Conservatives Head for Victory in New Polls
Reuters
04/17/05

Two new opinion polls released on Saturday put the Conservatives well ahead of the Liberals and one says they are within striking distance of forming a majority government.

The polls provide new evidence of how a government spending scandal is draining support from the Liberals, who formed a minority government after a tight election last year and who need the backing of at least one other party to stay in power.

Speculation has been rising that the opposition will propose a vote of no confidence in the government, and there will be a new election, possibly in June.

"Tories tiptoe into majority territory," the Globe and Mail newspaper said in the headline for its survey, which showed the Conservatives would glean 36 percent voter support if an election were held now.

That is up from 30 percent in a survey by the same polling group less than a week ago.

It also put the Conservatives well ahead of the Liberals, who had 27 percent support. The left-wing New Democratic Party had 15 percent.

"The Conservatives are edging toward a majority as anger with the Liberals becomes more firmly entrenched and (Conservative leader) Stephen Harper begins to earn the trust of Canadians," the paper said.

Pollsters usually say that a party needs to win at least 40 percent support to be guaranteed a majority in the Canadian Parliament.

The survey of 1,000 Canadians, conducted by pollsters Ipsos-Reid, also gave the Conservatives a strong showing in Ontario, where they need to win seats to win power.

Some 39 percent of Ontario voters said they would support the Conservatives, compared to 33 percent for the Liberals and 17 percent for the NDP.

A second poll, conducted by Compas for the National Post newspaper, gave the Conservatives 34 percent voter support, compared to 30 percent for the Liberals and 18 percent for the NDP.

That would be enough for the Conservatives to "squeak out a narrow victory," the paper said.

The Liberals, in power for over a decade, have been hit by reports of kickbacks to the party that allegedly formed part of a costly advertising campaign to promote a united Canada and prevent French-speaking Quebec from breaking away.

The party has been hit particularly hard in Quebec, where the pro-independence Bloc Quebecois is racing ahead in what may be more a protest against perceived corruption among Quebec Liberals than a vote for an independent Quebec.

Fear that there could be another referendum about Quebec sovereignty could hit financial markets and put the Canadian dollar under pressure. Separatists lost last referendum, in 1995, by the narrowest of margins.

The Ipsos-Reid survey showed 41 percent support in the province for the Bloc, which campaigns only in Quebec, and 25 percent for the Liberals. The Conservatives, who have traditionally done poorly in Quebec, would poll 16 percent.

Both polls are considered accurate to within 3.1 percentage points, 19 times out of 20, although the margin of error is greater for individual provinces.

Link: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=841&ncid=841&e=1&u=/nm/20050416/wl_canada_nm/canada_polls_col

you do know that our conservatives are equal to your moderate democrats....

the liberals under chreitian really made a mess of things, a change is needed. like the last two elections i voted reform, since the canadian alliance party (formerly the reform party) and the progressive conservatives melded into one party two years ago, they seem the only alternative choice to take on the liberals.

you do know that our conservatives are equal to your moderate democrats....


You mean it's not on the Canadian conservative agenda to dismantale the national health system and replace it with private for-profit HMOs?
::)

You mean it's not on the Canadian conservative agenda to dismantale the national health system and replace it with private for-profit HMOs?
::)


bingo, although we do have conservatives that would make the Grand Old Party proud.

Yeah, our (USA's) conservatives reveling in a "conservative" victory in Canada is like them welocoming a Hillary presidance in the US.  Good Lord I love Canada.

Yeah, our (USA's) conservatives reveling in a "conservative" victory in Canada is like them welocoming a Hillary presidance in the US. Good Lord I love Canada.


Why don't you move there then??

/beligerentconservative

For a party to even mention the dismantling of the National Health in Canada is political suicide.

The Bloc-Québécois are a major threat to Canadian sovereignty. While I think the Liberals could have gone about this affair better, I can't say I blame them. It's because of the Chrétien government that the Liberals have enough of a stronghold in Québéc to have warded off the possible success of the '95 referendum. Hopefully, if a new referendum is put up, other parties like the Liberals and the NDP will be able to flout the seperatists once again.

