^ Although I never read that, it doesn't surprise that those are the reasons... Especially the economic reasons.

It's impossible to "overdose" on marijuana, believe you me! 
:D

Seriously, you cannot "overdose" on pot in the sense you can "overdose" on heroin or cocaine.  It does not cause organ failure or death.  The worst that can happen if you smoke too much at once is a terrifying panic attack, which is a uniquely horrible sensation.  There's nothing quite like a major panic attack.  I quit smoking pot altogether for twelve years because of this.  If you have psychiatric issues of any kind, it's better to stay away from marijuana.  Furthermore, if you have difficulty getting motivated or organized, stay off the grass!
8)

I agree with AL-B about ciggies.  I don't smoke cigarettes and I never have.  However, I don't make it my business to criticize others for smoking.  Smoking is very bad for you.  Every smoker knows this already unless he's a total idiot.  I consume products I know are bad for me, such as refined sugars, saturated fats, and hydrogenated oils, and I don't like nosey people giving me unsolicited advice; therefore, it's only fair that I leave cigarette smokers alone.

this poll on the top is funny how it only gives u the choices don't know, pot, or both. where the hell is one thats just cigs????????? anyways if u get nonlaced weed i would said no fudgein doubt its better then cigs becuase there isn't radioactive chemicals added in the sheesh. yes maybe more tar in marijuana but ill take that any day over radioactive sheesh. and whoever had the hemp comments there is one thing wrong with using it to make paper and all that, nd its the fact u can't tell which seeds are goin to be male or female, yes u can feminize seeds nd always get a female plant but i haven't heard of anyone being able to do the same for the male hemp. also aside from hemp being great for paper/plastics its also the strongest natural plant for rope. so why don't we use hemp for all this good sheesh well probably the same reason we dont use the electric car for all of its good sheesh, because the government and all these other wealthy fudgeers(companies) only care about makin money for themselves and nothin of the earth nd all the trees that take 10+ years to grow that we use to make paper with when a marijuana plant takes 3 months and can be done sooner usin hydro/aeroponics grow styles. but anyways how many chemicals are u really inhaling from smoking weed besides thc, some cannabinoids, and off course some carbondioxide, which cigs give too plus nicotine nd these fudgeed up chemicals they add in some for god only knows y, nd nicotine which they add more of in it is already naturally produced in tobacco so shouldn't that be enough fudge

I'm very questionable about it.

Marijuana makes you feel more relaxed, whereas tobacco could stress you.

But...we all die someday!

But...we all die someday!
not me. i feel bad for all YOU guys, though.

I'm very questionable about it.

Marijuana makes you feel more relaxed, whereas tobacco could stress you.



Depends on the person.  Pot gives some people serious anxiety attacks while millions of people stand out in the cold and rain every day because they're too stressed to get through the workday without five butt breaks.

In my opinion and experiance cigs are a stimulant.  Pot relaxes me and also makes me act a little weird.  I also find that I become sick when I smoke cigs, not with pot.  I have a tendency to stay away from both.

if you have alzheimer's disease and fall asleep while smoking either will kill you.

if you have alzheimer's disease and fall asleep while smoking either will kill you.
...or just falling asleep while smoking...

if you have alzheimer's disease and fall asleep while smoking either will kill you.

That could actually be an argument against legalization: cigarettes are carefully formulated to keep smouldering and not go out if you stop puffing - nine times out of ten a home-rolled joint will stop burning if you don't keep taking puffs.  So a cigarette is far more likely to set things alight if you forget about it.  If pot were legalized, and the ciggie companies got in on the act, you can guarantee they'd sell ones which did the same thing (after all, you need to buy more for the same effect that way, so they'd make more money).

But that's a very weak anti-legalization argument when compared to the strength of the case for making it legal.

i guess by now you all know i'm anti-pot.  i'm a smoker, but I am not condoning it.  it's bad.  and both are for stupid reasons.

That could actually be an argument against legalization: cigarettes are carefully formulated to keep smouldering and not go out if you stop puffing - nine times out of ten a home-rolled joint will stop burning if you don't keep taking puffs.  So a cigarette is far more likely to set things alight if you forget about it.  If pot were legalized, and the ciggie companies got in on the act, you can guarantee they'd sell ones which did the same thing (after all, you need to buy more for the same effect that way, so they'd make more money).

But that's a very weak anti-legalization argument when compared to the strength of the case for making it legal.



Vermont now has a law that the cig companies have to sell cigs that go out if you stop puffing. I find that they went out when they shouldn't have and didn't go out when they should have.  :-\\


FYI: it has been about 7 months now since I have had a cig.




Cat

FYI: it has been about 7 months now since I have had a cig.




Cat

Congrats Cat!  Keep up the good work!

FYI: it has been about 7 months now since I have had a cig.




Cat


8) 8) 8)

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http://forum.pc-freakz.com/style_emoticons/default/clapping.gif


:)

Vermont now has a law that the cig companies have to sell cigs that go out if you stop puffing. I find that they went out when they shouldn't have and didn't go out when they should have.  :-\\


FYI: it has been about 7 months now since I have had a cig.




Cat
Well done!

Vermont now has a law that the cig companies have to sell cigs that go out if you stop puffing. I find that they went out when they shouldn't have and didn't go out when they should have.  :-\\


FYI: it has been about 7 months now since I have had a cig.




Cat

Allright! Congratulations!

Congrats Cat!  Keep up the good work!




8) 8) 8)

http://forum.pc-freakz.com/style_emoticons/default/wtg.gif


http://forum.pc-freakz.com/style_emoticons/default/clapping.gif


:)




Well done!



Allright! Congratulations!



Thanks all. I'll be updating my "quit" thread in a few days.



Cat

At the risk of adding excessively to the congratulations... well done, Cat & keep it up :)

Vermont have legislated that cigarettes sold there have to go out if not puffed?  That must cause some headaches for the manufacturers, who'll have to come up with a different formulation for one state only (I can't see them changing things for all ciggies, somehow)

At the risk of adding excessively to the congratulations... well done, Cat & keep it up :)




Thanks. I couldn't have done it alone. Carlos has also quit cigs, too (but still smokes a pipe  :-\\ ).



