THIS IS SEMI-LIGHT HEARTED QUESTION :

We've had lotsa debates about whether or not people believe in God or not but, lets say there is a surpreme being then why did he bother creating mankind and in doing so put us on a tiny planet on the outskirts of a universe which, to follow the scheme whereby God is the fount of all things, is rather spacious and his creation. I mean, I'm not complaining but, ya know, I wouldn't want to pick up the heating bill either, but the universe must have some purpose for God.

I just find it rather disturbing that we were created as his little playthings to act out some ongoing role in a soap opera called life. To what divine purpose? If we are to believe the bible it is clear that this particular show DOES have a sell by date and that judgement day is a-coming.

Soooooo... we were created a few thousand years ago, we run around on the planet, go to church (for those who do) and live a christian life (for those who do) and then BAM it all comes to end either with  our death with the world carrying on after us or in armageddon when... well, Game Over and the 'good' people head off to heaven, the liberals go to purgatory and the really bad folk take the express elevator to the hothouse !

I guess you could ask the question - Does God believe in us and WHY ? Apart from his own inexplicable amusement and pleasure I can't think of a reason he'd want, need or even like having us around. Maybe Heaven's a bit dull without us ? Perhaps the theologians amongst us could give me the heads up on this as its one question I never asked in bible class when I was a believer.

I realise to many believers the answer maybe that you do not question the will of God, but if anyone's got any thoughts or explanations fromthe bible or elsewhere then I'd be interested to hear them.

I don't know, but I need you to look at this thread: http://www.inthe00s.com/index.php/topic,9185.0.html

:P

I figure you might be of some use..

Oh, and perhaps we are a science experiment? Perhaps "God" is part of a larger world of his own?

Soooooo... we were created a few thousand years ago...

About 100-150,000 years ago actually (according to current understanding)


I realise to many believers the answer maybe that you do not question the will of God, but if anyone's got any thoughts or explanations fromthe bible or elsewhere then I'd be interested to hear them.

I say question everything!
"Do not question God's will" is a complete cop out, of course it should be questioned.
I have questioned this and come to the considered conclusion that the whole theory of God is BS.
If we are infact "God's playthings" then Christianity seriously needs to overhaul it's ideas to have any relevence.  There are so many contradictions that I can't understand why any intelligent human being could fail to spot them.

I have NO respect whatsoever for the people who beleive (and even worse, preach) the doctrine of not questioning.  These people are responsible for allowing ALL the atrocities in human history (most of which were carried out in the name of God and therefore must be God's will - go figure?).

Why not?

God was lonely and wanted someone to love Him.

God was lonely and wanted someone to love Him.

Oops, this would mean god has faults!
If god needs mankind then mankind has power over god, this violates the property of omnipotence which is usually attributed to god..

When God created men, she was joking  ;)

When God created men, she was joking  ;)



You got that right, sister.  ;D ;D





Cat

Oops, this would mean god has faults!
If god needs mankind then mankind has power over god, this violates the property of omnipotence which is usually attributed to god..


of coarse He has faults. for one, He's a lousy father. only His blind followers see's Him as omnipotent.

You got that right, sister.  ;D ;D

Cat


;)

"I don't want to start any blasphemous rumours, but I think that God's got a sick sense of humor and when I die, I expect to find him laughing...."

awww I am sorry that you feel that way.  I think that He is a wonderful creator and I am glad that He created mankind.

It's one hell of a question isn't it?  I mean as human beings the thought of not knowing something drives us either crazy or to a belief that whatever there is to be known, doesn't exist, or we'd already know it.

Now I have no idea why God created mankind, I mean the Bible gives us simple explanations, but to me, I suppose I could only hope for a story hour where God sits around and say's, "This is why I did this, this is why this happened, this is why".


Why......is what it really comes down to.

WHy....a simple 3 letter word...with a very simple definition....yet it's power is most above any word.

That is a very good point Harmonica.  I also believe that it comes down to why.  God does not need to explain anything He does.  He does things for a reason such as creating mankind for a specific reason.

I'm sorry that some of you have been hurt or have not found the love of God in your lives.  Boy, these topics seem to gather many.  The funny thing is that it is good to be somewhat skeptical.  There's nothing wrong with that.  A true skeptic is asking questions but a sinacle skeptic is just a negative person.  If you truly skeptical then keep asking but if you find the answer then don't hestitate.  Christ said "seek and you will find, knock and it will be opened to you.  What door are you knocking on though? I do know that for some reason He bothered to create us with all of our complexity.  It's frosting but also beautiful, that He, the God of all creation, would consider to create and breath life into us.  That in itself a mystery.  I know we what the answers right this minute, but there are just some things that will always be a mystery.  You might think that's a cop-out, I'm sorry.  ??? As much as the humankind have gathered in knowledge, that's one thing about God that frustrates us, and that is, He Rufus's to give us all the answers.  If he did, would we truly comprehend it? :D

Sorry for so many misspellings.  My husband and daughter were horseplayingaround me and couldn't concentrate.

I agree with you totally xer.  If we did know everything as to why God did certain things, would we really understand and plus we dont want to be a know it all world.  It just isn't right and I think the fact that somethings are unexplainable is good.  We do not need to know everything and I believe that God created us for a wonderful reason.  Sometimes I wonder as to why He created us and not just left it to the way things were, but I am glad that He gave me life and I am here on this earth because He has a special reason and purpose for me.

Yes!  He had a reason and perpose for all of us.  The thing is many go through life without reaching thier full potential and the only way you can find that is with Your Creator.  He knows us best.  He knows our fears, joys, defeeats, and tryumphs.  He knows our hearts and what is inside them.  Many times though we're afriean of really reaching out to God because we think He'll zap us or something.

Sorry again.  My mind goes faster than my fingers. :D

lucifer lightbringer gave us the gift of knowledge. God appears to want us to live in obediance to Him and to live in ignorance of the truth. my faith in God has taken a new road as of late. i believe in him but i believe in the divinity of satan. i guess that makes me a duelist. i'm reading more in gnosticism and the creation of the christian church and how the two conflicted on the origins of jesus christ. the gnostics believe that jesus was a direct decendant of satan by way of samael mating with lillieth and the resulting offspring was cain. this evidence lies with the apocrypha books that were left out of the bible for obvious reasons.

do i believe in a church that was made by a committee to manipulate the masses or do i delve deeper into the ancient gnostic beliefs of the duality of God and satan.

unlike those who posted, i demand to know the truth of God or i die (or go insane) trying.

Don't you see that the origianal lie of Satan.  He tempted Eve in the Garden.  Gen.3:1-5 "Now the serpent was more subtile than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made.  And he said unto the womean, 'Yea, hath God said, ye shall not eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden?
2 and the woman said unto the serpent.  WE many eat of the fuit of the trees of the garden:
3 but of the furit of the tree which is in the misdst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, niether shall ye tough it.
4 and the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surley die
5 for God doth know that in the day ye eat there of then your eayes shall be opened and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

Lucifer was his name givento him by God.  He was the most beautiful angel in heaven, however, what God made for his delight, Lucifer lusted in his own heart to have God's position and he wants to be God.  God wared with him and his angel and threew them down to earth.  Satan heates god so much and people because he loves them, that satan will decieve any who will listen.  Our ways are not God's ways.  That's what faith is about and trust.  I have a 12 year old and I tell her things that protect her.  If she disobeys, she runs the risk of getting hurt  or doing something that will harm her.  She maynot see what I see.  That's where she needs to trust my judgement.  We need to trust God's.

That's what I meant, What door are you knocking on?  Jesus said I'm the way, the TRUTH and the life;
Either you take him at his word or you don't.  I'm a student of Hebrew, learning the original meanings if the language.  I'm limited in the knowledge and I've had a dream where Satan has visited me and I've had a dream where Christ visited me.  I am an intercessor and have had many times battled in spiritual warfare.  I know Satan and I know God.  Satan is the prince of darkness.  Why do you think this is new?  This is as old as Creation it's self.  Yes, Satan have more knowledge than we do, but where do you think he got it from.  God.  i have know my Heavenly Father intently.  I asked Him once why He waits until the last minute to when I need him most.  His response was " I want you to know that it is Me working in your life."  This may sound redundant but I'll say it anyway.  He tests us to see where we stand in our heart.  Another thing Satan is famous for is putting doubt in the Word OD God.  He wants us to doubt God.  I do know Satan all to well and he doesn't have my best interests at heart.  He's not my creator or yours.

the original sin was miscengenation. a mortal woman mating with a nephilim. just one of the reasons why i no longer believe in the king james bible.

