood, California
7 Newark, New Jersey
8 Cambridge, Massachusetts
9 San Francisco, California
10 Flint, Michigan
11 Cleveland, Ohio
12 Hartford, Connecticut
13 Paterson, New Jersey
14 Baltimore, Maryland
15 New Haven, Connecticut
16 Seattle, Washington
17 Chicago, Illinois
18 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
19 Birmingham, Alabama
20 St. Louis, Missouri
21 New York, New York
22 Providence, Rhode Island
23 Minneapolis, Minnesota
24 Boston, Massachusetts
25 Buffalo, New York

Report here

http://bakersfield.com/ips_rich_content/100-liberalconservative_big.gif

Provo Utah, home of BYU most conservative?  Why does that not surprise me.  Although West Valley City being #21 does.  That is where I live and there are tons of cities around me that are far more conservative than WVC.

That is where I live and there are tons of cities around me that are far more conservative than WVC.


Do the surrounding cities have at least a population of 100,000?  If not, they weren't counted.

Do the surrounding cities have at least a population of 100,000? If not, they weren't counted.


I am pretty sure the one I am thinking of does.  It is pretty big.  I could be wrong, though.

hmmm...anyone think it's just a coincidence that the list of the most liberal cities in the US can be a near-exact substitute for the list of the cities with the highest crime rates?  hmmmm

hmmm...anyone think it's just a coincidence that the list of the most liberal cities in the US can be a near-exact substitute for the list of the cities with the highest crime rates?  hmmmm

And we know who else lives there, don't we?
;)
Take note
BACVR offered no detailed breakdown of its methodology.

Billy, that is exactly what the America's premier Moonie rag, The Washington Times is implying.  This is the biggest steaming heap of BS I've heard in quite a little while!  The BACVR "study" is a beyond the pale of bad taste, even for TWT.  I'm surprised a fellow as intelligent as GWB didn't see through it.

TWT is just a tool of the Republican party.  The Republican party is desperate to show it is the party of wholesome family values in spite of its record to the contrary.  The study merely takes vote-for-vote as the measure of liberal and conservative.  If your city voted Democrat, it's liberal.  If it voted Republican, it's conservative.  In this ham-handed emotional appeal, the Times wants to telly you good, wholesome things happen in Republican towns, and filthy, criminal things happen in Democrat towns.
Poor people of color are too often withdrawn from the political process altogother.  Other times the Republican Party invents schemes to stop them from exercising their Constitutional right to vote!
However, when poor people and people of color are politically conscientious and are not prevented from voting by Republicans, they have the smarts not to vote Republican.
Thus, people in Detroit, Gary, and Newark do not vote for "conservative" candidates.  It is deceptive and mendacious to sugget it is "liberal" values that made these cities impoverished.  If liberal values made a community poor, my town would be full of beggars and tarpaper shacks.  Amherst, however, boasts some of the highest property values in the state and rising!

As Bill Mahar opined on the Larry King show last night, seventy-nine million people did not vote in the last election.  The Democrats, according to Mahar, need to fish in that pool, instead of the Republican's pool.  Right-wingers are never going to vote for Hillary Clinton, no matter how much she courts them. 
If just ten percent of that 79 million vote straight-ticket Democrat, the GOP is finished.  They know it, and that's why they don't want those people to vote.

But I digress....

hmmm...anyone think it's just a coincidence that the list of the most liberal cities in the US can be a near-exact substitute for the list of the cities with the highest crime rates?  hmmmm


Sorry, but I have to highly dispute you there.

Garden Grove is listed as one of the most conservative, and it is also one of the most violent cities in the Los Angeles area.  My girlfriend used to live there, and she would never leave her house at night.  I have felt safer walking through Inglewood at night then I have walking around Garden Grove in the daylight (we called it "Garbage Grove).

