Police Say They Will Be Watching

POSTED: 8:07 am EST February 19, 2005
UPDATED: 8:17 am EST February 19, 2005

DIDMARTON, England -- A ban on hunting with dogs is being tested Saturday across England and Wales by riders on gleaming horses with their packs of eager hounds.

http://images.ibsys.com/2005/0219/4214143_200X150.jpg

Hunting ban supporters dressed as animals as they celebrated the ban on using dogs to hunt animals in Britain.

And police promise to be watching.

Thousands of hunters are expected to attend more than 250 hunts around the country.

Participants said they will try to exploit loopholes rather than break the law outright.

But one chief constable said the law "fairly straightforward."

The most closely watched of Saturday's pursuits, the Beaufort Hunt in western England, is playing it safe with dogs following a scent trail rather than live foxes.

The Beaufort is close to Highgrove, Prince Charles' country home, and he and his fiancee Camilla Parker Bowles are regular participants.

The controversial hunting ban took effect on Friday.


"Thousands of hunt supporters have vowed to continue, with the Countryside Alliance saying many hunts will be out in force over the weekend when they will try to keep within the law by drag hunting or shooting foxes." -BBC


--The news reported that a few hundred Fox Hunts took place today in Defiance of the new law!  Good for them!  Nothing wrong with citizens breaking unjust laws, in my opinion.

Police Say They Will Be Watching

POSTED: 8:07 am EST February 19, 2005
UPDATED: 8:17 am EST February 19, 2005

DIDMARTON, England -- A ban on hunting with dogs is being tested Saturday across England and Wales by riders on gleaming horses with their packs of eager hounds.
A real hunter doesn't hunt with dogs, he hunts with hot chicks!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/38499000/jpg/_38499315_150moore.jpg

A real hunter doesn't hunt with dogs, he hunts with hot chicks!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/38499000/jpg/_38499315_150moore.jpg


::)

Hunts attacked for 'brandishing dead foxes in PR stunt' By Valerie Elliott, Countryside Editor
HUNTSMEN who brandished the carcasses of foxes in defiance of the ban on hunting were attacked yesterday for their “triumphalism”.

Anti-hunt campaigners were confident that there would be prosecutions for the unlawful killing of some of these trophy foxes. But Michael Foster, Labour MP for Worcester, who first tried to introduce a ban eight years ago, denounced the parade of dead foxes as a PR stunt by the Countryside Alliance and felt his campaign to ban the use of dogs to kill foxes had been vindicated.

Huntspeople, however, are threatening to step up their actions to expose what they believe are absurd new laws. They intend to test the wording of the legislation even if it exasperates the police.

Mr Foster told The Times: “What we saw on Saturday is that hunts can still have the pomp, the pageantry and the social side of the event without dogs killing foxes.”

But he attacked the “clever but cynical ploy” by hunt supporters. “It was just a PR stunt. We have never said foxes should not be controlled, we just wanted them killed in the most humane way.”

He also ridiculed the tactic of the philosopher Roger Scruton, who organised a mouse hunt at his West Country home.

“People cannot seriously believe there is going to be a switch to mouse hunting instead of foxhunting,” he said. “That is a nonsense and no one should take these stunts seriously.”

Alun Michael, the Rural Affairs Minister, called on huntspeople to obey the new law and appealed to them not to waste police time by testing it. He said: “I think many people will be shocked by the triumphalism depicted by some, but again the question is whether they are obeying the law and whether their behaviour is wise. If some foxes were killed illegally, it will become obvious over time.”

It is clear, however, that anti-hunt campaigners are dismayed by the lack of interest in the new laws by police. Adrian Whiting, the Assistant Chief Constable for the Dorset force, said yesterday that illegal hunting was much less important than letting off a firework after 11pm. The low priority given to hunting by police has also alarmed the Alliance. Simon Hart, its chief executive, fears that police will rely on “vigilante groups” and has written to Nigel Yeo, Assistant Chief Constable in Sussex, who heads the public order working group for the Association of Chief Police Officers.

The League Against Cruel Sports has received many calls from people willing to check that hunts stay within the law. Mike Hobday, its spokesman, said: “We’ve been getting 20 calls a day and are going to set up some training days to make sure we can keep close surveillance of all hunts next season.”

The Alliance will petition the law lords early this week and urge them to accept an appeal over the validity of the ban. Hunt supporters are also still hoping that Lord Goldsmith, QC, the Attorney-General, will delay prosecutions while legal challenges continue.

