I thought this topic was a bit too much for the PPP so I put it here.

My question is, do you think that suicide is an act of selfishness?

Is it wrong for friends and loved ones to be bitter or angry towards the voluntarily deceased?

I appreciate all opinions, as long as they are honest.

I think it would be more selfish for me to assume that whatever grief and loss I feel is somehow greater, deeper or more significant than the despair that would impel a loved one to take his/her own life.  Awwww, poor me.  At least I don't feel so bad I feel the need to kill myself to rid myself of the pain.

Most people don't kill themselves because they're bummed out.  People cope as well as they are capable -- for me to pass judgment on someone who for whatever reason just wasn't up to handling whatever life dealt them would be mighty inhuman of me.

A profound sense of grief and loss... even anger at the situation and frustration at not being able to help -- but anger at THEM?  Natural during the grieving process, perhaps.  But as a rational distanced assessment, rather selfish in itself.

IMO, suicide is NOT the answer...however, nobody knows exactly what people are going through that makes the act of killing themselves as their only resort.  I think that there is help out there for people going through horrible things in their life, but I have known of individuals who have been through so much despair in their own lives, that the thought of the future looks nothing but bleak for them.  My heart always goes out to the families and friends that are left behind....they are left feeling helpless and guilty (thinking, if only I would have done, said this...it may not have happened)...however, my heart also goes out to the person that committed suicide....it's such a shame that one person's life had to feel so empty, that this was the only choice that they felt they could make....it's very sad, for all of the involved parties.



Erin

I have known three people who have committed suicide... and all three cases were very different.  The one that stands out though, was one guy I knew years ago... He always seemed sad... and he was ALWAYS putting himself down and moping... most of his friends didn't even want to be around him.. he wanted constant attention, he kept going on about some girl he was in love with, and how she never paid attention to him, etc. and people found it easier to avoid him (stop inviting him places, etc) than to be rude to him by telling him "enough is enough".  sometimes when a person is sad or has alot of problems, their friends are either too busy or they don't want to be brought down by the person's problems.  So they probably feel that nobody will care if they die.  In fact, in two of the three cases, there was probably only one person that could have made them feel better (a love interest), but it didn't happen...  and although I wish those "love interests" had said or done something, I understand it would have been a big burden for them too... 

I think that if someone commits suicide, they are under the impression that no one will care.  I've known people who had many loving people in their lives, and just didn't see it.  Which makes it even more painful for the people left behind.  That's where guilt normally comes in.  Survivors wonder what they could have done differently.  And under most circumstances, there is nothing anyone could have done to prevent such a heartbreaking act.  Normally, if someone goes to such an extreme, things are pretty bad in their life - so much so that they have problems that the people in their life have no idea about. 

I think it's perfectly normal for survivors to feel anger and guilt, even at the person who ended their own life.  As much as we human beings like to think we're rational creatures, sometimes we're not.  It may not be "right" to be angry at the person who died, but like I said, I think it's perfectly normal.  It's hard enough to lose someone you love, but to know it didn't have to be that way can be unbearable.  If anything, my heart goes out to all involved...

 And under most circumstances, there is nothing anyone could have done to prevent such a heartbreaking act.  


I kind of disagree.. to an extent...  I don't know if this is the norm, but with two of the three people I knew, they had fallen so much in love with someone and that love wasn't reciprocated, which eventually led to depression, etc.  So I think there was always one person who could have prevented it... but that is a tough position to be in, I'm sure...

What would you do if you messed around with someone once, and they fell head over heels in love with you, but you didn't really feel anything for them?  And then they started asking "What's wrong with me that you don't love me?" and "What could I do to make you love me, I'll do anything" and they say they can't think of anything but you, and that without your love there is no reason for them to live..

it sounds stupid but these things happen.

I kind of disagree.. to an extent...  I don't know if this is the norm, but with two of the three people I knew, they had fallen so much in love with someone and that love wasn't reciprocated, which eventually led to depression, etc.   So I think there was always one person who could have prevented it... but that is a tough position to be in, I'm sure...

What would you do if you messed around with someone once, and they fell head over heels in love with you, but you didn't really feel anything for them?  And then they started asking "What's wrong with me that you don't love me?" and "What could I do to make you love me, I'll do anything" and they say they can't think of anything but you, and that without your love there is no reason for them to live..

it sounds stupid but these things happen.


