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Messageboard Archive Index, In The 00s - The Pop Culture Information Society
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Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Full_House_Fan on 03/16/05 at 12:58 am
I do too, but as a survivor, it makes my blood boil when people try to use the "but he denied it at first" defense. I checked in my psych book and there have been studies done on victims of molestation...the stats varied from 87% to 96% of victims in various studies who have initially denied claims that they were molested. There was even a case of a woman who was molested as a young teen, became pregnant, gave birth, and kept the secret for over 70 years, until her son passed away :(
That's terrible :\'( I now understand why many think it's up there with murder. I don't think it's quite THAT bad, at least not to me personally, but I can imagine how some might feel that way. It is truly tragic.
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Robbo on 03/16/05 at 1:39 am
How many out of those 87% - 96% have a background of making false allegations against celebrities and big companies for their own financial gain? Or are driven by a district attorney who hates the defendant with a passion, and has been scheming a way to take him down for over ten years now? Or how about this. How many of thos 96% were allegedly molested by a celebrity, and not any celebrity, one of the most famous names in music?
The defence are kickin some serious @$$, and they are doing so well that come the time they have to present their case, they will have the jury eating out of their hand.
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Robbo on 03/16/05 at 2:10 am
We've got alot of puzzle pieces, and it's getting clearer and clearer each day how to put them together. We've got the edges and the corners, but we're still missing all the pieces in the middle. So far, from gathering the puzzle pieces and putting them together, this is what we've learnt.
I wonder WTF Stevie Wonder, Diana Ross and all them have to do with the case? I have an idea, but not 100% sure if it's right. Would be cool if it was right. I think I heard Michael actually say something about it in very early 2003 (January, February) about it, so it could be right.
I think Michael and a whole lot of celebrity singers got together to record a song like We Are The World, but a song furious, angry song about racism, instead of the soft and subtle peace song Michael usually records in these situations (e.g. We Are The World, What More Can I Give). I think this was recorded on the same day the alleged molestation happened.
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Howard on 03/16/05 at 5:44 pm
SANTA MARIA, California (CNN) -- The lead investigator in the Michael Jackson child molestation case testified Wednesday that the police probe remains active.
"We're currently continuing to investigate this case," Santa Barbara County deputy sheriff Sgt. Steve Robel said during testimony in Jackson's trial. "We're also having other people come forward."
Robel did not provide details. His comments came in response to a suggestion by defense attorney Robert Sanger that investigators prematurely searched Jackson's Neverland Ranch when they should have first gathered more information.
Robel also said authorities had obtained a search warrant and an arrest warrant for Jackson before investigators went to Neverland on November 18, 2003, to search the property. Jackson was arrested two days later.
Robel said investigators decided to draw up a search warrant and serve it when they did because of concerns that "evidence would be destroyed or not be there."
He testified that items found in Jackson's home matched items mentioned in police interviews with his accuser and members of his family, including a life-sized mannequin of a young black girl; a jukebox in the ranch's arcade that concealed an entrance to a wine cellar; and a briefcase containing sexually explicit material.
Robel also said that during his initial interview with Jackson's teenage accuser, the boy's demeanor underwent "a major change," and he became "very quiet" when he was asked to detail sexual allegations involving Jackson.
"He folded his arms, and he sank down in his chair," Robel said, adding that it took him 10 minutes to reassure the boy that he was doing the right thing by coming forward.
The boy, now 15, was 13 when he says Jackson molested him while they were sleeping alone together at Neverland two years ago.
Under questioning by Santa Barbara County District Attorney Thomas Sneddon, Robel also said the boy told him that he believed there could have been five to seven incidents of molestation, although he only remembered two in detail.
Tuesday, the defense -- trying to characterize inconsistencies in the boy's version of events -- introduced an excerpt from a police interview in which the boy said Jackson had masturbated him until ejaculation five times. During his trial testimony, he said he only remembered two such incidents, although he did say that he felt like there were more.
Sneddon's line of questioning on the issue appeared to be an attempt to explain the discrepancy to the jury.
Jackson is charged with four counts of performing a lewd act on a child -- the two incidents the boy remembers and two others that his younger brother says he witnessed while the accuser was asleep.
On Tuesday, Robel also testified that during two sets of interviews with police in the summer of 2003, neither the accuser nor his brother or sister mentioned that they had made video and audio tapes lauding Jackson and denying the child molestation allegations. He said the boy's mother "may have mentioned" the videotape in her interviews.
Robel said he did not become aware of the existence of the tapes until five months into his investigation, when investigators searched Neverland.
Sneddon sought to counter that testimony by having Robel review a report from another investigator, Detective Paul Zelis, which said that the children had in fact talked about making the rebuttal tape.
Zelis followed Robel to the stand for questioning.
Jackson arrived at the courthouse Wednesday morning accompanied by his parents. Wearing a royal blue blazer, black pants and a blue shirt, Jackson twice paused to wave and give a thumbs-up sign to supporters who were screaming "Michael is innocent" and "fight, Michael, fight."
Jackson, 46, has pleaded not guilty to an April 2004 indictment by a state grand jury which includes 10 felony counts for incidents that allegedly occurred in February and March 2003.
The incidents named in the indictment include four counts of committing a lewd act on a child; one count of conspiracy to commit child abduction, false imprisonment and extortion; one count of attempting to commit a lewd act on a child; and four counts of administering an intoxicating agent to assist in the commission of a felony.
During Tuesday's testimony, Jackson's accuser said he twice denied to a dean at his middle school that anything sexual had happened between him and Jackson because he was embarrassed and "the kids were making fun of me." (Full story)
Howard
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: RockandRollFan on 03/16/05 at 6:01 pm
Thanks, Mark :)
Your Welcome, Kim! I'm really sorry that you went through what you did though...so did my ex but like you, she found the courage to bring it out. I wish nothing but the best for you in staying strong....you have a friend in me ;)
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Robbo on 03/17/05 at 1:07 am
How does WHO allegedly molested them matter? Just because someone is an artistic "genius" (as you say) doesn't necessarily mean they aren't sick mofos. And, what other "false allegations" has the defendant himself made? You would've thought that after the first case, MJ would've been a little more careful about how he acted so there wouldn't be a chance of something like this happening again.
I sincerely hope these allegations ARE made up. I wouldn't want anyone to ever have to go through the pain of being molested. If they're true, however, he should burn in hell.
I'm not saying his musical genius means his not guilty, I'm saying his celebrity status gives even more moyive for the family to make these allegations against him.
The boy himself has made numerous false allegations of abbuse against his own father. But you must remember, the boy isn't involved in this case as such. The mother is who the defence want to get stuck into. But I'm afraid it'll blow up in the defence's face because the mother will sit there on the stand saying ridiculous things, making stupid gestures, and making weird sounds with her mouth so that she can claim insanity so she wont go to jail. That's what I think'll happen. If it does happen, Melville will have to through the case out. If Melville doesn't, T Mez will got to a higher court. This case is the biggest load of BS. What's Sneddon tring to do? Write the next storyline for South Park? It's easier to believe little green aliens are going to invade Earth, then to believe Michael Jackson molested this boy!
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Robbo on 03/17/05 at 1:23 am
**********JACKSON CASE BOMBSELL!!!**********
It's not that big, but the defence have a way of proving how Gavin and Sneddon came up with such graphic details on how Michael allegedly molested the boy.
In a task set by the school Gavin attends, they had to write about themselves. They had to write what they aspire to become when they are older, what's their favourite song, what's their favourite movie etc. For the question "What's Your Favourite Movie?" Gavin wrote "Jeppers Creepers" and said he knows the script off by heart. The defence are using this as evidence because it just so happens that the details of the molestation sound a hell of alot like the events that occured in the film, "Jeepers Creepers". It's also just so happens that the writer of "Jeepers Creepers" is a convicted child molester. He used the same acts on children as the monster used in the movie. They are also the exact same details Gavin gave in his testimony. Tom Sneddon told the boy to use "Jeepers Creepers" as a basis for the details of the molestation because he knew that everything that happened in that movie were actually real life events of child molestation. So it'd sound believable, and the boy would be able to get his story straight because he knows the script off by heart.
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Sarah17028905 on 03/17/05 at 10:03 am
I think Michael Jackson is a bit strange I admit, But I don't think he could do that to those children in which he loved. I think he was putting himself in a bad position by letting them stay over, ecspecially in his bed, and I hope he learns his lesson in that respect, but I more hope that kid that told his teacher the truth gets taught a lesson. If the kids are picking on you, you tell THEM you were lying, but not your teacher.
And I think its a crack up that he turned up in his pajamas,
And took alot of guts.
GO MICHAEL! ;D
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Robbo on 03/18/05 at 1:22 am
I think Michael Jackson is a bit strange I admit, But I don't think he could do that to those children in which he loved. I think he was putting himself in a bad position by letting them stay over, ecspecially in his bed, and I hope he learns his lesson in that respect, but I more hope that kid that told his teacher the truth gets taught a lesson. If the kids are picking on you, you tell THEM you were lying, but not your teacher.
And I think its a crack up that he turned up in his pajamas,
And took alot of guts.
GO MICHAEL! ;D
Cool. Nice to see some support. You rock Sarah!
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: whitewolf on 03/19/05 at 5:42 pm
Jackson accuser made prior allegations
Boy once claimed comedian George Lopez stole his walletThe Associated Press
Updated: 6:35 p.m. ET March 18, 2005SANTA MARIA, Calif. - The judge in Michael Jackson’s child molestation trial agreed on Friday to allow testimony that the boy accusing the singer of molestation once claimed comedian George Lopez stole his wallet.
Jackson attorney Robert Sanger said Lopez and the boy met at a comedy club, but later had a falling out. Sanger said the boy, pressed by his father, then accused Lopez of stealing his wallet and demanded $300.
More about the case^seems to me like Mother like son :D
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: RockandRollFan on 03/19/05 at 5:51 pm
UPDATE! Judge to decide if evidence of MORE molestations in the 90's from at least two other boys, will be allowed in court :) I hope so! The judge also DENIED the "Defense" request for a mistrial ;)
http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/03/18/jackson.trial/index.html
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Robbo on 03/20/05 at 12:45 am
I hope the judge lets Jordan Chandler testify. It'd be so good for the defense, don't ask me how, because it's complicated. But what I can say it, 'So much for the prosecutions case!' That's it. That's all they have. The prosecution have finished with the molestation charges, and are know ready to start on the conspiracy charges. They are just waiting for the judges ruling on the 1993 allegations.
If this is all the prosecution have for the molestation charges, then Michael can rest easy knwoing that he will definately be cleared on the molestation charges. That's atleast 2 "not guilty's".
Michael is only involved in three of the 28 counts of conspiracy, so he can rest easy during this part of the prosecutions case too.
I think there's still the kidnapping charges, the false imprisonment charges and the intoxication charges. But i think kidnapping and false imprisonment come under conspiracy. I'm not sure about the intoxication charges. I guess they've allready been dealt with in the moelstation charges. So much for the "intoxicating a minor" charge.
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: RockandRollFan on 03/20/05 at 10:44 am
Michael is only involved in three of the 28 counts of conspiracy,
Wow! Only Three? That sure is something to be proud of ::)
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Full_House_Fan on 03/20/05 at 5:53 pm
UPDATE! Judge to decide if evidence of MORE molestations in the 90's from at least two other boys, will be allowed in court :) I hope so! The judge also DENIED the "Defense" request for a mistrial ;)
http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/03/18/jackson.trial/index.html
Great :) I sure hope he gets what he deserves, whatever that is.
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Robbo on 03/21/05 at 1:36 am
Great :) I sure hope he gets what he deserves, whatever that is.ÂÂ
Yeah me too. I hope Michael gets what he deserves, full ownership of Sony records.
I also hope Jordan Chandler, Evan Chandler, Ray Chandler, Larry Feldman, Diane Dimond, Tom Sneddon, Gavin Arvizo, Star Arviz, Devillen Arvizo and Janet Jackson get what they deserve.... HELL!!
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: RockandRollFan on 03/21/05 at 7:22 pm
Yeah me too. I hope Michael gets what he deserves, full ownership of Sony records.
I also hope Jordan Chandler, Evan Chandler, Ray Chandler, Larry Feldman, Diane Dimond, Tom Sneddon, Gavin Arvizo, Star Arviz, Devillen Arvizo and Janet Jackson get what they deserve.... HELL!!
And what, with being involved in ONLY 3 of 28 counts of conspiracy! The skies the limit :D ::)
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Robbo on 03/22/05 at 1:25 am
And what, with being involved in ONLY 3 of 28 counts of conspiracy! The skies the limit :D ::)
3 alleged acts of conspiracy.
Ever wonded why the co-conspirator's were never named? Because they work for Sony! This conspiracy is huge. It's alot bigger than the public thinks, and a few long-term members of MJIFC and MJJF, and myself, have known about this conspiracy since 1999!
