God knows was sick and twisted things they do in the privacy of their own house.
First we learnt that the accuser's username on hotmail was gay_blay  :D
Then the mother says, in court, under oath "My breasts feel out of my shirt so I asked my two boys to put my breasts back in."  :D  What sort of mother would ask that of her sons?
Now we've just learnt that a Neverland employee walked in on the accuser and his brother masturbating together while looking at porn.  :D  Good God, they are brother's for crying out loud!

Out of you, how many had to put their mother's breasts back in her shirt when they were only 13?
Out of you, how many masturbated with their brother (or their sister)?
Out of you, how many have a hotmail username like gay_blay?

I'm not one for blaming the victim.  It seems pretty obvious that the kid was used and abused by his family from a very young age.  The parents, and anyone who allowed all this to go on, should absolutely be prosecuted.  The accuser was raised in a sick situation and is so far divorced from the reality of what is appropriate that he should not be penalized, but he should be put in  a situation where he can be counseled to know that what he has been taught as normal is anything but.  Hopefully he will not grow up to be and abuser himself.

Evan if the accuser's family is dysfunctional, that doesn't let Jackson (I had other names for him in mind, but I'll be nice) off the hook.  The accumulation of evidance that I have read indicates that he is one sick puppy.  He seems to me to be a sexual predator in denial.  Can't maintain a healthy relationship with mature women, so he preys on young boys.  "Get they to a shrink" to paraphrase Hamlet to Ophilia.

A family would almost have to be clueless, sick, scheming, insane or all of the preceding in order to let their kids sleep over at Neverland in the past ten years.  However, DC is right.  Just because a dysfunctional family gave Jackson the opportunity to exploit their children doesn't make it any less of a crime, if Jackson did in fact commit hanky-panky with minors (which I'll bet he did).
MJ doesn't appear to be able to have a healthy relationship with any adult, male or female.

You don't know about Michael's relationships. Karen Faye and Michae have hand an on/off relationship for the last 20 years.
I don't want to argue about Jackson's innocence, but I will say this. There is no evidence that says Michael is a child molester. No evidence, none.

I also forgot to metion, there is a girl who is testifying for the defense, because she reported to her school that the accuser was beign sexually suggestive to her, to the point where it's harrasment. He was grabbing her, locking her in toilets and nearly raped her if another girl hadn't walked in. The bo's a sicko. How dare he sexually harrass a girl. How dare he.

The bo's a sicko. How dare he sexually harrass a girl. How dare he.


So to sexually harrass (not molest) someone of the opposite sex, who would biologically be the correct type & age of mating partner, is sick, yet to sexually interfere with a string of young boys as an adult, and try to hide behind wealth & mealy-mouthed lawyers, is not? Any form of harrassmant/ abuse is wrong, but I think Robbo, you are the pot calling the kettle black. And I know you're gonna say there's no proof MJ did anything, but in the same way there's no proof his accuser is guilty of what you've stated above. Ultimately, MJ is on trial here, not his victims.

Also, let's not forget that there's no way to know WHERE he learned that type of behavior.  It could very easily have been at Neverland ::)
It's not possible he learnt it from his mother?

Regardless, I think there's a problem with ANY parent who would let their child spend the night in a bed with an adult who is not related to them in any way.  Heck, even in the same room
My son went on a trip with a youth group. The youth groups only for boys, and all the leaders are men. It was a long trip and every night they had to sleep in church halls. So my son was in the same room, sometimes right next to a grown man who I don't even know that well. I have no problem with that, and I never have. Because I know nothing sexual's going to happen. It was a camping trip. Nothing's gonna happen and nothing did happen. I would never even ask my kid if anything bad happened. The thought has never crossed my mind. I don't have a perverted mind where everytime a kid has contact with an adult, it's sexual. Kid's and adults, and sex. Ewwww!!!

but as wrong as it is, it's not criminal.
Exactly.

If an adult asked me if any of MY boys could spend the night with them (whether they were sleeping in the same bed or not), there's no way in He|| that would  happen.

Look at my example above of my son sleeping in the same room as an adult. Would there still be no way in heel your gonna let your son go on that camping trip?

My son went on a trip with a youth group. The youth groups only for boys, and all the leaders are men. It was a long trip and every night they had to sleep in church halls. So my son was in the same room, sometimes right next to a grown man who I don't even know that well. I have no problem with that, and I never have. Because I know nothing sexual's going to happen. It was a camping trip. Nothing's gonna happen and nothing did happen. I would never even ask my kid if anything bad happened. The thought has never crossed my mind. I don't have a perverted mind where everytime a kid has contact with an adult, it's sexual. Kid's and adults, and sex. Ewwww!!!
Exactly.
Look at my example above of my son sleeping in the same room as an adult. Would there still be no way in heel your gonna let your son go on that camping trip?