Have you ever looked into Hebrew.  They are the origanal writings. I do know that the King James has some indiscrempencies because it was tranlated over to Greek.  There can be up to 15 meanings for example of the same word depending upon the context.  I do understand that someone probobly let you down or you've runinto hypocrits.  I understand that fully.  yes i'm a christian, I do walk by faith not by sight, i know My Heavenly Father very intimately, I've seen the effects of Satan in peoples lives.  In no way am I trying to attack you.  You probably have honest concerns and are seeking.  I want you to know that I don't want to attack you.  I'm sharing information.  I also want you to know that I've been a Christian since 91 and have studied not only the Word but have studied several other religions.  What it boils down to is you can be religious bout anything.  Christians can be religious, Buddhists can be religious, and so on.  i don't want religion, I want a close walk with My Father.  That's the difference.  There are so many who think if they do this, this and that, it's a formula to reach God or a "higher Power".  What people aren't realizing is that God has provided a way.  Form the beginning with Adam and Eve and their descendent's, there has always been someone who has had fellowship with God or tunned and followed Satan.  Cain and Able.  Cain (Keyn- Hebrew) mans yes.  Cain should have been a yes man.  Able in a round about way means sheep herder.

i still have my faith in God. i just now believe in gnostic dualism. it's what i was searching for for years. i believe the beast lies in all of us and to control the beast one has to make peace with it. i have. if my soul is damned to a life of eternal damnation, so be it, only God can do that. i'll be learning more in the years to come, i'm actually quite excited in the path that God has laid before me.

That's one gift that God has given all of us, the gift of free will.  John 3:12  If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you heanvenly things? 

John3:16  For Godso loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, (Jesus-Yeshua) that whosoever believeth in him should not parish, but have everlasting life.
   
      17 For god sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Colossian 1:13  Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son;
 
              14  In whom we gave redemption through his BLOOD, even the forgiveness of sins.

              15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the first born of every creature.

                16  For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visisble and invisisble, whether they be thrones, or dominions,or principalities (demons), or Powers (Satan); all things were created by him and for him.

            17    and he is before all things, and be him all things consist.

Go Godess, how does one respond?  I really don't believe that God "created" us, certainly not as described in Genisis.  I fact, I  would say that WE created God in our own image(s).

I 'm an atheist, so I think this is all rather kooky.

Don Carlos Hi.  I figured I'd get some heat.  That's okay.  I'm not sure what you mean by respond?  iI'm no godess but thanks anyway. :D

Hi Alex.  The funny thing is I know the church has dropped the ball for many years and had wounded many in the proses.  In stead of loving one anther like we're suppose to, we get all caught up in thongs that don't matter, so the world wonders if the church is a blessing a curse.  The latter is probably more propionate.  The reason I said this is because we're suppose to be living proof and if we're not living for Christ whole heartily and showing his love than people will not look at him that way.  That's why I think why people are ethicist or what have you.  I honestly believe that if a person truly knew God's love they would except it.  Unfortunately, so many go through life graving it.  i wish the church would be the church God had called them to be and stop playing  church.  People like you and on this board need to know that He does love them, enough to die for them.  I'm so very sorry for that.  I never want to be like guys, I want to be real, not a fake.  I know there's many fakes out there.  I know I don't know you personally and vise-versa.  I remember a time when I down down prostrate on the floor and cried until I thought I couldn't take anymore.  I felt like I was literally being torn in half emotionally.  After I was through, the Lord put it on my heart to pray for someone.  I didn't know who.  He told me to intercede.  God gave me a glimpse of how much he loved that person.  If I only felt a fration of that love, how great his love must be for us.  You also.  You may not believe, but it doesn't stop it from being the truth.  I might not believe in gravity, but it not going to stop being true if I jump off the Empire State Building.  I'll go splat. ;D

soory again, my mind goes faster than my fingers. :D

Oops, this would mean god has faults!


NO! NEVER! NEVER NEVER NEVER!  ;D

I am on Xer's side on this one.  I believe that God's powers are more than what we as humans need to know about.  Be thankful if God works a miracle in your life.  Dont be complaining about not knowing why.

lol okay sorry I am not very smart.

John3:16


AUSTIN 3:16

AUSTIN 3:16




Seems the more I look into it...with good reason for hypothesis more people follow the words of

"I just kicked you a$$" than they do John 3:16

Seems the more I look into it...with good reason for hypothesis more people follow the words of

"I just kicked you a$$" than they do John 3:16


Well.. now your not gonna like this, but IMO it's damn true.

The more that people Thump That Bible, The More That They cram there Religion Down my throat, the more they run there mouth with these Psalms. The More i am gonna want to say 'I just Kicked Your AS$!'

Hi Alex.  The funny thing is I know the church has dropped the ball for many years and had wounded many in the proses.  In stead of loving one anther like we're suppose to, we get all caught up in thongs that don't matter, so the world wonders if the church is a blessing a curse.  The latter is probably more propionate.  The reason I said this is because we're suppose to be living proof and if we're not living for Christ whole heartily and showing his love than people will not look at him that way.  That's why I think why people are ethicist or what have you.  I honestly believe that if a person truly knew God's love they would except it.  Unfortunately, so many go through life graving it.  i wish the church would be the church God had called them to be and stop playing  church.  People like you and on this board need to know that He does love them, enough to die for them.  I'm so very sorry for that.  I never want to be like guys, I want to be real, not a fake.  I know there's many fakes out there.  I know I don't know you personally and vise-versa.  I remember a time when I down down prostrate on the floor and cried until I thought I couldn't take anymore.  I felt like I was literally being torn in half emotionally.  After I was through, the Lord put it on my heart to pray for someone.  I didn't know who.  He told me to intercede.  God gave me a glimpse of how much he loved that person.  If I only felt a fration of that love, how great his love must be for us.  You also.  You may not believe, but it doesn't stop it from being the truth.  I might not believe in gravity, but it not going to stop being true if I jump off the Empire State Building.  I'll go splat. ;D



I neither need or desire love from an imaginary being. The only love I need as a person is my own.

Seems the more I look into it...with good reason for hypothesis more people follow the words of

"I just kicked you a$$" than they do John 3:16


if you want to point fingers, blame left-wing liberalism for the death of God.

I might not believe in gravity, but it not going to stop being true if I jump off the Empire State Building. I'll go splat. ;D

That's just plain silly: gravity is a measurable effect, God is not.  One happens, whether you want it or not; the other is just a figment of your imagination.  God is the silliest of all of mankinds silly inventions, and brainwashing children before they can think for themselves into the unquestioning belief mindset is verging on the criminal.

That's just plain silly: gravity is a measurable effect, God is not. One happens, whether you want it or not; the other is just a figment of your imagination. God is the silliest of all of mankinds silly inventions, and brainwashing children before they can think for themselves into the unquestioning belief mindset is verging on the criminal.


God is not just a figment of our imagination.  He is alive and at work in the world today.  You can see him all around if you look hard enough.  In the blooming of flowers in the spring to the goodness and generosity of his people, God is everywhere.  And as for "brainwashing" children, that is plain foolishness.  We are teaching them to be servants in the world.  We are showing them the love and compassion of God for humankind by teaching the story of Jesus Christ and teaching them to show that same love and compassion in their lives.

You know, it's really sad that a person could have such contempt for the church as you.  But I guess it's possible.  But I will warn you:  As with gravity, God happens whether you want it to or not.  As I said previously, he is alive and at work in the world.  There's no stopping it.

I think God has a sense of humor. After all, He DID design our reproductive organs. (If I should make it into heaven, the first thing I'm gonna do is ask God if I can see the blueprints.) ;D

God is not just a figment of our imagination. He is alive and at work in the world today. You can see him all around if you look hard enough. In the blooming of flowers in the spring to the goodness and generosity of his people, God is everywhere. And as for "brainwashing" children, that is plain foolishness. We are teaching them to be servants in the world. We are showing them the love and compassion of God for humankind by teaching the story of Jesus Christ and teaching them to show that same love and compassion in their lives.

