And, their karma just happens to be a minority inmate nicknamed Bubba :P


;D

Darn right Rockandrollfan, I can't believe a group like the KKK still exists today in 2005. They need to pull their heads out of their butts and realize that it's not the 19th century. They had a rally here in Cleveland a few years back that was very controversial, but it still occurred. Truly a sick bunch of individuals.


While I think their beliefs and actions are reprehensible, that doesn't mean that they don't have the right to believe any way they want... and as long as it was a peaceful demonstration, then they have the right to demonstrate even if we stand aghast at their message.

While I think their beliefs and actions are reprehensible, that doesn't mean that they don't have the right to believe any way they want... and as long as it was a peaceful demonstration, then they have the right to demonstrate even if we stand aghast at their message.
They had a "Peacefull" rally in Denver back in the 90's and while I agree that people have a right to expression...all they express is Hatred for another race, and THAT is just wrong >:(

And, their karma just happens to be a minority inmate nicknamed Bubba :P
;D Love it, crazymom ;)

A scene that i thought was fantastic and i wish i had a picture of was a bunch of KKK Nut jobs parading down this city street, a man threw something at one of them (from the crowd) and the KKK Nut decided he should throw a punch. A Black Police officer stopped him and escorted him away. Dosen't sound amazing but i loved it.. it was like.. come on now Jimmy Joe Jr, stop acting like a twat.

;D Love it, crazymom ;)


Seriously, I don't think I wish rape upon KKK guys, but I wouldn't care much if they were either.  They're about the scummiest people there are.  >:( 

I think they should all be put on a deserted island.  You know, Survivor only with scumbags who are living a prison sentence.  The prize for winning: soap on a rope  ;D 

-FHF

The prize for winning: soap on a rope  ;D 



;D LMAO!

While I think their beliefs and actions are reprehensible, that doesn't mean that they don't have the right to believe any way they want... and as long as it was a peaceful demonstration, then they have the right to demonstrate even if we stand aghast at their message.


Yea, they have the right to express their views, and I have the right to express mine, they are a screwed up group of idiots.

I also say no.  The reparations that were given to the Japanese & Jews were paid to those people who were involved in the "incidents" (for lack of a better term).  The time to make any monetary payment was when the slaves were still alive.

That's the key to the entire problem nobody who was enslaved while slavery was legal is alive today.  Not even their grandchildren are alive.  Then you've got the question of who actually qualifies as a descendent deserving of reparations. 
Lani Guinnire (sp?) at Harvard made a stink about African Africans getting affirmative action when their ancestors were not American slaves. 
::)
Well, how do you know, lady?  That 19 year-old from West Africa might have had ancestors who were seized by slave traders.  There is also the question of who is truly African American.  If you are 1/4 black, it means the majority of your ancestors were NOT black.  Where do you draw the line?  Do you say it doesn't matter even if you are only 1/32 black because that's all it took to BE considered black and duly enslaved or oppressed?  That's going to be a tough sell.
There are a dozen other complicating factors when it comes to American slave reparations.  Slavery and racism are atrocious legacies running too deep and too long to be absolved by one act of contrition.
Even if the U.S. treasury cut a check to every single African American, it wouldn't resolve the perpeutal prejudice in American culture.  In fact, payment of reparations may only serve to rattle the redneck cage and further divide the "races." 

 

That's the key to the entire problem nobody who was enslaved while slavery was legal is alive today.  Not even their grandchildren are alive.  Then you've got the question of who actually qualifies as a descendent deserving of reparations. 

Well, how do you know, lady?  That 19 year-old from West Africa might have had ancestors who were seized by slave traders.  There is also the question of who is truly African American.  If you are 1/4 black, it means the majority of your ancestors were NOT black.  Where do you draw the line?  Do you say it doesn't matter even if you are only 1/32 black because that's all it took to BE considered black and duly enslaved or oppressed?  That's going to be a tough sell.