No way in hell my son is going away with anyone I don't know, church or not.  You would never ask your kid if anything bad happened, and I would bet your kid wouldn't tell you(oh by the way ma, one of the chaperones sexually molested me). It doesn't take a perverted mind to make yourself aware of who is with your child and the issues that may arise when young people spend anytime overnight with strangers. 

As a Scout leader I have always advised other leaders in the District that they should never have adults and children sleeping in the same room.  If it is a church hall then the adults must sleep in one of the smaller rooms or camp outside or something.  We even try to avoid Scouts (age 11 to 14) sleeping in the same room as Cubs (age 8-11).  If the situation is unavoidable (Cubs and Scouts) then the room must have some sort of division i.e. one side of the room is Cubs and the other is for Scouts.  I do not believe that any of my leaders would be "up to something" but it prevents any misunderstanding or opportunities for false allegations.

In Britain all Scout leaders have to have a Criminal Records Bureau check before they can become leaders. 

If a Group has a family camp then all parents have to have this check as well. 

It is a very detailed check and should include all convictions, even if they are considered spent, and records the police may have of 'suspicions' of child abuse or other child-related crime.

No way in hell my son is going away with anyone I don't know, church or not.  


My sentiments exactly.

In Girl Scouts, the kids can't be alone with an adult at all.  There always has to be more than one adult present at any activity depending on how many kids and the age group.  But there always has to be at least two present to protect the kids and the grown ups.

In Britain all Scout leaders have to have a Criminal Records Bureau check before they can become leaders.

It is a very detailed check and should include all convictions, even if they are considered spent, and records the police may have of 'suspicions' of child abuse or other child-related crime.



That is how it is in the US, too.  I had to have an extensive backgroud check to be a Leader.  I don't mind it, though.  My daughter is a Brownie and I feel better knowing her leaders had to go through the same thing.

My daughter is a Beaver Scout (age 6-8) and we had a meeting the other week discussing the family camp.  When the check forms were handed out the leader just said to me "of course you don't need one".  I felt obliged to explain to the parents that, as a District leader, I had already been checked, in case they thought we were in collaboration or something!!

This is a relatively recent introduction in this country.  You have always had to provide referees and a local police check was done but the police national record bureau was only set up within the last 5 years.  Hopefully it will prevent those who had previously 'slipped through the net' gaining access to our young people.


Also, with my history, I HAVE talked to my kids about "bad touching" and my sons HAVE told me about kids playing 'you show me yours and I'll show you mine' so I feel pretty confident that they would come to me and tell me if anything ever happened to them. And yes, I WOULD ask them and as a parent, I can tell if they're lying to me.


I have tried to talk to my daughter about this as well.  I hope I have struck the right note so that she is stranger 'aware' but not afraid.  Both through Scouting and our other activity of orienteering Elizabeth and James meet lots of adults.  I want them to be confident about speaking to people who we know but wise enough to know what is not acceptable behaviour from adults.  Although we would all like to think none of our friends could do anything to harm a child, sadly this is not always the case.

If he was sharing a room with an adult by himself, then hell no.  There's a difference between 1 child and 1 adult sharing a bedroom (or a bed) and many children and many adults sharing a room.  If someone's going to molest a child, they're sure as hell less likely to do it with 10-15 people in the same room...not that it couldn't happen, it's just MUCH less likely to happen ::)

yeah but michael never said he sleept in the bed with the boy, or even in the room. he said what's wrong with sharing your bed, if i sleep on the floor or on a sofa. he never said in the same room or same bed.

The argument here is what is meant by sharing your bed.  How can you be sharing your bed if you are not actually sleeping/lying in it at the same time?

To share, means to give to others. If a brother shares his toy with his sister, he lets her play with it.
Michael Jackson said, What's wrong with sharing your bed when I'm on the floor in a cart or on a sofa. he means he gave the bed the the kid. He said this. He emphasized that he let the kid sleep in the bed and he slept on the floor in a cart. Everytime it's played, the edit it to make Michael sound like he sleeps in the bed with the kid. He never said this. Living With Michael Jackson was edited big time. Michael Jackson later released "Take 2" which was the real interview, unedited.
Remember during the Living With MJ documentary, there's a part during the interview at the end where Bashir's voice-over says, "Due to a confidentiality agreement signed by Jackson, this part of the intrview cannot be played. My questions had upset him deeply."
Martin bashir forged Michael's signature to cut these bits out. Not only did the contract say that part could be cut out, but it said the interview could be edited when played on TV instead of it beeing aired as it is. This and more will be brought up in court when the defense present their case.
In Take 2, is the part that was but out and the parts that were edited. When you watch Take 2 it will put what Michael said into context. He didn't say anything bad at all.

