Recently, there has been a lot of anger directed at Japan by China, and both North and South Korea.  And all of this is caused by new textbooks that talk about World War II.

Now having lived for over a year in Japan, I have a lot of love and affection for the country.  But one thing that I do aknowledge is their blindness to their own shortcommings.  One of these is still their guilt in the second World War.

Being an avid student of WWII (most specifically the Pacific Theatre), it is obvious that Japan has much to atone for.  "Comfort Women" was the euphamism used during the time to describe what was essentially sexual slavery.  Women from Korea, China, the Philippines, and other conquered nations were turned into prostitutes for the soldiers.  In the newest edition of the textbooks, all references to this practice were removed.

Even more disturbing is the fact that they now list the infamous "Rape Of Nanking" as an "incident" where "many Soldiers and civilians were killed".  This is far different from the over 300,000 that were really massacred.

In addition, they are once again claiming 2 islands off the South Korean coast.  These islands were taken by Japan during the war, and returned to Korea after it's conclusion.  South Korea has even had a Coast Guard outpost on one of the islands since 1954.  But Japan has claimed them, and is now calling them "Takeshima".

Because of this, North Korea is threatening to pull out of the Nuclear Disarmament talks with Japan, the US and Russia.  Unless Japan removes itself from these talks, they are threatening to withdraw.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/world/20050405-1851-japan-textbooks.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4415147.stm
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000101&sid=arIkNJqYDf64&refer=japan

People in every country are miseducated as to what their own country is guilty of. I know I'm not the only one here who had to learn the whole story about US treatment of Natives from somewhere OTHER than public school.

Textbooks in TX each say "Special Texas Edition" because Texas will not purchase textbooks unless the content has a Conservative bias.

http://www.theexperiment.org/articles.php?news_id=2094

the japenese are a proud people who see shame in defeat. unfortunatley, the truth about their war practices may never reach the average citizen.

the japenese are a proud people who see shame in defeat. unfortunatley, the truth about their war practices may never reach the average citizen.


That can be said of most countries.  The USA wasn't(isn't) very good at teaching alot of sordid things
in our history, of which there are many.

That can be said of most countries.  The USA wasn't(isn't) very good at teaching alot of sordid things
in our history, of which there are many.


i know that in canada they never taught us how the ukranians were interred in detention camps during the first world war or how the canadian government turned away a ship loaded with jewish refugees. that ship went back to europe and none of the jewish passengers survived the holocaust.

i know that in canada they never taught us how the ukranians were interred in detention camps during the first world war or how the canadian government turned away a ship loaded with jewish refugees. that ship went back to europe and none of the jewish passengers survived the holocaust.


I think that was the Bremin, which was also turned away from US ports.  History is so full of horrors and atrocities that it is enough to make one weep, and no country can claim to be "holier than thou".  It is unfortunate that the Japanese (and the Texans) want to glorify and hid the sordid past, both at the same time.

I think that was the Bremin, which was also turned away from US ports.  History is so full of horrors and atrocities that it is enough to make one weep, and no country can claim to be "holier than thou".  It is unfortunate that the Japanese (and the Texans) want to glorify and hid the sordid past, both at the same time.


There were actually many ships, not just one.  And there were treated that way all over the world.  The St. Lewis was turned away in New York, after being refused entry in it's original port of Havana Cuba.  There is also the Struma, which was refused entry to Turkey, after the Brittish refused to allow it into Palestine.  It was torpedoed in the Black Sea (most likely by a Soviet submarine) with the loss of 767 passengers.  There was only 1 survivor.  There were other ships that went to Rhodes, and were also refused entry, having to return to Italy or other ports in Southern Europe.

There were actually many ships, not just one.  And there were treated that way all over the world.  The St. Lewis was turned away in New York, after being refused entry in it's original port of Havana Cuba.  There is also the Struma, which was refused entry to Turkey, after the Brittish refused to allow it into Palestine.  It was torpedoed in the Black Sea (most likely by a Soviet submarine) with the loss of 767 passengers.  There was only 1 survivor.  There were other ships that went to Rhodes, and were also refused entry, having to return to Italy or other ports in Southern Europe.


