» OLD MESSAGE ARCHIVES «
The Pop Culture Information Society...
Messageboard Archive Index, In The 00s - The Pop Culture Information Society

Welcome to the archived messages from In The 00s. This archive stretches back to 1998 in some instances, and contains a nearly complete record of all the messages posted to inthe00s.com. You will also find an archive of the messages from inthe70s.com, inthe80s.com, inthe90s.com and amiright.com before they were combined to form the inthe00s.com messageboard.

If you are looking for the active messages, please click here. Otherwise, use the links below or on the right hand side of the page to navigate the archives.

Custom Search



Subject: NATIONAL...self-defense bill filed.

Written By: GWBush2004 on 01/13/05 at 10:00 am

'Self-Defense' Bill Introduced in House of Representatives
By Susan Jones
CNSNews.com Morning Editor
January 12, 2005

(CNSNews.com) - A Maryland Republican has introduced a bill protecting the right of law-abiding Americans to use guns in self-defense.

The proposed Citizens' Self-Defense Act of 2005, introduced last week by Rep. Roscoe Bartlett of Maryland, would specifically protect the right of law-abiding citizens to use handguns, rifles and shotguns in defending themselves, their families or their homes.

The bill also would allow people whose self-defense rights have been violated by any government entity to bring legal action in federal court.

The bill, H.R. 47, has been referred to the House Committee on the Judiciary. It has the "enthusiastic support" of the Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms (CCRKBA), which is urging swift consideration of the bill.

John Michael Snyder, CCRKBA's public affairs director, noted that tens of millions of law-abiding, gun-owning Americans voted in November. "Now that the 109th Congress has begun its first session, and as we prepare for the presidential inauguration, we intend to continue to carry the political fight to the opponents," he said.

"For far too long, the decent, law-abiding gun owners of America have been on the receiving end of political assaults and restrictive legislative proposals emanating from the ranks of an elitist gun-grabbing establishment. Now, though, the tide is turning," he said.

"America is ready to really sock it to the anti-gun media, entertainment personalities, and ecclesiastical holier-than-thous, and the political lapdogs who try to work their wretched will."

CCRKBA says it is determined to make the individual right to "keep and bear arms" an indisputable matter of public policy.

Link: http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewNation.asp?Page=\Nation\archive\200501\NAT20050112a.html

--Thoughts?

Subject: Re: NATIONAL...self-defense bill filed.

Written By: MaxwellSmart on 01/13/05 at 11:19 am




"America is ready to really sock it to the anti-gun media, entertainment personalities, and ecclesiastical holier-than-thous, and the political lapdogs who try to work their wretched will."



--Thoughts?

I like this guy's phraseology!
;D

It's important to remember, however, that the ecclesiastical holier than thous are largely on the conservative Republican side, thus not opposed to gun ownership.  Sure, there are some liberal Catholics, Congregationalists, Quakers, and Unitarians who are pro-gun control, but who cares what they say?  Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell rock the world!

I have no problem with the right of "law-abiding" folks to keep and bear arms.  I just hope those guys with all the shotguns, rifles, and pistols decide to stay on the right side of the law!
:o

Subject: Re: NATIONAL...self-defense bill filed.

Written By: Don Carlos on 01/13/05 at 4:09 pm

The pro-gun mantra has always been "guns don't kill people, people kill people".  There is truth in that, but as Michaewl Moore pointed out in Bowling for Colombine, there are more guns in Canada, per capita, than in the states, but the gun murder rate is far lower.  One has to ask why.

Subject: Re: NATIONAL...self-defense bill filed.

Written By: GWBush2004 on 01/13/05 at 4:51 pm


there are more guns in Canada, per capita, than in the states, but the gun murder rate is far lower.  One has to ask why.


Because they have more guns?  One part of Georgia REQUIRES all non-felons, and at least 18 (or 21) to carry a gun.  It has the lowest or one of the lowest in the state and the country.  I can't remember the city, but I think it's Kennesaw.

Subject: Re: NATIONAL...self-defense bill filed.

