I just found out that people who are HIV positive are not allowed to enter the US. What are your opinions on this..? Good, bad, little bit of both...? I don't know yet. It doesn't seem right that we should deny people entry because they have HIV, but then again we have to protect ourselves... I just don't know yet. What do you think, everybody?

Seems kind of draconian to me: after all, HIV is not particularly contagious (which is lucky, or we'd all have it by now) - the people who *know* they've got it aren't going to be the problem, it's the people who don't who'll cause the problems.  And since they can't be testing everyone for HIV on the border, they're assuming those who know they're infected will tick the box... sounds more like punishing honesty to me :-\\

Where did you hear this?  Is there a link to a story?  It doesn't sound right to me.

I too would like to know the source for this, though I don't doubt it.  HIV is a long-term fatal illness that costs tons of money to treat.  The U.S. only helps it's own citizens begrudgingly.  If the government thought they could get away with it, they'd probably DEPORT U.S. citizens with HIV!

This is true, and has been around a long time.  People with HIV, and in some cases "high risk groups" have
to get "special permission" to enter the country.  This has been used as a tool for denying entrance to
Haitians and Africans as being in high risk groups.

Are you kidding me?  :o

Tanya

When I was looking for some information on Swedish immigration laws I came upon a site that was outlining the general rules and stipulations regarding entry into the U.S. Unfortunately I can't find that site again, but I have found another which explains some of the laws regarding HIV and immigration. It isn't a thorough explanation, but it gives you a general idea. It says "persons with communicable diseases that are considered significant public health risks are inadmissible.  Among these diseases are HIV and tuberculosis."

Here is a link. http://www.visalaw.com/01jul2/12jul201.html

Seems kind of draconian to me

Guess not.

Guess not.

There is a difference between immigration and entry into the country...

Well, you can't get a visa to enter Russia if you're HIV positive, and that probably applies to any number of other countries, so it's not as though the U.S. is doing anything uniquely self-protecting there...

I can't wait for the day they announce they've come up with a safe and effective vaccine and/or cure for AIDS.  Boy, that'll be one helluva party. People are gonna be f**king in the STREETS!!!
:o :o :o

I can't wait for the day they announce they've come up with a safe and effective vaccine and/or cure for AIDS.  Boy, that'll be one helluva party. People are gonna be f**king in the STREETS!!!
:o :o :o

As soon as the cure AIDS, something ten times worse will come on the scene.  The new one will have the following distinguishing sign: the second you begin to engage in sexual congress you explode into a million pieces!
:o

As soon as the cure AIDS, something ten times worse will come on the scene.  The new one will have the following distinguishing sign: the second you begin to engage in sexual congress you explode into a million pieces!
:o
You know, I think that'd be rather entertaining. You could go climb up on your roof at about 11 pm and listen to all the people blow up!

As soon as the cure AIDS, something ten times worse will come on the scene.  The new one will have the following distinguishing sign: the second you begin to engage in sexual congress you explode into a million pieces!
:o
(Also, that would give new meaning to Barney Fife's old saying, "These hands are lethal weapons!!!")
;D ;D ;D

You know, I think that'd be rather entertaining. You could go climb up on your roof at about 11 pm and listen to all the people blow up!

It would certainly change the meaning of a blow job ;)

It would certainly change the meaning of a blow job ;)
Actually, it would work out great for Al-Qaeda. They'd have a lot easier time recruiting suicide bombers. They could just have some kid run into a crowded place, whip it out and start playing with himself, and the next thing you know,
http://www.matthawkins.co.uk/guts-se/graphics/end_credits/bomb.jpg!!!

As soon as the cure AIDS, something ten times worse will come on the scene.  The new one will have the following distinguishing sign: the second you begin to engage in sexual congress you explode into a million pieces!


Didn't Eddie Murphy predict this? :)

And just to come back to the issue at hand, I think all countries have the right to refuse entry to anyone that may consistute a risk, whether it be actual or perceived. An HIV-positive person may be well responsible enough not to go around infecting people (like one German reprobate did in SE Asia recently), but what if they are involved in an accident where body fluids are spilled, and someone treats them not knowing they're HIV positive, and ends up getting it themselves? This sort of thing can happen even with the HIV-positive people who are already in the country. The risk only increases if more of them enter. As much as it's a terrible disease, HIV isn't actually that easy to get (when compared to something like TB or cholera, for example), but it's still a fatal, transmissable disease with no cure. It might not be the sufferer's fault they have it, but it is a nation's responsibiliity to its citizens to protect them from potentially dangerous threats, and a line has to be drawn somewhere.

