Well?

We'll no.. i have an interesting view on Bush you know.. I feel so sorry for him because he is a nice little guy. He is simple that is his problem, Daddy and Daddy's friends got him a nice easy job in the White House but those mean guys who are supposed to help him have decieved him.. ;D

Nah i don't like the guy but it dosen't mean that he is 100% to blame for the things his administration has done. Cheney is by a long shot worse.. Bush is not smart enough to do half the crap that's been done.

Well what?
F**K NO! (of course).
:P

I don't even know if I can stand to watch that stammering cracker give the State of the Union address tonight!

We'll no.. i have an interesting view on Bush you know.. I feel so sorry for him because he is a nice little guy. He is simple that is his problem, Daddy and Daddy's friends got him a nice easy job in the White House but those mean guys who are supposed to help him have decieved him.. ;D

Nah i don't like the guy but it dosen't mean that he is 100% to blame for the things his administration has done. Cheney is by a long shot worse.. Bush is not smart enough to do half the crap that's been done.

Only trouble is, Dubya ain't nice.  He really isn't.
::)

I hate him as a president.  I think he's probably a nice guy, I don't even hate jerks anyway.  But down with him as pres!  And Dick Chimney needs to lose his job!

Only trouble is, Dubya ain't nice.  He really isn't.
::)


Have you spoken to him?

I am going on second hand information but in a discussion i had with David (the man i do some volunteer work with at the Political society in the town i live in ) he said he was charming. Maybe a nice guy was the wrong thing to say but according to dave he came across as actually listening. Of course he got to speak to him for all of about 2 mins and probably just sucked up to him... so until i can verify it i will retract my comment. But look at liddle georgie pordgy.. he wooks sowww inocent. ::)

Have you spoken to him?

I am going on second hand information but in a discussion i had with David (the man i do some volunteer work with at the Political society in the town i live in ) he said he was charming. Maybe a nice guy was the wrong thing to say but according to dave he came across as actually listening. Of course he got to speak to him for all of about 2 mins and probably just sucked up to him... so until i can verify it i will retract my comment. But look at liddle georgie pordgy.. he wooks sowww inocent.  ::)

It's called sociopathy.  Some of the meanest people in the world are terribly charming in person...that's how they get away with being so mean for so long.  Ted Bundy murdered at least 38 women, and everybody who ever met him was ensared by his personal magnetism.  Rupert Murdock oversees Newscorp, a multibillion dollar rightwing media propaganda empire.  From FOX News to the New York Post his media outlets are full of mendacity and venom all in the name of pushing the interests of the super rich.  I had journalism professors who met Murdock and interviewed him.  They said he comes across as a courteous and deferential gentleman who would never do anybody a wrong turn!
In Dubya's case the sociopathy comes from living in the insular world of the power elite all his life.  To him the public is alien.  The people are objects by which to gain political power.  Whether Dubya is personable has nothing to do with the savage outcomes of the policies he pursues.

...hmm...this is really a tough one...still thinking it over...hmm...let me see...hmm...



LMAO!!!!


I will say it. This is the worse president we have had in the history of this country. The economy is in the toliet (just like RSR's avatar), the country is bankrupt, we are at war on two fronts, education is suffering thanks to No Child Left, and if this _____(fill in any word you like) has his way, Grandma and Grandpa won't have anything either. I don't know if this country will survive another four years.




Cat

It's ok.. I'm coming i'm coming...

I'll sort him out lol..

Hey Maybe he'll find Jebus again and decide to turn it all around.. (gufaw)

LMAO!!!!


I will say it. This is the worse president we have had in the history of this country. The economy is in the toliet (just like RSR's avatar), the country is bankrupt, we are at war on two fronts, education is suffering thanks to No Child Left, and if this _____(fill in any word you like) has his way, Grandma and Grandpa won't have anything either. I don't know if this country will survive another four years.

Cat


My thoughts exactly!!!! So, nope!

Tanya

On the state of the union I have three words for the prez:
TALK IS CHEAP!

"The Bush"- for, in all interpretations...

As for George Bush- is he the little bloke who looks (and acts) like the Govenor (played by Mel Brooks) in Blazing Saddles? Give him one of those tennis bats with a ball on a bit of elastic, and let him end his political career working out how to use it, I say. What worries me, is that he already shows signs of Reagan's level of dementia, and he's substantially younger... ::)

TALK IS CHEAP!


So how about results?

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The ranks of Americans lining up to file initial claims for jobless benefits thinned by 9,000 last week, the government said on Thursday in a surprisingly strong report that signaled healthy job growth.