Alot people say that this Sony conspiracy is just Michael's and his fan's excuse for the unsuccessful release of Invincible. But Invincible (or Vince as we call it) wasn't released until 2001. We knew about Sony since 1999, before we even knew Michael had plans to release a new album. As a matter of fact, we are very happy with Invincible's success. The album sold 8 million and only 1 single was released worldwide. If it could sell 8 million with 1 single, imagine how much it could sell with the 6 singles Michael wanted to release! But Sony wouldn't let Michael release another single. It's a shame.
I actually can't tell you how much we know, because it's too risky. Our website could be shut down if Sony found out how much we actually know. We know more than the defence do.
I'm actually getting really worried now that Michael will go to jail. Sony have connections with the US government. The Michael Jackson case has something to do with the Iraq war would you believe!!
Sony have the power to change the US judgement system so that a trial is not nessercary to put someone in jail. They will change it so that if someone is accused of child molestation they go directly to jail for a 20 year sentence. Then once Michael is jail, they will change it back so that every person has the right to a fair trial. I allready am aware that Sony are bribing members of the jury with sums of a billion dollars plus!! They will go to any extent to ensure that Michael Jackson is in jail.
But one thing holding them back, is their fear of Michael Jackson's power. They are dead right scared of him. Michael Jackson is the biggest concern to Sony at the moment, and he has been a major concern for the past ten years. Over the next few weeks you will hear of a conspiracy bigger then anything who've ever heard before. You wont know what the hell hit ya!
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: RockandRollFan on 03/22/05 at 5:08 pm
I also heard that Flit Boy wore pajama bottoms to court that day because he mistakenly thought the judge asked him to examine the accuser ::)
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Robbo on 03/22/05 at 5:29 pm
ummmm.....whatever ::)
Wait til Michael own Sony records and NBC and basically has power over everything that is played on radio and shown on TV.
The Michael Jackson trial has something to do with the Iraq war for cryin out loud. It's bigger than you think!
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Robbo on 03/22/05 at 5:47 pm
I think it's time you knew about Xscape. It's like an urban myth, a legend to us fans. It's a song that was recorded orginally in 1991, re-recorded in 2001 and done over in 2003. The lyrics reveal everything you need to know about the Sony conspiracy. The 1999 version reveals alot more than the 2003 version, because the 2003 version was toned down in hope that Sony would let Michael release it. It's funny that Sony never agreed to let Michael release it. Maybe there's truth in this song if Sony won't let the world hear it. What are they afraid of?
Xscape
Words and music by Michael J Jackson
Everywhere I turn no matter where I look
The systems in control it's all ran by the book
I've got to get away so I can clear my mind,
Xscape is what I need away from electric eyes
No matter where I am I see my face around
They put dirt on my name and push from town to town
Don't have a place to run but there's no need to hide
I've got to find a place so I won't hide away
Got to get away from a system lose in the world today
The pressure that I face from relationships that's gone away
The man with the pen that writes the lies that hassle this man
I do what I wanna cause I gotta face nobody but me
I tried to share my life with someone I could love
But games and money is all she ever thought of
How could that be my fault when she gambled and lost?
I'm tired of silly games it's time to make a change
Why is it I can't do whatever I want to?
When it's my personal life and I don't live for you
So don't you try to tell me what is right for me
You be concerned about you I can do what I want to
Got to get away from a system lose in the world today
The pressure that I face from relationships that's gone away
The man with the pen that writes the lies that hassle this man
I do what I wanna cause I gotta face nobody but me
Got to get away from a system lose in the world today
The pressure that I face from relationships that's gone away
The man with the pen that writes the lies that hassle this man
I do what I wanna cause I gotta face nobody but me
When I go this problem world won't bother me no more
This problem world won't bother me no more
Got to get away from a system lose in the world today
The pressure that I face from relationships that's gone away
The man with the pen that writes the lies that hassle this man
I do what I wanna cause I gotta face nobody but me
Got to get away from a system lose in the world today
The pressure that I face from relationships that's gone away
The man with the pen that writes the lies that hassle this man
I do what I wanna cause I gotta face nobody but me
Got to get away from a system lose in the world today
The pressure that I face from relationships that's gone away
The man with the pen that writes the lies that hassle this man
I do what I wanna cause I gotta face nobody but me
Got to get away
The pressure that I face
The man with the pen
I do what I wanna cause I gotta face nobody but me
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: RockandRollFan on 03/22/05 at 6:17 pm
Wait til Michael own Sony records and NBC and basically has power over everything that is played on radio and shown on TV.
The Michael Jackson trial has something to do with the Iraq war for cryin out loud. It's bigger than you think!
Then I'll reaaly have an excuse to watch my own DVD's and listen to my own cds...'cause if that flit boy EVER has power over the industry, I will avoid it just like he does beautiful women :D
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Dagwood on 03/23/05 at 8:21 am
as I said above....ummm....whatever. Pass some of that "Jesus Juice" over here, please ::)
No doubt. I want some of what he's smoking. ::)
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: joedeertae on 03/23/05 at 9:11 am
HOLY CRAP ROBBO... :o
You need to relax dude. Sit down. Take a deep breath. hold it. hold it. now exhale. breath in. breath out. breath in. breath out.
feel better?
now...
repeat after me... "I will not drink Jesus Juice before coming to the board."
OK, now go back to bed and sleep it off.
;D :D ;D :D ;D :D
You want conspiracy baby? I got yer conspiracy.
I think the bigger conspiracy is who or what the h377 Michael Jackson really is? I have little known information that the guy in the trial is not actually MJ! He's an impostor that killed the REAL MJ some 18-20 years ago. At the risk of being removed from the seat by the window in my padded cell I will go ahead and post this information.
Here it is: http://tinyurl.com/4ozrz
;D
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: joedeertae on 03/23/05 at 9:21 am
back atcha crazymom. :D I hadn't seen that one before. ;D
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: RockandRollFan on 03/23/05 at 10:40 am
back atcha crazymom. :D I hadn't seen that one before. ;D
;D ;DThanks for making my day even brighter, Joe and Kim ;)
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: RockandRollFan on 03/23/05 at 10:52 am
Glad to help ;)
:) It just amazes me how people can still believe this "Guy"...I guess blinders aren't just for horses anymore!
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: joedeertae on 03/23/05 at 11:57 am
Yes Mark Glad we could brighten up your day. ;D
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: RockandRollFan on 03/23/05 at 12:19 pm
Yes Mark Glad we could brighten up your day. ;D
;) Thanks, Joe
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: RockandRollFan on 03/23/05 at 12:21 pm
Some people just can't see the forest for the trees (or something like that ;))
;D Sad but true, Kim :D
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Howard on 03/23/05 at 5:11 pm
Michael Jackson breaks down in the court
London, Mar 23 : King of Pop Michael Jackson's child molestation trial halted when he staggered out of the courtroom in tears and then spent half an hour crying in the toilet.
According to the Mirror, the frail singer had to be escorted to his seat as he trembled and shuffled painfully and then held tissues to his face and sobbed.
Sources close to the singer claimed he had breathing difficulties but jurors were given no explanation when the molestation trial later resumed, 45 minutes behind schedule.
"He is under huge, huge stress. But this is a physical rather than an emotional problem," Dr Weiner said. (ANI)
I thought this was pretty silly ;D
Howard
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Apricot on 03/23/05 at 5:16 pm
I think he's guilty. All this crap about him crying in court and such. Meh, I don't know though.
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Howard on 03/23/05 at 5:17 pm
I think he's guilty. All this crap about him crying in court and such. Meh, I don't know though.
He should act like man not like a timid mouse. >:( ::)
Howard
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: RockandRollFan on 03/23/05 at 5:26 pm
Michael Jackson breaks down in the court
London, Mar 23 : King of Pop Michael Jackson's child molestation trial halted when he staggered out of the courtroom in tears and then spent half an hour crying in the toilet.
According to the Mirror, the frail singer had to be escorted to his seat as he trembled and shuffled painfully and then held tissues to his face and sobbed.
Sources close to the singer claimed he had breathing difficulties but jurors were given no explanation when the molestation trial later resumed, 45 minutes behind schedule.
"He is under huge, huge stress. But this is a physical rather than an emotional problem," Dr Weiner said. (ANI)
I thought this was pretty silly ;D
Howard
Yeah, if a person knows they're innocent they don't act like they're guilty. Wheras if a person knows they're guilty most times they act like they're innocent...OJ...Scott Peterson, ect.
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Howard on 03/23/05 at 7:15 pm
So,why was he crying? ???
Howard
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Robbo on 03/23/05 at 7:59 pm
Poor fellow. He's having a nervous breakdown. But I guess he must be feeling alot better now after the judge ruled out 1993 and Michael's hard-drive. So 1993 and Michael's hard-drive aren't being used in this trial, which is a good thing for the defense. The reason is because the judge decided that Michael's on trial for 2003 not 1993. As for the hard-drive, it doesn't fit into the timeline. Most of the pornpo pictures date back to 1998, years before the alleged molestation occured.
Also, just so you know "Living With Michael Jackson" was a set up. Martin bashir forged Michael's signature in order to obtain the interview with him. Michael couldn't back out of the interview because legally he signed it. He had to sit for the interview.
It was that bastard, Uri Gellar, that wanted Michael to do the interview. He told Michael that it'd help revitalise his career, when Uri knew that Martin Bashir was out to ruin Michael. Uri's a prick, I hope the defense get him up on that stand.
Also, Diane Dimond admitted to helping the prosecution. She also has been appearing on NBC to give her 2 cents on the day's proceedings.
Dimond is linked to the prosecution.
Dimond is also linked to NBC.
The same guy who owns Sony owns NBC.
Martin Bashir's brother works for Sony.
You do the math!
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: RockandRollFan on 03/23/05 at 8:33 pm
Yeah, if a person knows they're innocent they don't act like they're guilty. Wheras if a person knows they're guilty most times they act like they're innocent...OJ...Scott Peterson, ect.
To try to get sympathy from the jury because we ALL KNOW that he's being framed ::) ;)
;DLike I said, Kim ;)
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: whitewolf on 03/23/05 at 8:39 pm
Poor fellow. He's having a nervous breakdown. But I guess he must be feeling alot better now after the judge ruled out 1993 and Michael's hard-drive. So 1993 and Michael's hard-drive aren't being used in this trial, which is a good thing for the defense. The reason is because the judge decided that Michael's on trial for 2003 not 1993. As for the hard-drive, it doesn't fit into the timeline. Most of the pornpo pictures date back to 1998, years before the alleged molestation occured.
Also, just so you know "Living With Michael Jackson" was a set up. Martin bashir forged Michael's signature in order to obtain the interview with him. Michael couldn't back out of the interview because legally he signed it. He had to sit for the interview.
It was that bastard, Uri Gellar, that wanted Michael to do the interview. He told Michael that it'd help revitalise his career, when Uri knew that Martin Bashir was out to ruin Michael. Uri's a dweeb, I hope the defense get him up on that stand.
Also, Diane Dimond admitted to helping the prosecution. She also has been appearing on NBC to give her 2 cents on the day's proceedings.
Dimond is linked to the prosecution.
Dimond is also linked to NBC.
The same guy who owns Sony owns NBC.
Martin Bashir's brother works for Sony.
You do the math!
ok, that first statement nearly made me choke.
I was one of the ones that thought he was innocent, but since the airline woman stated that she serves MJ wine in pop cans on flights, I am starting to have doubts.
The only thing gonna help the defense now is the fact that the boys gave different statements, the younger one admitted that MJ did not show them porn mags, and the fact that the mother is a money hungry b*tch.
Also, just so you know "Living With Michael Jackson" was a set up. Martin bashir forged Michael's signature in order to obtain the interview with him. Michael couldn't back out of the interview because legally he signed it. He had to sit for the interview.
there are plenty of ways to prove forgery, and if it was forgery, it wouldn't be legal.
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: RockandRollFan on 03/23/05 at 8:43 pm
You do the math!
Math?! Okay...bad back + nobody being able to help dress him in pants = BS
Blatantly taking precious hours from a family that would've had more time with thier dying mother + An egotistical jerk=Michael "Flit Boy" Jackson :D
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: KRQPMV21JS on 03/23/05 at 11:17 pm
i cannot beleive so many people turned their back oh Michael...man i know he did not do...and he is innocent...i mean jeez so many people voted him guilty...
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Robbo on 03/23/05 at 11:58 pm
i cannot beleive so many people turned their back oh Michael...man i know he did not do...and he is innocent...i mean jeez so many people voted him guilty...
Cool another person who believes Michael. This poll might be in favour of "guilty" but check out the daily polls at eonline.com Michael wins almost everyday because in the poll they say, "Based on today's proceeding's, do you think Michael is guilty or not?" And no-one can deny that the defense always, always do a good job to prove Michael's innocence.