The same with Huntington Beach.  The people that live there are mostly retired.  But on a daily basis it is flooded with "surf punks", making going to the beach there a possibly dangerous event.  Almost every Spring Break they have riots.  About 12 years ago, a kid from Anaheim had a steel pipe shoved through his head during a fight.  ALso a large number that live there are retired military, having bought their houses 20-40 years ago when Huntington Beach was a common place to live when you were stationed at/worked at either Seal Beach, Terminal Island, El Toro, or Tustin (all 4 now closed).

And Berkley is a very large city.  There are slums less then 3 miles from milti-million dollar homes.  I have also lived in Anchorage.  That town has long had a drug and crime problem.

As for the most liberal cities having the highest crime, I have not heard of large crime sprees in Cambridge Ma, or the #2 city Gary, Indiana (singing Gary Indiana, Gary Indiana, Gary Indiana!)

One thing that I do see in common with a lot of the "Most Conservative" cities is that most of them have (or had) military bases in or nearby.  Considering most military tend to be "Pro Defense Spending", I am sure that skews things quite a lot in and of itself.  I know of more then one life-long Democrat that while they were in the service voted Republican.

Detroit found to be most liberal U.S. city
The Washington Times
08/11/05

Detroit is the most liberal U.S. city while Provo, Utah, is the most conservative, a study of voting patterns indicates.




Slightly off topic, but this kinda made me laugh. In The Netherlands, there was a 60s movement called Provo's and it was anything but conservative! ;D

And we know who else lives there, don't we?
;)
Take note
BACVR offered no detailed breakdown of its methodology.

Billy, that is exactly what the America's premier Moonie rag, The Washington Times is implying.  This is the biggest steaming heap of BS I've heard in quite a little while!  The BACVR "study" is a beyond the pale of bad taste, even for TWT.  I'm surprised a fellow as intelligent as GWB didn't see through it.

TWT is just a tool of the Republican party.  The Republican party is desperate to show it is the party of wholesome family values in spite of its record to the contrary.  The study merely takes vote-for-vote as the measure of liberal and conservative.  If your city voted Democrat, it's liberal.  If it voted Republican, it's conservative.  In this ham-handed emotional appeal, the Times wants to telly you good, wholesome things happen in Republican towns, and filthy, criminal things happen in Democrat towns.
Poor people of color are too often withdrawn from the political process altogother.  Other times the Republican Party invents schemes to stop them from exercising their Constitutional right to vote!
However, when poor people and people of color are politically conscientious and are not prevented from voting by Republicans, they have the smarts not to vote Republican.
Thus, people in Detroit, Gary, and Newark do not vote for "conservative" candidates.  It is deceptive and mendacious to sugget it is "liberal" values that made these cities impoverished.  If liberal values made a community poor, my town would be full of beggars and tarpaper shacks.  Amherst, however, boasts some of the highest property values in the state and rising!

As Bill Mahar opined on the Larry King show last night, seventy-nine million people did not vote in the last election.  The Democrats, according to Mahar, need to fish in that pool, instead of the Republican's pool.  Right-wingers are never going to vote for Hillary Clinton, no matter how much she courts them. 
If just ten percent of that 79 million vote straight-ticket Democrat, the GOP is finished.  They know it, and that's why they don't want those people to vote.

But I digress....


but are you really going to argue with me that cities like Detroit, New York, Philly and Newark (among others) aren't predominantly liberal cities?

Sorry, but I have to highly dispute you there.

Garden Grove is listed as one of the most conservative, and it is also one of the most violent cities in the Los Angeles area.  My girlfriend used to live there, and she would never leave her house at night.  I have felt safer walking through Inglewood at night then I have walking around Garden Grove in the daylight (we called it "Garbage Grove).

The same with Huntington Beach.  The people that live there are mostly retired.  But on a daily basis it is flooded with "surf punks", making going to the beach there a possibly dangerous event.  Almost every Spring Break they have riots.  About 12 years ago, a kid from Anaheim had a steel pipe shoved through his head during a fight.  ALso a large number that live there are retired military, having bought their houses 20-40 years ago when Huntington Beach was a common place to live when you were stationed at/worked at either Seal Beach, Terminal Island, El Toro, or Tustin (all 4 now closed).