Link: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-1493678,00.html

Well, some well-known huntsmen may find something different to ride:

http://www.geekgifts.co.uk/camilla2.jpg

Seems to me to be very little sport on unleashing a pack of dogs to chase down a fox and follow them on horseback.  Unless, I guess, if one is a bored aristocrate with nothing better to do with his time, especially since they don't eat the foxes they catch (unlike - I suspect - James Bond).  I'm not a hunter myself - tried it once and was shot at by other hunters - but I have nothing against hunting meat - to eat.  But I congradulate the Brits for outlawing this stupid, aristocratic nonsense.  I hope the punishment for breaking this law is being drawn and quartered (not really).

Carlos i disagree, i am not Aristocrat and i went Hunting on the weekend. Hey i agree it is a fairly pathetic sport, but us Country folk have been doing it for 100 of years. We are protesting against asshole Politicians running our lives not the people who want it banned.

They are just ignorant of the situation. If the hunt dosen't carry on the farmers will rip out hedges that are hundreds of years old, you know why.. cus the hunt pays them to keep them there. If the hunt dosen't carry on... the poor little foxes won't be better off.. THEY WILL BE EXTINCT. The farmers will just set traps and lay out Poision. Now what would you prefer, to be killed in a matter of seconds (yes contrary to popular belief, half the time the fox is shot the hounds don't do anything + when they do it is very fast).. or would you prefer to be posioned and die over a matter of days?

In Germany hunting was banned.. the farmers poisoned all the foxes and guess what.. go on guess.. give up.. GERMANY HAS NO FOXES. Not one.. no foxes in germany.

Now if the so called Elitists can accept me, i don't see why they couldn't accept anybody. I have a horse, don't mean i'm rich Partner. Same as, I supprt and have gone to Hunts.. don't mean i am part of the elite.

Again i will re-itorate (because i am tired and have gone off on a tagent) It's not so much the banning of so called 'bloodsports' that we have a problem with, it's the fact that This 'Government' has taken upon it'self to destroy a way of life, and to benefit who. Tell me who exactly will actually benefit from this?

Well, some well-known huntsmen may find something different to ride:

http://www.geekgifts.co.uk/camilla2.jpg


Har, har...!!

Is it me, or is she more attractive like that...?!!

Well, some well-known huntsmen may find something different to ride:

http://www.geekgifts.co.uk/camilla2.jpg
That horse bears a striking resemblance to Melissa Rivers (Joan's daughter).  ;)

http://www.geekgifts.co.uk/camilla2.jpg


That could not be an uglier couple (in real life.)

they will try to keep within the law by drag hunting or shooting foxes." -BBC

Now, I thought that guns were illegal in the United Kingdom...? Did they mean with a bow?

Did they mean with a bow?


Bow and arrows are legal in Great Britain.  That is what I assume the BBC means.

i guess actually hunting the foxes with a rifle is out of the question. i don't see much sport in hunting foxes with dogs and ceremony but i defend hunting in my country so i support the brits in keeping a tradition.

so i support the brits in keeping a tradition.


Same.  Personally I hope the hunters hunt twice as much, and vote out Labor for this.  Blair lost my respect by not letting the house of lords vote on this ban.

Carry on hunters.

Now, I thought that guns were illegal in the United Kingdom...? Did they mean with a bow?

All handguns are illegal: shotguns and rifles are allowed with a license.

The "pest control" argument for hunting is a diversion, as is (IMO) the argument that farmers have only kept hedges 'cause the hunt pay them to.  If a hunt went out and caught forty or fifty foxes a week, then that probably would have an effect on fox population; the odd one at weekends is a fraction of the number that die as roadkill.  Use of parliamentary power to ban hunting has always seemed disproportionate to me, though... not that I feel much in the way of sympathy towards huntsmen (Sympathy?  Something that comes between sheesh and syphilis in the dictionary...)


Blair lost my respect by not letting the house of lords vote on this ban.

Well, they did twice... then it was forced through using the Parliament Act.  It's a bit hard to blame Blair for this: he didn't really have much desire to push it through (if Blair had really wanted a hunting ban, it'd have gone through in his first term); but 90% of his back-bench MPs were jumping up and down about it, so eventually he just let 'em go bag their, er, fox.

Well, they did twice... then it was forced through using the Parliament Act.


Wait a minute, I didn't know that.  Are you telling me the house of lords voted down this ban twice, and then Blair forced it through?  So Blair has most likely lost the hunter vote, right?

All handguns are illegal: shotguns and rifles are allowed with a license.