I didn't know there were so many, but it doesn't surprise me one bit.  As I said, there are many reprehensible chapters in every nation's history.  If we are to learn from the past, we need to own those abominations, repent them, and move on.  Thanks for the additional info.

I didn't know there were so many, but it doesn't surprise me one bit.  As I said, there are many reprehensible chapters in every nation's history.  If we are to learn from the past, we need to own those abominations, repent them, and move on.  Thanks for the additional info.


The pleight of Jews before and during WWII is a shame to all of the world, not any one nation.  Sadly, there is enough blame for everybody to share.

One thing I realize though is that you also have to take it in the context of the time.  While the US, England and the like were hardly saints in how they treated the Jews, it is a far cry from how Germany, Russia, the USSR, Poland, and other nations treated them.  The same goes with a lot of events in the past.  It is so easy to look at past events and "second guess" the decision makers, not relaizing we are looking back 50+ years, with a more enlightened view and much more information then they possessed.  Remember, most people did not believe that Germany had the "Final Solution" until they were smacked in the face with the facts when the war was over (and many do not believe it even today).

Japan however takes the "white wash" approach.  A lot of this is cultural.  Bushido and Shinto still has a firm grip on the culture of Japan.  Even though Shinto is no longer the "State Religion" of Japan, it is hard to remove thousands of years of traditions in only 60 years.

In addition, they are once again claiming 2 islands off the South Korean coast.  These islands were taken by Japan during the war, and returned to Korea after it's conclusion.  South Korea has even had a Coast Guard outpost on one of the islands since 1954.  But Japan has claimed them, and is now calling them "Takeshima".

Because of this, North Korea is threatening to pull out of the Nuclear Disarmament talks with Japan, the US and Russia.  Unless Japan removes itself from these talks, they are threatening to withdraw.



Can you hear the sabres rattling? Looks like more North Korean brinkmanship to me. What do they care if Japan is claiming two SOUTH Korean islands? Besides which, as if North Korea can criticise anyone about anything.

Japan has a long way to go in acknowledging its dark past. The horrors of Japanese imperialism are comparable to anything that Hitler and the Nazis did, and unlike Japan, Germany has gone to great lengths to apologize and pay reparations for WW2 war crimes. The Japanese government, I don't think, has officially apologized for anything.

I agree.  I honestly have to doubt that they would have been turned away had the countries who did it known about the concentration camps.  I could be wrong, but the optimist in me would like to think that was the case :-\\


Well, actually Germant at the time did have "Concentration Camps".  And they were publically known to the world.  Germany was actually proud of them.  They were also publically called "Relocation Camps".

These were more like the Internment Camps in the US later during the war.  Large open compounds, with living facilities, schools, work areas, and even public areas.  Most were located on the Eastern German frontier.  Red Cross visits were frequent, with newsreels often taken for distribution worldwide of smiling happy children "living without fear in their protected compound".

It was only after Germany took over Poland and built their "Death Camps" that the real atrocities started.  By this time, Germans accepted the "Concentration Camps", and just assumed that the Jews, Gypsies, Gays, Jehova Witness, and other "Undesierables" were being moved to similar facilities in Poland.  Most were shocked and outraged at what REALLY happened.

Both the World and the German people accepted Hitler's lies.  The original Concentration Camps were not all that bad.  Certainly far better then the Gulags of Stalinist USSR.  And they only did what the name suggests, to concentrate the "undesireables" into a central location, away from their "polluting influence" of the German people.

Do not think that I support the ideas though.  Even these "innocent" camps were horrible.  But they were not the same as the "Death Camps" like Auschwitz that most people associate with the words "Concentration Camp", even though it was really a "Death Camp".