Cat

I read every comment in this thread. I must say I felt compelled to volley a comment. I know what Cigarettes does to the lungs. It creates this itch which could be interpreated as "craving". It is like mind over matter thing. I am feeling a craving to smoke to satisify this itch in my lungs. I know I won't get the buzz like Weed does. I am feeling like i need to itch the lungs like a back stratcher. Cigarettes will weaken my running abilities but, it might have some positive effect that is probably trival. I hate this feeling of itch, because, it is addiction to nicotine. Shortness of breath comes from cigarettes, not these juicy weeds. I would have to agree with that person who said cigarette is the greater evil than, weed.  I am still feeling the itch from previous smoking experiences. I better concentrate on letting that itch fade but, it would be like mediating, i suppose. I can see why people smoke a pack a day, to satisfy this meaningless itch that's physical in the lungs. Filling your lungs with smoke soothes the lungs in the wrong way and, way the tabacco companies want. "They" want me to destroy my lungs from my own nicotine glutting. Yes, I must say I am tempted by no fault of my own to soothe myself. Weed is definitely more cleaner and, provides a buzz like winning an award from a cereal box. There people who can handle the smoke and, compress them into diamonds. Smoky color Diamonds. Sorry, the diamond referance didn't make much sense, i guess it is a way to be melodramatic. Smoking cigarettes is a sore, but it can help you with chores. However, the last thing you want to be is dependant on these nicotine madness. It feels like i am doing a paint job in my throat and, in my lungs. Getting addicted to cigarettes is a major bummer. I am trying to sweat the budding addiction away. It is hard task.  ;).  I really wish that i had all the drugs i needed and, there is no shame in admitting that. It is true that companies felt entitled to fk us up then, we should feel justified to get the drugs we need in whatever amount to, soothe this itch, the craving they had given us like a ice cube on swollen injuries. People become alcoholic and, depend on alcohol to sort of, quench their thirst, while providing a buzz. I would like to think that getting drunk is a major hairy thing, it is just nasty and it is like being on a balance beam. People do drink hard to purposedly fk themselves up. Welcome to the American Torture. Sometimes, you just gotta be pissed off with what your addictions are doing with you. However, I am not really pissed off. Really. I am just feeling upset and, kinda feeling spoiled from these nasty addictions. What i am categorizing is that there are all type of ways to spoil somebody. There is the "Rich Spoil" which we all envy. There are the "Nasty Spoils" which comes from somebody with tougher luck. I mean, what doesn't hurt you makes you harder.  I just hate cigarettes, I swear it would be the last cigarettes pack I would smoke for years to come. The rasta lifestyle which involves weed comes with a true inner peace and jovial nature. It is like cigarettes are residues of the major weed binge I had.  I detest cigarettes, yet, I crave for them. Why? Is that some kind of a beasty nature? If there were no consequences  with smoking cigarettes, if you have a clean bill to fk your lungs up, people will do it more often, smoke more often with a reckless abandon. Although, I would watch warily on how heavy smokers look at people who never had a single smoke in their life. They probably want to snatch organs and, they do that in other countries, India, actually. It is pretty lousy that America aren't legalizing the Weed. I just need to look for herbal bars, I guess. I used to chew tabacco, i guess in a bad way, it multiplies the craving. Well, this nicotine sponge really puzzles me, i mean, if it is nicotine that people are interested in, why aren't they squeezing nicotine juice  out these tabacco leafs and, make a reputed profit out of it. We aren't that mindless, arent we?  Yep. The last pack of Cigarettes, i Swear.

I read every comment in this thread. I must say I felt compelled to volley a comment. I know what Cigarettes does to the lungs. It creates this itch which could be interpreated as "craving". It is like mind over matter thing. I am feeling a craving to smoke to satisify this itch in my lungs. I know I won't get the buzz like Weed does. I am feeling like i need to itch the lungs like a back stratcher. Cigarettes will weaken my running abilities but, it might have some positive effect that is probably trival. I hate this feeling of itch, because, it is addiction to nicotine. Shortness of breath comes from cigarettes, not these juicy weeds. I would have to agree with that person who said cigarette is the greater evil than, weed.  I am still feeling the itch from previous smoking experiences. I better concentrate on letting that itch fade but, it would be like mediating, i suppose. I can see why people smoke a pack a day, to satisfy this meaningless itch that's physical in the lungs. Filling your lungs with smoke soothes the lungs in the wrong way and, way the tabacco companies want. "They" want me to destroy my lungs from my own nicotine glutting. Yes, I must say I am tempted by no fault of my own to soothe myself. Weed is definitely more cleaner and, provides a buzz like winning an award from a cereal box. There people who can handle the smoke and, compress them into diamonds. Smoky color Diamonds. Sorry, the diamond referance didn't make much sense, i guess it is a way to be melodramatic. Smoking cigarettes is a sore, but it can help you with chores. However, the last thing you want to be is dependant on these nicotine madness. It feels like i am doing a paint job in my throat and, in my lungs. Getting addicted to cigarettes is a major bummer. I am trying to sweat the budding addiction away. It is hard task.  ;).  I really wish that i had all the drugs i needed and, there is no shame in admitting that. It is true that companies felt entitled to fk us up then, we should feel justified to get the drugs we need in whatever amount to, soothe this itch, the craving they had given us like a ice cube on swollen injuries. People become alcoholic and, depend on alcohol to sort of, quench their thirst, while providing a buzz. I would like to think that getting drunk is a major hairy thing, it is just nasty and it is like being on a balance beam. People do drink hard to purposedly fk themselves up. Welcome to the American Torture. Sometimes, you just gotta be pissed off with what your addictions are doing with you. However, I am not really pissed off. Really. I am just feeling upset and, kinda feeling spoiled from these nasty addictions. What i am categorizing is that there are all type of ways to spoil somebody. There is the "Rich Spoil" which we all envy. There are the "Nasty Spoils" which comes from somebody with tougher luck. I mean, what doesn't hurt you makes you harder.  I just hate cigarettes, I swear it would be the last cigarettes pack I would smoke for years to come. The rasta lifestyle which involves weed comes with a true inner peace and jovial nature. It is like cigarettes are residues of the major weed binge I had.  I detest cigarettes, yet, I crave for them. Why? Is that some kind of a beasty nature? If there were no consequences  with smoking cigarettes, if you have a clean bill to fk your lungs up, people will do it more often, smoke more often with a reckless abandon. Although, I would watch warily on how heavy smokers look at people who never had a single smoke in their life. They probably want to snatch organs and, they do that in other countries, India, actually. It is pretty lousy that America aren't legalizing the Weed. I just need to look for herbal bars, I guess. I used to chew tabacco, i guess in a bad way, it multiplies the craving. Well, this nicotine sponge really puzzles me, i mean, if it is nicotine that people are interested in, why aren't they squeezing nicotine juice  out these tabacco leafs and, make a reputed profit out of it. We aren't that mindless, arent we?  Yep. The last pack of Cigarettes, i Swear.