Don't be fooled, however. The New Conservatives have their own battallion of Bush-style Neo-cons. Ever visit www.proudtobecanadian.com? It's the homepage of Canada's answer to Ann Coulter.

I am personally an NDP man, and I am so glad they are gaining a foothold. I think, as with past elections, they will continue to see steady increases in support with each election. I encourage Canadian voters on this forum to research the NDP before making the rash decision to hand power over to the Bush-lovers (no pun intended whatsoever) waiting on the waysides of the NCP. Vote your conscience, but be careful not to jeopardise Canada's progressive legacy by allowing the NCP to run the show entirely.

In any case... we all know how polls are. If the NCP does win next election, I am confident it will be a minority government. I am also sure that they will f*ck things up rather quickly and new elections will be called for within 3-5 years if that.

i vote NDP in the provincial elections. our MLA is an NDP and he does wonders for us in our riding, being a huge mining and therefore union region.

i wouldn't attempt to vote for them federally. i used to be liberal, now that's shattered, i'm placing my hopes with the new conservatives, only because i live out west, we need representation in ottawa.

The Bloc-Québécois are a major threat to Canadian sovereignty. While I think the Liberals could have gone about this affair better, I can't say I blame them. It's because of the Chrétien government that the Liberals have enough of a stronghold in Québéc to have warded off the possible success of the '95 referendum. Hopefully, if a new referendum is put up, other parties like the Liberals and the NDP will be able to flout the seperatists once again.



Now I don't live in Canada, but I think anybody who doesn't live in Quebec needs to shut up and let them decide if they want to be a part of Canada.

Don't be fooled, however. The New Conservatives have their own battallion of Bush-style Neo-cons. Ever visit www.proudtobecanadian.com? It's the homepage of Canada's answer to Ann Coulter.

I've been to that site a lot.  Nice to some non-brainwashed Canadians talking about something other than hockey, not being America, and why Bush should be in jail.

Proud to be Canadian
It's a question, not a statement
;D

Now I don't live in Canada, but I think anybody who doesn't live in Quebec needs to shut up and let them decide if they want to be a part of Canada.

First off, that's the dumbest thing I've read from you in a while. Québec IS a Canadian province and every Canadian is entitles to his/her two cents on the matter. It just so happens that it isn't as simple as you portray it to be. Not only would Québec's separation split the country apart, with the maritimes on one side and Ontario and the Westerns on the other, but all of Canada has invested so much in the province that it's more than just a referendum issue. Hydro-Québec, the hydroelectric power plant which supplies a wide area encompassing more than one province (and I think, even some areas in American states) with electric power sits in Québec (and let me tell you that the Québécois did not pay for that on their own). Many Canadian natural resources rest in Québec. Not only that, but there are millions of Non-Francophones living there, in a province whose official language is French.

My father is a native of Montréal, and obviously he is an Anglophone. Nearly 20% of the people in Québec are as well.


I've been to that site a lot.  Nice to some non-brainwashed Canadians talking about something other than hockey, not being America, and why Bush should be in jail.

Proud to be Canadian
It's a question, not a statement
;D


Brainwashed? By whom exactly? By what? There's no money in Liberalism. That Johannsen guy is twice as dumb as Coulter and thrice as ugly. He hates Canada. He wishes for its demise and hopes it should join the U.S.

While those poll numbers are interesting there was also a poll last week that had the numbers as
:  PC  - 33
  Lib  - 27
  NDP - 24
Which seemed to demonstrate a loss to the LIB but a big (5 point) gain by the Dipper's (Socialists)
And a number that's not mentioned only 11% of people actually want an election.
Also more people trust Paul Martin as opposed to Stephen Harper (bland vs dull).
I think we will see the end of the inquiry into the sponsorship scandal then an election will be called/forced.

Anyway we can speculate all we want about an election but the LIBs do have a big electoral machine and the PCs have a great habit of openning their mouths and inserting both feet as happened last election.

Why don't you move there then??

