Well what does everyone think. You won't be too surprised to find me on the Darwin/Evolution side fo the argument but I thought this article was interesting and, to me at least, somewhat disturbing
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/4398345.stm

people are entitled to their belief's. my own mother believe's in creationism, i no longer argue with her over that. live and let live.

i believe in evolution (and i'm a christian), the evidence is there but can we be 100% certain that it actually happened that way? thats why it's called the theory of evolution, it's still a theory and many reputable scientists debunk evolution and not just on religious belief's either.

i don't think this idea will ever gain such a huge foothold in the UK, you brits aren't as dogmatic as those in the states are.

Fair point Sputnik. There is some disagreement in the science community as to the raw facts of evolutionary theory and of course there is room for error and change and clarification. I guess, whether its monkeys, lizards or Adam and Eve, the fact remains in my eyes that we have evolved from somewhere and that, with all honesty, I cannot believe that the world is only thousands of years old but instead billions. The history of the physical earth may be compelling but I will allow the exact details of our arrival in the present day some room for interpretation still.

The fault in teaching creationism, to me, is that it espouses the idea of creation in the view of one form
of religion, making it an endorsement of the judeo christian ethic.  If creationism is to be taught then
the views of other religions should also be taught.

God Godess, this again?  Of course evolution isn't an EXACT science, so, since no one understands all the intricacies it remains a set of theories, but no REPUTABLE biologist doubts that evolution is more than a theory.  The further back you go, the scetchier the fossil record becomes, and the rarer the fossils, so we may never know our exact liniage, but we most certainly evolved from another creature. 

As I have pointed out many times before, we use evolution (controlled secection) to make both plants and animals better suited to our needs through selective breeding.  Substitute environmental niches for our needs, and thats natural selection, or evolution.  Nock out all the breeds of dogs between the Chihuahua and the St. Bernard and you probably have 2 seperate spicies.  Let all dogs breed as they see fit and you probably wind up with a "mut" about 2 feet tall, 4 feet long that looks something like a wolf.

Biologists might disagree about how evolution happens, but the reputable ones know that it does.

Creationism and Evolution can go hand in hand.

You don't have to necessarily be one way or the other.

Mysterious ways.

Creationism and Evolution can go hand in hand.

You don't have to necessarily be one way or the other.

Mysterious ways.


I agree, things have to be created before they can evolve.

An Imax film was actually banned, because it was about creation and evolution.  ::)

http://www.religioustolerance.org/ev_news05.htm

Creationism and Evolution can go hand in hand.

You don't have to necessarily be one way or the other.

Mysterious ways.


Only if you are willing to accept the bible as allrgory, and not fact.  It says that God created the world in 7 days.  Who's days?

A man asked God how much a $1,000,000 was worth to him.  God replied "a penny".  And how long was a 1,000,000 years to God, and he relied "a second".  So the man asked God for $1,000,000. God responded "in a sceond".

Only if you are willing to accept the bible as allrgory, and not fact.  It says that God created the world in 7 days.  Who's days?

A man asked God how much a $1,000,000 was worth to him.  God replied "a penny".  And how long was a 1,000,000 years to God, and he relied "a second".  So the man asked God for $1,000,000. God responded "in a sceond".


Who's days is an excellent question.

God is not a man, therefore his days, are not 24 hour man days.

I put nothing beyond or above God, but I don't think his days meant that he created the world in 144 hours, then rested 24 hours after he was done.

So maybe 7 days is more like 7 century's for us, maybe it's not.

However, maybe his 7 days are less, maybe it only took him an hour to do the whole thing, and then again maybe it's not.

Who's days is an excellent question.

God is not a man, therefore his days, are not 24 hour man days.

I put nothing beyond or above God, but I don't think his days meant that he created the world in 144 hours, then rested 24 hours after he was done.

So maybe 7 days is more like 7 century's for us, maybe it's not.

However, maybe his 7 days are less, maybe it only took him an hour to do the whole thing, and then again maybe it's not.


Well, well, some sceptisism.  A healthy sign.  Geologists tell us that the earth is several billion years old, and that life appeared several million years ago.  Maybe, just maybe, God gave us, through evolution, these otherwise useless big brains to figure this stuff out, or was he just playing a nasty trick on us?

Well, well, some sceptisism.  A healthy sign.  Geologists tell us that the earth is several billion years old, and that life appeared several million years ago.  Maybe, just maybe, God gave us, through evolution, these otherwise useless big brains to figure this stuff out, or was he just playing a nasty trick on us?


That's a good question.  I think before it's all said and done, I'll be seeing the big guy, so I'll ask him.

That's a good question.  I think before it's all said and done, I'll be seeing the big guy, so I'll ask him.


Clearly, we will all be dead long before these questions are answered.  I guess I'll see "the big guy" before you.

Clearly, we will all be dead long before these questions are answered.  I guess I'll see "the big guy" before you.



Oh, in that case, you ask him.

Oh, in that case, you ask him.


So you don't think I'll be damned?  When I see him I will certainly ask him, and if he lets me, I'll pass on what I have learned to you.

That's a good question.  I think before it's all said and done, I'll be seeing the big guy, so I'll ask him.