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: RockandRollFan on 03/24/05 at 12:02 am
Cool another person who believes Michael. This poll might be in favour of "guilty" but check out the daily polls at eonline.com Michael wins almost everyday because in the poll they say, "Based on today's proceeding's, do you think Michael is guilty or not?" And no-one can deny that the defense always, always do a good job to prove Michael's innocence.
Guilty or not, he's still a perverted mean spirited @ss who STOLE precious time that a family could've spent with thier dying mom, all because HE "Wanted" the biggest room >:( Oh and to not be able to put on a pair of pants...he could have had some help instead of showing up in pajama's...you really believe his Bullsh*t though, so hey...enjoy those "Blinders" ::)
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Robbo on 03/24/05 at 12:10 am
Guilty or not, he's still a perverted mean spirited @ss who STOLE precious time that a family could've spent with thier dying mom, all because HE "Wanted" the biggest room >:( Oh and to not be able to put on a pair of pants...he could have had some help instead of showing up in pajama's...you really believe his Bullsh*t though, so hey...enjoy those "Blinders" ::)
You're an obsessive *edit* who is stuck in the past. That PJ epidsode happened weeks ago, and in taht span of time, the hospital tok full responsibility for the death of the elderly lady and explained that she was in a fatal condition and she only had a few hours left to live anyway.
Stop tryuing to defend your opinion that Mikey is guilty with ancient stuff. Why nto try to defend the most recent stuff like the judge barring the prosecution from the evidence, ruling out 1993, ruling out the computer porn, or the key prosecution witness being arrested today.l
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: RockandRollFan on 03/24/05 at 12:14 am
You're an obsessive loser who is stuck in the past. That PJ epidsode happened weeks ago, and in taht span of time, the hospital tok full responsibility for the death of the elderly lady and explained that she was in a fatal condition and she only had a few hours left to live anyway.
Stop tryuing to defend your opinion that Mikey is guilty with ancient stuff. Why nto try to defend the most recent stuff like the judge barring the prosecution from the evidence, ruling out 1993, ruling out the computer porn, or the key prosecution witness being arrested today.l
While I would never stoop to your level and call YOU a loser...it is true that the woman would've lived longer had he not been so selfish....Fine. He may be found not guilty but he'll always be a total LOSER as far as I'm concerned. Yes, the PJ stuff happened a while ago...but he could've gotten into a pair of decent pants. I will now take the advice of a good friend and use her quote as well, to end my replies for now, with a simple "Whatever" ;)
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Robbo on 03/24/05 at 12:26 am
While I would never stoop to your level and call YOU a loser...it is true that the woman would've lived longer had he not been so selfish....Fine. He may be found not guilty but he'll always be a total LOSER as far as I'm concerned. Yes, the PJ stuff happened a while ago...but he could've gotten into a pair of decent pants. I will now take the advice of a good friend and use her quote as well, to end my replies for now, with a simple "Whatever" ;)
What? So your not even going to attempt to defend your opinion that Mikey is guilty? Pfft.
Sorry for my childish name calling, I just think it's ridiculous that so many people have opinions on this case but their opinions are based on no knowledge what so ever.
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Robbo on 03/24/05 at 12:31 am
Don't forget, last year when the case was heard by a grand jury, the mother persisted that she couldn't make it due to the fact that she was suffering from complications arising from a 'c-section.' The amount of time given to her was beyond the scope of time needed to heal, and no details of the complications/infection was made public. She herself was jjust stalling for time!!
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: RockandRollFan on 03/24/05 at 12:34 am
What? So your not even going to attempt to defend your opinion that Mikey is guilty? Pfft.
I said he may not be FOUND guilty...but ala OJ, he'll walk...or in his case "Moonwalk" out of it. So say nothing morte about him not being ABLE to have HELP putting on some decent pants for a court of law...demanding (HIS FAULT) an better room, and getting one...The hospitals fault! Whatever...at least I never called YOU a loser ;) Whatever :D
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: sweetpea on 03/24/05 at 2:59 am
I think he is NOT GUILTY!!!! He is guilty. however, of making some very foolish decisions (children sleepig in his bed, etc). The family is after his money. It's the same thing that happened before and, as before, Michael made another foolish decision to pay the money.
very sad.
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: sweetpea on 03/24/05 at 3:02 am
Still doesn't prove that he's actually molested or harmed any of them in any way: he's certainly a screwed-up kind of character, which isn't exactly surprising given the life he's led, but that doesn't make him a child-molester.
My gut feeling is that he's not sexually assaulted any of the boys, but probably does gain some kind of gratification from having them around. I wonder whether the boys concerned have come to any harm (mental more than physical - if it were the latter it would be an open-and-shut case)... and if not, should there be a trial at all?
I COMPLETELY AGREE WITH YOU.
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: joedeertae on 03/24/05 at 1:26 pm
Hey,hey ,hey... How do you know when it's bedtime at the Neverland Ranch? ;D
When the big hand touches the little hand! :o
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Howard on 03/24/05 at 2:50 pm
Sin City might become Sin Circus if Donald Trump has his way.
The Donald and his Las Vegas partners have been courting Michael Jackson to perform at their New Frontier Hotel and Casino, Us Weekly reports. New Frontier owner Phil Ruffin and partner Jack Wishna have reportedly spoken to representatives of Jackson about a long-term residency.
Jackson's spokeswoman, Raymone Bain, told The Associated Press on March 23 that she wasn't aware of any such discussions, but she didn't discount that they may have occurred.
If a deal were struck, the Prince of Pop would join the likes of Celine Dion and Wayne Newton on the strip. Wishna predicts that Jacko would draw more business than the $80 million that Dion grossed in 2004.
Let the games begin.
Some more news on Michael Jackson^
Howard
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Robbo on 03/24/05 at 7:48 pm
Pot, meet Mr. Kettle I'm at a loss for words at how heartless that statement is. I certainly hope you never have a family member dying and some hospital personnel come up to you and say "Oops, time's up so hurry and say goodbye to grandma. Someone's got a backache". >:(
Sometimes you've just gotta accept the fact that people die. It's the sad truth.
Okay, Mark brought up something that happened less than a month ago, but you keep bringing up stuff that happened YEARS ago trying to "prove" he's innocent....once again....Pot, meet Mr. Kettle ::)
Ofcourse I do. the alleged molestation happened YEARS ago, so ofcourse I'm going to bring stuff up taht happened around the time of the alleged molestation. That's how it works.
I don't see how the hospital incident can be used to proove Mikey's guilty.
And, you know this how? Where did your medical degree come from? A friend of mine is STILL having complications from her c-section that was done and her son just turned 1. ::)
Thank-you for the piece of info. This proves that the accuser's mother was lying about her "c-section" to stall time. Suddenly, she's all better now. If she had complications with her c-section, as you said, she would STILL be having problems. Thanks for proving that the mother was stalling for time. Much appreciated! :)
Oh, that's right....you're a "close personal friend" of his who spent 24/7 with him at the time of the alleged molestations....sorry, we forgot ::)
I never said I'm his "close personal friend", I'm just a friend of the family. I never said I'm with him 24/7, and I never said I was with him in the timeframe of the alleged molestation, but I know someone who was. Once again, I never said I'm with him 24/7, but I am with him a few hours a week for business matters. That's it. I don't live with the guy. Give me a break.
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Robbo on 03/24/05 at 8:03 pm
Prior allegations are rarely allowed as evidence so that doesn't surprise me.
Exactly, that's why it surprised me that the jduge was even considering it!
The exclusion of the hard drive, however, does. Just because the pics were dl'd in 1998 does not mean that they were not viewed after that date.
By dated back to 1998, I mean, last viewed in 1998. On his computer hard-drive, the detectives can trace the very last time that picture was viewed. Most were last viewed in 1998, some stretched over to 1999. There were no pictures, that were last viewed any later than 2000.
Sounds like Mikey boy needs a new lawyer. If his signature was "forged" then all it would've taken was a simple handwriting analysis to prove it. He could've kept his mouth shut as well and not talked as much as he did.
There's alot for Mikey's lawyer to take on. This is the least of their worries. But it probably will be brought up with the defense present their case. In fact, it was brouht up when Bashir was on the stand a few weeks ago, but Bashir refused to answer.
Oh, I get it!!! Everyone is guilty....except Michael, of course. For God's sake, stand up, be a man and take some responsibility for your life, Mikey!
WTF do you think he's doing? Ofcourse he's taking responsibilty for his life. He wont stop until Sneddon, Dimond, NBC and Sony are behind bars. He is standing up for himself, and has been for years. You have no idea. Michael Jackson is on of the biggest and most powerful men in the music/entertainment business. He must've done some standing up, and taking resposibility to get where he is.
Since everyone else seems to be "controlling" his actions, how are we to believe that he ACTUALLY wrote all of the songs himself ??? Sounds to me like someone needs to grow some kahones (sp)....
How can we be sure the Beatles wrote their own music? How can we be sure the Stones wrote their own music? How can we be sure Queen wrote their own music?
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: RockandRollFan on 03/24/05 at 10:38 pm
Sometimes you've just gotta accept the fact that people die. It's the sad truth.
FACT is that the woman would've had more time had it not been for Jackson's demands...that is a horrible thing to say. I lost my son...and if it would've been a situation where he could've been around even ONE minute longer but was robbed of that precious time from some egotistical jerk...you can bet that jerk would have a serious problem with me and MY family. That you would make a statement like that, with such coldness is....unreal :-\\
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: ADH13 on 03/25/05 at 12:06 am
I have a hard time with the whole money thing...
If Michael is guilty, many people are going to give him the benefit of the doubt only because they know the boy's mother is going after his money, thus a reason for bringing a "bogus lawsuit"
If the mother of this child agrees that if Michael is found guilty, she will NOT receive a dime out of this, and she still proceeds with the case, I will DEFINITELY believe that he is guilty. And he should do time, pay for any counseling for the boy (directly to the counselor), but there is no need for a "cash cow" here.
Although my mind tells me Michael is probably guilty, I can't help but think the money could be the reason for all this. If the mother really wants Michael put away, she should publicly state that she will not sue for any money resulting from this case. If she sues for money, she is actually HELPING the defense...
And as for the hospital thing, if I went to the hospital with a backache or flu, I'd be told "Take some Tylenol!" Ridiculous.
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Robbo on 03/25/05 at 3:39 am
IF it really was a forgery, then why didn't he fight it BEFORE the interview if he really didn't want to do it? Sounds like more BS to me ::) Hey, you were the one "blaming" everyone BUT MICHAEL for what's going on with him. Let's face it, it's NOT RIGHT for a 40+ year old man to sleep in the same beds with kids.  Correction....WAS. How many copies of his last album sold? Oh, that's right, THAT was Sony's fault as well....how could I forget? ::) We can't....but at least if they screwed up, they took responsibility for it ;)
How mnay? 7.5 MILLION copies. Which is more than most albums sell these days. But that besides the point. I meant biggest and most powerful businessmen in the industry. I wasn't referring to him as an artist, but a businessman.
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: RockandRollFan on 03/28/05 at 5:49 pm
Hey Kim, did you hear? The judge actually grew some balls and is allowing past stories of him fondling and kissing kids aged 3-12...among other things :)
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: RockandRollFan on 03/28/05 at 6:05 pm
GASP!!! NOOOOOOO! Say it isn't so.....::) Although, I'm sure all of THOSE are being made up as well by the conspirators ;)
It's just SO unfair! He's being singled out because he's Black....I mean White...I mean Rich...I mean different :D ;D
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: GoodRedShirt on 03/28/05 at 6:32 pm
I have no idea. To give a proper answer, one needs to read up all the information and allegations about/against him, and I quite frankley don't care enough to do that. I do thing he is a very strange, insecure man, who has more than likely done some very dumb things in the past.
I also think alot of this is media hype.
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Robbo on 03/29/05 at 4:21 am
WTF is this judge playing at? Why the hell did he let 1993 be used? This is injustice.
Not only did they find NO evidence in 1993, and the boy's description of Mikey's genitals didn't match the photos taken by police, but Mikey is on trial for 2003 - not 1993. What the hell is going on?
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Robbo on 03/29/05 at 4:22 am
Hey Kim, did you hear? The judge actually grew some balls and is allowing past stories of him fondling and kissing kids aged 3-12...among other things :)
Grew some balls? More like grew a large bank account.
Need I say more.
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Robbo on 03/29/05 at 4:26 am
GASP!!! NOOOOOOO! Say it isn't so.....::) Although, I'm sure all of THOSE are being made up as well by the conspirators ;)
No evidence = no crime
I don't think it's a mistake that the 1993 allegations and the 2003 are very similiar, and it's no mistake that both "victims" parents happened to be greedy and have a history of false allegations.
I am willing to bet that if he was accused of drug dealing in 1993, he'd be accused drug dealing in 2003. That's the bottom line.
