Well, apparently there is a new Pope for the Roman-Catholics.  Now we only have to see what the new Pontif chooses as his name, and what changes he will bring about to the world.

Well, it's official now.  Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger of Germany is now Pope Benedict XIV.

In interviews prior to his elevation, he had expressed his desire that the future Pope follow in the footsteps of Pope John Pail II. 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7523254/

Ratzinger was the most conservative among the picks, so there goes what the New York Times wanted.

He seems like a good man to me.

Ratzinger was the most conservative among the picks, so there go what the New York Times wanted.

He seems like a good pick to me.


is that because the New York Times didn't want him, or is it for his 15th century take on morality?

Well, it's official now.  Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger of Germany is now Pope Benedict XIV.

In interviews prior to his elevation, he had expressed his desire that the future Pope follow in the footsteps of Pope John Pail II. 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7523254/

No, I think it's Benedict XVI. I clicked on the link above to read the story.

Yeah, it's Benedict XVI or Benedict the 16th.

is that because the New York Times didn't want him, or is it for his 15th century take on morality?


probably both.

No, I think it's Benedict XVI. I clicked on the link above to read the story.


Oops, sorry, I transposed the VI

he's an uber-conservative taking the reigns of a church that was lead by a humanitarian. it's going to be interesting to see whats going to happen.

is that because the New York Times didn't want him, or is it for his 15th century take on morality?


And what is wrong with morality?

I know that a lot of people do not like that word nowadays, but there is a lot to be said for morality, ethics, and traditions.  A lot of people would probably have been happier under maybe Pope Timothy Leary.

morality in a personal life is a good thing. it's when people force their moral values on others  and punish those who aren't hurting anyone that there can be problems.

And what is wrong with morality?

I know that a lot of people do not like that word nowadays, but there is a lot to be said for morality, ethics, and traditions.  A lot of people would probably have been happier under maybe Pope Timothy Leary.



morality in a personal life is a good thing. it's when people force their moral values on others and punish those who aren't hurting anyone that there can be problems.


I agree with this 1000%

THere is nothing wrong with morality, nothing.  Nor would a more liberal Pope have championed immorality.  The question really boils down to where the church stands on the 2nd Vatican Council (under John 23rd) and issues of social justice, read "liberation theology".  Christ said that the meek "shall inherit the EARTH.  I take that to mean this mass of rock on which we stand, and not "pie in the sky".  Liberation theologists, whom Ratsinger cum Benedictine opposes, have sought to make that inheritance a reality.  Therein lies my problem with the new Pope.

And what is wrong with morality?

I know that a lot of people do not like that word nowadays, but there is a lot to be said for morality, ethics, and traditions.  A lot of people would probably have been happier under maybe Pope Timothy Leary.


There's also a lot that can be said that's negative about all three of those. 

Morality is fine, the morality this Pope is preaching, no thanks.  He's very opposed to anything even slightly liberal, which means he'll continue to move the church backwards for a few years and watch the membership drop even further.  Continued harrasment against homosexuals will help keep the most conservative by his side, but will only end up leading to one more voice to help support the hatred flung towards them.

I suppose if hatred is a tradition, it's fine, we should all just go along, because that's tradition.  Why did we ever drop the tradition of stoning women anyways?  That was great, it helped to enforce morality.  You stray from your husband, you die painfully.  Maybe he'll re-enforce the opinion that eating meat on a Friday is a hell worthy tresspass.  I should buy stock in a fishing company. 

The church has grown over the centuries, and while there was never any real hope that someone forward thinking would be elected again (the last Pope definitely helped move the church forward). 

Many here in the Boston area are waiting to see how he stands on the pedophile question.  bernie
law is in a position of prominence at the Vatican.  He was run out of Boston for allowing pedohiles
priests to remain, or be transferred to positions where they were able to repeatedly rape young
boys and girls over and over again. It was brought to his attention many times and the boys who complained were victimized again by the actions of the church making them feel as if they had brought it on themselves.  We are talking as young as 6.  See any morality in that?

Hearing more sense in leaving the Catholic Church as it is an 'organization' which moves criminals around instead of dealing with them..do the Baptists or mormons do that last you heard?

Organized religion? Isn't that like having an imaginary friend??