You don't know about Michael's relationships. Karen Faye and Michae have hand an on/off relationship for the last 20 years.
I don't want to argue about Jackson's innocence, but I will say this. There is no evidence that says Michael is a child molester. No evidence, none.


I find that rather hard to believe.  Especially considering that Michael himself has claimed he was a virgin until he was 32!

http://www.femalefirst.co.uk/celebrity/31982004.htm

I know that the rumors about his "affection" for young boys started way back around 1990.  And that a lot of people suspected his first marriage to Lisa Marie was to help stop some of the rumors.  Of course, his marriage occured about the time that he was being sued by one of the parents.

Having lived in the LA area during the earlier cases against him, I remember the shocks that went through the legal system.  Michael Jackson is the reason that in California, all cases of child abuse (especially sexual) must be reported.  And that people could be forced to testify.  Before this, the families were simply payed off to keep quiet.

Is MJ guilty?  Most likely.  He fits the classic profile of a pedophile, including the inability to form long-term attachments to women, past abuse, stunted emotional development, fantasies of being a child himself, and most of his closest friends being male children.

Remember who most of his "close friends" are.  Cory Haim, Corey Feldman, Macully Culkin, Wade Robson, Emmanuel Lewis, and others.  In fact, it is known in the "Hollywood Community" that Corey Feldman is trying hard to not testify.  And that for many years he has refused to talk about his relationship with Michael Jackson.  In fact, he wrote a song about MJ in his 2002 album named "Megalo-Man".  Here is one of the verses:

"I believed in your words
I believed in your lies
But in September in New York
You left me to die
I love you, Megalo Man."

Disturbing.

Everyone knows Brooke Sheilds took Michael's virginity away from him in the early 80's.
There is no classic profile of a pedophile, it's just something that someone made up to make Michael look like a pedophile. According to that profile, a pedophile wears a single golve, a fedora and sparkly socks.

Everyone knows Brooke Sheilds took Michael's virginity away from him in the early 80's.
There is no classic profile of a pedophile, it's just something that someone made up to make Michael look like a pedophile. According to that profile, a pedophile wears a single golve, a fedora and sparkly socks.


I think you have only 2 clues left about this case. Unfortunately, one's lost and the other went looking for it.

You are a nut Whitewolf. The things you've said. I cannot believe I'm reading some of this. Are you in denial? Are your denying the fact that MJ's is innocent. Everyone in the whole damn world is saying MJ is innocent at this point.The people who say MJ is guilty are the people who know nothing about him. You know nothing about him, so how can you make such judgements about him?

You are a nut Whitewolf. The things you've said. I cannot believe I'm reading some of this. Are you in denial? Are your denying the fact that MJ's is innocent. Everyone in the whole darn world is saying MJ is innocent at this point.The people who say MJ is guilty are the people who know nothing about him. You know nothing about him, so how can you make such judgements about him?


I read the updates everyday on MSN so don't say I know nothing about this case. I also looked up pedophile profiles and he fits it. Most pedophiles are very good at hiding what they really are.

I think you are the one in denial.

Everyone knows Brooke Sheilds took Michael's virginity away from him in the early 80's.
There is no classic profile of a pedophile, it's just something that someone made up to make Michael look like a pedophile. According to that profile, a pedophile wears a single golve, a fedora and sparkly socks.


How in the world does everyone know that Brooke Sheilds took his virginity ??? Has this story been proven with a sex tape or something? Because it sounds like just one of those stories you hear. Ya know, how Marilyn Manson was on Mr Belvedere, or the Rod Stewart alcohol poisoning stomach pump story.

And to me, the profile of a pedophile that Mushroom provided sounds pretty fair to me.

How in the world does everyone know that Brooke Sheilds took his virginity ??? Has this story been proven with a sex tape or something?


OMG!! I can't believe what I'm reading.
Let's turn what you said into another scenario.

How in the world does everyone know that Michael Jackson is a pedophile ??? Has this story been proven with a sex tape or something?

Think about it.

OMG!! I can't believe what I'm reading.
Let's turn what you said into another scenario.

How in the world does everyone know that Michael Jackson is a pedophile ??? Has this story been proven with a sex tape or something?

Think about it.


Hey, you're the one who pointed out Brooke taking his virginity like it is a proven fact.