You know, it's really sad that a person could have such contempt for the church as you. But I guess it's possible. But I will warn you: As with gravity, God happens whether you want it to or not. As I said previously, he is alive and at work in the world. There's no stopping it.


So is God at work also when thousands of children die daily from starvation? Was he doing his fabulous little job with the Holocaust? >:(

And yes, it is brainwashing children. It is like a CULT. You indoctrinate children to believe in something totally non-provable from such an early age that the lot of them never really have a chance to figure it out for themselves.

I care nothing about your religion. I think religion is the worst thing to ever happen to mankind, and holds us back from advancing as a species. If it were up to me, religion would get NO special recognition whatsoever. The harm far outweighs the good. Its been that way in the past, I see it being the same today.

I'm sick of religion getting special treatment when its causing so many problems. It's ludicrous beliefs SHOULD be challenged, we shouldn't just accept this silly crap from supposedly grown men and women because it is their "faith".

Sorry for ranting but if you grew up the way I did, the town I grew up in, to grow up in my time whats going on in the world with this Christianity vs. Islam crap, and this Judaism vs. Islam crap, and the Evangelical movement in this country that seems determined to turn us back to a Puritan society..you cannot help but despise religion with every fibre of your being and hope against hope for the day that the last church closes.

I'm sick of religion getting special treatment when its causing so many problems. It's ludicrous beliefs SHOULD be challenged, we shouldn't just accept this silly crap from supposedly grown men and women because it is their "faith".

..you cannot help but despise religion with every fibre of your being and hope against hope for the day that the last church closes.

Quite!

I do think it's ironic though, that the reason we dislike religion is because they act in a way contradictory to their own faith.
The god they follow is supposedly omnipotent (creating the world, all the people, etc)
Why then do thiests feel the need to do god's work for it?  Surely if god wanted heathens converted, jews killed, etc it would do this itself, an omnipotent being doesn't need help from mere mortals.

If Jesus wants me for a sunbeam, why does he send Joe F*ckwit round with a crappy leaflet instead of a simple, 10 sec, unambiguous vision?

The reason I'm quopting the Bible is because that's the sorce of my faith.  If you were a wiccan then you would quote from that sorce, or if you are a Musilum, you'd quote from the Kuran.  I'm a christian so I quote from the Bible.  I go to the source.  I'm not trying to thump anyone.  This is infact a discussion on God and mankind is it not?  If I had said any of this in another topic then it would be out of place.  Even though I may not share your views, I am very committed to my faith and walk with God, my Father.  You are very passionate about your faith or lack there of.  I do respect that.  I'd rather know you stand for something instead of being luke warm or wishy washy.  Yes there has been many atrocties done in the name of God and I highly doubt that pleased him.  Those people were either ignorent or claiming his name for the name's sake.  I am very passionate about my Father and I'm not ashamed of that. I know that being a Christian, a strong Christian gets heat.  The saying is if you cann't stand the heat get out of the kicthen.  I've gone through hell and high water in my short 34 years and it's only given me resolve and toughened me up.  If God be for me than who can be against me.  I know who I am in Christ, and that's all I need to know.  I know, that I know, that I know.  I have peace in the mist of the storms of life.  The more I trust him the more I know his heart.  If he isn't real, then I'm not missing out am I?  I might be seen as ignorant, a bigot, a red-neck, a hater, an uneduacated person for loveing and walking with my jFather.  That's okay.  What ever you guys sling at me, that's okay too.  Jesus was rejected, spit on, beat, ridiculed, and crucified.  He is the lover of my soul and how beautiful it is to suffer with him.  The problem is noone likes the idea of suffering because they think it's cruel.  True it's no fun, but I would not trade the rich blessings that have come out of them.  The sweatness of his preasence when I need most, his presence when I stop and reflect on his goodness.  If you have never tasted, grasped, or experience his presence durring suffering then you cann't understand it.  This may be what you are all talking about contridtions.  How can suffering be beautiful?  I have been tried in the fire and refined.  My father loves me too much to allow me to remain the same.  With out suffering we cann't begin to understand some one elses pain, sorrow, or grief.  We'd be stuck in our own little corner and wouldn't truly be able to help others through thier pain if we haven't gone through it our selves.  Suffering truly is beautiful.  I know you probably think I'm a nut case for saying so, but I have grown and matured because of it and I wouldn't trade all that I have gained through my suffering.  I am richer for it.

I agree.  I would rather have the rich blessings when I get to heaven than to waste my life doing whatever I want right now.  Hell seems like a scary place and I dont want to end up there.  The bible is an excellent thing to source because mnay truths are in there.  Way to go Xer!!

So is God at work also when thousands of children die daily from starvation? Was he doing his fabulous little job with the Holocaust? >:(

And yes, it is brainwashing children. It is like a CULT. You indoctrinate children to believe in something totally non-provable from such an early age that the lot of them never really have a chance to figure it out for themselves.

I care nothing about your religion. I think religion is the worst thing to ever happen to mankind, and holds us back from advancing as a species. If it were up to me, religion would get NO special recognition whatsoever. The harm far outweighs the good. Its been that way in the past, I see it being the same today.

I'm sick of religion getting special treatment when its causing so many problems. It's ludicrous beliefs SHOULD be challenged, we shouldn't just accept this silly crap from supposedly grown men and women because it is their "faith".

Sorry for ranting but if you grew up the way I did, the town I grew up in, to grow up in my time whats going on in the world with this Christianity vs. Islam crap, and this Judaism vs. Islam crap, and the Evangelical movement in this country that seems determined to turn us back to a Puritan society..you cannot help but despise religion with every fibre of your being and hope against hope for the day that the last church closes.


religion is what drives human history, without the hatred it brings, how are we to advance as a society? the technologies we enjoy stems from our drive to kill each other. without hate, we'd stall and wither.

i'm for religion because at this stage of human evolution we know nothing else to keep the species going.

religion is what drives human history, without the hatred it brings, how are we to advance as a society? the technologies we enjoy stems from our drive to kill each other. without hate, we'd stall and wither.

i'm for religion because at this stage of human evolution we know nothing else to keep the species going.

Interesting to see you say that.  I did not know that religion was what drove everyone mad.  Okay, so not everyone agrees.  But the Christian religion is the only one with a living God.  All of the other religions that have God's are dead.  I am sorry but I do not see myself following a religion.  I am following the truth!!

Interesting to see you say that.  I did not know that religion was what drove everyone mad.  Okay, so not everyone agrees.  But the Christian religion is the only one with a living God.  All of the other religions that have God's are dead.  I am sorry but I do not see myself following a religion.  I am following the truth!!


you make me happy, Pink Kitty. keep it up, enjoy your happiness, the world (and history) needs people like you.

What do you mean by that and why do you think that I am happy? 

Interesting to see you say that.  I did not know that religion was what drove everyone mad.  Okay, so not everyone agrees.  But the Christian religion is the only one with a living God.  All of the other religions that have God's are dead.  I am sorry but I do not see myself following a religion.  I am following the truth!!



And what exactly is the truth?

Perhaps Buffalo Springfield had it right when they said, "Nobody's right, if everybody's wrong"

The truth is that Jesus was real and He is the Son of Man and that whoever believe in Him will have eternal life.

And what exactly is the truth?

Perhaps Buffalo Springfield had it right when they said, "Nobody's right, if everybody's wrong"
 

well said.

And what exactly is the truth?

Perhaps Buffalo Springfield had it right when they said, "Nobody's right, if everybody's wrong"


exactly.

What do you mean by that and why do you think that I am happy? 


just ignore me. i'm a bitter, cynical man who's lost his faith with the church.

No I dont think that you are bitter at all.  I am just asking why i seem happy when all I am doing is speaking the word of God.  Isn't it amazing how the word of God shines?

just ignore me. i'm a bitter, cynical man who's lost his faith with the church.


I don't blame you for feeling that way. You have every right to feel let down because quite simply most folks have a shallow faith and are fakish.  Tha's sad because folks don't know if the church is a blessing or a curse and from most of the comments mentioned the latter is so to them

I agree.  Fake Christianity is becoming more popular.  It is making more and more churches look bad which is not what we need.  The end of times is soon so we do not need to fret.

