Breaking on CNN and Fox News.

God rest her soul.

Rest in Peace Terri

http://sympaticomsn.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1112278242558_9?hub=topstories

RIP Terri  :\'(

http://images.usatoday.com/news/_photos/2005/03/29/cartoon-inside.jpg

Hopefully Terri can rest in peace, and we can say goodbye to all of the political grandstanding by the idiot Republicans, who were wrong for the right reasons, and the idiot Democrats, who were right for the wrong reasosns.

Hopefully Terri can rest in peace, and we can say goodbye to all of the political grandstanding by the idiot Republicans, who were wrong for the right reasons, and the idiot Democrats, who were right for the wrong reasosns.


Oh PLEASE!

This is hardly a "Republican Vs. Democrat" issue.  We have had a LOT of Democrats come and say this is wrong, and have had some Republicans say this is right.

How about this simply being a human issue?  Or does partasin politics have to be an issue for everything?

To me, this is a very personal issue, and no matter what side you stand on it, the word "idiot" should never come into play.  To me, this is not a "right or wrong" issue, simple a human issue.  And unless you have had to make such a decision personally, please be careful who you call an "idiot".

Oh PLEASE!

This is hardly a "Republican Vs. Democrat" issue.  We have had a LOT of Democrats come and say this is wrong, and have had some Republicans say this is right.

How about this simply being a human issue?  Or does partasin politics have to be an issue for everything?

To me, this is a very personal issue, and no matter what side you stand on it, the word "idiot" should never come into play.  To me, this is not a "right or wrong" issue, simple a human issue.  And unless you have had to make such a decision personally, please be careful who you call an "idiot".


yes this is a human issue but politics did come into here..come on the PRESIDENT for crying out loud? it was nobodies business it happens to poor people everyday and we dont get to hear about it...but I do say its sad and I'm glad she died its sad toknow that people suffer its just like animals who suffer sometimes so you either put them to sleep themselves or have somone else do it, thats what they should have done to her is shoot her (with a needle...) and give a leathal injection instead of being cruel and letting her starve to death

RIP Terri

Oh PLEASE!

This is hardly a "Republican Vs. Democrat" issue.  We have had a LOT of Democrats come and say this is wrong, and have had some Republicans say this is right.

How about this simply being a human issue?  Or does partasin politics have to be an issue for everything?

To me, this is a very personal issue, and no matter what side you stand on it, the word "idiot" should never come into play.  To me, this is not a "right or wrong" issue, simple a human issue.  And unless you have had to make such a decision personally, please be careful who you call an "idiot".


yes, the Republicans didn't push bills through Congress in a rush to the President's office.  The Florida state Republicans didn't try to adopt Terri or kidnap her from the hospital.  Those were all Democrats.  How many Repulicans opposed this? I bet you can count them without reaching double digits.

The entire event has been staged to make an elaborate distraction from all the problems in the current administration. Jeff Gannon's easy press pass, Tom Delay's ethics violations, Bush's lack of support for private investment accounts, a huge oil spill in Alaska despite assurances that future drilling in ANWAR won't harm the environment.  Notice those topics in the nightly news?  They're not ancient history, they're going on right now.  What do we get to hear?  Terri Schiavo and Michael Jackson. 

If there was ANY shred of truth to what her father said about her communicating with them, I feel horrible, but now that's a mute point. Rest In Peace, Terri...and may "Karma" get your ex, IF he's guilty of anything ;)

Oh PLEASE!

This is hardly a "Republican Vs. Democrat" issue.  We have had a LOT of Democrats come and say this is wrong, and have had some Republicans say this is right.

How about this simply being a human issue?  Or does partasin politics have to be an issue for everything?

To me, this is a very personal issue, and no matter what side you stand on it, the word "idiot" should never come into play.  To me, this is not a "right or wrong" issue, simple a human issue.  And unless you have had to make such a decision personally, please be careful who you call an "idiot".

As far as I'm concerned it was a personal issue--a family issue for the Schiavos and the Schindlers--and not the rest of the country's business.
I believe Mrs. Schiavo is in a better place now.  

