GOOD-BYE!

SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - Citing "grisly and senseless killings," Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger declined on Tuesday to grant clemency to murderer Donald Beardslee, setting the stage for California's first execution in three years.
As expected, Schwarzenegger said he would allow the execution of Beardslee, 61, to proceed by lethal injection at San Quentin State Prison north of San Francisco at one minute after midnight (3:01 a.m. EST) on Wednesday morning.

Beardslee's attorneys argue he was duped by accomplices and was suffering from mental illness aggravated by brain injuries when in 1981 he shot Stacey Benjamin, 19, and choked and slashed the throat of Patty Geddling, 23, in California.

The Air Force veteran, who was out on parole at the time for a 1969 murder of a young woman in Missouri, confessed to both killings and was sentenced to death in 1984.

"The state and federal courts have affirmed his conviction and death sentence, and nothing in his petition or the record of his case convinces me that he did not understand the gravity of his actions or that these heinous murders were wrong," Schwarzenegger said in a statement.

Beardslee's attorneys had asked the governor to commute his sentence to life in prison without parole. In a detailed five-page response, Schwarzenegger detailed the brutality of Beardslee's three killings and rejected the argument that the killer was mentally impaired.

"We are not dealing here with a man who is so generally affected by his impairment that he cannot tell the difference between right and wrong," Schwarzenegger said.

TOP COURT REJECTS STAY APPEAL

Also on Tuesday, the U.S. Supreme Court rejected Beardslee's request for a stay of execution, turning down his appeal without any comment or recorded dissent.

Defense lawyers argued to the court that lethal injection is cruel and unusual punishment and that jurors were unfairly influenced in reaching a death verdict.

California, the nation's most populous state, has the largest death row population in the United States and perhaps the world, but it rarely administers the ultimate punishment. Lengthy appeals typically lead to two decades of delay before an inmate is executed.

Beardslee would become the 11th inmate executed since California restored the death penalty in 1978. He is one of 640 people on California's death row. Texas is second with 455.

Beardslee declined the state's offer of a last meal of his choice on Tuesday, a prison official said. He is set to die by lethal injection of three chemicals, including potassium chloride, which causes cardiac arrest.

Last year Schwarzenegger rejected the only other clemency petition made to him from a death row inmate, Kevin Cooper, who was convicted of murdering four people in southern California. The Ninth U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in San Francisco granted Cooper an 11th-hour reprieve. (With additional reporting from Jim Vicini in Washington)

Link: http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=7361895&src=ActiveBuddy§ion=news

Well, they DO have to make room for Scott Peterson!!! ;D

Defense lawyers argued to the court that lethal injection is cruel and unusual punishment 


Lethal injection is not cruel and unusual punishment...He goes to sleep.  No pain.  On the other hand, shooting and slashing of the throat would probably be considered cruel and unusual punishment.  This type of argument is what gives defense lawyers a bad name, IMO.

That means Scott Peterson maybe next.... and not a moment too soon!

I think the death penalty is letting someone off easy. Life in prison sucks way worse than dying... What is the government counting on? Hell? I'm sure most people are familiar with the "Rime of the Ancient Mariner." Take a hint from that and give him a proper punishment. Life in prison without parole. There he will undoubtedly be miserable, eat terrible cuisine, be sodomised on a weekly basis, and have nothing to do but mope, read, or convert to Islam. When faced with those consequences, a painless death is an appealing alternative. Especially since there probably is no hell.

I think the death penalty is letting someone off easy. Life in prison sucks way worse than dying... What is the government counting on? Hell? I'm sure most people are familiar with the "Rime of the Ancient Mariner." Take a hint from that and give him a proper punishment. Life in prison without parole. There he will undoubtedly be miserable, eat terrible cuisine, be sodomised on a weekly basis, and have nothing to do but mope, read, or convert to Islam. When faced with those consequences, a painless death is an appealing alternative. Especially since there probably is no hell.



I agree.




Cat

I think the death penalty is letting someone off easy. Life in prison sucks way worse than dying... What is the government counting on? Hell? I'm sure most people are familiar with the "Rime of the Ancient Mariner." Take a hint from that and give him a proper punishment. Life in prison without parole. There he will undoubtedly be miserable, eat terrible cuisine, be sodomised on a weekly basis, and have nothing to do but mope, read, or convert to Islam. When faced with those consequences, a painless death is an appealing alternative. Especially since there probably is no hell.


Bullsh**.  I bet his stomach sunk as he set in his little 4-9X cell looking at the clock before he got executed, he's dead now, it's over.  The death penalty is in no way letting someone off easy, which is why you on the left protest it to no end. 

Though lethal injection is a crock, I'll stick with the states that still use the electric chair in the majority of death penalty cases.

LOL... the best argument for it is one i heard about Osama BL..

He is prepared to die for Islam.. but he isn't prepared to lick Jello out of Bubba's asscrack for Islam  ;D

Though lethal injection is a crock, I'll stick with the states that still use the electric chair in the majority of death penalty cases.


And this from an upstanding Christian.  Why just the burn-chair? why not return to the Guiotine, in the town square of course, or better yet, the noose, or while we're at it, why not draw and quarter them and display thier severed body parts at the major entrances to our cities?  Are you really such a sadist?

Until we find out what will deter these lowlifes we'll do fine poking them to death!!!

You can just see law suits a plenty giving someone life in prison and them charging THAT is cruel and unusual. Watch the stink they make when the tv tube goes out at least they have tv. The US takes better care of their prisoners than any other country!

I thought they were in PRISON not exercise camp..NO WEIGHT LIFTING, NO TV....
Other countries put you in a room for 10 years by yourself and do you think they repeat or want to commit as many crimes....??  LET'S THEN FIGHT TO MAKE PROSONS LESS TOLERANT! 

And this from an upstanding Christian.  Why just the burn-chair? why not return to the Guiotine, in the town square of course, or better yet, the noose, or while we're at it, why not draw and quarter them and display thier severed body parts at the major entrances to our cities?  Are you really such a sadist?