Initial filings for state unemployment aid fell to 316,000 in the week ended Jan. 29, matching a reading seven weeks ago as the second-lowest since before the economy tipped into recession in 2001, the Labor Department (news - web sites) said.

Analysts on Wall Street had expected claims, which provide a rough guide to the pace of layoffs, to rise to 330,000 from the 325,000 reported for the Jan. 22 week

A four-week moving average of claims, which smoothes weekly volatility to provide a better sense of underlying job-market trends, fell by a sharper 10,250 to 331,500, the lowest level since the start of the year and the second lowest since November 2000.

In another upbeat sign for the labor market, the total number of unemployed still on the benefit rolls after an initial week of aid dropped by 116,000 to 2.70 million in the week ended Jan. 22, the latest week for which figures are available.

The decrease in so-called continued claims erased a rise the week before and brought the four-week average of that figure to its lowest level since April 2001.

Claims are at levels economists see as consistent with a solid pace of employment growth. For the second week in a row, the Labor Department said the data appeared free of seasonal anomalies that had skewed reports over the holidays.

Analysts will look closely at a report on January job creation the department will issue on Friday for further clues on the direction of the economy and Federal Reserve (news - web sites) interest-rate policy.

Economists are forecasting a healthy 190,000 gain in nonfarm jobs and see the unemployment rate holding steady at 5.4 percent.

If forecasters are on the mark, the increase in jobs -- coupled with an expected upward annual revision to prior employment levels -- should restore all the jobs erased during the 2001 recession and subsequent jobless recovery, a period in which about 2.7 million jobs were lost.

Link: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=568&ncid=749&e=5&u=/nm/20050203/bs_nm/economy_jobless_dc

Absolutely not. I never did like him, and I never will. :-X

What can I say... I hate the man. He's a bastard. I can't stand to hear his voice, and I even hate answering this question as it is just on of the constant reminders that he IS the president once again. It reminds me of how close we came to fixing it, and it reminds me of our defeat. I'm sad now. :(

And these numbers don't mention the people who have exhusted their benefits, still have no jobs, but are no longer concidered unemployed.

My answer is a resaounding NO!!  His foreign policy is based on gingoist imperialism, his domestic policies are destructive to the environment, the old, the young, the middle class, the working class, and minorities of every stripe.  The man is a walking disaster, worse than the tsunami.

What about all the jobs that are CREATED by people working for THEMSELVES and /or hiring people to work for them??

That could be why they have those figures....out of work people don't just disappear..they find something to do to survive or every time the unemployment rate goes down or else we would see an increase in the crime rate which isn't  happening. 

The resounding talk heard after the speech...until someone can think of anything better,what are we to do?

What about all the jobs that are CREATED by people working for THEMSELVES and /or hiring people to work for them??

That could be why they have those figures....out of work people don't just disappear..they find something to do to survive or every time the unemployment rate goes down or else we would see an increase in the crime rate which isn't  happening. 




Yeah, right.  All those unemployed steel workers are now running small businesses (which will go belly up withiun a year - most do).

You're right though, unemployed people who exhaust their bennies don't disappear, they go on welfare, take their kids out of college, move back in with their parants, get divorced, make the rounds of food shelves, become homeless...  Fact is that the "discouraged worker" effect has been around for decades, but the gov't's attitued is "if we don't count 'em, they aint there".

You're right though, unemployed people who exhaust their bennies don't disappear, they go on welfare, take their kids out of college, move back in with their parants, get divorced, make the rounds of food shelves, become homeless...  Fact is that the "discouraged worker" effect has been around for decades, but the gov't's attitued is "if we don't count 'em, they aint there".


Consider the hundreds of thousands of unemployed men or women who don't claim welfare or don't claim as much as they are entitled to because they have no idea how.

How many of those "jobs" are paying at the same or higher rate as/than the one originally lost?  No matter what, there's something seriously wrong with those numbers if 300000+ per week are filing initial claims for benefits.  That's over 15.6 million people who were unemployed over a 1 year span ???

JOBS is a four-letter word!  Anybody who believes Dubya gives one rat's @ss about jobs for Americans deserves to get laid off so he can have some time to put his head in order!
::)

What can I say... I hate the man. He's a bastard. I can't stand to hear his voice, and I even hate answering this question as it is just on of the constant reminders that he IS the president once again. It reminds me of how close we came to fixing it, and it reminds me of our defeat. I'm sad now.

Sorry I made you sad  :(  I don't hate anybody, but IF I did Bush would be #1. 