I don't blame you for feeling that way. You have every right to feel let down because quite simply most folks have a shallow faith and are fakish.  Tha's sad because folks don't know if the church is a blessing or a curse and from most of the comments mentioned the latter is so to them


i haven't lost faith in God or christ for that matter. it's just the christian church in the modern day has let me down with it's divisions and who's right, finger pointing at other christian churchs and political leaders who uses the church and the christian faith to validate war. thats why i want to study gnosticism, the belief's that were abound during christ's time. i feel the answers that i'm looking for are there.

I actually agree with you.  The church that I go to though does not point fingers.  They want all churches to become one and they have honestly tried.

I'll have to look into that because I've heard about it but never knew what they stand for.  I'm still a firm believer that Christ was our savior not just a teacher, but i want to see where you two are coming from.  The thing is with the teacher bit is this.  If you think he was an hoest man and was a good man then do you believe he told the truth?  If so then he lied.  If he said I am the wy the truth and the life, either he's lieing or he's not.  There's no inbetween if you take him at his word.

I think God has a sense of humor. After all, He DID design our reproductive organs. (If I should make it into heaven, the first thing I'm gonna do is ask God if I can see the blueprints.) ;D

lol.  That is very funny I liked that! ;D

Gnosticism is actually a very fascinating "belief".  I kinda like the role women play in it, they are not seen as "lessers", but more as "equals" and Jesus wasn't the Savior, he was the teacher.  It's no wonder why most Christians called the gnostics "heretics" and "blasphemers" ::)


woman had a huge role to play in the early christian faith. they were the ones who prepared and offered the eucharist feast. and of coarse the role of mary as the mother of christ and mary magdelene who many believe was the thirteenth apostle but her contribution was written out, despite one of the apochcraphyl books was the book of mary, by the patriarchal catholic church.

Actually, the Catholic Church recognizes books of the bible that none of the other "Christian religions" do: Tobias, Judith, Wisdom of Solomon, Ecclesiasticus (aka Ecclesiastes), Baruch, and I, II Maccabees and parts of Esther & James.  It was the Protestant church that denied the divinity of ALL of the apocrypha, the Catholic Church decided that some of the books were truly from God.


hmm, interesting. something more i have to look into.

Anyone ever been to http://www.beliefnet.com?

Pretty cool..for the heck of it I went on there and took their Belief-o-matic test. There are the results I got..

1. Unitarian Universalism  (100%)
2. Secular Humanism (96%)
3. Liberal Quakers (93%)
4. Mainline to Liberal Christian Protestants (92%)
5. Neo-Pagan (79%)
6. Nontheist (79%)
7. Theravada Buddhism (74%)
8. New Age (65%)
9. Taoism (62%)
10. Bahá'í Faith (60%)

Unitarian Universalism seems somewhat pointless, its basically just people getting together to talk about varying belief. And Secular Humanism, well thats just an ethical viewpoint. Once again, it seems somewhat pointless to call that a religion. Liberal Quakers are kind of interesting, they remind me of Reform Judaism. The only thing they agree on is being Christians, but they really have no formal doctrines. I have no interest in Protestant faiths.

The only one on the list that intrigues me is Neo-Paganism. Which is essentially Wicca(although there are a couple of other smaller groups involved, like Asatru and Druids). I expressed some interest before on here. But I tried to tell my mom about it and she FLIPPED out. She forbid me to read about it on the computer, and that if she found out I had been looking at Wiccan sites she would take the computer away permanately. She insisted it was devil worship, and that she was a a Christian and would not allow it inside her house. I mentioned to her that she is full of crap, because she NEVER reads the Bible, she knows almost nothing about Christianity except vary basic crap everyone knows, and she NEVER attends a Church. She just got ticked off. The only reason she says she is Christian is because she was raised as one. The idea that you are something just because you are raised in it is ludicrous. She is not a very open-minded or bright woman. My father is very intelligent like myself and I really have no idea why he married such a small-minded, petty little woman.

That was a few months ago, so I forgot about Wicca. Well, Spring is a time for re-newal..I was telling her about the boards for the first time the other night, and the people, and I mentioned Cat. She got this look on her face when she heard me say shes Wiccan. I explained to her what a nice person Cat is and how she has a really misinformed opinion about Wicca. Once again, she wasn't interested to hear me explain how Wicca really was. We had a two-hour fight over it, but I eventually won for once. I basically told her to shut the **** up and listen to what I had to say. She hated when she was a kid how her parents forced their conservative Christianity on her(which makes it even dumber that she insists shes a Christian because she was 'raised one'), yet she was doing this to me(I told her this too). I also told her as much as she complained about my old man being hard-headed, she is just like him. Well THAT seemed to click something in her mind and so she actually listened.

I explained it all to her, and she seemed cool with it. She wouldn't ok it, which gives me the feeling she won't mind if I were to be Wiccan now, but she still doesn't want me practicing magick in her house. Well I get the heck out of here in 6 weeks, so that is no sweat off of my back. So when I move to my uncle's..I think I'll give it a try. I do like the idea that in Wicca you can be a sole practicioner(meaning you don't have to do it as a 'community' thing, its personal). That is appealing.

my ex and still best friend is a solitary wiccan. if i wasn't so inclined to God i would have been one. another best friend is an asatru. he is very honour-bound, which is the core belief of asatru.

i took that test before and i came out as a liberal protestant. quaker came in second or third. my other pagan friends took it and they managed to get quaker in there results...how liberal are the quakers?!

Anybody ever heard of the Sims?

My beliefnet thing said either Buddhist, Taoist, or nothing. Definetly not Catholic, it said.

Don Carlos Hi.  I figured I'd get some heat.  That's okay.  I'm not sure what you mean by respond?  iI'm no godess but thanks anyway. :D


Well, if you can't stand the heat, as Harry Truman said, get out of the kitchen. 

Its hard to respond to a question that already assumes much of the answer.  I this case, the question assumes the existance of God.  I don't consider myself an athiest because that requires too much work, so I guess I'm an agnostic, as long as God leaves me alone, I will leave Him/Her alone.

I wasn't refering to you as the Godess, but as a woman you do carry the legancy of the Wiccan Godess.  You can do something that I can never do.  You can bring forth life (which I rever evan though I am pro-choice) and you can nurish that life from your own body.  I did offer my (hairy) breasts to all my kids (I know, it sounds wierd) but each one looked up at me as if I were nuts, as if to say "that's not mama's, and I don't like the hair.

My son's first joke, by the way, was when he was about 18 months.  I walked into the bedroom to see him nursing.  He looked up at me, patted my wife's breast, and said "appa juice" with a big grin.

if you want to point fingers, blame left-wing liberalism for the death of God.


An interesting comment.  I would add that if you want to point fingers, blame all the bible, koran, upaniahad etc. thumping religious folks for the inumerable genocides committed in the name of religion, going back at least as far as the cursades.  If all that is God's legacy, I'm glad he has died.  Enough already, no more slaughter in mine name (or His/Hers). 

religion is what drives human history, without the hatred it brings, how are we to advance as a society? the technologies we enjoy stems from our drive to kill each other. without hate, we'd stall and wither.

i'm for religion because at this stage of human evolution we know nothing else to keep the species going.


"In the soicial production of their lives, people enter into definate relations that are indepoendant of their will.  These relations of production constitute the economic base of society and conform to the state of development of the material forces of production...  Around them grows a superstructure of ideas, legal systems, philosophies that serve to justify and legitimate those relations of production.  Peoples' consciousness is a product of these social relations..."

Others have translated this passage differently ( and probably better) that I have, but how can one deny that it is tyhe way we earn our living, and the way we think about it, that is what "drives human history".  Evan Max Weber, who wrote The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism understond the material forces that drive history forward.  God has nothing to do with it.  Religion, as a social phenomenon, does play a part, but not an any devine way.

my ex and still best friend is a solitary wiccan. if i wasn't so inclined to God i would have been one. another best friend is an asatru. he is very honour-bound, which is the core belief of asatru.

i took that test before and i came out as a liberal protestant. quaker came in second or third. my other pagan friends took it and they managed to get quaker in there results...how liberal are the quakers?!


They aren't. They are split into two different sects. Quakers(who are the majority I believe) and there is a smaller sect called Liberal Quakers. Who are..well, liberal.