At least the only Hollywood activist kook to open his mouth about it was Mel Gibson!

You ask why must it be "political" and I ask the same question.  The answer is because the right-wing made it political as an exercise of their zealous agenda.  More cynically, the Schiavo-Schindler court battle was a wonderful distraction from more important issues of the day.

A death that received no substantial discussion on the major news networks was that of George F. Kennan. Kennan was the second highest American diplomat to Moscow who proposed the tenets of Cold War foreign policy toward the Communist world, and was considered father of the Marshall Plan.  True, Kennan died on March 17th, a month after his 101st birthday, and was a historical figure rather than a current events figure.  However, those who forget history are doomed to repeat it.  For better and for worse, Kennan's legacy is very much with us today.  

I believe the media had a responsibility to the public interest to put forth a thorough retrospective of Kennan's political career and what it meant then, and what it means now.

But noooooo!!!! (as the great John Belushi used to say) It was all Schiavo Schiavo Schiavo morning, noon, and night with Tom DeLay, Randall Terry, and Sean Hannity beating their idiotic war drums of hypocritical cretinism!
>:( ::)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A45242-2005Mar17.html

yes, the Republicans didn't push bills through Congress in a rush to the President's office.  The Florida state Republicans didn't try to adopt Terri or kidnap her from the hospital.  Those were all Democrats.  How many Repulicans opposed this? I bet you can count them without reaching double digits.

The entire event has been staged to make an elaborate distraction from all the problems in the current administration. Jeff Gannon's easy press pass, Tom Delay's ethics violations, Bush's lack of support for private investment accounts, a huge oil spill in Alaska despite assurances that future drilling in ANWAR won't harm the environment.  Notice those topics in the nightly news?  They're not ancient history, they're going on right now.  What do we get to hear?  Terri Schiavo and Michael Jackson. 

Thanks, Chucky, great points!

RnR Fan wrote
If there was ANY shred of truth to what her father said about her communicating with them, I feel horrible, but now that's a mute point. Rest In Peace, Terri...and may "Karma" get your ex, IF he's guilty of anything
I think that can be explained as wishful thinking and delusion on the part of her loved ones, and outright lying on the part of that quack doctor and the whoring lawyer.
::)

May she rest in peace and may the media and the government leave that family alone so they can also have some peace.





Cat

We finally agree on something, Cat. 8)

May she rest in peace and may the media and the government leave that family alone so they can also have some peace.





Cat

RIP Terri Shiavo :\'(

I am going to toss in a few final thoughts before I fade away again.

I see all kinds of people listed in here as to who to blame.  A lot seem to think Bush is to blame.  Others see other people to blame.  To me, there is only one cause to blame.  And that is the ultimate reason why this country had to go through the last month.

I know that I have not said yet who is to blame for the death of Mrs. Schiavo.  And I am sure that some in here will blast me for who I see as to where the blame lies.  But never the less, here it is.  The 3 people who I blame for her death are Terri Schiavo, and her parents.

This is a perfect example of a dysfunctional family living in denial.  Terri had an eating disorder, bulimia.  During High School, she weighed 200 pounds.  Yet in a short amount of time, she lost 65 pounds.  Since she graduated in 1982, this makes it over 20 years ago that this started.

Now we step forward 8 years.  It is now 1990.  Terri had been having increasing health problems.  Her friends and husband noticed her erratic eating habits.  One of her friends even admited that she would always vomit in the restroom after eating out.  Yet her parents thought there was nothing wrong with her.

A few months before her heart attack, she went to the doctor stating that her periods had stopped.  When asked by the doctor if she was having any problems eating, she replied "no".    It was shortly after that that Terri had her heart attack, caused by a potassium imbalance.  For those that remember Karen Carpenter, it is almost the same cause as her fatal heart attack.

Because of the loss of blood to her brain, she suffered irreversable brain damage.  From that moment on, it was accepted that she would likely never recover.  In fact, the damage she suffered was similar to that of the birth defect Anencephaly, which is always fatal.

Now comes the parents.  Richard Schiavo stated that Terri had made her wished known to him that she did not want to live in this kind of condition.  However, they ignored this request and demanded that she be kept alive.  They insisted that she would recover, in complete denial of the facts.