I certainly don't want to start any sort of argument here - we just have differing viewpoints.  I was in a very rocky relationship for a very long time with someone who repeatedly told me he'd kill himself if I left him.  Of course I stayed, but over time I came to the realization that if he really wanted to kill himself, he'd do it whether I was around or not.  We split about 5 years ago, and he's alive and well to this day.  I'm sure there have been times where someone has committed suicide over unrequited love, but I honestly think it's rare.  I think you have to have more things going on in your life than rejection from just one person.  Everyone has had their heart broken - most people don't take their lives as a result of it.  Of course there are exceptions, but I honestly feel that in most cases, people have several problems compounding in their lives when they take such an action.  But that's only my opinion...

Whatever might be the straw that breaks the camel's back -- whether it be romantic rejection, or failing out of school, or financial ruin, the desperation of suicide probably indicates a broader issue.  There may be some people who take their lives because of one particular failure, disappointment or tragedy, but I suspect they are in the minority.

Sometimes an unfortunate event is just an unfortunate event, with no one 'at fault'.  Sure -- if reflecting on what more you or anyone else might have done helps you to become a more selfless, loving and concerned person, great.  But I'm not sure what the value would blaming yourself or anyone else, and turning a sad event into something disempowering and ugly.

I certainly don't want to start any sort of argument here - we just have differing viewpoints.  I was in a very rocky relationship for a very long time with someone who repeatedly told me he'd kill himself if I left him.  Of course I stayed, but over time I came to the realization that if he really wanted to kill himself, he'd do it whether I was around or not.  We split about 5 years ago, and he's alive and well to this day.  I'm sure there have been times where someone has committed suicide over unrequited love, but I honestly think it's rare.  I think you have to have more things going on in your life than rejection from just one person.  Everyone has had their heart broken - most people don't take their lives as a result of it.  Of course there are exceptions, but I honestly feel that in most cases, people have several problems compounding in their lives when they take such an action.  But that's only my opinion...




As I was just reading my last post, I realized it didn't quite come out how I meant it... of course, there would have to be other things going on in their lives besides unrequited love... I was just saying that sometimes a certain person is in a position to help, but is honest or doesn't want to mislead the depressed person by telling them what they want to hear...  I've never been in that situation that you mentioned "If you leave i'll kill myself" but I can't imagine the dilemma that would put me in, or the guilt I would feel if anything happened.

So this is permanence, love’s shattered pride.
What once was innocence, turned on it’s side.
A cloud hangs over me, marks every move,
Deep in the memory, of what once was love.

Oh how I realised how I wanted time,
Put into perspective, tried so hard to find,
Just for one moment, thought I’d found my way.
Destiny unfolded, I watched it slip away.

Excessive flashpoints, beyond all reach,
Solitary demands for all I’d like to keep.
Let’s take a ride out, see what we can find,
A valueless collection of hopes and past desires.

I never realised the lengths I’d have to go,
All the darkest corners of a sense I didn’t know.
Just for one moment, I heard somebody call,
Looked beyond the day in hand, there’s nothing there at all.

Now that I’ve realised how it’s all gone wrong,
Gottas find some therapy, this treatment takes too long.
Deep in the heart of where sympathy held sway,
Gotta find my destiny, before it gets too late.