And I don't know how everyone knows he's a pedophile. That's what the trial is supposed to prove. I've never said he was, or wasn't. I'm basing my opinions on what's being shown in court. If the defense can present a case to the world proving that he isn't, well than my opinion might change. But i'll tell you right now, it'll take a little more than just having Mac Culkin say that he wasn't molested to clear everything up.

Hey, you're the one who pointed out Brooke taking his virginity like it is a proven fact.

And I don't know how everyone knows he's a pedophile. That's what the trial is supposed to prove. I've never said he was, or wasn't. I'm basing my opinions on what's being shown in court. If the defense can present a case to the world proving that he isn't, well than my opinion might change. But i'll tell you right now, it'll take a little more than just having Mac Culkin say that he wasn't molested to clear everything up.




If someone who has been following the case closely, says they believe he is innocent, I'll respect that. Because if things go the way they should go, by the end of the prosecution's case, the jury should be thinking he is guilty. That's if the prosecution do a good job. When the defense presents their case, they are supposed to try and prove everything the prosecution said to be a lie. If they can do this successfully, the jury should believe he is not guilty. That's is they doa  good job. It comes down to who does a better job.
The prosecution plan to wrap up their case soon. The fact that MSN did a poll not long ago asking if the voters think the prosecution have put forward a good case, and the results were basiclaly 50/50 in the defense's favour, then the prosecutions case isn't looking too good. If the prosecution did a good job, it should've been 70-30 or 80-20. The prosecution have failed miserably. That's the bottom line.

How in the world does everyone know that Michael Jackson is a pedophile ??? Has this story been proven with a sex tape or something?

Think about it.


I am thinking about it.

Uhhh, I think the audio tape of Michael talking to a 9 year old boy about loosing his virginity at 32 would count as a "sex tape".  This was recorded, and MJ himself said it.

And about MJ being a dedophile, that has been well known for many many years.  Most of "Hollywood" has known this for over 15 years.  And notice the deafening silence from the "Hollywood Elite".

The "Hollywood Elite" has this ability to stand up and shout about almost anything.  Save The Whales, Stop The War, Save The Striped Owl, Stop Oil Drilling, Stop The SUV Tax, they will jump up to almost any cause and scream their head off.  But if the person is pervieved to be really guilty, there is a deafening silence.  Notice the lack of celebrity screaming around the cases of OJ Simpson, Winona Ryder, Robert Blake, and Michael Jackson?

Even more noticeable, notice how all of the "Former Child Stars" who associated with MJ in the past are NOT willing to testify?  One big reason is simply that Hollywood does not care about pedophiles.  That's right.  To them, age should not matter.  Notice how many will still willingly flock to work with somebody like Roman Polansky.

Now Robbo, I know it is hard when our heros let us down.  As a child, I wore an OJ Simpson jersey.  When the murders occured, I also thought he was innocent.  But as more and more evidence came in, I realized he really was guilty.  Now I am angry when his name comes up, or just shake my head and mutter to myself "what an idiot".

As far as Brooke Shields, here is a summary from testimony given at the trial:

"McManus said that during her time at Neverland she never saw a woman spend the night in Jackson's bedroom suite.

She said actress Brooke Shields, who had been romantically linked to Jackson before his marriage, stayed in a guest cottage when she came to Neverland."

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/LAW/04/08/jackson.trial/

And how is this for timing:  Brooke and Michael's "Break-up" occured in late 1993, right after the first public allegations of his child molestation.  And she is one of the voices that is strangely silent in reguards to his innocence.

And as far a a "Pedophile Profile", ask anybody who works with troubled children.  Here is a very good one.

http://www.mental-health-matters.com/articles/article.php?artID=273

I almost hope you do not have children.  Living in this much denial could be dangerous to any kids you may have.  It may not be pleasant, but look at the facts (or evidence). 

Same with Cub/Boy Scouts.  They also recommend that the boys don't go off in pairs, there should be at least 3.

It takes 3 to make a "circle," if ya know what I mean!
;)

If someone who has been following the case closely, says they believe he is innocent, I'll respect that.

What about if you are following the case and thinks he is guilty? you don't respct that.

Uhhh, I think the audio tape of Michael talking to a 9 year old boy about loosing his virginity at 32 would count as a "sex tape".  This was recorded, and MJ himself said it.
There is no such audio tape. If there was it would've been handed in as evidence.

And about MJ being a dedophile, that has been well known for many many years.  Most of "Hollywood" has known this for over 15 years.  And notice the deafening silence from the "Hollywood Elite".
This has not been known for many many years. Most of Hollywood has been through the same kidn of crap. They know what the DA's up to, it's no secret.