I know many grandchildren of slaves (including members of my family as well as my husband's). You forget that African-Americans were born into slavery sometimes. A lot of children at the age of five had to work the fields along with the adults. They became free in their adult lives, had children, and hence had grandchildren. As for the 1/4 black equation, all you needed was at least two black grandparent on at least one side of your family. You're referring to 1/8 (octoroons).

Tanya

That's the key to the entire problem nobody who was enslaved while slavery was legal is alive today.  Not even their grandchildren are alive.  Then you've got the question of who actually qualifies as a descendent deserving of reparations. 
If you are 1/4 black, it means the majority of your ancestors were NOT black.  Where do you draw the line?  Do you say it doesn't matter even if you are only 1/32 black because that's all it took to BE considered black and duly enslaved or oppressed?  That's going to be a tough sell.
Even if the U.S. treasury cut a check to every single African American, it wouldn't resolve the perpeutal prejudice in American culture.  In fact, payment of reparations may only serve to rattle the redneck cage and further divide the "races." 


My mother is still alive, granddaughter of slaves.  So there are a few, but like the WWI vet, few and far between.  Her grandparents had the foresight to leave the south when reconstruction crumbled.  There, of course was that one drop law which said if you had one drop of Negro blood, you were Negro.  So in the interest of bringing the country together I say we offer reparations to all those who can prove they have that one drop, and see how many KKK robes start rolling up the sleeves to take the DNA test that will give them a check in the mail?  All of the sudden we will all be kissin cousins,MONEY CHANGES EVERYTHING

Yea, they have the right to express their views, and I have the right to express mine, they are a screwed up group of idiots.


I agree with that wholly.

I don't think hate is really all that hard to understand -- it seems to me that the line between rationalizing your hate and rising above it is pretty thin.

Even if the U.S. treasury cut a check to every single African American, it wouldn't resolve the perpeutal prejudice in American culture.  In fact, payment of reparations may only serve to rattle the redneck cage and further divide the "races." 
That's probably my biggest argument as well against reparations in the form of lump payments. This would indeed do little more than unnecessarily escalate racial tensions. And I can understand why some whites would feel resentful about this. I could easily make the argument that my tax dollars shouldn't have to go towards reparations, since my great-grandparents didn't get off the boat until 1901, so why should I have to pay for something that even my ancestors weren't responsible for? I mean what next? Are they gonna start requiring you to submit a geneological chart along with your 1040 so that the I.R.S. can adjust your tax rate based on how big of an @sshole your great-great-great grandfather was?
    As I said in an eariler post, I would be in favor of some kind of economic stimulus program (low-interest small business loans and tax credits) for our inner cities.

No, you're not responsible for the past. However, if you think about it, you benefitted from the system created by such past practices.

Tanya

No, you're not responsible for the past. However, if you think about it, you benefitted from the system created by such past practices.

Tanya
You're right. But there's nothing we can do to change what happened in the past. What we need to do is to work together and try to correct what is wrong today. But before that can happen, the very first thing we need to do is to wake up and realize that most of our racial differences are being deliberately blown way out of proportion by the mainstream media, which is controlled by the elite that runs this country, who has a vested interest in keeping us at each others' throats. Until we can see past that, we won't get anywhere.

You're right. But there's nothing we can do to change what happened in the past. What we need to do is to work together and try to correct what is wrong today. But before that can happen, the very first thing we need to do is to wake up and realize that most of our racial differences are being deliberately blown way out of proportion by the mainstream media, which is controlled by the elite that runs this country, who has a vested interest in keeping us at each others' throats. Until we can see past that, we won't get anywhere.


Very true.

Tanya

I didn't vote because reparations aren't for "racism" but for years of uncompensated labor, the sale of family members, untold whippings and the like.  I favor reparations, but NOT from any tax supported fund.  Rather, the companies and estates that profited from slavery and the slave trade (which continued long after it was banned by the Constitution - 1808) should be made to pay, just as Krupp, I.G.Farben, VW etc, have been made to pay reparations to holicost victims and their decendants.