--Joy Division
Twenty-Four Hours

Ian Curtis didn't write the most profound stanzas about suicidality, but his were going through my mind as I was processing that very state of mind.
I was afflicted with severe and chronic depression.  It was more than in the mind.  It poisoned every fibre of my being.  I couldn't eat, couldn't sleep, couldn't even walk without hurting.  It was permanent fatigue, constant nausea, palpitations, and wasting away. 
No hope.  It was like I was racing toward a brick wall at 100 mph and there was nothing I could do about it.  My frightened family couldn't understand.  I wasn't choosing suicide, suicide was choosing me.
Three different times in my life I got to the brink.  Three times I managed to pull back.  The text that was most therapeutic to me was Dr. Viktor Frankl's Man's Search for Meaning.  His book gave me cerebral framework to counteract the suicidal narrative.  However, there was always a flicker of life that never went out.  One dim lantern in the black void was my lifeforce.  It was beyond rationalizations about duty to my loved ones.  I called it the rude will to survive.  It was that primal fight for life that gave me enough strength to drag myself through the months of each episode.  I wish survival filled me with the victor's fire, but it didn't.  Recovery was more like being cast up on the beach and struggling for air.
I can only speak for myself regarding suicidality.  They say the person taking his own life is callous to his loved ones and the fate of his soul.  He is blind and cowardly.  I never for an instant lost the concern for my family nor for metaphysical considerations.  Suicidality was a pathological presence like cancerous cells.  Was the pathology going to grow too strong to resist?  Was it going to force my hand?  In the end it didn't.
I can't speak for those who commit suicide on impulse without the fight.  There are those who do it to escape the consequences of their own iniquities.  Others do it for revenge.  I don't know this kind of shallowness.  I do know I got to a point beyond "right and wrong" and to the point of "To be or not to be.  That is the question."

Yes, I think suicide is the MOST selfish act anyone can commit. They only consider what THEY are feeling, not realizing the pain that they will cause their friends and family. And yes, I think it's perfectly normal to feel anger towards them for putting you through that. I also think it's perfectly normal to feel some guilt as well, but you have to realize that nothing you could've said or done would have changed the way they felt.


You took the words right out of my mouth.  I couldn't have said it better myself.

I was in a very rocky relationship for a very long time with someone who repeatedly told me he'd kill himself if I left him.  Of course I stayed, but over time I came to the realization that if he really wanted to kill himself, he'd do it whether I was around or not.  We split about 5 years ago, and he's alive and well to this day. 


This guy was trying to keep you using a guilt trip-what a pansy. Any guy that tells me that I would ask him if he would like some help.

My sister used to whine that her life was miserable and that she was gonna hang herself, she doesn't whine to me anymore because I asked her if she wanted to get a lend of my rope.
she is still alive and whining to others.

I have no sympathy for people who kill themselves. I watched my father fight for his life, and it makes me angry to hear of healthy people killing themselves.

The sick people want to live and some healthy people want to die. >:(

I just think it's sad for us to feel we have to pass judgement on people who obviously had nothing left.

Suicide is generally a last option (literally, if successful) for a person. I've got as far as starting to cut my wrists before- I've always suffered intermittent depression, but the trigger for this incident was the break-up of my long-term relationship. I felt at the time that anything would be better than the pain I was feeling- I would have gone through with it, had I chosen a better method. I did consider my family & friends, but the pain I was feeling overwhelmed any guilt I felt. Ultimately, I think what I'm trying to say is people desperate enough to kill themselves generally have mental issues which may override normal sensibilities- technically I suppose that is selfish, but I doubt (in most cases) that a person driven to suicide can be 'blamed' for being selfish, as they are probably not conscious that their actions would affect anyone more negatively than themselves. I might add that in my case, I felt that my death would benefit the world as a whole, which gives you an idea of the mental state of worthlessness some suicide candidates experience.

I think it would be more selfish for me to assume that whatever grief and loss I feel is somehow greater, deeper or more significant than the despair that would impel a loved one to take his/her own life.  Awwww, poor me.  At least I don't feel so bad I feel the need to kill myself to rid myself of the pain.

Most people don't kill themselves because they're bummed out.  People cope as well as they are capable -- for me to pass judgment on someone who for whatever reason just wasn't up to handling whatever life dealt them would be mighty inhuman of me.

A profound sense of grief and loss... even anger at the situation and frustration at not being able to help -- but anger at THEM?  Natural during the grieving process, perhaps.  But as a rational distanced assessment, rather selfish in itself.
.

I couldn't have put this better.


I can actually understand suicide in some situations... terminal illness, uncurable amounts of pain... esentially, keeping people alive and suffering for your own sake.

she doesn't whine to me anymore because I asked her if she wanted to get a lend of my rope.
she is still alive and whining to others.

My grandmother knew someone who actually DID kill themself after being told something like this. They left it on the note or something.

There may be some people who take their lives because of one particular failure, disappointment or tragedy, but I suspect they are in the minority.


This is true. Suicidal feelings are a build-up of a lifetime of failure, self-hate, and misfortune, etc. I've heard about people who've failed and claimed they WANTED to kill themself {I hear this a lot from my whiny, EMO friends who would never really do it}, but never actually gone through because of one thing... and even if it seems like one thing, there's always more.

