I say Psychological, Weakness, and Ignorance.  I don't say Free Will because it is generally a religious term. 

I do think that there is no excuse for crime, though.  People can often prevent insanity and if they can't then they still need to be institutionalized.  I don't believe in Possession.  It is pure BS.

Fair question.  I said all but "possession."  That's a lot of hogwash.  I don't buy demonic possession.
"Free will" is not "religious" per se, it can be merely philosophical.  I believe "free will" is involved in every deed we may deem truly "evil."

Fair question.  I said all but "possession."  That's a lot of hogwash.  I don't buy demonic possession.
"Free will" is not "religious" per se, it can be merely philosophical.  I believe "free will" is involved in every deed we may deem truly "evil."


Good points Max. :)

I believe we make our own choices, but that some people are more prone to making the wrong ones.  That imo falls more into "Weakness". 

I think a major cause of acts of evil is isolation and dissassociation. I do not believe in evil per se as a concept - it is a perspective as we as a society or as individual socially agree and perceive it. Many acts of evil, as we would perceive them, are carried out by people in a state of amorality wherein they do not perceive what they are doing to be evil in their judgement. The acts of the nazis, the khmer Rouge in cambodia, the russians under Stalin, etc and on a more individual basis, the characters of Charles Manson and may other sociopaths. The worst evils are carried out by people who have rationally justified their actions adn this includes the rapists and child molesters. Inthe case of individuals because of the way their twisted desires are tabooed in society to the extent that they cannot admit to them without fear for their personal security they become increasingly isolated and resentful to the norms which force them to repress their actions. Eventually, in some cases, this boils over into acts of tremendous evil which, if not stopped by society will continue on and on until the individuals responsible are caught and punished.

So what I have very awkwardly tried to express above (there are much better treatises on this subject in books and on the web) is that evil is not a simplistic phenomenon. It has many causes and because we cannot often treat the symptoms as a society we find ourselves facing the consequences and having to quarantine such people through imprisonment or even the DP in some countries.

Just bear in mind that evil, as an absolute, does not exist except for those of religious beliefs and that we opnly undestand evil within its context. For example, to us in the UK the IRA terrorists were often described as 'evil men, murderers and child killers' whereas at the same time, in the Irish bars and clubs of New York and Boston they were 'freedom fighters and heroes of the republic'.

Don't get me wrong I have my own perspective on what is 'evil' in the world and much of it is the same as everyone elses - I just don't think it is good or healthy for people to believe in the idea of evil as a disembodied force within the universe. We are all capable of acts of evil but thankfully most of us make it through life without carrying any out.

Free will.. and something to instigate it.. Anyone can commit evil, and we do quite often. We just need an instigator, be it temptation or anger, but something must happen.

All except possession, I don't buy that bs.

I think a major cause of acts of evil is isolation and dissassociation.

Good point.  It's on a case-by-case basis. For instance, I don't think ALL serial killers are evil.  I don't see Jeffrey Dahmer as "evil."  I think he was psychopathic, confused, and disassociated from reality.  On the other hand, I see Ted Bundy as "evil" because his pathology was more fierce.
Dahmer killed young men because he wanted to have companions that would never abandon him.  Bundy killed young women because it gratified him to see them suffer.  Dahmer's actions were "evil" in the sense that he caused incalculable suffering for his victims and their families.  I have trouble calling Dahmer intrinsically evil, I see more a person who went terribly awry.  Bundy, on the other hand, seemed intrisically evil because of the cold, calculating, and gleeful manner with which he kidnapped, tortured, and killed his victims.  Neither man, however, should have been allowed to see freedom again.

It could be money.

Money does a lot of good things. But when I sit down and try to think of why bad thing happen and try and trace them back to the very beggining it always comes back to money.  The love for money is the root of all evil.

As always, wrong, but it's one heck of a hypothesis.