How hard is it to get one of these licenses?

Well, some well-known huntsmen may find something different to ride:

http://www.geekgifts.co.uk/camilla2.jpg


That made my day!  ;D ;D ;D

Wait a minute, I didn't know that.  Are you telling me the house of lords voted down this ban twice, and then Blair forced it through? So Blair has most likely lost the hunter vote, right?

Yep, to both (not that Blair ever had the hunting vote).  The House of Lords is intended to be an amending chamber rather than one that can sit in opposition to the Commons, so the Commons (being the elected chamber) has to have the last word.  But it has to be said that the bills the Lords has tried to shaft (and they've done it successfully with anti-hunting bills on two or three occasions) have usually been poor legislation - the Poll Tax was one fairly good example, it being the only time I can remember that the Lords has tried to stop Conservative legislation.  They're usually much more militant with Labour.


How hard is it to get one of these licenses?

Depends: shotgun licenses are fairly easy.  You need the full police vetting check (but that's not exactly strenuous - I fill in three or four of those a year).  It may need a police interview, too - I'm pretty sure the rifle licenses do.  And a lockable cabinet to store the gun.  But a friend of mine owns a shotgun, and goes clay pigeon shooting fairly regularly - I don't think he had that hard a time convincing the cops he had a valid reason for owning the thing.

I support hunting for the purposes of food, not sport. It can, of course, be both... but as llong as meat gets to someone's stomach, I'm cool with it. Wanton slaughter of innocent creatures, however, is something I am morally opposed to. It's just cruel. If a there is a meddlesome fox fecking around with your chickens or sheep, then by all means shoot it and make use of it somehow. But don't go out with rabid hounds and let them tear up innocent foxes to shreds... that's cruel and stupid. One thing that should definitely be in place is a ban on the killing of the vixens and pups. If the "hunting" is to continue, then let it be kept to male foxes in the proper season only.

In Germany hunting was banned.. the farmers poisoned all the foxes and guess what.. go on guess.. give up.. GERMANY HAS NO FOXES. Not one.. no foxes in germany.



I've been waiting months too post this, and I had to dig for half an hour to locate the thread, but it is worth it...

My next door neighbor is a German, born and raised there, owns and maintains a house there and went back in January for a three month stay. She lives in a small rural town in the Erzgebirge region. When she returned a couple of weeks ago I was asking her about her visit, and what her town was like, general stuff like that.

And then I very casually asked her:

"Do you have any foxes in Germany?"

Her replay:

"Oh yes! They are all over the place...."

And went onto describe the most recent time she sighted one etc... etc...


So... would you like to eat your crow with or without gravy....? ::)

I've been waiting months too post this, and I had to dig for half an hour to locate the thread, but it is worth it...

My next door neighbor is a German, born and raised there, owns and maintains a house there and went back in January for a three month stay. She lives in a small rural town in the Erzgebirge region. When she returned a couple of weeks ago I was asking her about her visit, and what her town was like, general stuff like that.

And then I very casually asked her:

"Do you have any foxes in Germany?"

Her replay:

"Oh yes! They are all over the place...."

And went onto describe the most recent time she sighted one etc... etc...


So... would you like to eat your crow with or without gravy....? ::)


I'll call a spade a spade. Upon much further research yes you are right there are foxes in Germany. However. After the hunting ban in Germany, The 'Red Fox' (i thought they were all kinda red) Died out.

I'll call a spade a spade. Upon much further research yes you are right there are foxes in Germany. However. After the hunting ban in Germany, The 'Red Fox' (i thought they were all kinda red) Died out.

If European hunters want to show themselves to be real men, let 'em go to the wilds of Romania and hunt bear!
:o
If I'm not mistaken, the Romanians are still trying to kill off all those packs of feral dogs.  Back in the '70s, Ceaucescu (sp?) had tons of public housing built.  The countryside farms were all failing because that kind of communist dictatorship just doesn't work.  Anyway, the Big C prohibited dogs from public housing.  So the farmers and the villagers abandoned their dogs.  In a few years, feral dogs became a problem, and the problem grew and grew.

As for fox hunting, I share William Burroughs sentiment:
"I will take this occasion to denounce and excoriate the vile English practice of riding to hounds. So the sodden huntsman can watch a beautiful, delicate fox torn to pieces by their stinking dogs. Heartened by this loutish spectacle, they repair to the manor house to get drunker than they already are, no better than their filthy, fawning, sh*t-eating, carrion-rolling, baby-killing beasts."
--William S. Burroughs, "The Cat Inside"

Old Bill was pretty succinct about things.  The only FOX that should be killed off is this one:
http://www.kingofsat.net/fox-news.jpg

I have to say I am anti-hunting and am delighted this bill went through.My personal experience of huntsmen is that they are complete arrogant tossers who think the world owes them a living.

