"What business of mine is it to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?" 1 Corinthians 5:12, Paul the Apostle


There is a news story out in my little corner of the planet right now that a local Baptist "preacher" has put up in front of his church, and refuses to take down, a sign which reads, and I quote "The Koran should be flushed." Only recently, another "preacher" expelled some members of his congregation for criticizing President Bush!!--but promised to accept them back with open arms when they had "repented".

O.K., O.K., I get it. These people scare the living $#!* out of me, too. As a Christian, I hereby publically  repudiate and disavow all connection with these misguided actions, and with other such actions you may have heard of, and I apologize on their behalf to everyone.  :\'( :\'( :\'(

freedom of religion for some means that THEY are the only ones who can practice and to hell with anyone else. It is people like that who likes to stir up hatred which scare the s**t out of me. To me, they do not define my meaning of what Christian is or should be.






Cat

THankyou, Darktower, for such a diserning and "liberal" post, and while am appauled by these actions (the pro-Bush pastor should lose his tax exempt status - or his church should) we still must defend their right to be idiots.

There is a news story out in my little corner of the planet right now that a local Baptist "preacher" has put up in front of his church, and refuses to take down, a sign which reads, and I quote "The Koran should be flushed." Only recently, another "preacher" expelled some members of his congregation for criticizing President Bush!!--but promised to accept them back with open arms when they had "repented".

O.K., O.K., I get it. These people scare the living $#!* out of me, too. As a Christian, I hereby publically  repudiate and disavow all connection with these misguided actions, and with other such actions you may have heard of, and I apologize on their behalf to everyone.  :\'( :\'( :\'(


Agreed. If I were Christian, I'd be ashamed.. Hell, I'm ashamed, and I'm not even Christian! What kind of image are we portraying to Muslims every where with a sign like that.

THankyou, Darktower, for such a diserning and "liberal" post, and while am appauled by these actions (the pro-Bush pastor should lose his tax exempt status - or his church should) we still must defend their right to be idiots.


Oh, they are my brothers, and I love them with tears, but I think they're in trouble with Dad (I guess there are a few in every familly...)

"What business of mine is it to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?" 1 Corinthians 5:12, Paul the Apostle


There is a news story out in my little corner of the planet right now that a local Baptist "preacher" has put up in front of his church, and refuses to take down, a sign which reads, and I quote "The Koran should be flushed." Only recently, another "preacher" expelled some members of his congregation for criticizing President Bush!!--but promised to accept them back with open arms when they had "repented".

O.K., O.K., I get it. These people scare the living $#!* out of me, too. As a Christian, I hereby publically  repudiate and disavow all connection with these misguided actions, and with other such actions you may have heard of, and I apologize on their behalf to everyone.  :\'( :\'( :\'(


There isn't any reason for you to apologize on their behalf.  They have nothing to do with you, and nothing to do with Christianity.  ;)

I feel embarresed to be a Catholic, after hearing about that sign and the guy who put it up, hopefully someone took it down. How would someone like  it if the Bible was flushed down the toliet instead ?  ::)

"What business of mine is it to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?" 1 Corinthians 5:12, Paul the Apostle


There is a news story out in my little corner of the planet right now that a local Baptist "preacher" has put up in front of his church, and refuses to take down, a sign which reads, and I quote "The Koran should be flushed." Only recently, another "preacher" expelled some members of his congregation for criticizing President Bush!!--but promised to accept them back with open arms when they had "repented".

O.K., O.K., I get it. These people scare the living $#!* out of me, too. As a Christian, I hereby publically  repudiate and disavow all connection with these misguided actions, and with other such actions you may have heard of, and I apologize on their behalf to everyone.  :\'( :\'( :\'(


You have nothing to be embarassed about or to apologize for.  :)  Seems to me that you are doing exactly what good Christians are supposed to do under these circumstances: 

Matthew 7:15-23

15  "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but underneath are ravenous wolves.
16 By their fruits you will know them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?
17 Just so, every good tree bears good fruit, and a rotten tree bears bad fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a rotten tree bear good fruit.
19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.
20 So by their fruits you will know them.
21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven,  but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven.
22 Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name? Did we not drive out demons in your name? Did we not do mighty deeds in your name?'
23 Then I will declare to them solemnly, 'I never knew you.  Depart from me, you evildoers.'

Thank you, MooRocca; that is precisely the Scripture that I turned to myself.

TOPIC UPDATE: The "flusher" has apologized (though I don't know if the sign is down yet); he says he "didn't mean to offend Muslims; he was just trying to exalt the Bible". Oh. O.K. Well, that's all right, then--no harm done.  ;) :o >:(

I've made this point before, but it bears repeating.  We can  characterize religions into 2 broad groups, "revealed" and what I will call "organic".  Both can obviously be used for what I would call evil - fostering hatred, descrimination, etc - but it seems to me that revealed religions (Christianity, Islam, Judaism) lend themselves to these abuses because they each claim to follow God's word.  Personally, God has never spoken to me, nor even shown me a sign of His existance, and I don't believe He has spoken to anyone else.  So, I have to be very sceptical of those who insist that their beliefs are favored by God.  I am an agnostic - not sure - but I do think Shakespear got it right "there are more things under the heavans and earth than are drempt of in your (my) simple philosophy."  So I do ask the God and the Goddess for their blessings, on my endeavors and on those of others who follow the Wiccan Rule - Do as you will, harm none.  If all people of faith observed that rule, wouldn't the world be a better place?  What I am saying is that tolerance, no, acceptance, is the key.  I accept and respect the relgious views of others.  I ask the same from others.  We all pray in our own church.