Written By: danootaandme on 01/13/05 at 5:54 pm


Because they have more guns?  One part of Georgia REQUIRES all non-felons, and at least 18 (or 21) to carry a gun.  It has the lowest or one of the lowest in the state and the country.  I can't remember the city, but I think it's Kennesaw.


www.rense.com/general9/gunlaw.htm

This explains the law.  It does say that anyone who doesn't want to own one can file as a conscientious
objector.  I think requiring someone to have a gun at home is as insidious as saying they can't.  I think
having one is a good idea, but I would not begin to force anyone else into it.  Having to register to not own a gun goes beyond the pale.  ???

Subject: Re: NATIONAL...self-defense bill filed.

Written By: GWBush2004 on 01/13/05 at 6:50 pm


www.rense.com/general9/gunlaw.htm

This explains the law.  It does say that anyone who doesn't want to own one can file as a conscientious
objector.  I think requiring someone to have a gun at home is as insidious as saying they can't.  I think
having one is a good idea, but I would not begin to force anyone else into it.  Having to register to not own a gun goes beyond the pale.  ???


Well, look I got it right.  I live very close to Kennesaw, Georgia....very close.

Who would rob a store or a bank in Kennesaw?  I know I wouldn't.

Subject: Re: NATIONAL...self-defense bill filed.

Written By: GWBush2004 on 01/13/05 at 6:51 pm


Having to register to not own a gun goes beyond the pale.  ???


Not as much as having to register to own a gun via background checks and state-computer bases.

Subject: Re: NATIONAL...self-defense bill filed.

Written By: Don Carlos on 01/16/05 at 5:04 pm


Not as much as having to register to own a gun via background checks and state-computer bases.


Wait a sec here.  The neocon mantra is that if guns are controlled, only felons will own guns.  Without background checks that would be so much easier.  Any dork who wanted to kill his wife (or her boyfriend) could just go buy a 747 magnum.  Is that what you want?

By the way, yesterday, on a three hour drive, I was cut off and almost rammed by at least 4 other drivers.  I think I need an anti-tank gun to mount on my car, and access to live ammo.  Let some a..hole cut me off then.  kaboom.

Subject: Re: NATIONAL...self-defense bill filed.

Written By: Dagwood on 01/16/05 at 8:30 pm



www.rense.com/general9/gunlaw.htm

This explains the law. It does say that anyone who doesn't want to own one can file as a conscientious
objector. I think requiring someone to have a gun at home is as insidious as saying they can't. I think
having one is a good idea, but I would not begin to force anyone else into it. Having to register to not own a gun goes beyond the pale. ???


I agree with you, Danoota.  I don't want to limit law abiding citizens rights to own guns, although some of them scare me.  I hear stories of people carrying guns "to thwart crime".  Average citizen with gun scares me more than criminal sometimes.  I say leave enforcing the law to the police.  I also think background checks are a good thing.  I know they won't stop most criminals from getting guns, but they still stop some people from getting them who shouldn't have them. (I dislike guns and will never own one because I wouldn't ever touch the thing)


By the way, yesterday, on a three hour drive, I was cut off and almost rammed by at least 4 other drivers. I think I need an anti-tank gun to mount on my car, and access to live ammo. Let some a..hole cut me off then. kaboom.


;D

Subject: Re: NATIONAL...self-defense bill filed.

Written By: GWBush2004 on 01/17/05 at 8:29 am

40 reasons to support gun control:

1. Banning guns works, which is why New York, DC, and Chicago cops need guns.
2. Washington DC's low murder rate of 80.6 per 100,000 is due to strict gun control, and Arlington, VA's high murder rate of 1.6 per 100,000 is due to the lack of gun control.
3. Statistics showing high murder rates justify gun control but statistics showing increasing murder rates after gun control are "just statistics."
4. The Brady Bill and the Assault Weapons Ban, both of which went into effect in 1994, are responsible for the decrease in violent crime rates, which have been declining since 1991.
5. We must get rid of guns because a deranged lunatic may go on a shooting spree at any time and anyone who would own a gun out of fear of such a lunatic is paranoid.
6. The more helpless you are the safer you are from criminals.
7. An intruder will be incapacitated by tear gas or oven spray, but if shot with a .357 Magnum will get angry and kill you.
8. A woman raped and strangled is morally superior to a woman with a smoking gun and a dead rapist at her feet.
9. When confronted by violent criminals, you should "put up no defense give them what they want, or run" (Handgun Control Inc. Chairman Pete Shields, Guns Don't Die - People Do, 1981, p. 125).
10. The New England Journal of Medicine is filled with expert advice about guns; just like Guns and Ammo has some excellent treatises on heart surgery.
11. One should consult an automotive engineer for safer seatbelts, a civil engineer for a better bridge, a surgeon for spinal paralysis, a computer programmer for Y2K problems, and Sarah Brady for firearms expertise.
12. The 2nd Amendment, ratified in 1791, refers to the National Guard, which was created by an act of Congress in 1903.
13. The National Guard, funded by the federal government, occupying property leased to the federal government, using weapons owned by the federal government, punishing trespassers under federal law, is a state militia.
14. These phrases," right of the people peaceably to assemble," "right of the people to be secure in their homes," "enumeration's herein of certain rights shall not be construed to disparage others retained by the people," and "The powers not delegated herein are reserved to the states respectively, and to the people," all refer to individuals, but "the right of the people to keep and bear arms" refers to the state.
15. We don't need guns against an oppressive government, because the Constitution has internal safeguards, but we should ban and seize all guns, thereby violating the 2nd, 4th, and 5th amendments to that Constitution.
16. Rifles and handguns aren't necessary to national defense, which is why the army has millions of them.
17. Private citizens shouldn't have handguns, because they serve no military purpose, and private citizens shouldn't have "assault rifles," because they are military weapons.
18. The ready availability of guns today, with waiting periods, background checks, fingerprinting, government forms, et cetera, is responsible for recent school shootings,compared to the lack of school shootings in the 40's, 50's and 60's, which resulted from the availability of guns at hardware stores, surplus stores, gas stations, variety stores, mail order, et cetera.
19. The NRA's attempt to run a "don't touch" campaign about kids handling guns is propaganda, and the anti-gun lobby's attempt to run a "don't touch" campaign is responsible social activity.
20. Guns are so complex that special training is necessary to use them properly, and so simple to use that they make murder easy.
21. A handgun, with up to 4 controls, is far too complex for the typical adult to learn to use, as opposed to an automobile that only has 20.
22. Women are just as intelligent and capable as men but a woman with a gun is "an accident waiting to happen" and gun makers' advertisements aimed at women are "preying on their fears."
23. Ordinary people in the presence of guns turn into slaughtering butchers but revert to normal when the weapon is removed.
24. Guns cause violence, which is why there are so many mass killings at gun shows.
25. A majority of the population supports gun control, just like a majority of the population supported owning slaves.
26. A self-loading small arm can legitimately be considered to be a "weapon of mass destruction" or an "assault weapon."
27. Most people can't be trusted, so we should have laws against guns, which most people will abide by because they can be trusted.
28. The right of online pornographers to exist cannot be questioned because it is constitutionally protected by the Bill of Rights, but the use of handguns for self defense is not really protected by the Bill of Rights.
29. Free speech entitles one to own newspapers, transmitters, computers, and typewriters, but self-defense only justifies bare hands.
30. The ACLU is good because it uncompromisingly defends certain parts of the Constitution, and the NRA is bad, because it defends other parts of the Constitution.
31. Charlton Heston as president of the NRA is a shill who should be ignored, but Michael Douglas as a representative of Handgun Control, Inc. is an ambassador for peace who is entitled to an audience at the UN arms control summit.
32. Police operate with backup within groups, which is why they need larger capacity pistol magazines than do "civilians" who must face criminals alone and therefore need less ammunition.
33. We should ban "Saturday Night Specials" and other inexpensive guns because it's not fair that poor people have access to guns too.
34. Police officers, who qualify with their duty weapons once or twice a year, have some special Jedi-like mastery over handguns that private citizens can never hope to obtain.
35. Private citizens don't need a gun for self-protection because the police are there to protect them even though the Supreme Court says the police are not responsible for their protection.
36. Citizens don't need to carry a gun for personal protection but police chiefs, who are desk-bound administrators who work in a building filled with cops, need a gun.
37. "Assault weapons" have no purpose other than to kill large numbers of people, which is why the police need them but "civilians" do not.
38. When Microsoft pressures its distributors to give Microsoft preferential promotion, that's bad; but when the Federal government pressures cities to buy guns only from Smith & Wesson, that's good.
39. Trigger locks do not interfere with the ability to use a gun for defensive purposes, which is why you see police officers with one on their duty weapon.
40. When Handgun Control, Inc., says they want to "keep guns out of the wrong hands," they don't mean you. Really.

