http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-1630544,00.html

Seems that now Australia is all in an uproar about this case.  Schapelle Corby, a 27 year old female surfer was caught entering the Indonesian island of Bali with 4.1 Kilograms of pot.  Unlike many "civilized" nations, most of Asia still has harsh penalties for drug possession.  For those old enough to remember, Paul McCartney was facing similar penalties for possessing just a few joints in Japan in the 1980's.

Myself, I have no pity for her.  For one reason, she was very very stupid.  WHen you take anything illegal into another country, you are at the mercy of their judicial system.  Just like if somebody from the Middle East came here and beat his wife.  What is acceptable there is not acceptable here.

And don't forget, we are not talking about just "a few joints".  4.1 kilograms is over 9 pounds of pot.  That is nothing but an amount for distribution.  She is a drug trafficker, nothing less.

And it is nice to see that at least some countries are not suffering from a horrible lapse of morality.  If nothing else, this gal should be in jail for gross stupidity.

20 weeks might be reasonable... 20 years is just ridiculous

20 weeks might be reasonable... 20 years is just ridiculous

yeah 20 YEARS!!!
thats crazy

Well, apparently there's some question about whether she actually did the deed.  She claims the weed was stuffed into her baggage by the baggage handlers.  And supposedly, they do have a problem over there with corrupt baggage handlers... though why a baggage handler would want to frame some random tourist is beyond me...

Well, apparently there's some question about whether she actually did the deed.  She claims the weed was stuffed into her baggage by the baggage handlers.  And supposedly, they do have a problem over there with corrupt baggage handlers... though why a baggage handler would want to frame some random tourist is beyond me...


As someone who lives here I dunno where the comment about having a problem with corrupt bagage handlers has come from  :o  Not to say that there 'may not be' a problem, it is just that I doubt that it is any more or less widespread than in the US or Britain for example...

And the suggestion is not that she had been framed by anyone. 

The overriding sentiment here seems to be that no-one is disputing the stuff was in her bag.  A lot of stuff.  It is very hard to believe that any right thinking person (especially an Australian, as we have all been aware for a great number of years of Indonesia's stance on drugs, and the penalties for importing them) would simply waltz through their customs area with a whole bag full of the stuff.

It is not being suggested that a baggage handler framed her.  Rather, that one simply used her bag, at random, to put the stuff in - presumably to be taken from her at some later stage.

In the words of a certain Lee Harvey Oswald :

"I am a patsy"    (Patsy : " A person easily taken advantage of, cheated, blamed, or ridiculed")

Under Indonesian law, you are required to 'prove your innocence'.  Source : Paul Wilson, Professor of Criminology, Bond University :

http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2005/s1333794.htm

So I make an analogy that I think most people can relate to.  Remember in school ?  The teacher says "Ok FussBudget, I heard you talking in class, go and stand in the corner" (or clean the blackboard dusters, or some other terrible sentence).  And remember how unjust it all was, if it hadn't been you ?  And no amount of reasoning or apparently valid defence did any good because the teacher was in a position where they couldn't back down because they would lose credibility ?

And remember how hard done by you felt ?  The alleged crime is vastly different, and so is the feeling of being hard done by.  Very different.

though why a baggage handler would want to frame some random tourist is beyond me...

They're not trying to frame a random tourist: the scam is to stick the drugs into the bag of some unsuspecting oik then have your buddy recover it once the carrier has got through customs.  I read recently of another scam where they'd plant a smallish amount (and when it comes to smuggling, 4 kilos of pot counts as a small amount) on pretty much anybody when the drug dog was working, wait till the dog had jumped on the decoy bag, then walk through with the main load while the poor sod was surrounded by excited customs narks wanting an arrest.

Even if she is guilty, 20 years for 4kg of pot is utterly ridiculous, though.

Even if she is guilty, 20 years for 4kg of pot is utterly ridiculous, though.


If she was busted in the US, that may be right.  But don't forget, this is not.  Remember "Midnight Express".

And 9 pounds is hardly a "small amount".  I would find it hard to believe that she would not notice that in her bags.  I know that if somebody added almost 10 pounds of weight (and bulk) to my baggage, I would sure as hell notice it.

Here is a clip from a US State Department web site:

* A number of countries, including the Bahamas, the Dominican Republic, Jamaica, Mexico and the Philippines, have enacted more stringent drug laws which impose mandatory jail sentences for individuals convicted of possessing even small amounts of marijuana or cocaine for personal use.

* Once you leave the United States, you are not covered by U.S. laws and constitutional rights.

* Bail is not granted in many countries when drugs are involved.

* The burden of proof in many countries is on the accused to prove his/her innocence.

* In some countries, evidence obtained illegally by local authorities may be admissible in court.

* Few countries offer drug offenders jury trials or even require the prisoner''s presence at his/her trial.

* Many countries have mandatory prison sentences of seven years or life, without the possibility of parole for drug violations.

Source:  http://travel.state.gov/travel/living/drugs/drugs_1237.html


In short, anybody who takes drugs overseas is a moron.  And I have seen this firsthand.  I have seen somebody sentenced to 15 years in Japan simply based on a urinalisys test being positive.  Just because it is legal (or ignored) here, does not mean it is legal there.  And I just can't believe that somebody planted 9 pounds of dope in her luggage.  If it was a smaller amount maybe, but not 9 pounds.