I hear ya. I quit almost 9 months ago and I am still craving. PM me if you want some advice.



Cat

I have to say it is Marijuanna.

My son smokes, and I smoke.  He smokes pot and has for years, I have not touched it since 1981.

He has been in and out of jail for 5 years now.  Every charge has been related to his drug use, either possession, or theft to pay for drugs.

My cigarettes have never led me to break the law.  I have never had a craving so bad that I was willing to commit a crime to get another smoke.  But he has broken the law many times to get money for his drugs (he just was not always caught doing them).

Cigarettes cigarettes cigarettes
Pass me a joint anytime

I just quit smoking cigs 12 days ago. It is addicting... no doubt about it. Kicking it has been one of the hardest things I've  ever done. I crave it all the time. Well at first I did, its not so bad anymore
I smoked weed for a lot of years and never had the craving  obsessive thoughts, or side effects I do from cigarettes.
Most info about pot is propaganda don't believe it. Is your son only being busted for pot or are other drugs involved too?
I have craved cigs so badly when I was smoking that I had considered stealing them.
Yes I know we are told it is a gateway drug to harder things, perhaps it is and maybe it depends on the person. I have smoked weed for about 37 yrs. When I was a kid I tried LSD, and Quaalude's. But I grew and don't regret having those experiences. I also shared my wilder days with my children and guess what? None of them use drugs and they are 25,23,and 17. One does smoke cigarettes though the youngest.

I also think it is a disgrace that insurance companies will not pay to help people quit smoking, but would rather pay for  canacer treatments COPD and so forth.

I think cigarettes should be made illegal and pot made legal. I also think it is a disgrace that insurance companies will not pay to help people quit smoking, but would rather pay for  canacer treatments COPD and so forth. At least pot has some medical use.
All cigs do is make tobacco companies richer, oh and kill people. My beautiful, wonderful Mother died in my arms  from COPD in Jan :\'(, and she never smoked a day in her life, but was surrounded by smokers. Me included

He has been in and out of jail for 5 years now.  Every charge has been related to his drug use, either possession,


Then may I humbly suggest that the root cause of the problem isn't the drug, but the banning of the drug.

Pound for pound, smoldering nicotine and smoldering cannabis leaves are going to do about the same amount of damage to one's lungs.  But even the most hardened THC user's going to fall asleep long before he even comes close to smoking a pack-a-day habit of a nicotine user. 

I've got no dog in this fight.  I don't use THC or nicotine.  My drugs of choice are caffeine and alcohol.  I dress it up by being picky about where my beans come from, and the duration of the roast; about where the hops came from, and wanting lots of them in my beer; about where my grapes came from.  But it's the same stupid cycle as cocaine/heroin junkies -- stimulants in the morning for a productive day at work, and depressants in the evening to unwind from the stimulants.  The only reason I'm not in jail for it is because my drugs of choice happen to be legal. 

or theft to pay for drugs.

And the only reason I'm not in jail for that is because legality ensures that (because they're legal) my drugs of choice are also dirt cheap.

I happen to prefer ales to lagers, which are relatively easy for even the first-time homebrewer to make at home.  I can't beat the quality of our local craft brewers (who charge a whopping $5 for a 22-oz bottle, which lasts me an entire evening), but I can make a drinkable ale for less than the price of the cheapest Bud Lite.  That's cheaper than bottled water.

The reason I don't make my own other intoxicants is because it's bloody hard to make good whisky and wine, and because I live thousands of miles away from where coffee grows.

But if anyone could grow pot without fear of legal repercussions, who would frequent the dealer?  It's easier to grow pot than it is to make beer.  It's called weed for a reason.

I have never had a craving so bad that I was willing to commit a crime to get another smoke.

Are you sure?

During Prohibition, plenty of responsible adults frequented the speakeasies, even though they wouldn't be caught dead with a bottle in the house.  They weren't addicts (alcoholics), but by the laws of their day, they were criminals.  When smoking is outlawed, only outlaws will smoke.

And as for adulterants and other addictive substances (something you didn't address in this post, but which you correctly pointed out in another post) being laced into one's drug of choice by the friendly neighborhood dirtbag dealer?  Well, since the disposable cup costs more than the coffee in it, adding even legalized cocaine to it (you know, like Coca-(hint-hint)-Cola used to do) would still probably lower my local coffee shop's (or soda bottler's) margins, so I'm not exactly worried.  And as an alcohol user, I've never had to worry about deadly methanol in my whisky because my whisky is legal.  That means it doesn't come out of a still in the backwoods and wan't sold by shady guys out of the back of a pickup truck who might bottle the first drops from the still to make a few extra bucks per barrel.  Likewise with my wine -- the worst I've had to worry about is the fungus in the cork that occasionally makes a bottle of wine smell (and taste) like gym socks.  And as for beer, again, because it's legal, the worst any beer drinker will ever have to worry about is whether it's gone skunky. 

The only people who benefit from Prohibition were the Mob and the Government.  Unfortunately, we, the people appear to have learned the lesson all too poorly during Prohibition, but the Government appears to have remembered it all too well.  We keep asking the Government to stop repeating the mistakes of the past, and the Government, ever aware of opportunities to grow its power over its subjects, says "What mistake?  Sorry about you guys, but it's working just fine for us."

Please - and I mean this with empathy towards your family situation - whether a chemical happens to be legal or illegal, please stop confusing the effects of a chemical with the effects of a government's attempts to regulate the use of that chemical.  They're not the same thing.

I always propose:

It's 2:00 a.m., there three guys walking up the alley towards you.  Do you want them drunk or do you want them to be stoned?