Of course, this is not the first (nor the last) case of denial by her parents.  During the lawsuits that followed, they tried to blame Richard somehow as being the cause of her condition.  Her father vocally denied that she had any form of eating disorder.  Even though friends and doctors had been commenting on her emaciated condition for years, her father thought nothing was wrong with his daughter.

Now we fast forward 15 years.  Terri has had almost no improvement in her condition.  She is in a permanent vegatative state, and her parents still want her to live.  Ironically, this is the exact opposite of the case of Karen Ann Quinlan.

In 1975, Miss Quinlan suffered brain damage after a drug overdose at a party.  After many years, her parents won the right to have her taken off of a respirator.  This is the case that was the basis for most of our current "right to life" laws.  In this case however, her parents were willing to let her go, rather then have her live out her life in a vegatative state.

***

Now before anybody here starts to call me a cruel monster, let me set the record straight.  I myself have been through this.

In 1998, my fiancee contracted viral pneumonia.  After 2 days in the hospital, her blood-oxygen dropped to below 80%.  The decision was made to put her on a respirator.  Over the next several days, she developed a staph infection, and her oxygen rate fell even more.  It became obvious that she was suffering brain damage, and we started to try and decide what to do.  While she had no living will, her parents and I all knew her wishes in this event.

After 3 days on the respirator, Bekkie was brain dead.  The decision was made to remove it, and she died, having never regained consciousness.

That was 7 years ago, and I still suffer from depression.  I have not dated, and can't concieve of ever dating somebody again.  But I know that the right decision was made.  Even though her body might still be alive today if she were kept living, Bekkie would still be gone.

***

Now comes the ultimate irony.  Terri suffered from bulomia.  And here she is 15 years after her near fatal heart attack, dead from starvation.  She may have been alive, but Terri herself has been gone for 15 years.

Was it right to let her die?  I believe it was.  But the WAY she died is a crime.  When she got married, her husband became the final word in her medical care.  Instead of following his wishes (which he claimed were her wishes as well), they drug him and their daughter through a 15 year court battle.

To me, it was a crime to remove her feeding tube.  The humane thing to do would have been to give her a shot of potassium, and allow a second heart attack to end her life.  This would have been merciful.  Instead, she had to suffer for almost 2 weeks.  We do not even treat convicted murderers this way.

***

Finally, this is in no way a kind of "political ploy" by anybody.  In order for this to be the case, you have to go back 15 years.  I remember first hearing of her case about 5 years ago.  That was during the Clinton Administration.  I thought then (and still do) that her parents should simply let her go.  If that had happened, Terri would have died peacefully 5 years ago, and none of this media circus would have happened.

Of course, then you might have had Right WIng kooks screaming it was a Clinton Conspiracy, instead of Left Wing Kooks claiming it is a Bush conspiracy.


http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2005-02-25-schiavo-eating-disorder_x.htm
http://www.who2.com/karenannquinlan.html

What if she had lived? :(

I know that I have not said yet who is to blame for the death of Mrs. Schiavo.  And I am sure that some in here will blast me for who I see as to where the blame lies.  But never the less, here it is.  The 3 people who I blame for her death are Terri Schiavo, and her parents.


I agree completely. This is the reason that I haven't participated in any Schiavo-related discussion on the boards because I thought the entire ordeal was ridiculous, and by taking part in it, I myself would have been part of the problem. Now that it's over I can safely say that this was indeed the fault of Schiavo, her parents, AND Schindler (a husband should take better care of his wife while she's still living with bulimia, not after she turns into a vegetable).

Well, to respond to the thread, I wish Terri a peaceful sleep in the arms of the dragon and the Goddess.  I wish her parants peace, which for them must be difficult.

There is an old Zen parable.  A rich man comes to a xen monk for a prayer.  Ok, here it is.  May your grandfather die, may your father die, may you die, and then, may your son die, and his son mourn him."  The rich man is agast.  "How dare you offer me a prayer for death?"  "Not death" replies the monk. but the order of death, which will take  us all.  It is the order that matters, once we understand the inevidibility."