I have no sympathy for people who kill themselves. I watched my father fight for his life, and it makes me angry to hear of healthy people killing themselves.

The sick people want to live and some healthy people want to die. >:(


And you have the knowledge they're healthy HOW?

Keep in mind, the body may be healthy, the mind is not always. And either way, you can't judge them not knowing their situations.

I know what you mean.  I've been there myself.  It was only when I realized what it would do to my family/friends that I called for help.  Luckily, I was still coherent enough to do that.  I guess I based my post above on what I felt and why I didn't go through with it.

I think sometimes, people are in a situation whereby they feel they have no-one to turn to for help. In England, we have a voluntary agency called The Samaritans, who offer help & advice to those in need. I've used them a couple of times before, but found them not to be of much help- the mainstay of their services involve referring you elsewhere to get help, and they're not even allowed to hug you, FCS! Sometimes, when you're feeling low, a hug can be all you desire- doesn't solve your problems, but makes you feel a whole lot better. Suicide is still a massive taboo- seems ridiculous to me that a person can't choose to take their own life without being eternally shamed, religious or not.

I don't quite understand the concept of suicide. I guess that is because I am an optimist and keep thinking "things will get better". The only time the thought even popped into my head was when I was 13-going through puberty, dealing with hormones and such. But, I knew I could never go through with it so I just dealt with things. My point is, I don't understand how people feel so desperate and that things will never change. It is such a foreign concept to me. I do think that people who do commit suicide are selfish-not thinking of others but, I don't think people who terminally ill and ask for assisted suicide are. In that case, they don't want their loved ones to see them deteriorate, or put their lives on hold while caring for the dying-until Mother Nature decides that it is time.




Cat

Sometimes, when you're feeling low, a hug can be all you desire- doesn't solve your problems, but makes you feel a whole lot better.


Ain't that the truth.. what I hate is the times you want a hug so bad and people who supposedly care actually refuse to give you one.. makes you feel like you deserve the bad feeling.

And you have the knowledge they're healthy HOW?

Keep in mind, the body may be healthy, the mind is not always. And either way, you can't judge them not knowing their situations.


I think I get so mad about suicide because when my father was fighting for his life, the person in the next bed (same room) in the hospital was in there because he took a bottle of pills. He got to go home, my dad didn't.

I think about suicide but then I remember how my father loved life and fought for his. so I try and think of what is worth living for and what I have to look forward to.. the only thing i live for is my kids, and I look forward to seeing them grow up, graduate, get married and possibly have grandchildren(in the far future). I also look forward to seeing my brother's @ss hauled back to prison.

I think I get so mad about suicide because when my father was fighting for his life, the person in the next bed (same room) in the hospital was in there because he took a bottle of pills. He got to go home, my dad didn't.

I think about suicide but then I remember how my father loved life and fought for his. so I try and think of what is worth living for and what I have to look forward to.. the only thing i live for is my kids, and I look forward to seeing them grow up, graduate, get married and possibly have grandchildren(in the far future). I also look forward to seeing my brother's @ss hauled back to prison.


From that story, it sounds like that was a "cry for help" suicide attempt... either that, or sometimes after you try, it calmed you down. You really only needed pain to relieve the stress.. that might not make sense, but that's really the only thing that makes sense when you're IN the situation.

But what you said about looking forward, it makes sense... people try to do that.. some people just can't see anything happy that could come for them.. or at least not anything that could KEEP them happy... that's when there's usually a problem just beyond being upset and hurt.. that's where there might be some sort of imbalance.

I think that in most cases suicide is beyond my comprehension.  On the other hand, if I had some incurable disease and was suffering great pain, I might consider it.  Relatedly, if I were incapacitated, with no hope of recovery, by all means, pull the plug.  I have no desire to be a vegetable.  Now, if, like Steven J. Hawking, I could still contribute, by all means allow me to do so.

From that story, it sounds like that was a "cry for help" suicide attempt... either that, or sometimes after you try, it calmed you down. You really only needed pain to relieve the stress.. that might not make sense, but that's really the only thing that makes sense when you're IN the situation.