I would love to slap the smirk off of his face, but I should not put that in writing as it could be
cause for detention, in an unknown place, for an undetermined amount of time.  So I will add
that I would not do that.  My siblings and I are helping to support my brother, who was special
needs in school and laid off twice in his life.  Once during george the 1st, and once during george
the 2nd.  Unfortunately, the situation for someone in his position is pretty grim.  I was laid off
for a good portion of last year, and this year will have to come up with money to pay the taxes
on my unemployment insurance(brought to you by the Reagan administration).  People are
dying for a lie, seniors are losing benefits(drug program yeah, right), I haven't seen a
reduction in my fed taxes, but I have seen a reduction in federal services, and on and on.

It is so difficult to defend what he does. He actually makes me angry without him doing anything. Being a Yank in england i often recieve the blunt end of comments such as.. 'You guys are dicks.. bush is a dick and so are you!'... to which there really is no good response. (Apart from raising one eyebrow and and smirking knowingly).. these people can't be reasoned with.

He gives all Americans a bad image.. yeah ok say what you will "duh, clinton made us look like adulterers." Ha ok then. Believe that if you will.

I'd rather be an adulterer than a slack jawed, Genocidal, dipsheesh!

Let's look at the man's record shall we..

He has cut Federal spending to Libraries by £39,000,000 'so far'. Yup, cus books are for geeks.
He has cut research grants in to renewable energy by 50%... oh gosh i wonder why?
Pulled out of the Kyoto agreement.. yup cus who cares about this world when..whoooooo we're going to Mars.
All but got rid of the white house AIDS Programs, because hey, it's only them ******s that get AIDS Ain't it?
Cut more than $15,000,000 from programs to help abused children. He wasn't abused so it's fine.
Tried to get rid of the 'Reading is Fundamental' program that gives books to underprivalged Kids. He went to both Harvard and Yale.. they have books there already ???
Spent almost one third of his first year as Preisdent, on Vacation.
Ignored terrorism warnings from the Clinton Administration.
And just this week has decided that NO! veterans who have worked hard can't have all of the money they deserve. Cus he isn't that old yet.

fudge him and the Elephant he rode in on!

Exactamundo.

Yes you made a point that i tried to find some solid facts on but wasn't able to.. Bush has cut funding to many programs for Blacks & Women. Because once again.. they don't matter.

If only those poll results up there were the results on election day...

Being a Yank in england i often recieve the blunt end of comments such as.. 'You guys are dicks.. bush is a dip and so are you!'... to which there really is no good response. (Apart from raising one eyebrow and and smirking knowingly).. these people can't be reasoned with.


Nice to know we've got our fair share of twunts...

Andy, did you notice whether their knuckles were scraping on the floor?!!

Yes, i reffer to them as the Burbberry Classes... there knuckles scrape and they carry there many young on the chests.

twunts...

Good to see someone else speaks Micra. My friend bought one of those cars, it was shiny & bright... ;D

Hey, Alc, your 'Burberry classes' are becoming more 'celebrated' in the UK media. The term 'chav' seems to be bandied about frequently in regard to this. It's almost like it's a new thing, poor people trying to look like Rap & R&B stars- I grew up in South Wales, where this style of dress has long been popular amongst the urban yoof. I took a "How much of a chav are you?" test the other day- I'm ashamed to say I got 62% without even trying...you can take the taff out of Wales, but you can't take Wales out of the taff...

How many of those "jobs" are paying at the same or higher rate as/than the one originally lost?  No matter what, there's something seriously wrong with those numbers if 300000+ per week are filing initial claims for benefits.  That's over 15.6 million people who were unemployed over a 1 year span ???


How should I know what they pay?  But either way, we have 146,000 new jobs, and the unemployment rate in America has fallen from 5.4% to 5.2%!  Take that Clinton!  These new job numbers put Bush in positive job numbers, so the "Bush has lost X number of jobs" can no longer be honestly said by the democrats.

Link: http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article/article?f=/n/a/2005/02/04/national0833EST0035.DTL

Hey, Alc, your 'Burberry classes' are becoming more 'celebrated' in the UK media. The term 'chav' seems to be bandied about frequently in regard to this. It's almost like it's a new thing, poor people trying to look like Rap & R&B stars- I grew up in South Wales, where this style of dress has long been popular amongst the urban yoof. I took a "How much of a chav are you?" test the other day- I'm ashamed to say I got 62% without even trying...you can take the taff out of Wales, but you can't take Wales out of the taff...