Had the Radical Republicans who controlled Congress (the ones wqho impeached Andrew Johnson) had the guts to give every slave family 40 acres and a mule after the war, by confiscating plantations, that would have been compensation.  But, like their modern counterparts, they were more in favor of the rights of property than in justice.

The statute of limitations covers lots of crimes.  It does not apply to murder.  Should it apply to genocide?  Should it apply to the equally horrendous crimes committed by slave owners and their "willin for the shillin" accomplices?

I was raised Catholic, and taught that only through penance could I be forgiven my sins.I think that also applies to the white/black relationship.

In one speach MLK compared black people to someone who was wrongfully convicted of a crime.  Upon release he is given cloths, shoes, money, a chance for a new start.  This man youo can tell to pull himself up by his boot straps.  What did former slaves get?  NOTHING, certainly no boots, and no straps.  Yet this nation achieved the development it did based on the extermination of one race, and the enslavement of another.

  Let those who porfited pay

My mother is still alive, granddaughter of slaves.  So there are a few, but like the WWI vet, few and far between.  Her grandparents had the foresight to leave the south when reconstruction crumbled.  There, of course was that one drop law which said if you had one drop of Negro blood, you were Negro.  So in the interest of bringing the country together I say we offer reparations to all those who can prove they have that one drop, and see how many KKK robes start rolling up the sleeves to take the DNA test that will give them a check in the mail?  All of the sudden we will all be kissin cousins,MONEY CHANGES EVERYTHING

So sayeth Cyndi Lauper!
:)

Yes, I realized after I posted that there would be many people alive whose grandparents have been born into slavery.  However, they were most likely born into slavery, early 1860s.  The grandchildren themselves would also be quite advanced in age.
But that reminds me of another question about reparations.  After the Northern occupation of the Reconstruction went home came the era of Jim Crow.  In some ways, African Americans were abused worse under Jim Crow (I am not saying slavery was better).  If African Americans deserve reparations for slavery, the certainly deserve it for Jim Crow.  After all, Jim Crow was one long terrorist institution designed to deprive Blacks of the rights they were granted by Constitutional amendment.  Now that's what I call "judicial activism" and Conservatives weren't whining about it then!
There are millions of Jim Crow survivors alive today.  Now,the major pieces of civil rights legislation were passed in the early 1960s.  I can't count how many times the collective and indidual civil rights of African Americans have been violated since then!  If reparations are warrented for Constitutional rights violations during Jim Crow, they are certainly warranted for civil rights violations post-Jim Crow.  The civil rights laws were passed to enforce the Constitutional rights guaranteed by the 13th, 14th, and 15th Amendments.  These amendments were the post-bellum guarantees of unbonded freedom and equal rights among races.  Thus, violating civil rights today is to violate the compact made between whites and
African Americans in the 19th century.
Like I said, the issue gets impossibly complicated as white America's atrocious treatment of the descendents of Africa has been ongoing for 400 years.

There are millions of Jim Crow survivors alive today.  Now,the major pieces of civil rights legislation were passed in the early 1960s.  I can't count how many times the collective and individual civil rights of African Americans have been violated since then!  If reparations are warrented for Constitutional rights violations during Jim Crow, they are certainly warranted for civil rights violations post-Jim Crow.  The civil rights laws were passed to enforce the Constitutional rights guaranteed by the 13th, 14th, and 15th Amendments.  These amendments were the post-bellum guarantees of unbonded freedom and equal rights among races.  Thus, violating civil rights today is to violate the compact made between whites and African Americans in the 19th century.