And Berkley is a very large city.  There are slums less then 3 miles from milti-million dollar homes.  I have also lived in Anchorage.  That town has long had a drug and crime problem.

As for the most liberal cities having the highest crime, I have not heard of large crime sprees in Cambridge Ma, or the #2 city Gary, Indiana (singing Gary Indiana, Gary Indiana, Gary Indiana!)

One thing that I do see in common with a lot of the "Most Conservative" cities is that most of them have (or had) military bases in or nearby.  Considering most military tend to be "Pro Defense Spending", I am sure that skews things quite a lot in and of itself.  I know of more then one life-long Democrat that while they were in the service voted Republican.


the lists dont exactly match up.  There are obviously some cities on the Liberal list that are fine crime-wise and cities on the conservative list that are overrun by crime...

DC is probably the only city on the list here that has the most diverse amount of crime....there's the crime that occurs around New York Avenue and behind Union Station....and the very different crimes that occur in the halls of Congress!  ;)

Sorry, but I have to highly dispute you there.

Garden Grove is listed as one of the most conservative, and it is also one of the most violent cities in the Los Angeles area.  My girlfriend used to live there, and she would never leave her house at night.  I have felt safer walking through Inglewood at night then I have walking around Garden Grove in the daylight (we called it "Garbage Grove).

The same with Huntington Beach.  The people that live there are mostly retired.  But on a daily basis it is flooded with "surf punks", making going to the beach there a possibly dangerous event.  Almost every Spring Break they have riots.  About 12 years ago, a kid from Anaheim had a steel pipe shoved through his head during a fight.  ALso a large number that live there are retired military, having bought their houses 20-40 years ago when Huntington Beach was a common place to live when you were stationed at/worked at either Seal Beach, Terminal Island, El Toro, or Tustin (all 4 now closed).

And Berkley is a very large city.  There are slums less then 3 miles from milti-million dollar homes.  I have also lived in Anchorage.  That town has long had a drug and crime problem.

As for the most liberal cities having the highest crime, I have not heard of large crime sprees in Cambridge Ma, or the #2 city Gary, Indiana (singing Gary Indiana, Gary Indiana, Gary Indiana!)

One thing that I do see in common with a lot of the "Most Conservative" cities is that most of them have (or had) military bases in or nearby.  Considering most military tend to be "Pro Defense Spending", I am sure that skews things quite a lot in and of itself.  I know of more then one life-long Democrat that while they were in the service voted Republican.

There might be something for the military connection. 
You make a good point, in any big city there's going to be a mix.  My point was there is no connection between liberal values and crime, and anybody who says there would be no "ghettoes" in Detroit if everybody voted Republican is delusional.

but are you really going to argue with me that cities like Detroit, New York, Philly and Newark (among others) aren't predominantly liberal cities?




I am going to say the connection between "ghetto" and "liberal" is specious.  The underlying motive is to blame liberal politics for poverty, and absolve those truly responsible--the capitalists who make our economic policies--from the human misery they have wrought.  It's an insolent and sh*tty piece of obfuscation that smacks of Rush Limbaugh, Tucker Carlson, and P.J. O'Rourke.

I am going to say the connection between "ghetto" and "liberal" is specious.  The underlying motive is to blame liberal politics for poverty,

no one said anything about poverty...Im talking about crime

and absolve those truly responsible--the capitalists who make our economic policies--from the human misery they have wrought. 

yeah, because communism doesnt make people want more

It's an insolent and sh*tty piece of obfuscation that smacks of Rush Limbaugh, Tucker Carlson, and P.J. O'Rourke.


PJ O'Rourke?  What does he have to do with this?  He's a humorist, not a political personality...yes, he does political humor...but there's the word: humor....

and contrary to one of his books titles, he's a libertarian, not a Republican. 

no one said anything about poverty...Im talking about crime
And you're living in denial if you think there's no correlation!

yeah, because communism doesnt make people want more
I didn't say anything about communism.  This is not China or Cuba, this is America I'm talking about.  However, in America today we are witnessing the death of capitalism by its own hand.  We don't really have a free market, we have a corporatist state, ie fascism.

