I have only heard the news report that something went wrong where London police shot and killed a Brazillian by mistake and they are profusely apologizing.


SHOULD THEY BE THAT APOLOGETIC AND TAKE THE HEAT?



The latest I've heard is that they saw the guy, HE RAN FROM THEM(a very important point if it's true).
So when they caught up and detained him this all went down.

I've never been outside the US, don't plan to, HOWEVER..I raised that if the POLICE tell me to stop, hold it, don't move ...I DO IT!!


Stop the police blame for once and call it as it is..HE DID NOT STOP WHEN ORDERED..Did he DESERVE to die? Was it a MISTAKE?

It was in his own hands to follow orders.

PLEASE CHIME IN.... :-*

If this person was brazilian, maybe he didn't understand what the was being shouted at him

If this person was brazilian, maybe he didn't understand what the was being shouted at him


News reports say he lived in London for four years. Too many unanswered questions on this one. Was he mentally unbalanced ?

He had been resident in London for three years, so he wasn't a newcomer. I don't understand why he ran when he was challenged, but from all accounts he was thrown to the ground and summarily executed. He wasn't known to police, and he didn't pull a weapon. He simply ran away. That level of deadly force simply cannot be justified.

Anyone going to a foreign country is EXPECTED to know the basics from POLICE ARE THE GUYS IN UNIFORM WITH THE GUNS, you go to them if you are in trouble or need help...


But as earlier mentioned, there was a possible undercover guy involved...

Brutal force yes, but OKAY..I can see admitting to a MISTAKE by thinking he was a terrorist and you wouldn't want to scuffle with one of them because if they were correct, it's them or YOU..... the mistake was being wrong but maybe NOT for killing......is London PD going to change their rules for apprehending suspected terrorists now or how would they handle future suspicions?

Any other ideas?

Sometimes I don't understand your posts, but I will say this: you need to identify the threat correctly before you start killing people. This has made the London police look like idiots. If he had been a suicide bomber, why would he run? Why didn't he just blow himself up on the spot? From what I understand, in most Western countries, the police have to issue a warning before they start shooting, and usually don't put five bullets into an unarmed guy laying on the ground.

I thought the posts were usually clear whether they are opinions or if it is  a law, they would be adhered to..
My earlier posts remain constant involving the death penalty...some people need to be eradicated from human society.

This post is left toquestion as it is currently based on the last report I heard...if it turns out he DIDN'T RUN, he may have had a partner in waiting or chickened out, if he ran - we don't know....witnesses say he ran, and jumped the train entry gate..if they just b;ew him away, didn't identify themselves....there must be some evidence of that.

Some countries are known to shoot at all costs...so not sure if police are to give warnings first EVERYWHERE.

He was a resident , he knew people are suspicious..will someone get shot that way in NY as they check who knows?


If  a new topic could be discussed..I favor 'suicide bomber' profiling..that way we can skip searching old women and kids and go for those that fit a bomber profile as those who complain of 'selective' profiling will have the air taken out of the argument.

     

Still unclear... and what I understand I disagree with

I don't know what the wrongful death statutes are in the UK, but over here the cops could look forward to getting their azzes sued off!

All this brings back memories of the mistaken shooting of Stephen Waldorf, when the police were planning an operation to recapture escaped prisoner David Martin, back in 1983

A report is found on http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/january/14/newsid_2530000/2530649.stm

All this brings back memories of the mistaken shooting of Stephen Waldorf, when the police were planning an operation to recapture escaped prisoner David Martin, back in 1983

A report is found on http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/january/14/newsid_2530000/2530649.stm

Yeah, I vaaaguely remember that.  I think I took note of it because his name was Waldorf, and I went to a Waldorf school.

Anyone going to a foreign country is EXPECTED to know the basics from POLICE ARE THE GUYS IN UNIFORM WITH THE GUNS, you go to them if you are in trouble or need help...


As posted in another thread the police involved were ALL plain clothes officers and according to eye witnesses they did not challenge the man.I can understand why they did what they did concidering he bolted into the underground and may have had a bomb but I maintain five shots to the head at close range consititutes 'too much force in my book'.As I also said in the other thread his family had to identify him by his possessions so you can only imagine what little head there was left.That I would imagine also explains the trauma of the people who had to witness the shooting.

The facts are not clear, so no use starting an arguement.  It seems like you want to justify what they did.  Maybe it was justified and maybe it was not.  At least they said they are sorry it happened.  If they acted wrongly or not, that will come out when it is investigated.  The public always wants to spout off about things before they know the facts.

Some additional information I saw yesterday...

---------------------------------------------------------------

...
"This is a tragedy," Blair said of the shooting. "The Metropolitan Police accepts full responsibility for this. To the family I can only express my deep regrets."


But he defended the officers' shooting to kill, saying they only did it when lives were believed to be at risk.

"It is drawn from experience from other countries, including Sri Lanka. The only way to deal with this is to shoot to the head," Blair said. "There is no point in shooting at someone's chest because that is where the bomb is likely to be," Blair said.

Blair provided additional details Sunday on the events leading up to Menezes' shooting.