Earlier in the 2000 letter Ratzinger wrote he stated something to the effect that Catholisism is 'the only way' to heaven...Pluhleeze..But believe what you want....
He can say whatever because that's his job....If he doesn't do something about the problem..I'm outta there support as well.....Q:How can you support an organization that did what it did to people who committed one of the worst crimes against another especially children! 
Oh well...your turn to think on it.... :-[

The new Pope has already said he plans to make changes in direction and make sure his stances on social issues are similar to 'traditional' church values. Fabulous  ::)

If you want an abortion, are Gay, or follow a different faith.. your Fecked.

Glad I'm Going Jewish  ;D

Morality is fine, the morality this Pope is preaching, no thanks.  He's very opposed to anything even slightly liberal,

So favoring charity-giving through the government, opposing almost all wars especially the Iraq war, and opposing the death penalty are not liberal stances?

So favoring charity-giving through the government, opposing almost all wars especially the Iraq war, and opposing the death penalty are not liberal stances?


Nothing wrong with all that.  That is what religions do, of course one wonders who many meals could
have been bought with the pillow of gold thread that JP2 was buried with.  What many question is
his attitudes toward women, it seems to be leaning toward the burka.  There is a tendency among male
dominated religions to suppress women, calling it respect(warped version of respect), paronize in the name of protection.  We will have to wait and see.

No, they just take your money and tell you you're going to hell if you don't give it freely ::)

I'm not defending the Catholic Church by saying this, but these types of things happen in ALL denominations, the Catholic Church's problem with it was just more publicized...


That is probably because it is the only major faith where celebicy is standard practice.  There are such abuses from all faiths, Muslim, Protestant, even Jewish.  I remember about 10 years ago when a similar thing occured in an LA Temple.  And don't forget Boy Scouts.  Or even Michael Jackson.

The problem here is not the religion, is the fact that pedophiles try to get themselves into positions of authority above children.  I do not see this as a "Religious" or "Catholic" problem, but a problem with sick people.  Nor is it always homosexual.  Look at the number of teachers that have been caught with their students.  Some have even been caught multiple times, and even had kids with the students!

Ratzinger's 76 years old. JPII only lived to be 84; I reckon they've picked him to fill the gap until someone else is old enough to fill the position.

We'll see if he lasts longer than John Paul I, of course he may have had little help on his way to the pearly
gates, theories abound :o

We'll see if he lasts longer than John Paul I, of course he may have had little help on his way to the pearly
gates, theories abound :o


Really?  Interesting.  I didn't know there were rumors surounding his death, although it makes sense that there would be considering he lasted all of a month.

Heck, the rumors about Pope Benedict XVI are already floating around. 


Do you mean that he is more or less a Facist who hates everybody that isn't him?

Or something else  ::)

Really? Interesting. I didn't know there were rumors surounding his death, although it makes sense that there would be considering he lasted all of a month.

Read "In God's Name" by David Yallop - JPI was killed, the only doubt is by whom...

There's already some speculation that he didn't totally reject the teachings of the German Army in WWII ::)


What a new low.

The new Pope has already said he plans to make changes in direction and make sure his stances on social issues are similar to 'traditional' church values. Fabulous  ::)

If you want an abortion, are Gay, or follow a different faith.. your Fecked.

If you don't agree with the doctrines of the Roman Catholic church yet still count yourself a Christian, you are free to choose
another denomination. There's lots of them out there with much more liberal views than those espoused by the new Pope.
That's why I can't understand the whole wailing and gnashing of teeth by Catholics worldwide on these issues. There's
really a very simple solution for Catholics that don't agree with the doctrines and that is to leave!

If you don't agree with the doctrines of the Roman Catholic church yet still count yourself a Christian, you are free to choose
another denomination. There's lots of them out there with much more liberal views than those espoused by the new Pope.
That's why I can't understand the whole wailing and gnashing of teeth by Catholics worldwide on these issues. There's
really a very simple solution for Catholics that don't agree with the doctrines and that is to leave!


Oh don't worry.. I am.

I have said my piece on the church many times, i'm sure you can find it if you look. Christianity as a whole strikes me as a crock, however some of us have it thrust upon us.

Anyone else noticed the uncanny resemblance between the new pope and the emperor in Star Wars ?? it's quite freaky! I will try and find the pictures, they were on another message board I saw.