I always found in the city (pick your city) the sorry old drunkies made the most trouble.  Sure, you could get rolled for crack money, but I tended to stay out of those zones.  It was always the drunks who would stand there on the sidewalk and howl at you: "Hey, hey, f*0kface! DOOn' walk 'way foh me!"
8-P

Stoners don't do that.  Junkies don't do that.  DRUNKS do that!!!!
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/04/drinka.gif

I don't think it is justice to ask 'or' as if you are making a choice, as mentioned we call one legal to use , the other illegal.so how can you move along with an option of doing something 'illegal'?

  ..you make a choice to smoke butts, you are harming mostly yourself(aside from second hand smoke they talk about), with 'buds' depending what you are doing on it, if you are driving and slowing up traffic, then you are slowing up MY schedule and that's rude and unacceptable because you can't find a better way to get a natural high.

There are no ingredients in cigarettes that are good for you..just read the label..so why would one start on them? But if you're already addicted, you find your inner way to help yourself stop.

Marijuana, what is the reason for it, to relax...nothing relaxing if you have to hide or be on the lookout of being busted..
I can run a red light or wait, if I get a rush running it, I risk many things and others besides. Your level of getting caught for weed is a risk too, even if danger isn't involved.

As they say, some like to choose their own poison..I don't choose poison at all. 

I don't think it is justice to ask 'or' as if you are making a choice, as mentioned we call one legal to use , the other illegal.so how can you move along with an option of doing something 'illegal'?

  ..you make a choice to smoke butts, you are harming mostly yourself(aside from second hand smoke they talk about), with 'buds' depending what you are doing on it, if you are driving and slowing up traffic, then you are slowing up MY schedule and that's rude and unacceptable because you can't find a better way to get a natural high.

There are no ingredients in cigarettes that are good for you..just read the label..so why would one start on them? But if you're already addicted, you find your inner way to help yourself stop.

Marijuana, what is the reason for it, to relax...nothing relaxing if you have to hide or be on the lookout of being busted..
I can run a red light or wait, if I get a rush running it, I risk many things and others besides. Your level of getting caught for weed is a risk too, even if danger isn't involved.

As they say, some like to choose their own poison..I don't choose poison at all. 



How can we be more like you,almighty one?

http://www.jibjab.com/view/222844

Funny, very funny ;D

How can we be more like you,almighty one?


How? With NY(Howard Stern Father philosophy)....don't be stupid!

I've lived,seen the things addictions can do to people at an early age and BELIEVED them...I don't have to shoot someone to know what murder is like, I don't have to 'try' a hit to se what it does to me...thanks to all the little 'guinnea pigs' doing the experimenting out there for me......

How? With NY(Howard Stern Father philosophy)....don't be stupid!

I've lived,seen the things addictions can do to people at an early age and BELIEVED them...I don't have to shoot someone to know what murder is like, I don't have to 'try' a hit to se what it does to me...thanks to all the little 'guinnea pigs' doing the experimenting out there for me......




So you never did anything wrong in your life,huh? Now that sounds a little stupid...

So you never did anything wrong in your life,huh? Now that sounds a little stupid...


Wrong..is driving off a cliff on a bike(playing daredevil), wrong?
A roommate who thinks it's cute waking up at 5am and crowing like a rooster quite loud, THAT is wrong BUT it is not illegal.

I learned from that drive and it messed my body up temporarily..got my brains together to know I will never do that again and let's see..wrong, whatever it may have been, if it's agianst society, you pay the price and move on.. With the rommante, you tell them (control yourself)-don't do that or you're movin out-....

however,if you want to live 'high as a kite'-as some do- their work performance may lack or if not, they still have to sneak to get whatever it is to get them off...I prefer not to be a lifelong 'sneak', wouldn't want anyone working for me who has a tendency to feel it is ok ..am I looking for a saint..probably someone just responsible..

Even something as little(?) as taking something of someones' from the office fridge....that's wrong, someone thinks they want to take a chance...they pay the consequence..you can't get put away for doing it, but MJ you can or get some record for it...what's so hard about doing what's right? THAT is the question. 

Wrong..is driving off a cliff on a bike(playing daredevil), wrong?
A roommate who thinks it's cute waking up at 5am and crowing like a rooster quite loud, THAT is wrong BUT it is not illegal.

I learned from that drive and it messed my body up temporarily..got my brains together to know I will never do that again and let's see..wrong, whatever it may have been, if it's agianst society, you pay the price and move on.. With the rommante, you tell them (control yourself)-don't do that or you're movin out-....

however,if you want to live 'high as a kite'-as some do- their work performance may lack or if not, they still have to sneak to get whatever it is to get them off...I prefer not to be a lifelong 'sneak', wouldn't want anyone working for me who has a tendency to feel it is ok ..am I looking for a saint..probably someone just responsible..

Even something as little(?) as taking something of someones' from the office fridge....that's wrong, someone thinks they want to take a chance...they pay the consequence..you can't get put away for doing it, but MJ you can or get some record for it...what's so hard about doing what's right? THAT is the question. 


We as human beings are full of quirks and that is what makes us great. If laws exist is because there's a need to keep us in check also because is in our nature to misbehave sometimes. Sainthood goes agaisnt being human,we need to do mistakes in our lives is how we learn from it that makes us do the right thing.

I'm not saying we need to break the law to live but we surely need to live life to the fullest. Now if you never had the need to experiment with drugs then that's admirable but the ones who did even if they did broke the law by doing it shouldn't be branded as drug addicts or a lifelong sneaks.
If i was a boss i would have no problem hiring someone who smoked pot in his free time as long as he was responsible at the workplace and did a good job. In my opinion being responsible is knowing how to act depending on where you are.

Then may I humbly suggest that the root cause of the problem isn't the drug, but the banning of the drug.
Certainly the banning of cannabis has caused problems in a different scale compared to the use of the drug.  I find it remarkable that politicians seem unable to see that the social problems caused by prohibition are way worse than the effects of the drug (and looking at history, the same is probably true of the opiates and maybe even cocaine)

Then may I humbly suggest that the root cause of the problem isn't the drug, but the banning of the drug.


I am sorry, and I do not intend offense.

But that is the stupidest argument I have ever heard used for legalizing drugs.

In that case, why not legalize rape?  Murder?  Theft?