I do know about the books.  I learned about it some years ago.  What the King James did is basically allow the masses to have access to the gospels.  That's why I'm learning Hebrew to go to the original writings.  You are right it was mentioned that he was a teacher, I'm just saying that he claims to not only be a teacher but the Son of God also.  That's a hefty claim.  As for proof that God exists there have been many discoveries in archeology and geology that colaborate Biblical accounts.  For example, in geology, it was discovered that in the layers on various mountains of the world that fossils were found of sea creatures.  They concluded that there really had been a universal flood.  There are also accounts written in writings from other sources other than Christan from different cultures around the world that tell of a man and his family being saved from a flood.  There have also been discoveries of the ruins of the city of Babylon, the wall of Jericho, and the famous Dead Sea Scrolls.  These things are being discovered all the time and are demonstrating the true accounts of scripture and other writings.  Even Egyptian accounts record slaves of Hebrews and before Christianity, there was a Pharaoh that believed in one God instead of worshiping their many gods.  I myself didn't image it when God healed me instantaneously from tendinitis in my right wrist.  After I prayed with some friends and accepted Him as my Savior, i felt a warm, tingleling heat in my wrist.  One of my friends placed his hand about three to four inches from my wrist and said he felt the heat.  I didn't imagine that.  That was 14 years ago and I've never had a problem with it since.  I remember when my daughter was small and she was throwing up and having dyaria.  She was becoming dehydrated and the nurse told me if she couldn't keep anything down with in 24 hrs to bring in to the hospital and they'd hook her up to IV's.  I cried out to God with my whole heart and put my hands on her.  With in a half hour she was responding to liquids and no longer had the squirts.  I know He touched her.  I've witnessed others God did miracles for, not only physical but in their families, in finances, in healing of relationships.  I know he's real because I've experience it.  I not only know about him, I know Him.  I know he loves me, I know he loved the thought of me before I was born. (you too) I suppose faith can't be argued, only lived.  As for Christian witnesses down through the years, there are many positieve examples.  I'll name a few.  Cory Ten Boom helped the Jews during the Holocaust.  When she was in the consintration camps and she ministered to others, she had to learn to forgive her captives and love them as Christ loved them.  She tells of a true story of how a female guard had struck her sister severely and hatred began to grow in her heart for them.  Her sister looked up at her and said that Christ died for them too.  Years later she was speaking in Germany about the love and forgiveness God has for us when we humble ourselves to him.  Afterwards a woman approached her with tears in her eyes.  She immediately knew who she was.  It was the guard.  She had accepted Christ and wanted to ask Cory for her forgiveness.  She honestly said that those images of the camps came back and that resentment came to her.  She prayed that God would help her to forgive and she reached out her hand to shake the woman's hand, and as she did, supernatural love came into her heart for this woman and she was able to forgive.  Forgiving isn't easy but God wants us to be willing to do it and he will equipt us with the desire if we give him a chance.  Billy Gram is another example.  There have been people of faith that have made a positive inpact in the world.  Not all are hypocrites.

Well, if you can't stand the heat, as Harry Truman said, get out of the kitchen.  I know and can because I know who I am in Christ.  I'm very secure in that.

Its hard to respond to a question that already assumes much of the answer.  I this case, the question assumes the existance of God.  I don't consider myself an athiest because that requires too much work, so I guess I'm an agnostic, as long as God leaves me alone, I will leave Him/Her alone.

I wasn't refering to you as the Godess, but as a woman you do carry the legancy of the Wiccan Godess.  You can do something that I can never do.  You can bring forth life (which I rever evan though I am pro-choice) and you can nurish that life from your own body.  I did offer my (hairy) breasts to all my kids (I know, it sounds wierd) but each one looked up at me as if I were nuts, as if to say "that's not mama's, and I don't like the hair.

My son's first joke, by the way, was when he was about 18 months.  I walked into the bedroom to see him nursing.  He looked up at me, patted my wife's breast, and said "appa juice" with a big grin.

sorry.  I'm still learning how to opperate thes quotes.  I can stand the heat because I know who I am in Christ.  I know that I will get heat, that's a given.  As for the Goddess thing, thank you for clearing that up.  As for men and woman, I know we are equal in our humanity, but not in everything.  As you pointed out I can have babies you cann't but women aren't (usaually) built with more upper body strreath as men are.  We're made differently for different functions.  But that doesn't make either of us lesser or more.

God is not just a figment of our imagination. He is alive and at work in the world today. You can see him all around if you look hard enough.

No, you don't: you see a million examples of random chance, and in some of those you may think you see the hand of God, but there ain't anything there - simply your desire to have a father-figure in which to believe.

http://coldfury.com/images/mankind.jpg

I wasn't aware God Created Mankind... i think he created his own niche in the industry...




Hey! I managed to resist the urge to post it until now...

^ Mr. Socko I presume  ;) ;D

The only way I could ever accept any deities is in the purely metaphorical sense. I kind of like the Wiccan God and Goddess thing, its like the Yin Yang. They are both just metaphors for the opposite sides of the universe. Everything are opposites, you. Hot and cold, light and dark,male and female etc. Even in biology, all particles or atoms or whatever are either positively or negatively charged.

So I can accept the idea if its in the sense of non-personal metaphors for the universe.

But the idea of a concious, personal deity just doesn't jive with me.

Re: Why did God create mankind - anyone ?

Good for a laugh.  ;D

God is not just a figment of our imagination.  He is alive and at work in the world today.  You can see him all around if you look hard enough.  In the blooming of flowers in the spring to the goodness and generosity of his people, God is everywhere.  And as for "brainwashing" children, that is plain foolishness.  We are teaching them to be servants in the world.  We are showing them the love and compassion of God for humankind by teaching the story of Jesus Christ and teaching them to show that same love and compassion in their lives.

You know, it's really sad that a person could have such contempt for the church as you.  But I guess it's possible.  But I will warn you:  As with gravity, God happens whether you want it to or not.  As I said previously, he is alive and at work in the world.  There's no stopping it.


Hm...

Try substituting 'Tony Blair' in place of 'God'...

...and you've got the next Labour Party manifesto...!!

I always liked the old Python wrestling skit from years ago...

'God exists by two falls to one submission'...

I believe that soon this subject is going to bring up an argument about Creation and Evolution

sorry.  I'm still learning how to opperate thes quotes.  I can stand the heat because I know who I am in Christ.  I know that I will get heat, that's a given.  As for the Goddess thing, thank you for clearing that up.  As for men and woman, I know we are equal in our humanity, but not in everything.  As you pointed out I can have babies you cann't but women aren't (usaually) built with more upper body strreath as men are.  We're made differently for different functions.  But that doesn't make either of us lesser or more.


Vive le diferance, vive le egualidad. 

Some of my best friends are Christians, and I have no problem with the  beliefs of true Christians, so you get no heat from me regarding your religion, unless you try to impose it on me.  That I will fight tooth and nail.

I believe that soon this subject is going to bring up an argument about Creation and Evolution


You could be right, but since that subject has been explored on other threads, I guess people are avoiding the issue, maybe because of the way the question was posed, which rules out evolution.

I always liked the old Python wrestling skit from years ago...

'God exists by two falls to one submission'...

Hmm... wrestling with the fundamental truths?

Methinks the question be backwards.  Mankind created God.

darnit, where's the frickin applause smiley :-\\
Oh well, this will have to do:
*APPLAUSE**APPLAUSE**APPLAUSE**APPLAUSE**APPLAUSE**APPLAUSE**APPLAUSE*

Thank you, thank you, thank you, you are too kind!
:)

There's Mr. Smiley!  BTW, I wish our moderator would get us some more emoticons.  I don't need hundreds, but just a handful more would be nice.

darnit, where's the frickin applause smiley :-\\
Oh well, this will have to do:
*APPLAUSE**APPLAUSE**APPLAUSE**APPLAUSE**APPLAUSE**APPLAUSE**APPLAUSE*



Right here  ;)


http://emoticons4u.com/happy3.htm



Cat

Methinks the question be backwards.  Mankind created God.




OMG - I think you're on to something there !!  ;) :D

Anyone ever been to http://www.beliefnet.com?

Pretty cool..for the heck of it I went on there and took their Belief-o-matic test. There are the results I got..