I took the test and scored 30odd% so i was fairly pleased with myself. The only reason i didn't get zero is that one of the question was would you modify your vehicle. Yup i wanna jack up my pickup, put a gun rack on and do up the engine so i get more power from it. I think another one was do you own any products made by like Nike, Adidas etc.. well yeah shorts, trainers etc  :P

If you wanna exterminate anybody.. they are a prime target. You could trick them in to it... Yes your chavness you just need to go through that meat grinder and you'll be in the Micra dealership. ;D

against Bush


Yeah I am against Bush, on two issues, but only one of those issues really riles me, see if you can guess (otherwise Bush is perfect, in my opinion):

http://spofga.org/immigration/2004/aug/man_left.gifhttp://spofga.org/immigration/2004/aug/man_left.gifhttp://spofga.org/immigration/2004/aug/man_left.gifhttp://spofga.org/immigration/2004/aug/man_left.gifhttp://spofga.org/immigration/2004/aug/man_left.gifhttp://spofga.org/immigration/2004/aug/man_left.gifhttp://spofga.org/immigration/2004/aug/man_left.gifhttp://spofga.org/immigration/2004/aug/man_left.gifWelcome to the US, all expenses paid by the American Taxpayes!http://spofga.org/immigration/2004/aug/man_left.gifhttp://spofga.org/immigration/2004/aug/man_left.gifhttp://spofga.org/immigration/2004/aug/man_left.gifhttp://spofga.org/immigration/2004/aug/man_left.gifhttp://spofga.org/immigration/2004/aug/man_left.gifhttp://spofga.org/immigration/2004/aug/man_left.gifhttp://spofga.org/immigration/2004/aug/man_left.gifhttp://spofga.org/immigration/2004/aug/man_left.gifhttp://spofga.org/immigration/2004/aug/man_left.gifhttp://spofga.org/immigration/2004/aug/man_left.gifDon't worry illegal Mexicans, even the republican party will take care of you, they want your voteo! >:(http://spofga.org/immigration/2004/aug/man_left.gifhttp://spofga.org/immigration/2004/aug/man_left.gifhttp://spofga.org/immigration/2004/aug/man_left.gifhttp://spofga.org/immigration/2004/aug/man_left.gifhttp://spofga.org/immigration/2004/aug/man_left.gif

Hey, Alc, your 'Burberry classes' are becoming more 'celebrated' in the UK media. The term 'chav' seems to be bandied about frequently in regard to this.


Ah yes, the (shudder...) Chavs - if this is representative of Britain's 'yoof' in this day and age, then Gawd help us all...

Pitiful...

It's about a 50/50 split. Half of us are like them, about 48% like them and about 2% like me  ;)

How should I know what they pay?  But either way, we have 146,000 new jobs, and the unemployment rate in America has fallen from 5.4% to 5.2%!  Take that Clinton!  These new job numbers put Bush in positive job numbers, so the "Bush has lost X number of jobs" can no longer be honestly said by the democrats.

Link: http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article/article?f=/n/a/2005/02/04/national0833EST0035.DTL

Yes, and here's why the numbers dipped:

"U.S. employers added just 146,000 jobs in January, the government said on Friday in an unexpectedly weak report on the labor market, but a drop in job-seekers pushed the unemployment rate to its lowest level in more than three years. "
--Reuters
http://olympics.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=businessNews&storyID=7541220


Meanwhile, deficits are at a record high because of a war of choice and Bush giving away the store in the form of tax cuts for the rich he's vowed to make permanent.  If he gets his way--even partially--on social security privatization, the conversion process will cost a trillion, maybe more, when all is said and done.
Like I said, anybody who thinks Bush is President to help Americans get good jobs ought to have his head examined.

You don't REALLY want to bring up comparisons between the Clinton economy and the Bush economy, do you?  I know some on the Right--your Hannity-type nincompoops--still try to blame Clinton for the recession and 9/11.  But, hey, that's the propaganda business.

I would love to slap the smirk off of his face, but I should not put that in writing as it could be
cause for detention, in an unknown place, for an undetermined amount of time. 


I have said that several times myself. And don't worry about spending time in detention. Carlos, Max, and I will keep you company.  ;)




Cat

Yes, and here's why the numbers dipped:

"U.S. employers added just 146,000 jobs in January, the government said on Friday in an unexpectedly weak report on the labor market, but a drop in job-seekers pushed the unemployment rate to its lowest level in more than three years. "
--Reuters
http://olympics.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=businessNews&storyID=7541220


Good old Reuters spining and making a negative story out of everything.

Wonder if they would have wrote the same thing if that dam* Clinton was still President.

