Since it's about politically incorectness & old cartoons that featured  racial stereotypes that are deemed offensive today, I like to post this topic.

And as a Hispanic, I enjoyed watching Speedy Gonzales cartoons on Nickelodeon in the '90's  and several WWII cartoons like "Bltz Wolf".

If you're offended, don't buy it. Which I find it strange since  it's OK to show "Crank Yankers", which has a mentally challenged puppet, but not OK to air stuff from the '40's, which was a different time, like on late night, there's many Looney Tunes fans & animation buffs that are into them, which most should be looked at in it's proper historical context.

Though one Speedy cartoon did appear on the "Looney Tunes Golden Colelction Vol 1" and the "Looney Tunes Spotlight Collection" set.   :D  8)

The same for the crickett jazz band on "Woodland Cafe", from "Disney Classic Cartoon Favorites: Extreme Music Fun", which isn't even that racis since all the characters are bugs, the jazz band just played a catchy song with some nonsense lyrics that are no different than "Sussudio", a catchy Phil Collins song, or any rap song with words like "Jiggy" or  the annoying "Whoomp! (There It Is)" And the suicide gag from "Donald's Dilemma" is intact. Good  to see those toons censored on DVD, and I doubt that "the worst" would be on the bargain discs.

"Recall all Racist Mexican Stamps"
http://www.sptimes.com/2005/07/01/Opinion/Recall_racist_Mexican.shtml

Similar article, about Memin Penguin, a comic that dates back the '40's that's still popular in Mexico, the characters resemble racial stereotypes like the maid from old "Tom & Jerry" cartoons

"Understanding the Memin Penguin Argument"

Warning: This article contain racial images that are consider  offensive by today's society

http://narcosphere.narconews.com/story/2005/7/11/195836/388



I'll write my opnions later...


Any thoughts? Good or Bad

This is something that I am not sure if we even have a right to complain about.

It is because what Mexico chooses to do (or not do) is their own right.  It is their country.  We have no right to throw out morals at them, simply because some people up here may be offended.

While it may appear offensive, blacks in Mexico do not appear to be offended.  Especially if it is true, and this was a positive role model in their culture.  And while some of those posts does mention some "racist cartoons", there are many more that are not even mentioned.

While some movies like "Song Of The South" are banned because of perceived racism, nobody talks about the crows in "Dumbo", clearly stereotypical.  Also never mentioned are Heckyl & Jeckyl.  And watch some of the old Betty Boop shorts.  Racism can be found anywhere, if that is what you are looking for.

There is a brand of Toothpaste from Japan that until fairly recently was called "Darkie".  It featured the stereotypical "Blackface Minstral" on the box.  Nobody there thought anything of it.  But when Colgate bought the company, they quickly changed the name to "Darlie", and replaced the "Blackface" with a more artistic version of a man in a tophat, what could be of any race.  Interestingly enough, in China the brand is still called "Haak Yahn Gou", or "Black Man Toothpaste".  And in those areas of the world, "Blackface Toys" are still popular.  Sanrio (the "Hello Kitty" people) only a few years ago made one that was intended to be sold only in Japan, but somehow got inserted into a US Catalog.  The line was quickly dropped.

And interestingly enough, it is very collectable here in the US.  Oprah has a huge collection of Blackface (I saw her proudly showing it off in an interview years ago).  So does Whoopi Goldberg, Bill Cosby, and James Avery.

http://www.diynetwork.com/diy/co_antiques/article/0,2033,DIY_13740_2278105,00.html

While we may find it offensive, that does not give us the right to criticize them over it (unless the intent was to be offensive).  Were the cartoons made during the time of WWII offensive?  Yes.  Were they stereotypical in their treatment of the Japanese?  Yes.  But remember, we were at war with them at the time, they attacked us first.  And also don't forget, they were equal in their treatment of Germans and Italians also.  If you don't believe it, check out "Donald Duck In Nutzi Land".  This is the short where "Der Fuehrer's Face" came from (which was later imortalized by Spike Jones).  This movie won the Oscar in 1943 for "Animated Short Subject", but has been unavailable until recently when it was released with a DVD of WWII era Disney shorts.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0035794/combined

And to be fair, the Axis were just as harsh in their treatment of us in their own films.

I myself, I do not find most "Stereotypes" offensive, as long as it was not the intent to offend.  And when you come right down to it, are not those stereotypes still used today?  Watch "Scary Movie", "In Living Color", "Eddie Murphy: Raw", any "Kid & Play" movie, the list goes on.  It could very easily say that a large number of those characters were "Stereotypically Offensive", but since that was not the intent, nobody said anything about it.