1. Unitarian Universalism  (100%)
2. Secular Humanism (96%)
3. Liberal Quakers (93%)
4. Mainline to Liberal Christian Protestants (92%)
5. Neo-Pagan (79%)
6. Nontheist (79%)
7. Theravada Buddhism (74%)
8. New Age (65%)
9. Taoism (62%)
10. Bahá'í Faith (60%)

Unitarian Universalism seems somewhat pointless, its basically just people getting together to talk about varying belief. And Secular Humanism, well thats just an ethical viewpoint. Once again, it seems somewhat pointless to call that a religion. Liberal Quakers are kind of interesting, they remind me of Reform Judaism. The only thing they agree on is being Christians, but they really have no formal doctrines. I have no interest in Protestant faiths.

The only one on the list that intrigues me is Neo-Paganism. Which is essentially Wicca(although there are a couple of other smaller groups involved, like Asatru and Druids). I expressed some interest before on here. But I tried to tell my mom about it and she FLIPPED out. She forbid me to read about it on the computer, and that if she found out I had been looking at Wiccan sites she would take the computer away permanately. She insisted it was devil worship, and that she was a a Christian and would not allow it inside her house. I mentioned to her that she is full of crap, because she NEVER reads the Bible, she knows almost nothing about Christianity except vary basic crap everyone knows, and she NEVER attends a Church. She just got ticked off. The only reason she says she is Christian is because she was raised as one. The idea that you are something just because you are raised in it is ludicrous. She is not a very open-minded or bright woman. My father is very intelligent like myself and I really have no idea why he married such a small-minded, petty little woman.

That was a few months ago, so I forgot about Wicca. Well, Spring is a time for re-newal..I was telling her about the boards for the first time the other night, and the people, and I mentioned Cat. She got this look on her face when she heard me say shes Wiccan. I explained to her what a nice person Cat is and how she has a really misinformed opinion about Wicca. Once again, she wasn't interested to hear me explain how Wicca really was. We had a two-hour fight over it, but I eventually won for once. I basically told her to shut the **** up and listen to what I had to say. She hated when she was a kid how her parents forced their conservative Christianity on her(which makes it even dumber that she insists shes a Christian because she was 'raised one'), yet she was doing this to me(I told her this too). I also told her as much as she complained about my old man being hard-headed, she is just like him. Well THAT seemed to click something in her mind and so she actually listened.

I explained it all to her, and she seemed cool with it. She wouldn't ok it, which gives me the feeling she won't mind if I were to be Wiccan now, but she still doesn't want me practicing magick in her house. Well I get the heck out of here in 6 weeks, so that is no sweat off of my back. So when I move to my uncle's..I think I'll give it a try. I do like the idea that in Wicca you can be a sole practicioner(meaning you don't have to do it as a 'community' thing, its personal). That is appealing.





I don't know how I miss this. I must thank you for "sticking up for me".  ;D  A lot of times people have misconseptions about Wicca. It had to do with bad propaganda for the last 2000 years. At first I was afraid to tell my family because of it. I think it was my great aunt (who is no longer with us  :\'() the first one I told and she replied by sending me a book about God being a woman. The next one I told was my dad, who is an atheist Jew who just joined the Society of Friends-the Quakers (don't ask  ::)). I think he understood it more than I did at the time. Over the years, I finally came out of the "broom closet" to my entire family.  Even my mother-the die-hard Episcopalian, has finally excepted it, even though I'm sure she still doesn't quite understand it. In fact, when I talked to her the other day, she said, "Do a spell about...."

I do agree with you about with Wicca you can be a sole practitioner-that is part of the appeal to me, too. But, it doesn't HAVE to be. I personally dislike orginized religions. I know this religion isn't for everyone but it is who I am-it is a part of me. But, I do want people to understand it, and to respect it. I think that is what everyone wants with their own religion. And if anyone has any questions about Wicca-either in a thread or a PM, I will gladly answer them.


BTW, I took that test and you can see that top result is not suprising at all.

1. Neo-Pagan  (100%)
2. Unitarian Universalism (90%)
3. New Age (80%)
4. Mahayana Buddhism (77%)
5. Liberal Quakers (72%)
6. Jainism (69%)
7. Reform Judaism (67%)
8. Hinduism (65%)
9. Secular Humanism (62%)
10. Theravada Buddhism (62%)



Cat

1.  Unitarian Universalism (100%)
2.  Secular Humanism (98%)
3.  Mainline to Liberal Christian Protestants (94%)
4.  Liberal Quakers (92%)
5.  Nontheist (81%)
6.  Theravada Buddhism (68%)
7.  Neo-Pagan (63%)
8.  Bahá'í Faith (60%)
9.  Christian Science (Church of Christ, Scientist) (58%)
10.  Taoism (56%)
11.  Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Mormons) (54%)
12.  Reform Judaism (52%)
13.  New Age (48%)
14.  Mainline to Conservative Christian/Protestant (46%)
15.  Mahayana Buddhism (44%)
16.  Orthodox Quaker (44%)
17.  New Thought (43%)
18.  Jehovah's Witness (41%)
19.  Sikhism (40%)
20.  Scientology (37%)
21.  Jainism (34%)
22.  Seventh Day Adventist (28%)
23.  Islam (26%)
24.  Orthodox Judaism (26%)
25.  Hinduism (25%)
26.  Eastern Orthodox (17%)
27.  Roman Catholic (17%)

i guess that's what happens when almost everything is medium priority

1. Reform Judaism (100%)
2. Sikhism (89%)
3. Liberal Quakers (83%)
4. Bah�'� Faith (81%)
5. Orthodox Judaism (78%)

Dosen't suprise me at all..

I have been seriously considering converting to Reform (Liberal) Judaism for some time now and when i get to the states i think i will.

One of my best friends is a Sikh and i hold that faith in very high regard, they are exceptionally honorable and moral people.

That's just plain silly: gravity is a measurable effect, God is not.  One happens, whether you want it or not; the other is just a figment of your imagination.  God is the silliest of all of mankinds silly inventions, and brainwashing children before they can think for themselves into the unquestioning belief mindset is verging on the criminal.



How about brainwashing them into an unquestioning, nihilistic skepticism? Think about it...

Look. Suppose I told you that I ate at a certain Mexican restaurant last night, and that the Chori-Pollo was to die for. Now, whatever else you may say about me or my taste, I frankly don't see how you can say, "No, you didn't. I've never been there. It doesn't exist. It's all a figment of your silly imagination." I talked to God this morning. He's fine, thank you. So am I, thank Him. I am not an infant. I am not a psychotic (o.k., o.k., so far as I know). I know the difference between my imagination and God; I'm nothing much, except capable of the most horrific moral corruption; He is the Truth, Beauty, Purity and Love that rescued me. I'm just telling you what happened. I don't know why God hasn't contacted you, yet, just as I don't know why He eventually contacted me... You seem to have red alert shields up, though, and He doesn't do the trumpet-and-blazing-fire thing every time, you know.

I have a daughter who is five years old. I'm telling her what I believe about many things. What else can I do? She'll probably question, as most of us eventually do. God bless her, I'm not the least bit worried about it. The truth will always win - in fact, He already has. It is/was/will be inevitable.

Let's just not be so dogmatic about our skepticism.

Cat, how do you feel about shows like Charmed?  Does it do more good or harm to your faith?  Yes I am a Christian but was curious about your take on that.  Thanks.  If you could do explain what is wicca. ;)

Vive le diferance, vive le egualidad. 

Some of my best friends are Christians, and I have no problem with the  beliefs of true Christians, so you get no heat from me regarding your religion, unless you try to impose it on me.  That I will fight tooth and nail.
  Thanks.  I'm am so sorry I came off strong to everyone.  One thing I like about this board is seeing everyone's posts and their ideas.  I'd rather see people with strong beliefs or pospositions, I do respect that.  I do enjoy reading what every one has posted and learning about the other faiths that I haven't checked out.  I just wanted to thank everyone for such great posts. :D

So is God at work also when thousands of children die daily from starvation? Was he doing his fabulous little job with the Holocaust? >:(

And yes, it is brainwashing children. It is like a CULT. You indoctrinate children to believe in something totally non-provable from such an early age that the lot of them never really have a chance to figure it out for themselves.