I've made this point before, but it bears repeating.  We can  characterize religions into 2 broad groups, "revealed" and what I will call "organic".  Both can obviously be used for what I would call evil - fostering hatred, descrimination, etc - but it seems to me that revealed religions (Christianity, Islam, Judaism) lend themselves to these abuses because they each claim to follow God's word.  Personally, God has never spoken to me, nor even shown me a sign of His existance, and I don't believe He has spoken to anyone else.  So, I have to be very sceptical of those who insist that their beliefs are favored by God.  I am an agnostic - not sure - but I do think Shakespear got it right "there are more things under the heavans and earth than are drempt of in your (my) simple philosophy."  So I do ask the God and the Goddess for their blessings, on my endeavors and on those of others who follow the Wiccan Rule - Do as you will, harm none.  If all people of faith observed that rule, wouldn't the world be a better place?  What I am saying is that tolerance, no, acceptance, is the key.  I accept and respect the relgious views of others.  I ask the same from others.  We all pray in our own church.

Would you call Buddhism "organic" or "revealed"?

The only Christians who ought to feel ashamed or those Christians who have used the faith as an express route to political power and financial gain.
Christian dogma teaches man has a fallen nature and we are all sinners.  Thus, you work on your own soul and hope you can redeem yourself before the Lord.  To use Christianity in an underhanded, greedy, self-interested way to gain wealth and power seems to me far less redeemable than sins of the flesh!
Evangelical churches are now showing "Washington Minute" videos as part of the sermon.  They are merely a way to condemn liberals and whip up congregational support for the Republican Party.  It almost makes me an atheist that none of these evil preachers have been struck down by God!

Would you call Buddhism "organic" or "revealed"?




Buddhism is organic since Buddfha  never claimed to be devine, nor did he claim devine guidance.  The founders of Judaism, Christianity and Islam all make those claims, as do some of their followers. 

Regarding the controversy of the Koran being allegedly flushed down the toilet.... has it not occurred to anyone in the Arab world or in the US or elsewhere that a Koran could not be flushed as it would not FIT down the toilet? Neither would a normal sized Bible.

Does no one in this frikkin' universe have a modicum of common sense anymore? Geeesh! ::)

Regarding the controversy of the Koran being allegedly flushed down the toilet.... has it not occurred to anyone in the Arab world or in the US or elsewhere that a Koran could not be flushed as it would not FIT down the toilet? Neither would a normal sized Bible.

Does no one in this frikkin' universe have a modicum of common sense anymore? Geeesh! ::)

It would take all day and hundreds of gallons of water.  You'd have to shred a few pages at a time and flesh them.  Probably have to use that rubber suction cup a number of times too!  Good idea, actually.  You could tie the prisoner up and make him watch.  It would give him plenty of time to think about 'fessing up!

I wonder why Rush Limbaugh didn't make a scene about prisoners having flush toilets.  "See, my friends, they live better at Guantanamo than they do at home!"  Maybe he did, I dunno...

http://www.thedigitalcourier.com/content/articles/2005/05/24/news/news01.jpg

Link.

It would take all day and hundreds of gallons of water.  You'd have to shred a few pages at a time and flesh them.  Probably have to use that rubber suction cup a number of times too!  Good idea, actually.

The sad thing is, there are people out there who would do this.  :o

As far as I'm concerned, there's nothing pious about intolerance. We've had a succession of so-called "Muslim clerics" openly spouting hatred of Christianity in the UK in the last few years; as soon as one is removed, another appears to take their place. I just think that in the turbulent times we live in, people should be promoting internal harmony within their religions, and preaching tolerance for others. A vain hope, I suppose, the way religions seem to be polarising against each other...

A vain hope, I suppose, the way religions seem to be polarising against each other...


I say again, this has to do with the nature of revealed religion.  If you believe "God is on your side" and your side is different than others, than you MUST be right and they MUST be wrong.  You might want to see the Spencer Tracy/Frederick March (old) version of Inherit the Wind.  It is based on the Scopes trial, and is very true to the trial transcripts.  Henry Drummand (aka Clarance Darrow) made many points that bear on your thought.

http://www.thedigitalcourier.com/content/articles/2005/05/24/news/news01.jpg

Link.


This has covered befored....  ::)

What ever happen to "Judge Not Lest Ye Be Judged" or "Check the Log in your own eye,before you check the fleck in your brothers eye"? Heathens still go to church! Unfortunately, we can't point out those heathens! We all sinned, whether deliberately or unknowingly,Jesus died for ALL of our sins,not just the Christian society! I would like to ask that person who put that offensive sign in front of his church, Does he allow any Black people or other non-whites attend his church? How's about Gay's and Lesbian's? Interracial/Intercultural/Interfaith couples and families? The Disabled? The poor? The homeless? The overweight? As a Christian, myself, I sometimes wonder! >:(