As always, I am against capital punishment.  Remember, objection to the death penalty does not mean you like to coddle criminals.  The guy that got the hot shot was obviously a horrible person who should never be allowed among the pulic again.  Connecticut is about to carry out that state's first execution in 44 years.  The condemned man is a terrible serial murderer named Michael Ross.  There's no doubt he is guilty of his ruthless and heinous crimes, but I'm still against his execution.  Why?  Because I am against the death penalty.  Period.  If you are against the death penalty, you must object to the application of capital punishment in all cases.  
DC asks whether GWB is a sadist.  Possibly, but his personal life is none of my business.  What is clear about GWB and other ardent death penalty advocates is that they conflate vengeance with justice.  
I don't believe revenge has any place in a civilized justice system.  It creates too much bloodlust and too much bias against the accused.
I view the problem on a more medical/public health model.  We imprison criminals because they hurt society.  However, if we punish the criminal in so barbarous a manner that his pathology deepens to the pont where he can never be re-integrated into society, we have lost that individual forever.
A tiny percentage of the population is criminally psychopathic and will destroy lives no matter what.  A far greater number are backed into pathological behavior by desperate and hopeless circumstances.  The problem is, after a few years in super-max, no prisoner is sane enough to return to society.
Furthermore, we are jailing more and more mentally ill people because we have failed as a society to be able to address their needs.  Once a paranoid schizophrenic is jailed, his condition will deteriorate.

I see a medieval viciousness among those who celebrate executions.  Though I disagree with capital punishment, I see and execution as the carrying out of a sentence.  It is terrible for the victims of crimes and their loved ones to suffer for the acts perpetrated upon them.  It is also a dark and sad moment when society has to end the life of a perpetrator.  To me, an execution does not represent successfully ridding ourselves of a dangerous individual.  It represenst a the culmination of failures...failure of the individual, failure of the family, and failure of society at large.  The healthiest thing we can do regarding an execution is to reflect on what we can do to prevent crime...and prevent the social circumstances that lead to crime.
I think the people who cheer for the hangman are less civilized than those who do not.

Death penalty advocates love to turn to you and say, "What if somebody murdered your mother (sister, brother, child, spouse, etc), wouldn't YOU want to kill that person?"  I say it is very likely.  I know it happened to R&R FAN.  I can't begin to understand the anguish of losing a loved one to murder.  I hope I nor anybody else on this board has to go through that.  However, we cannot base a rational justice system on the emotions of the crime victims.  If we do, we might as well not have a justice system at all.

As always, I am against capital punishment.  Remember, objection to the death penalty does not mean you like to coddle criminals.  The guy that got the hot shot was obviously a horrible person who should never be allowed among the pulic again.  Connecticut is about to carry out that state's first execution in 44 years.  The condemned man is a terrible serial murderer named Michael Ross.  There's no doubt he is guilty of his ruthless and heinous crimes, but I'm still against his execution.  Why?  Because I am against the death penalty.  Period.  If you are against the death penalty, you must object to the application of capital punishment in all cases. 
DC asks whether GWB is a sadist.  Possibly, but his personal life is none of my business.  What is clear about GWB and other ardent death penalty advocates is that they conflate vengeance with justice. 
I don't believe revenge has any place in a civilized justice system.  It creates too much bloodlust and too much bias against the accused.
I view the problem on a more medical/public health model.  We imprison criminals because they hurt society.  However, if we punish the criminal in so barbarous a manner that his pathology deepens to the pont where he can never be re-integrated into society, we have lost that individual forever.
A tiny percentage of the population is criminally psychopathic and will destroy lives no matter what.  A far greater number are backed into pathological behavior by desperate and hopeless circumstances.  The problem is, after a few years in super-max, no prisoner is sane enough to return to society.
Furthermore, we are jailing more and more mentally ill people because we have failed as a society to be able to address their needs.  Once a paranoid schizophrenic is jailed, his condition will deteriorate.

I see a medieval viciousness among those who celebrate executions.  Though I disagree with capital punishment, I see and execution as the carrying out of a sentence.  It is terrible for the victims of crimes and their loved ones to suffer for the acts perpetrated upon them.  It is also a dark and sad moment when society has to end the life of a perpetrator.  To me, an execution does not represent successfully ridding ourselves of a dangerous individual.  It represenst a the culmination of failures...failure of the individual, failure of the family, and failure of society at large.  The healthiest thing we can do regarding an execution is to reflect on what we can do to prevent crime...and prevent the social circumstances that lead to crime.
I think the people who cheer for the hangman are less civilized than those who do not.

Death penalty advocates love to turn to you and say, "What if somebody murdered your mother (sister, brother, child, spouse, etc), wouldn't YOU want to kill that person?"  I say it is very likely.  I know it happened to R&R FAN.  I can't begin to understand the anguish of losing a loved one to murder.  I hope I nor anybody else on this board has to go through that.  However, we cannot base a rational justice system on the emotions of the crime victims.  If we do, we might as well not have a justice system at all.



Add to all this the number of times that a person has been villified and brought to his/her death then found out later that the person was innocent(oops).  The evidence shows that the justice system
has a propensity for getting it wrong in a large number of cases, and in many cases they are fully
aware that the person they are prosecuting is innocent, because they have hidden, or manufactured
the necessary evidence.  I believe the figure is now estimated at 25%.

Add to all this the number of times that a person has been villified and brought to his/her death then found out later that the person was innocent(oops).   The evidence shows that the justice system
has a propensity for getting it wrong in a large number of cases, and in many cases they are fully
aware that the person they are prosecuting is innocent, because they have hidden, or manufactured
the necessary evidence.  I believe the figure is now estimated at 25%.

Exactly.  That's the more pragmatic reason I object to capital punishment.  The more idealistic side is that it promotes a vengeant attitude.

Vengeance is not a virtue.
Vengeance is not a virtue.
Vengeance is not a virtue.