I care nothing about your religion. I think religion is the worst thing to ever happen to mankind, and holds us back from advancing as a species. If it were up to me, religion would get NO special recognition whatsoever. The harm far outweighs the good. Its been that way in the past, I see it being the same today.

I'm sick of religion getting special treatment when its causing so many problems. It's ludicrous beliefs SHOULD be challenged, we shouldn't just accept this silly crap from supposedly grown men and women because it is their "faith".

Sorry for ranting but if you grew up the way I did, the town I grew up in, to grow up in my time whats going on in the world with this Christianity vs. Islam crap, and this Judaism vs. Islam crap, and the Evangelical movement in this country that seems determined to turn us back to a Puritan society..you cannot help but despise religion with every fibre of your being and hope against hope for the day that the last church closes.


GOD IS A HOLOCAUST VICTIM!! Jesus was tortured and executed by the Romans mostly because they saw him as one of those pesky Jewish troublemakers the Pax Augustus would be better off without.

Look at the Cross, and think about it...HARD. Do you think it's something that happened for a few hours one Friday to some guy a couple of thousand years ago? Stop being so provincial and timebound! God is the center of history, and the heart of God is the Cross! Whatever the hell else is going on in this hell of a world, at least God is down here, gutting it out with us. The peace of God is not bunnies and lillies and sunshiny days; it's continuing to respond in love with nails through your limbs and a lance in your heart! I can't tell you the reason God doesn't just go "POOF!" and no more Nazis, birth defects, and interfaith hatred - to quote a character in the movie Rudy, with Sean Astin, "I only know two things: there is a God, and I'm not him." Since I do believe in the omnipotent love of God, I also must believe that, in some way I do not grasp (and if that's the weak spot that causes you to dump me in the trash, so be it), it's not "good" for us to have it that way.

...I love olives, all kinds. My wife hates 'em. She got a bad one when she was young, and was sick for days. She won't touch them now (more for me). I think what happened is that you got some bad Christianity. At least consider the possibility. My faith is not a cowering, infantile whistling with my hands over my eyes. "Faith is...the evidence of things not seen" (Hebrews 11:1). Faith is the mighty, bleeding footprint of the Giant who crushed me into life. Sorry about the rant, too.

Why did God create Mankind??

Because he could!

Why did God create Mankind??

Because he could!

That is a really nice answer!

When one wants to know what mankind is truly, and to know how mankind must live one must look at the two words seperately: "mank" and "ind".  ;D

When one wants to know what mankind is truly, and to know how mankind must live one must look at the two words seperately: "mank" and "ind".  ;D

Are they even two words?

Methinks the question be backwards.  Mankind created God.




Hm...whyever would we do THAT? In fact, while we're here, why did we invent the police? Aren't both always trying to force some sort of code down our collective throat? And I hope we can pass on by the usual dark, conspiritorial mutterings about "priestcraft" and "controlling" and "duping" and "oppressing" and "exploiting" "the" "masses". Let me check...yep, I got no priest here controlling or duping me, and I don't feel at all oppressed - quite the reverse. And yet, for all that, I believe in God. Go figure.

(crickets chirp...) THANK YA! GUHNIGHT!

SOME people are controlled by religion, though. They let it control them, their money, their mind. I say: That's not cool.

SOME people are controlled by religion, though. They let it control them, their money, their mind. I say: That's not cool.

I believe that those people may just be following what they think is right.  I personally havr religion control a lot of what I do.

I believe that those people may just be following what they think is right.  I personally havr religion control a lot of what I do.


What I don't think is cool is when people numb their minds and never think beyond the sphere of power religion has. You gotta be careful.

Cat, how do you feel about shows like Charmed?  Does it do more good or harm to your faith?  Yes I am a Christian but was curious about your take on that.  Thanks.  If you could do explain what is wicca. ;)



Wicca is basically a new form of a very ancient religion. It centers around the Earth-the seasons, the moon and the Sun. There are two deities-a Goddess and a God. Some give them names, others do not. It is about the energy of the Earth, and of spirit (meaning the human spirit) and yes, magic is a part of the religion. Magic is dealing with the energy and spirit-i.e. sending forth your spirit and energy to create change. It has absolutely nothing to do with satanism or devil worshipping. In fact, the devil does not even exist in the religion. We have one creed: "Do what you will, harm none". We have what we called the "three-fold rule"-whatever you do to or for someone, will come back to you three-fold. So you will WANT to do good.

As for Charmed, yes, I like the show but not as much as my step-daughter (another witch). Even though I think they have the basics down in terms of the Book of Shadows, the spells, the basic beliefs and such, it still is fantasy. Being a witch doesn't mean that you are fighting demons all the time. But, you do try to work your magic for good not for ill.  I don't know if the show has done more harm than good for the religion. It is certainly popular.


I hope this answers your questions. If you have any more, please feel free to ask.




Cat

What I don't think is cool is when people numb their minds and never think beyond the sphere of power religion has. You gotta be careful.

Yeah I kind of see where you are coming from.  It doesnt make sense at time.

It was actually rather common back then for people to be hung from a cross...


Very true. We'd all look pretty silly with electric chairs, rifles, gas pellets, or syringes around our necks, though, so whatever else you say about God, hes/hits/theys/shers got good timing--and fashion sense. (Dang it--just what resumptive pronoun ARE we gonna use to indicate God's transgenderal essence, anyway?)

SOME people are controlled by religion, though. They let it control them, their money, their mind. I say: That's not cool.


Hey, man. I don't know if you're referencing me, but...I don't let religion control my mind. God, yes. Christ, yes. Religion, no. Tried that. Didn't work. I found out that I was trying to control me myself, but that didn't work for me, either. Maybe I'm not strong enough, but I found that darker, heavier things were always wresting the wheel out of my hands, and taking me on an unjoyride.

Now that I'm a child of the King, I got a driver. I'm in the back. In the pool. With shades on. And the wet bar. (NOT Jesus juice. God forbid!) :D

Hey, man. I don't know if you're referencing me, but...I don't let religion control my mind. God, yes. Christ, yes. Religion, no. Tried that. Didn't work. I found out that I was trying to control me myself, but that didn't work for me, either. Maybe I'm not strong enough, but I found that darker, heavier things were always wresting the wheel out of my hands, and taking me on an unjoyride.

Now that I'm a child of the King, I got a driver. I'm in the back. In the pool. With shades on. And the wet bar. (NOT Jesus juice. God forbid!) :D


No, not you. I just think that some people let themself be controlled for the sake of avoiding life's choices.

  Thanks.  I'm am so sorry I came off strong to everyone.  One thing I like about this board is seeing everyone's posts and their ideas.  I'd rather see people with strong beliefs or pospositions, I do respect that.  I do enjoy reading what every one has posted and learning about the other faiths that I haven't checked out.  I just wanted to thank everyone for such great posts. :D


Thank you, and no problem from me.  We each have our spiritual beliefs, and I try to respect those of others, as I expect them to respect mine.  And I too am interested in what others believe.  And you didn't "come off too strong" as far as I'm concerned.

Hm...whyever would we do THAT? In fact, while we're here, why did we invent the police? Aren't both always trying to force some sort of code down our collective throat? And I hope we can pass on by the usual dark, conspiritorial mutterings about "priestcraft" and "controlling" and "duping" and "oppressing" and "exploiting" "the" "masses". Let me check...yep, I got no priest here controlling or duping me, and I don't feel at all oppressed - quite the reverse. And yet, for all that, I believe in God. Go figure.

(crickets chirp...) THANK YA! GUHNIGHT!


There was a time, in human pre-history, when there were no kings, emporers, generals, jailors, jails, dongions, concentration cxamps, and when no one bowed, kow towed, or payed tribute to use the earth's resources.  That was before the origin of private property and the state.  During that time, the resources of the earth belonged to all equally.  Read Marvin Harris's Cannibals and Kings...

Wicca is basically a new form of a very ancient religion. It centers around the Earth-the seasons, the moon and the Sun. There are two deities-a Goddess and a God. Some give them names, others do not. It is about the energy of the Earth, and of spirit (meaning the human spirit) and yes, magic is a part of the religion. Magic is dealing with the energy and spirit-i.e. sending forth your spirit and energy to create change. It has absolutely nothing to do with satanism or devil worshipping. In fact, the devil does not even exist in the religion. We have one creed: "Do what you will, harm none". We have what we called the "three-fold rule"-whatever you do to or for someone, will come back to you three-fold. So you will WANT to do good.