The "Hollywood Elite" has this ability to stand up and shout about almost anything.  Save The Whales, Stop The War, Save The Striped Owl, Stop Oil Drilling, Stop The SUV Tax, they will jump up to almost any cause and scream their head off.  But if the person is pervieved to be really guilty, there is a deafening silence.  Notice the lack of celebrity screaming around the cases of OJ Simpson, Winona Ryder, Robert Blake, and Michael Jackson?
There is no lack of celebrity support. There's just a lack of media support. That's why the media don't report when people say something positive about Michael. I'll post all the celebrity supporters in a moment.

Even more noticeable, notice how all of the "Former Child Stars" who associated with MJ in the past are NOT willing to testify?
Macualey Kulkin, Wade Robson and Brett Barnes are testifying for the defense. Mac has mantained since the beginning that if Michael needs him, he'll testify. I don't knwo the story with the nother two, but all three of these boys are testifying for the defense.

One big reason is simply that Hollywood does not care about pedophiles.  That's right.  To them, age should not matter.  Notice how many will still willingly flock to work with somebody like Roman Polansky.
Sure. No-one cares for pedophiles. But Michael aint a pedophile.

Now Robbo, I know it is hard when our heros let us down.  As a child, I wore an OJ Simpson jersey.  When the murders occured, I also thought he was innocent.  But as more and more evidence came in, I realized he really was guilty.  Now I am angry when his name comes up, or just shake my head and mutter to myself "what an idiot".
Michael Jackson has NOT let any of his fans down. If anything, we've grown to love him more and more for the attitude his shown towards the trial and the way he's shaped up and stepped up. He's such a nobel person. When the police arrested him and put him in handcuffs, he took it with dignity. He's not going to sink to their level. Michael's shown so much maturity, nobility and dignity during the trial.

As far as Brooke Shields, here is a summary from testimony given at the trial:

"McManus said that during her time at Neverland she never saw a woman spend the night in Jackson's bedroom suite.

She said actress Brooke Shields, who had been romantically linked to Jackson before his marriage, stayed in a guest cottage when she came to Neverland."

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/LAW/04/08/jackson.trial/

And how is this for timing:  Brooke and Michael's "Break-up" occured in late 1993, right after the first public allegations of his child molestation.  And she is one of the voices that is strangely silent in reguards to his innocence.

And as far a a "Pedophile Profile", ask anybody who works with troubled children.  Here is a very good one.

http://www.mental-health-matters.com/articles/article.php?artID=273

I almost hope you do not have children.  Living in this much denial could be dangerous to any kids you may have.  It may not be pleasant, but look at the facts (or evidence). 
I have three children. I am not living in denial. There is no facts or evidence. Give me the facts, the evidence. Where is it? This may suprise you but there has been no concrete evidence presented by the prosecution, or any credible testimony. The prosecution failed miserably. I'm not the only one saying this. Watch courttv or Larry king live and you'll see that all the legal experts, all the shrinks are all saying Michael is innocent, the prosecution tried, lost and Michael won. The trial isn't even over and allready Michael's won. The defense only need a couple of weeks, if that. they've allready won/

Look. I know I'm arguing with general members of the public who have not been following the trial very closely. I doubt any of you have even been into the courtroom. But I cannot stand people refusing to look at what the prosecution has presented in their case and making a fair judgement based on what's been said, what has been used as evidence, and who the witnesses have been.

Judging on what I've seen so far, I think Michael Jackson is completely innocent. Why? Because all the complaning witnesses' seem to have another agenda in their mind. Mostly the mother of course her pass and her admittion of perjury says alot. All the mother can see is big fat dollar signs. And with the "past acts", again, they all have some agenda against Jackson, they lost and have against them and they owe Jackson money. They have reason to lie. If the DA had gotten witnesses who dont have an agenda or doesnt have an axe to grind or anything against Jackson or no reason to lie, to testify that he/she saw these acts, then maybe I wouldn't be so convinced that they are lying, however, its the opposite all the prosecution have are disgruntled employees. Even the state's witnesses helped the defense more rather than their own case. I also think the conspiracy charge is a complete joke. I mean, c'mon, it sounds like some wacked out sci-fi flick.
It is a BS case. You have witnesses benefiting the defense, no concrete evidence, no straight forward story, it's changed with every witness. Every witnesses testimony seems to conflict with the next. If I was a DA, I would have never brought charges against Michael Jackson. I've spoken with DA's, and prosecuting attorney's before and they all say there is no way, under nroaml circumstances that these charges would've been brought against him. It's as clear as the nose on my face that the DA has some sort of vendetta against Michael Jackson.
I think the jury also can see past the DA's crap, and realise what he's up to. The DA has lost the jurors. He lost them when the accuser couldn't remember how many times he was molested, or when he said nothing happened between him and Jackson numerous times.
The prosecution wrap up their case next week. Is this it? Is this seriously all they have? A boy how can't remember what he had for breakfast, a mother with dollar signs flashing in her head, a bunch of disgruntled employees, and a case that sounds like some sci-fi movie. The DA's kidding himself if he expects the court to take him seriously.
Child molesting is a dirty thing but victims dont forget. If the boy stuck with the same story the whole time, no timeline change, no 2 or 5 or 7 or "I dont remember" times. Then maybe the DA would stand a chance at a possible conviction. But because of the way things have gone, the DA will lose this case. Of course its just my opinion but I dont see a slam dunk win for the DA at all and its only going to get worse when the defense puts on their case.