And just to come back to the issue at hand, I think all countries have the right to refuse entry to anyone that may consistute a risk, whether it be actual or perceived. An HIV-positive person may be well responsible enough not to go around infecting people (like one German reprobate did in SE Asia recently), but what if they are involved in an accident where body fluids are spilled, and someone treats them not knowing they're HIV positive, and ends up getting it themselves? This sort of thing can happen even with the HIV-positive people who are already in the country. The risk only increases if more of them enter. As much as it's a terrible disease, HIV isn't actually that easy to get (when compared to something like TB or cholera, for example), but it's still a fatal, transmissable disease with no cure. It might not be the sufferer's fault they have it, but it is a nation's responsibiliity to its citizens to protect them from potentially dangerous threats, and a line has to be drawn somewhere.


I agree with you. The US is one of many countries who limits/denies the entry of HIV positives. While I don't think is desirable, it might be a necessary evil. I could also think of a lot of other ways our government could be (ahem) protecting us as well. In any case, I presented this with an open mind and an undecided position, but this is where I was leaning to. While I don't like the fact that we are forced to deny entry to HIV positive people, I don't think it is an irresponsible decision. Unfortuantely, I suspect it is used most often as an excuse to prevent the entry of Africans and West Indians into the country.

Didn't Eddie Murphy predict this? :)

Yes, more bluntly worded!

I do not look at this as a political question at all.  To me, this is simply the US Government doing it's job.

Historically, people have been denied entry to countries (and even cities) if they are infected with a contagious disease.  This is especially more so if it is a deadly disease.  Just check out what happened to those on "Plague Ships" in the 18th centry and before.  The common tactic then was to simply tie up the ship at anchor, and wait for everybody on it to either die, or to recover from the disease.

And waivers are frequently given to allow entry to this (and other) countries.  In the US, the waiver requires a doctors certification to the current health of the applicant.  But many countries do not have any kind of waiver, and forbid all entry by HIV infected people.

http://www.usembassy.org.uk/cons_web/visa/niv/add_hiv.htm

This is true, and has been around a long time. People with HIV, and in some cases "high risk groups" have
to get "special permission" to enter the country. This has been used as a tool for denying entrance to
Haitians and Africans as being in high risk groups.
Another way that BIGOTS operate here in the States...hey people,White Protestants get AIDS too. And not always from engaging in questionable sexual acts...!

I often wonder how many people who post bigoted stuff on the Web are just teenage or college age hackers who think 'it's just an innocent prank! I never meant to hurt anyone!'

That's just WRONG.  They're not going to poison everyone they come into contact with.  If they have sex, they more than likely will have told their partner beforehand.  I swear, this country's becoming more and more restrictive every day.

I thought it was "United, we stand; divided we fall", not "Republican rich white hiv- heterosexual christian men who aren't handicapped get everything, but don't whine, we don't like that".

Sorry for that running sentence.

One of my close friends is a South African, he reckons the main factor in the spread of HIV is white visitors to S. Africa "sleeping" unprotected with prostitutes, many of whom are infected. Any idea how the US would deal with one of their own citizens whom caught HIV abroad, but was planning to return to the US?

One of my close friends is a South African, he reckons the main factor in the spread of HIV is white visitors to S. Africa "sleeping" unprotected with prostitutes, many of whom are infected. Any idea how the US would deal with one of their own citizens whom caught HIV abroad, but was planning to return to the US?


The problem is the incubation time would probably mean he would be back in the States before the disease could even be detected.

The problem is the incubation time would probably mean he would be back in the States before the disease could even be detected.

Yep, I did consider that. Are the US testing people at the point of entry, or are they relying on the potential entrant being already registered as HIV+? Either way, I'd agree it's not unusual for countries to set up this sort of policy, and can see the pragmatism in it. I live in the UK, we seem to have very little in the way of controlling immigration here; I'd like to see some pragmatism in our policies, but I don't hold out much hope...

I often wonder how many people who post bigoted stuff on the Web


Don't go pulling a Jesse Jackson (Jacka**)

http://stonegiant.com/Politics/racecard.jpg

One of my close friends is a South African, he reckons the main factor in the spread of HIV is white visitors to S. Africa "sleeping" unprotected with prostitutes, many of whom are infected. Any idea how the US would deal with one of their own citizens whom caught HIV abroad, but was planning to return to the US?


It doesn't matter when, where, or how,  they contracted HIV, citizens have the right of return.

Immigration restrictions have been in place for over a Century, focusing on both nationality (quotas for each country) and health issues.  I have no problem with the health thing, but the quotas I think are racist and uncalled for.

I have no problem with the health thing,


I agree.

It doesn't matter when, where, or how,  they contracted HIV, citizens have the right of return.