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: joedeertae on 03/29/05 at 9:13 am
Let's face it, it's NOT RIGHT for a 40+ year old man to sleep in the same beds with kids.
THAT sentence says it all.
WTF is wrong with a guy of 40+ years old who thinks it's OK to sleep with young boys? He's looking for trouble. Especially, ESPECIALLY after being accused of molesting young boys! I don't give a rat's @ss if your Michael Jackson or Captain Kangaroo or Mr. Rogers only an absolute dumb a$$ or a freak of a child molester would say on national television (once again, especially after being accused of child molestation) that he "loves children" and thinks it's OK to sleep with young boys. Wheather or not he's guilty of actual child molestation I still couldn't say but one thing for sure IMO is he's a freak and a freaking pervert.
LEAVE THE LITTLE BOYS ALONE MICHAEL AND GET SOME HELP!
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: RockandRollFan on 03/29/05 at 9:54 am
Grew some balls? More like grew a large bank account.
Need I say more.
Please...explain how you could be so unfeeling to that lady and her family, who had precious time taken away from them because of that pricks ego...oh yeah, you already said they need to get over it >:(
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: RockandRollFan on 03/29/05 at 1:33 pm
I have to say, though, that the parents are partially to blame as well. I know what MY answer would be if ANY male, related or not, wanted to sleep in the same bed as my boys......HELL NO!! Or, if ANY unrelated adult wanted them to "spend the night" >:(
And if one of my boys was going to die in a hospital and some egomaniac took over his room and stressed him so that me and my family lost the last precious moments we'd have had with him...and if that Egomaniac or a few of his "Fans" were callous enough to make some LAME excuse AND tell ME to get over it? Well, let's just say they'd be staying a little longer AT the hospital after I got through with them >:(
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: RockandRollFan on 03/29/05 at 2:08 pm
Hell, they'd have to forcibly remove me....and I'd like to see them make the charges stick >:(
Unless you and me were some arrogant stars, we'd be in jail! Ohbut, wait...we should just "Get over it"...I forgot :D
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: joedeertae on 03/29/05 at 3:40 pm
I have to say, though, that the parents are partially to blame as well. I know what MY answer would be if ANY male, related or not, wanted to sleep in the same bed as my boys......HELL NO!! Or, if ANY unrelated adult wanted them to "spend the night" >:(
Agreed 100% the parents also have some blame in this because they were fool enough to leave their children in the care of Wacko knowing full well what he had been previously accused of.
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: philbo on 03/29/05 at 4:30 pm
They (the parents, that is) probably looked on it as some kind of investment :-(
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Howard on 03/29/05 at 5:28 pm
http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/050329/ss_MJupdate_050329_tease.275w.jpg
Why is he always giving the peace sign? ???^
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: RockandRollFan on 03/29/05 at 5:28 pm
Mark, just "get over it"....we're the bad guys after all ::)
You're right, Kim! I should feel bad for the poor black...white... ???....boy...man ??? :o
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Howard on 03/29/05 at 5:29 pm
You're right, Kim! I should feel bad for the poor black...white... ???....boy...man ??? :o
I thought he was jewish,Mark ::)
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: RockandRollFan on 03/29/05 at 5:30 pm
http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/050329/ss_MJupdate_050329_tease.275w.jpg
Why is he always giving the peace sign? ???^
I think it's V for "Viagra"...and Howard....PLEASE WARN ME before you post that things pic...my lunch is all but lost :P
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Howard on 03/29/05 at 5:31 pm
I think it's V for "Viagra"...and Howard....PLEASE WARN ME before you post that things pic...my lunch is all but lost :P
Oh,I'm sorry Mark. :o The peace sign is V for victim ;D
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Robbo on 03/29/05 at 8:55 pm
Jackson case update
The 5 "past victims" which Sneddon is using to show some sort of pattern are...
Jordan Chandler - In 1993 he accused Michael Jackson of molestation. The police found no evidence, and the picture Jordan drew of Michael's genitals did not match photo's taken by police. Two grand jury's threw out the case because of lack of evidence. Michael reached a financial settlement with the boy and his family, after this the family didn't wish to take out a criminal case against Michael and no further action was taken.
Jason Francia - This boy is the son of a maid who once worked at Neverland. Accusation came out about the same time as Jordan Chandler's accusations. The maid said on television that she witnessed Michael showering with her son and while in the shower, Michael was fondling the boy. When the accusation were taken to police, the maid told the police she only did it because the TV program she appeared on was paying her good money, and the accusation were 100% made up. There was no shower, there was no fondling.
Mac Culkin - Mac has repeatedly said on television that Michael has never molested him, or any other boy. The reason the prosecution is using Mac is because in the "Living With Michael Jackson" documentary Michael said he once shared a bed with Mac. Mac admitted to police that Michael and him did share a bed on one occasion, but nothing innappropriate happened.
Wade Robson - Wade Robson is also a boy who has repeatedly stated that Michael has never molested him. I am not sure why the prosecution are using him. Maybe he's another boy that Michael shared a bed with. But Wade has always said Michael never molested him, so he won't be helping the prosecution greatly. It's not a crime to share your bed.
Brett Barnes - Again, I don't know much about this boy. I know he has also repeatedly said Michael never molested him. But again, this is probably another boy who Michael shared his bed with. But again, it's not a crime to share your bed. It may be unacceptable, but it's not a crime.
So there's only two boy's who have actually accused Michael of molesting them in the past. One of those boy's never actually said anything. It was his mother that did all the accusing, and then when questioned by police she said it wasn't true and she made the accusation up.
Jordan is the only boy who has actually said himself, that Michael molested him. However, according to Geraldine Hughes and Jordan Chandler's lawyers, he will testify that Michael never molested him!
So these five boy's who Sneddon claims will be a big bombshell, will actually be a great victory for the defense. All five boy's will probably say Michael never molested them, however, all five boy's will probably say Michael shared his bed with them, which would be damaging for the defense because sharing your bed is not acceptable in society. But again, it's not a crime so he can't be convicted based on the fact that he shares his bed with boys.
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: RockandRollFan on 03/29/05 at 9:00 pm
Wow...not as ugly of a picture...but I still threw up!
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Robbo on 03/29/05 at 9:06 pm
Wow...not as ugly of a picture...but I still threw up!
C'mon. Michael aint that bad. Have you seen Tom Sneddon? Not that's what you call fugly. That bald, sweaty head, those teeth that haven't been cleaned in years, that yellowish grey moustached, those ugly glasses, those wrinkles. Eeew!! I think I'm going to vomit just thinking about it!
Btw, check out my siggie. Michael aint that bad. he actually looks pretty damn fine. Depends what picture you use. Some pictures he looks great, some pictures he looks awful.
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: whitewolf on 03/29/05 at 9:09 pm
So there's only two boy's who have actually accused Michael of molesting them in the past. One of those boy's never actually said anything. It was his mother that did all the accusing, and then when questioned by police she said it wasn't true and she made the accusation up.
Jordan is the only boy who has actually said himself, that Michael molested him. However, according to Geraldine Hughes and Jordan Chandler's lawyers, he will testify that Michael never molested him!
So these five boy's who Sneddon claims will be a big bombshell, will actually be a great victory for the defense. All five boy's will probably say Michael never molested them, however, all five boy's will probably say Michael shared his bed with them, which would be damaging for the defense because sharing your bed is not acceptable in society. But again, it's not a crime so he can't be convicted based on the fact that he shares his bed with boys.          ÂÂ
If the mother admitted to lying, why was there a 2.5 million dollar settlement.
or was she paid to say she lied.
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Robbo on 03/29/05 at 9:14 pm
If the mother admitted to lying, why was there a 2.5 million dollar settlement.
or was she paid to say she lied.
It doesn't matter if she admitted to lyign or not. She was still allowed to tkae out a civil lawsuit against Michael Jackson. This is where the settlement came in.
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: joedeertae on 03/29/05 at 9:15 pm
Absolutely amazing what one can get away with when you have enough money to make them change their "truth".
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: whitewolf on 03/29/05 at 9:17 pm
It doesn't matter if she admitted to lyign or not. She was still allowed to tkae out a civil lawsuit against Michael Jackson. This is where the settlement came in.
no judge would make you pay a settlement if the accuser admitted to lying.
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Robbo on 03/29/05 at 9:18 pm
Absolutely amazing what one can get away with when you have enough money to make them change their "truth".
What are you implying? That somehow, Michael paid these boy's to say he's innocent? Or are you just commenting on the amazing power money has over people to lie about Michael Jackson on national TV?
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Robbo on 03/29/05 at 9:21 pm
no judge would make you pay a settlement if the accuser admitted to lying.
The accuser didn't admit to lying, the accuser didn't even say Michael molested him. The mother did all the talking.
Plus, it's different in a civil case. It doesn't matter what the accuser's mother told police, the civil case could still go ahead. But the fact that she told police she made it up is why it was only a $2.5 million settlement and not a $20 million settlement, like the Jordan Chandler case.
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: joedeertae on 03/29/05 at 9:22 pm
What are you implying? That somehow, Michael paid these boy's to say he's innocent? Or are you just commenting on the amazing power money has over people to lie about Michael Jackson on national TV?
I'll take door number 1.
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: whitewolf on 03/29/05 at 9:26 pm
The accuser didn't admit to lying, the accuser didn't even say Michael molested him. The mother did all the talking.
Plus, it's different in a civil case. It doesn't matter what the accuser's mother told police, the civil case could still go ahead. But the fact that she told police she made it up is why it was only a $2.5 million settlement and not a $20 million settlement, like the Jordan Chandler case.
anybody have a shovel, cause this is a bunch of bull sh!t
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: ElDuderino on 03/29/05 at 9:27 pm
So he was found innocent?
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: whitewolf on 03/29/05 at 9:29 pm
So he was found innocent?
that stuff is from a 1990 case that by the way never made it too the papers, it was paid off to quick.
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: RockandRollFan on 03/29/05 at 9:37 pm
The case aside...my problems are still how he couldn't get anyone to assist him in putting on a real pair of pants for court...and last but certainly not least, his absolute disregard for a dying woman and her family... fans "Excuses" for him AND them stating that the family needs to "Get Over It" >:(
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Robbo on 03/29/05 at 9:45 pm
The case aside...my problems are still how he couldn't get anyone to assist him in putting on a real pair of pants for court...and last but certainly not least, his absolute disregard for a dying woman and her family... fans "Excuses" for him AND them stating that the family needs to "Get Over It" >:(
FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!!! How many times have you mentioned this now?
It had nothing to do with Michael. A woman happened to die at the same time Michael arrived. He never demanded a big room. The hospital gave him a big room because he was Michael Jackson. The poor old lady had probably allready said good bye to everyone in her family, she was ready to go. It's very sad that she had to die, but that's life. She only had a few hours left anyway. She didn't die any earlier than she was supposed to. When she was moved to a different room, she still ahd enough time to do whatever she wanted to do. Say her prays for her family, say goodbye.
The hospital took full resposibility for it. Take your anger out on them. It's not often that a hospital can bring someone back to life, but if you insist, anger all you want.
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Robbo on 03/29/05 at 9:47 pm
anybody have a shovel, cause this is a bunch of bull sh!t
I don't know why the case still went ahead, but it did. It probably went ahead for the same reason the past allegations were let into this case. It seems ridculous that the judge would allow it. But it happened. It's injustice.
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: whitewolf on 03/29/05 at 9:50 pm
FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!!! How many times have you mentioned this now?
It had nothing to do with Michael. A woman happened to die at the same time Michael arrived. He never demanded a big room. The hospital gave him a big room because he was Michael Jackson. The poor old lady had probably allready said good bye to everyone in her family, she was ready to go. It's very sad that she had to die, but that's life. She only had a few hours left anyway. She didn't die any earlier than she was supposed to. When she was moved to a different room, she still ahd enough time to do whatever she wanted to do. Say her prays for her family, say goodbye.
The hospital took full resposibility for it. Take your anger out on them. It's not often that a hospital can bring someone back to life, but if you insist, anger all you want.
It's not the point that she only had a few hours left to live, but by being put into a smaller room, all of her relatives could not be there with her. And you are heartless to to be saying "oh well, she was dying anway"
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: RockandRollFan on 03/29/05 at 9:55 pm
FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!!! How many times have you mentioned this now?
It had nothing to do with Michael. A woman happened to die at the same time Michael arrived. He never demanded a big room. The hospital gave him a big room because he was Michael Jackson. The poor old lady had probably allready said good bye to everyone in her family, she was ready to go. It's very sad that she had to die, but that's life. She only had a few hours left anyway. She didn't die any earlier than she was supposed to. When she was moved to a different room, she still ahd enough time to do whatever she wanted to do. Say her prays for her family, say goodbye.
The hospital took full resposibility for it. Take your anger out on them. It's not often that a hospital can bring someone back to life, but if you insist, anger all you want.