But hey, let's flip the arguement.  In many areas of the Middle East, spouse abuse is legal.  So why should complain when they come here and beat their wife?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-1630544,00.html

Seems that now Australia is all in an uproar about this case.  Schapelle Corby, a 27 year old female surfer was caught entering the Indonesian island of Bali with 4.1 Kilograms of pot.  Unlike many "civilized" nations, most of Asia still has harsh penalties for drug possession.  For those old enough to remember, Paul McCartney was facing similar penalties for possessing just a few joints in Japan in the 1980's.

Myself, I have no pity for her.  For one reason, she was very very stupid.  WHen you take anything illegal into another country, you are at the mercy of their judicial system.  Just like if somebody from the Middle East came here and beat his wife.  What is acceptable there is not acceptable here.

And don't forget, we are not talking about just "a few joints".  4.1 kilograms is over 9 pounds of pot.  That is nothing but an amount for distribution.  She is a drug trafficker, nothing less.

And it is nice to see that at least some countries are not suffering from a horrible lapse of morality.  If nothing else, this gal should be in jail for gross stupidity.

Well, it's always sickening to me how you right-wingers get off on saying "I have no pity for...," and "I don't feel sorry for...," and "so-and-so deserves it" every time somebody encounters misfortune (unless, of course, that person is a Republican, a church-goer, or a gun-owner).  It reveals so much about the mean-spiritedness which is the heart and soul of conservatism. 
I enjoy a puff or two now and again, does that make ME an immoral person?  I suppose you would like to see stoning-to-death as the sentence for adultry!  "Moral lapse" may azz!  The real moral lapse in America is the complicity of the citizenry with a mendacious and kleptocratic government contolled by the oil companies!

On the other hand, I don't know what she was thinking entering an Islamic nation carrying drugs--nine pounds of pot, no less.  Any "Let's Go" kind of guide will tell you straight up:  if you get busted for drugs in another country, you will face that country's justice system.  Indonesia is not the other side of the world from Australia, either.  It's right nextdoor.  Aussies go over there on holiday all the time. 
Maybe this Aussie tennis player thought the oasis of celebrity would follow her to all corners of the Earth and provide her with exemption from harsh realities.  Who knows?

I do have pity for her, ignorance and all, and I hope she gets off the hook.  You can bet she'll never try something so stupid again!

Even if she is guilty, 20 years for 4kg of pot is utterly ridiculous, though.


You think that, then you see what strict penalties for people caught dealing drugs can do.  In the state of New York they passed a strict mandatory penalty for anyone caught selling any illegal drugs (wheather it be pot, meth, cocaine, etc.)  It was something like a mandatory 15-20 years for getting caught, no exceptions.  The murder rate in the state of New York has thus fallen dramatically.  It's no coincidence.

any proof of that Ny law?... i find that hard to believe

And 9 pounds is hardly a "small amount".  I would find it hard to believe that she would not notice that in her bags.  I know that if somebody added almost 10 pounds of weight (and bulk) to my baggage, I would sure as hell notice it.



The drugs were stashed inside a bag that also contained her surfboard. Because a surfboard doesn't fit in the cabin of a plane, it has to be checked through oversize luggage and stored in the hold. She didn't see the bag from the time she checked it in in Brisbane until she claimed it in Bali. It passed through two airports in that time. Anyone working in baggage handling could have put something in there and she wouldn't have known. It's not like she was carrying it the whole time. If you had been following this story since it began in October instead of just reading one article about it after the verdict was brought down, you might have a different view on this. She was caught with drugs, that's true, but there's a mountain of evidence to suggest she was set up for this, and that the drugs weren't even meant to leave Australia in the first place. The real crime here is that the Indonesians had decided she was guilty before she even went to trial. The judges on the case even admitted that in 500 cases like this brought before them, they have convicted every single one. In the US, the UK and Australia, the legal system considers you innocent until proven guilty. In other countries, you're guilty unless you can prove your innocence. And then, even if you can, you're still guilty.

any proof of that Ny law?... i find that hard to believe


It's from a biased source that seeks to end all drug laws (America's socialist wokers' party), but here you go:

June 23, 2004

THE NEW York state legislature failed again this June to make changes in the state’s Rockefeller drug laws, even though nearly all lawmakers agree that they are draconian. The laws--passed in the 1970s at the insistence of Gov. Nelson Rockefeller--impose mandatory minimum sentences for all kinds of drug offenses. The mandatory sentence for possession of as little as four ounces--or selling as little as two ounces--is 15 years to life. Smaller amounts still carry mandatory sentences of five years or more, and judges aren’t allowed to intervene to lower them.

Read more here.

I do have pity for her, ignorance and all, and I hope she gets off the hook.


It sure doesn't look like she is getting off the hook.  :\'( ::)

Maybe she knew there was weed in that bag, maybe she didn't  Seems like the Balinese azzholes don't much care either way.  Do yourselves a favor, folks, if you're going on an adventure holiday, skip Indonesia.  The place has breathtaking natural beauty, but it's one of those corrupt third world hellholes.  It could blow at any time--politically OR geologically!
::)

As Maxwell said, i think this is more ignorance than anything else.

It's fairly obvious she was going to supply but face it. It was Marijuana.. this is not something that is gonna kill anybody.

She shouldn't get 20 years, but i think a breif spell in Jail in Bali would do her the world of good.

Of course, if it were Heroine, Meth etc.. then it would be a different story alltogether.

She says it was planted on her, but a nine pound bundle doesn't sound like something to me that could have been slipped into her luggage from somebody's pocket.  Also, wouldn't she have noticed the extra weight?

I don't feel sorry for her, and personally I'm surprised this even made newspapers.



