WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) -- President Bush said Friday he would veto a bill to allow federal funding of research on stem cells if the research could destroy human embryos. Bush made his remarks in a question-and-answer session with reporters after a meeting with the Danish prime minister. Congress is expected to vote as soon as next week on a bipartisan bill to lift Bush's 2001 ban on the use of federal dollars for research using any new embryonic stem cell lines.

Link

WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) -- President Bush said Friday he would veto a bill to allow federal funding of research on stem cells if the research could destroy human embryos. Bush made his remarks in a question-and-answer session with reporters after a meeting with the Danish prime minister. Congress is expected to vote as soon as next week on a bipartisan bill to lift Bush's 2001 ban on the use of federal dollars for research using any new embryonic stem cell lines.

Link


And this is a GOOD position to take?  Lordy lordy, lets roll back the clock to the 1400's, burn witches at the stake, and excommunicate antbody that disputes the bible or church teaching.  Lets return to the good old Dark Ages.

And this is a GOOD position to take?


Yes it is.  I agree with President Bush on this.

See the media has been very deceptive on this issue, especially during the 2004 general election.  They made it sound like Bush was banning all stem cell research, when in reality stem cell research is going on in America right now with funds from the private sector.  The only thing President Bush is doing is making sure that stem cell reseach doesn't get federal funds, again the private sector is funding all the stem cell reseach going on now.

yep... the people's money should be spent on wars, not saving lives. And rich people know what the general population wants more more than the general population does. That's what the philosophy here seems to be.

And this is a GOOD position to take? Lordy lordy, lets roll back the clock to the 1400's, burn witches at the stake, and excommunicate antbody that disputes the bible or church teaching. Lets return to the good old Dark Ages.
I'd bet anything if Mr. Bush sustained a spinal-cord injury that crippled him and left him ventilator-dependent...if by God he ever got leukemia or another type of cancer..or something like Parkinson's..he'd want the 'stem cell' possible cure...But those in Big Government rarely care about us 'working stiffs'..or those on Medicaid or Medicare...or those of us with disabilities aka 'cripples'......all Prez Bush cares about are his fellow rich right-wing Christian friends and CAMPAIGN CONTRIBUTORS aka "You scratch my back I'll scratch yours"!

Yes it is.  I agree with President Bush on this.

See the media has been very deceptive on this issue, especially during the 2004 general election.  They made it sound like Bush was banning all stem cell research, when in reality stem cell research is going on in America right now with funds from the private sector.  The only thing President Bush is doing is making sure that stem cell reseach doesn't get federal funds, again the private sector is funding all the stem cell reseach going on now.


Actually, the Fed is funding stem cell research on existing lines of stem cell, so it is kind of hypocritical to bar researech using additional lines.  This psudo-moralism will allow the South Koreans and others to beat us to the punch - of course so will teaching creationism to our kids.  This country is going to he11 in a hand basket - fast - falling behind in basic scientific research, in technology development, in productivity, in manufacturing - you name it. 

Actually, the Fed is funding stem cell research on existing lines of stem cell, so it is kind of hypocritical to bar researech using additional lines.  This psudo-moralism will allow the South Koreans and others to beat us to the punch - of course so will teaching creationism to our kids.  This country is going to he11 in a hand basket - fast - falling behind in basic scientific research, in technology development, in productivity, in manufacturing - you name it. 

If the country is falling behind in science, it is not because Mr. Bush believes in obeying God's laws, it's because the the liberal secularist public schools are teaching "Heather Has Two Mommies" instead of the three R's (all of which Mr. Bush thinks start with the letter "R").
A cluster of undifferentiated cells is every bit the human being as is an ejaculate of spermatozoa.  This is why contraception equals genicide.  Sen. Rick Santorum (R-PA) has no problem with states outlawing contraception!
Do you think Tom DeLay uses condoms? Why do you think his name is DeLay?
:P

TonySand etc. wrote:
I'd bet anything if Mr. Bush sustained a spinal-cord injury that crippled him and left him ventilator-dependent...if by God he ever got leukemia or another type of cancer..or something like Parkinson's..he'd want the 'stem cell' possible cure...But those in Big Government rarely care about us 'working stiffs'..or those on Medicaid or Medicare...or those of us with disabilities aka 'cripples'......all Prez Bush cares about are his fellow rich right-wing Christian friends and CAMPAIGN CONTRIBUTORS aka "You scratch my back I'll scratch yours
Salient points all!  Remember, rules are for little people like us, when you're on God's own handpicked team of rich Republicans you can have all the stem cells you want.  You can even get the taxpayers to pay for a Lear Jet to Seoul (Stem Cell City) and the best hotel in all of Korea.  Again, Tom DeLay showed us the way!

EthanM wrote:
yep... the people's money should be spent on wars, not saving lives. And rich people know what the general population wants more more than the general population does. That's what the philosophy here seems to be.
You've got the first part right.  War doesn't kill people, stem cell research kills people!  I see they've still got you duped into thinking Bush and his billionaire pals actually CARE what the general population wants!

I see they've still got you duped into thinking Bush and his billionaire pals actually CARE what the general population wants!


I believe it was sarcasm.

I believe it was sarcasm.

Well no duh!
::)

Well no duh!
::)


You don't have to lie.  ;) ::)

::sighs::

Let the other civilised nations surpass us in science permanently... see where it leads us and then we'll see whose side god is on. (No one's, as far as I can see...)