Good point.  It's on a case-by-case basis. For instance, I don't think ALL serial killers are evil.  I don't see Jeffrey Dahmer as "evil."  I think he was psychopathic, confused, and disassociated from reality.  On the other hand, I see Ted Bundy as "evil" because his pathology was more fierce.
Dahmer killed young men because he wanted to have companions that would never abandon him.  Bundy killed young women because it gratified him to see them suffer.  Dahmer's actions were "evil" in the sense that he caused incalculable suffering for his victims and their families.  I have trouble calling Dahmer intrinsically evil, I see more a person who went terribly awry.  Bundy, on the other hand, seemed intrisically evil because of the cold, calculating, and gleeful manner with which he kidnapped, tortured, and killed his victims.  Neither man, however, should have been allowed to see freedom again.
I just read an interesting article from a woman who has studied serial killers for over thirty years including the two mentioned above who has come to the conclussion that some people are genetically inclined to behave in that way.She has studied over 80 serial killers.To quote:
'Basically, the serial killer looks like anyone else in the world while they're growing up.But when they reach adolescence, something triggers what I believe is a genetic predisposition to kill and they're  off and running.Frequently, they murder their first victim as a teenager.Then they hold off for a while - until their twenties - when they start to kill in the pattern they'll use until they are caught.' She also believes that serial killers can somehow contain their murderous urges if their particular circumstances protect them in some way. 'A marriage, a demanding job, a strong parental influence - all these things  form a protective structure around them. But once that structure is gone, then this chaotic"habit" takes over'   

I chose "demonic possession" simply for the irony effect. It's about as BS as the concept of evil itself. Who gets to choose what is evil and what isn't? Who got to make the decision that murder is evil but stealing a paper clip isn't? I don't put any stock in good or evil, I see things and behaviours as desirable and undesirable according to my own personal likes and dislikes which have been formed by a combination of upbringing, specific rebellion from the latter, personal thought, personal experience, social convention, and specific rebellion from that latter as well. IMHO, evil is an abstract concept based on falsehoods and assumptions on the part of world cultures. Western culture says adultery is evil while some cultures don't even have a word for such a normal thing.

I just read an interesting article from a woman who has studied serial killers for over thirty years including the two mentioned above who has come to the conclussion that some people are genetically inclined to behave in that way.She has studied over 80 serial killers.To quote:
'Basically, the serial killer looks like anyone else in the world while they're growing up.But when they reach adolescence, something triggers what I believe is a genetic predisposition to kill and they're  off and running.Frequently, they murder their first victim as a teenager.Then they hold off for a while - until their twenties - when they start to kill in the pattern they'll use until they are caught.' She also believes that serial killers can somehow contain their murderous urges if their particular circumstances protect them in some way. 'A marriage, a demanding job, a strong parental influence - all these things  form a protective structure around them. But once that structure is gone, then this chaotic"habit" takes over'   

Yes, I've heard of this theory.  The pattern often holds true.  Dahmer, for instance, did exactly that.  He killed his first victim at 18, but didn't kill again until several years later.  The predisposition to kill must be accompanied by sociopathy that allows the killer to see his victims as objects.  I don't know what a person does if he or she has the inborn urge to kill but the conscience that says it is wrong to take another human's life.  What if a man tells authorities, "please lock me up forever, if I'm left to roam free, I'll kill people"?  That must be quite a struggle.  I have heard of cases in which sex offenders have begged to remain locked up after their sentences because they know they'll do it again if they go free.
Going back to Dahmer and Bundy, from what I've seen they both understood society considers it wrong to kill.  Neither man could stop himself.  It seems to me Bundy exercised much more calculation and fuller consent of the will in his killing.
Whereas male serial killers kill mostly for sexual gratification, females (of which there are far fewer) tend to kill to get at insurance money and so forth.  Females tend to be less interested in making the victim suffer, and rending flesh with their hands, and more interested in getting the job done without being detected.  That's why more female than male serial murderers use poisoning as a method.

Define "evil".  I didn't vote because I'm not sure what "evil" means and because the choices are too limited.  To me, evil is purposefully doing an injury to another person.  It happens every day, and for many more reasons than those listed.  Greed, for example, is not among the choices, nor hatred, nor passion, nor religious conviction, nor ideology...

If you accept my dsefinition of evil, we might say that evil have been done on this board, long distance.

Let me add that disagreeing with someone is not evil, but casting aspersions, calling names, calling for devine retribution, etc, could be seen as evil.  If the shoe fits...

To be honest, I don't believe in "Evil".  I think bad people come from a mix of mindset and their surroundings; I don't believe there's really any normal people that just choose to become that way. 