I say it three times because it bears repeating, but I could say it three million times and the rightwingers still wouldn't get it!

As always, I am against capital punishment.  Remember, objection to the death penalty does not mean you like to coddle criminals.  The guy that got the hot shot was obviously a horrible person who should never be allowed among the pulic again.  Connecticut is about to carry out that state's first execution in 44 years.  The condemned man is a terrible serial murderer named Michael Ross.  There's no doubt he is guilty of his ruthless and heinous crimes, but I'm still against his execution.  Why?  Because I am against the death penalty.  Period.  If you are against the death penalty, you must object to the application of capital punishment in all cases.  
DC asks whether GWB is a sadist.  Possibly, but his personal life is none of my business.  What is clear about GWB and other ardent death penalty advocates is that they conflate vengeance with justice.  
I don't believe revenge has any place in a civilized justice system.  It creates too much bloodlust and too much bias against the accused.
I view the problem on a more medical/public health model.  We imprison criminals because they hurt society.  However, if we punish the criminal in so barbarous a manner that his pathology deepens to the pont where he can never be re-integrated into society, we have lost that individual forever.
A tiny percentage of the population is criminally psychopathic and will destroy lives no matter what.  A far greater number are backed into pathological behavior by desperate and hopeless circumstances.  The problem is, after a few years in super-max, no prisoner is sane enough to return to society.
Furthermore, we are jailing more and more mentally ill people because we have failed as a society to be able to address their needs.  Once a paranoid schizophrenic is jailed, his condition will deteriorate.

I see a medieval viciousness among those who celebrate executions.  Though I disagree with capital punishment, I see and execution as the carrying out of a sentence.  It is terrible for the victims of crimes and their loved ones to suffer for the acts perpetrated upon them.  It is also a dark and sad moment when society has to end the life of a perpetrator.  To me, an execution does not represent successfully ridding ourselves of a dangerous individual.  It represenst a the culmination of failures...failure of the individual, failure of the family, and failure of society at large.  The healthiest thing we can do regarding an execution is to reflect on what we can do to prevent crime...and prevent the social circumstances that lead to crime.
I think the people who cheer for the hangman are less civilized than those who do not.

Death penalty advocates love to turn to you and say, "What if somebody murdered your mother (sister, brother, child, spouse, etc), wouldn't YOU want to kill that person?"  I say it is very likely.  I know it happened to R&R FAN.  I can't begin to understand the anguish of losing a loved one to murder.  I hope I nor anybody else on this board has to go through that.  However, we cannot base a rational justice system on the emotions of the crime victims.  If we do, we might as well not have a justice system at all.





http://users.pandora.be/eforum/emoticons4u/happy/1074.gif





Cat

I wonder why GWB hasn't replied to Maxwell.  ;D

I see a medieval viciousness among those who celebrate executions.  

That was my point in refering to drawing and quartering.

And to our religious friends who support capital punishment, isn't there something in the bible about "vengance is mine sayith the Lord"?

Following the interpretation of the Commandments given to Moses they translate to :
Thou Shall Not Murder...therefore we can KILL to punish those who perverse the law of the people...

 The healthiest thing we can do regarding an execution is to reflect on what we can do to prevent crime...


Let's see.  If the guy was sentenced to death for the murder of his first victim, the other two he killed would probably still be alive today.  Say he got the death penalty, one appeal, and got executed in 90 days like Texas is doing now in certain cases, would those other two have not been killed?  The death penalty does prevent crime.  Think about it, life in prison, anyone could bust out or get parole and kill again.  But Beardslee got the death penalty, how many more people will he be harming?

Have you seen some of the newer prisons?  Heck, they have it better than many of those who have never committed a crime.  Cable TV, 3 meals a day, a bed, a roof over their head, gym equipment, free education...I could go on.  I was watching "Big House" on A&E the other night and was amazed at some of the prisons.
--

Well if that's a problem for some people, then I would much rather put a stop to it than put someone to death as an alternative. Perhaps have different prisons for people who have committed serious crimes and are in for life..? Not everyone in prison is a monster... is access to education materials such a bad thing for someone who will be released back into society in a few years? I think the main problem in prisons (if "Oz" gives anything near an accurate impression... lol) is that there is too much freedom, not enough scheduling and discipline. Wake up at 7am, do excercises until 8am, breakfast, shower (3 min. each, not enough time to rape anyone), then reading time/personal cell time for two hours, then lunch, then classes for five hours... and so on... no leeway. Don't give them any opportunities and control every aspect of their day.

And GW, the chair is a sick device. I know you love that whole gather round the gallows approach to entertainment, but could you clear your head for a second (shouldn't take long) and consider whether you'd rather be given a painless death by injection, or spend life in prison being some Lerch-sized maniac's wife? My choice is pretty clear... give me the quick, dignified death. There's actually something I want to ask you... What do you think of the 'no capital punishment' condition in the extradition treaty between the US and EU?

--
Perhaps have different prisons for people who have committed serious crimes and are in for life..? Not everyone in prison is a monster... is access to education materials such a bad thing for someone who will be released back into society in a few years? I think the main problem in prisons (if "Oz" gives anything near an accurate impression... lol) is that there is too much freedom, not enough scheduling and discipline. Wake up at 7am, do excercises until 8am, breakfast, shower (3 min. each, not enough time to rape anyone), then reading time/personal cell time for two hours, then lunch, then classes for five hours... and so on... no leeway. Don't give them any opportunities and control every aspect of their day.



It is a fact that when prisoners recieve educational opportunities(opportunities denied them in a majority
of schools they attended) recidivism is reduced.  Rehabilitation is considered a liberal cause, and people who spit the word liberal get all cranky and consider educating the prisoners akin to
coddling them, despite the fact that it works. 

Let's see.  If the guy was sentenced to death for the murder of his first victim, the other two he killed would probably still be alive today.  Say he got the death penalty, one appeal, and got executed in 90 days like Texas is doing now in certain cases, would those other two have not been killed?  The death penalty does prevent crime.  Think about it, life in prison, anyone could bust out or get parole and kill again.  But Beardslee got the death penalty, how many more people will he be harming?