It never would've happened had he not DEMANDED the room...there we go again with the Michael wasn't responsible for this...garbage. Who are YOU to say how much time she had left? To say nothing about the pajama's? Get Real, nobody could've helped him change? I worked with people who were paralyzed and they were able to be dressed ;)
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Robbo on 03/29/05 at 10:02 pm
It's not the point that she only had a few hours left to live, but by being put into a smaller room, all of her relatives could not be there with her. And you are heartless to to be saying "oh well, she was dying anway"
When my grandmother was in hospital, dying, 2 years ago, she was in a room so small that there could only be 1 person in there with her at a time. It was the size of a toilet cubicle, it was ridculous. But we all got to she her, and she didn't mind. She always had a smile on her face no matter what.
I wonder how this woman got a big room in the first place. I'd like to now. There was probably a sick, dying woman in there before her, and she was probably moved to a smaller room too.
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Robbo on 03/29/05 at 10:05 pm
It never would've happened had he not DEMANDED the room...there we go again with the Michael wasn't responsible for this...garbage. Who are YOU to say how much time she had left? To say nothing about the pajama's? Get Real, nobody could've helped him change? I worked with people who were paralyzed and they were able to be dressed ;)
Michael never demanded the room. The hospital said the poor old woman only had a few hours left.
What does the PJ's have to do with anything?
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: RockandRollFan on 03/29/05 at 10:07 pm
Michael never demanded the room. The hospital said the poor old woman only had a few hours left.
What does the PJ's have to do with anything?
He showed disrespect by wearing them to a court of law...and then used the poor excuse that he couldn't get dressed because of his back pain....surely you can give me THAT one ;)
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Robbo on 03/29/05 at 10:09 pm
He showed disrespect by wearing them to a court of law...and then used the poor excuse that he couldn't get dressed because of his back pain....surely you can give me THAT one ;)
He probably did it on purpose. Michael never really liked authorities. It was probably a stunt to purposely show disrespect for authority!
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: RockandRollFan on 03/29/05 at 10:16 pm
He probably did it on purpose. Michael never really liked authorities. It was probably a stunt to purposely show disrespect for authority!
Okay then...I appreciate you at least giving me that...now if I could just get you to lose the sig line pic ;)
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Robbo on 03/30/05 at 12:38 am
Okay then...I appreciate you at least giving me that...now if I could just get you to lose the sig line pic ;)
I don't think so
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: joedeertae on 03/30/05 at 8:48 am
Wait, I thought someone "forgot" to grab them ???
Well... that was what we originally thought but since then we have discovered that it was a LIE! Somebody is trying to make us look like we are wacko or something and that is just not the "truth" as we would have you believe. MJ told me that he was wanted to show that mean old judge that he was just not going to stand for this silliness of making a big fuss everytime we showed up late and so he came in wearing pj's and everybody thought it was sooooooooo funny but I told him he shouldn't have done that but he told me he didn't care and then I said "That's OK, I still think your are the cats meow Michael" and he hugged me and everything is OK now.
;D
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Johnny Vega on 03/30/05 at 9:03 am
"I'll say this, he's guilty of caring too much. Michael's never been one to conform to the norms of society, but that's what I like about him, that even under immense pressure, he maintains his eccentric and endearing traits. People say that he's a kid inside an adult's body, I say that this is true, but then with this logic, a child couldn't hurt another child. Michael not only opened up his house to many children, but he also opened up his heart. He shouldn't be looked down upon, even if he is found guilty, because he is still a good person and has created some of the best music of all time."
This is what someone who was either being paid off by Michael or someone who hasn't been in touch with society for the last 15 years would say. He is guilty and should've been jailed long ago, so now that his cash flow has supposedly stopped, (which is probably untrue, despite the rumors that he's bankrupt now), he shouldn't be able to afford an out-of-court settlement and will be jail until he's an old man....
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: joedeertae on 03/30/05 at 11:47 am
"I'll say this, he's guilty of caring too much. Michael's never been one to conform to the norms of society, but that's what I like about him, that even under immense pressure, he maintains his eccentric and endearing traits. People say that he's a kid inside an adult's body, I say that this is true, but then with this logic, a child couldn't hurt another child. Michael not only opened up his house to many children, but he also opened up his heart. He shouldn't be looked down upon, even if he is found guilty, because he is still a good person and has created some of the best music of all time."
This is what someone who was either being paid off by Michael or someone who hasn't been in touch with society for the last 15 years would say. He is guilty and should've been jailed long ago, so now that his cash flow has supposedly stopped, (which is probably untrue, despite the rumors that he's bankrupt now), he shouldn't be able to afford an out-of-court settlement and will be jail until he's an old man....
Dude - You had me going for a minute there! ;D I was thinking "There is no freakin way this guy can be right in the head!" When I read "He shouldn't be looked down upon, even if he is found guilty" I was already writing a respnse in my head. Thanks for the laugh and...
Welcome aboard the boards BTW.
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Johnny Vega on 03/30/05 at 8:06 pm
I found this board while perusing on Google, that's how I found every one of my favorite websites, by accidental clicks... Michael can sing and perform and his influence has spread to artists of today, (Usher especially), so I still listen to my MJ albums on occasion and that his albums reflected what was going on in his life...in 79', he invented the "robot", (or popularized), and brought us a style of singing never seen before with tracks such as "Off the Wall" and "Don't Stop til' you get enough", then he showed us his weirder side in Thriller, I never cared for the video or title song, but "Beat It", "Billie Jean", and "Human Nature" are great songs and I could listen to the entire album from the first to last song without being bored... then "Bad" was when Michael dyed his skin and straighted his hair, I thought it was makeup at first.... and while I still am a Michael Jackson fan, I'll admit that he's a weirdo and that his music has declined since the early 90's...
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Robbo on 03/31/05 at 5:46 am
I found this board while perusing on Google, that's how I found every one of my favorite websites, by accidental clicks... Michael can sing and perform and his influence has spread to artists of today, (Usher especially), so I still listen to my MJ albums on occasion and that his albums reflected what was going on in his life...in 79', he invented the "robot", (or popularized), and brought us a style of singing never seen before with tracks such as "Off the Wall" and "Don't Stop til' you get enough", then he showed us his weirder side in Thriller, I never cared for the video or title song, but "Beat It", "Billie Jean", and "Human Nature" are great songs and I could listen to the entire album from the first to last song without being bored... then "Bad" was when Michael dyed his skin and straighted his hair, I thought it was makeup at first.... and while I still am a Michael Jackson fan, I'll admit that he's a weirdo and that his music has declined since the early 90's...
He's an artist; he has the right to be weird
Michael Jackson is an artist, and as part of his artistry he is always re-creating himself, re-creating his image. It might be a face-lift, it might be a new hair-do, it might be a new jacket. Anything. He's an artist. He can do whatever the hell he wants!
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: joedeertae on 03/31/05 at 6:41 am
He's an artist; he has the right to be weird
Michael Jackson is an artist, and as part of his artistry he is always re-creating himself, re-creating his image. It might be a face-lift, it might be a new hair-do, it might be a new jacket. Anything. He's an artist.
He can do whatever the hell he wants!
Does that include molesting young boys?
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Johnny Vega on 03/31/05 at 9:46 am
yeah, he did, in the early 80's if not 79, when he did "Off the Wall". Michael Jackson didn't just reinvent his image, he became an entirely different person during this time, and not a better one IMO.... Macaulay Culkin could've sealed Michael's fate long ago, but out of embarrassment and perhaps a hefty payoff, he will never tell us what really goes on at Neverland..
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Robbo on 04/01/05 at 4:55 am
WAIT!!! I thought he only had 1 small surgery on his nose ???
I'm sick of this game. Michael's sick of this game. You don't know how long Mike's people have been working to try and create an image for Michael Jackson that people will like. It's gotten to the point now that if people don't like Michael Jackson it's their problem!!
*Michael has had loads of plastic sugery
*Michael has vitiligo, but also bleaches his skin to get an even skin tone - most of what you see is make-up
*Michael drinks
*Michael swears
*Michael had a drug addiction during the 90's
*Michael DOES NOT and would never think of molesting children
*Michael is find women attractive and is quite a flirt
There. Happy now?
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: joedeertae on 04/01/05 at 6:55 am
I'm sick of this game. Michael's sick of this game. You don't know how long Mike's people have been working to try and create an image for Michael Jackson that people will like.
Why didn't they stick with the original black kid who could sing and dance and didn't molest young boys that everybody liked ? ???
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Howard on 04/01/05 at 3:58 pm
Why didn't they stick with the original black kid who could sing and dance and didn't molest young boys that everybody liked ? ???
I really don't know Joe.
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: joedeertae on 04/01/05 at 4:01 pm
I really don't know Joe.
Me neither Howard. I guess he was too "normal". :P
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Whacko Jacko on 04/01/05 at 6:02 pm
Bow at my feet oh idiot worshippers or i shall infect thee!
http://www.strangecosmos.com/images/content/14351.JPG
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Robbo on 04/01/05 at 8:56 pm
Why didn't they stick with the original black kid who could sing and dance and didn't molest young boys that everybody liked ? ???
Black kid who could sing and dance and didn't molest young boys.
He doesn't molest boys. So Mike gets 1 point for that.
He can sing and dance and has one countless award for his singing and dancing. So there's another point for Mikey.
He's not a kid, you can't be a kid all your life. But his PR people have been trying to create the image of a man you doesn't grow up. So where you mentioned kid, there's a half point for Mikey.
He is black. So there's another point for Mikey.
Wow. You managed to accurately describe who Michael Jackson is today. Well done.
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: whitewolf on 04/01/05 at 9:13 pm
He's not a kid, you can't be a kid all your life. But his PR people have been trying to create the image of a man you doesn't grow up.
That is a bunch of bullsh*t
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Robbo on 04/02/05 at 7:56 am
Now wait....I'm confused.....first he's only had 1 surgery, now it's loads....first it was "he's entitled to be weird because he's an artist, now it's his people.....
Hey Robbo, YOU'RE the one who's been contradicting yourself, not us.
It was never 1 surgery, get off it!
he is entitled to being weird because he's an artist. it's part of his artistry, taht what I'm saying. His PR team have been trying to cover up his weirdness. Michael Jackson is very hard to explain and if you could just consider him as an artist and what he does with his face, his appearance, his image, as part of his artistry, than you know all there is to know about Michael Jackson. That's Michael Jackson in a bag. He's an artist challenging the extremes of his artistry. That's all you need to know.
Forget everything I've said. I'm an idiot. I've been trying to exlpain Michael Jackson, but there is no explanantion. Michael Jackson is Michael Jackson. He's a crazy mutherf'er and if the world can't deal with that - screw em'!
Now if we could get off the topic of Michael Jackson eccentricities, or as I've just explained, his artistry, and get back on the topic of guilty or not, that'd be great!
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: joedeertae on 04/02/05 at 8:09 am
Forget everything I've said. I'm an idiot.
OK! finally we are getting somewhere. ;D
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: joedeertae on 04/02/05 at 8:27 am
He doesn't molest boys. So Mike gets 1 point for that.
He allegedly doesn't molest young boys. NO POINT FOR MIKEY TODAY!
He can sing and dance and has one countless award for his singing and dancing. So there's another point for Mikey.
I didn't say he couldn't song OR dance silly. :P One point. (point of what ??? )
He's not a kid, you can't be a kid all your life. But his PR people have been trying to create the image of a man you doesn't grow up. So where you mentioned kid, there's a half point for Mikey.
HE LIVES IN A FREAKIN ZOO CALLED NEVERALAND AND THINKS HE'S PETER FRICKIN PAN *knocks on Robbo's monitor* HELLO!
And has said numerous times himself that he is a kid. NO POINT FOR MIKEY TODAY!
He is black. So there's another point for Mikey.
No he's not. NO POINT FOR MIKEY TODAY!
Wow. You managed to accurately describe who Michael Jackson is today. Well done.
So how many point do I get for that?
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Todd Pettingzoo on 04/02/05 at 1:04 pm
i personally think he's guilty, but think he'll get off. There's just too many "if ands and buts" and he's too big of a celebrity.
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: RockandRollFan on 04/02/05 at 1:17 pm
i personally think he's guilty, but think he'll get off. There's just too many "if ands and buts" and he's too big of a celebrity.
Unfortunately, I agree :-\\
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Dagwood on 04/02/05 at 6:16 pm
I don't think he will walk from this one. The judge allowing testimony from past charges says alot.
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Techno383 on 04/02/05 at 6:34 pm
I don't care which way you slice it, HE's GUILTY!!!
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Robbo on 04/02/05 at 10:46 pm
I don't think he will walk from this one. The judge allowing testimony from past charges says alot.