But what you said about looking forward, it makes sense... people try to do that.. some people just can't see anything happy that could come for them.. or at least not anything that could KEEP them happy... that's when there's usually a problem just beyond being upset and hurt.. that's where there might be some sort of imbalance.


That story wasn't about me, it was about some guy that was in the same room as my dad.

I never tried to kill myself, and I do know what you mean about pain releiving stress, sometimes when I am really angry the only way to calm me down is to break things (I even broke some of my wolf figurines) or to cut myself(not deep enough to hurt me,just enough to feel the sting) to cause some pain. Sometimes that doesn't work, so I inflick even more pain onto myself. (I would rather hurt myself than hurt others, although the last time I was angry I threw something at my hubby and it took some skin off his leg, not good considering he is a diabetic, now it won't heal)

That story wasn't about me, it was about some guy that was in the same room as my dad.

I never tried to kill myself, and I do know what you mean about pain releiving stress, sometimes when I am really angry the only way to calm me down is to break things (I even broke some of my wolf figurines) or to cut myself(not deep enough to hurt me,just enough to feel the sting) to cause some pain. Sometimes that doesn't work, so I inflick even more pain onto myself. (I would rather hurt myself than hurt others, although the last time I was angry I threw something at my hubby and it took some skin off his leg, not good considering he is a diabetic, now it won't heal)


Glad to hear most of it, but there are other ways to manage anger. 

I have no sympathy for people who kill themselves. I watched my father fight for his life, and it makes me angry to hear of healthy people killing themselves.



Everybody doesn't have the same experience of life.  It's cruel to say somebody has no right to feel suffering just because YOU think your life is worth living.  And somebody who wants to kill theirself is not healthy.  There's a lot of things that affect your quality of life, more than whether you are physically sick or not.  If you don't know them, it's none of your business, and if you do know them, you're not much of a friend if you don't even try to understand what there going through.

I have no sympathy for people who kill themselves. I watched my father fight for his life, and it makes me angry to hear of healthy people killing themselves.

The sick people want to live and some healthy people want to die. >:(

I feel I also have to comment on your statement here.People who commit suicide are NOT healthy.Physically maybe, mentally no.Until you have suffered clinical depression I don't think you can comprehend what makes someone take their own life.It IS an incredibly selfish act but you simply don't THINK about anyone else. I didn't consider my family for one single moment when I tried it, I just wanted the pain to end, and yes it is a physical pain even though it is a mental illness.I do thank the lord everyday I didn't succeed and have discovered what an amazing gift life is.I still suffer from deprssion. I call it my black dog that runs silently at my side and every now and then it takes me over but now I know the signs and have ways of coping.In a way though I'm glad I went through what I did because I now love life and live it to the full.

I feel I also have to comment on your statement here.People who commit suicide are NOT healthy.Physically maybe, mentally no.Until you have suffered clinical depression I don't think you can comprehend what makes someone take their own life.It IS an incredibly selfish act but you simply don't THINK about anyone else. I didn't consider my family for one single moment when I tried it, I just wanted the pain to end, and yes it is a physical pain even though it is a mental illness.I do thank the lord everyday I didn't succeed and have discovered what an amazing gift life is.I still suffer from deprssion. I call it my black dog that runs silently at my side and every now and then it takes me over but now I know the signs and have ways of coping.In a way though I'm glad I went through what I did because I now love life and live it to the full.


You put it beatifully right here.

Everybody doesn't have the same experience of life.  It's cruel to say somebody has no right to feel suffering just because YOU think your life is worth living.   And somebody who wants to kill theirself is not healthy.  There's a lot of things that affect your quality of life, more than whether you are physically sick or not.  If you don't know them, it's none of your business, and if you do know them, you're not much of a friend if you don't even try to understand what there going through.


Where have I said that others have no right to feel sympathy? I know I have never said that or do you read what you want?
No I don't think my life is worth living, I only live for my kids. I do understand what people go through (which you would know by reading my other posts on this thread) but I also understand that there are people who can help,You have no right saying that I am not a good friend, when my friends are depressed I talk to them and try to point them in the right direction (therapy) they are the ones qualified to help people not me.