After all, it is only the fact that it is illegal that makes them crimes.  Go ahead and legalize Meth, Crack, Heroin, and everything else.  It is only the banning that makes them illegal.

No, the problem is that my son is a drug addict.  Plain and simple, cut and dry.  Thankfully he no longer uses crack or meth, but our biggest fear is that he will return to those drugs again.

And that because of some people, he feels that marijuanna is not a drug.  It is natural, it is safe, it is from the earth.  It is insine gibberish like that that frankly pisses me the hell off.

And remember, Tobacco is an herb also, it is from the Earth.  And anybody that thinks that Tobacco smoke is some kind of murderous evil while pot smoke is 100% safe and natural should have their heads examined.  Like so many things I hear from  the "Pro Drug" movement (and anit-smoking movement), it is simply insane and makes no sense if looked at with a critical eye.

I admit I am addicted to smoking.  Yet you have people that smoke up every day or every other day, yet they are not addicted.  Reminds me of the guy that only got plastered on beer and beat his wife on weekends.  Oh, he was not and could not be an alcoholic, because he only drank on weekends.

*shakes his head and wanders away*

We as human beings are full of quirks and that is what makes us great. If laws exist is because there's a need to keep us in check also because is in our nature to misbehave sometimes. Sainthood goes agaisnt being human,we need to do mistakes in our lives is how we learn from it that makes us do the right thing.

I'm not saying we need to break the law to live but we surely need to live life to the fullest. Now if you never had the need to experiment with drugs then that's admirable but the ones who did even if they did broke the law by doing it shouldn't be branded as drug addicts or a lifelong sneaks.
If i was a boss i would have no problem hiring someone who smoked pot in his free time as long as he was responsible at the workplace and did a good job. In my opinion being responsible is knowing how to act depending on where you are.


I whole heartedly agree. Some laws are also just to make others rich also. Otherwise tobacco would be iilegal (as an example).
Hey Government >:(
Don't try to control my body with laws...

I am sorry, and I do not intend offense.

But that is the stupidest argument I have ever heard used for legalizing drugs.

In that case, why not legalize rape?  Murder?  Theft?

After all, it is only the fact that it is illegal that makes them crimes.  Go ahead and legalize Meth, Crack, Heroin, and everything else.  It is only the banning that makes them illegal.

No, the problem is that my son is a drug addict.  Plain and simple, cut and dry.  Thankfully he no longer uses crack or meth, but our biggest fear is that he will return to those drugs again.

And that because of some people, he feels that marijuanna is not a drug.  It is natural, it is safe, it is from the earth.  It is insine gibberish like that that frankly pisses me the hell off.

And remember, Tobacco is an herb also, it is from the Earth.  And anybody that thinks that Tobacco smoke is some kind of murderous evil while pot smoke is 100% safe and natural should have their heads examined.  Like so many things I hear from  the "Pro Drug" movement (and anit-smoking movement), it is simply insane and makes no sense if looked at with a critical eye.

I admit I am addicted to smoking.  Yet you have people that smoke up every day or every other day, yet they are not addicted.  Reminds me of the guy that only got plastered on beer and beat his wife on weekends.  Oh, he was not and could not be an alcoholic, because he only drank on weekends.

*shakes his head and wanders away*
well, the obvious difference, mr. headshake, is that rape, murder, etc., are crimes with VICTIMS, whereas people who smoke pot are only hurting themselves, if that. i have yet to understand why it's the government's business whether i smoke a plant that grows out of the ground.

well, the obvious difference, mr. headshake, is that rape, murder, etc., are crimes with VICTIMS, whereas people who smoke pot are only hurting themselves, if that. i have yet to understand why it's the government's business whether i smoke a plant that grows out of the ground.


And so is theft.  Which a lot of drug addicts use to feed their addiction.

And I can continue that argument.  If it is a logical argument to use that for pot, then it is logical to expand it to anything else.  Meth, Crack, Cocaine, Heroin, LSD, and every drug ever used.

And I can use the same argument for Tobacco.  Except that is not the same, because it does not make you high.

Oh, and if you think pot smokers only hurt themselves, look at the crime that goes along with it.  As I said before, how many drug dealers only sell pot?  Damned few if any.  Because they sell drugs, anything that will get you high and make you money.

And tell the people harmed by marijuanna that they are not victims.  Is funny how many people seem to look at pot through rose colored glasses.

And so is theft.  Which a lot of drug addicts use to feed their addiction.

And I can continue that argument.  If it is a logical argument to use that for pot, then it is logical to expand it to anything else.  Meth, Crack, Cocaine, Heroin, LSD, and every drug ever used.

And I can use the same argument for Tobacco.  Except that is not the same, because it does not make you high.

Oh, and if you think pot smokers only hurt themselves, look at the crime that goes along with it.  As I said before, how many drug dealers only sell pot?  Damned few if any.  Because they sell drugs, anything that will get you high and make you money.

And tell the people harmed by marijuanna that they are not victims.  Is funny how many people seem to look at pot through rose colored glasses.
i've smoked pot for years. i've never committed a crime to get pot, other than getting pot.

if someone commits a crime for drugs, the crime they commit is THE CRIME THEY COMMIT, not that they committed it to get drugs. a lot of people commit crimes to get food, so maybe we should outlaw eating?  ;D

Cut the crap everyone ::)
Painkillers,meth,weed,cocaine,heroin,prozac,tobacco,alcohol,food,sex,love...we are always ON something.

Cut the crap everyone ::)
Painkillers,meth,weed,cocaine,heroin,prozac,tobacco,alcohol,food,sex,love...we are always ON something.
not saver. he's pure as the driven snow. :P

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/75000/images/_78988_potyoung300.jpg

                                   POL POT

the theft of food is not considered a crime in the Bible/religious terms as it is a way of survival..stealing drugs is an entirely different matter. Therefore if a person has stolen a loaf of bread and some milk because they were starving they should be forgiven and let off.

I don't like maraJoanna at all. see cos' i don't smoke I once ate some way back in the 80's..never again

i'm not really that big on it lately either. too much emotional stuff going on.

Oh, and if you think pot smokers only hurt themselves, look at the crime that goes along with it.  As I said before, how many drug dealers only sell pot?  Damned few if any.  Because they sell drugs, anything that will get you high and make you money.


All the ones I know.. because most people are smart enough to stay away from the ones that try and sell you anything else.