Yes it does. It says that the current case is so weak that the prosecution wanted the past accusation brought in. Only one boy is testifying, and he's testifying for Michael so I can't see how this is going to help the prosecution. The defense have this in the bag. No DNA evidence, no independent witnesses, the accuser and his brother both gave contradicting tetsimonies,after the family claim they were kidnapped they went to a lawyer rather than police and that lawyer was Larry Feldman who also happens to be the same lawyer who represented Jordy Chandler in 1993.
Why don't you register with www.mjjforum.com and read the transcripts. You can download them, they've been unedited and it's impossible to edit them because they are image files not word documents. Read the transcipts so you yourself can pin-point the obvious lies. Then go into the mjjf.com forum and go to the investigation forum and see where other forum members have pin-pointed lies and contradictions.
When I think of this case the first word that pops into my head is bullsheesh.
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Robbo on 04/03/05 at 1:20 am
Jackson witness is linked to America's most infamous child sex claims
By Andrew Gumbel in Los Angeles
03 April 2005
A few days ago prosecutors in the Michael Jackson case arguably hit their lowest point - by showing obvious embarrassment at a man touted as one of their star witnesses. On the stand was Stan Katz, the psychologist who first interviewed the teenage boy at the centre of the case and subsequently reported his allegations of sexual abuse to the police. The jury and press gallery were primed to hear a detailed account of what Gavin Arviso disclosed to Dr Katz about Jackson's alleged attempts to seduce him.
Instead, Tom Sneddon, the Santa Barbara County district attorney, did little more than establish the circumstances of Dr Katz's involvement and then, after barely half an hour, abruptly terminated his questioning. The prosecutor's reticence almost certainly had to do with Dr Katz's association with one of the most notorious child sex abuse investigations in American history - a catalogue of appalling professional errors and mass hysteria surrounding a Los Angeles area pre-school in the 1980s that scarred dozens of lives but failed to lead to a single criminal conviction.
Dr Katz's organisation, Children's Institute International, believed at the time it had uncovered sex crimes and satanic rituals at the McMartin pre-school in Manhattan Beach. After interviewing 400 current and former students, it concluded that 369 of them had been sexually abused - lured into underground tunnels, forced to perform bizarre forms of devil-worship including the disinterment of coffins, raped at a car wash and filmed with their adult abusers for pornographic purposes.
The problem with CII's "discoveries" was not only that they failed to meet the basic test of plausibility. They were also based on highly coercive interviews, in which the children systematically denied anything was amiss until the interviewers started putting ideas into their heads. Over and over, the children were asked if they had participated in a certain "game" or if a teacher had touched them. If they said no, they were called "dumb". If they said yes, they were called "smart".
When the case reached trial, jurors were able to see the coercive techniques for themselves because the interviews had all been videotaped. Not a shred of corroborating evidence ever surfaced and the defendants, all members of the same family, were exonerated. Among family psychology professionals, the case is now a byword for how not to conduct a sex abuse investigation.
CII has never conducted a thorough review of its mistakes in the McMartin case, and indeed the woman who conducted the bulk of the sex abuse interviews - a social worker with no formal training in psychology or family therapy called Kee MacFarlane - was later promoted to become CII's director of education and training. She has since left the organisation, but continues to consult and lecture on child abuse.
All this, of course, plays very nicely into the hands of Mr Jackson's defence lawyers. Mr Sneddon's abbreviated questioning of Dr Katz denied them the opportunity to reveal the full horrors of the McMartin case to the jury last week, but they did get Dr Katz to acknowledge that he was personally involved.
The association with McMartin is not an automatic black mark on Dr Katz's reputation. The science of sex abuse evaluation was in its infancy in the 1980s, and he was not personally responsible for Ms MacFarlane's interview techniques.
Likewise, his involvement in the Jackson trial neither augments nor diminishes the credibility of Gavin Arviso and his brother Star, who allege that Jackson put his hand inside Gavin's underpants and masturbated him at least twice while the boys were guests at his Neverland ranch in central California.
But Dr Katz does present the latest of a series of headaches for the prosecutors, who badly need some authoritative figures with direct knowledge of the case to tell the court why the boys should be believed - despite the vagueness of some parts of their account and their acknowledged record of lies and rowdy behaviour.
For this purpose, Dr Katz is effectively useless, the risk being that he could only fuel the defence's contention that Mr Jackson's accusers are being egged on by a cabal of unscrupulous professionals out to fleece him for as much money as they can.
He and the private litigation lawyer Larry Feldman, who referred the Arvisos to him, were both involved in an earlier case against Mr Jackson, in which Jordy Chandler, then 13, accused the singer of molesting him. Chandler's family dropped their charges only after receiving a $20m (£10.6m) settlement.
It is far from proven that the allegations against Mr Jackson are part of a witch-hunt analogous to the McMartin case, but that does not mean that the defence won't try to argue it anyway.
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americ...sp?story=625908
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Robbo on 04/03/05 at 1:30 am
Oh, you forgot to add liar to Michael's accomplishments. According to HIS OWN WORDS, he's only had 2 surgeries, yet you have "proven" 3 with your little picture show and now, he's had "tons" ???
You're the one who keeps saying he can't be guilty because of all of the "good" he's done, why is it not fair for us to say he's guilty because of the "eccentricities"? Pot, meet Mr. Kettle ::)
In the Diane Sawyer interview in 1995, when asked about his plastic surgery Michael said, "I'm and artist I can do what I like, I might decide to put a red do here (points to his forehead) or have two eyes here (points to his cheeks)."
Three operations is tons. So it's not like I'm contradicting myself. IMO 3 operations is plenty. The only reason Michael told Bashir it was 2 is because at the time he only had 2. It was after that documentary when Michael nose collapse and doctors had to fix it up. So I guess you can leave liar out of Michael's accomplishments. Anyway, his plastic surgery is his business so if he has or if he does ever lie to someone about his plastic surgery then that's OK. It's kinda like saying "shove it". These people don't need to know every detail of Michael's personal life. If Michael gives them a smart ass answer, it serves them right for being so nosey!
As I've said before Michael is an artist and what he does and how he looks is part of his artistry. I never said he can't be guilty because of all the good he's done. I said he can't be a bad person because of all the good he's done. I'm saying he can't be guilty because there's no evidence, there's no individual witnesses, all the evidence is against the prosecution, with every week the prosecutions case is crumbling more and more. It's ridculous to even suggest Michael might be guilty.
If you want to use his "eccentricities" as a way of proving his guilt, then that's fine with me. If taht's all you've got against Michael then this case is even more of a joke than I thought!
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Robbo on 04/03/05 at 1:37 am
Yes. California allows that now in cases of sexual abuse/assault. It shows patterns of behavior....not that there is not enough evidence in the current case to convict ;)
No. What it shows is a pattern of false allegations....not that there is a pattern of behavior.
Only one boy is testifying and he's testifying for Michael. Three out of the five boys that Sneddon referrs to as "victims" have repeatedly said Michael never molested them. I think Melville let these "past acts" come in because he wanted some entertainment. He wanted to see Sneddon make a fool of himself trying to prove that Michael has a history of bad behaviour. I'm gonna love this coming week. I'm gonna be laughing so hard. I don't think Sneddon realises how much the jury and court think he's a complete joke.
Keep in mind the defense haven't even presented their case yet. LOL! The defense are winning, and they haven't even presented their case yet. This is beyond a joke!
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Robbo on 04/03/05 at 7:16 am
Aww! :) Time for a little inspirational article. This right here is what it's all about. This here is what strength, inspiration, survival, courage, innocence and love is all about. Take a look.
Michael Jackson’s ‘Great Courage’
The King of Pop is an inspiration, says former South African president Nelson Mandela.
WEB-EXCLUSIVE COMMENTARY
By Andy Borowitz
Newsweek
Updated: 3:10 p.m. ET March 29, 2005
March 29 - Former South African President Nelson Mandela said today that he gained strength during his many years of imprisonment by thinking about Michael Jackson, adding that the King of Pop continues to be a source of inspiration for him today.
advertisement
"When you are behind bars with no hope of release, you need to find strength wherever you can," Mandela said in an exclusive interview with a Danish magazine. "Personally, I found strength in Michael Jackson."
The former South African president said that while imprisoned in the 1980s, he drew emotional sustenance from following Jackson's recording career. "It took great courage to leave the Jackson Five and go solo," Mandela said. "I thought to myself, if he had the courage to do that, I, too, must have the will to go on."
Even to this day, Mandela said, Michael Jackson is "a constant source of inspiration," adding, "When I am not drawing strength from Michael Jackson, I am drawing strength from Martha Stewart."
Jackson received kind words from another international icon today, the boxer Muhammad Ali, who told a Norwegian newspaper that he, too, draws inspiration from the platinum-selling recording artist.
"When people ask me where I get my strength from, I tell them that I look at the man Michael Jackson looks at when he looks at the man in the mirror," the former heavyweight champion said.
Elsewhere, with enlistment levels falling, the Pentagon said it would focus its recruitment effort on people who had not read a newspaper in the past two years.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7328491/site/newsweek/
Look, reading back on my posts I've realised that I've been trying to explain who Michael is and it hasn't worked. I've made Michael look even worse and made myself look bad in the process. The above article is what Michael Jackson is all about. Forget what I said. I said it before and I'll say it again, I'm an idiot.
If there's one thing I know, Michael Jackson is an idol for us all. His is a story of hard work, making it, survival, strength, heartbreak, tragedy, love, caring and above all, innocence.
When I think of Michael Jackson, all I want to do is cry. He's a very misunderstood musical genius. I can't believe people have the nerve to call Michael Jackson wacky. If someone says they love children and the first thing people think of is sexual behaviour, then there's something wrong with those people, there's something wrong with society. It's a sad day in the world when (I hate to bring in the race card, but) a black man cannot show his love and compassion for children all over the world without being persecuted and labelled a pedophile. It's very, very sad. I'm ashamed to be a part of such a sick and racist world. I'm ashamed.
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: sputnikcorp on 04/03/05 at 10:40 am
he's not my idol but it's for different reasons. i don't care if he's black or not or has sex with donkey's. i just don't like his music, actually i hate all pop music and afterall, he's the king of pop.
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: RockandRollFan on 04/03/05 at 11:46 am
he's not my idol but it's for different reasons. i don't care if he's black or not or has sex with donkey's. i just don't like his music, actually i hate all pop music and afterall, he's the king of pop.
and sometimes he's the Queen...either way, he's a loon :D
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: RockandRollFan on 04/03/05 at 2:24 pm
What I'm pointing out is that if he's going to lie about something as minor as the plastic surgery he's had done, what's to keep him from lying about something much bigger, as in molesting children??? Well, what does he expect? He IS wacky. How many people do you know who wear surgical masks? Who dress their children in veils when they go out?
And, it's not that Michael says that he "loves children" that make people suspicious, it's his actions. I mean, come on, can you HONESTLY say that when someone says they see nothing wrong with sharing a bed with children, if it wasn't MJ, you'd think nothing of it? And, after being "falsely" accused once before, don't you think someone would change their behaviors just a little bit? I'm not saying he has to turn his back on children, but to continue acting in the same way, IMO, is somewhat suspicious ???
There's just no getting the obvious through to people with blind loyalty :-\\
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: whitewolf on 04/03/05 at 6:50 pm
He's not a kid, you can't be a kid all your life. But his PR people have been trying to create the image of a man you doesn't grow up.
Jackson's 'Peter Pan' Image Slipping Away
By TIM MOLLOY
Associated Press Writer
SANTA MARIA, Calif. (AP) -- It turns out Peter Pan grew up after all. Saying he never had a true childhood, Michael Jackson made his home into a children's fantasy, called it Neverland and once insisted to an interviewer "I am Peter Pan," referring to the boy who refused to grow up.
But the image Jackson has worked so hard to preserve slips away during his criminal trial with each new reference to drinking and each new display of his many adult magazines.
I think this proves that it wasn't his pr people wanting him to seem like a Peter Pan wanna be.
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Robbo on 04/03/05 at 8:05 pm
What I'm pointing out is that if he's going to lie about something as minor as the plastic surgery he's had done, what's to keep him from lying about something much bigger, as in molesting children??? Well, what does he expect? He IS wacky. How many people do you know who wear surgical masks? Who dress their children in veils when they go out?
And, it's not that Michael says that he "loves children" that make people suspicious, it's his actions. I mean, come on, can you HONESTLY say that when someone says they see nothing wrong with sharing a bed with children, if it wasn't MJ, you'd think nothing of it? And, after being "falsely" accused once before, don't you think someone would change their behaviors just a little bit? I'm not saying he has to turn his back on children, but to continue acting in the same way, IMO, is somewhat suspicious ???
You don't just lie about molesting a child. You can point the gun at Michael and say he's lying, he's guilty. But have you any idea of the accusing family. Have you been reading all the articles I've been posting. People are ignoring anything the sheds bad light on the prosecution and whenever there's anything that sheds the slightest bit of bad light on the defense, it's bombshell and it's all over the news. Seriously, if you take the time to find out a little something about the case, you'll changed your mind alot.