Thanks for that. So if you're American & have lived abroad for a bit & caught HIV, you'd still be allowed back in? Seems only fair, I suppose, but obviously an American citizen still has the same potential to infect as any other person with HIV. I'm not sure if we do anything similar here in the UK, but I do know there was a scandal a while ago because it was suggested nurses coming to work in the UK should be compulsarily tested for HIV.

I'm not sure if we do anything similar here in the UK, but I do know there was a scandal a while ago because it was suggested nurses coming to work in the UK should be compulsarily tested for HIV.


That sounds reasonable, but it shouldn't be limited to HIV.  I think, I may be wrong, that here they have
to be tested for TB, Hepatitis(much easily communicated than HIV, and HIV) .  Hepatitis is way more
of a threat.

The problem is the incubation time would probably mean he would be back in the States before the disease could even be detected.


The fact that that person had AIDS would not matter. A born citizen has an unconditional right to be here. That goes for most born citizens of most states.

Seems kind of draconian to me: .... - the people who *know* they've got it aren't going to be the problem,

Who told you that?

There are TENS OF THOUSANDS of AIDS victims in the USA, and MILLIONS of victims in Africa, who got AIDS from somebody who already knew they had the dreaded disease.

Case in point:  Legendary porn star John C. Holmes was diagnosed with AIDS in 1986, yet continued making explicit porno films through 1987.  He lied to his costars and tole them that he had colon cancer to explain his gaunt appearance.

An employee of mine also served on a Grand Jury in a case where a person who knew they had AIDS was flagrantly infecting other people.

Who told you that?

There are TENS OF THOUSANDS of AIDS victims in the USA, and MILLIONS of victims in Africa, who got AIDS from somebody who already knew they had the dreaded disease.

Case in point:  Legendary porn star John C. Holmes was diagnosed with AIDS in 1986, yet continued making explicit porno films through 1987.  He lied to his costars and tole them that he had colon cancer to explain his gaunt appearance.

An employee of mine also served on a Grand Jury in a case where a person who knew they had AIDS was flagrantly infecting other people.

Two things about AIDS and Africa---
There's an intractable cultural resistance among African men to the use of condoms.  The results are tragic.  AIDS in sub-Saharan Africa is a bona-fide plague which is starting to depopulate whole regions.  Not to trivialize AIDS in Europe and America, but depopulation is not a problem we are facing.

John C. Holmes and other miscreants who deliberately or irresponsibly infect others after they know they are infected is a different phenomenon from the AIDS plagues in Africa and parts of Asia.

John C. Holmes and other miscreants who deliberately or irresponsibly infect others after they know they are infected is a different phenomenon from the AIDS plagues in Africa and parts of Asia.


I beg to differ.  A not-unusual thing that happens in Africa is for an AIDS-infested man to rape a two MONTH old baby because they think that it will "cure" them of AIDS.

Many people who have AIDS (by no means the majority, though) get the idea that society has screwed them and that they must exact their "revenge" for their fate.  So they deliberately have relations with unsuspecting victims.  Getting AIDS does not make one a saint any more than it makes someone a criminal.  Bur that said, plenty of sociopaths get AIDS and they then inflict their infection upon others.

Fortunately, none of the porn stars with whom John C. Holmes performed with after he was diagnosed with AIDS  (and that includes the member of Italian Parliament, Cicciolina) ever contracted AIDS.

Quote from: MaxwellSmart on January 15, 2005, 06:23:42 PM

John C. Holmes and other miscreants who deliberately or irresponsibly infect others after they know they are infected is a different phenomenon from the AIDS plagues in Africa and parts of Asia.
Quote from:LyricBoy on January 15, 2005, 09:35;43 pm
I beg to differ.  A not-unusual thing that happens in Africa is for an AIDS-infested man to rape a two MONTH old baby because they think that it will "cure" them of AIDS.

Many people who have AIDS (by no means the majority, though) get the idea that society has screwed them and that they must exact their "revenge" for their fate.  So they deliberately have relations with unsuspecting victims.  Getting AIDS does not make one a saint any more than it makes someone a criminal.  Bur that said, plenty of sociopaths get AIDS and they then inflict their infection upon others.

Fortunately, none of the porn stars with whom John C. Holmes performed with after he was diagnosed with AIDS  (and that includes the member of Italian Parliament, Cicciolina) ever contracted AIDS.

Are we not supposed to have empathy for ANYONE with HIV/AIDS,LyricBoy? Such as people who get AIDS from a tainted batch of clotting factor(Ryan White R.I.P.) or an HIV/AIDS infected doctor,dentist,or other health care worker(Kimberly Bergalis got AIDS from her dentist and it killed her)....these VICTIMS did not 'ask for' AIDS...and certainly did not use their illness to harm others...