::sighs::

Let the other civilised nations surpass us in science permanently... see where it leads us and then we'll see whose side god is on. (No one's, as far as I can see...)

Leave Republicans in charge long enough  and you won't need the word "other" in that sentence!
:o

Actually, the Fed is funding stem cell research on existing lines of stem cell, so it is kind of hypocritical to bar researech using additional lines.  This psudo-moralism will allow the South Koreans and others to beat us to the punch - of course so will teaching creationism to our kids.  This country is going to he11 in a hand basket - fast - falling behind in basic scientific research, in technology development, in productivity, in manufacturing - you name it. 


As in so many things, it all depends on your point of view, doesn't it? If one honestly believes--or is convinced based on available evidence--that the whole shootin' match is racing toward the edge of a cliff, then "falling behind" may, in fact, be a very rational response.

"People of faith" are often criticized for that faith, which is characterized as "blind" and "ignorant" --although in reality it is neither. What about the touching faith in "science" and "technological progress" as the cure for all our ills? Leaving aside the Bomb, poison gas, weaponized anthrax, laser-guided missiles, electromagnetic fields, etc., etc.,--what about the automobile, which directly kills fifty thousand people a year, poisons the atmosphere with the byproducts of internal combustion (I know they are cleaner now, but is less poison better than none at all?), and leads to our quagmire-like involvement in a highly unstable region of the world? And for what? So that we can get somewhere faster that we would have gotten to eventually anyway? What sense does that make?

C.S. Lewis observed that many people say "You can't turn back the clock," but if the clock is wrong, then turning it back is the first step in returning to normal; he also noted that if everyone is heading in the wrong direction, then the one who turns back first is the most "progressive" of them all. The light at the end of the tunnel may be a technological train headed our way.

As in so many things, it all depends on your point of view, doesn't it? If one honestly believes--or is convinced based on available evidence--that the whole shootin' match is racing toward the edge of a cliff, then "falling behind" may, in fact, be a very rational response.

"People of faith" are often criticized for that faith, which is characterized as "blind" and "ignorant" --although in reality it is neither. What about the touching faith in "science" and "technological progress" as the cure for all our ills? Leaving aside the Bomb, poison gas, weaponized anthrax, laser-guided missiles, electromagnetic fields, etc., etc.,--what about the automobile, which directly kills fifty thousand people a year, poisons the atmosphere with the byproducts of internal combustion (I know they are cleaner now, but is less poison better than none at all?), and leads to our quagmire-like involvement in a highly unstable region of the world? And for what? So that we can get somewhere faster that we would have gotten to eventually anyway? What sense does that make?

C.S. Lewis observed that many people say "You can't turn back the clock," but if the clock is wrong, then turning it back is the first step in returning to normal; he also noted that if everyone is heading in the wrong direction, then the one who turns back first is the most "progressive" of them all. The light at the end of the tunnel may be a technological train headed our way.

The objection to stem cell research is not universal among people of faith.  Likewise, it is not the ecclesiasticals at Notre Dame or Holy Cross who are objecting to the teaching of evolution.  It's a bunch of hayseeds in Kansas. 
It is a good point you make about weapons of war "science" has brought us in the past 100 years.  The problem is the SAME medieval cranks, er, I mean, people of faith, inveighing against stem cell research and evolution curricula positively LOOOOOVE atomic weapons!!!  I would go so far as to say the Christian Right has a bomb fetish.  Reagan used to invite Rev. Jerry Falwell and other armageddonist whackjobs to Pentagon briefings, but none of them ever proclaimed Lockheed engineers must measure in the cubit and span like in the Bible!
::) ::) ::)

As in so many things, it all depends on your point of view, doesn't it? If one honestly believes--or is convinced based on available evidence--that the whole shootin' match is racing toward the edge of a cliff, then "falling behind" may, in fact, be a very rational response.

"People of faith" are often criticized for that faith, which is characterized as "blind" and "ignorant" --although in reality it is neither. What about the touching faith in "science" and "technological progress" as the cure for all our ills? Leaving aside the Bomb, poison gas, weaponized anthrax, laser-guided missiles, electromagnetic fields, etc., etc.,--what about the automobile, which directly kills fifty thousand people a year, poisons the atmosphere with the byproducts of internal combustion (I know they are cleaner now, but is less poison better than none at all?), and leads to our quagmire-like involvement in a highly unstable region of the world? And for what? So that we can get somewhere faster that we would have gotten to eventually anyway? What sense does that make?

C.S. Lewis observed that many people say "You can't turn back the clock," but if the clock is wrong, then turning it back is the first step in returning to normal; he also noted that if everyone is heading in the wrong direction, then the one who turns back first is the most "progressive" of them all. The light at the end of the tunnel may be a technological train headed our way.


Like everything, science and technology are a double-edged sword.  They can be used for good - as in saving lives, preventing disease etc, or for ill, as in better ways to kill people.  The problem with statements like those you quote from C.S. Lewis is who gets to determine that the "clock is wrong" or that "everyone is headed in the wrong direction"?  It is very easy to trash technology, but how far back would you like to go?  Pre-auto?  pre-railroad, pre-wheel, pre-deluvian, pre-Cambrian?  It just don't work that way.