So, folks, what d'ya think about the issue of urban sprawl and its destruction of America?  And what about the smart growth/new urbanism movement?

The following are good articles for those of you unfamiliar with the issue:

- Sprawl -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urban_sprawl
- Smart Growth -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smart_growth

I'm against sprawl personally, as I have seen it annihilate the farmland around my hometown.  I wish the government officials in my area would apply the ideals of smart growth to our community.

Any other thoughts?

So...

Apparently, no one else is bothered by the endless construction of big box warehouses, large retail giants, and single income housing developments that is ruining this great country of ours?

I find that hard to believe.  No matter how much we strive for the American Dream, I think we all, deep down inside, grieve the failure to obtain America's Dream.

I worry about the animals and other  wildlife a lot.

I sure as Hell ain't a PETA member...those peolpe scare me.....but Thehated = Animal lover. and thehated = Likes to take drives in the country and see nothing but mother nature.

No, I don't care for the sprawl either, but I'm not too sure about the smart growth idea either. One one hand, it seems like a good idea, and many communities in my area are trying to follow the concept. The problem, however is that unless you have the warehouses & retail stores, etc. to enhance the tax base, the tax burden falls on the homeowners for things such as schools, parks, etc. Our school district just had it's 2nd referendum in 4 years because the "powers that be" have fought commercial growth for so long, and emphasized residential, that there aren't enough tax $$ coming in to fund the additional schools needed with the residential growth. It also doesn't help that our school district covers (I think) 7 different towns & townships, who all have their own "ideas" on growth. If they'd work together, things might be different, but they won't.


Yeah the School District around here covers two towns and several smaller communities.

Our state is trying to prevent urban sprawl. We are a very rural state and really like it that way. Unfortunately, you have these rich dudes who love our state that they come up here and build their houses, then they want to build roads that lead to their houses, etc. etc. If anyone wants to build in this state, they much get many permits to do so. Then if neighbors don't like what you have planned, they can dispute it. Carlos' ex lives in a community that has bought land and they want to build. But, their neighbors don't want this community close by so he is holding up the construction. When we replaced our shed a few years ago, we had to get a permit and had to hang it in front of the house so everyone could see it just in case they had a problem. Since we were replacing an existing one, no one had a problem with it. (I think they had more of a problem with the old one since it was falling apart).  There was also a problem when one of the local McDonald's decided to paint their building red. People had a fit and since they didn't have a permit, they had repaint it.




Cat

Our state is trying to prevent urban sprawl. We are a very rural state and really like it that way. Unfortunately, you have these rich dudes who love our state that they come up here and build their houses, then they want to build roads that lead to their houses, etc. etc. If anyone wants to build in this state, they much get many permits to do so. Then if neighbors don't like what you have planned, they can dispute it. Carlos' ex lives in a community that has bought land and they want to build. But, their neighbors don't want this community close by so he is holding up the construction. When we replaced our shed a few years ago, we had to get a permit and had to hang it in front of the house so everyone could see it just in case they had a problem. Since we were replacing an existing one, no one had a problem with it. (I think they had more of a problem with the old one since it was falling apart).  There was also a problem when one of the local McDonald's decided to paint their building red. People had a fit and since they didn't have a permit, they had repaint it.




Cat
What i hate is people tearing down fairly nice old houses on big lots,then building 2 or more houses or an apartment building in it's place!

As I see it, the problem isn't "urban sprawl" but suburban and ruaral sprawl (this is a nit pick relating to the accepted terminology).  Commecial and residential developers prefer areas outlying urban areas because the taxes are usually lower than in the city centers.  The result is deteroiorating down towns and sprwal along major roads leading into them.  The residential has some justification - people need places to live - with reliable, affordable public transportation, the commercial sprwal is unconscionable.


Our state is trying to prevent urban sprawl. We are a very rural state and really like it that way. Unfortunately, you have these rich dudes who love our state that they come up here and build their houses, then they want to build roads that lead to their houses, etc. etc. If anyone wants to build in this state, they much get many permits to do so. Then if neighbors don't like what you have planned, they can dispute it. Carlos' ex lives in a community that has bought land and they want to build. But, their neighbors don't want this community close by so he is holding up the construction. When we replaced our shed a few years ago, we had to get a permit and had to hang it in front of the house so everyone could see it just in case they had a problem. Since we were replacing an existing one, no one had a problem with it. (I think they had more of a problem with the old one since it was falling apart). There was also a problem when one of the local McDonald's decided to paint their building red. People had a fit and since they didn't have a permit, they had repaint it.




Cat


It is true that we have some strong protections from rampant development - but there are some appraoches to both Rutland and Burlington that look a lot like New Jersey.  Certainly we need development, but we need it on a human scale and we need it in our inner cities, not scaring out countrysides with big box retailers.


So...

Apparently, no one else is bothered by the endless construction of big box warehouses, large retail giants, and single income housing developments that is ruining this great country of ours?

I find that hard to believe. No matter how much we strive for the American Dream, I think we all, deep down inside, grieve the failure to obtain America's Dream.


Quite the contrary, my young friend.  You may have been a bit hasty in this post.  I think many of us are concerned with both the benefits of development and environmental destruction. 

I am really glad to see the outpouring of opposition to suburban sprawl.  I'll admit that I expected as much.  However, I'd like to make a few comments.


No, I don't care for the sprawl either, but I'm not too sure about the smart growth idea either. One one hand, it seems like a good idea, and many communities in my area are trying to follow the concept. The problem, however is that unless you have the warehouses & retail stores, etc. to enhance the tax base, the tax burden falls on the homeowners for things such as schools, parks, etc. Our school district just had it's 2nd referendum in 4 years because the "powers that be" have fought commercial growth for so long, and emphasized residential, that there aren't enough tax $$ coming in to fund the additional schools needed with the residential growth. It also doesn't help that our school district covers (I think) 7 different towns & townships, who all have their own "ideas" on growth. If they'd work together, things might be different, but they won't.