Wonder if they would have wrote the same thing if that dam* Clinton was still President.


yes

yes


I doubt it.

Good old Reuters spining and making a negative story out of everything.

Wonder if they would have wrote do you mean "written?) the same thing if that dam* Clinton was still President.


Fact is that your rosy stats, as I have said several times before, and you consistantly fail to understand, are based on current claims for unemployment, which have only a tenuous relationship to the acctual number of people without jobs.  So it is hardly "spin" when Reuters points out the other side of Lil' Georgie's "spin" on the stats.

Oh, and by the way, I still wonder if you actually ever read either Adman Smith or Karl Marx, both of who you occasionally claim to paraphrase but never really quote.

I voted for against.

Good old Reuters spining and making a negative story out of everything.

Wonder if they would have wrote the same thing if that dam* Clinton was still President.

Well your guys don't wanna state the whole truth!  There's a difference between saying "Good news! Your friend is out of the hospital!," and saying "Your friend is finally out of the hospital...he's in the funeral parlor."
The first is the one you would definitely want to hear, though the statement by itself does not rule the second and decidedly worse scenario.
::)

Yeah I am against Bush, on two issues, but only one of those issues really riles me, see if you can guess (otherwise Bush is perfect, in my opinion):

http://spofga.org/immigration/2004/aug/man_left.gifI'm a racist. >:(http://spofga.org/immigration/2004/aug/man_left.gif


<accusative sarcasm>
Oh good heavens, what would we do with even more of those awful, hardworking Mexicans? I supposed we'd have to resort to cannibalism or something because, as the richest country in the world, we certainly don't have the resources to feed them, or enough shhhty jobs for them to take because no American would ever take them. But most of all, I'm just tired of seeing so many brown people... I mean, we can't get rid of the Blacks, but we sure can nip the Hispanic problem in the butt before it gets out of hand.
</accusative sarcasm>

<accusative sarcasm>
Oh good heavens, what would we do with even more of those awful, hardworking Mexicans? I supposed we'd have to resort to cannibalism or something because, as the richest country in the world, we certainly don't have the resources to feed them, or enough shhhty jobs for them to take because no American would ever take them. But most of all, I'm just tired of seeing so many brown people... I mean, we can't get rid of the Blacks, but we sure can nip the Hispanic problem in the butt before it gets out of hand.
</accusative sarcasm>


The race card.....it needs no more words.

<sarcasm>
Oh dear, why shouldn't we let all these LAW-abiding ILLEGAL aliens in our country who take up nearly 30% of our jails, to take jobs Americans really don't want, yet they somehow wanted fifty years ago.  Surely the states who have to pay their way, can afford to stretch their over-strected budgets to pay for services and give the illegal aliens drivers' licenses and the right to vote and make them no different than the average American citizen, except of course, they don't pay taxes.  We all know they are all hard working gardeners, and who cares if the illegals are now shooting at our border patrol daily, who cares if our nation's borders, language, and culture dies.  I want us all to be one big fricking happy world doing the macarena.  But most of all, I hate those darn white people who gave Bush 88% of his vote in the last election, so I want more illegals, and I'll say I have mexican friends if you say anything about me just like the old KKK of the south 50 years ago.
<sarcasm off>

The race card.....it needs no more words.

<sarcasm>
Oh dear, why shouldn't we let all these LAW-abiding ILLEGAL aliens in our country who take up nearly 30% of our jails, to take jobs Americans really don't want, yet they somehow wanted fifty years ago. 

Nearly 30% of what jails where?  If you're trying to suggest illegal aliens are better than one quarter of the entire incarcerated population of the U.S., you're off you your rocker!

The race card.....it needs no more words.

<sarcasm>
Oh dear, why shouldn't we let all these LAW-abiding ILLEGAL aliens in our country who take up nearly 30% of our jails, to take jobs Americans really don't want, yet they somehow wanted fifty years ago.  Surely the states who have to pay their way, can afford to stretch their over-strected budgets to pay for services and give the illegal aliens drivers' licenses and the right to vote and make them no different than the average American citizen, except of course, they don't pay taxes.  We all know they are all hard working gardeners, and who cares if the illegals are now shooting at our border patrol daily, who cares if our nation's borders, language, and culture dies.  I want us all to be one big fricking happy world doing the macarena.  But most of all, I hate those darn white people who gave Bush 88% of his vote in the last election, so I want more illegals, and I'll say I have mexican friends if you say anything about me just like the old KKK of the south 50 years ago.
<sarcasm off>


If you want to help Bush (God forbid!) you'll have to be less obnoxious about it.  People will be moved more. 
Because in all honestly you're just hurting your man's agenda by playing all Republican stereotypes (I despise Bush as a president, but there are many friendly conservatives along with the uptight cold ones that speak the loudest).