Subject: Re: NATIONAL...self-defense bill filed.

Written By: Don Carlos on 01/17/05 at 3:07 pm


40 reasons to support gun control:



Your 40 reasons are, as with much of right wing diatribes, mostly half truths.  I do agree, though, tyhat the 2nd amendment applies to individuals even though you gloss over the fact that state militias preceed the National Guard by many decades.  In fact, cumpulsory militia service was one of the biggest gripes of tyhe "Working Men's Parties" of the 1820's.

I also note that you didn't respond to my anti-tank gun comment.  Should I be allowed to mount one on my car, and be able to fire it?

In either The Sociological Imagination or The Causes of World War Three (I forget which) C. Wright Mills refers to power as being represented by the rifle over the mantle piece and the roll of government was to watch in the night.  In the days when the 2nd amendment was pass, the hunting rifle was a weapon superior to the muskets most armies used as standard equipment.  Today, evan if you were armed with an asault rife, what would be your chances against a tank, or even a hummvee armed with a 50 calibre machine gun? " How many masses does it take to stop a tank?" - Salvador Allende

Subject: Re: NATIONAL...self-defense bill filed.

Written By: MaxwellSmart on 01/17/05 at 3:31 pm


Your 40 reasons are, as with much of right wing diatribes, mostly half truths.

What did you expect, Aristotle, Kant, Einstein?
:D
 
I do agree, though, tyhat the 2nd amendment applies to individuals even though you gloss over the fact that state militias preceed the National Guard by many decades.  In fact, cumpulsory militia service was one of the biggest gripes of tyhe "Working Men's Parties" of the 1820's.
Constitutional scholars tend to agree the intent was for the individual, but what would the Framers think of a governmetn willing to run roughshod over the Bill of Righs, except the second and tenth amendments.  Well, I don't see the Bushies shafting the third amendment, but I wouldn't put it past 'em to quarter soldiers in private homes!
:D

I also note that you didn't respond to my anti-tank gun comment.  Should I be allowed to mount one on my car, and be able to fire it?
Of course you have the right to anti-tank weapons.  Congress shall make no laws abridging the rights to keep and bear arms.  An anti-tank gun is an arm.  I mean, you have to buy your major munitions on the free market, of course, don't expect the U.S. government to cut you a break, unless you're a likable Third World dicator.

In either The Sociological Imagination or The Causes of World War Three (I forget which) C. Wright Mills refers to power as being represented by the rifle over the mantle piece and the roll of government was to watch in the night.  In the days when the 2nd amendment was pass, the hunting rifle was a weapon superior to the muskets most armies used as standard equipment.  Today, evan if you were armed with an asault rife, what would be your chances against a tank, or even a hummvee armed with a 50 calibre machine gun? " How many masses does it take to stop a tank?" - Salvador Allende

I dunno, Sal, ask Henry Kissinger!

Subject: Re: NATIONAL...self-defense bill filed.

Written By: JamieMcBain on 01/17/05 at 10:36 pm

People who own wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too many guns.... scare me, and so does the NRA.  ::)  ;D

Subject: Re: NATIONAL...self-defense bill filed.

Written By: GWBush2004 on 01/18/05 at 4:59 am


Your 40 reasons are, as with much of right wing diatribes, mostly half truths. 


I see none...why don't you, Maxwell, or Philbo, or another "thinking" liberal quote some of them and tell me how they are wrong or half-truths.

Subject: Re: NATIONAL...self-defense bill filed.

Written By: Don Carlos on 01/18/05 at 4:34 pm


I see none...why don't you, Maxwell, or Philbo, or another "thinking" liberal quote some of them and tell me how they are wrong or half-truths.


As for me, the reason is that for you neocons, facts are mearly anacronistic nusances to be avoided, especilly when they call your cherished ideological convcictions into question.  Most other readers of this political section aleady see through your assertions, so refuting your half truths is like preaching to the choir, and dealing with you, who obviously can't be swayed, is a waste of time that I would rather spend making love to my (still) new wife, or evan having a root canal.

Check for new replies or respond here...