However I read a very interesting magazine article where the reporter spent a day with anti-hunt protesters and then a day with the Hunt.Her conclusion at the end was that she had expected to come down heavily on the side of the anti-hunt people but actually found she didn't as much as she had thought she would.Her one abiding horror from the whole experience was the appaling way the hounds are treated and the miserable future they had ahead of them.(The pack was due to be shot at the age of three because they would then be 'too old'.) 

I have to say I am anti-hunting and am delighted this bill went through.My personal experience of huntsmen is that they are complete arrogant tossers who think the world owes them a living.

However I read a very interesting magazine article where the reporter spent a day with anti-hunt protesters and then a day with the Hunt.Her conclusion at the end was that she had expected to come down heavily on the side of the anti-hunt people but actually found she didn't as much as she had thought she would.Her one abiding horror from the whole experience was the appaling way the hounds are treated and the miserable future they had ahead of them.(The pack was due to be shot at the age of three because they would then be 'too old'.) 


I've gone out with the Leicestershire hunt before and of course there are some Tossers. Go to Sainsburys and you'll see far more! I've never heard of the practise of shooting the dogs because they're too old. Of course some won't run with the hunt anymore but usually they tend to be sold or they use them for breeding.

I have to say I am anti-hunting and am delighted this bill went through.My personal experience of huntsmen is that they are complete arrogant tossers who think the world owes them a living. 


I hope you're only talking about British hunters.

Of course some won't run with the hunt anymore but usually they tend to be sold or they use them for breeding.

They try and place as many as they can - if they're lucky, it's as many as a quarter; the average figure I was told was about 10% of ex-hunting dogs find homes after they're retired from the hunt.  The rest are put down: the chap I was speaking to was a hunting vet - I mean a vetinarian who rode with the hunt - and killed the dogs as humanely as possible (or said he did, and I'd believe him).  Whether all hunt dogs are given the same consideration at the end of their lives, I couldn't say, but at least they're not all shot.


I hope you're only talking about British hunters.

From context, I'd guess she meant the chaps in red coats who ride after foxes...

But I know exactly what the person who went out with the hunt sabs was feeling: I came away from a couple of hunt sabotage, er, "missions" thinking that the only people worse than the ones on the horses were the ones trying to stop them.

From context, I'd guess she meant the chaps in red coats who ride after foxes...


Ah, that's good.  Hunters in America, and the honorable ones in Britain that kill the animal for food and not for sport are usually good people.

Ah, that's good.  Hunters in America, and the honorable ones in Britain that kill the animal for food and not for sport are usually good people.

Whoah!  There are a fair amount of "trophy" hunters in America.  These include creeps who kill an old stag just to get his antlers, and the creeps who shoot "exotic" game, such as leopards or zebras, on safari-style enclosures. 
The Bushes are know to enjoy such cowardly hunts.

I've gone out with the Leicestershire hunt before and of course there are some Tossers. Go to Sainsburys and you'll see far more!
Very true ! This was my personal experience of a couple of the hunts that ride around Oxfordshire.I'm sure there were some nice people in there too unfortunatly I never met them.

I hope you're only talking about British hunters.
I was talking meaning the British wearers of hunting pink yes, I don't think I've ever met an American hunter.Can't say I aprove of the ones who hunt Moose though mainly cos I love mooses !

That horse bears a striking resemblance to Melissa Rivers (Joan's daughter).  ;)


http://www.geekgifts.co.uk/camilla2.jpg

HAHAHAHAHAHA  LMAO

Looks like Joan too IMO   ;D

Whoah!  There are a fair amount of "trophy" hunters in America.  These include creeps who kill an old stag just to get his antlers, and the creeps who shoot "exotic" game, such as leopards or zebras, on safari-style enclosures. 


While it's true that most deer hunters try to kill the buck with the biggest antlers, I don't think I've ever seen/heard of a hunter who killed the deer for the sole purpose of the antlers.

Ah, that's good.  Hunters in America, and the honorable ones in Britain that kill the animal for food and not for sport are usually good people.


HUH? We kill foxes for food? No.