If it could be summed up : a guy around 35 hanging around 8 year olds...crime? No crime?

There may be that doubt in peoples minds that may win it for Michael but nonetheless the evidence he was doing "something" is there and someone really has to prove it..

I've hung around kids with their parents at parties and nothing was expected of me to care for them AND certainly not crying if they couldn't be around me...

if this would make the world SHUN their kids from Michael..that would help end to future circuses as this...but if HE instigates it..all this trouble is HIS doing...

Hi,Crazymom. nive to speak with you again.


Really?  I'm good friends with one of our IL State's Attorneys and he thinks he's guilty as hell...then again, we're only from Illinois and we haven't been IN the courtroom (not that that would matter, we're literate ::))
It's not if he's guilty or not. That's not what I said. I said that most DA's and attorney's I speak to say, under normal circumstances, he would not be charged. But because Tom Sneddon was on the case, well...

So, now you're an expert on molestation?  I'm not going to explain MY story again or how if you had asked me in the years following it, I would have denied it or said "I didn't remember" because I didn't want to talk about it or how I remember details now that I didn't a few years ago since YOU'RE the expert ::)
No I'm not, but I know come attorney's who've dealt with REAL cases of child molestation. They know the behaviour of a victim, and this kid is nothing like the average victim of molestation. Anyway, it's just common sense. If your sexually abbused, you're gonna remember it. This kid can't even remember who many times he was molested. First it was 5, then 7 now 2. You keep bringing up that victims don't remember it until a few years down the track. The kids had ample time to remember. He claims it happened in february 2003. It's not just the actual molestation that he can't remember. He can't remember interveiws, meetings. The kid's not credible. There's no way he was molested. He just doesn't act like the usual victim would. He's not crying or in emotional pain. He's a fake.


Robbo, I seriously think you would think he was innocent no matter what.  Even if videotaped evidence of him doing it, you'd say it was faked.  Heck, if he confessed, I'm sure he would have been 'pressured' into it.
Ofcourse you can't look past video footage or a confession. But the thing is, there is no video footage or confession. That's why I believe he's innocent. There's no concrete evidence, no credible witnesses. the DA has nothing on MJ. His case is BS.


If the family is in this "for the money" then why hasn't a civil suit been filed?  Why was it not filed BEFORE since he'd already paid off 2 'accusers' and chances are he would have done the same here?  Not that I'd blame them if they did afterward....look at Nicole Brown's family, they won even AFTER OJ was found innocent ::)
The kid has until he's 20 to file a civil lawsuit, and if Michael is convicted in a criminal trial, then the family will ultimately win a civil case. The family is just making it easier for themselves to win a civil lawsuit.

Suprising that you didn't even attempt to attack my reasoning for my belief in MJ's innocence. The fact taht all witnesses have another agenda on their mind, the lack of evidence, the lack of credibilty on the witnesses part, the ever-changing timeline, the fact that this case is being run by the same key players as 1993. I guess some things are just undeniable.

And I'm Jealous :D ::)

Notice the lack of celebrity screaming around the cases of OJ Simpson, Winona Ryder, Robert Blake, and Michael Jackson?

This is just a select few. you can see the whole list at MJJF.

Jermaine Jackson – “"I am sick and f**king tired of everybody saying these things about my family. We will fight and we will stand up and everybody who knows this family around the world will support us because, at the end of the day, this is nothing but a modern-day lynching. This is what they want to see - him in handcuffs! You got it! But it won't be for long, I promise you."

Elizabeth Taylor – “Their whole reaction is that he is guilty. I thought the law was 'innocent until proven guilty. I know he is innocent and I hope they all eat crow."

Alicia Keys – “I'm mad at that guy who dag-gone interviewed him. I’m gonna tell you right now, I think he's a piece of crap. I really do. I think it was evil and manipulative what that guy did. I don't know who is trying to assassinate Michael’s character but it's really a shame.�

Billy Connolly - "I think it's nightmarish, and I don't know how you're supposed to be innocent until proven guilty. My heart bleeds for the guy. They've all got him guilty and I don't buy it personally."