/beligerentconservative


I could chance getting banned and be nasty, but I will refrain, and answer this (explitive deleted) question (from a self- proclained "beligerentconservative) with a straight face and a good deal of restraint.  I don't move to Canada, or Austrailia, or New Zeland, or any other civilized nation because I am, as the Chileans use to call me when I lived there doing my doctoral dissertation research, a Estadis Udensense (a United Statesian).  I guess you could say that I believe in the Vietnam War taunt leveled at protestors "love it or leave it".  Well, it is my country, and I do love it, for what it promises (and doesn't deliver, but could), and I'm NOT going to be driven out by a bunch of chicken hawks, necons,  neofascists, christian (no cap intentional) fundamentalists, or any other group of fanatical a..holes.  No, as a true American, I will stay and fight to make this country (to steal an army recruiting solgan) "the best that it can be" which to my lights is far short of where we are now heading. That's the mild, reserved version. I hope it  answers your question?

Don Carlos, a beligerentleftist

For a party to even mention the dismantling of the National Health in Canada is political suicide.


And the American Fascist Party (Republican) knows this, that's why they and their pharmaceutical/insurance paymasters KILLED even the Clinton Administration's modest healthcare reforms of the early '90s.  They know once Americans get even a partially nationalized healthcare system, the jig is up for corporate-looter healthcare.

And the American Fascist Party (Republican) knows this, that's why they and their pharmaceutical/insurance paymasters KILLED even the Clinton Administration's modest healthcare reforms of the early '90s. They know once Americans get even a partially nationalized healthcare system, the jig is up for corporate-looter healthcare.


"But my cousin's best friend's mother's ex-roomate's step cousin twice removed who lives in Canada had to wait 2,347 months for a hip replacement! Booga booga! Screw me some more, insurance companies! Please!"

;D Couldn't resist.

And the American Fascist Party (Republican) knows this, that's why they and their pharmaceutical/insurance paymasters KILLED even the Clinton Administration's modest healthcare reforms of the early '90s.  They know once Americans get even a partially nationalized healthcare system, the jig is up for corporate-looter healthcare.


The polls showed hardly anyone supported Hillary care.  The republicans rightly drew the line in the sand and told them "NO!"

Americans aren't falling for the government healthcare lie, and it bugs the hell out of the few extreme democrats that support it.  No one wants to take the private out of their healthcare, no one wants the tax increases or the deficits or both that come along with it.  Screw it, the national healthcare debate is dead in America, it's over, no one fell for the big lie, move on, it's been over a decade since the Clinton healthcare plan crashed and burned.

Americans aren't falling for the government healthcare lie, and it bugs the hell out of the few extreme democrats that support it.  No one wants to take the private out of their healthcare, no one wants the tax increases or the deficits or both that come along with it.  Screw it, the national healthcare debate is dead in America, it's over, no one fell for the big lie, move on, it's been over a decade since the Clinton healthcare plan crashed and burned.


Hold the phone Horatio!  Single payer health care may not be on the national agenda at the moment, but it is certainly on the agenda of the Vermont legislature, where we already lead the nation in the %age of those insured by the state.  Health care, like education, is a right.  No one should have to chose between paying the doctor and paying the rent/mortgage.  So I guess Vermonters aren't "Americans" since the overwhelming majority do want universal access to health care.  Most of us in Vermont recognize the "rationing" that takes place NOW in health care services, and the enormous and unnecessary cost of "emergancy room primary care", which is what the uninsured rely on. And most of us in Vermont are willing to see tax increases to provide universal access to primary and preventative care for all of us.  But then, Vermont has always been ahead of the curve.  What a great place to live - people actually CARE about the well being of their neighbors, and are willing to back up their concern with deeds.  I love this little state.

Hold the phone Horatio!  Single payer health care may not be on the national agenda at the moment, but it is certainly on the agenda of the Vermont legislature, where we already lead the nation in the %age of those insured by the state.  Health care, like education, is a right.  No one should have to chose between paying the doctor and paying the rent/mortgage.  So I guess Vermonters aren't "Americans" since the overwhelming majority do want universal access to health care.  Most of us in Vermont recognize the "rationing" that takes place NOW in health care services, and the enormous and unnecessary cost of "emergancy room primary care", which is what the uninsured rely on. And most of us in Vermont are willing to see tax increases to provide universal access to primary and preventative care for all of us.  But then, Vermont has always been ahead of the curve.  What a great place to live - people actually CARE about the well being of their neighbors, and are willing to back up their concern with deeds.  I love this little state.