I've been on a few Hunt Sab meetings, and there are no pleasant people amongst them, YES they are all arrogant, snobbish bastards who need to be dismounted roughly from their beautiful Hunters in a forcful manner,
preferably in the style an American Policeman would handle a drugs dealer.

British cops have their hands tied and must ask in a courteous fashion Sir, I do believe you have commited a crime, please if you don't mind, would you kindly accompany me to the local Police Station."   ::) ::)

Well, some well-known huntsmen may find something different to ride:

http://www.geekgifts.co.uk/camilla2.jpg
one is not amused camilla is my wife next you will be saying that the frog from that irritating ring tone is my wife ;D ;D ;D ;D ;)

I've been on a few Hunt Sab meetings, and there are no pleasant people amongst them, YES they are all arrogant, snobbish bastards who need to be dismounted roughly from their beautiful Hunters in a forcful manner,
preferably in the style an American Policeman would handle a drugs dealer.

British cops have their hands tied and must ask in a courteous fashion Sir, I do believe you have commited a crime, please if you don't mind, would you kindly accompany me to the local Police Station."  ::) ::)


Actually i'd much prefer the police to go out and arrest some Drug Dealers than to go and bother people carrying on a tradition that's been going on for years. A tradition that helps preserve the countryside that Britain is famous for.

People talk about the snob factor. I'm no snob, my family isn't wealthy and none of us went to Public School but i've never felt any hostility.

Of course the police should act in a courteous fashion, It's very hard for the Police to prove that they are hunting so why should they run in all guns blazeing?

HUH? We kill foxes for food? No.


Are foxes the only animal that hunters in Britain hunt?

Are foxes the only animal that hunters in Britain hunt?


Foxhunting is pretty much it.

Some other hunting goes on, and i think you can get Licenses to do some hunting but only in small areas and only for certian animals. Far Far FAR! Less hunting goes on here. Mainly because guns are pretty much illegal.

Are foxes the only animal that hunters in Britain hunt?


Yeah, but there is grouse and pheasant shooting for food, and I believe over the border in Scotland and my area Northumberland they shoot Deer (venison) for the restaurant industry.

ban fox hunting  >:(

ban fox hunting  >:(


Can you give us a reasoned response as to why you want fox-hunting banned rc?

Can you give us a reasoned response as to why you want fox-hunting banned rc?
hello Mr Tumnus its cruel.

hello Mr Tumnus is cruel.


Do you mean;

1.  Fox hunting is cruel?

or

2.  I am cruel?

I wish you'd sort out out you're friggin grammar.

Do you mean;

1.  Fox hunting is cruel?

or

2.  I am cruel?

I wish you'd sort out out you're friggin grammer.
1 Fox hunting is cruel 2  I am cruel? i cant ansswer that one.

1 Fox hunting is cruel 2  I am cruel? i cant ansswer that one.


Throws arms in the air and shouts "I GIVE UP"  in an exasperated tone!!

Throws arms in the air and shouts "I GIVE UP"  in an exasperated tone!!
i do not like fox hunting full stop.  I do not know what your views are on this. are you in favour of it or not?

i do not like fox hunting full stop.  I do not know what your views are on this. are you in favour of it or not?


I'm for a full on ban. I resent the cruelty of the chase. If it's a case of killing the fox for pest control, then marksmen should be employed to ensure the animal is killed first time. However I believe natural evolution deals with numbers and they do not even need to be shot.

Huntsmen need to get off their fat arses and should be made to run after the fox on foot if they wanna chase it.

I'm for a full on ban. I resent the cruelty of the chase. If it's a case of killing the fox for pest control, then marksmen should be employed to ensure the animal is killed first time. However I believe natural evolution deals with numbers and they do not even need to be shot.

Huntsmen need to get off their fat arses and should be made to run after the fox on foot if they wanna chase it.
I fully agree with you on that baning it sounds the answer as for the Huntsmen i would like to see them get hunted by the foxes on horses.

I fully agree with you on that baning it sounds the answer as for the Huntsmen i would like to see them get hunted by the foxes on horses.


What a great idea, and what a great picture that conjures up!

TALLY HO!  ;D  ;D

What a great idea, and what a great picture that conjures up!

TALLY HO!   ;D  ;D
So get a picture whacked up fairly quick and put it on here and we can all have a good laugh at it!

So get a picture whacked up fairly quick and put it on here and we can all have a good laugh at it!