There's already some speculation that he didn't totally reject the teachings of the German Army in WWII ::)


If you're talking about the fact that he was a part of the Nazi Youth when he was a kid... then you should know that pretty much every single little German boy was forced to join it during Hitler's reign.

If you're talking about the fact that he was a part of the Nazi Youth when he was a kid... then you should know that pretty much every single little German boy was forced to join it during Hitler's reign.


not joining the hitler youth would mean inprisonment and his family targeted for harassment or much worse. i read his bio, he never saw combat and he deserted near the end of the war.

I'm glad for three things regarding the new pontiff:

1.  I'm glad to have a pope named neither John nor Paul (nor John Paul).  Change is nice, even though this new pope doesn't like any of the changes we've made in the past 600 years!  I like the name Benedict, though I was hoping for another Pope Innocent!
:-\\
2. I'm glad the old stick-in-the-mud is 78 years old (but if the Church gets more conservative in the next few years, the next pope will probably bring back the Inquisition!)
:o
3. I'm glad I didn't convert to Catholicism because then the old stick-in-the-mud would have some sway over my life, and wouldn't that suck?
;)

Just had a quick peek at some previous popes (http://www.mapsofworld.com/list-of-popes/)

Just think - we could have had a Eugene IV, Anastasius V or Adrian VII (that last one - didn't 'e build a wall?)

But some of their personal names were quite fun, too: Sicco, Poppo and Theophylactus III ??? Holy pontiffs, Batman!

Just had a quick peek at some previous popes (http://www.mapsofworld.com/list-of-popes/)

Just think - we could have had a Eugene IV, Anastasius V or Adrian VII (that last one - didn't 'e build a wall?)

But some of their personal names were quite fun, too: Sicco, Poppo and Theophylactus III ??? Holy pontiffs, Batman!

Pope Eugene?  I don't know man, are we ready for a pope with a big pocket protector in his robe and tape on the bridge of his classes?

I agree with this 1000%

THere is nothing wrong with morality, nothing.  Nor would a more liberal Pope have championed immorality.  The question really boils down to where the church stands on the 2nd Vatican Council (under John 23rd) and issues of social justice, read "liberation theology".  Christ said that the meek "shall inherit the EARTH.  I take that to mean this mass of rock on which we stand, and not "pie in the sky".  Liberation theologists, whom Ratsinger cum Benedictine opposes, have sought to make that inheritance a reality.  Therein lies my problem with the new Pope.


Liberation theology? Isn't that the doctrine which uses Christian beliefs to justify violence and terrorism? It was practised mostly by Latin American guerillas, I think. I sure think there's something wrong with that! It's like Christianity's equivalent to Al-Quaeda and Hezbollah.

Liberation theology? Isn't that the doctrine which uses Christian beliefs to justify violence and terrorism? It was practised mostly by Latin American guerillas, I think. I sure think there's something wrong with that! It's like Christianity's equivalent to Al-Quaeda and Hezbollah.

WRONG!

Liberation theology seeks to interpret the Bible, the Gospels, and the teachings of Christ in a way that favors the struggles of the poor and politically oppressed.  Whereas, the church in Rome serves to make Christianity a tool of empire and favor the rich and powerful.
Mind you, the Vatican does condemn "greed" and "war," but only as a formality.  The Vatican spends most of its time putting the screws to the poor and warning the proles and peasants not to get out of line.  LT is NOT a heretical doctrine on faith, but it does depart from Rome on class issues, and class consciousness is vital for all who struggle under the yoke of tyranny and imperialism.  So, at the same time as the Council of Bishops declared capitalism was incompatible with Christianity, the Pope was condemning LT in Latin America.
Does LT support "terrorism"?  Depends on how you define terrorism.  I would say multinational corporations driving farmers from their land, forcing the urban proletariat into indentured servitude, and the American government violently interfering with popularly elected governments is "terrorism."  By that definition, LT most certainly does NOT support terrorism.  Furthermore, if you want to see the Christian equivalent of Al-Quaeda and Hezbollah, look no further than the Bush administration and the American Fascist Party (Republicans) in Congress.

L'il bit about LT:
http://www.landreform.org/boff2.htm

WRONG!