States cannot fully socialize their healthcare due to the federal government.  Vermont can do all it wants, but unless the federal government does something, some people in Vermont will still be uninsured.  Why not spend time finding jobs for those people so they don't become dependent?

Last time a Conseravtive was in power in Canada, he just about ruined Canada by signing the free trade agreement. I will never vote PC.

Last time a Conseravtive was in power in Canada, he just about ruined Canada by signing the free trade agreement. I will never vote PC.


Go, Whitewolf!

www.ndp.ca

My vote will be going to the Bloc Quebecois.

States cannot fully socialize their healthcare due to the federal government.  Vermont can do all it wants, but unless the federal government does something, some people in Vermont will still be uninsured.  Why not spend time finding jobs for those people so they don't become dependent?


The bill coming out of the joint House/Senate health care committee proposes universal coverage/single payer/tax supported primary and preventative care by 2007, if memory serves, and total coverage by 2009.  If the proposal passes, and overcomes the likely veto, every Vermont resident WILL be insured, and it need not require any action on the part of the Federal government.  Its rules regarding Medicare and Medicaide would still apply.

The problem with relying on the private sector to provide heath insurance in a state like Vermont are myriade.  For starters, with few exceptions, most employers are small businesses with very low profit margins, and therefore can't afford to provide health insurance evan if they want to, as many have said they do.  There are also a large number of self employed in Vermont who may or may not be able to aford private insurance. 

I know there are pitfalls to the single payer idea, and frankly, being insured myself, I do worry about them.  Nonetheless, I believe (and I know you will disagree) that access to primary and preventative care (at a minimum) should be considered a human right and not a privilege of wealth or employment status.  The health of my relatively poor neighbor's kid is as much a concern to me as my own health, or that of my (uninsured) working and student daughters.  But I guess that is a Vermont attitude.

The bill coming out of the joint House/Senate health care committee proposes universal coverage/single payer/tax supported primary and preventative care by 2007, if memory serves, and total coverage by 2009. If the proposal passes, and overcomes the likely veto, every Vermont resident WILL be insured, and it need not require any action on the part of the Federal government. Its rules regarding Medicare and Medicaide would still apply.

The problem with relying on the private sector to provide heath insurance in a state like Vermont are myriade. For starters, with few exceptions, most employers are small businesses with very low profit margins, and therefore can't afford to provide health insurance evan if they want to, as many have said they do. There are also a large number of self employed in Vermont who may or may not be able to aford private insurance.

I know there are pitfalls to the single payer idea, and frankly, being insured myself, I do worry about them. Nonetheless, I believe (and I know you will disagree) that access to primary and preventative care (at a minimum) should be considered a human right and not a privilege of wealth or employment status. The health of my relatively poor neighbor's kid is as much a concern to me as my own health, or that of my (uninsured) working and student daughters. But I guess that is a Vermont attitude.


I wonder if the weather influences it? Seriously, all of the cold weather, people naturally have to band together more anyway. And look at the Nordic countries(lands of the midnight sun), they are all socialistic. Canada too..just a thought.

I wonder if the weather influences it? Seriously, all of the cold weather, people naturally have to band together more anyway. And look at the Nordic countries(lands of the midnight sun), they are all socialistic. Canada too..just a thought.


it's not so crazy actually. the weather does play a huge role in how it affects our behaviour. just an opinion based on observation over so many years: canadians are just nicer people, we have to get along during the long winter months. like i said earlier in this thread, even our right wing is very moderate compared to the american template.

My vote will be going to the Bloc Quebecois.


T'es du Québec, Limblifter?

Pourquoi, exactement, veut-tu séparer le Québec de la reste du Canada?

T'es du Québec, Limblifter?

Pourquoi, exactement, veut-tu séparer le Québec de la reste du Canada?


Yep, born and raised. Have lived here for 29 years, speak french fluently. But can't write it worth a lick :P

My vote for the Bloc is not a vote for separation. And from what i've been able to gather, most of the population of Quebec no longer feel a need to separate. That fire has long burned out, too bad the rest of Canada won't let it go already. Yeah there are a few "seppies" left, but no where near the numbers they had in 95. My vote for the Bloc is to make sure that my best interests as a Quebecer and a Canadian are met. While the rest of the country is divided among Liberals, CONservatives, and New Democrats, here in Quebec we stand together to make sure that our voices are heard loud and clear. I mean seriously, how do you think Lucien Bouchard was able to become the leader of a separatist party that would turn out to be the official opposition? Unity. No matter what people who look in on us think, when the chips are down, most Quebecers stand together whether they are english or french.