I, having 4 kids and 2 grandkids, cannot imagine being in their situation, but I would hope that I, like Tom DeLay (not to get political, but I couldn't resit) be willing to let a loved one go, no matter how painful to me. I can't remember the verse, but in Eccleasiastics, if I'm not mistaken, it says "there is a time fir everything..."  And that means "a time for death".  Sad, but true.

I am going to toss in a few final thoughts before I fade away again.

I see all kinds of people listed in here as to who to blame.  A lot seem to think Bush is to blame.  Others see other people to blame.  To me, there is only one cause to blame.  And that is the ultimate reason why this country had to go through the last month.

I know that I have not said yet who is to blame for the death of Mrs. Schiavo.  And I am sure that some in here will blast me for who I see as to where the blame lies.  But never the less, here it is.  The 3 people who I blame for her death are Terri Schiavo, and her parents.

This is a perfect example of a dysfunctional family living in denial.  Terri had an eating disorder, bulimia.  During High School, she weighed 200 pounds.  Yet in a short amount of time, she lost 65 pounds.  Since she graduated in 1982, this makes it over 20 years ago that this started.

Now we step forward 8 years.  It is now 1990.  Terri had been having increasing health problems.  Her friends and husband noticed her erratic eating habits.  One of her friends even admited that she would always vomit in the restroom after eating out.  Yet her parents thought there was nothing wrong with her.

A few months before her heart attack, she went to the doctor stating that her periods had stopped.  When asked by the doctor if she was having any problems eating, she replied "no".    It was shortly after that that Terri had her heart attack, caused by a potassium imbalance.  For those that remember Karen Carpenter, it is almost the same cause as her fatal heart attack.

Because of the loss of blood to her brain, she suffered irreversable brain damage.  From that moment on, it was accepted that she would likely never recover.  In fact, the damage she suffered was similar to that of the birth defect Anencephaly, which is always fatal.

Now comes the parents.  Richard Schiavo stated that Terri had made her wished known to him that she did not want to live in this kind of condition.  However, they ignored this request and demanded that she be kept alive.  They insisted that she would recover, in complete denial of the facts.

Of course, this is not the first (nor the last) case of denial by her parents.  During the lawsuits that followed, they tried to blame Richard somehow as being the cause of her condition.  Her father vocally denied that she had any form of eating disorder.  Even though friends and doctors had been commenting on her emaciated condition for years, her father thought nothing was wrong with his daughter.

Now we fast forward 15 years.  Terri has had almost no improvement in her condition.  She is in a permanent vegatative state, and her parents still want her to live.  Ironically, this is the exact opposite of the case of Karen Ann Quinlan.

In 1975, Miss Quinlan suffered brain damage after a drug overdose at a party.  After many years, her parents won the right to have her taken off of a respirator.  This is the case that was the basis for most of our current "right to life" laws.  In this case however, her parents were willing to let her go, rather then have her live out her life in a vegatative state.

***

Now before anybody here starts to call me a cruel monster, let me set the record straight.  I myself have been through this.

In 1998, my fiancee contracted viral pneumonia.  After 2 days in the hospital, her blood-oxygen dropped to below 80%.  The decision was made to put her on a respirator.  Over the next several days, she developed a staph infection, and her oxygen rate fell even more.  It became obvious that she was suffering brain damage, and we started to try and decide what to do.  While she had no living will, her parents and I all knew her wishes in this event.

After 3 days on the respirator, Bekkie was brain dead.  The decision was made to remove it, and she died, having never regained consciousness.

That was 7 years ago, and I still suffer from depression.  I have not dated, and can't concieve of ever dating somebody again.  But I know that the right decision was made.  Even though her body might still be alive today if she were kept living, Bekkie would still be gone.

***

Now comes the ultimate irony.  Terri suffered from bulomia.  And here she is 15 years after her near fatal heart attack, dead from starvation.  She may have been alive, but Terri herself has been gone for 15 years.

