The Florida legislature is soon to vote on a bill that allows people to use deadly force against assailants (or perceived assailants) without first trying to flee.

Thoughts on this?  I think it's ghastly and stupid.  It is laden with rightwing myths about how everybody is real nice when we're all afraid of getting our brains blown out by the other guy coming down the street.  America is socially devolving and Florida is leading the retreat!

MORE ON THIS
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A28337-2005Apr5.html

This is madness. Of course people ought to be able to use self-defence but to just say it's OK to use deadly force? Why legislate that? This will undoubtedly result in many innocent deaths.

If it ain't broken, don't fix it! Has there been a problem with would-be victims being sent to prison for defending themselves lately? Are the courts not doing a good enough job determining on a case-by-case basis just when the use of deadly force was acceptable? That's exactly how these incidents need to be dealt with, on a case-by-case basis. Circumstances in situations like this vary too widely for a STATE congress to be setting criteria.

The thing one must understand about Florida is that it's basically two state living as one. In urban areas, one has an overwhelming majority of Liberals (most of whom come from up north and are known as "Snowbirds").... in areas surrounding urban centres, one has Conservatives - lots of 'em. Florida is mostly non-urban, though that is changing. The outskirts and backwoods and small-town sectors  take up a vast majority of the landmass in the state, ergo the Conservative government.

Having lived in Sarasota, an urban centre, I can tell you that election time is very misleading. Everywhere you go in Sarasota (except the richest of neighbourhoods), you are lead to believe that the Democrat is in like flynt... But come election day, you are totally shocked to find otherwise. You ask "How could this be? Everyone here supported so and so..." The anwer lies out in the boondocks (and on Longboat Key  ;)).

If it's legal to use lethal force if you believe your life is in danger, prosecuting anybody for murder of the second-degree becomes quite difficult if there's any sort of a struggle.  If you want to waste somebody, make sure you kill 'em dead and leave no eyewitnesses!

This is great!!!  I'm moving to Florida, mounting a 50 caliber on my car, and will blast ANYONE who cuts me off, claiming that they threatened my life.  Did I say a 50 calibre?  Maybe an anti-tank gun.  Its not nice to mess with the Don.

Remember, this law is only applicable if somebody breaks into your private residence.

Now come on, be serious.  Do you all mean that a criminal that breaks into your house should have more rights then you do?  Most of the time, you only find out a burglar is dangerous is after you have become a statistic.

Myself, I think this is a great law.  It is time we stopped treating criminals the same as law abiding citizens.  If somebody breaks into my house, why should I have to flee?  It is my house after all!

This is a far cry from the law in states like New Jersey.  There, you have to first attempt to flee from a criminal.  Then you have to warn them that you will shoot them.  Then you have to determine that they actually have a gun or are an actual threat.  Only after you do all of that can you defend yourself.  Can you say "insanity"?

When it comes to a criminal that breaks into my house, I say "shoot first - before they shoot you".  After all, we are talking about criminals that break into houses.

The thing one must understand about Florida is that it's basically two state living as one. In urban areas, one has an overwhelming majority of Liberals (most of whom come from up north and are known as "Snowbirds").... in areas surrounding urban centres, one has Conservatives - lots of 'em. Florida is mostly non-urban, though that is changing. The outskirts and backwoods and small-town sectors  take up a vast majority of the landmass in the state, ergo the Conservative government.


That's how it is all over the country.  Urban areas vote democrat, rural areas vote republican.

That's how it is all over the country.  Urban areas vote democrat, rural areas vote republican.

Poor misguided rural areas!

I can't wait until the first bar fight ends in someone getting killed and the SOB who did it gets off because of this ::)

Mod to add:  I agree 100% about someone breaking into a private home.  I would have no problem with someone who used the "shoot first, ask questions later" philosophy ;)


Well, then that in a court of law would fall under "placing oneself into harms way", unless they were just somebody that a jerk decided to beat up on.  For example, I do not even go into bars unless it is to work.  But there have been a few times that jerks have tried to get me into a fight, because they were drunk and/or stupid.  To me, their removal from the gene pool might not be a bad thing.  8)

As for urban Vs. Rural, there are major differences in the lifestyles.  In an urban area, there is normally enough tax base to spread around so that the loafers and do-nothings can still get by on the government dole.  In a rural area, it is much more likely to be "hand to mouth" type government.  And they tend to live by the creed "Those that do not work, do not eat".