I happen to like several WWII cartoons, though haven't seen "Donald Duck In Nutzi Land", but seen "Daffy the Commando"  and "Blitz Wolf", which I find funny. The same for recent shows & movies you've mentioned like "In Living Color".  Also the Porky Pig cartoon "Robinson Crusoe Jr.", which featured a Roschester caricature & cannibals, but had funny gags.

Personally, there's some racial cartoons I've seen that are actually good, bad, or just boring.


"All This & Rabbit Stew", for example.

I have this on a public domain tape and it's not much different than any Bugs cartoon, which he outsmarts the hunter., which makes it a typical Bugs Bunny cartoon. For the ending, I remember a Bugs cartoon that took place in the gold ruch which he gambles a white person...also not different, IMO.

Worse: Haven't seen any... Maybe if I find the Disney "On The Front Lines" DVD set at a library or someplace...

Where does racism lie?  In the intent, or in the interpretation?

In Living Color was mostly black people playing most of the roles, so if they had a stereotype person in some skit, they also had a lot of other black characters too.  The minorities I know don't pretend there aren't negative people in their race, they just get frustrated when the negative image is so common that they are main thing people think of when they think of that race.  A lot of people don't know enough people of other races well enough that they can stop thereself from thinking in stereotype terms.

Can you give an example?  When a white person makes fun of a white people, that doesn't make white people look bad.  But when a black person makes fun of black people, sometimes people think it makes all black people look bad.  Minorities get frustrated by this.  So many times, the thing a minority does means something about their people, even to people who aren't racists or don't think of thereself that way.  But non-minorities can be good or bad as individuals and don't have to worry about every other non-minority getting a bad rap.

Which is why some minority people cringe when they hear jokes like that, even when they themselves think they're funny. 

To what extent should one stifle one's sense of humor, lest one feed into the ignorance of another? 

To what extent should we each take responsibility for our own ignorance, and not 'blame' someone else just for making a joke? 

Is it really that difficult for us to recognize when we're making assumptions about an entire race based on relatively few images? (few, relative to the entire population). 

I realize that not everyone lives in Chicago, LA or New York, but given the variety of communication vehicles in contemporary society, and the relative variety of representations of different peoples in the media (though admittedly, there is a way to go), it seems to me that those of us using stereotypical images to form our sense of an entire people are engaging in a bit of willful ignorance.

I just skimmed this, but I have to agree with Mushroom, and add that since Mexican cultute is so different from ours, and therefore images carry much different messages there than they would here, it is presumptuous for us (as racist as we still are) to jump on Mexican postage stamps (of all things).  I'vs said this before, and I'lol say it again, its not prejudice that's the problem, its the racism built into our institutional fabric which denies people of color access to the advantages that WASPs take for granted.  As a Puerto Rican I couldn't care less if you don't like me or refer to my with epithets in private (in publicis another matter), just don't discriminate against me.

I don't remember the exact jokes, but Lopez talks about his family's "low riders" and how they get into the country.  Rock's is the same type of thing.  I realize it's meant to be funny, but if this is the extent of exposure some people get to these nationalities, you can't really blame them for having stereotypical images.  I grew up in a town with quite a few Hispanics, but only 1 African-American family so the extent of my "knowledge" of blacks was limited to Eddie Murphy's comedy acts, "The Fresh Prince of Bel Air" and a few SNL skits.  When I went away to college, I was called a "cracker" and had NO IDEA that it was a negative thing.  There are still small towns in this country where kids are growing up with the same type of "education" about minority groups.


But I don't understand how Eddie Murphy or any black person shapes anyone's view of what 'black culture' is. Even if there are no black families in a particular town, there's often the odd teacher, dentist, bus driver, shop owner... something. 

But even conceding the possibility that someone has really, truly never actually personally encountered another 'black' person in their life, how could they not have at least heard or seen something, somewhere about (just to name the obvious) Martin Luther King or Malcolm X, or Bill Cosby, or Thurgood Marshall, or Ella Fitzgerald or Rosa Parks...  how could they have not at some point seen or heard of 'Good Times' or 'The Jeffersons' or 'The Flip Wilson Show' or seen enough of something to know that black people aren't some monolithic group.

Are there really a lot of people going around thinking that most black people are young, funny good-looking millionaires?  ;)

But I don't understand how Eddie Murphy or any black person shapes anyone's view of what 'black culture' is. Even if there are no black families in a particular town, there's often the odd teacher, dentist, bus driver, shop owner... something. 