Was it right to let her die?  I believe it was.  But the WAY she died is a crime.  When she got married, her husband became the final word in her medical care.  Instead of following his wishes (which he claimed were her wishes as well), they drug him and their daughter through a 15 year court battle.

To me, it was a crime to remove her feeding tube.  The humane thing to do would have been to give her a shot of potassium, and allow a second heart attack to end her life.  This would have been merciful.  Instead, she had to suffer for almost 2 weeks.  We do not even treat convicted murderers this way.

***

Finally, this is in no way a kind of "political ploy" by anybody.  In order for this to be the case, you have to go back 15 years.  I remember first hearing of her case about 5 years ago.  That was during the Clinton Administration.  I thought then (and still do) that her parents should simply let her go.  If that had happened, Terri would have died peacefully 5 years ago, and none of this media circus would have happened.

Of course, then you might have had Right WIng kooks screaming it was a Clinton Conspiracy, instead of Left Wing Kooks claiming it is a Bush conspiracy.


http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2005-02-25-schiavo-eating-disorder_x.htm
http://www.who2.com/karenannquinlan.html




http://users.pandora.be/eforum/emoticons4u/happy/1074.gif




Cat

My last respects and comments too..

Ask 'WHO OWNS TERRI?'

The courts may have HAD to listen to her newly found info..and apparently they wouldn't
I think they were supposed to...so any complaints, talk with them...

Her husband? WOW , nice guy..running off with another woman while still legally
married...let's remember him for that as well.

The nurse affidavit everyone has been referencing online, SORRY..She's a kook..Terri's family wouldn't even let her testify when needed..she also said everyone from the family to the police and hospital were conspiring... :D.

Hubby gets no money that's been spent on legalities- or he doesn't have enough to make it a reason to continue fighting...then again in the boondocks we have people dating their own family..as well as MR.WOOD-Y ALLEN...

Let it go..the shows over..get back to the national border protectin'! :-\\

May she rest in peace and may the media and the government leave that family alone so they can also have some peace.





Cat

I agree as well. This is very sad news indeed. :\'( It was the first thing I heard this morning.

Mushroom--

My heart really does go out to you for the loss you have suffered.  I set aside political differences when it comes to basic matters of the family and the heart.  We're all human and we all feel the same anguish when losing a loved one.
I am fortunate enough never to have lost a loved one to accident or homicide.  I did lose an ex-girlfriend to suicide.  She suffered from bipolar disorder and nobody really knows what happened because nobody noticed any signs of distress.  She just disappeared from a ferry boat in Puget Sound.  Her remains were never recovered.  We doubt it was accidental or foul play because her condition made her very prone to suicidality.  I hadn't seen her in years, but she was the love of my life until her mental illness forced us apart.
A very close call came in 1982 when I nearly lost my mother to a brain hemorrhage.  She was in a coma for three days.  I ws only 12 and it was very traumatic.  She was in the hospital for weeks and home-bound for months.  She gradually made a full recovery.  
I have an idea, but not the experience, of how helpless one must feel to see one's fiance's condition deteriorating and not be able to do anything about it.  Your long-term depression is quite understandable, but I hope you are able to make your way back again.

Jeffrey Feiger, the lawyer who defended Dr. Kevorkian, advocated mercy killing in the event of inevitable death.  One can argue for days about the ethics of euthenasia.  In Schiavo's case, I would have no problem with it.  Those who believe she would recover believe in supernatural interventions.  Doctors must practice medicine on the principles of science, not spiritual faith.

I think it is quite unlikely that Schiavo could consciously feel the suffering caused by the dehydration.  Dying of thirst is hell at the normal level of human sentience.  However, physical evidence shows Schiavo had reflexive reactions to stimuli, but not the consciousness required to interpret the signals as pain.  The irresponsible right-wing media exploited the idea of Schiavo dying an agonizing death in order to rally a politically divisive hysteria.  If those media hacks really believed Schiavo was suffering the way you are I would suffer under those conditions, they are IDIOTS!

My thoughts are with both families at this difficult time. I hope they can resolve their differences because I'm sure that's what Terri would have wanted. I really felt bad for Terri and her family, it must be very difficult to go through all of this, but I think she's in a better place right now, and won't have to suffer anymore, nor will she have to be a GOP political toy anymore.