GWB, read the whole thread, she wasn't carrying it :

Powerslave's post sums it up, and there is mine above.  We have been bombarded with this for the last few months :


The drugs were stashed inside a bag that also contained her surfboard. Because a surfboard doesn't fit in the cabin of a plane, it has to be checked through oversize luggage and stored in the hold. She didn't see the bag from the time she checked it in in Brisbane until she claimed it in Bali. It passed through two airports in that time. Anyone working in baggage handling could have put something in there and she wouldn't have known. It's not like she was carrying it the whole time.

If you had been following this story since it began in October instead of just reading one article about it after the verdict was brought down, you might have a different view on this.

She was caught with drugs, that's true, but there's a mountain of evidence to suggest she was set up for this, and that the drugs weren't even meant to leave Australia in the first place. The real crime here is that the Indonesians had decided she was guilty before she even went to trial. The judges on the case even admitted that in 500 cases like this brought before them, they have convicted every single one. In the US, the UK and Australia, the legal system considers you innocent until proven guilty. In other countries, you're guilty unless you can prove your innocence. And then, even if you can, you're still guilty.


and mine :


The overriding sentiment here seems to be that no-one is disputing the stuff was in her bag.  A lot of stuff.  It is very hard to believe that any right thinking person (especially an Australian, as we have all been aware for a great number of years of Indonesia's stance on drugs, and the penalties for importing them) would simply waltz through their customs area with a whole bag full of the stuff.

It is not being suggested that a baggage handler framed her.  Rather, that one simply used her bag, at random, to put the stuff in - presumably to be taken from her at some later stage.


Under Indonesian law, you are required to 'prove your innocence'.  Source : Paul Wilson, Professor of Criminology, Bond University :

http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2005/s1333794.htm



The issue in Australia is and remains the question of whether she had any chance of getting a fair trial, and the overwhelming opinion is NO 

Sorry it took up your valuable newsspace though  ::)  If I ever read that you have been unfairly convicted and subsquently witch-trialled over something it seems that you did not do, I will have to remember the words "I don't feel sorry for ..."  :o

Given there are two separate threads on this, I will quote myself from the early days of the other one as well :


As an Australian it is difficult to see this clearly.  I try to get past whatever xenophobia I may unconsciously be harbouring against our northern neighbours.

I think the 'concept' underlying Indonesia's well known stance of being extremely hard on drugs is commendable, but for a very long time it has seemed (and I say seemed because the only info I ever hear about this is from the Australian media...) that they have lost the plot, in as much as they are SO gung ho about 'showing' everyone that this is their stance, that they perhaps have lost sight of the concept of innocence or guilt.

Now, I don't KNOW whether Schapelle is guilty or not guilty, and I will never know. 

What is disturbing is that you will find very few people in Australia (that I have spoken to, at least) who seem to think she is guilty based on the information that we are aware of.  Yet you would find just as few who really believed that she had a snowball's chance in hell of ever being acquitted either, and that says something, and it has to do with the country in which she was being tried.... :-\\

Fair trial ?  Who can say ?  But when you turn on your TV and find the judge (Yes !  The JUDGE) being interviewed (oh, btw, this is days BEFORE the verdict is handed down  :o) cheerfully stating that he has presided over more than 500 such cases and has NEVER acquitted one of them....well that to me is somewhat disturbing.

The message it sends to me is that if you go to Bali (or wherever in Indonesia) and they decide for whatever reason to say that you had drugs on you, then that is it.  :(  You're gone sunshine.  End of story.  That's all, she wrote.  :(  Because, according to those figures, they are never wrong.  >:(  To be very kind to them, 0 / 500 is at least, a statistical unlikelihood  >:(




Check it out :  0 acquittals from more than 500 cases for the presiding judge  ::)  Hmmm......Something is rotten in the state of Denmark Indonesia methinks  ::)

GWB, read the whole thread,


You're kidding aren't you Fuss? GWB always seems to conveniently skip over postings in threads. We've both pointed out the facts in the case as presented to the court, and he's completely ignored them both times.

You're kidding aren't you Fuss? GWB always seems to conveniently skip over postings in threads. We've both pointed out the facts in the case as presented to the court, and he's completely ignored them both times.


:)  ;)

Regrettably, I am NOT kidding, as you are aware Powerslave.  ;)  I never cease to be astounded at the black/white responses I see on the political boards.  ::) ::) ::)  If only life were that simple  :P

This case is covered in grey/gray, yet ya wouldn't think so hey ! 

I just thought I would bring it back to GW's attention, in case he overlooked it the first ten times  :)

I will also point out to those who may not be otherwise aware of the mitigating circumstances surrounding this case, that on the same day Corby was arrested in Bali with drugs she claims were put there by someone else, a baggage crew member at Sydney Airport was busted by Federal Police trying to smuggle a trafficable amount of heroin through Customs. The AFP are now investigating over 25 baggage crew staff under suspicion of running drugs through security channels at AUstralian airports. If anyone's planning on coming here, only bring enough stuff that will fit in the cabin above your seat.

If anyone's planning on coming here, only bring enough stuff that will fit in the cabin above your seat.


"Stuff" ?  :o    ;D  The AFP will be keeping an eye on you after reading this thread P/Slave  ;)

It's fairly obvious she was going to supply but face it. It was Marijuana.. this is not something that is gonna kill anybody.



Actually it's not "fairly obvious" she was going to supply it. Marihuana is worth about 5 times as much in Australia as it is in Bali. Why would you take $1500 worth of pot into a country where it's only worth $400? That would be like stealing 40 barrells of oil and then trying to sell them in Bahrain.

