Scott Peterson gets the death penalty finalized....oh life in prison is soooo much more of a sentnce..


Sor-ree....if it is soooo terrible to be locked up for your whole life in prison compared to the death penalty....why do MOST of the prisoners fight and use every appeal they can get to be kept ALIVE!!??

don't believe the reteric. >:(

They're both pretty terrible and i don't think either should be an option unless someone is proven beyong a doubt to be too dangerous to ever be set free and has no intention to reform. And i don't think the death penalty is ever appropriate... it's an act of vengeance and vengeance has been one of the most detrimental concepts in the history of humanity.

The Justice system doesn't operate on the system of doling out the harshest punishment possible. It is about preventing harm to people(if you boil it down to it's most basic purpose). Keep murderers and rapists in prison and away from society like they belong, instead of making drug users do more time.

What logical justification is there for the death penalty? The idea of an "Eye for an eye" is null and void because the rule of law doesn't operate on a tit-for-tat law of the jungle basis.

To remove them from society to prevent further harm? There is a way to do that without using state murder. We DO build prisons for other reasons than locking up people involved in the using, buying, and selling of marijuana, don't we?

Because it will make the victim's family feel better? Their feelings do not matter in the justice system. It doesn't serve the purpose of therapy for them OR the general public. Its there to protect society at large.

So really? Why is the death penalty a positive? Don't say costs-it is more expensive to keep someone on death row than in the general population. And that cost cannot be remedied by executing them immediately, because of the possibility of wrongful convictions that are later overturned with the discovery of new evidence. And everyone-even someone convicted of murder(actually especially someone convicted of murder, a crime of that seriousness will keep them locked up the rest of their lives!), has the right to appeal. You can't do that if you just take someone out and execute them immediately.

People who support the death penalty and say things along the lines of "just take them out and shoot 'em" are simplistic and don't have a understanding of how the justice system works, or what purpose it actually serves. They are precisely the reason why our Founding Fathers created a Republic and not a Democracy. Because in a Republic, elected officials are to serve in the best interests of the COUNTRY at large. In a mob rule democracy, the willy nilly public can do whatever they want. Democracy is tyranny, rather than the tyranny of one as in a dictatorship, it is the tyranny of a majority. Republics safe guard the common good, not the ridiculous impulses of the ignorant.

"A republic, if you can keep it"-Benjamin Franklin

Many don't fear life in prison as we know it.  They do, however, fear death.

Like I've said before, make our prisons become PRISONS and not country clubs, and maybe the idea of life in prison WOULD deter killers and the death penalty would no longer be necessary.

I think death is more scary but overall the prisoners are more miserable in prison.  Lifers have no spiritual or material wealth left.  They're only alive in the sense that they can breathe and (more or less) think.  They're pretty much dead.

I think death sentence is generally better than life without parole if the criminal shows no sign of remorse.  I think lifers should be able to contribute to society in some way or another.  I hate the thought of a perp who was remorseful and wanted to better themselves but were forced to die an a**hole. 

No refutes huh?

Sor-ree....if it is soooo terrible to be locked up for your whole life in prison compared to the death penalty....why do MOST of the prisoners fight and use every appeal they can get to be kept ALIVE!!??

don't believe the reteric. >:(


Probably the same reason why MOST people sentenced to life in prison will have several appeals. Now, how about explaining why MOST of the people on death row are also minorities...

And don't worry... the rhetoric has little effect on me. How about you? Succumb to any rhetoric lately? You know -that cowboy, 'kill 'em all', tough guy crap... That has even less an effect on me... unless you count disgust.

Like I've said before, make our prisons become PRISONS and not country clubs, and maybe the idea of life in prison WOULD deter killers and the death penalty would no longer be necessary.

Nope.  don't matter how bad you make prisons, people do the crime because the thought of spending any time at all in prison doesn't even cross their mind.

Also, bear in mind that the majority of people in prison will be out some day: if you completely dehumanize them when they're inside, you can't expect them to reintegrate with society once they come out again.  Inhumane prisons simply turn out sociopaths who'll do more and worse crime once they're out again.  I'm not saying that we should make our prisons happy, joyful places, but I do know that they ain't no holiday resorts: I've been inside more than twenty now, so I do have some idea of what I'm talking about.

To my mind, this debate has been frames in the wrong terms.  Start with the fact that it usually takes decades before the death penalty is actualy carried out.  I could very well be dead before Scott gets gased, as old as I am (maybe not, I enjoy being with Cat to much, I still have my health and can still dance in "cupids groves", but that's another story).  Certainbly if I got life without parole that could very well change my frame of mind though.