PJ O'Rourke?  What does he have to do with this?  He's a humorist, not a political personality...yes, he does political humor...but there's the word: humor....
He is shoulder to shoulder with the Wall Street Journal editorial page on issues of consequence.  Then he tries to be hip.  He reminds me of an investment banker at a rave.  A real jaggoff.  I'm always amazed at just how many people will buy his books and listen to him talk.

and contrary to one of his books titles, he's a libertarian, not a Republican. 

Libertarians are just Republicans who don't pretend to care about the kids.  Aside from hands off pot and porn, the Libs don't speak up on any economic issues in a way that distinguishes them from the GOP.  The Libertarians should despise crony capitalism, such as the government subsidizing the oil industry, and I suppose nominally the do.  However, they're mostly about tax cuts, guns, and axing social services...and they get little argument there fromthe Republicans.

That's what I was about to ask MaxwellSmart.  If he thinks it's BS, then let him make a list of the top 25 most liberal cities with a population of at least 100,000 and see if he doesn't include Boston, San Francisco, Detroit and the District of Columbia.

And you're living in denial if you think there's no correlation!

crime can occur without poverty

He is shoulder to shoulder with the Wall Street Journal editorial page on issues of consequence.  Then he tries to be hip.  He reminds me of an investment banker at a rave.  A real jaggoff.  I'm always amazed at just how many people will buy his books and listen to him talk.

because he's a humorist....or are they not allowed to be right of center?  No one can make fun of the left...no one.....


Libertarians are just Republicans who don't pretend to care about the kids.  Aside from hands off pot and porn, the Libs don't speak up on any economic issues in a way that distinguishes them from the GOP.  The Libertarians should despise crony capitalism, such as the government subsidizing the oil industry, and I suppose nominally the do.  However, they're mostly about tax cuts, guns, and axing social services...and they get little argument there fromthe Republicans.

Have you ever read what the libertarians stand for?  Im a libertarian, and I have to say you're wrong. 

http://www.lp.org/issues/issues.shtml

crime can occur without povertybecause he's a humorist....or are they not allowed to be right of center?  No one can make fun of the left...no one.....
Have you ever read what the libertarians stand for?  Im a libertarian, and I have to say you're wrong. 

http://www.lp.org/issues/issues.shtml

The most destructive crimes are perpetuated by rich people.

I make fun of the "left" all the time.  There's a difference.  PJO tries to be a satirist for the Right.  The problem is the elements of satire do not work when it's the king making fun of the peasants.  I've said it before and I'll say it again.

Yeah, I've read what Libertarians purport to stand for...and observed what they actually DO stand for. 

They're not all bad Maxwell.  The libertarians (aside from marijuana and porn, which you already mentioned) opposed the Iraq war.  I remember seeing some pictures on CNN before the war started with one libertarian holding a sign that said "money for tax cuts, not for war."

The libertarians are economic conservatives and social liberals.

They're not all bad Maxwell.  The libertarians (aside from marijuana and porn, which you already mentioned) opposed the Iraq war.  I remember seeing some pictures on CNN before the war started with one libertarian holding a sign that said "money for tax cuts, not for war."

The libertarians are economic conservatives and social liberals.

Those who don't vote for the Libertarian candidate vote Republican.  I know there are some genuine "Libertarians" out there who recognize--for instance--that big business as well as big government is an instrument of individual repression.  But they are few, and only a few of the few associate themselves with the Libertarian party.
"Money for tax cuts, not for war" says nothing about "individual rights" and everything about selfishness.  Since the Libertarian POV dictates your level of freedom shall be commensurate with the amount of money and property you own, the party is really an outfit for rich white guys who don't want to pay their taxex.
The Libertarian beliefs about "individual rights" and "freedom" are juvenile and philosophically unexamined.