I feel I also have to comment on your statement here.People who commit suicide are NOT healthy.Physically maybe, mentally no.Until you have suffered clinical depression I don't think you can comprehend what makes someone take their own life.It IS an incredibly selfish act but you simply don't THINK about anyone else. I didn't consider my family for one single moment when I tried it, I just wanted the pain to end, and yes it is a physical pain even though it is a mental illness.I do thank the lord everyday I didn't succeed and have discovered what an amazing gift life is.I still suffer from deprssion. I call it my black dog that runs silently at my side and every now and then it takes me over but now I know the signs and have ways of coping.In a way though I'm glad I went through what I did because I now love life and live it to the full.



You put it beatifully right here.




Ok you people are blind  or did my other posts suddenly disappear.

must be the first one because here are my other posts.


I think I get so mad about suicide because when my father was fighting for his life, the person in the next bed (same room) in the hospital was in there because he took a bottle of pills. He got to go home, my dad didn't.

I think about suicide but then I remember how my father loved life and fought for his. so I try and think of what is worth living for and what I have to look forward to.. the only thing i live for is my kids, and I look forward to seeing them grow up, graduate, get married and possibly have grandchildren(in the far future). I also look forward to seeing my brother's @ss hauled back to prison.



That story wasn't about me, it was about some guy that was in the same room as my dad.

I never tried to kill myself, and I do know what you mean about pain releiving stress, sometimes when I am really angry the only way to calm me down is to break things (I even broke some of my wolf figurines) or to cut myself(not deep enough to hurt me,just enough to feel the sting) to cause some pain. Sometimes that doesn't work, so I inflick even more pain onto myself. (I would rather hurt myself than hurt others, although the last time I was angry I threw something at my hubby and it took some skin off his leg, not good considering he is a diabetic, now it won't heal)

Ok you people are blind  or did my other posts suddenly disappear.

I was addressing how well she put suicidal feelings and depression into words.

I was addressing how well she put suicidal feelings and depression into words.


ok, no hard feelings. at least not with you but the girl that calls herself brian :o was saying I said stuff that I didn't.

and I am not saying that I don't understand, in my first post I said that I offered to help, but I forgot to mention , the only one I offered to help was or would be a person that constantly whines with a oh pity me kind of way.(like a couple of certain members on here)

Ah, I understand. Yeah, the whiny people are just attention whores. I've learned to ignore them, and not give them the sympathy they want. They don't want serious advice.. just "Aww, I'm sorry, you'll feel better.".. I offer serious advice, and to people who appear serious.. some condolence and motivation. But not attention whores. Why? 'Cause they're whores.  ;D

Where have I said that others have no right to feel sympathy? I know I have never said that or do you read what you want?
No I don't think my life is worth living, I only live for my kids. I do understand what people go through (which you would know by reading my other posts on this thread) but I also understand that there are people who can help,You have no right saying that I am not a good friend, when my friends are depressed I talk to them and try to point them in the right direction (therapy) they are the ones qualified to help people not me.






I didn't say SYMPATHY.  I said SUFFERING.  But no, you didn't say it that way, so maybe I shouln't have said it that way.  But I do think its cruel to have no sympathy for people who are not trying to hurt anybody, and they are just past their last bit of hope.

It's good that you live for your kids,  but a lot of other people don't feel like they have something to live for.  Even if somebody has kids they might think there better off without a parent who is depressed and hates there life.  That's not that hard to understand.  But if you are depressed you maybe can't even think straight enough to think that way -- it's just painful and you cant take it.

I don't want to argue about it.  I just hate to put down people who are helpless or who don't know how to help thereself.  I think if somebody doesn't get help, it's a shame.  And if we don't have sympathy for people who feel that bad how can they ever get help.  

We are all going to die anyway, but why not try to help each other have a good life if we can, why not.  I don't think sympathy and humanity costs us anything, does it?

I didn't say SYMPATHY.  I said SUFFERING.  But no, you didn't say it that way, so maybe I shouln't have said it that way.  But I do think its cruel to have no sympathy for people who are not trying to hurt anybody, and they are just past their last bit of hope.

It's good that you live for your kids,  but a lot of other people don't feel like they have something to live for.  Even if somebody has kids they might think there better off without a parent who is depressed and hates there life.  That's not that hard to understand.  But if you are depressed you maybe can't even think straight enough to think that way -- it's just painful and you cant take it.