In Quebec you either vote Liberal, or Bloc. I used to vote Liberal, but that has all changed since the sponsorship scandal. Which is tough because I actually like Paul Martin. He represents my home riding, and I think he'd be a great leader if given the chance. But this ordeal has left a bad taste in my mouth, and the Liberals must pay.

Yep, born and raised. Have lived here for 29 years, speak french fluently. But can't write it worth a lick :P

My vote for the Bloc is not a vote for separation. And from what i've been able to gather, most of the population of Quebec no longer feel a need to separate. That fire has long burned out, too bad the rest of Canada won't let it go already. Yeah there are a few "seppies" left, but no where near the numbers they had in 95. My vote for the Bloc is to make sure that my best interests as a Quebecer and a Canadian are met. While the rest of the country is divided among Liberals, CONservatives, and New Democrats, here in Quebec we stand together to make sure that our voices are heard loud and clear. I mean seriously, how do you think Lucien Bouchard was able to become the leader of a separatist party that would turn out to be the official opposition? Unity. No matter what people who look in on us think, when the chips are down, most Quebecers stand together whether they are english or french.

In Quebec you either vote Liberal, or Bloc. I used to vote Liberal, but that has all changed since the sponsorship scandal. Which is tough because I actually like Paul Martin. He represents my home riding, and I think he'd be a great leader if given the chance. But this ordeal has left a bad taste in my mouth, and the Liberals must pay.



It was on the news the other night that Quebec still wants to seperate.

Not wantin to step on anyones toes here, but not all quebecers stand together, if they did the french party would be in power by now. Because Quebec wants everything that Canada has to offer and to hell with the other provinces. That is why they wanted to seperate in the first place.

There's no doubt that there are more than a "few" seperatists left in Québec. I am sure it depends on where you live. If one lives in Montréal, he is less likely to encounter the seppie banter on a day to day basis. But if one lives in Trois Rivières or Québec City, he is much more likely to be in Seperatist country. It's something that has become part of the Québécois mythos... that they somehow must have a seperate nation, whether or not it would jeopardise the well being of the province or the rest of Canada. Until that fact is kneaded out, many people will still believe it's essential, and the Bloc will be the Seperatist Party.

Pop's from Montréal, but he never refers to himself as a "Quebecker." Always a "Canadian."

Seriously peeps, I can't stress this enough. If you were once a Liberal voter, how can you so easily make the jump to the opposite end of the spectrum? Check out the NDP... couldn't hurt to give their material a glance.

Why I am scared of the PC party coming back into power... again.

Two words...

Brian Mulroney.  ::)

Why I am scared of the PC party coming back into power... again.

Two words...

Brian Mulroney.  ::)


that's the a-hole I was thinking of.

I'm still pondering how a ountry can go from a guy like Trudeau to someone like Mulroney... Beats me.

I'm still pondering how a ountry can go from a guy like Trudeau to someone like Mulroney... Beats me.


you think reagan had something to do with that?

I'm still pondering how a ountry can go from a guy like Trudeau to someone like Mulroney... Beats me.


people getting suckered into voting PC

I wonder if the weather influences it? Seriously, all of the cold weather, people naturally have to band together more anyway. And look at the Nordic countries(lands of the midnight sun), they are all socialistic. Canada too..just a thought.


Flash:  The Vermont house, in a mostly partisan vote, and NOT by a  veto-proof majority, just passed their Universal Health Care act.  Now it goes to the Senate, which is more Democratic that the house. 

Your "climate theory" may have merit (Arnold Toynbee used climate to explain the rise and spread of civilization ages ago)  but I don't think that any one factor is causative.  People in Vermont tend to "hole up" in the winter, isolating themselves, and suffer from "cabin fever".  One could also argue that those in more tropical climes are more outgoing - like my Puerto Rican relatives, dozens of whom gather for New Years Eve parties, roast a lechon (pig - yummy), dance, drink, eat, sing, and otherwise entwine themselves with loved ones and family (not always the same thing).  I'm just not sure.