Police had been watching the block of apartments on Scotia Road near Stockwell where Menezes was staying and later raided a home there. Relatives said Menezes had left the apartment where he had been living for almost four months with his two cousins and caught a bus to the subway station.

He was followed by surveillance officers as he boarded the bus and went to the station, and officials said his clothing and behavior at the subway stop added to their suspicions. Officers followed him into the station and then ordered him to stop, police said. Witnesses said Menezes ran into a subway car, where officers shot him.

It was unclear why Menezes, who spoke English, did not obey the orders to stop.

Menezes' family said Sunday he could not get ahead at home in Brazil so he went to Britain to eke out a living as an electrician. He was hoping to return home with enough money to buy a small piece of land and settle down for good.

He had recently told family members he would have enough cash in a few years so he would never have to leave Brazil again.

Menezes' cousin Alex Pereira, 28, said he had been working legally in Britain for three years and was thought to have been on his way to repair an alarm system in north London when he was shot.

-----------------------------------------------

The link (as it is today):
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050725/ap_on_re_eu/britain_bombings

He was an electrician working in London - he ran from the Police, hurdled the barriers at the Underground station and ran away despite repeated pleas to stop.  He wasn't shot while being pinned down by Police either.

It has transpired the man had an invalid visa and was scared of being caught. 

Very tragic.
Umm not sure where you got this info from but most of it is wrong.He was pinned down on board a tube train which he had jumped onto and was shot in the back of the head whilst being held down.The police reports and eye witnesses have said as much.There were also no repeated pleas for him to stop.The police say they identified themselves to him at the underground station and he didn't stop.This is disputed by eye witnesses who say the police did not call anything out, indeed one man says the only way they identified themselves was to put on police baseball caps which as the man was running and had his back to them he couldn't see that anyway !
Also according to his family his visa was valid.

#

But wait, if his visa was valid, then why was he running from the police? I've read so many different stories on this, it's hard to straighten out the facts: 1 says the police identified themselves, 1 says they didn't, 1 says the visa was valid, 1 says it wasn't. Whether the police identified themselves or not, why did he run? If I saw people running towards me, my first instinct would be to get out of their way not run from them.???


I don't understand this.  If they are running in your DIRECTION, but they don't look like they are running towards YOU, maybe you get out of their way.  But if a group of strange men looks like they are running after YOU, how do you get out of their way?  Of course you run.

Actually, even if I knew they were police, I might run on instinct.  Imagine a completely honest innocent person walking down the street going about their business, and suddenly they see 4 or 5 policemen RUNNING full speed at them?  Sure, some people would be calm and collected, and would just stand there and put up there hands and think "hmm... there must be some misunderstanding.  We'll get this all straightened out".  But I don't think it is hard to understand somebody hauling ass just on instinct.

First of all, 5 shots to the head, that's a big excessive, what about, subdue and search?

Fine, shoot him then.. NOT 5 FUC*ING TIMES!

The old English Copper on the beat is no more.

I can understand what you guys are saying, but if some masked man entered my house and I wasn't sure if he intended to kill me, whether he was armed, etc... you better believe I'd point my gun at him and tell him to get the "f" out of my house, and if he didn't listen, I wouldn't hesitate for a minute before shooting.

A masked stranger in your house is the same kind of threat as someone running through a train station?  I hope you don't live in Chicago.

Apparently that's what the new system of the London patrols are...shoot to kill rather than be killed...if they need a better way to confirm the threat..maybe they'll add that..but if you're planning on running there..YOU'LL BE EATIN ' IT! Excessive or not.

yep let's make running a capital offense so no one does it anymore... there are far too many people in  good shape and that's gotta change

Apparently that's what the new system of the London patrols are...shoot to kill rather than be killed...if they need a better way to confirm the threat..maybe they'll add that..but if you're planning on running there..YOU'LL BE EATIN ' IT! Excessive or not.


Wow.. this is just too funny.

Ok.. You, the expert, are saying, that the London Police will now shoot anybody that's running.. feel free to elaborate. I assume they'll shoot anybody that's running from then, but come to think of it, some of those joggers look awfully suspicious.. and hey, anybody on a bike! My Gosh, they could go twice as fast, they'll be pulling out the RPG's before too long.

Apparently that's what the new system of the London patrols are...shoot to kill rather than be killed...if they need a better way to confirm the threat..maybe they'll add that..but if you're planning on running there..YOU'LL BE EATIN ' IT! Excessive or not.


Christ!

I'd better not break into a trot for that train tonight, then...!!

As mentioned, if the circumstantial evidence changes/HAS IT..where now they think he didn't run or jump the gate...All views are off as that's why I hate commenting ahead of the final outcome..same with LAPD accused of beating a guy while he was down..I believed they ruled it wa excessive force...

Still I haven't heard London change anything more on their policy to shoot..

So watch the lawsuits begin! :-[

Still I haven't heard London change anything more on their policy to shoot..

So watch the lawsuits begin! :-[


More likely, wait 'til the dust settles and slip an out-of-court settlement under the door...