P Diddy – “The way they are treating my man, following him, stalking him, the media, everybody, it seems like the devil is heavily at work. I would say for us all to wait until the evidence is in and God bless Michael. He has had a positive impact on all of us. Let's pray for him, let's pray for everyone involved."

LL Cool J – “So many people are focusing on his appearance and saying, 'Well if he did this to his face, he did this to his appearance, then he must be strange in other areas,' and I don't necessarily agree with that.�

Monica – “My heart definitely goes out, not only to him but the other side because there is always going to be two sides, but who are we to judge?"

Chris Judd – “It's hard to believe this is happening to him again. All I can say to Michael is to keep his head up and know that he's got supporters and people got his back.�

Berry Gordy – “I know Michael to be a fine person and I'm hoping that whatever this is, the truth will come out and he'll be vindicated."

David Gest – “I know people find it odd because he hangs around with younger people. He probably should have gotten married much younger and had his own children and he would have never have had these problems."

Missy Elliot – “He's my biggest influence so that's why I'm very defensive, I'm ready to fight about Michael Jackson, so we pray to God he didn't do it, 'cause I might go to jail trying to defend him."

Debbie Allen – “I know his children, he's been so wonderful to my kids, I've been with him with a lot of kids so I have no idea what this is about, but I'm sure he will prevail."

Stevie Harvey - “This DA has a vendetta against Michael because he didn't get him 10 years ago."

Rick James (R.I.P.) - "These accusations are clearly lies, they are untrue. If Michael's guilty of anything, it's the Peter Pan syndrome, the same thing I'm guilty of ... the same thing a lot of people are guilty of. We do not want to grow up. We do not want to get old. We love children."

Nicole Richie – “I grew up with him and I've spent a lot of time at Neverland and nothing has ever happened with me in any way. You have to look at both sides. I do think it is very convenient that his album came out and all this stuff is happening. I definitely do think that's very convenient. ... It really hurts me to see that his whole life is ruined."

Vibe Magazine – “Michael Jackson's been dogged for things for the last 10 years or more. I think it's really hard when you become that big of an artist and you've been at the top, it's like, where else do you go? I feel sorry for him because I think the genius of his music is getting lost in a lot of the scandal and controversy, but the man is human."

Kevin Richardson (Backstreet Boys) - "One bad thing after another is happening to him and that's a shame, because I love him and I love his music."

Reverend Jesse Jackson – “The allegations brought against Michael Jackson are very serious and regardless of the outcome, there will be no winners in this case. In closing, Michael deserves due process, the newsrooms should remain objective and the global community must not hasten to judgment."

This has not been known for many many years. Most of Hollywood has been through the same kidn of crap. They know what the DA's up to, it's no secret.


OK, so let me ask you this:  How "connected" are you to the "Hollywood Scene"?

I myself am very connected.  You see, I get a lot of the "inside information", and this is a topic very much on the mind of the Hollywood players.  In fact, a conversation in my living room last month one of the things we talked about was Corey, and his desire to take any job outside of the US so he would not have to testify.

I tend to not talk about my Hollywood connections, but I do have them.  I worked in "The Industry" for several years, and still have a lot of friends that are active there.  And one thing about Hollywood, they tend to "circle the wagons" quite often when one of "their own" is under fire.  But in this case, it is just not there.

In cases where the person is clearly guilty and helping them will not do any good, they tend to back off.  Notice how few ran to help Rob Lowe.  Of course, now that his troubles are in the past, his career is in track again and his friends are glad to stand by him.  But then again, he publically admitted his guilt.

I will not say who my friends are, that would be breaking confidences.  But I will say that several of them are Oscar and Emmy winners, and they really do have the "inside scoop".  And none of them that I have talked to about this have ever thought he was innocent.  And believe me when I say this is from first hand knowledge.  I am not simply making things up to make a point.

Are any of your friends black? Are they friends of Michael? Have they themselves been to hell and back like Michael has? Notice the people who support Michael are the survivors. The people who have been to hell and back. Most of them are black and grew up in the same way Michael did. They understand Michael. When I think of celebrities who have said Michael is guilty, I think of rich pricks. White folks who grew up in flash houses with bean-shaped swimming pools and a fluffy puppy dog and a maid to wipe their asses. When I think of the people who support Michael, I think of the black, underprivledged, unrecognised in their field, had a rough childhood, who are christians and believe in God. Did you read the list I posted of some celeb supporters? Have you been to MJJF to check out the full list?