"Stuff" ?  :o    ;D  The AFP will be keeping an eye on you after reading this thread P/Slave  ;)


After some of the things I post elsewhere, I'm probably already on their list.  :)

After some of the things I post elsewhere, I'm probably already on their list.  :)


I was gonna suggest earlier that your board name probably caught their attention some time ago anyway  ;D  I just wanna know whether they have Goreripper and Powerslave as two separate files, or have merged them into one "mega-file"  ;)

I was gonna suggest earlier that your board name probably caught their attention some time ago anyway  ;D  I just wanna know whether they have Goreripper and Powerslave as two separate files, or have merged them into one "mega-file"  ;)


When I am finished, there will be no file big enough to hold me. Muahahahaha.

Maybe next time those Indonesians get nailed with a tsunami or a volcanic eruption, the Aussies and Yanks should say, "Gee, we'd love to help you out with some relief workers, but we're all afraid of getting 20 years for a joint!"  Yeah, just let 'em stew in it for a while, maybe they'll re-think the law.  Nah.  You can't reason with mass lunacy.
Corby's lucky she didn't get busted in Malaysia, her head would probably be in wicker basket by now!
:o

You think that, then you see what strict penalties for people caught dealing drugs can do.

I have to say that I make a big distinction between pot and the physiologically addictive drugs - literally millions of people in this country alone use pot on a regular, if not frequent, basis.  It's harmful on the same scale as tobacco - possibly slightly less; possibly more, depending on who's paying for the study.  So there is no major for making marijuana smuggling on that sort of scale a major crime.  Face it, if the stuff were legal, you wouldn't have any problems AT ALL with dealers killing each other, would you?

Actually it's not "fairly obvious" she was going to supply it. Marihuana is worth about 5 times as much in Australia as it is in Bali. Why would you take $1500 worth of pot into a country where it's only worth $400? That would be like stealing 40 barrells of oil and then trying to sell them in Bahrain.


Hmm, that's interesting. I didn't know that.

I was thinking more along the lines of weight.

My knowledge stops with "It's a bit cheaper in the states' ;D

All this fuss over a little pot. 

Our jails, in the US are overcrowded because we put pot heads in jail.  Meanwhile, some of my neighbors down a few 6 packs every night, get at least as stoned, and are more likely to be violent, yet booze is legal, and pot isn't.  As the liquor  lobby why.

Maybe next time those Indonesians get nailed with a tsunami or a volcanic eruption, the Aussies and Yanks should say, "Gee, we'd love to help you out with some relief workers, but we're all afraid of getting 20 years for a joint!" 


Now who is being mean spirited?

I for one am disgusted whenever humnitarian efforts are linked to some kind of political agenda.  And I would never endorse such behavior!  Even in the 1990's, I would have supported such efforts to Iraq.  During the Cold War, I would have supported it into the former Soviet Bloc nations.  I would never ever ever hold such a thing over people that needed help.


Well, it's always sickening to me how you right-wingers get off on saying "I have no pity for...," and "I don't feel sorry for...," and "so-and-so deserves it" every time somebody encounters misfortune (unless, of course, that person is a Republican, a church-goer, or a gun-owner).  It reveals so much about the mean-spiritedness which is the heart and soul of conservatism.


You see, in this case, it is because it is not a "minor incident".  If it was a case like Paul McCartney where she only had a few joints, I would slightly agree.  While I would agree it is excessive, I would also admit that it is their country.  But I would sincerely hope that they gave her clemency because of the small amount.

But come on now, this is 9 pounds!  That is nothing short of major drug trafficking.  And as I have said before, I have absolutely no sympathy for drug traffickers.

As for "misfortune", this is not the case.  Misfortune is somebody who is in an accident, or gets hit by a natural or man-made disaster.  This is something of her own creation.  I simply do not waste my sympathy for criminals.

As for those that for some reason are grabbing on defense counsel conspiracy theories, I simply follow 2 tests whenever something like this comes up.  And I use this test in other cases, like Scott Peterson, OJ Simpson, and Michael Jackson.  This is the application of both Occam's Razor, and the "Smell Test".

William of Occam stated "Given a choice between two explanations, choose the simplest -- the explanation which requires the fewest assumptions."  This explains my normal disdain for "Conspiracy Theories".  The JFK Assasination, Area 51, Illuminati, Free Masons, Philadelphia Experiment, UFO's, Faked Lunar Landings, Roswell, the list goes on and on.  I simply do not believe them.  I do grant that on occasion a "Real Conspiracy" happens.  Jimmy Hoffa is a good example of that.  But those are the exceptions.

In general, I simply discount such wild-assed speculations as the rantings of a defense attourney, who wants to get their client off.  While I am sure that at least one poster in here believes the latest speculation that Sony is having Michael Jackson set up on sex charges so he can get control of the Beatles Collection.  Myself however, I see it as nohting but a load of coprolite.

I also apply the "Smell Test".  I simply examine the facts, and then take a sniff.  If it smells like cow manure, I simply discount it totally.  If it has some credence, I will consider it further.  I have almost never encountered a "Conspiracy Theory" that smells like roses.  The only 3 I can think of in recent history is Jimmy Hoffa, Watergate, and the "Final Solution".

In short, I simply see a major international drug runner, that got caught.  And you have to remember, this is a foreign soverign nation, with their own laws.  I notice a lot of people wanting us to rush to have laws like Denmark or other "pro-legalization" nations, and then turn around and blast countries that oppose their particular "recreational drug of choice".  You can't have one without the other people.  What happened to this "multi-culturalism" that so many "liberals" seem to endorse?  Or is it only "Multi-Cultural" if you agree with that particulat cultural trait?