"I can't smoke a plant that was made by God, but I can kill my wife if I'm a football player!"

not saver. he's pure as the driven snow. :P


nice likkle play on words there..was it intentional  ;D ;D

http://www.cartoonstock.com/lowres/cgo0217l.jpg

well, the obvious difference,  is that rape, murder, etc., are crimes with VICTIMS, whereas people who smoke pot are only hurting themselves, if that. i have yet to understand why it's the government's business whether i smoke a plant that grows out of the ground.


I'm TOTALLY with you on this one !    8)    ;D

I still can't vote in your poll because it's totally biased in favor of tobacco!  Furthermore, you did not even state the degree to which "both" are worse, and compared to what?  It's a grammatical impossibility!

not saver. he's pure as the driven snow. :P


Pure? What am I the 2nd Coming?
Maybe lucky, alert, sensible. When that chief of police came to our high school for 'health' class, and showed us what f'd up people looked like, or 1/2 way there, and what happened to their insides from drugs and abuse, I took my vow to be in the 'don't touch,use, or peddle' drug club.

We ended alcohol prohibition and THAT hasn't hurt anyone huh?
What were they afraid of? Riots if people didn't get their whiskey, money to the underworld if they didn't make it available(that would be easy to see as the bank account swells and Vito has no job..must be running booze?, People have a right to imbibe all they want....well tell that to those who ran over someone,crashed into another,had no idea what they were doing to themselves and maybe jumped off a freeway overpass....

Need I say more from years of tabulating and observations?

So let's make the less effective drugs legal, open jails only for hardened criminals, and form a commune where we can all sleep/get high together..'cause  it's recreational! 8-P

Pure? What am I the 2nd Coming?
Uh oh!

Maybe lucky, alert, sensible. When that chief of police came to our high school for 'health' class, and showed us what f'd up people looked like, or 1/2 way there, and what happened to their insides from drugs and abuse, I took my vow to be in the 'don't touch,use, or peddle' drug club.
Joe Friday?
???

We ended alcohol prohibition and THAT hasn't hurt anyone huh?
What were they afraid of? Riots if people didn't get their whiskey, money to the underworld if they didn't make it available(that would be easy to see as the bank account swells and Vito has no job..must be running booze?, People have a right to imbibe all they want....well tell that to those who ran over someone,crashed into another,had no idea what they were doing to themselves and maybe jumped off a freeway overpass....
Alcohol causes far more social destruction than marijuana.  The problem with alcohol prohibition was the same as with pot prohibition today.  It didn't work.  People who wanted a drink found a way to get a drink.  Furthermore, even in prohibition, they didn't prohibit people from consuming alcohol in their own homes.  It was just illegal to transport it and sell it.  You could have a liquor cabinet in your own home and the cops couldn't say boo about it.

So let's make the less effective drugs legal, open jails only for hardened criminals, and form a commune where we can all sleep/get high together..'cause  it's recreational! 8-P

On a lot of those communes, hippies found themselves picking soybeans dawn to dusk without much time for getting baked and loafing around!
:o

So let's make the less effective drugs legal, open jails only for hardened criminals, and form a commune where we can all sleep/get high together..'cause  it's recreational! 8-P


Oh that sounds like heaven :-*

On a lot of those communes, hippies found themselves picking soybeans dawn to dusk without much time for getting baked and loafing around!
:o


Shut up,Max :P

^ ;D

yeah, saver's dystopia sounded pretty good to me too. :D

^ ;D

yeah, saver's dystopia sounded pretty good to me too. :D


Let's go to dystopia,babe :)

Let's go to dystopia,babe :)
one hedonistic paradise for two, hold the mayo :P i'm totally there!

one hedonistic paradise for two, hold the mayo :P i'm totally there!


Wilson will cry.

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/5018/enspecial001gm8.jpg

Wilson will cry.

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/5018/enspecial001gm8.jpg
... not for long, apparently. skewered!!!!

Interesting 20 'don't know'  tuts  ::) ::)

11 reckon 'both' which is what I voted, surely double the crap in one sitting/spliff is just asking for trouble, cigs on their own are a known major health risk but try telling that to smokers and they just suddenly sprout cloth ears!

Interesting 20 'don't know'  tuts   ::) ::)

11 reckon 'both' which is what I voted, surely double the crap in one sitting/spliff is just asking for trouble, cigs on their own are a known major health risk but try telling that to smokers and they just suddenly sprout cloth ears!




They used to say it could make men grow breasts...If that were so, I'd be Dolly Parton!
:-X


Oh that sounds like heaven :-*
Shut up,Max :P



You know of what I speak?
???

I won't vote cause its messed up and my choice is not up there. Although I have made my views known. http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/07/naughty.gif

I owe everything I am today to dope ! Don't need another joint for the rest of my life ! Gave it up 4 years back, but it matters not PERMANENTLY stoned  (how ELSE do you think I got to be so 'warped' !  :P    :D    ;D ).


By the way ... I'm pretty sure I managed NOT to run anyone over, get convicted of a crime, etc; etc; (even though I've done enough to sink a battleship !  ;D ).

I owe everything I am today to dope ! Don't need another joint for the rest of my life ! Gave it up 4 years back, but it matters not PERMANENTLY stoned  (how ELSE do you think I got to be so 'warped' !  :P    :D    ;D ).


By the way ... I'm pretty sure I managed NOT to run anyone over, get convicted of a crime, etc; etc; (even though I've done enough to sink a battleship !  ;D ).


I couldn't agree more except it made me look like a battleship ::)

I couldn't agree more except it made me look like a battleship ::)


I was saying on another thread how hippies got into health food, but then they kept smoking a substance that makes appetizing a chocolate chip cookied dough--fluffernutter--Big Mac--KFC--Slush Puppy hot fudge sundae!
:D

In that case, why not legalize rape?  Murder?  Theft?


(No offence taken.  And none intended in what follows.) 

But I think your position is self-contradictory.

I believe the root of your self-contradictory stance lies in the fact that terms like "illegal" or "break the law" or "criminal" don't distinguish between acts that are malum prohibitum versus malum in se. 

The origins of law are deeply rooted in a chicken-and-egg problem, in that some things are wrong because they're illegal; other things are illegal because they're wrong. 