What disturbs me is what the death penalty says about us as a people.  Forget the perp.  Aren't we suppose to be civilized people who value human life (evan a despicable human life)?  Another issues, raised by McDonald, is, why is it that those without the capital get the punishment (minorities, and the poor in general)?  And how about all those who have been convicted and condemned, but later were proven innocent by DNA or other means (sorry Mrs Jones, I know we burned your son yesterday, but we will exhonorate him postumously based on new evidance.  Gee, sorry 'bout that!)?  And for you religious folks, isn't there something in scripture about "vengance is mine saith the Lord"?  Capital punishment can only be regarded as vengance, IMHO, so why is it not blasphomy?  And isn't a violation of "Thou shalt not kill"?

Sorry, but from a secular humanist or a religious point of view I can't see a justification for the death penalty.

NOT IN MY NAME

To my mind, this debate has been frames in the wrong terms.  Start with the fact that it usually takes decades before the death penalty is actualy carried out.  I could very well be dead before Scott gets gased, as old as I am (maybe not, I enjoy being with Cat to much, I still have my health and can still dance in "cupids groves", but that's another story).  Certainbly if I got life without parole that could very well change my frame of mind though.

What disturbs me is what the death penalty says about us as a people.  Forget the perp.  Aren't we suppose to be civilized people who value human life (evan a despicable human life)?  Another issues, raised by McDonald, is, why is it that those without the capital get the punishment (minorities, and the poor in general)?  And how about all those who have been convicted and condemned, but later were proven innocent by DNA or other means (sorry Mrs Jones, I know we burned your son yesterday, but we will exhonorate him postumously based on new evidance.  Gee, sorry 'bout that!)?  And for you religious folks, isn't there something in scripture about "vengance is mine saith the Lord"?  Capital punishment can only be regarded as vengance, IMHO, so why is it not blasphomy?  And isn't a violation of "Thou shalt not kill"?

Sorry, but from a secular humanist or a religious point of view I can't see a justification for the death penalty.

NOT IN MY NAME


To me it's not the death penalty itself that bothers me, it's the sadistic attitude that goes along with it.  I have no problem with something like lethal injection or even beheading as long as the criminal is not willing to better himself and die a more dignified person in jail. 

I do, however, despise torture.  It doesn't satisfy me and only does bad to us all.

Quite a vast number of views now....
does ANYONE know ANYONE who was actually INNOCENT and was killed on death row??

Any comments on how we let the convicts work out to get /keep their big 'ol muscles?
Maybe we wouldn't have a need for armed guards in the prisons to watch over those big guys??

Nope.  don't matter how bad you make prisons, people do the crime because the thought of spending any time at all in prison doesn't even cross their mind.

Also, bear in mind that the majority of people in prison will be out some day: if you completely dehumanize them when they're inside, you can't expect them to reintegrate with society once they come out again.  Inhumane prisons simply turn out sociopaths who'll do more and worse crime once they're out again.  I'm not saying that we should make our prisons happy, joyful places, but I do know that they ain't no holiday resorts: I've been inside more than twenty now, so I do have some idea of what I'm talking about.


To me, the punishment is not about vengeance, it is about prevention.  What type of punishment would deter someone from committing a crime?  I tend to speed sometimes on the freeway.  I know that all I will get if I am pulled over is a ticket.  If I knew I could also lose my license on the first offense, have my car impounded and go to jail, I probably would watch my speedometer much more carefully.

To me, the punishment is not about vengeance, it is about prevention.  What type of punishment would deter someone from committing a crime?   I tend to speed sometimes on the freeway.  I know that all I will get if I am pulled over is a ticket.   If I knew I could also lose my license on the first offense, have my car impounded and go to jail, I probably would watch my speedometer much more carefully.


I understand your logic and agree with it, but you must remember that you're not a habitual criminal (as far as I know) and murderers, molestors, and rapists generally are.  You have a mind, they don't.  They don't understand punishment. 

But I'm no psychologist.  That's just my opinion.

To me, the punishment is not about vengeance, it is about prevention. What type of punishment would deter someone from committing a crime? I tend to speed sometimes on the freeway. I know that all I will get if I am pulled over is a ticket. If I knew I could also lose my license on the first offense, have my car impounded and go to jail, I probably would watch my speedometer much more carefully.

Harsher sentencing doesn't work for prevention: most crime is committed by people who assume they're not going to get caught, so it doesn't matter to them how harsh the penalty is, 'cause they think that it's not going to apply to *them*.