I'm not a pussy though.  I think all people have to take responsibility for their actions.

Define "evil"


Pulling out the VERY old dictionary my mother gave me....

Evil: 1. Injurious mischief.  2. Morally corrupt, wicked.  3.  Producing or threatening sorrow, distress, or calamity.  4. Anything impairing happiness or welfare or depriving of good.  5. Moral badness.

-Webster's new collegiate dictionary, 1953.

For the purposes of logical discussion, there's no such thing as absolute evil.  Everyone's got their own ideas of what kind of behaviors are 'acceptable' or 'unacceptable' under whichever circumstances, and they usually boil down to what that individual can or can't personally 'relate to' or sympathize with.

"Moral badness".  :) I didn't even know 'badness' was a real word! Is that one of those American words like 'wellness'? Anyway, I can't buy a dictionary definition of an abstract construct. "Evil" is both a subjective and objective concept and it depends on your perspective as to what constitutes "evil". Did Hitler consider himself to be evil? Does bin Laden? He and his followers justify what they do on the basis that their enemies are evil. The guys who blew up two nightclubs in Bali didn't think they were evil. They thought they'd go to heaven for it.

People rarely do "evil" simply for the sake of it, and many who do don't necessarily believe they are committing an evil.

"Moral badness".  :) I didn't even know 'badness' was a real word! Is that one of those American words like 'wellness'? Anyway, I can't buy a dictionary definition of an abstract construct. "Evil" is both a subjective and objective concept and it depends on your perspective as to what constitutes "evil". Did Hitler consider himself to be evil? Does bin Laden? He and his followers justify what they do on the basis that their enemies are evil. The guys who blew up two nightclubs in Bali didn't think they were evil. They thought they'd go to heaven for it.

People rarely do "evil" simply for the sake of it, and many who do don't necessarily believe they are committing an evil.


Then we have the Zodiack.

What does the zodiac have to do with this?

I think he meant the Zodiac killer, I'm probably wrong though ::)


The greatest serial killer of all time.  Vallejo, California.

I don't know why, but I love reading books about these guys and girls.


One of the scariest people ever is....awe man is mind escapes me.  He was known as "Grandpa" or soemthing like that.  He'd lour little boys and girls to him.  Then he'd kill them and eat them.  He as the idea for Hannible Lector.

The greatest serial killer of all time.  Vallejo, California.

I don't know why, but I love reading books about these guys and girls.


Actually Pedro Lopez from Columbia was the worst serial killer of all time. He murdered over 300 women across Colombia, Peru, and Ecuador over a period of about six years in the late 1970s.


One of the scariest people ever is....awe man is mind escapes me.  He was known as "Grandpa" or soemthing like that.  He'd lour little boys and girls to him.  Then he'd kill them and eat them.  He as the idea for Hannible Lector.


Albert Fish. He was bad all right.

Pulling out the VERY old dictionary my mother gave me....

Evil: 1. Injurious mischief.  2. Morally corrupt, wicked.  3.  Producing or threatening sorrow, distress, or calamity.  4. Anything impairing happiness or welfare or depriving of good.  5. Moral badness.

-Webster's new collegiate dictionary, 1953.

Photo accompanying definition in the 2006 edition:
http://cronus.com/images/tom-delay.jpg

The greatest serial killer of all time.  Vallejo, California.

I don't know why, but I love reading books about these guys and girls.


One of the scariest people ever is....awe man is mind escapes me.  He was known as "Grandpa" or soemthing like that.  He'd lour little boys and girls to him.  Then he'd kill them and eat them.  He as the idea for Hannible Lector.