And remember the world situation.  This was barely a generation after the worst of the "Reservation" system in the US.  England occupied both India and Palestine, in addition to Egypt.  Only a few decades had passed since the Armenian Genocide.  China was struggling back to independence after the occupation brought on by the Boxer Rebellion.  Russia had the Gulags in Siberia, and most of Europe was still struggling to rebuild itself after the First World War.  Most of the world was struggling with a world-wide depression.

At this time, nobody wanted or cared about "yet another batch of refugees".  There were refugees everywhere, not just Jews from central Europe.  And nobody knew the horrors that were to come, because most were trying hard to rpevent a repeat of the World War.  Appeasement was the word of the day.

That's what I mean, though.  I like to think that if the world had truly known about Bergen-Belsen & Auschwitz and the others, that they wouldn't have been turned away by ANYONE.  I know, it's probably overly optimistic, but I would like to think that way, anyway.


I would like to think that way too, but the facts just don't support that optimistic view.  The whole worrld knew about "Krystal macht", and could clearly understand [ufMien Kampf.  In the name of appeasement the western powers neglected and sacrificed the Jewish population of Europe.  To refer to another thread, that was EVIL.

One thing I realize though is that you also have to take it in the context of the time.  While the US, England and the like were hardly saints in how they treated the Jews, it is a far cry from how Germany, Russia, the USSR, Poland, and other nations treated them.  The same goes with a lot of events in the past.  It is so easy to look at past events and "second guess" the decision makers, not relaizing we are looking back 50+ years, with a more enlightened view and much more information then they possessed.  Remember, most people did not believe that Germany had the "Final Solution" until they were smacked in the face with the facts when the war was over (and many do not believe it even today).



I find no credibility at all in whole idea that human beings are somehow 'more enlightened' now than we were in past eras.  People KNEW slavery was reprehensible, they KNEW the persecution of the Jews was reprehensible, they KNEW Japanese internment camps were reprehensible, they KNEW McCarthyism was reprehensible... they KNOW the situation in Darfur is reprehensible.  It's no different now than it was then.  It's not as if we learn to become better human beings from these situations, because there's nothing much we're interesting in learning.  We're willing to take action if the situations affects us or those we know and love, otherwise, we say "tsk, tsk that's really a shame..." and move on.  Let's not let our forbears off the hook for not having the benefit of our 'wisdom'.  That's simultaneously naive and arrogant.

Britain didn't declare war on Germany because of the concentration camps, and the invasion of Poland was just an excuse. It wouldn't have taken a genius to work out that, with Germany allied with Italy and Russia, once they had all of eastern Europe there was only one direction they could go after that, and guess what? They were right. Britain HAD to declare war on Germany because it was becoming increasingly obvious that Hitler would have invaded eventually.

I find no credibility at all in whole idea that human beings are somehow 'more enlightened' now than we were in past eras.  People KNEW slavery was reprehensible, they KNEW the persecution of the Jews was reprehensible, they KNEW Japanese internment camps were reprehensible, they KNEW McCarthyism was reprehensible... they KNOW the situation in Darfur is reprehensible.  It's no different now than it was then.  It's not as if we learn to become better human beings from these situations, because there's nothing much we're interesting in learning.  We're willing to take action if the situations affects us or those we know and love, otherwise, we say "tsk, tsk that's really a shame..." and move on.  Let's not let our forbears off the hook for not having the benefit of our 'wisdom'.  That's simultaneously naive and arrogant.


Some are more enlightened, some are still the same way they were 500+ years ago.  I was speaking in general, not specifically.

And no, not everybody knew slavery was evil.  After all, it was an accepted institution for over 4,000 years.  In fact, it is still occuring in areas of Africa today.  And where is the world outcry?  Genocide is also a normal human behavior according to human history.  And yet, Genocide still goes on, but nobody cares.

But "Wisdom" and "Philosophy" is something that accumulates.  Each generation gets wiser because it stands on the shoulders of their ancestors.  Without Thomas Paine, could Engles and Marx have written what they did?  Without the Magna Carta and Mayflower Compact could our own Founding Fathers have made a Constitution?