Face it, if the stuff were legal, you wouldn't have any problems AT ALL with dealers killing each other, would you?


So if we legalize marijuana, all the drug dealers are going to go home, get a job, and live an honest law-abiding life?  Come on.

I don't know where you stand on other illegal drugs, but it seems to me to be a little bit hypocritical to say "legalize marijuana" and then say "keep cocanine, methamphetamine, special k, etc. illegal and off our streets!"

to me, it's a matter of relative danger, so it's no hypocritical at all. I'll try to explain it in terms of weapons so you might understand a little better. Using marijuana is like throwing water balloons at people. It's not a productive use of time and if you do it too much or aren't careful about who you throw them at or how cold it is when you throw them, then you will probably get in trouble. But if you're careful about how you use them, then there will be not be any lasting consequences. Using more powerful and addictive and expensive drugs such as heroin and coke is like throwing grenades at buildings. Each time you do it it'll end up costing a lot of money and it will almost certainly lead to getting sent to jail for a long time for committing a violent crime if you don't accidentally kill yourself first. Throwing water balloons is legal and throwing grenades is not - so why can't pot be legal while keeping more dangerous ones illegal?   

Throwing water balloons is legal and throwing grenades is not - so why can't pot be legal while keeping more dangerous ones illegal?     


But remember, this discussion did not start as a "Legalization" topic.  If we legalize it or not, it has no impact on a nation like Indonesia.

Like a lot of nations in the "Muslim" sphere of influence, they view all drugs as harmfull and against the word of God.  Even if we legalized Crack, they would still have it as an illegal drug.

So if we legalize marijuana, all the drug dealers are going to go home, get a job, and live an honest law-abiding life? Come on.

Take away the profit motive, and you'd take away nearly all the drug dealers - why do you think there are so many?  Because it's easy money.  License and legalize all the softer drugs (what we'd call category B and C drugs), and have any physiologically addictive drugs available on prescription to registered addicts - the best way to fight the drugs problem is to stop all the money that goes to the drug barons.  Unless and until that is done, you can play the hard war on drugs as much as you like, but there's so much money to be made, all you're ever going to do is lock up thousands of low-level criminals (and pay millions to keep 'em in jail), and there's going to be thousands more willing recruits 'cause they can see the money.

PS... anyone remember *why* pot was made illegal?

um... to send hippies to jail so they'd stop protesting the war in public? It's been illegal my whole life but i'm sure it had something with vendors of other intoxicants wanting to decrease the competition

Schapelle's view of justice, Indonesian style....    :(

um... to send hippies to jail so they'd stop protesting the war in public?


I'm not going to bother to look it up, but I THINK it was banned around the 1920's or 1930's here in America.

I'm not going to bother to look it up, but I THINK it was banned around the 1920's or 1930's here in America.


The year 1937 is the generally cited as the year Marijuana became prohibited in America.  This was a state-by-state tax act.

Some facts 4U about pot prohibition:
http://blogs.salon.com/0002762/stories/2003/12/22/whyIsMarijuanaIllegal.html
http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/LIBRARY/studies/vlr/vlrtoc.htm
http://www.mpp.org/prohfact.html

Some Libertarians do promote outright legalization of all drugs so you could just buy them at the corner convenience store.  I do not.  This is a complex issue.  What I do support is decriminalization.  Stop arresting and imprisoning pot smokers.  These people are much less dangerous and less destructive than alcohol drinkers.  Stop treating addiction to drugs such as cocaine and heroin as a crime, and start treating it as what it is--a medical condition which requires both medical and psychological treatment...and above all: NOT PRISON!

I have been holidaying and have discovered that many net cafes disallow posting on certain sites - this one being one of them ! Grrrrr - I have pasted my thoughts on this overblown subject from where I posted them on another forum.

.................................
Anyway - I - like everyone else - have had a zillion thoughts on this subject over the past few months.

Firstly - I think its extremely vile of the Australian public and media to be so disrespectful about another countrys judicial system. Have you ever seen the Indonesians cry foul over us jailing thier illegal fishermen and people smugglers ? - No - because like normal people they respect that their residents broke laws in another country and therefore must face that countries judicial system. The indonesians use the Dutch court system - also used in many european nations and in much of South Africa. It is not some third world judiciary that the media would love for us to believe.

Secondly - as far as the court case went - it was correct. The charge was that Corby was found with drugs in her luggage. The only way to win that case was to prove they were not found in her luggage. Supposed set ups etc etc had utterly nothing to do with the case. The defence were unable to provide evidence that the drugs were not found in her luggage - guilty full stop. Supposed set ups etc have to be a whole nother case.

Thirdly - the Aus media and public have this hilarious perception that there is no reason to smuggle mull into Bali as they have plenty there anyway and its cheap. WRONG. What you can buy on the streets of Bali is inferior quality leaf mixed with tobacco. They cant get good quality heads. And thats what the 4 kilos was - high grade australian heads. The very stuff bali users are keen to buy. 4 kilos is heavy - you cant tell me you dont feel the difference when you pick up a bag.

Fourthly - its SOOOOOOOOOO convenient that the pious Ray Martin and his Ch9 ilk (for US folk - Ray is our 60 Minutes/ A Current Affair journo/host and thinks he is the be all and end all) - totally neglected to mention the revolting Corby sister and her balinese husbands criminal convictions for selling drugs in Indonesia and Australia, and the mothers charge of attempted smuggling. WHY ??? because that would have stuffed up all their precious storylines. I know of these charges because a close friend of mine is a Ch9 reporter and this was supplied to him in writing - that being all the items he was NOT to report on during the case.