I do agree that reparations for slavery is a far-fetched idea, as is going back to insurance companies because
they were involved in insuring slaves as property.  But as you say Jim Crow was(and in many ways is) alive
and well, the consequences almost as devastating.  The remedy for all this is as simple.  Voting rights, , education, equity in opportunities for jobs, investment in small businesses.  The programs are in place, they just have to be funded, and/or utilized.  We must not pretend that discrimination doesn't exist, or that affirmative action is a way for non-qualified African-Americans takes jobs away from qualified whites.  I hear that and by blood boils.  I, for one, am sick of police, firefighters, complain about not getting the job that they thought they could walk into because the fathers, uncles, cousins, father in laws, etc, walked into them.  They were hired on the basis of family, not qualifications, and figured that was okay.  Now they are whining about qualifications. Get over it. There are many unqualified whites in these positions solely on the basis of
familial ties. Jumping up and down and saying affirmative action gives jobs to unqualified African Americans cannot hold water unless you jump up and down about the same jobs going to unqualified Caucasians.  In the same way you cannot be upset about affirmative action on college campuses when georgie bush entered Harvard without the necessary credentials.  I don't see anyone suing the wealthy because their unqualified legacy placements took their place in school.  Until I do I cannot take the wimpy whining about qualifications seriously.  I will also add that almost every job I have had is thanks to affirmative action, and I have been qualified for all of them.  The reality is that without affirmative action qualifications did not matter, your color disqualified you.

So sayeth Cyndi Lauper!
:)

Yes, I realized after I posted that there would be many people alive whose grandparents have been born into slavery.  However, they were most likely born into slavery, early 1860s.  The grandchildren themselves would also be quite advanced in age.
But that reminds me of another question about reparations.  After the Northern occupation of the Reconstruction went home came the era of Jim Crow.  In some ways, African Americans were abused worse under Jim Crow (I am not saying slavery was better).  If African Americans deserve reparations for slavery, the certainly deserve it for Jim Crow.  After all, Jim Crow was one long terrorist institution designed to deprive Blacks of the rights they were granted by Constitutional amendment.  Now that's what I call "judicial activism" and Conservatives weren't whining about it then!
There are millions of Jim Crow survivors alive today.  Now,the major pieces of civil rights legislation were passed in the early 1960s.  I can't count how many times the collective and indidual civil rights of African Americans have been violated since then!  If reparations are warrented for Constitutional rights violations during Jim Crow, they are certainly warranted for civil rights violations post-Jim Crow.  The civil rights laws were passed to enforce the Constitutional rights guaranteed by the 13th, 14th, and 15th Amendments.  These amendments were the post-bellum guarantees of unbonded freedom and equal rights among races.  Thus, violating civil rights today is to violate the compact made between whites and
African Americans in the 19th century.
Like I said, the issue gets impossibly complicated as white America's atrocious treatment of the descendents of Africa has been ongoing for 400 years.



Here, here!

Tanya

I tend to think issues like this don't create divisiveness as much as they unconceal it.  Whether that's good or bad, I'm not sure.  But I lean towards thinking it's probably better to understand where we're divided on fundamental issues of fairness and equity.

But I lean towards thinking it's probably better to understand where we're divided on fundamental issues of fairness and equity.


Well, fairness and equality IS fundamental to this discussion.  Slaves were held captive, beaten, abused, exploited, raped... in this country for 300 years.  Why should their decendants not be compensated for their uncompensated labor, and for the abuses to which they were subjected?  How can we simply dismiss all these generations of abuse and exploitation "just history - live with it"?  My understanding is that Christian are suppose to repent of their sins.  I see little evidance of willingness to do so here.

Well, fairness and equality IS fundamental to this discussion.  Slaves were held captive, beaten, abused, exploited, raped... in this country for 300 years.  Why should their decendants not be compensated for their uncompensated labor, and for the abuses to which they were subjected?  How can we simply dismiss all these generations of abuse and exploitation "just history - live with it"?  My understanding is that Christian are suppose to repent of their sins.  I see little evidance of willingness to do so here.


It seems like you're misunderstanding my point, which is simply that it's better to know where people disagree on issues than to not talk about controversial issues.  That's all.  I know it's not provocative, but... sorry.