Again. Michael never said he shared his bed with children. He said he shared his bed with Mac Kulkin, but when he was talking about Gavin, he stressed that he slept on the floor and the kid slept on the bed. Don't you think if Michael was really in a sexual relationship with this boy that he wouldn't parade him around on TV. he wouldn't mention children at all if that were the case. Sorry to state the obvious but if you murder someone or rape someone you don't go on TV and say "Guess what!! I raped someone and then I killed them!!"
I want you to get to know this case a little better, go back a few pages and read the articles I've posted. I would like to remind you that the defense is winning, yet they haven't even presented their case yet!
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Robbo on 04/03/05 at 11:08 pm
Oh yeah, like every child molester's just admitted it. The person who molested me lied about up until the day he died. You have no clue what I do or do not know about the case so don't tell me that by reading a few articles you've posted, I'll change my mind.From the interview transcript:
On Jackson's habit of sharing his bedroom with children:
Bashir: "When you are talking about children we met Gavin - and it was a
great privilege to meet Gavin because he's had a lot of suffering in his life
- when Gavin was there he talked about the fact that he shares your bedroom?"
Jackson: "Yes."
Bashir: "Can you understand why people would worry about that?"
Jackson: "Because they are ignorant."
Bashir: "But is it really appropriate for a 44-year-old man to share a
bedroom with a child that is not related to him at all?"
Jackson: "That's a beautiful thing."
Bashir: "That's not a worrying thing?"
Jackson: "Why should that be worrying, what's the criminal...who's Jack the
Ripper in the room? There's some guy trying to heal a healing child ... I'm
in a sleeping bag on the floor.
"I gave him the bed because he has a brother named Star, so him and Star took
the bed and I went along on the sleeping bag ?"
Bashir: "Did you ever sleep in the bed with them?"
Jackson: "No. But I have slept in a bed with many children.
"I slept in a bed with all of them when Macauley Culkin was little: Kieran
Culkin would sleep on this side, Macauley Culkin was on this side, his
sisters in there...we all would just jam in the bed, you know.
"We would wake up like dawn and go in the hot air balloon, you know, we had
the footage. I have all that footage."
Bashir: "But is that right Michael?"
Jackson: "It's very right. It's very loving, that's what the world needs now,
more love more heart ?"
Bashir: "The world needs a man who's 44 who's sleeping in a bed with
children?"
Jackson: "No, you're making it - no, no you're making it all wrong ..."
Bashir: "Well, tell me, help me ..."
Jackson: "Because what's wrong with sharing a love? You don't sleep with your
kids? Or some other kid who needs love who didn't have a good childhood ?"
Bashir: "No, no I don't. I would never dream ..."
Jackson: "That's because you've never been where I've been mentally ..."
Bashir: "What do you think people would say if I said well - 'I've invited
some of my daughter's friends round or my son's friends round and they are
going to sleep in a bed with me tonight'?
Jackson: "That's fine!"
Bashir: "What do you think their parents would say?"
Jackson: "If they're wacky they would say 'You can't', but if you're close
family, like your family, and you know them well and ..."
Bashir: "But Michael, I wouldn't like my children to sleep in anybody else's
bed."
Jackson: "Well, I wouldn't mind if I knew the person well. I am very close to
Barry Gibb - Paris and Prince can stay with him anytime; my children sleep
with other people all the time.
Bashir: "And you're happy with that?"
Jackson: "Fine with it. They're honest, they are sweet people. They are not
Jack the Ripper."
One would think that if he had been accused of molesting boys, he'd not even share a bedroom with them. Why put yourself in a position to possibly be accused again?
No, you wouldn't. If you molested someone, you also wouldn't go on tv and say "GUESS WHAT! I molested some little boys" I've read the articles. For every "positive" spun article you post, I could post a "negative" one...
That transcript is great. That's what I've been saying. The public are wacky for even suggesting Michael sleeps with boys. There's something wrong if a man talks about how much he loves children and straight away people think sexual. There's definately something wrong.
The thing is, the articles I posted aren't spun in anyway. The article about Katz is facts, and nothing but the facts. Don't you ever wonder what happens to all those negative headlines? They are big news one day, and the defense get in the courtroom the next day and suddenly that big news is gone. The defense has so far turned every prosecution witness onto their side. It's a ridiculous case. Bottom line.
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Robbo on 04/05/05 at 6:24 am
A little update on the trial.
Jason Franscia (an alleged past-victim) testified. He apparently burst into tears, he told jurors he had to go through 5 years of councelling to get over the trauma, and overall he made a big impression on the judges with his waterworks.
The only problems is, what he said in his testimony is not what he told police.
When Jason was interviewed by the LA District Attorney, and the SBDA (Tom Sneddon), his story was said to be "wishy-washy" about what happened. Neither DA decided to pursue a criminal case after hearing the boy's story.
Another problem that the boy had troubles getting around was his mother. His mother was paid $2500 by "Hard Copy" to tell her story about what she say at Neverland. She claimed she saw Michael Jackson and her son in the shower while Michael was fondling her son. The question still remains, why the hell didn't she do anything if she saw her son being molested by a grown man. When asked why, she replied, she didn't want to lose her job (she was a maid at Neverland). If I was her, I wouldn't give a crap about my job. I would stop what was going on and quit. I wouldn't wait around to get fired. I wouldn't want to work with the man who molested my son! Her story doesn't quite cut it.
It did end up that she did lose her job. She claims Michael fired her when he learned she witnessed the molestation, when infact she was fired because she was caught stealing things from Neverland. She's lucky Michael didn't press charges. She still owes money to Michael to this day for the stolen items.
Another thing that doesn't quite cut it with this woman is the fact that she said on "Hard Copy" the she witnessed Michael molest her son, but then later shanged her story and said she never saw anything, but she didn't deny that she thought Michael molested her son. She said she made up the story on "Hard Copy" and said she knew nothing of Michael molested her son, but knows that he has molested her son and other boys too.
I guess that the boy himself, Jason, seems believable, and his testimony is very damaging to the defense. But when T Mez cross examines him, he is sure to bring up his mother. Why is it that all these "victims" have parents who admittedly lied, and who are obviously money-hungry.
Jordan Chandler's father had a history of making allegations against people and accepting pay-offs. Once again he accepted a pay-off in the 1993 case against Michael.
Jason Franscia's mother admittedly lied after accepted $2500 to tell her story on "Hard Copy".
Gavin Arvizo's mother has a history of making allegations against celebrities and accepting pay-offs. She has also lied under oath numerous times and the defense seek to prove that she pursued this case in hope of receiving a financial settlement.
Anyone else seeing a patern here? I don't think it's a coinsidence that all the "victimes" parents appear to be after money. Michael Jackson is rich, and an easy target. His very vunerable and has admitted to sleeping in the same room as children and sometimes in the same bed, but never anything sexual. These parents see Michael, they think money, they know the public is vunerable and will believe that he is a peadophile. In the publis's eye, Michael is weird and wacky, he's had plastic surgery, changed his skin, dangled his son off a balcony so what rules molesting children out?
This is not the case. Michael Jackson a target, and the Arvizo family air aiming for bullseye. But it's hard to hit a moving target, who is ready for your every move. The defense have been one step ahead all the time. A witness delivers, what seems, a damaging testimony one day, and the next day, the defense rips it to shreds.
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: RockandRollFan on 04/05/05 at 10:36 am
Did you miss the bold print? He's been saying it for years, but people had no problem with it until he was accused of molesting boys. Oh puhleeze....not "spun"? Why are only negative facts listed then? Why not mention on any cases that they made NO errors in?
And I actually wondered why your staement above didn't get a reply...just a LONG update of the circus...I mean, Trial :D
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: RockandRollFan on 04/05/05 at 11:59 am
And, people wonder why defense attorney get bad raps and many "victims" of rape/molestation don't come forward ::)
My reply to that is a resounding http://elouai.com/images/yahoo/35.gif
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: RockandRollFan on 04/05/05 at 4:00 pm
eh, won't be the first time a post of mine was misread, or not read at all ;)
Hey, I've read all your posts here as well as the others. While I find your to be on topic and very accurate, some of the others, while making me laugh in the beginning, I now find them to be causing a migraine to develop :D
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Robbo on 04/06/05 at 1:17 am
And, people wonder why defense attorney get bad raps and many "victims" of rape/molestation don't come forward ::)
What's wrong with doing a job. The point of corss-examining if for the defense to try and pin-point the lies and the contradictions.
I take my hat off to T Mez. Not many defense lawyers have the skill to turn every prosecution witness on to the defense side. So far, what the witnesses have said has actually helped the defense. T mez is the best defense lawyer there is, no doubt.
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Robbo on 04/06/05 at 1:36 am
Hahahahaha! ;D
I just downloaded and read the transcript from the direct questioning and the cross examing of Jason Franscia (an alleged victim).
I was worried when I was reading the direct questioning by Tom Sneddon. It sounded to me like a very damaging testimony that the defense would have a hard time getting around. One thing that made it so damaging was that the "victim" (now aged 24), remembered every little detail and kept a straight story (unlike the current alleged victim).
By the end of the direst questioning, I thought, "Michael Jackson is done".
Then I read the cross examing by T Mez, POW!!! T Mez blew the prosecution out of the water!
Suddenly, the boy couldn't remeber anything! Fine, I can accept that he doesn't remember much from the police interigation back in 1994, I'll give him that, it was a while ago. But surely he could remember an hour long interigation that occured last year! He could remember everything about the alleged molestation that he claims occured in 1993, but he couldn't even remember what prosecutor questioned him only days earlier. he seemed to recall everything from the alleged molestation, even exactly where the sleeping bag was positioned to the right of the TV near a window. I mean come on! No-one can remember stuff that accurately from 12 years ago and not remember what happened yesterday! WTF!! Does this guy have selective memory or something?
Talk about a job well done by T Mez. He absolutely destroyed this guy's credibility.
With a mother who sold her story to "Hard Copy" for $2500, and then later saying she made it all up, and with his own credibility completely destroyed, this "victim" stands no chance!
The prosecution thought they had this in the bag. the rehearsed his testimony, they told him exactly what to say to each direct question, they even thought him how to fake cry in front of a jury, but never where they prepared for what the defense had in store for them!
I'm so happy for Michael. It's true what they say, lies get half way around the world before the truth has time to puts its shoes on. The truth has finally laced up and is kickin some serious butt!!!
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: whitewolf on 04/06/05 at 10:11 am
he seemed to recall everything from the alleged molestation, even exactly where the sleeping bag was positioned to the right of the TV near a window. I mean come on! No-one can remember stuff that accurately from 12 years ago and not remember what happened yesterday! WTF!! Does this guy have selective memory or something?
I can remember every detail of what happened to me almost 17 years ago. But sometimes I forget other things, like doctors appointments or meetings. With a traumatic event, things stick in your mind.
Ever hear of Post Traumatic Syndrome. Originally it was used to describe how war affected the veterans, but now they are seeing it in alot of People that had a traumatic experience.
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: RockandRollFan on 04/06/05 at 10:29 am
So THAT'S why I keep getting them....I didn't think of that ;D Thanks Mark :) ;)
Anytime, Kim! It's just amazing to me that some people can't see through thier own piles of BS! And here I thought the idiotic mentality that praised our legal system for freeing OJ was finally crawling back to the hole where all the criminals and thier defenders/fans came from :P
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: sputnikcorp on 04/06/05 at 12:38 pm
;D...robbo got burned.
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: RockandRollFan on 04/06/05 at 12:45 pm
Yet another reason why it's always important to check the links given and not just read what's copied/pasted 8)
;DThorough, eh Kim :D
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: RockandRollFan on 04/06/05 at 12:54 pm
Well, you know, it just sounded too far fetched to be true, and I didn't want to be accused of any wrongdoing, although I'm sure I'm still going to be accused of something ;)
But aren't we all...the few that dare to not buy the stories from the King/Queen, Flit Boy of Pop/Crap ::) ;)
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Robbo on 04/07/05 at 12:52 am
It's not so unusual. I remember every graphic detail from when I was raped 16 years ago (down to the pattern on his boxers - olive green diamonds with dark grey pinstripes, the pattern on his sheets - white with blue & red stripes, the posters on the wall - a periodic table on the left with the abbreviations in red & numbers in blue, a Motley Crue in the middle & Tawny Kitaen on the right on one wall and on the opposite wall - a psychadelic smiley face above the bed) but couldn't tell you the name of the woman I talked to at my bank on Monday. I also remember the conversation with the sponsor for the guy's fraternity and the dean of students, but can't recall either name. FROM MY EXPERIENCE with a traumatic event such as this, it makes his testimony more credible.