Fifthly - the media have played the "she's pretty (in their eyes) so she must be innocent" game. If she was a stoned surfie, or an aboriginal and kinda scruffy, or a fat ugly lesbian - well the media just aint interested in that story. Do you know how many Aussies are currently in jails for the same crime around the world ? - hundreds. And are we interested in their story ? nup cos they are just criminals somewhere in the world. Ray Martin hasnt discovered them yet.

Sixthly - ugggh Ron Bakir - hasnt this publicity been an absolute blessing for raising his insolvent company from the ashes. A mobile phone salesman who has been trading insolvent and facing personal bankruptcy - suddenly finds $50,000 to pay her courtcases - just to get his face in the paper.

Seventhly - yes I will agree that there is an obvious disparity between her 20 years and a terrorists few years sentences BUT - all over indonesia, for the past 40 years - there have been massive signs advising the penalty for drug smuggling. I cant say I have ever seen a sign stating the penalty for terrorism. And considering we live in a country where avoiding parking fines gets a heavier sentence than rape or murder - who are we to criticise another countrys sentencing ?????

Eighthly - Indonesia is a massive country made up of thousands of islands with population something like 20 times more than Australia. Aceh is a thousand miles away from Bali. Yet people are saying stuff like "withdraw the tsunami aid" from islands that were innocently affected by mother nature and have utterly nothing to do with legal decisions made on unaffected islands.

Ninthly and tenthly !! ENOUGH ALREADY. One woman, one crime - the media and the gullible media believing public - need to get over it. Does it need to be front page any longer ? Do we need to hear daily stories of what quality loo paper she used to wipe her butt ? Do we need to see any more interviews with that revolting family of hers ? A billion crimes are being committed all over the world by all nationalities. Being a "pretty" brunnette Aussie doesnt make you any more or less important or news worthy than anyone else in the world.

The Australian public has been played like a patsy by the media - and they have gullibly fallen for everything Ray Martin has spouted to them. If he says it - it must be true ? right ? - NO !. The australian media made you believe the crux of the case was to prove someone else has put the drugs in the luggage. WRONG - the actual case was to prove whether or not the drugs were in her luggage. Thats what she has been found guilty of. Thats what the case was 100% based on - nothing more, nothing less.

Ahhhhhhhhhhhh thats my rant !! All done now !
...............................

So thats what I wrote on another forum while I was on holidays in Sydney and couldnt post here.  Much as I wanted to participate.  I am heartily sick of the way the media latches on to stories like this when the person involved is "camera friendly". I am heartily sick of the biased reporting that makes readers and viewers think a certain way because they are not given all the facts. And I am heartily sick of articles that start with the sentence "All of Australia........ wept......... sat in shock......" etc etc - cos its not ALL of Australia.

To those who think she is innocent - if you had been given the WHOLE story over the past few months - ie the family's drug charge history - would you have a different opinion ?

The basic facts - if you get caught with ANY kind of drugs in Indonesia - you WILL get a heavy sentence or the death penalty. This is not a secret - its a well known thing in our part of the world and there have been Australians hung and shot in various parts of Asia over the decades for this crime. WHEN you are caught - you have to prove its not your bag - not that they are not your drugs.  Full stop. If you cant prove its not your bag - you are guilty.  I see absolutely no problem with this !

I have been holidaying and have discovered that many net cafes disallow posting on certain sites - this one being one of them ! Grrrrr - I have pasted my thoughts on this overblown subject from where I posted them on another forum.


Welcome back.  I think you should call the ACLU, and sue them for infringing on your rights to free speech.  :P


Fourthly - its SOOOOOOOOOO convenient that the pious Ray Martin and his Ch9 ilk (for US folk - Ray is our 60 Minutes/ A Current Affair journo/host and thinks he is the be all and end all) - totally neglected to mention the revolting Corby sister and her balinese husbands criminal convictions for selling drugs in Indonesia and Australia, and the mothers charge of attempted smuggling. WHY ??? because that would have stuffed up all their precious storylines. I know of these charges because a close friend of mine is a Ch9 reporter and this was supplied to him in writing - that being all the items he was NOT to report on during the case.


This is more or less what I suspected from the very beginning.  4 kilos is the same as 9 pounds, and that is a lot of pot.  That is nothing less then trafficking amount.  In the US, you will get about the same amount of jail time if you are caught with that much at one time (of course with suspended sentences and the like, it is normally more like 5-10 time served).  I guess all of this other past smuggling activity by her family does not matter, but it certainly does show a pattern of taking over for each other to keep their little "import-export business" in operation.


Ninthly and tenthly !! ENOUGH ALREADY. One woman, one crime - the media and the gullible media believing public - need to get over it. Does it need to be front page any longer ? Do we need to hear daily stories of what quality loo paper she used to wipe her butt ? Do we need to see any more interviews with that revolting family of hers ? A billion crimes are being committed all over the world by all nationalities. Being a "pretty" brunnette Aussie doesnt make you any more or less important or news worthy than anyone else in the world.


Myself, I wonder how much of this might be a hidden "Anti-Muslim" sentiment in the media in Australia.  Everybody knows that with the exception of terrorist groups like Al-Queda and Taliban, Muslim teachings and laws strongly forbid the use of drugs.  And I am sure that everybody has at least heard of the movie "Midnight Express". 


To those who think she is innocent - if you had been given the WHOLE story over the past few months - ie the family's drug charge history - would you have a different opinion ?