And do not get me wrong, I agree with help for those that need it 100%.  But sadly, all to many people abuse the generosity of the Government, to the detriment of us all.

And do not get me wrong, I agree with help for those that need it 100%.  But sadly, all to many people abuse the generosity of the Government, to the detriment of us all.


You ain't kidding there.  I have no problems with some handouts if you get down on your luck, or if you 100% need it for certain things.  But these perfectly able workers who have been on medicaid and unemployment checks for years need to be cut-off.

Well, then that in a court of law would fall under "placing oneself into harms way", unless they were just somebody that a jerk decided to beat up on.  For example, I do not even go into bars unless it is to work.  But there have been a few times that jerks have tried to get me into a fight, because they were drunk and/or stupid.  To me, their removal from the gene pool might not be a bad thing.   8)

As for urban Vs. Rural, there are major differences in the lifestyles.  In an urban area, there is normally enough tax base to spread around so that the loafers and do-nothings can still get by on the government dole.  In a rural area, it is much more likely to be "hand to mouth" type government.  And they tend to live by the creed "Those that do not work, do not eat".

And do not get me wrong, I agree with help for those that need it 100%.  But sadly, all to many people abuse the generosity of the Government, to the detriment of us all.

Yeah, come up to Amherst!  Every Saturday there's a giant free barbecue, all the beer you can drink, and we all get high and play night softball:
Loafers vs. Do-nothings!  Wait a minute, that describes every day for me!
Mr. Mushroom, are you totally serious with ths stuff?
:D :D :D

You ain't kidding there.  I have no problems with some handouts if you get down on your luck, or if you 100% need it for certain things.  But these perfectly able workers who have been on medicaid and unemployment checks for years need to be cut-off.

You Southerners know a thing or two about no jobs since the factories shut down.  Family farms gobbled up.  The core of the agricultural-industrial based economy was blown out decades ago.  Wal-Mart shows its empolyees (sorry, associates) how to apply for foodstamps.  Listen man, you don't want the taxpayers to have to fund social services, but you don't want the government to intervene and tell the Wal-Marts of the sorry azz service sectors they have to pay a living wage!
So what do you want?  Families to go hungry?
One thing that'll rack up gun violence is desperation and nothing to lose!

You Southerners know a thing or two about no jobs since the factories shut down.   Family farms gobbled up.  The core of the agricultural-industrial based economy was blown out decades ago.  Wal-Mart shows its empolyees (sorry, associates) how to apply for foodstamps.  Listen man, you don't want the taxpayers to have to fund social services, but you don't want the government to intervene and tell the Wal-Marts of the sorry azz service sectors they have to pay a living wage!
So what do you want?  Families to go hungry?
One thing that'll rack up gun violence is desperation and nothing to lose!


Wait, do you agree or not?  Should perfectly able workers be able to live on medicaid and unemployment for YEARS?

Wait, do you agree or not?  Should perfectly able workers be able to live on medicaid and unemployment for YEARS?

If that's what it takes to keep them from being sick and hungry in the streets.  No problem whatsoever.  There are a lot of able-bodied people the job market has no use for. 

Florida is also going to pass the "I will love the police as they kick the sh*t out of me in the street" bill. 

The Florida legislature is soon to vote on a bill that allows people to use deadly force against assailants (or perceived assailants) without first trying to flee.



They voted.  The bill passed the Florida state house and the Florida state senate, and the governor of Florida says he will sign it.

They voted.  The bill passed the Florida state house and the Florida state senate, and the governor of Florida says he will sign it.

Well hot g*dd*mn for Florida!  Now come out with both barrels blazing!
:P

Fight or flight? Florida gun folk to be given option
April 09, 2005
The Australian
By: Geoff Elliott

IN Florida it's Terri Schiavo's right to life one week and guns, guns, guns the next.

State Governor Jeb Bush this week signalled he would sign into law a bill giving the people of Florida the right to "meet force with force" in the bar, on the street or just about anywhere else without fear of prosecution.