Liberation theology seeks to interpret the Bible, the Gospels, and the teachings of Christ in a way that favors the struggles of the poor and politically oppressed.  Whereas, the church in Rome serves to make Christianity a tool of empire and favor the rich and powerful.
Mind you, the Vatican does condemn "greed" and "war," but only as a formality.  The Vatican spends most of its time putting the screws to the poor and warning the proles and peasants not to get out of line.  LT is NOT a heretical doctrine on faith, but it does depart from Rome on class issues, and class consciousness is vital for all who struggle under the yoke of tyranny and imperialism.  So, at the same time as the Council of Bishops declared capitalism was incompatible with Christianity, the Pope was condemning LT in Latin America.
Does LT support "terrorism"?  Depends on how you define terrorism.  I would say multinational corporations driving farmers from their land, forcing the urban proletariat into indentured servitude, and the American government violently interfering with popularly elected governments is "terrorism."  By that definition, LT most certainly does NOT support terrorism.  Furthermore, if you want to see the Christian equivalent of Al-Quaeda and Hezbollah, look no further than the Bush administration and the American Fascist Party (Republicans) in Congress.

L'il bit about LT:
http://www.landreform.org/boff2.htm


I stand corrected, Max. Pardon my ignorance.

There's already some speculation that he didn't totally reject the teachings of the German Army in WWII ::)


Hey, I think that a lot of the teaching of the German Army in WWII were pretty good.

Don't forget that the German Army for the most part was not in favor of Adolph Hitler.  They tried as hard as they could to prevent the "Austrian Corporal" from meddling in militart affairs, and to keep his insanity out of the working of the Army.  That was one reason that Himler was allowed the "Waffen SS", so that Hitler could have a free reign in forming a military the way he wanted it.

And most of the Army held the SS and Waffen SS in contempt.  The fact that the SS would kill German Soldiers who "failed their duty" or were not "genetically pure" did not help foster any support either.  Like most beaurocracies, the Army did not care who a person's ancestors were or what they looked like, just so they did their job.  In POW camps, the SS and Waffen SS was seperated from the normal Army, frequently for their own protection.

And don't forget, the Military tried many times to kill Hitler, most spectacularly in the bombing in his bunker, where only luck saved his life.

I wonder how many people in here feel that this is how things should be?

Hey, I think that a lot of the teaching of the German Army in WWII were pretty good.

Don't forget that the German Army for the most part was not in favor of Adolph Hitler.  They tried as hard as they could to prevent the "Austrian Corporal" from meddling in militart affairs, and to keep his insanity out of the working of the Army.  That was one reason that Himler was allowed the "Waffen SS", so that Hitler could have a free reign in forming a military the way he wanted it.

And most of the Army held the SS and Waffen SS in contempt.  The fact that the SS would kill German Soldiers who "failed their duty" or were not "genetically pure" did not help foster any support either.  Like most beaurocracies, the Army did not care who a person's ancestors were or what they looked like, just so they did their job.  In POW camps, the SS and Waffen SS was seperated from the normal Army, frequently for their own protection.

And don't forget, the Military tried many times to kill Hitler, most spectacularly in the bombing in his bunker, where only luck saved his life.

Uh, you don't want to go there, Mush!  You really don't want to go there!  Talk about revisionist history!  The German military only held Hitler in contempt late in the war when it was clear Hitler was a madman who had brought Germany once again to its knees.  Of course they were furious with Hitler's stupid decisions that lost the country the war and turned the place into a smoldering heap.
But, please, let's not fantasize Hitler and the SS were always regarded as a bunch of scumbags who just happened to be in charge!

Uh, you don't want to go there, Mush!  You really don't want to go there!  Talk about revisionist history!  The German military only held Hitler in contempt late in the war when it was clear Hitler was a madman who had brought Germany once again to its knees.  Of course they were furious with Hitler's stupid decisions that lost the country the war and turned the place into a smoldering heap.
But, please, let's not fantasize Hitler and the SS were always regarded as a bunch of scumbags who just happened to be in charge!


Ditto Max.  When the war started taking a turn for the worse the rats decided to desert the ideological ship. If there was as much dissension as Mush would like to believe there would have been more Schindlers and less Himmlers. There are still Jewish people alive who were there, he should talk to them and find out how there compassionate life long neighbors fell into line with propoganda.