Probably none, because they always seemed to take it to a "Legalization" topic.  Never mind that this is about Indonesia not Legalization. 


The basic facts - if you get caught with ANY kind of drugs in Indonesia - you WILL get a heavy sentence or the death penalty. This is not a secret - its a well known thing in our part of the world and there have been Australians hung and shot in various parts of Asia over the decades for this crime. WHEN you are caught - you have to prove its not your bag - not that they are not your drugs.  Full stop. If you cant prove its not your bag - you are guilty.  I see absolutely no problem with this !


This is an area where you all are probably lucky.  In the US, almost nobody ever goes overseas.  So their view of the world is a very narrow one, fed to them by mass-media.

I looked for numbers stating what percentage of Americans have travelled overseas, and found only this:

http://www.gyford.com/phil/writing/2003/01/31/how_many_america.php

In short, somewhere between 7-25% of Americans have ever had a passport.  Odds are, the real number is somewhere around 10%.  That means that only 1 out of 10 people in this country have ever experienced a country other then Canada and Mexico.  That is a pretty damned narrow world view.  And because of this, they constantly wonder why other countries are not "like us".

Unlike most here, I have travelled quite a bit.  I have spent quite a bit of time in Mexico and Canada.  I have also lived for over a month in Panama, and for over a year in Japan.  I know what it is like to live without "Constitutional Rights", and  have to watch every little thing I did, lest I offend my "host country".

But this also taught me a lot of how other nations and their people.  Myself, I am ashamed that most of the comments here would fall under the "Ugly American" stereotype.  They blast Indonesia for their laws, not giving a damm that it is another soverign nation, with the right to police itself as it sees fit.  Instead, they poke their big head in and criticize, never mind that they have a runaway drug problem of their own.

Myself, I wonder how much of this might be a hidden "Anti-Muslim" sentiment in the media in Australia.  Everybody knows that with the exception of terrorist groups like Al-Queda and Taliban, Muslim teachings and laws strongly forbid the use of drugs.  And I am sure that everybody has at least heard of the movie "Midnight Express". 



There is certainly an anti-Muslim sentiment in the Australian media, just like there is in virtually any Western nation. However, the province of Bali is primarily Buddhist; I think it is more generally an anti-Indonesian sentiment than anti-Muslim in this case. Relations between Australia and Indonesia have never been good since the Dutch left, and it's easy for the media to beat up a "pretty girl in Indonesian hellhole" story.

I don't know why you keep bringing up Midnight Express, though.

Mushroom wrote:
This is an area where you all are probably lucky.  In the US, almost nobody ever goes overseas.  So their view of the world is a very narrow one, fed to them by mass-media.

All I said was I didn't agree with Indonesia's laws.  Anyone who crosses the boarder into a Muslim country with drugs is either a moron, or is d*mn sure he/she won't get caught.  I've talked to plenty of old hippies who made it through places like Morocco, Turkey, and Pakistan carrying pot and hash.   They managed not to get caught and live to tell about it!  It's not a chance I'd take!
I don't mean to sound anti-Muslim, I'm not.  It's their country, their rules!
Forget overseas, I wouldn't cross the border into Canada carrying dope, not even one skinny J in my sock!  It's just not worth it.

A friend of mine went to Uzbekistan some years ago.  I told her, "Don't take photos of military stuff, and don't buy no weed!"  Just don't go to Uzbekistan at all today, you might come back as Swiss cheese!

Indonesia may use the Dutch court system, but don't confuse that with Dutch law!
I agree with Powerslave, watch "Midnight Express."  Not so much because the kid gets caught smuggling hash in Turkey, but because it's just a d*mn good movie!

I cant believe that out of my million points I raised there - I manage to miss one !!

That being that there is evidence that Ms Corby has travelled to Bali between 25 and 35 times over the past 3 years.

The best price I can find at Qantas for that trip is $986AU Brisbane to Denpasar return flight. 

Whats her occupation again ? Part time Target catalogue model ? Beauty therapist ?  She would make an average of $30k to 40k per year. If that.

I earn what is considered a good wage here and I can tell you - I fly to Sydney and/or Melbourne 3 times a year - thats 9 trips over past three years - with return fares averaging $500 - $600.

I dont think anyone I know on a middle income wage could afford to spend $24650 to $34510 on flights to Bali over 3 years. 


hmmmmm unless they had "other" sources of income ...................

I was also speaking to my friends father this week - he is second in charge of security at Sydney Airport.  He has been told by Brisbane Airport security that had she been arrested in Australia - there is ample video evidence to charge her. It was offered to the Indonesian police but not accepted as they felt they had more than enough to charge her with. He also said this information was offered to the media but no-one wanted it as it would have ruined their "pretty brunette" stories.

And for those who want to see a more recent movie on drug smuggling - try the 80s mini series Bangkok Hilton starring a young Nicole Kidman. Just as gripping as Midnight Express and based on a composite of three true stories about Australian women on death row in Bangkok.


Mushroom wrote:
All I said was I didn't agree with Indonesia's laws.  Anyone who crosses the boarder into a Muslim country with drugs is either a moron, or is d*mn sure he/she won't get caught. 


While Indonesia is one of the worlds largest Muslim populations - the island of Bali is actually a very peaceful Buddist population.


There is certainly an anti-Muslim sentiment in the Australian media, just like there is in virtually any Western nation. 


I would like to think there is an anti Muslim Extremist sentiment out there - rather than the assumption - by the media and by many non muslims - that "all muslims are alike".  I work in a team of 15 people - 9 of whom are muslim - not one of them are remotely likely to blow my office up ! I also live about 100 metres from the city mosque - a very nice peaceful place - not some plotting point for terrorists !!