Critics have said the legislation, which was backed by the National Rifle Association, will promote a Wild West culture in the state, where simple arguments might escalate into violent deaths, while Republican backers say it increases an individual's safety and will reduce crime.

Dubbed the Kill Bill, it has been passed by the Senate and lower house in Florida's state assembly, leaving just Governor Bush, brother of President George W. Bush, to sign it off.

His spokesman said Mr Bush would "evaluate" the bill, but already the Governor has described it as "a good, commonsense, anti-crime issue".

"Our crime rate's dropping, and it's because of measures that allow people to protect themselves and their properties, as well as putting habitual violent offenders away for longer periods of time," he said this week.

The bill won final approval in the lower house on Tuesday by a 94-20 vote. Two weeks ago it passed the Senate 39-0. It is due to come into law on October 1.

The bill wipes from law what had been commonly described as a person's "duty to retreat" from an attack and will instead allow that person to stand their ground without fear of criminal prosecution or a civil lawsuit.

It is an extension of the so-called Castle doctrine, in which current law allows the people of Florida to defend themselves with force inside their homes or vehicles, but not usually in public places without first attempting to back away.

"This is about meeting force with force," said Dennis Baxley, a Republican state representative and NRA member. "I'm sorry, but if I'm attacked, I shouldn't have a duty to retreat. That's a good way to get shot in the back.

"You are empowering our citizens of Florida to have a safer society. Some violent rape will not occur because somebody felt empowered by this bill."

Democrats largely opposed the bill. "For a house that talks about the culture of life, it's ironic that we would be devaluing life in this bill," said state Democrat Dan Gelber, of Miami Beach. "That's exactly what we're doing."

"Culture of life" was an oft-repeated refrain from Republicans -- from Mr Bush down -- as a rallying cry to try to prolong the life of Ms Schiavo, the woman who was lying in a permanent vegetative state in a Florida hospice. Her feeding tube was removed under order of the Florida courts and she died last Friday.

"All this bill will do is sell more guns and possibly turn Florida into the OK Corral," said Irv Slosberg, a Democrat from Boca Raton.

Link: http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,12798729%255E2703,00.html

The Florida legislature is soon to vote on a bill that allows people to use deadly force against assailants (or perceived assailants) without first trying to flee.

Thoughts on this?  I think it's ghastly and stupid.  It is laden with rightwing myths about how everybody is real nice when we're all afraid of getting our brains blown out by the other guy coming down the street.  America is socially devolving and Florida is leading the retreat!

MORE ON THIS
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A28337-2005Apr5.html


I generally agree with your take on this issue Maxwell.

The idea that I can legally blow away some guy on the street that I "perceive as a threat" is incredible.  The civil lawyers will have a field day with this one, 'cause it is a lawsuit-generator if I ever saw one.

Now... as to an assailant on my own property?  Bottom line if somebody breaks into my house, I refuse to "attempt to flee".  That sucker is gonna find himself in a hailstorm of lead like he's never seen before.

I generally agree with your take on this issue Maxwell.

The idea that I can legally blow away some guy on the street that I "perceive as a threat" is incredible.  The civil lawyers will have a field day with this one, 'cause it is a lawsuit-generator if I ever saw one.

Now... as to an assailant on my own property?  Bottom line if somebody breaks into my house, I refuse to "attempt to flee".  That sucker is gonna find himself in a hailstorm of lead like he's never seen before.

Just shoot the S.O.B. dead before he even gets a chance to reach for his weapon.  Otherwise he's gonna get you first, and there are no second chances!
:o

http://www.hostfile.com/home/darlene/florida2.gif

I guess everybody in Florida wants to be Wyatt Earp.  Honey, get me my rod.

http://www.hostfile.com/home/darlene/florida2.gif

FLORIDA: AMERICA'S PENIS!
;D

FLORIDA: AMERICA'S PENIS!
;D


Always looking to f*** Cuba.

Always looking to f*** Cuba.


By letting people who sailed 90 miles on the ocean in a small raft stay in Florida?

By letting people who sailed 90 miles on the ocean in a small raft stay in Florida?

No, it's the Haitians who are persona non grata!

the dirty harry dream vacation...