This is totally unconvincing.

This is totally unconvincing.


What is unconvincing?  If he was given the death penalty after his first murder, would he have killed the other two?

  I think lethal injection is an easy way to go compared to his victims. I would rather see a violent criminal dead then to waste tax money on him, when that money could go to help someone who is worth a damn.  If it was my family member who was murdered, I would only wish he would suffer more.

I know if I were to understand that if I hurt another MY punishment would be WORSE, I would think it through..So the problem is these criminals don't THINK..maybe have no CONSCIENCE so treat them like animals!

Ignorance is no excuse to MURDER!!

I would rather see a violent criminal dead

He is dead, the state of California took care of that. 

And on January 26, 2005...the first death penalty in New England in 40 years will take place.

I have no problem with them getting an education...I DO have a problem with it being funded with taxpayer's money.  These people are in jail for a reason while there are good, deserving kids out there who will never get a college education because they can't afford it.  I think they should have to use some of the $$ they "earn" by "working" to at least help pay for their educations.



They are able to work, and the ones who take advantage of educational opportunities usually do both.
I also don't think that there should be any question of anyone in this country not being able to afford
a college education, I don't blame the lack of higher education opportunities on prison reform, I blame it
on our so called leaders who usually don't have to worry about the education their children are getting, and don't care about the rest of us.

What is unconvincing?  If he was given the death penalty after his first murder, would he have killed the other two?

I'm in favor of reforming the penal system so these sick MoFos who kill don't ever get out to kill again.  You don't need the death penalty.
Furthermore, America needs to look seriously at why it has a much higher murder rate than the other western democracies.

I'm in favor of reforming the penal system so these sick MoFos who kill don't ever get out to kill again.  You don't need the death penalty.
Furthermore, America needs to look seriously at why it has a much higher murder rate than the other western democracies.



    I agree Maxwell.  I saw" Bowling for Columbine" for the first time just recently, and I'm not particularly a Michale Moore fan...but if the numbers were accurate about the U.S. firearm deaths compared to other countries, it was quite shocking.

After the lies/falsitites in Columbine, I passed on seeing it ....if someone would come out and tell the true no fluff story of the situation YAY!..'Scared Straight" helped me realize the system to help educate youth why to avoid prison..then as with all things, it becomes Tolerant and you have to climb to the next bar...

Okay we put murderers away without killing them...THEN WHAT??
Reform them to what, what if you can't reform them? Some don't want it...interesting questions but they've been around over the AGES!

We have more here because we tolerate it....If back in the 30-40's when GANGS would form to rob for liquor?Money? if only all good citizens would have stepped up to say GET OUT..ENOUGH!!!
We left it to police, and others with weapons until all turned into machine gun wars, then we tolerated anyone who committed crimes..we should have put the kabosh on it back then..now it has grown like weeds and we don't have enough proper authority to snuff things out...if it were terrorists threatening our country, we send out the army etc..while daily we have gangs killing in our streets at home! And robberies and beatings....sure we're not utopia but these need to be handled well... to give us nice people we good hearts less worries!

After the lies/falsitites in Columbine, I passed on seeing it


You didn't miss much.  I saw it and one part got to me.

There is a scene where Michael Moron goes to Canada to try to show how nice the people up there are compared to Americans.  He had this huge camera crew.  He went and knocked on this one Canadian womens' house and she answer, without missing a beat or looking around said the most friendly hello you ever heard.  Now then, remember he had a three-man huge camera crew following him (Moore.)  I don't care how nice you are, no one answers their door and sees an entire camera crew and doesn't act the slightest bit surprised.  It was staged and Moore is a liar.

Have you seen some of the newer prisons?  Heck, they have it better than many of those who have never committed a crime.  Cable TV, 3 meals a day, a bed, a roof over their head, gym equipment, free education...I could go on.  I was watching "Big House" on A&E the other night and was amazed at some of the prisons.


Don't forget the abundance of gang rapes too.  yhere's always something to keep one occupied in today's modern jails.

That's my point.. LOL what would you rather do.. be injected and slip off to sleep or get Butt F****D by Bubba and friends?

Only three more days until New England's first execution since 1960.

Only three more days until New England's first execution since 1960.


Are they going to draw and quarter him?

Why is it that the majority of those on death row are people of color?  I guess if you aint got the capital, you get the punishment.

Why is it that the majority of those on death row are people of color?  I guess if you aint got the capital, you get the punishment.


Back that up.  Show me that the majority of people on death row in the United States are people of color.

Back that up.  Show me that the majority of people on death row in the United States are people of color.


Here's a link, which must be counting some hispanics as white since otherwise the stats just don't add up.  But then, you gringos just don't know how to fit us latinos into your defiunition of race.  I know the stats are a bit old.  I guess more recent ones are not available.  If anyone finds some, I would be sure to check them out.

http://www.westernprisonproject.org/PrisonIndex/Section_1/DeathPenalty.html

Here's a link, which must be counting some hispanics as white since otherwise the stats just don't add up.  But then, you gringos just don't know how to fit us latinos into your defiunition of race.  I know the stats are a bit old.  I guess more recent ones are not available.  If anyone finds some, I would be sure to check them out.

http://www.westernprisonproject.org/PrisonIndex/Section_1/DeathPenalty.html


Those percentages don't add up like you say, but if they just got the white people on death row correct, 55.0%, that is still a majority, which goes against what you wrote.

Number of First World countries other than the U.S. who execute juvenile offenders: 0

Who knew?

Number of First World countries other than the U.S. who execute juvenile offenders: 0
Who knew?


Scary but true...

Holy Crap.. in which states can you still be hung!?!?!?!  :o

Somewhat decensian

Holy Crap.. in which states can you still be hung!?!?!?!  :o



Here is a list of the states that allow the death penalty and which methods they use I think you should read: http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/conlaw/dpmethods.html

Currently 38 out of our 50 states allow the death penalty, the military uses the death penalty, and the federal government uses the death penalty.