It's encouraging to meet a good Christan man who has a favorte serial killer.
;D

That was Albert Fish alright.  He swore Grace Budd, the victim who got him caught, died a virgin.
Ted Bundy and Ed Gein were also inspirations for both Hannibal Lecter and Jame "Buffalo Bill" Gumm.  For instance, the scene in S.O.T.L. in wich Buffalo Bill lures the woman into his van by pretending to move a piece of furniture while his arm was in a sling was a favorite trick of Bundy.  He used to lure girls over to his Volkswagon by wearing a sling and feigning difficulty with some task.
Gein is technically a serial killer, as he killed at least three people over a long period of time, but I consider Gein more of a cannibal and a graverobber.  Like Jame (sic.) Gumm in the movie,  Gein skinned the flesh of his victims and made female disguises out of the cured hides.  He also had throw rugs made of human hair, ashtrays made of skulls, and a tray displaying excised and mummified female genitalia.  Tasty, eh?
There was an obscure pop group in the '80s from L.A. to whom I am partial called the Fibonaccis.  They wrote a paen to Ed Gein:

OLD MEAN ED GEIN
Dear Mr. Manson, have you heard from or seen
A man from Wisconsin by the name of Ed Gein?
You helped me discover the Beatles and Stones,
But he turned me on to the beauty of bones!

At fifteen my feelings for you haven't changed,
But Ed Gein has shown me the meaning of strange!
I'm doing a term paper on him for school,
How could he be such a square and so COOOOL?

OLD MEAN ED GEIN!
LIVED ON LONG PIG*
AND TURNIP GREENS!

OLD MEAN ED GEIN!
LOOKS RIGHT THROUGH YA
AND HE SEES YOUR SPLEEN!

You say you've never made love,
Mr. Gein,
Alone on your farm without lights
Or TV
I'd like to peek into
Your candle-lit ROOOOM!

OLD MEAN ED GEIN!
HE PREPARES VENISON
ON CHRISTMAS EVE!

OLD MEAN ED GEIN!
SHE'S HUNG LIKE A DEER
ALL DRESSED AND CLEANED!

You gave me thoughts that I never had,
People are shocked,
Their faces gone mad!
It's a strange new plan,
but I think I understand!

OLD MEAN ED GEIN!
DANCED BY THE MOON
IN THE GIRL OF HIS DREAMS!

OLD MEAN ED GEIN!
HIS SHADOW'S IN CASTLES,
AND HE FEELS LIKE A QUEEN!

Dear Mr. Manson,
Have you heard from or seen
A man from Wisconsin
By the name of Ed Gein?

*Long pig is the name given by certain cannibals to the flesh of man

http://www.geocities.com/philbass_2000/fibonaccis.html

http://www.crimelibrary.com/gein/geinmain.htm

It's encouraging to meet a good Christan man who has a favorte serial killer.
;D

That was Albert Fish alright.  He swore Grace Budd, the victim who got him caught, died a virgin.
Ted Bundy and Ed Gein were also inspirations for both Hannibal Lecter and Jame "Buffalo Bill" Gumm.  For instance, the scene in S.O.T.L. in wich Buffalo Bill lures the woman into his van by pretending to move a piece of furniture while his arm was in a sling was a favorite trick of Bundy.  He used to lure girls over to his Volkswagon by wearing a sling and feigning difficulty with some task.
Gein is technically a serial killer, as he killed at least three people over a long period of time, but I consider Gein more of a cannibal and a graverobber.  Like Jame (sic.) Gumm in the movie,  Gein skinned the flesh of his victims and made female disguises out of the cured hides.  He also had throw rugs made of human hair, ashtrays made of skulls, and a tray displaying excised and mummified female genitalia.  Tasty, eh?
There was an obscure pop group in the '80s from L.A. to whom I am partial called the Fibonaccis.  They wrote a paen to Ed Gein:

OLD MEAN ED GEIN
Dear Mr. Manson, have you heard from or seen
A man from Wisconsin by the name of Ed Gein?
You helped me discover the Beatles and Stones,
But he turned me on to the beauty of bones!

At fifteen my feelings for you haven't changed,
But Ed Gein has shown me the meaning of strange!
I'm doing a term paper on him for school,
How could he be such a square and so COOOOL?

OLD MEAN ED GEIN!
LIVED ON LONG PIG*
AND TURNIP GREENS!

OLD MEAN ED GEIN!
LOOKS RIGHT THROUGH YA
AND HE SEES YOUR SPLEEN!

You say you've never made love,
Mr. Gein,
Alone on your farm without lights
Or TV
I'd like to peek into
Your candle-lit ROOOOM!

OLD MEAN ED GEIN!
HE PREPARES VENISON
ON CHRISTMAS EVE!