As for Charmed, yes, I like the show but not as much as my step-daughter (another witch). Even though I think they have the basics down in terms of the Book of Shadows, the spells, the basic beliefs and such, it still is fantasy. Being a witch doesn't mean that you are fighting demons all the time. But, you do try to work your magic for good not for ill.  I don't know if the show has done more harm than good for the religion. It is certainly popular.


I hope this answers your questions. If you have any more, please feel free to ask.




Cat


A great short version of Wicca, which, although I am still an athiest, I can relate to.  It's teachings are moral, as I understand that word, and it's rituals are appealing.  Worshiping life, and the life force in the universe can oinly be a good  thing.

DO WHAT YOU WILL, HARM NONE


Could there be a better philosophy of life?

Thank you Cat for your short summary of what Wicca is.  I do want to know more about other faiths simply because I want to know where others are commming from.  I've heard others say that if one doesn't understand something then they are afraid of it.  That's true and I've read others on here get heat from families about their faith.  I may not understand or even agree vitro some but the last thing I want to do is give them grief.  If I have something to share I want to convey it in love always.  And yes may use scripture from time to time.  Please don't feel like I'm thumping anyone on this board if I do. 

Carlos, again thank you.

Crazymom, I'mfrom Native American heritage too.  Some of my ancestors were Shawnee.  Peace to one and all.
Xer.

Thank you Cat for your short summary of what Wicca is.  I do want to know more about other faiths simply because I want to know where others are commming from.  I've heard others say that if one doesn't understand something then they are afraid of it.  That's true and I've read others on here get heat from families about their faith.  I may not understand or even agree vitro some but the last thing I want to do is give them grief.  If I have something to share I want to convey it in love always.  And yes may use scripture from time to time.  Please don't feel like I'm thumping anyone on this board if I do. 

Carlos, again thank you.

Crazymom, I'mfrom Native American heritage too.  Some of my ancestors were Shawnee.  Peace to one and all.
Xer.



Here is a site that talks about many religions and faiths. I don't know if they mention ALL of them but it may give you a better understanding of some.


http://www.religioustolerance.org/#new



Cat

The Powers That Be created us, a lowly, protein-based race crafted of flesh, out of boredom.  They knew everything so they wanted excitement.  Then came religion, which led to violence.

I always think of it as this.  I have the option of believing I was created by a wonderful God who loves me and molded me the perfect that He wanted, or I was formed from a blob of a atom and then turned into an Ape than a person.  I wonder which one I am going to pick. God created makind for His likeliness!!

reading up on gnosticism, the god jehovah was flawed and his creations were equally flawed. in fact, the gnostics consider him the devil, or demiurge, as the gnostics named god. i never connected with god, i saw him as distant and absent and with any care for his creations.

I always think of it as this. I have the option of believing I was created by a wonderful God who loves me and molded me the perfect that He wanted, or I was formed from a blob of a atom and then turned into an Ape than a person. I wonder which one I am going to pick. God created makind for His likeliness!!


::) Picking something just because it sounds nicer and fluffier seems very superficial to me.

reading up on gnosticism, the god jehovah was flawed and his creations were equally flawed. in fact, the gnostics consider him the devil, or demiurge, as the gnostics named god. i never connected with god, i saw him as distant and absent and with any care for his creations.


Elaborate..it sounds intriguing.

::) Picking something just because it sounds nicer and fluffier seems very superficial to me.


That's what I was thinking.  I tend to believe what I think sounds correct. By that I believe the Universe is a perfectly just entity, "God" in a sense.  I don't think there's anything special about Man though and also I think "God" seldom interferes.  Mankind, and probably other alien races, destroyed what was once perfection.

reading up on gnosticism, the god jehovah was flawed and his creations were equally flawed. in fact, the gnostics consider him the devil, or demiurge, as the gnostics named god. i never connected with god, i saw him as distant and absent and with any care for his creations.


I read on Gnosticism myself... good ideas, it had. At least what I read.

I always considered God somewhat on the abusive, jealous, vindictive, angry side... almost like the epitome of what so many religions despise.. We fear it may be true, so we dress up God as being great, and enable his sadism.

Of course, I don't believe in any power anymore.. just circumstance and consequence.

That's what I was thinking. I tend to believe what I think sounds correct. By that I believe the Universe is a perfectly just entity, "God" in a sense. I don't think there's anything special about Man though and also I think "God" seldom interferes. Mankind, and probably other alien races, destroyed what was once perfection.


Sounds like you are a Diest. ;)

I thought the answer to this qestion was obvious.

Without mankind, there would be no Britney.

'Nuff said.  ;)

I always think of it as this.   I have the option of believing I was created by a wonderful God who loves me and molded me the perfect that He wanted, or I was formed from a blob of a atom and then turned into an Ape than a person.  I wonder which one I am going to pick. God created makmankindr His likeliness!!


I guess I'm superficial then, because I understand what she means.  If there is no God as you guys keep implying, then there is no harm in herlbelieving that she was created with love and care.  I know one trait about God and that is he doesn't impose himself on us.  People might but he doesn't.  If he feels distant then perhaps you haven't really asked him to come near?  Just a thought.  I'm with Pink Kitty as with knowing I wasn't just an accident and that God created me for a perpose.  If that makes me superficial then so be it. ;)

God was lonely and wanted someone to love Him.


I'm not picking on you, I was reading some of the older comments and noticed yours again.  Maybe you are a deulist, and maybe youv'e has a bad experience concerning God, but this confusses me.  You sound light hearterd hear about him, then you sound out right mad with your other comments.  What's up?

Sputnik I would like it if you'd explain Gnostic Duelism further in depth, or give a link to a website that does. :)

I'm not picking on you, I was reading some of the older comments and noticed yours again.  Maybe you are a deulist, and maybe youv'e has a bad experience concerning God, but this confusses me.  You sound light hearterd hear about him, then you sound out right mad with your other comments.  What's up?


that was me being sarcastic. i just want to point out i believe in god, i just don't believe he has us in our best interest. at least not anymore.

here you go Alex, just one of the sites that i've visited...http://www.gnosis.org/gnintro.htm

I'm not picking on you, I was reading some of the older comments and noticed yours again.  Maybe you are a deulist, and maybe youv'e has a bad experience concerning God, but this confusses me.  You sound light hearterd hear about him, then you sound out right mad with your other comments.  What's up?


Speaking of duelism, I suddenly recall an incident in a college class that I attended way WAY back in 1978.  :o

The subject of the day was "duality theory" and at that moment, our professor went into a mental breakdown and challenged we students to a real "dual", brandishing a classroom pointer.  ???

A substitute handled the class for the remainder of the semester.  :-\\

27 years later I can not say that I remember what diality theory is about, but I remember the class in which it was taught.

Anyone ever been to http://www.beliefnet.com?




don't know how I missed this thread, must have been buried before I got back from my trip in April.

My score on that site says that I'm a candidate for clergy.

To answer the question, I have no idea why mankind was created, but I'm glad that I'm here.

I thought the answer to this qestion was obvious.

Without mankind, there would be no Britney.

'Nuff said.   ;)

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


don't know how I missed this thread, must have been buried before I got back from my trip in April.

I never saw this thread either! Wow!

God created mankind, so I could be born.

God created mankind, so I could be born.


God created womankind to keep mankind in check  ;)

God created womankind to keep mankind in check  ;)




Yupper.  ;D ;D ;D




Cat

don't know how I missed this thread, must have been buried before I got back from my trip in April.

My score on that site says that I'm a candidate for clergy.

To answer the question, I have no idea why mankind was created, but I'm glad that I'm here.


According to them, I'm a spiritual dabbler

This'll annoy a few people:  :D

"Why did mankind create God?" - Should be the question

This'll annoy a few people: :D

"Why did mankind create God?" - Should be the question

To explain all those things that he couldn't (such as thunder, weather, the sun rising etc.)...

God created womankind to keep mankind in check ;)


Amen to that. ;)

God created mankind so mankind could create plastics.  Now that plastics abound in every sphere of the ecology, mankind shall be decimated.