Currently all states authorizing capital punishment now use lethal injection or electrocution as the primary method.  Those allowing a second method use it only if the person soon to be killed asks for it.  The only states using electrocution as their sole and primary method are Alabama, Florida, Georgia, and Nebraska.  Also other states use lethal injection as the main method.

Again, other states that allow the electric chair (besides Alabama, Florida, Georgia, and Nebraska,) the firing squard, hanging, and lethal gas only do so if the person asks for it, every other state, the military, and the federal government use lethal injection (except the four states listed above.)

Now that is a suprise.. that New Hampshire allows prisoners to be hung.

I knew that Lethal Injection was generally the accepted method now but didn't know that there were still other methods. Silly old me thought that the Chair wasn't really used any more...But hey it's nice to know that i can be gassed in Missouri  :o

8.New Hampshire authorizes hanging only if lethal injection cannot be given.

Hmmm... so how could it not be given i wonder?

8.New Hampshire authorizes hanging only if lethal injection cannot be given.

Hmmm... so how could it not be given i wonder?


According to New Hampshire law, it's only if the person being put to death requests it or the state is somehow out of the drugs to make the lethal injection.

Those percentages don't add up like you say, but if they just got the white people on death row correct, 55.0%, that is still a majority, which goes against what you wrote.

Number of First World countries other than the U.S. who execute juvenile offenders: 0

Who knew?

If 45% of the people on death row are people of color--say African Americans and Latinos, it still more than double their representation combined in the general population.
America has yet to execute a juvenile in modern times, but some states have executed adults for crimes committed when they were juveniles.

The family of Michael Ross is trying to get a stay of execution while they protest the death penalty as unfairly applied to minorities.  An extremely dumb argument as Ross is a white boy.  OK, by that logic, executing Ross is our obligation to help even the score!
::)

I have no problem with them getting an education...I DO have a problem with it being funded with taxpayer's money.  These people are in jail for a reason while there are good, deserving kids out there who will never get a college education because they can't afford it.  I think they should have to use some of the $$ they "earn" by "working" to at least help pay for their educations.


There's enough money to do both... We are the richest country in the world, but we are also the pawns of industry. If we cut off just a fraction of the charity we offer the corporations, we'd be able to send every kid to college AND re-educate criminals.

Old arguement.....

There are more minorities incarcerated,(if numbers are correct) because they CAUGHT or found more GUILTY of the crime..is this magic that this happens..I think not.

Old arguement.....

There are more minorities incarcerated,(if numbers are correct) because they CAUGHT or found more GUILTY of the crime..is this magic that this happens..I think not.

Uh, no, "magic" isn't the key word here. "Racism" is.

Black people may just do more crimes, or get caught more.  To say the jails should be filled the exact same way race wise as the percentage of the population that is that race is absurd.

Now that is a suprise.. that New Hampshire allows prisoners to be hung.




Well, I think that is a matter of opinion.  ;)

(Sorry, couldn't resist.)


Cat

Black people may just do more crimes, or get caught more.  To say the jails should be fileld the exact same way race wise as the percentage of the population that is that race is absurd.

African Americans are disproportionately poor in America.  Poverty breeds crime.  The greater rate of poverty for African Americans has everything to do with the historical and institutionalized racism of American culture.  There are those who deny it, like Bill O'Reilly, but those guys are right up there with racists who deny the Holocaust.
People of color get convicted of crimes more than whites for two reasons--
1. The less money you have, the harder it is to find adequate legal counsel.
2. In many parts of America, the courts do all they can to see people of color are convicted, no matter what lengths they have to go!

African Americans are disproportionately poor in America.  Poverty breeds crime.  The greater rate of poverty for African Americans has everything to do with the historical and institutionalized racism of American culture.  There are those who deny it, like Bill O'Reilly, but those guys are right up there with racists who deny the Holocaust.
People of color get convicted of crimes more than whites for two reasons--
1. The less money you have, the harder it is to find adequate legal counsel.
2. In many parts of America, the courts do all they can to see people of color are convicted, no matter what lengths they have to go!


Correctamundo. It took four centuries to put Blacks in the conditions they were in in the early sixties when the civil rights movement gained fervor... it will take much longer than forty years of slowly-blooming tolerance and integration in American culture to fix it. This is the reason I support Affirmative Action. We have to work harder and longer to reverse the African-American poverty cycle which our formerly racist policies created.

Poverty does not breed crime...do you see all the white collar crime that has gone on?
If it does breed crime why aren't ALL people in the worst cities in jail?

You must think due to the figures of crime police INTENTIONALLY are looking for ethnicities to arrest first. This thinking does not hold up in the crime stat figures.

Just like saying color determines if you will work..THAT is a problem from the Govt.ASSISTING those with welfare programs..if there were no welfare, you'll se how fast people would find a job to keep busy!

 

Poverty does not breed crime...do you see all the white collar crime that has gone on?
If it does breed crime why aren't ALL people in the worst cities in jail?

What an absurd question to ask. Why would ALL of any population engage in any one thing at all. Maxwell said what he said the same way someone could say "sex breeds offspring," even though ALL shags don't result in a pregnancy... Of course not all poor people will turn to crime, like not all corporate tycoons will commit white collar crimes. But even you must admit that it is much easier for a poor indigent who figures he has nothing to lose to commit a crime than someone with a future to protect. I was fortunate enough to have been reared by responsible parents who were by no means rich, but certainly not paupers. I was fortunate enough to go to schools in good areas because my parents could afford to live in those areas. These are the reasons that I have a good head on my shoulders and why I do have a future to protect. A promising future is a good reason to stay out of trouble. But some poor kid (no matter what the colour) in the inner city or even in a poor, drug-infested, one-horse town whose parents are not responsible (not his fault), or who are responsible but just don't make enough to live in a good school district (not his fault)... this kid stands little chance against people like me in the real world... and it's not his fault he was born poor. He is much more likely to turn to drugs and crime than I am, because what reason does he see not to?