Welcome back. I think you should call the ACLU, and sue them for infringing on your rights to free speech. :P

I guess all of this other past smuggling activity by her family does not matter, but it certainly does show a pattern of taking over for each other to keep their little "import-export business" in operation.

In short, somewhere between 7-25% of Americans have ever had a passport. Odds are, the real number is somewhere around 10%. That means that only 1 out of 10 people in this country have ever experienced a country other then Canada and Mexico. That is a pretty darned narrow world view. And because of this, they constantly wonder why other countries are not "like us".



Not sure why the internet points at my hotel wouldnt let me post - it let me log in and write the entire darn post. Then I hit Post - and got the nasty message - and it went to a blank screen so I lost everything - darnit !

The criminal history of Corbys sister and brother in law - its actually a current thing - not something that occured in the past. They own a Bali surf shop and its well known as the best place to go and buy your drugs when needed.

Wow those stats are scarey - less than a quarter of your population own a passport ?  I seriously dont know a single solitary person without one. I got my first one at 3 years of age and have never been without one since.  having said that - I do have a 36 year old female friend who has never been further than a two hour drive from perth - has never been on a plane, boat or train - and has utterly no aspirations to see anywhere on the planet - but hillariously - she does have a passport - for ID purposes.

People in Arabia smoke hash like crazy, I don't see why just because Indonesia is a predominantly Muslim country that excuses them from human rights standards. I think that the Indonesian government, as an act of good faith to Australia, should allow the woman to go back to Australia where she can be assured a fair trial by proxy. That way, if she's guilty, she can be proven so in a respectable court and be given an appropriate punishment on behalf of Indonesia. Even 20 years in an Aussie prison HAS to be better than 20 years in an Indonesian prison.

should allow the woman to go back to Australia where she can be assured a fair trial by proxy.


Do you think Indonesia thinks the trail was unfair?

Do you think Indonesia thinks the trail was unfair?



If handing her over to Australia is done as an act of good faith, then it's done simply for the sake of bettering the relationship between the two countries, regardless of whether they think the trial was fair or not. I'm not saying that is what's going to happen, but ideally, that is what should happen.

And no, I don't think any government would admit to holding unfair trials. But I think somehow the fairness question could be circumvented if she was handed over to the Aussies as an act of good faith. 

Check it out :  0 acquittals from more than 500 cases for the presiding judge  ::)   Hmmm......Something is rotten in the state of Denmark Indonesia methinks  ::)



Secondly - as far as the court case went - it was correct. The charge was that Corby was found with drugs in her luggage. The only way to win that case was to prove they were not found in her luggage. Supposed set ups etc etc had utterly nothing to do with the case. The defence were unable to provide evidence that the drugs were not found in her luggage - guilty full stop. Supposed set ups etc have to be a whole nother case.

The Australian public has been played like a patsy by the media - and they have gullibly fallen for everything Ray Martin has spouted to them. If he says it - it must be true ? right ? - NO !. The australian media made you believe the crux of the case was to prove someone else has put the drugs in the luggage. WRONG - the actual case was to prove whether or not the drugs were in her luggage. Thats what she has been found guilty of. Thats what the case was 100% based on - nothing more, nothing less.

The basic facts - if you get caught with ANY kind of drugs in Indonesia - you WILL get a heavy sentence or the death penalty. This is not a secret - its a well known thing in our part of the world and there have been Australians hung and shot in various parts of Asia over the decades for this crime. WHEN you are caught - you have to prove its not your bag - not that they are not your drugs. Full stop. If you cant prove its not your bag - you are guilty. I see absolutely no problem with this !


From that standpoint, I can understand why there have been no acquittals.

If handing her over to Australia is done as an act of good faith, then it's done simply for the sake of bettering the relationship between the two countries, regardless of whether they think the trial was fair or not. I'm not saying that is what's going to happen, but ideally, that is what should happen.

And no, I don't think any government would admit to holding unfair trials. But I think somehow the fairness question could be circumvented if she was handed over to the Aussies as an act of good faith. 


There was nothing unfair about the trial. What was unfair was the revolting biased and blatant untrue reporting by the Australian media.
The majority of our Government, along with the majority of the Australian public, believe that if you break the law in another country - you deal with your punishment as per that countries laws.
They have stepped in on some very rare occassions in the past few decades - but its definately not a regular thing - actually I can only think of two in the past decade.
And it wont happen on this occassion when the head of Brisbane Airport security has evidence to prove her guilt. Why should Australian taxpayers pay for her being transferred back here and then finance another courtcase that will have the same result but a really pathetic australian sentence ?
There have been Australians hung and shot in Asian prisons for drug smuggling in the past 20 years - and as far as I am concerned they got what they deserved.

nudging this up

WHEN you are caught - you have to prove its not your bag - not that they are not your drugs. Full stop. If you cant prove its not your bag - you are guilty. I see absolutely no problem with this !

In other words, you are completely happy with the thought that somebody may be locked up for an inordinate length of time for there being dope in their bag when there is no evidence whatsoever that the person knew the dope was in their bag... What I mean is some kind of corroboration: fingerprints on the dope, that sort of thing.

If the onus is completely on the person whose bag it is to prove that it isn't their bag... then that's a green light to anyone wanting to use unwitting third-party couriers, secure in the knowledge that the cops will never come looking for them.  All I can say is that I hope you never travel to Indonesia and something that you didn't put there gets found in your luggage.