I do know that, of all the places I have lived, Vermont seems to be the most caring.  Up-state New York was nothing like Vermont, and I moved south when I came here.  Climate mkay be a factor, but I think we need to look deeper for an explanation, part of which might have to do with an historical political culture and maybe some negatives about Vermont, which tends to be rather cliquish.

Well, as a Canadian, thought I'd add my two cents.

No way in hell would I vote PC. Brian Mulroney screwed us over bad. (who, by last reports, is living quite comfortably in the US)

Saying that however, I will vote for whatever party promises to get us the hell outta NAFTA. And that, by the sounds of it, is the NDP.
I would also vote for the first party that promises to legalize Marijuana.

The Liberals screwed up bad, now they pay for it.

As for the Bloc? Sure seperate, but only take what you came into Confederation with. My history books tell me it's a fairly small chunk of land, along the St Laurent.. yeah I'm still bitter that one province has forced bilingualism across the country but it's a fine in that province if you use an english only sign. Discimination is discrimination. God save the Queen, Quebec

Not voting for PC, Canada has been screwed over by them too often, the Liberal part has no idea what it's doing, and the NDP will never get elected, thanks to the backlash against Bob Rae.

Which means... (shrudders) the PC will voted in.  ::)

I lived in Potsdam NY from 1980 to 1986, and remember Brian very well.  We use to watch The National and the Journal every night, and I must say that (was it Nick Nulty?) and the main reporter on The Journal portion regularly pilloried him.  The woman, whose name I can't recall, called him a liar, mincing no words, over some fishing issue.  Now thats agressive news.  I hope that tradition continues.  GO New Democratic Party!

Canada is a parliamamentary commonwealth, America is a Fascist empire.  The chief ethos that maintains the popularity of empire among the citizens is a love of cruelty and injustice.  One has to convince the population at large that might makes right.  The implicit message sent to Americans regarding the misfortunes of our fellow citizens is "better them than me." 
A guy like GWB2004 would hate national health care because people who make less money than he does DO NOT DESERVE to live as well as he does.  It tickles him pink that the taxpayers pay for his eye exams via pork barrel defense spending for Lockheed, while little Black children in the slums of Atlanta are walking around malnourished.  He'll deny it to the bitter end, but it's true.  It makes him feel more secure.
Back in the 1880s when the sun never set on the British empire and when the greatest riches of the world fell under the control of the Union Jack, the life expectancy for a working class male was 20 years.  Teenaged girls in London prostituted themselves for a loaf of bread and a pint of gin. 
When a republic becomes an empire, the masses suffer for the wealth of the few.  America was an imperial power by the turn of the 20th century, and at that time resembled Britain socially.  The British empire was cut off at the knees by WWI, and then killed off by WWII.  Now America is the global empire. 
When one votes Republican, one votes for the priorities of Fascism and empire, not the priorities of social justice and civic life.  The Republicans, in league with the Fascist lapdog media, have been mendacious to the American public about their platform.  Millions of people actually believe Bush is serious about a "culture of life," and that Tom DeLay cared about Terri Schiavo.  NOTHING could be farther from the truth.  Bush and DeLay are afflicted with the sociopathology of power
Like the empires of Rome, Portugal, Spain, Holland, France,  Britain, and the USSR, the American empire WILL crumble under its own weight.  When American culture REALLY feels the humiliation of abandonment by the corporate rulers of the kleptocratic empire, the hubris of imperial consciousness may ebb away.
Maybe even guys like GWB will see the Bushes are no more interested in his well-being than the well-being of the hungry and homeless.

Some may find it puzzling that the American government wants to put a guy as sick and violent as John Bolton in the post of U.N. Ambassador, but the explanation is quite simple.  Remember how insane the cabinet of Hitler's Third Reich was?  Think of guys such as Goebbels, Himmler, Mengala, and Eichmann, that's the mentality we are dealing with.  If the analogy continues, the American Fascist Party (Republicans) may implode in as little as ten years!