It's not so much of a race thing as it is a sex thing:

Percent of death row that is male: 98.6

98.6%.  Talk about sexism.

Giving due consideration to the issue at hand, and taking into account the important statistics and percentages cited by knowledgeable authorities in this thread, there is only one intelligent, rational conclusion.

If 98.6 % of prisoners on death row are MALE, that reinforces the already well-documented statistic that the vast majority of felonies in America are committed by MALE Americans.

Since a particular authority has stated that it is not a "race thing", that directly implies that the vast majority of the felonies committed in America are committed by WHITE MALE Americans.

Now, if we say hypothetically - only hypothetically, mind you - that O.J. Simpson beat his murder rap WITHOUT the benefit of being a WHITE male, but WITH the benefit of possessing social power and great wealth, we may extrapolate that those Americans who possess whiteness, maleness, social power & great wealth are either beating felony raps every day, or, more than likely, never even being brought to trial for their felonies. Furthermore, the Republican party being the party of the rich, it therefore follows that the vast majority of those white, male, socially powerful and wealthy un-caught felons are Republican, too.

Which leads to the only rational conclusion: that the vast majority of felons in America are white, male, socially powerful, wealthy, and Republican, who haven't been brought to justice because the justice system and the executive branch are both packed with white, male, socially powerful, wealthy Republicans, who haven't gotten caught ... yet ...


Most excellent, I say.

We in Georgia just had an execution:

Tuesday, January 25, 2005 · Last updated 6:07 p.m. PT

Georgia executes man for 1992 slaying

By HARRY R. WEBER
ASSOCIATED PRESS WRITER

JACKSON, Ga. -- A man was executed Tuesday for fatally stabbing a teenager and beating him with a baseball bat as he pleaded for his life during a robbery.

Timothy Don Carr, 34, received a lethal injection at the state prison in Jackson for killing 17-year-old Keith Patrick Young in October 1992. Carr was pronounced dead at 8:37 p.m.

"It's time for justice to be served," Carr said in his final statement. He also apologized to the victim's mother for any grief he may have caused her and told his family that he loved them.

Last-minute appeals and a clemency petition to the state parole board were denied. Carr's execution was Georgia's first this year and 37th since the Supreme Court reinstated the death penalty in 1973.

Prosecutors said Carr, his girlfriend Melissa Burgeson and two 16-year-olds drove Young in his car to a remote area about 65 miles southeast of Atlanta where Carr slashed his throat and beat him with a baseball bat. The two juveniles later testified that the victim pleaded for his life.

Young was left on the side of the road to die before Carr and Burgeson fled to Tennessee in the victim's car. They were arrested following a high-speed chase.

Carr was convicted in 1994 and sentenced to death. Burgeson was given a life sentence with the possibility of parole. One of the 16-year-olds received 18 months in juvenile detention and the other was not jailed.

Link: http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/apus_story.asp?category=1110&slug=Georgia%20Execution

Poverty does not breed crime...do you see all the white collar crime that has gone on?
If it does breed crime why aren't ALL people in the worst cities in jail?

You must think due to the figures of crime police INTENTIONALLY are looking for ethnicities to arrest first. This thinking does not hold up in the crime stat figures.

Just like saying color determines if you will work..THAT is a problem from the Govt.ASSISTING those with welfare programs..if there were no welfare, you'll se how fast people would find a job to keep busy!

 

My friend, you know better than that...and if you don't, then you'd better be religious, 'coz GOD HELP YOU!!!

My friend, you know better than that...and if you don't, then you'd better be religious, 'coz GOD HELP YOU!!!


But, didn't you say economic justice will help prevent crime?  And at that same time don't you talk of corporate crime?

going back to the race issue.  the point I thought people were going to make is that the death sentence is disproportionally applied depending on who the victim is.  Of the approximately 360 people executed between 1977 and 1998 83 % had been convicted of killing a white person although white people represent about 50% of all murder victims.  Depending on the state you are between 4 and 11 times more likely to be sentenced to death for killing a white person as you are a black person.

But, didn't you say economic justice will help prevent crime?  And at that same time don't you talk of corporate crime?


Yes, and as a Bush supporter, you don't really want to prompt the subject of "corporate crime," now do you?
Anyway, most of the wicked and heinous things corporations do are perfectly legal!
::)

Yes, and as a Bush supporter, you don't really want to prompt the subject of "corporate crime," now do you?
Anyway, most of the wicked and heinous things corporations do are perfectly legal!
::)


There are vast differences between corporate crimes (even those leading to the deaths of victims) and your typical murder.  The former are almost always cunningly planned and covered by all kinds of paper.  The typical murder is a crime of passion commited on the spur of the moment, or a hate crime such as the dragging death of a black man in Texas a few years ago, or the beating death of a young homosexual in Wyoming (don't remember the names). 

Killing is a killing...the train crash suspect is being charged with 11 counts of MURDER....
no mater what anyone tries to dress it up as...it is still murder..the ones that get under the door are Homicides..when a guy loses control of his car and it hits someone, they do that to him...as it wasn't intended...did the train guy INTEND to kill those passengers..if you leave a car on a track ..I guess that's what they'l do to him.

Killing is a killing...the train crash suspect is being charged with 11 counts of MURDER....
no mater what anyone tries to dress it up as...it is still murder..the ones that get under the door are Homicides..when a guy loses control of his car and it hits someone, they do that to him...as it wasn't intended...did the train guy INTEND to kill those passengers..if you leave a car on a track ..I guess that's what they'l do to him.


Ok, so lets take this crazy person and draw and quarter him in public.  Better yet, lets chain him to city hall and give anyone who wants one a knife - one cut each.  Lets make a real specticle of him.  Let him suffer, let him linger, let him bleed.  Take the kis, it will be great entertainment.  Is this what we are coming to?