I live in a school district very similar to yours, and I agree that one of smart growth's flaws is its over-emphasis on residential areas.  However, big box warehouses and chain retailers such as WalMart and Home Depot are not the only way to widen the tax base.  Other types of businesses can do the same, if they're not chased out by the warehouses and retail giants.  Also, WalMarts wouldn't nearly be as bad if they were built according to smart growth philophilosophiesd warehouses don't have to be big boxes.  In my hometown, when the railroad was running, there were many warehouses; but they weren't very large and looked nice on the outside.  Also, since the railroad ran through town, they weren't out in the middle of nowhere.  They were a block away from the residential homes and the train depot.  (Also, they were locally owned, so the people in charge actually cared about the town.)

But times have changed.   :(.

Any other thoughts?

I know C.NOIZE, and I'll say this to ya, man:

I don't think our town is really at risk. Wal-Mart isn't making as much as they thought, and it can't even afford its own electricity. It's creating debt for the company. It's damaging, and might go under. It might be a gateway for other stuff, but even those won't drive out the mom-and-pop stuff. People around here seem loyal to people they know and trust. They don't like change, although a new hardware store might change that.

We might lose our farm-town feel somewhat, but I think we're safe as a little Pennsylvania town. For now, anyway.

The problem of Urban Sprawl is actually a problem of bad(and sometimes shady) city planning boards.
The country is made up of people and people need accommodations. But any accommodation has to be done in a way so as not to be destructive to the city in which the accommodations are being made. In my city the city planners, I think, are on the shady side, making building codes, then, unless there is an outcry, they give easements to override the codes leading to overdevelopment. I would guess that that situation is the same in many communities. At the moment the residents have had more than enough and the next election will probably bring changes, the problem is what they will be able to do between now and the next election, that, and it isn't always easy to get people fired up to attend a meeting of the Planning Board, on a Wednesday night, in an area without parking.  There will always be problems with development and changes in the make up and character of all communties, not always good, not always bad. The key is having the people of the community involved in the changes, and being realistic in the truth that things can't remain the same, but different, is not always good, not always bad.

I'm not too familiar with "Urban Sprawl" but the Gentrification of The Lower East Side(Manhattan, NYC) scares me.

I worry about the animals and other  wildlife a lot.

I sure as Hell ain't a PETA member...those peolpe scare me.....but Thehated = Animal lover. and thehated = Likes to take drives in the country and see nothing but mother nature.

You know something, fella, that sounds a lot more menacing than I think you intended!  Whoah!!
:D :o

The problem of Urban Sprawl is actually a problem of bad(and sometimes shady) city planning boards.
The country is made up of people and people need accommodations. But any accommodation has to be done in a way so as not to be destructive to the city in which the accommodations are being made. In my city the city planners, I think, are on the shady side, making building codes, then, unless there is an outcry, they give easements to override the codes leading to overdevelopment. I would guess that that situation is the same in many communities. At the moment the residents have had more than enough and the next election will probably bring changes, the problem is what they will be able to do between now and the next election, that, and it isn't always easy to get people fired up to attend a meeting of the Planning Board, on a Wednesday night, in an area without parking.  There will always be problems with development and changes in the make up and character of all communties, not always good, not always bad. The key is having the people of the community involved in the changes, and being realistic in the truth that things can't remain the same, but different, is not always good, not always bad.

I always love those signs in public transport, every "housing crunch" in Boston, you'd see ads like, "If a luxury appartment is what you're looking for, a luxury apartment is what wei've got!"  The free market will render any domicile off limits no matter how many people go homeless.  That's why we don't let the private sector take charge of everything, right?  Or did some of you guys get drunk and forget?
::)

I know C.NOIZE, and I'll say this to ya, man:

I don't think our town is really at risk. Wal-Mart isn't making as much as they thought, and it can't even afford its own electricity. It's creating debt for the company. It's damaging, and might go under. It might be a gateway for other stuff, but even those won't drive out the mom-and-pop stuff. People around here seem loyal to people they know and trust. They don't like change, although a new hardware store might change that.

We might lose our farm-town feel somewhat, but I think we're safe as a little Pennsylvania town. For now, anyway.


I wouldn't be so calm.  Sure, we might support the mom-and-pop stuff now, but just you wait.  Give sprawl time to catch up with itself.  There is a huge development being planned (and soon to be built now that spring has come) north of town.  All those new people won't have the dedication to the mom-and-pop stuff that the "townies" do.  They will have known about Wal-Mart previously and choose to support it.  Sprawl is like a weed.  It doesn't grow overnight, but given the chance, it will suffocate the life out of the flowers (or mom-and-pop stuff) around it.  Suburban sprawl must be stopped now.


The problem of Urban Sprawl is actually a problem of bad(and sometimes shady) city planning boards.


I've got at least five surrounding me.   :(

All these issues really come down to profits and more profits.  Back in I think the summer of '64 there was an urban uprising in Newark NJ.  The central ward, the black ghetto, was burning.  The National guard was called out and surrounded, but did not invade the area.  The mayoy Hugh Adonisio, was asked what he planned.  "Let it burn" he said, "then we will apply for urban renewal funds and gentrify the area."  GREAT public policy (he says sarcastically).

How did I know if I clicked on something entitled Urban Sprawl, I would find out that it was started by you C.Noize?  How did I know!?