Are any of your friends black? Are they friends of Michael? Have they themselves been to hell and back like Michael has? Notice the people who support Michael are the survivors. The people who have been to hell and back. Most of them are black and grew up in the same way Michael did. They understand Michael. When I think of celebrities who have said Michael is guilty, I think of rich whatever. White folks who grew up in flash houses with bean-shaped swimming pools and a fluffy puppy dog and a maid to wipe their masses. When I think of the people who support Michael, I think of the black, underprivledged, unrecognised in their field, had a rough childhood, who are christians and believe in God. Did you read the list I posted of some celeb supporters? Have you been to MJJF to check out the full list?


OK, I now will not even bother to reply after this.  You see, I have this rule that I do not get into debates with racists.  And that last post was nothing but a blatant attack on "white people".

And I leave this debate with the following quote:

"Never argue with a fool â€â€Â� people might not know the difference."  anonymous

OK, I now will not even bother to reply after this.  You see, I have this rule that I do not get into debates with racists.  And that last post was nothing but a blatant attack on "white people".

And I leave this debate with the following quote:

"Never argue with a fool â€â€Â� people might not know the difference."  anonymous
I would take that advice but I can't resist the craziness....makes for some great humor...like...his fans are all wearing a pair of these!

http://www.syberg.be/zMentalSpace/sSys/photo's/pJ7e/blinders.jpg

Though the king of crepiness getting away with more molestations is very disturbing and not very funny :-\\

I can't believe you still think he's guilty crazymom. Have you not been watching to news or anything? Brett Barnes and Wade Robson absolutely discredited everything the "past acts" witnesses said. They're testimony's were fluent, not shakey, they were able to answer everything straight off, unlike the accuser and his family who just... sucked!! Just for the record, I believe it was Wade who said he was outraged when he saw in the news that he was being portrayed in the courtroom as a victim. Brett said he can't believe people think Michael's a pedophile when he fancies women so much. Both of them are in their twenties, if not thirties and both of them said they are still friends with Michael to this day which contradicts the prosecution's theory that Michael is only friends with them until they hit about 15, then he doesn't want to know them. Not true, he's still mates with both of them.

Brett said he can't believe people think Michael's a pedophile when he fancies women so much.


This had got to be the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard.  Most pedophiles are straight men.  Molestation isn't always about the sex...alot of times it is about having power.  Kinda like rape, it's not about sex but power. 

Isn't there something really really weird and dysfunctional about a woman or man (the parents) who think  it is acceptable or normal to say "hey yeah sleep over with Michael in his bed - that's fine"  It's these morons who need investigating too.  >:(

What's wrong with a parent letting their child sleep in Michael's bed? People are missing the point completely. Why is it assumed that Michael is in the bed at that time? There has never been any mention of Michael sleeping in the bed with the kid. Wade Robson and Brett Barnes both said, yes, they have slept in Michael's bed. Brett Barnes said about 20 times, Wade Robson said "countless" times. No where did they say Michael was in the bed too. So why is it assumed he is? They both said they slept in his bed. When you think about what they are actually saying, they are just saying exactly what they said, that they slept in the bed. No-one has ever said that they slept in the bed while Michael was in the bed. 

What's wrong with a parent letting their child sleep in Michael's bed? People are missing the point completely. Why is it assumed that Michael is in the bed at that time? There has never been any mention of Michael sleeping in the bed with the kid. Wade Robson and Brett Barnes both said, yes, they have slept in Michael's bed. Brett Barnes said about 20 times, Wade Robson said "countless" times. No where did they say Michael was in the bed too. So why is it assumed he is? They both said they slept in his bed. When you think about what they are actually saying, they are just saying exactly what they said, that they slept in the bed. No-one has ever said that they slept in the bed while Michael was in the bed. 
Yes but WHY should they have to sleep in his bed with or without him in it ?That house is huge right ? so why aren't they in a spare room if they sleep over ?? It's just plain weird to want a child to sleep in his bed.

Funny how the "news" is "evil" until you perceive that they're reporting what you want to hear....I seem to remember you slamming "the media" when they were reporting AGAINST Michael ::)

And, again, I don't base my opinion on what the news says...on this or ANY subject...I find out the facts and make my own opinion and after what my friend said about how he was towards her & her brother, there's not much that will change my mind ::)


That's exactly why I hate the media. Spot on. Ding ding ding!
When this trial started, they were bagging out Michael saying he was definately a child molester. Now that Michael's winning this trial, the media are kissing his ass. What til this is over, and more controversy arises about Michael Jackson. Maybe he'll get married. Maybe he'll sue Sony. Maybe he'll have another child. No matter what it is the media will return to saying he's a "wacko jacko" and they'll stab him in the back. That's why I hate them.