Ok, so lets take this crazy person and draw and quarter him in public.  Better yet, lets chain him to city hall and give anyone who wants one a knife - one cut each.  Lets make a real specticle of him.  Let him suffer, let him linger, let him bleed.  Take the kis, it will be great entertainment.  Is this what we are coming to?


Maybe not.  It has been shown that since the "Innocence Project"  there has been a turnaround in regards to the death penalty in America.  Of course that could all change tomorrow, but right now a lot of people are wary about the way the death penalty is meted out, and rightfully so.
There are those who are driven by the need for revenge, and that emotion overrides any argument you can make.  Many believe it is ok for ten innocent people to die as long as the eleventh is guilty.

This guy didn't intend to kill anyone but himself...he shouldn't be charged with murder.


Right.  I was surprised when they said he would be charged with murder so quickly.  Weighing what
we have all heard so far they can only go as far as manslaughter. 

Ok, so lets take this crazy person and draw and quarter him in public.  Better yet, lets chain him to city hall and give anyone who wants one a knife - one cut each.  Lets make a real specticle of him.  Let him suffer, let him linger, let him bleed. 
I say we make the punishment fit the crime! Let's tie him to the railroad tracks and let trains run over him until he's a pile of bloody mush, then let's pour gasoline on his remains and dance around and around the pyre screaming Indian war-whoops!
:D

MICHAEL ROSS WILL BE EXECUTED IN ABOUT TWO-AND-A-HALF HOURS!  The first in New England in 45 years!

U.S. Supreme Court lifts stay, Ross faces execution at 2:01 AM

The U.S. Supreme Court has vacated the stay on Michael Ross' death sentence. That means the convicted serial killer will face execution at 2:01 a.m. Saturday.

Full article: http://www.wtnh.com/

MICHAEL ROSS WILL BE EXECUTED IN ABOUT TWO-AND-A-HALF HOURS!  The first in New England in 45 years!

U.S. Supreme Court lifts stay, Ross faces execution at 2:01 AM

The U.S. Supreme Court has vacated the stay on Michael Ross' death sentence. That means the convicted serial killer will face execution at 2:01 a.m. Saturday.

Full article: http://www.wtnh.com/


    Didn't happen

They're just playing the system.

California law in about 1896(circa),gave the death penalty to anyone who derailed a train to rob it, it didn't matter if anyone was hurt.

Some lawyer had to represent the latest derailer look at him try to spin the whole deal that the guy didn't intend to kill anyone..NO THE TRAIN WAS JUST GOING TO FLY OVER THE CAR ONN THE TRACKS LIKE MAGIC!!!

Give him a cell with a good strong rope or bed sheet..let him try all he wants from there.
Sounds like he was trying to showoff to the people who didn't care about him.
   

I say we make the punishment fit the crime! Let's tie him to the railroad tracks and let trains run over him until he's a pile of bloody mush, then let's pour gasoline on his remains and dance around and around the pyre screaming Indian war-whoops!
:D


The only thing I object to in this is the "Indian war-whoops" reference.  Lets do it, I'll bring the kids, and the grand kids. 

The only thing I object to in this is the "Indian war-whoops" reference.  Lets do it, I'll bring the kids, and the grand kids. 

Native American war-whoops?
;)

Native American war-whoops?
;)


Tee hee  ;)  How about knitting needles?

MICHAEL ROSS WILL BE EXECUTED IN ABOUT TWO-AND-A-HALF HOURS!  The first in New England in 45 years!

U.S. Supreme Court lifts stay, Ross faces execution at 2:01 AM

The U.S. Supreme Court has vacated the stay on Michael Ross' death sentence. That means the convicted serial killer will face execution at 2:01 a.m. Saturday.

Full article: http://www.wtnh.com/


didn't happen.... again

You know, I suppose I support the death penalty, but the attitude that often comes with it is plain sick. I hope the guys gets justice served somehow though.

didn't happen.... again


It did happen.

Link: http://www.newsday.com/news/local/wire/connecticut/ny-bc-ct--rossexecution0513may13,0,2533113.story?coll=ny-region-apconnecticut

It did happen.

Link: http://www.newsday.com/news/local/wire/connecticut/ny-bc-ct--rossexecution0513may13,0,2533113.story?coll=ny-region-apconnecticut

Michael Ross?
No big loss!

I can't say I feel sad that horrible sicko got the hot shot, I'm still against capital punishment on principle--even for a piece of sub-human excrement like Ross.

LOL... the best argument for it is one i heard about Osama BL..

He is prepared to die for Islam.. but he isn't prepared to lick Jello out of Bubba's asscrack for Islam  ;D

Would Bill Cosby be doing the commercial? ???  ;D

Excellent, one scumbag down.

Michael Ross?
No big loss!



Now if only the protesters/whiners outside his jail cell the day he got executed would admit that.

The only reason Michael Ross was a big deal is because he was the first execution in New England in about 45 years.  If I remember correctly, out of all the New England states, only New Hampshire and Connecticut allow the death penalty.

Excellent, one scumbag down.

Excellent is right.  Now Connecticut state taxpayers won't be paying for his food, drink, healthcare, and shelter any more.

Excellent, one scumbag down.


All respect gone.

All respect gone.


::)

Why exactly?

It's been proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that he was guilty, why burden the Taxpayers?

I understand not giving the death penalty when there is any doubt whatsoever, but this guy was GUILTY!

He admitted to his crimes.

A Rapist and a Murderer.. why would you not want him put to death?

::)

Why exactly?

It's been proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that he was guilty, why burden the Taxpayers?

I understand not giving the death penalty when there is any doubt whatsoever, but this guy was GUILTY!

He admitted to his crimes.

A Rapist and a Murderer.. why would you not want him put to death?


http://inthe00s.com/Themes/default/images/post/thumbup.gif

::)

Why exactly?

It's been proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that he was guilty, why burden the Taxpayers?

I understand not giving the death penalty when there is any doubt whatsoever, but this guy was GUILTY!