But even conceding the possibility that someone has really, truly never actually personally encountered another 'black' person in their life, how could they not have at least heard or seen something, somewhere about (just to name the obvious) Martin Luther King or Malcolm X, or Bill Cosby, or Thurgood Marshall, or Ella Fitzgerald or Rosa Parks...  how could they have not at some point seen or heard of 'Good Times' or 'The Jeffersons' or 'The Flip Wilson Show' or seen enough of something to know that black people aren't some monolithic group.

Are there really a lot of people going around thinking that most black people are young, funny good-looking millionaires?  ;)


I know it's going to come as a shock, but I agree with Leo Jay. 

I live in Utah, and I'm fairly certain that there were about 5 black people in the state when I was a kid.  (It has since gotten a LOT better and more diverse, but only in the last 10 years or so.)  Anyway, I may not have known a lot of black people personally, but I was raised on Sesame Street, the Cosby Show, and Oprah.  Growing up I was keenly aware of stereotypes, and knew very well that they didn't have anything to do with an entire group of people.  I think people are as ignorant and racist as they want to be. 

I know it's going to come as a shock, but I agree with Leo Jay.

I live in Utah, and I'm fairly certain that there were about 5 black people in the state when I was a kid. (It has since gotten a LOT better and more diverse, but only in the last 10 years or so.) Anyway, I may not have known a lot of black people personally, but I was raised on Sesame Street, the Cosby Show, and Oprah. Growing up I was keenly aware of stereotypes, and knew very well that they didn't have anything to do with an entire group of people. I think people are as ignorant and racist as they want to be.



Its hard to argue with that.  But somebody will I am sure.  I think I only know one Mexican, but I wouldn't ever assume that his family drive around in lowriders and dance around their house in sombreros singing 'I Yi Yi Yi'.  Not that there would be anything wrong with it if they did, anyway.

Its hard to argue with that.  But somebody will I am sure.  I think I only know one Mexican, but I wouldn't ever assume that his family drive around in lowriders and dance around their house in sombreros singing 'I Yi Yi Yi'.  Not that there would be anything wrong with it if they did, anyway.


To me, at least of late (since the Civil rights movment) the entertainment media has not been the problem.  The major problem has been  the news media focus, almost exclusive, on black crime. 


I know it's going to come as a shock, but I agree with Leo Jay.

I live in Utah, and I'm fairly certain that there were about 5 black people in the state when I was a kid. (It has since gotten a LOT better and more diverse, but only in the last 10 years or so.) Anyway, I may not have known a lot of black people personally, but I was raised on Sesame Street, the Cosby Show, and Oprah. Growing up I was keenly aware of stereotypes, and knew very well that they didn't have anything to do with an entire group of people. I think people are as ignorant and racist as they want to be.




I'm sure the overwhelming majority have heard of those you mention but that isn't "black culture", that isa black people functioning in the white world.  Nothing wrong there ast all, just not black culture.  As an undergraduate I worked every summer in a factory and hung around with several black guys.  By the second summer they trusted me enough to socialize out of work.  That was an introduction to at last part of black culture, and it was nothing like Cosby.  It was much more "sharp edged, more witty, more playful, more ireverant, and more full of life than anything you saw on TV.  It was, in fact, more like tropical Latino culture.

That was an introduction to at last part of black culture, and it was nothing like Cosby.  It was much more "sharp edged, more witty, more playful, more ireverant, and more full of life than anything you saw on TV.  It was, in fact, more like tropical Latino culture.



Why do Oprah and Bill Cosby not represent black culture?  Oprah practically made it okay for white women to start calling each other "girlfriend..."  Geez, black women hardly even use the term anymore, its cultural cachet having been squandered from overuse.  ;)

And there were symbols of cultural identification ALL OVER the Cosby show -- from the predominantly-black-college sweatshirts, to the Romare Bearden paintings on the walls, to his love of jazz... not to mention the speech patterns and mannerisms, particularly of the parents in their more relaxed or intimate moments.

But how sad is the implication that someone can represent "black culture" if they listen to Coolio, but not if they listen to Coltrane; if they are factory workers, but not if they are Morehouse- or Spelman-educated professionals; if they're sharp-tongued, fun-loving, "whasaaaap!" types, but not if they're more reserved in their choices of entertainment and self-expression.