Flash:  The Vermont house, in a mostly partisan vote, and NOT by a  veto-proof majority, just passed their Universal Health Care act.  Now it goes to the Senate, which is more Democratic that the house. 



Are you sure you haven't heard it may insure the majority of Vermont's residents, or that it is an extension of medicare and medicaid?  I don't think a state can legalize universal healthcare because of the federal government's laws.  Kind of like when Alaska, for a very very brief period, legalized pot and the federal government said "no way" and went in with a search warrant and guns blarring and started arresting people in Alaska.  That law was quickly scraped if I remember correctly.

One thing that gets me is how a state that elected Bernie Sanders (spell check) and Jim Jeffords could have perhaps the most lax gun laws, more lax than Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, Florida, Virginia, and even Utah.  In Vermont anyone who can legally own a gun can legally carry it, concealed or not, permit or no permit, state resident or out-of-state-resident, anywhere at anytime.  The world turned upside down.

I think you miss heard something.  And the governor is a republican, right (may be mixing Vermont with Connecticut)?

I'm sorry but socialized government health care?  I'd rather poke a hornet's nest with a short stick.

Are you sure you haven't heard it may insure the majority of Vermont's residents, or that it is an extension of medicare and medicaid?  I don't think a state can legalize universal healthcare because of the federal government's laws.  Kind of like when Alaska, for a very very brief period, legalized pot and the federal government said "no way" and went in with a search warrant and guns blarring and started arresting people in Alaska.  That law was quickly scraped if I remember correctly.

One thing that gets me is how a state that elected Bernie Sanders (spell check) and Jim Jeffords could have perhaps the most lax gun laws, more lax than Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, Florida, Virginia, and even Utah.  In Vermont anyone who can legally own a gun can legally carry it, concealed or not, permit or no permit, state resident or out-of-state-resident, anywhere at anytime.  The world turned upside down.

I think you miss heard something.  And the governor is a republican, right (may be mixing Vermont with Connecticut)?

I'm sorry but socialized government health care?  I'd rather poke a hornet's nest with a short stick.

Uh, you have government subsidized healthcare.  The entire defense industry is government subsidized, and most of it pork, corporate welfare, and inflated costs bilked out of the taxpayers.  Only a fraction of what the defense industry does has anything to do with actually protecting America from enemies foreign and domestic.
Like I said in another thread, you have fallen victim to the vile maxim of the GOP, "all for me and none for anyone else." (N. Chomsky)
If Vermont was fraught with gangland murders, drive-by-shootings, and schoolyard massacres, I might feel a bit more uptight about the state's lax gun laws.  Most VT shootings seem to be the fault of drunken hunters.

Are you sure you haven't heard it may insure the majority of Vermont's residents, or that it is an extension of medicare and medicaid?  I don't think a state can legalize universal healthcare because of the federal government's laws.  Kind of like when Alaska, for a very very brief period, legalized pot and the federal government said "no way" and went in with a search warrant and guns blarring and started arresting people in Alaska.  That law was quickly scraped if I remember correctly.

One thing that gets me is how a state that elected Bernie Sanders (spell check) and Jim Jeffords could have perhaps the most lax gun laws, more lax than Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, Florida, Virginia, and even Utah.  In Vermont anyone who can legally own a gun can legally carry it, concealed or not, permit or no permit, state resident or out-of-state-resident, anywhere at anytime.  The world turned upside down.

I think you miss heard something.  And the governor is a republican, right (may be mixing Vermont with Connecticut)?

I'm sorry but socialized government health care?  I'd rather poke a hornet's nest with a short stick.


I know what I read.  The Vermont House of Representatives passed a bill that would, if implemented, insure EVER residant of the state of Vermont for primary and preventative health care by 2007, and would provide additional care by 2009.  That is the law that passed the Vt house.  It will likely pass the state senate, and be vetoed by our (yes) Republican governor.

Yes, we in Vermont do believe in the 2nd amendment, and since gun crimes here are among the  lowest in the nation, we see no need to infringe on those rights with restrictions.  Our gun owners are law abiding and mostly responsible (just don't rile them up).

And when you poke tyhat hornet's nest with a short stick, I hope your health insurance will cover you for injuries sustained in an act of stupidity (no offence intended - I know you wouldn't do that, but I hope you get my point).