RIP Terri Schiavo

May she rest in peace...and may her family finally move on and be able to grieve privately. 

This whole thing was a slap in the face to people who DO have the written directives....IMNSHO....Hey, guess what!  I dont want to live like that...but if my family wants me to remain that way...I guess my final wishes dont mean squat if they can get enough political powers to back them.

Its a shame.  Terri should have been allowed dignity...and peace...instead..she became a poster child for politicians abililty to stick their noses in private matters.

Well, I have to say that my view on euthanasia is that it's only acceptable when a patient explicitly requests it. And in instances where patients are incapable of expressing themselves because they're incapacitated or unconscious, that should mean that their wishes have specifically been written down in a living will. I know that in a vast number of cases, a patient might not have a living will prepared, but I feel that if there's any doubt, the law should err on the side of life. It shouldn't be left to someone else to decide whether a person's quality of life merits that person's life being allowed to continue or not.

I also disagree that euthanasia is a private matter for family members that the government should stay out of. The government should definitely have an active role to play in protecting the lives of its citizens. While there might have been a great deal of unnecessary grandstanding by all sides in this particular case, including by the media and the general public, I don't see anything wrong with state and federal legislators having wanted to get involved.

I should say, though, that I don't judge anyone who has had to make this kind of decision. It's an extremely difficult position for a person to be in, and I'm sure everyone did what they thought was best for their loved ones. I've never experienced what it's like to lose someone who was really close to me, and my heart goes out to everyone who has.

Her husband? WOW , nice guy..running off with another woman while still legally
married...let's remember him for that as well.


Yes, he was married to Terri up to the moment of her death.  But for heavens sake, she was a vegitable!  Is it reasonable for him to "wait for her to recover"?  Unlike her parents, he accepted reality and moved on with his life.

One side note as to how controlling her parents are, I read articles today stating that they filed in her name for a divorce!  It was not bad enough that they drug her husband through 15 years of hell, now they are trying to remove her from his life.

This divorce pettition states that it is requested, even if she dies first!  That means that there is still a chance it will be granted.

We all go through grief differently.  To me, waiting 1½ years to start dating again is not disrespectfull.  After all, Terri was in all respects already dead.  Her body just did not know enough to let go.  And it is hardly the same as Mark Peterson, who had an affair while still married.

In closing, I am sure that somebody will throw out the claims of her "fractures".  A few years ago, her parents tried to claim that he was abusing her because of those fractures.  Don't forget, this was a woman that suffered from bulomia!  Do a little research, and people that suffer with bulomia often suffer similar symptoms to osteoperosis.  This is because of the lack of calcium.

http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/030105/met_18094997.shtml

Yes, he was married to Terri up to the moment of her death.  But for heavens sake, she was a vegitable!  Is it reasonable for him to "wait for her to recover"?  Unlike her parents, he accepted reality and moved on with his life.

One side note as to how controlling her parents are, I read articles today stating that they filed in her name for a divorce!  It was not bad enough that they drug her husband through 15 years of hell, now they are trying to remove her from his life.

This divorce pettition states that it is requested, even if she dies first!  That means that there is still a chance it will be granted.

We all go through grief differently.  To me, waiting 1½ years to start dating again is not disrespectfull.  After all, Terri was in all respects already dead.  Her body just did not know enough to let go.  And it is hardly the same as Mark Peterson, who had an affair while still married.

In closing, I am sure that somebody will throw out the claims of her "fractures".  A few years ago, her parents tried to claim that he was abusing her because of those fractures.  Don't forget, this was a woman that suffered from bulomia!  Do a little research, and people that suffer with bulomia often suffer similar symptoms to osteoperosis.  This is because of the lack of calcium.

http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/030105/met_18094997.shtmlI agree.He is the one who decided to face reality.Her parents weren't.I don't even think her death was a bifg deal because her brain died 15 years ago--she hasn't been here for a very long time.Finally she can rest in peace.

Go in peace, Terri.

No matter what political stance any one takes the bottom line is the loss of any human life is sad.