If you are insinuating suicide, then you would not be seeing the big guy, as that is seen as sin.

and even though yyou wouldn't beleive me, I hope you wouldn't do something so stupid.

If you are insinuating suicide, then you would not be seeing the big guy, as that is seen as sin.

and even though yyou wouldn't beleive me, I hope you wouldn't do something so stupid.


That thought never crossed my mind.  Good Lord, I hope you are wrong.  I also would hope that suicide was the farthest thing from his mind.

No, I think he meant that he's destined to go to Heaven...


I hope that this is the case.

No, I think he meant that he's destined to go to Heaven...


Not being a Calvinist, I certainly can't think of anything I have done to warrent going to he11, pugatory maybe, but not he11, evan though I really don't believe in any of that stuff.  My thought is that if God or the Godess didn't want me to be a sceptic, he/she wouldn't have given me such a big, and otherwise useless brain.

Not being a Calvinist, I certainly can't think of anything I have done to warrent going to he11, pugatory maybe, but not he11, evan though I really don't believe in any of that stuff. My thought is that if God or the Godess didn't want me to be a sceptic, he/she wouldn't have given me such a big, and otherwise useless brain.


Bingo.

I have often had the thought that, perhaps, if there is a "God" that he/she/it has really set this all  up as a trick question. Perhaps all of these religions disagreeing with eachother over him/her/it was intentional, and meant to be a smokescreen hiding the real answer. Which is Atheism/Secularism. Humans must work out our problems on our own. Otherwise, what is the point of having free will?

No comments on my little theory? ;D

"What - work our all our own problems - ourselves?" Arghhhh, doomed, I say doomed...

But seriously folks, perhaps if we, ya know, stopped staring into the skies for answers and started taking this whole food, water, air, life, survival of the species thing seriously without having that maniacal glee of certainty that this particularly awful world is just a test before we get to heaven which is where its all really going down. Well maybe, just maybe, we could find a heaven on earth of ouor own making.

Just a theory, don't nail me to any trees or nowt for it, just thought that that was pretty much what all the good books of most of the religions worth talking about in this world were on about anyway.

Astrocat has furrballs *aachh* aachh* .... thats better *purrrrrrrrrrr*

"What - work our all our own problems - ourselves?" Arghhhh, doomed, I say doomed...

But seriously folks, perhaps if we, ya know, stopped staring into the skies for answers and started taking this whole food, water, air, life, survival of the species thing seriously without having that maniacal glee of certainty that this particularly awful world is just a test before we get to heaven which is where its all really going down. Well maybe, just maybe, we could find a heaven on earth of ouor own making.

Just a theory, don't nail me to any trees or nowt for it, just thought that that was pretty much what all the good books of most of the religions worth talking about in this world were on about anyway.

Astrocat has furrballs *aachh* aachh* .... thats better *purrrrrrrrrrr*



Well said, old man. :D

I hope you wouldn't do something so stupid.


I don't think suicide is stupid. Not everyone who commits suicide is upset because of a breakup or something trivial like that. If the circumstances which would drive a person to suicide cannot be dubbed stupid, then how can the act itself be judged so? I don't think it's fair to label suicide as generally selfish and cowardly... Who is more selfish? A person who wants to die and kills himself, or the people around him who want to force him to be alive when he doesn't want to be, only to spare their own feelings?

My dear cousin, Gerald, shot himself two years ago. I was devastated because we were very close, but I also wasn't kidding myself. I knew him well. I knew that if he didn't die by some kind of disease or accident, he would commit suicide. He tried several times between the ages 16 and 21 (when he succeeded). He was consumed by our existential predicament, he was trapped in it - and for anyone who recognises our predicament, suicide is an attractive option for at least a while. I respected his decision even though it saddened me deeply. How can I blame him for not making it all the way to a natural death? He was perpetually unhappy.

I don't think suicide is stupid. Not everyone who commits suicide is upset because of a breakup or something trivial like that. If the circumstances which would drive a person to suicide cannot be dubbed stupid, then how can the act itself be judged so? I don't think it's fair to label suicide as generally selfish and cowardly... Who is more selfish? A person who wants to die and kills himself, or the people around him who want to force him to be alive when he doesn't want to be, only to spare their own feelings?

My dear cousin, Gerald, shot himself two years ago. I was devastated because we were very close, but I also wasn't kidding myself. I knew him well. I knew that if he didn't die by some kind of disease or accident, he would commit suicide. He tried several times between the ages 16 and 21 (when he succeeded). He was consumed by our existential predicament, he was trapped in it - and for anyone who recognises our predicament, suicide is an attractive option for at least a while. I respected his decision even though it saddened me deeply. How can I blame him for not making it all the way to a natural death? He was perpetually unhappy.


I understand what you are saying.

If others aren't depending on you(like if you are a parent), then I don't see how suicide makes you a coward if you are in that type of spot.

It sounds like your cousin had a tough time. He made the biggest decision anyone can possibly make, and carried it out. I'm sad to hear it had to come to that point, but at least hes not in pain anymore.

Do you see what i am saying?

Absolutely. He had no one depending on him. He was married for like four months to some flat out bitch who treated him poorly anyway. He had no children. He left quite a sad family behind, but that's just something we will have to deal with. He couldn't be held responsible for our feelings. He stuck around as long as he could.