I don't want to argue about it.  I just hate to put down people who are helpless or who don't know how to help thereself.  I think if somebody doesn't get help, it's a shame.  And if we don't have sympathy for people who feel that bad how can they ever get help.  

We are all going to die anyway, but why not try to help each other have a good life if we can, why not.  I don't think sympathy and humanity costs us anything, does it?


sorry I meant to type in suffering, that was a typo.

but have you even read the rest of my post, I do have sympathy for people who are depressed, I try and help my friends get proper help, but a person has to want that help I can't force a person to get help.

to me if they refuse help when offered it then those are the ones that I have no sympathy for.

and I have no pity for people who threaten suicide over and over.

I have no sympathy for people who kill themselves.



This is what I was reacting to.  I'm sorry I took out the rest, please don't accuse me of taking it out of contest, it's just that this is the sentence I meant.  I don't think the other stuff changes this. 

You have a right to feel however you want.  I don't have sympathy for criminals who kill innocent people and then kill thereself when they are surrounded by the police so they don't go to jail, for example, but that's not what most people are talking about here. Thats why that attitude as a general statement just seems cruel to me when we're talking about depressed people who aren't trying to hurt anybody but are just in pain. 

I just want to show you what I was reacting to and where I was coming from.  I understand about people who try to manipulate people to get attention, but I'm not talking about that.  I'm talking about people who are really suicidal and depressed and people who really do it.

This is what I was reacting to.  I'm sorry I took out the rest, please don't accuse me of taking it out of contest, it's just that this is the sentence I meant.  I don't think the other stuff changes this. 

You have a right to feel however you want.  I don't have sympathy for criminals who kill innocent people and then kill thereself when they are surrounded by the police so they don't go to jail, for example, but that's not what most people are talking about here. Thats why that attitude as a general statement just seems cruel to me when we're talking about depressed people who aren't trying to hurt anybody but are just in pain.   

I just want to show you what I was reacting to and where I was coming from.  I understand about people who try to manipulate people to get attention, but I'm not talking about that.  I'm talking about people who are really suicidal and depressed and people who really do it.


I am talking about the ones that refuse help that is offered. Their brain is still working enough to know that how they are feeling is not normal. I know a guy that was acting really weird and was depressed, he knew something was not right and accepted help when it was offered.

Well, its hard to talk about it hypothetically, because everybody's different, and I don't know what people you offered help to that killed thereself anyway.  If you feel like "f--- them, I tried", that is your right.  I feel bad for them for you. 

Well, its hard to talk about it hypothetically, because everybody's different, and I don't know what people you offered help to that killed thereself anyway.  If you feel like "f--- them, I tried", that is your right.  I feel bad for them for you. 


to me depression is like any other life threatening disease, people refuse help for that. My mother has a bad heart and needs surgery without it she will die, but she is refusing to get it done.

People who are depressed know there is something wrong some accept help some don't, the ones that don't lead to suicide.

all people in both situations knows that without help the person refusing will die.

I guess saying that I would have no sympathy was not the right word, it would be sad that they refuse help knowing that without it they would die. I just get angry at people who could live if they get help and refuse to.
My father traveled all over the country seaking help, but he couldn't be helped and he is lying in the ground within a minutes walking distance from my house.

Well, I'm sorry for your grief about your father.

Ok you people are blind  or did my other posts suddenly disappear.

must be the first one because here are my other posts.


No, I was guilty of posting in reply to your first post, the one I quoted  before I read the whole of the thread including the others.However I think it's a good thing that we did all reply because it was a bald statement you made and now you have expanded greatly on your thoughts and it makes more sense.
I'm interested to know why you don't feel your life is worth living except for your kids.That's quite a statement to make.

No, I was guilty of posting in reply to your first post, the one I quoted  before I read the whole of the thread including the others.However I think it's a good thing that we did all reply because it was a bald statement you made and now you have expanded greatly on your thoughts and it makes more sense.
I'm interested to know why you don't feel your life is worth living except for your kids.That's quite a statement to make.



nobody's business why I feel like that, I meant it but I only revealed it because supposedly my life is worth living, even though she don't know sh!t about my life.

nobody's business why I feel like that, I meant it but I only revealed it because supposedly my life is worth living, even though she don't know sh!t about my life.
No offense meant I just thought as you posted it you were comfortable talking about it.I won't ask anymore.