I'll see what I can do  ;)

I'll see what I can do  ;)
nice one. I can't wait to see it! :)

http://www.cartoonstock.com/lowres/jsi0071l.jpg

http://www.cartoonstock.com/lowres/jsi0071l.jpg
wow  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;)

I'm for a full on ban. I resent the cruelty of the chase. If it's a case of killing the fox for pest control, then marksmen should be employed to ensure the animal is killed first time. However I believe natural evolution deals with numbers and they do not even need to be shot.


Never heard of rabbits?

One more time, i will outline the two things the hunt does that would go to pot if it were to vanish.

1) Protects the countryside. The hunt PAYS MONEY!! to Farmers to leave the hedges up. Do you really think they would leave the hedges up if they weren't payed for it? Of course not, if the incentive isn't there bang go the hedges and bang go all the wuvvewey wickle animals.

2) Farmers aren't going to employ Marksmen to kill foxes ::) They're going to lay poison and then the darling things will die slowly and painfully.

I know it's not THE BEST! way to deal with them.. but it ain't as bad as some of the alternatives.

I'm for a full on ban. I resent the cruelty of the chase.

So because you don't like it, and because you think it's cruel, it should be banned?  And conservatives are still the ones labeled as "pushing their morals on everybody"?

So because you don't like it, and because you think it's cruel, it should be banned?  And conservatives are still the ones labeled as "pushing their morals on everybody"?


This is very true.

I think a lot of people just plain don't understand what the hunt does.

Awww it hurts wickle animals so it must be nasty.. well then, let's send ya'll off to prison for putting Rat Poison down.

Fox hunting has a history as the sport of toffee-nosed aristocrats who expropriated croft and forest from the peasants in order to ply their wretched liesure.  Although this kind of imperial excess died off rapidly after the First World War, the hunt is still an ugly symbol.
I don't object to hunters helping farmers keep foxes and other predators at bay.

Fox hunting has a history as the sport of toffee-nosed aristocrats who expropriated croft and forest from the peasants in order to ply their wretched liesure. 


A-ha!  The truth comes out!  This whole fox hunting ban is about nothing more than class warfare.

A-ha!  The truth comes out!  This whole fox hunting ban is about nothing more than class warfare.

Erm, not quite.  It's different today.  I was talking more in terms of the hunt being used today by the British aristocracy as a symbol of past glory.  The rules are not the same today as they were two hundred years ago.  Way back when, the landed rich seized millions of acres of countryside as their playgrounds and forbade the peasants from trespassing on it.
If you were a Scottish crofter in 1805, you'd hate the bloody aristocracy too!

If you were a Scottish crofter in 1805, you'd hate the bloody aristocracy too!


One of the problems we have today is too many think they are the aristos.  They define themselves as
middle class when they are working class, many don't know there is even a difference.  I am sure
that GW  fancies himself closer to the mucky mucks then to the mucks.

One of the problems we have today is too many think they are the aristos.  They define themselves as
middle class when they are working class, many don't know there is even a difference.  I am sure
that GW  fancies himself closer to the mucky mucks then to the mucks.

I don't know so much about Britain, but I know here in the U.S. there's plenty of guys clearing six figures a year who still think they're high class.  Dubya and the executive elites think those guys are just a bunch of rabble, and only use them for their vote and their financial support.  As we saw with Enron and the rest of the corporate crooks, when the chips are down, the 100K-a-year types are easily dispensed with!

I don't know so much about Britain, but I know here in the U.S. there's plenty of guys clearing six figures a year who still think they're high class.  Dubya and the executive elites think those guys are just a bunch of rabble, and only use them for their vote and their financial support.  As we saw with Enron and the rest of the corporate crooks, when the chips are down, the 100K-a-year types are easily dispensed with!


Let's not get into this again, remember who pays most of the taxes.  How much bigger would the budget deficit be without rich people?

Let's not get into this again, remember who pays most of the taxes.  How much bigger would the budget deficit be without rich people?

http://leighhouse.typepad.com/blog/images/kool_aid.jpg

Well, people will never agree on what's ethical.  I think killing animals for sport is wasteful and cruel, but I can understand how someone else might not.  And if people feel strongly enough about an ethical principle, I would expect them to defy a law they felt was unethical.  Wouldn't anybody defy a law he or she thought was unjust?

Well, people will never agree on what's ethical.  I think killing animals for sport is wasteful and cruel, but I can understand how someone else might not.  And if people feel strongly enough about an ethical principle, I would expect them to defy a law they felt was unethical.  Wouldn't anybody defy a law he or she thought was unjust?


Now I'm confused, you don't like hunting, I get that.  But do you think it should be legal?

do you think it should be legal?


I don't think so.