Just A Suggestion.  :)

-FHF

The race card.....it needs no more words.


http://spofga.org/immigration/current/images/bush-sombrero_2.jpg


So this isn't playing the race card?

You need to remember that with lots of Mexican Americans, they didn't cross the boarder, the vboarder crossed them - in many cases to their detriment, and we Puerto Ricans were made citizens by act of Congress, just in time to be drafted for WWI.  So don't tell us to abandon our language or our heritage.  If you gringos were so willing to force us into your state, you (collectively) should at least tolerate our culture.  But I guess you see us as your "little brown btothers".  What BS, what hypocracy.  No personal affront intended, you just need to read some history.

I see the poll has closed.  I would have voted for "who cares?"

On the issue of issues, I agree with GWBush's assessment of the President's immigration policy (close the danged borders already, geez) and on everyone's assessment of the gay marriage ban (let them be gay and happy and stuff, who does it hurt?).

I have noticed that this board is staunchly liberal, although I have also conceded that many people on both sides have valid points, although they express them to the extremes and aren't always nice about it.

By the way, privatization of Social Security is a good thing.  I hope it happens so people rely less on the government and more on themselves.  The only way government should help you is in setting up the account--the rest should be up to you.

By the way, privatization of Social Security is a good thing.  I hope it happens so people rely less on the government and more on themselves.  The only way government should help you is in setting up the account--the rest should be up to you.

I wish the UK policy was more like this. I've been a full-time taxpayer for 17 years now- can't get an NHS (state subsidised) dentist, have to pay full-whack for prescription medication, can't get additional assistance with my medical problems without funding it myself. I once had to leave a job for medical reasons; due to some cock-up with my employer, I then had to wait 6 weeks before being able to claim £20 a week from the state, resulting in me becoming homeless. If you're homeless in the UK, it's very difficult to get a job. I then had to endure 6 months at that pay level (actually, I didn't make it- due to some good friends helping me out, I got a job before the 6 months was up.). Point is that I've paid around a third of my wages in tax & so-called National Insurance for all my adult life, yet I can't access benefits at the level of someone who's never paid a penny into the system. It's not just cash we're talking here, either- I'm talking free dental care, rent paid, free prescription medicines, levies on other taxes, child benefit etc. Whilst I realise there will always be people who contribute more than others in a society, it angers me that those who contribute nothing get showered with gifts of my hard-earned money, and when I need a break from the state I'm treated with disdain & indifference. I'd be happier if we had a more clear-cut system, perhaps one where you are given a number of credits for however much National Insurance you have paid, then when you need something back from the state, you claim against those credits.

It's not just cash we're talking here, either- I'm talking free dental care, rent paid, free prescription medicines, levies on other taxes, child benefit etc.

just a small point.  child benefit isn't means tested, anyone with children under 16 gets it.

I wish the UK policy was more like this. I've been a full-time taxpayer for 17 years now- can't get an NHS (state subsidised) dentist, have to pay full-whack for prescription medication, can't get additional assistance with my medical problems without funding it myself. I once had to leave a job for medical reasons; due to some cock-up with my employer, I then had to wait 6 weeks before being able to claim £20 a week from the state, resulting in me becoming homeless. If you're homeless in the UK, it's very difficult to get a job. I then had to endure 6 months at that pay level (actually, I didn't make it- due to some good friends helping me out, I got a job before the 6 months was up.). Point is that I've paid around a third of my wages in tax & so-called National Insurance for all my adult life, yet I can't access benefits at the level of someone who's never paid a penny into the system. It's not just cash we're talking here, either- I'm talking free dental care, rent paid, free prescription medicines, levies on other taxes, child benefit etc. Whilst I realise there will always be people who contribute more than others in a society, it angers me that those who contribute nothing get showered with gifts of my hard-earned money, and when I need a break from the state I'm treated with disdain & indifference. I'd be happier if we had a more clear-cut system, perhaps one where you are given a number of credits for however much National Insurance you have paid, then when you need something back from the state, you claim against those credits.