Not that anyone really need concern themselves with trying to define anything as elusive and broad as "black culture" anyway.  Anyone who's black represents black culture.  Period. 

But that's irrelevant.  The point -- the obvious point -- is that to think you can form an impression of ANY people at large just because you saw some silly comedian, or hung out with a few factory workers one summer during college is just... sad. 

Sad, I tell you!

WAKE UP, PEOPLE!    ;)

As a Hispanic, I don't really care. 

Some you probably know that I tend to post these cartoon threads, because I like to bring up that they exist since I'm tired of seing some of them ignored and swept under the rug.

I laugh at anything I find funny and well written...


And I know that cartoons are exagerrations, like those classic Hollywood caricatures in cartoons ("Hollywood Steps Out". "Slick Hare").

Why do Oprah and Bill Cosby not represent black culture?  Oprah practically made it okay for white women to start calling each other "girlfriend..."  Geez, black women hardly even use the term anymore, its cultural cachet having been squandered from overuse.  ;)

And there were symbols of cultural identification ALL OVER the Cosby show -- from the predominantly-black-college sweatshirts, to the Romare Bearden paintings on the walls, to his love of jazz... not to mention the speech patterns and mannerisms, particularly of the parents in their more relaxed or intimate moments.

But how sad is the implication that someone can represent "black culture" if they listen to Coolio, but not if they listen to Coltrane; if they are factory workers, but not if they are Morehouse- or Spelman-educated professionals; if they're sharp-tongued, fun-loving, "whasaaaap!" types, but not if they're more reserved in their choices of entertainment and self-expression.

Not that anyone really need concern themselves with trying to define anything as elusive and broad as "black culture" anyway.  Anyone who's black represents black culture.  Period. 

But that's irrelevant.  The point -- the obvious point -- is that to think you can form an impression of ANY people at large just because you saw some silly comedian, or hung out with a few factory workers one summer during college is just... sad. 

Sad, I tell you!

WAKE UP, PEOPLE!    ;)


You miss the subtlty of what I wrote, and I failed to express the extent to which I was brought into working class black culture.  And it wasn't just for the summer.  After I was accepted, it was for more the five years, during college and after I graduated.  I wanted to marry a black woman - she turned me down.  Since my post has caused confusion I will elaborate.

In any diverse, multi-cultural society, for minorities to succeed they almost have to adapt at least some of the trappings of the dominant culture.  Cosby did, as did Operha, because they were in the main stream media.  Miles, Coltrain, Odetta, Leadbelly (my fav LB ture is Bourgeois Blues), or Robeson didn't have to because their greatness went unrecognized until they were dead, or they were accepted because their genious drew so heavilly on their culture.  I think a good analogy is the culture war now going on in France, where many are resisting the "McDonalds-ization" of French culture. 

Clearly, forming steryotypes based on limit exposure is a bad idea, but it seems to me that accepting "The Cosby Show" as an example of "black culture" is doing just that.

I would add that the culture of black factory workers in New Jersey is clearly not the same as that of black share croppers in Alabama, except maybe as a dirivitive. 

Bottom line it is not the business of the NAACP or whatever other United States organizations are all bent out of shape over it.

It is a Mexican issue.  Why should Mexicans care what "African Americans" think?  They should worry about what Mexicans (and that includes "African Mexicans") think.

As an AMERICAN, I could care less about the racial propriety of postage stamps in Mexico, or while we are at it, ANY civil matter in a foreign country, however repugnant it may seem, unless it presents a physical threat to the security of the United States of America.

That's why there are different countries... so that peoples/nations/etc can coexist with varying laws, mores, and customs.

But the NAACP is not a government organization, so what causes they take on is not anybodys business except the members and the board.

But 'black culture' itself (I'm not talking about African culture or Carribean culture) is itself an adaptation to the 'dominant' culture.  So I don't get the logic that someone doesn't reflect 'black' culture if they're operating in the context of a 'dominant' culture.  (And who the hell is supposed to be 'dominating' Oprah anyway?  It's her world and we're just visiting...)

Obviously, what is commonly known as 'black culture' exists only because the native culture was uprooted (some voluntarily, some not) and forced to adapt to a new one.  Spirituals wouldn't exist but for the transplantation of a people from their native culture.  Neither, by extension would jazz.  But any reasonable person would consider them both to reflect black culture. 

And yes, Cosby the man and Cosby the show do reflect black culture.  As does Oprah.  As do Coolio, Coltrane and the other examples I referenced.  I didn't mean that any one example represented it and the others didn't.