He admitted to his crimes.

A Rapist and a Murderer.. why would you not want him put to death?


For the very simple reason that we are the state, and when the state kills, it kills in MY NAME, and I abhore killing.  It baffles my mind that Christians have less regard for the Ten Commandments than Wiccans, Agnosits, and Athiests.  Isn't "Thou Shalt Not Kill" one of them, or am I mistaken?

You Christians get all hot and bothered about gay marriage, which is NOT condemned in the Commandments, but you celebrate the execution of a fellow human being, despicable has he/she may be, a human being.  So I reject your hypocritical, holier than thou, false religiosity, which has brought little else than pain and  suffering to humanity.

VENGANCE IS MINE, SAITH THE LORD

Yet you seem to feel justified in usurping the Lord's right.  Isn't that


BLASPHOMY?

For the very simple reason that we are the state, and when the state kills, it kills in MY NAME, and I abhore killing.  It baffles my mind that Christians have less regard for the Ten Commandments than Wiccans, Agnosits, and Athiests.  Isn't "Thou Shalt Not Kill" one of them, or am I mistaken?

You Christians get all hot and bothered about gay marriage, which is NOT condemned in the Commandments, but you celebrate the execution of a fellow human being, despicable has he/she may be, a human being.  So I reject your hypocritical, holier than thou, false religiosity, which has brought little else than pain and  suffering to humanity.
VENGANCE IS MINE, SAITH THE LORD
Yet you seem to feel justified in usurping the Lord's right.  Isn't that
BLASPHOMY?


First of all.. I am not a Christian, i'm not sure where you got that Impression.
I wouldn't know what the ten Commandments were...

You may abhore killing but the state legislature obviously dosen't.

I will once again repeat my stance on this.

If there is ANY! doubt whatsoever then the Death Penalty should not be used, however this man confessed to his crimes and Police proved that he commited the crimes, he was guilty of killing, he was guilty of rape and i wouldn't be suprised if he was guilty of a large number of other crimes.

Nobody is celebrating this.. actually tell a lie i'm sure we can all think of a long list of people that would do.. but no 'normal' people celebrate death, however If somebody does wrong, they should be punished to the fullest extent of the law. In your state, the full extent is death.

First of all.. I am not a Christian, i'm not sure where you got that Impression.
I wouldn't know what the ten Commandments were...


I thought I remember you writing you were a Christian, and that you were converting to Judism.

I thought I remember you writing you were a Christian, and that you were converting to Judism.


Yes that's right. I have never bought in to the Christian faith though. I've already discussed this before.. it was forced upon me from a young age.. and i saw through it all.

But back to the subject.

In your state, the full extent is death.


No, Vermont does NOT Have a death penalty and hasn't for decades, thank the Goddess.


First of all.. I am not a Christian, i'm not sure where you got that Impression.
I wouldn't know what the ten Commandments were...

You may abhore killing but the state legislature obviously dosen't.

I will once again repeat my stance on this.

If there is ANY! doubt whatsoever then the Death Penalty should not be used, however this man confessed to his crimes and Police proved that he commited the crimes, he was guilty of killing, he was guilty of rape and i wouldn't be suprised if he was guilty of a large number of other crimes.

Nobody is celebrating this.. actually tell a lie i'm sure we can all think of a long list of people that would do.. but no 'normal' people celebrate death, however If somebody does wrong, they should be punished to the fullest extent of the law. In your state, the full extent is death.



Yes that's right. I have never bought in to the Christian faith though. I've already discussed this before.. it was forced upon me from a young age.. and i saw through it all.

But back to the subject.


Wait!  How can you claim to be Jewish and plead ignorance of the Ten Commandments supposedly given to Moses on Mount Sini?

As to "the law", laws are man-made, and can be man-changed.  Just note the style of execution depicted in "Brave Heart".  That was "legal" at the time.

No, Vermont does NOT Have a death penalty and hasn't for decades, thank the Goddess.


I think he means Connecticut, the state that just executed Michael B. Ross.

and when the state kills, it kills in MY NAME, and I abhore killing.


You confused me with this part.. I assumed that when you said State you meant your state.. the one you live in. Evidently not.

I'm not going to go in to my religious convictions with anybody right now.. I have deep set issues with all major religions, I consider some of the guidelines usefull today and some not.

He's right Carlos.  You wrote you don't want the state killing in your name, yet Vermont doesn't even have the death penalty....just like you already wrote in this very thread.

He's right Carlos.  You wrote you don't want the state killing in your name, yet Vermont doesn't even have the death penalty....just like you already wrote in this very thread.


I was using "the state" as a political scientist.  "That form of government which claims a monopoly over the forces of cohersion".  Actually, there is a death penalty case about to be tried here in FEDERAL court.  Federal because the victim was kidnapped in Vermont and murdered in New York.

First of all.. I am not a Christian, i'm not sure where you got that Impression.
I wouldn't know what the ten Commandments were...

You may abhore killing but the state legislature obviously dosen't.

I will once again repeat my stance on this.

If there is ANY! doubt whatsoever then the Death Penalty should not be used, however this man confessed to his crimes and Police proved that he commited the crimes, he was guilty of killing, he was guilty of rape and i wouldn't be suprised if he was guilty of a large number of other crimes.

Nobody is celebrating this.. actually tell a lie i'm sure we can all think of a long list of people that would do.. but no 'normal' people celebrate death, however If somebody does wrong, they should be punished to the fullest extent of the law. In your state, the full extent is death.

The statement "one scumbag down" reeks of the righteous indignation most cherished by the Christian Right and all those who never shut up about how they wanna protect "the kids." 

What death penalty fanatics never understand is WHY I still object to the execution of Michael Ross, even though I find his crimes incalculably cruel.  I object to it because I am against the death penalty.  Period.  To support the execution of Ross and other "scumbags" is to support the death penalty.  To object to the death penalty does NOT mean you like murderers.  I shouldn't have to explain this.