You don't legalize rape, murder, or theft, because (as others pointed out) those crimes are malum in se.

But you might want to legalize something that's merely malum prohibitum.  Consider that in the 1870s, interracial marriage was illegal because it was (by the standards of the day, in free states and slave states) wrong.  But by the 1970s, interracial marriage was wrong (could get you thrown in jail in some sates) because it was (by the antiquated laws of those states) illegal.

I'm arguing from the point of view that most drug use and posession isn't malum in se (like rape and murder were, and are), but is malum prohibitum (like interracial marriage was).

There's room for legitimate disagreement; the distinction between the two types of laws is blurry, and varies from person to person.  California recently legalized gay marriage because some judges finally acknowledged the feelings of a large number (but still a minority of) their citizens and did away with a bunch of silly old malum prohibitum laws.  In a state like Kentucky, that same case would go different, because of the overwhelming majority of Kentucky's citizens probably believe the whole idea is malum in se

So to pull back further, we delegate a monopoly on force to the government, and we do so under the strictures of the Constitution and the body of laws that pass Constitutional muster.  If X rapes, murders, or steals from Y, then X has inflicted extrajudicial force upon Y.  X has committed a crime. 

If X smokes pot, upon whom, other than himself, has X inflicted force?  (I use the word "force", because it's not the same as "harm".  If X is a friend of mine and he harms himself, he indirectly harms me -- but he does not inflict force on me.  I can ask him not to harm himself, but I cannot force him not to harm himself.  His body is his own, not mine.  And yeah, sometimes that sucks.)


Go ahead and legalize Meth, Crack, Heroin, and everything else.  It is only the banning that makes them illegal.


Personally, I would, but only because I'm willing to accept that X has a right to control his own body.  X has a right to harm himself to the point of killing himself.  His body is not the property of the state, it is not the property of his friends, it isn't even the property of his family, it is his own and his own alone.  I'd vastly prefer that X not do any drugs.  But as long as he's not driving on Y's roads under the influence, or stealing Y's stuff to pay for his fix, I have no right use force to stop him.  (Like I said, sometimes that sucks.  While not as painful as your situation, I've been "Y" to somebody's "X" too.)


And that because of some people, he feels that marijuanna is not a drug.  It is natural, it is safe, it is from the earth.  It is insine gibberish like that that frankly pisses me the hell off.


And here, we're in complete agreement.  Pseudoscience sucks.  "Natural" doesn't mean safe.  Never mind tobacco, cyanide is natural.  So's uranium.  Cyanide's even an organic compound.  And as it stands, "medicinal marijuana" is quackery.  The quality of the research is poor largely because the drug is illegal, and nobody can do good research -- but science doesn't care why the research is poor, only that it is poor.  So - my opinions on legalization aside, most health claims for pot are not yet backed up by good data.  I'd like to see legalization because it would mean we'd get more data, and we'd answer those questions one way or another.  (And let's get real here -- even if the stuff can have positive health effects, smoking it is probably the least healthy way to ingest the drug.)


I admit I am addicted to smoking. 


Fair enough, but a few posts later you say in regards to other addicts' drugs of choice:


And so is theft.  Which a lot of drug addicts use to feed their addiction.


So - at what price - $10/pack?  $100/pack?  $1000/pack? - would you stop smoking, or would you turn to the black market to get a smoke or two now and then?  And if cigarettes cost $1000/pack, would you rob or steal to get the $1000?

Or would you prefer the status quo, in which tobacco is legalized at today's cost of... (lol, as a nonsmoker, I have no idea!) whatever it costs.  (You can laugh at me if the taxes have already pushed the price over $10/pack, but if a cigarette costs a dollar, I can think of plenty of wines where I've paid $0.10/sip, which really isn't too far off from $0.10 for a puff.)



And tell the people harmed by marijuanna that they are not victims.  Is funny how many people seem to look at pot through rose colored glasses.


And tell my uncle's survivors after he died of lung cancer from legal tobacco in his 50s.  Tell the survivors of people who died of cirrhosis from legal alcohol.  But are they victims of some third party who should be jailed for selling them the smokes or booze?  If so, of whom? 


As I said before, how many drug dealers only sell pot?  Damned few if any.  Because they sell drugs, anything that will get you high and make you money.


I live in a state in which beer, wine, and whisky are sold in every grocery store, usually one aisle removed from the meat aisle, since all three go well with burgers and steak.

"Goddamn, the grocer man."
  - with apologies to Steppenwolf.

Some of them even sell bacon.  Have you seen what that stuff'll do to your arteries over 50 years?  And if you don't think bacon'll get you high, you ain't stuck your head over a batch of frying bacon lately, have ya?  Bacon's not as deadly as potsmoking, tobaccosmoking, or any form of alcohol ingestion, but I've never seen anyone call it healthy.  Why not prohibit it too? 

If, by your logic, we ought to ban pot due to the harm the drug causes, we must also bring back prohibition of alcohol and tobacco.  Which is why I asked you - in the event of national tobacco prohibition, at what price would you finally stop buying smokes on the black market, and if you couldn't afford it, what other crimes would you commit (beyond "posession of tobacco") to have a smoke? 

It's an interesting thought experiment.  If prohibition were to return, including the risk of charges for posession, at what price would I give up alcohol?  I'd move to a state where posession of alcohol was a misdemeanor, and I'd pay, on the black market, about $50/bottle for beer, $250/bottle for wine, and $1000/bottle for whisky.  A bottle of fine whisky can last me 2-3 years, because its shelf-life is practically infinite; it doesn't age in the bottle, nor change after opening.  There are beers and wines that I'd pay those sums for, but I'd indulge in them only once or twice a year, as the shelf life of low-end beers/wines is 1-2 years at best, and once opened, 2-3 days.  Not coincidentally, those prices are comparable to what I already spend for legal booze on a yearly basis. 

I'd break a "it's wrong because it's illegal" kind of law (malum prohibitum) to have a drink every now and then, and I'd feel no remorse.  I would not, however, steal to get my $1000/year booze budget, because I don't break "it's illegal because it's wrong" laws (malum in se) type of laws.

This isn't a purely theoretical discussion.  Last year, I had someone find their answer "At what price would someone give up foie gras?"  The answer was "At the price of $50 in gas for a road trip to a place in a jurisdiction that wasn't subject to the ban, that cooked it to the same standards as the best spots in Chicago."