This is one of the hardest questions about health care subsidies.  Ideally, citizens who work hard for their pay should harbor no resentment against less fortunate people who can't make a living one way or the other.  One should recognize the need for health care access regardless of income as a necessary public health measure. 
Then again, the market mentality creeps in.  Consumers ask, "why do I have to pay for service X when I'd get service X for free if I was a lazy immigrant?"  I know it sounds ugly, but that's what it comes down to.
To add insult to injury, in some places taxpayers find themselves subsidizing services for the poor which they can't afford themselves because they would have to buy them on the free market.
How to reconcile the notion of a healthcare "right" with the exigencies of the market is a difficult logistical and ethical question.
Neither extreme will do.  I don't believe it's moral to go totally libertarian and say "you have no right to anything, you can only have what you can buy on the free market."  Yet it is unrealistic to go to the far left and demand all market forces be divorced from healthcare.
I guess that's one for another thread.

I'm totally for Bush.

The race card.....it needs no more words.

<sarcasm>
Oh dear, why shouldn't we let all these LAW-abiding ILLEGAL aliens in our country who take up nearly 30% of our jails, to take jobs Americans really don't want, yet they somehow wanted fifty years ago.  Surely the states who have to pay their way, can afford to stretch their over-strected budgets to pay for services and give the illegal aliens drivers' licenses and the right to vote and make them no different than the average American citizen, except of course, they don't pay taxes.  We all know they are all hard working gardeners, and who cares if the illegals are now shooting at our border patrol daily, who cares if our nation's borders, language, and culture dies.  I want us all to be one big fricking happy world doing the macarena.  But most of all, I hate those darn white people who gave Bush 88% of his vote in the last election, so I want more illegals, and I'll say I have mexican friends if you say anything about me just like the old KKK of the south 50 years ago.
<sarcasm off>

http://spofga.org/immigration/current/images/bush-sombrero_2.jpg


Don't try to weasle out of it. It's true. I know your type thoroughly, pal. I live in Texas, remember? The place is chock-full of your kind. I know hundreds of 'em. It took me a while to be sure, but I got your number now and I'm certain of it. I don't see any reason in beating around the Bush <;)> Having all your previous posts that I have read in mind, I have reason to think you are a passive racist. I think you have deep-seated racial prejudices which have been instilled in you since childhood, and I wouldn't be surprised if you polished off the occaisional N-word around your like-minded, White friends. You probably think that the real meaning of the N-word is someone who is lazy and dirty, etc... (it's not).

You feel that your Anglo culture and language are threatened by Spanish and its 16 million plus native speakers in this country. You probably didn't know that the US has no official language.

The picture you posted didn't help. And BTW, whoever photoshopped that thing doesn't have very good Spanish. I don't even speak it and I know that "Unio' Estados" is completely wrong. Los Estados Unidos =the United States, FYI. Not that you care.

just a small point.  child benefit isn't means tested, anyone with children under 16 gets it.

Yep, perhaps not a great example for all people. The mother of my child claims this fraudulently (as she is not resident in the UK), puts nothing into the UK economy, yet also claims maintenance, which I have been legally forced to pay. Due to the state of disorganisation of the Child Support Agency, I am not even afforded their assistance in investigating this (I have sent 3 letters so far, but got no reply), whereas as soon as I missed one (fraudulently claimed) maintenance payment, I got threatening letters from them! It's almost like they're only interested in revenue collection- I'm paying for their service, yet they can't be bothered to investigate the fact that this woman is defrauding both them & me; all they're bothered about is that they're getting my money, which I'd rather pay into a fund for when (if) my daughter comes back into the country. This is another example of those who pay nothing into the UK economy being afforded all it's benefits (my ex returns here whenever she needs hospital treatment), yet a taxpayer like myself gets no help when the state aids someone in defrauding me.  >:(

Having all your previous posts that I have read in mind, I have reason to think you are a passive racist. I think you have deep-seated racial prejudices which have been instilled in you since childhood, and I wouldn't be surprised if you polished off the occasional N-word around your like-minded, White friends.

The picture you posted didn't help. And BTW, whoever photoshopped that thing doesn't have very good Spanish. I don't even speak it and I know that "Unio' Estados" is completely wrong. Los Estados Unidos =the United States, FYI. Not that you care.


I try very hard to give the benefit of a doubt to people talking differing political opinions, and the above opinion is something I have resisted posting.  I would say quite a few are in agreement with you on this.

Don't try to weasle out of it. It's true. I know your type thoroughly, pal. I live in Texas, remember? The place is chock-full of your kind. I know hundreds of 'em. It took me a while to be sure, but I got your number now and I'm certain of it. I don't see any reason in beating around the Bush <;)> Having all your previous posts that I have read in mind, I have reason to think you are a passive racist. I think you have deep-seated racial prejudices which have been instilled in you since childhood, and I wouldn't be surprised if you polished off the occaisional N-word around your like-minded, White friends. You probably think that the real meaning of the N-word is someone who is lazy and dirty, etc... (it's not).