By your own argument, once you've caught and convicted someone, the best prevention method is to make sure they don't commit another crime once they're let out (seeing as the vast majority of crimes do not merit the death penalty) - which goes back to my point about not dehumanizing inmates.


Quite a vast number of views now....
does ANYONE know ANYONE who was actually INNOCENT and was killed on death row??

I don't... but Harry Fogle, Chief Judge of VI Judicial Circuit, Florida had this to say:
In my own experience, I know of four persons convicted of first-degree murder and sentenced to death, who were later found to be innocent . . . long after the appellate process had been exhausted

I understand your logic and agree with it, but you must remember that you're not a habitual criminal (as far as I know) and murderers, molestors, and rapists generally are.  You have a mind, they don't.  They don't understand punishment.   

But I'm no psychologist.  That's just my opinion.


You're right, I'm NOT a habitual criminal. 

A "habitual" criminal is someone who is released when they probably shouldn't have been.

Remember though, nobody is born a habitual criminal... they have to START somewhere... and this is when the "deterrence" of a punishment is most important...

You're right, I'm NOT a habitual criminal. 

A "habitual" criminal is someone who is released when they probably shouldn't have been.

Remember though, nobody is born a habitual criminal... they have to START somewhere... and this is when the "deterrence" of a punishment is most important...


True, but I think most habitual criminals had some seed to begin with, that is they were always f*ed up to some extent.  I personally think it's a disease.  But one can resist it, it's just harder for the criminal type.

It's grimly amusing to see murderers fight for their lives, especially psychos like Manson.  Charles Manson used to coach his "Family" on the transitory nature of life and the beautiful release of death.  But, oh boy, when his sorry azz was on the pan back in 1970, he sure fought like the devil to save his own life!
:P

The reason Manson and his creep-o followers are still alive is their death sentences were all communited to life in prison when capital punishment was banned by the Supreme Court in 1972.

Not that I think they should have been executed, as I said umpteen times, I don't believe in capital punishment.

The reason death row inmates fight so hard for their lives is because of basic survival instinct.  This is the same instinct that stops 99% of potential suicides before they occur.

It's grimly amusing to see murderers fight for their lives, especially psychos like Manson.  Charles Manson used to coach his "Family" on the transitory nature of life and the beautiful release of death.  But, oh boy, when his sorry azz was on the pan back in 1970, he sure fought like the devil to save his own life!
:P

The reason Manson and his creep-o followers are still alive is their death sentences were all communited to life in prison when capital punishment was banned by the Supreme Court in 1972.

Not that I think the should have been executed, as I said umpteen times, I don't believe in capital punishment.

The reason death row inmates fight so hard for their lives is because of basic survival instinct.  This is the same instinct that stops 99% of potential suicides before they occur.


Exactly.  The perps WANT life, but would suffer more on life w/o parole.  Get it?

The Justice system doesn't operate on the system of doling out the harshest punishment possible. It is about preventing harm to people(if you boil it down to it's most basic purpose).

Who sold you that load of claptrap?  Of course punishment is a feature of a well functioning justice system.

Do you think that the wold is "safer" because Martha Stewart is wearing an ankle bracelet?  That somehow the bracelet will prevent her from commiting wild and wanton acts of purjury and obstruction of justice?

The bracelet and house arrest are PUNISHMENT.  That is the PURPOSE of it.  It is written into the United States Constitution (e.g., the Eighth Amendment).  It just can not be "cruel or unusual".

A "habitual" criminal is someone who is released when they probably shouldn't have been.

Remember though, nobody is born a habitual criminal... they have to START somewhere... and this is when the "deterrence" of a punishment is most important...

No, turning a one-off offender into someone who's not going to offend again is not done by excessively harsh and primitive prison conditions: that is precisely the way to turn someone into a habitual crminal, by making them into something that can't function properly in civilised society.  The best way of ensuring someone doesn't commit a second crime is to ensure that when they leave prison they are at the very least capable of earning money somehow, and ideally know what it feels like to have succeeded in doing something worthwhile.

As long as that @sshole that killed my son Blaine doesn't get the "Star" treatment that Charlie Manson and I'm SURE many others are getting...you know, TV, internet and many other treats....then I don't have a problem with him spending the rest of his pathetic life in lockdown 23 hours a day >:( As for Peterson,, since he's in California he'll probably end up playing with Manson on the internet, ordering movies and screwing a long line of women who are turned on by his evil >:(

If true, it would make a good movie..so far, haven't heard any names...what's he doing keeping it to himself??
Maybe others could benefit...?? :-\\

If HE has such a legit example AMERICA would LOVE to hear it as they can use it as fodder for ending the death penalty...