For the record, I'm pro-legalization of (in approximate ascending order of harm) coffee, bacon, foie gras, pot, tobacco, alcohol, and psychedelics.  I'd argue for legalization of cocaine and other hard drugs by prescription only, under the guidance of a licensed physician and only for the disease of "addicted to it".  And I know that my policy there would lead to a lot of dead patients, because addiction's still a deadly disease.  I happen to think it would do less harm than our current policy, because it would put my gun-toting dealer on my street corner out of work, and force him to get a job at $5.50/hour packing groceries (including coca-cola in the original formula, although you'd need a prescription to get it) at the corner store.  I don't believe in any of this "medicinal marijuana" quackery.  I'm a consumer of coffee, bacon, foie gras and alcohol.  As good as bacon (every chance I get) and foie gras (once or twice a year) make me feel, those two substances aren't drugs.  The rest are. 

If you're still reading, my apologies in advance for the length of this post.  Blame the beer, and take advantage of the fact that I'm posting on a three-beer handicap tonight!

I mentioned this a while back but since this thread has been popular lately, I am going to repeat (so people don't have to search 9 pages in this thread). For some reason, there must have been a glitch on the board a while ago. All polls that were created prior to that glitch got messed up-that is why there are two answers of "I don't know". It wasn't originally like that. If you search the entire board and find old polls, you will noticed that they, too are messed up. So, it has nothing to do with MerCat (who started this thread) making the poll a bit bias but it was a technical booboo.



Cat 

(No offence taken.  And none intended in what follows.) 

...

If you're still reading, my apologies in advance for the length of this post.  Blame the beer, and take advantage of the fact that I'm posting on a three-beer handicap tonight!

Now, if that post's not worth a karma click, I don't know what is, especially:

I'd argue for legalization of cocaine and other hard drugs by prescription only, under the guidance of a licensed physician and only for the disease of "addicted to it".  And I know that my policy there would lead to a lot of dead patients, because addiction's still a deadly disease.  I happen to think it would do less harm than our current policy, because it would put my gun-toting dealer on my street corner out of work, and force him to get a job at $5.50/hour packing groceries (including coca-cola in the original formula, although you'd need a prescription to get it) at the corner store.


Couldn't have said it better myself :)

There are plenty of dealers who sell only pot, but they're usually not full-time dealers.  They're people with a good connection.  Their friends say, "Can you pick ME up some of that good sh*t?"  And it goes from there!
8)

I was saying on another thread how hippies got into health food, but then they kept smoking a substance that makes appetizing a chocolate chip cookied dough--fluffernutter--Big Mac--KFC--Slush Puppy hot fudge sundae!
:D


Oh great now I want some junk food but have none in the house. Thank godness. I'll have to just subsitute my diet coke and pretzels.
Oh well better than having a cigarette 18 days smoke free http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/01/anim-jjd.gif

Oh great now I want some junk food but have none in the house. Thank godness. I'll have to just subsitute my diet coke and pretzels.
Oh well better than having a cigarette 18 days smoke free http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/01/anim-jjd.gif



Today, I'm not too sure what I am craving more-junk as in donuts, eclairs, chocolate, etc, or a cigarette. I haven't had either in a LONG time-well it seems like a VERY long time.  :-\\



Cat

Today, I'm not too sure what I am craving more-junk as in donuts, eclairs, chocolate, etc, or a cigarette. I haven't had either in a LONG time-well it seems like a VERY long time.  :-\\



Cat


Yeah but don't you feel healthier?

Things I Miss
Cigs
Drugs
Drinking
Whats Left? http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/02/bigcry.gif
Oh Yeah Sex :D

Cigarettes are far worse, many more carcinogens in them that have been identified whereas marijuana hasn't been linked to any deaths.

By the way I love the biased poll options. So yeah I'm not voting.

(No offence taken.  And none intended in what follows.)... 

Karma also.

Ant

Cigarettes are far worse, many more carcinogens in them that have been identified whereas marijuana hasn't been linked to any deaths.

By the way I love the biased poll options. So yeah I'm not voting.


Pot is habituating but nicotine is physically addictive.  Unless you're a wake-and-bake stoner, cigarettes are much harder to quit. 

Cigarettes are by far worse!
Weed is non addictive & there has been so much LIES & government decite over the years that as mentioned before no decent research has been done.But public demand continues to tell the tale!
If the DEA could bust every suppier today.By tomorrow they would all be replaced!
Basically if everyone smoked it no one would want to fight in any wars!(A handshake is a lot cheaper than a cruise missle)
Weed is no worse than drinking cept it won't damage the internal organs!
Red eyes vs. the coliflower nose!

You could smoke it every day for years & stop without any ill effects....try that with boose or cigs!????
People will do what they want & no government agencies are going to put a dent in the machine!

God made Weed
Man Made Booze
Who do You Trust!
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D :o 8) 8)

Cigarettes are by far worse!
Weed is non addictive & there has been so much LIES & government decite over the years that as mentioned before no decent research has been done.But public demand continues to tell the tale!
If the DEA could bust every suppier today.By tomorrow they would all be replaced!
Basically if everyone smoked it no one would want to fight in any wars!(A handshake is a lot cheaper than a cruise missle)
Weed is no worse than drinking cept it won't damage the internal organs!
Red eyes vs. the coliflower nose!

You could smoke it every day for years & stop without any ill effects....try that with boose or cigs!????
People will do what they want & no government agencies are going to put a dent in the machine!

God made Weed
Man Made Booze
Who do You Trust!
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D :o 8) 8)



I agree 100%

God made Weed
Man Made Booze
Who do You Trust!
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D :o 8) 8)

Karma 2U

Thanks Max ;D

God made Weed
Man Made Booze
Who do You Trust!
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D :o 8) 8)
Home Made Bread ?

Home Made Bread ?


Homegrown tomatoes thats for sure  ::)

If I'm gonna fudge up my lungs, dammit I wanna be high!  ;D


Ha ha,

I feel that the smoking vs marijuana thing is missing the point. I am not against smoking/marijuana per se but the idea of trying to make one worse than the other justifies the use for the lesser. Like alchohol and unhealthy food (the first I do socially and the second is my personal vice), they both harm you with prolonged use and potentially cause addiction.