That is a very serious charge to be making without any real proof.  I have written nothing of any kind to be called a racist or intolerant by somebody like you, who has been doing nothing but bashing Christian conservatives from day one.

I really hope you don't think everyone who is fully against all forms of illegal immigration is a racist.

And for the record, New York currently has more racists and intolerant people than Texas ever did.

And for the record, New York currently has more rascists and intolerant people than Texas ever did.


I would say there are racists everywhere, I'm not sure if it is possible to quantify them in any one
area.

I would say there are racists everywhere



I know, and I agree.  I'm just sick of people like McDonald acting like every rascist in America lives in Georgia, South Carolina, North Carolina, Tennessee, Virginia, West Virginia, Missouri, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, Texas, Arkansas, and Kentucky.

I know, and I agree.  I'm just sick of people like McDonald acting like every racist in America lives in Georgia, South Carolina, North Carolina, Tennessee, Alabama, Virginia, West Virginia, Missouri, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, Texas, Arkansas, and Kentucky.


When I read your posts it does appear to me that the way you see him categorizing racism in the context
of southern states is much the same as the way you categorize immigrants legal or otherwise.

Racism is a universal thing.

In my somewhat limited travels in the states the only racists i came across were in Chicago. One was a cab driver (says it all) the other was a guy who was looking out of the Hancock tower and said.. "That's where all those ******s live". Here in england there are racists in every walk of life. My Generation seems far more Racist than my parents because of the way Political corectness has been forced down our throats.

It is ridiculous saying that Racists just live in the south, or in specific areas. Racism is a disease just like AIDS or Cancer or a common cold. It affects all sorts of people all over the place.

My Generation seems far more Racist than my parents because of the way Political corectness has been forced down our throats.

It is ridiculous saying that Racists just live in the south, or in specific areas. Racism is a disease just like AIDS or Cancer or a common cold. It affects all sorts of people all over the place.


I don't feel your generation is more racist.  Before the sixties it was acceptable, now people are much
more open to examining there own predjudices, and do not ascribe stereotypes quite as easily as
before.  That at least is a start.

That is a very serious charge to be making without any real proof.  I have written nothing of any kind to be called a racist or intolerant by somebody like you, who has been doing nothing but bashing Christian conservatives from day one.

I really hope you don't think everyone who is fully against all forms of illegal immigration is a racist.

And for the record, New York currently has more rascists and intolerant people than Texas ever did.


What a lot of rot. Just because you have never posted verbatim "I am a racist," doesn't mean that you haven't given yourself away by several other posts. I make a habit of reading between the lines. Like I said before, I know hundreds of people just like you and it's only from experience with these people and patient observation of your subject matter that I am able to confidently suggest that you are passively racist. I'm not saying you brandish a white cap every Saturday and go out lynching interracial couples, a passive racist is one who just thinks like a bit of a racist and talks like one, but never acts upon it outright. In fact, he usually denies it even to himself.

I would hardly call my criticism of Right-Wing, Christian fundamentalism "bashing" of any sort. I have a profound respect for people who are truly Christian, and who do not preach hate and intolerance to their congregations and instill it in their children. You seem to have trouble believeing that forgiveness, kindness, tolerance, brotherly love... etc, even have a place in Christ's teachings, and if that is true then I maintain that you have seriously missed the point. I don't care what organisation one belongs to, teaching hate and intolerance to impressionable adults or children is a bad thing, and I reserve the right to criticise such practises heavily. I'll do it with neo-nazis, I'll do it with fundamentalist Islamists, with fundamentalist Christians, with dangerous radicals left or right. They all work against a functional, diverse society. I'm critical of a lot of things, but at least I'm not a racist, passive or active.

Using your logic, because you are a White male who I am criticising, I am bashing all White people right now. Makes a whole lot of sense. Whatever. It doesn't really matter, for I was just the one who took the leap and posted what so many other people were thinking.

Illegal immigration has little to do with the higher issue.

I'm not going to get involved with the racism thing here and stick to the question..................

For or Against?

UK Headlines when Bush re-elected:

How can 59 million people be so Stupid?

How true!

I know, and I agree.  I'm just sick of people like McDonald acting like every rascist in America lives in Georgia, South Carolina, North Carolina, Tennessee, Virginia, West Virginia, Missouri, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, Texas, Arkansas, and Kentucky.

No, only the ones who pronounce it "rascist."
:D