OLD MEAN ED GEIN!
SHE'S HUNG LIKE A DEER
ALL DRESSED AND CLEANED!

You gave me thoughts that I never had,
People are shocked,
Their faces gone mad!
It's a strange new plan,
but I think I understand!

OLD MEAN ED GEIN!
DANCED BY THE MOON
IN THE GIRL OF HIS DREAMS!

OLD MEAN ED GEIN!
HIS SHADOW'S IN CASTLES,
AND HE FEELS LIKE A QUEEN!

Dear Mr. Manson,
Have you heard from or seen
A man from Wisconsin
By the name of Ed Gein?

*Long pig is the name given by certain cannibals to the flesh of man

http://www.geocities.com/philbass_2000/fibonaccis.html

http://www.crimelibrary.com/gein/geinmain.htm



Favorite is sort of weird word to use, however, I do have a fascination with these people.  To compare me to anyone, Stephen King would be the best example.

The Texas Chainsaw Massacre script writer Toby Hooper has always said that the Texas Chainsaw Massacre was pretty much all made up, however inspired losely on stories he heard growing up about Ed Gein.

There was a guy in Germany a long time ago who killed over 50 people and sold their meat on the black market.

Recently there was a serial killer in British Columbia who was suspected of killing like 60 women.

I think the major causes of evil are greed, and greed, and greed.  I'm not convinced that sick people, like Ted Bundy et al, are evil, evan though they do evil things.  They act from sickness of mind.  On the other hand, Ken Lay did what I would call evil knowingly maliciously, and without concern for those he knew would be hurt.  Ted Bundy was insane, Ken Lay was evil.  Needless to say, I'm glad Ted Bundy is off the streets, but Ken Kay is still, as I understand it, enjoying his millions of ill-gotten gains while lost of trusting workers are facing pennyless retirements, especially if Lil' Georgie has his way with Social Security.

The greatest serial killer of all time.  Vallejo, California.

I don't know why, but I love reading books about these guys and girls.


I like Jack the Ripper, assuming it was one dude. Mighta been a few, or that weird artist dude. I always envisioned some dude with a badass handlebar mustache.

I love the books too. And it was Albert Fish.

I think the major causes of evil are greed, and greed, and greed.  I'm not convinced that sick people, like Ted Bundy et al, are evil, evan though they do evil things.  They act from sickness of mind.  On the other hand, Ken Lay did what I would call evil knowingly maliciously, and without concern for those he knew would be hurt.  Ted Bundy was insane, Ken Lay was evil.  Needless to say, I'm glad Ted Bundy is off the streets, but Ken Kay is still, as I understand it, enjoying his millions of ill-gotten gains while lost of trusting workers are facing pennyless retirements, especially if Lil' Georgie has his way with Social Security.


I don't believe in evil.  I believe that some people are insane and others are weak people who succumb to their primal instincts.  These people then get labelled as "followers of Satan". 

This doesn't mean I think they should get off the hook, but it does mean that I don't condone hatred.

Oddly enough, I think rude and mean people are more hateable than criminals.  Criminals, while more harmful, are really pitiful, whereas people that are mean and unfriendly get none of my sympathy.  Sometimes people will be both; those are the worst scum on the planet.

I like Jack the Ripper, assuming it was one dude. Mighta been a few, or that weird artist dude. I always envisioned some dude with a badass handlebar mustache.

I love the books too. And it was Albert Fish.


I guess my favorite is The Zodiack because he is the only one that really fits the "hollywood" type of a serial killer.  He's got the character to him. He dressed up in a costume and everything.

I strongly believe it was Arther Leigh Allen....however I have no proof that is wasn't one of the other many many suspects.

There was a guy in Germany a long time ago who killed over 50 people and sold their meat on the black market.

Recently there was a serial killer in British Columbia who was suspected of killing like 60 women.

There are huge numbers of missing people, mostly women, in the wester provences.  There are some really rural stretches of the Trans-Canada Highway!
:o
http://www.crimezzz.net/serialkillers/C/CANADA_HIGHWAY_murders.htm
http://www.crimezzz.net/serialkillers/C/CANADA_PROSTITUTE_murders.htm

There are others, I just don't have the links here.

Ignorance most definitely.