Read the transcripts. The details were too exact. It just doesn't fit. In 1994 when he was interigated by police, his answers her "wish-washy" and no district attorney would file the case. He couldn't give details of anything that happened. When interigated again in 2004 he didn't gived details of what happened and used the excuse "It was too long ago, I can't remember." 1994 can be forgiven, he was 13, but 2004 when he was 23? give me a break. During his testimony, only 1 year later he gave the prosecutor every exact detail. It just doesn't fit. The guy is also stupid for mentioning 5 years of councelling. Experts say that is too long and if a person keeps saying for 5 years, that they were molested, they will believe it. If a lie is told enough, it become the truth.
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Howard on 04/07/05 at 1:56 pm
But aren't we all...the few that dare to not buy the stories from the King/Queen, Flit Boy of Pop/Crap ::) ;)
Hi Mark.You always bring up flit boy.
What exactly is "flit"? ;D
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: RockandRollFan on 04/08/05 at 5:23 pm
This JUST in....I think he may have just "Blown" his case :o ;D
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Robbo on 04/09/05 at 12:42 am
I love how every "witness" is after revenge and they all have the same story. They are all ex-employees of Neverland, and they all feel they were unfairly terminated. Thay claim to have seen something but never called the police. They all claim they didn't contact authorities because they didn't want to lose their jobs, and my question for them is, why would you want to keep a job working for a man who you saw molesting children.
Sneddon thinks that by getting loads ex-employees to say they saw Michael molest kids, people will believe it. If a lie is told enough, it becomes the truth. Has it ever occured to Sneddon that the defense still have to present their case yet! IMO, Mac Kulkin needs to get on the stand. Michael will deny that he molested Mac, but people wont believe him until Mac says it himself. Mac will help Michael, he will testify that Michael never molested him. But he said that he would only testify if Michael really needs him. Well Mac, I think he needs you now!
These testimonies by ex-employees have been very damaging, but T Mez has destroyed the credibility of every witness so far. The jury have gone from going :o at the witnesses to going ;D.
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: goodsin on 04/09/05 at 8:14 am
The jury have gone from going :o at the witnesses to going ;D.
As opposed to MJ, who just went down on them... ;D
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: RockandRollFan on 04/09/05 at 9:35 am
That's not all he's "blown" :o
;D ;)
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: RockandRollFan on 04/09/05 at 9:40 am
So, if you keep telling us he's "innocent" and the "defense is winning", you think it'll make us believe it? After all, if you tell a lie enough, it becomes truth??? And, if the "defense is winning", then why does MJ need Macaulay to testify so badly? There are some who say he doesn't want to testify because he doesn't want to have to lie under oath. After all, his statements that he was never molested by Jacko have been in the press, afaik ::)
I'd like to go on record...again, to say that even IF he ,pardon the pun, "Gets Off"...though not a murderer, I would clissify him the same as OJ...an evil, sorry excuse for a human being...who got away with multiple crimes. So IF he gets away with it, don't expect me to say I'm sorry and I was wrong, or for me to be embarrassed...just to be pissed!
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: RockandRollFan on 04/09/05 at 10:26 am
Well, I wouldn't necessarily equate him to OJ, but you point is well taken. Don't expect an apology from me either, because I think he's guilty as hell and no "spin" by the lawyers is going to change that! I have to admit that I'm biased, though; and I sincerely hope that he really didn't do what he's accused of because if he did, he deserves to rot in hell >:(
Yeah, I know he didn't kill anybody (hopefully) but it's killing the innocense of a child when you do something horrific like moletation...my ex knows all too well :\'(
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Robbo on 04/09/05 at 6:55 pm
Well, I wouldn't necessarily equate him to OJ, but you point is well taken. Don't expect an apology from me either, because I think he's guilty as hell and no "spin" by the lawyers is going to change that! I have to admit that I'm biased, though; and I sincerely hope that he really didn't do what he's accused of because if he did, he deserves to rot in hell >:(
So if T Mez prooves that these "witnesses: are lying, if he gets Mac and Wade in to testify that Michael never molested them, if he shows evidence that Sneddon has a vendetta against MJ, if he prooves that Michael is innocent, you still wont forgive him, you still wont lay off, you still wont accept him?
Sorry, but that inhumane. And to think I once thought there was a bit of good in everyone. ::)
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: RockandRollFan on 04/09/05 at 7:10 pm
So if T Mez prooves that these "witnesses: are lying, if he gets Mac and Wade in to testify that Michael never molested them, if he shows evidence that Sneddon has a vendetta against MJ, if he prooves that Michael is innocent, you still wont forgive him, you still wont lay off, you still wont accept him?
Sorry, but that inhumane. And to think I once thought there was a bit of good in everyone. ::)
IF he gets away with it, don't expect me to say I'm sorry and I was wrong, or for me to be embarrassed...just to be ticked! I've never had children spend the night in a bed with me...especially at my age. It's not about people being good...it's about people making good choices.
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Robbo on 04/09/05 at 7:13 pm
IF he gets away with it, don't expect me to say I'm sorry and I was wrong, or for me to be embarrassed...just to be ticked! I've never had children spend the night in a bed with me...especially at my age. It's not about people being good...it's about people making good choices.
OK. Whatever. I guess some people just have a perveted mind. Don't worry, so does half the world.
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: RockandRollFan on 04/09/05 at 7:15 pm
OK. Whatever. I guess some people just have a perveted mind. Don't worry, so does half the world.
Well, I don't and so speaking just for myself, I stand by my feelings on him. I'm only sorry that we disaggree...
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Robbo on 04/09/05 at 7:18 pm
Well, I don't and so speaking just for myself, I stand by my feelings on him. I'm only sorry that we disaggree...
Why do you have to veiw Michael Jackson in a sinister light? It's disgusting that when a black man says he shares a bed with children, that people straight away think sexual. It's perverted.
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Dagwood on 04/09/05 at 7:25 pm
Why do you have to veiw Michael Jackson in a sinister light? It's disgusting that when a black man says he shares a bed with children, that people straight away think sexual. It's perverted.
His race isn't an issue here. Any man sharing a bed with children is disgusting. The first thing people are going to think is that it is sexual. I don't know why you are bringing race into it. As far as I see no one else has.
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: RockandRollFan on 04/09/05 at 7:35 pm
Why do you have to veiw Michael Jackson in a sinister light? It's disgusting that when a black man says he shares a bed with children, that people straight away think sexual. It's perverted.
No, NO! Don't make this a racial issue...race has NOTHING to do with my being sickened by him sharing a bed with children...that is sick in any color!
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: limblifter on 04/09/05 at 7:40 pm
Why do you have to veiw Michael Jackson in a sinister light? It's disgusting that when a black man says he shares a bed with children, that people straight away think sexual. It's perverted.
Must be the difference between the two cultures, Robbo. Since i've noticed that the people screaming the most that he's guilty regardless of the outcome of the trial are white, I can only guess that it's something they just can't comprehend.
When I was a child my mother was going through some personal problems and I was forced to live with a foster family for a little over a year. That foster family happened to be black, and even though I was a white kid, they treated me with the same love that they had for their own children. And I can remember as a child laying in bed with my foster mother watching movies, playing games, or just sleeping.
It was never a sexual thing, we would have friends come over and pile into her bed to watch TV. Sometimes I would lie at the foot of her bed and rub her feet while she was doing her daughter's hair. And i've come to notice since being with my girlfriend, that her family is exactly the same.
So remember, just because something doesn't seem normal to you. Doesn't mean that it's not completely normal for someone else, especially if the other persons intentions are not "evil", or bad.
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Robbo on 04/09/05 at 7:58 pm
Must be the difference between the two cultures, Robbo. Since i've noticed that the people screaming the most that he's guilty regardless of the outcome of the trial are white, I can only guess that it's something they just can't comprehend.
When I was a child my mother was going through some personal problems and I was forced to live with a foster family for a little over a year. That foster family happened to be black, and even though I was a white kid, they treated me with the same love that they had for their own children. And I can remember as a child laying in bed with my foster mother watching movies, playing games, or just sleeping.
It was never a sexual thing, we would have friends come over and pile into her bed to watch TV. Sometimes I would lie at the foot of her bed and rub her feet while she was doing her daughter's hair. And i've come to notice since being with my girlfriend, that her family is exactly the same.
So remember, just because something doesn't seem normal to you. Doesn't mean that it's not completely normal for someone else, especially if the other persons intentions are not "evil", or bad.
I think you got me wrong. I was supporting Michael, and supporting the fact that he shares his bed with children. There's nothing wrong with it, you're right. I was saying that the public are sick and perverted for thinking of it as being sexual. Why muts people view everything Michael does in a sinister light?
Thta's a nice story limblifter and I hope that throught your story, these people who say sharing a bed with children is disgusting, will realise that it's all pure and innocent.
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Robbo on 04/09/05 at 7:58 pm
;D I just found these two pics.
Somehow, I think the defense has more evidence than the proseuction...
The prosecution's evidence...
http://au.wrs.yahoo.com/;_ylt=ApG6r6_t6eek2bUTfxr9IS8W5gt.;_ylu=X3oDMTA4NDgyNWN0BHNlYwNwcm9m/**http%3A%2F%2Fus.news2.yimg.com%2Fus.yimg.com%2Fp%2Fafp%2F20050405%2Fcapt.sge.ece28.050405134227.photo01.photo.default-282x364.jpg
The defense's evidence...
http://missmariahcarey.free.fr/MJ/52590555.jpg
LMAO!! ;D
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: whitewolf on 04/09/05 at 8:01 pm
Why do you have to veiw Michael Jackson in a sinister light? It's disgusting that when a black man says he shares a bed with children, that people straight away think sexual. It's perverted.
Doesn't matter to me what race he is, any man or adult for that matter that wants to sleep with kids (that isn't their own) is questionable. I know I would not want my kids sleeping in the same bed with an adult, especially with someone that was already accused before.
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Robbo on 04/09/05 at 8:05 pm
Doesn't matter to me what race he is, any man or adult for that matter that wants to sleep with kids (that isn't their own) is questionable. I know I would not want my kids sleeping in the same bed with an adult, especially with someone that was already accused before.
It doesn't matter what race he is!! I juts said, black man, because Michael is a black man. I wasn't inferring that he was any different. Did you read limblifter's post?
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: whitewolf on 04/09/05 at 8:09 pm
It doesn't matter what race he is!! I juts said, black man, because Michael is a black man. I wasn't inferring that he was any different. Did you read limblifter's post?
you did say because he is a black man, people automatically think he is perverted when he shares a bed with kids.
yes I read limblifter's post, I agree that sometimes it is innocent, but when you have more than one accusation, it's time to stop sleeping with kids.
Ever hear the saying "Where there is smoke, there must be fire"
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: RockandRollFan on 04/09/05 at 8:14 pm
Most children know better than to climb into the sack with Flit Boy!
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: whitewolf on 04/09/05 at 8:17 pm
Most children know better than to climb into the sack with Flit Boy!
and Most parents know better than to let their kids go with a KNOWN child molester.
At least some kids hav a bit of sense.
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Robbo on 04/09/05 at 8:31 pm
and Most parents know better than to let their kids go with a KNOWN child molester.
At least some kids hav a bit of sense.
He's not a known child molester? WTF!!! This has gone too far. Not only do you people choose not to follow the case and juts stick with your opinion that if he shares his bed with children, he must be guilty of molesting them. Now your making up stuff!!
If you actually knew what is going on in the case, you'd change your mind alot!
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: RockandRollFan on 04/09/05 at 8:33 pm
and Most parents know better than to let their kids go with a KNOWN child molester.
At least some kids have a bit of sense.
Well, if I was flit boy, I would have had the common sense to STOP having little boys sleep in bed with him. He has NO common sense :D
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: whitewolf on 04/09/05 at 8:47 pm
Well, if I was flit boy, I would have had the common sense to STOP having little boys sleep in bed with him. He has NO common sense :D
I know. I don't think he has a conscience, or he would have realized that, the first time he was accused.
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: 80scheerleader on 04/09/05 at 9:06 pm
So if T Mez prooves that these "witnesses: are lying, if he gets Mac and Wade in to testify that Michael never molested them, if he shows evidence that Sneddon has a vendetta against MJ, if he prooves that Michael is innocent, you still wont forgive him, you still wont lay off, you still wont accept him?
Sorry, but that inhumane. And to think I once thought there was a bit of good in everyone. ::)
How is he going to "prove" they're lying?  Videotape?  Their own confessions?  Who's to say that if they are "lying" about him molesting them, they won't "lie" about him not?
He's not a known child molester? WTF!!! This has gone too far. Not only do you people choose not to follow the case and juts stick with your opinion that if he shares his bed with children, he must be guilty of molesting them. Now your making up stuff!!
If you actually knew what is going on in the case, you'd change your mind alot!
Why do you automatically assume we know nothing of the case?  What's wrong with us formulating our OWN opinions?  Christ, you're as bad as the religious people who automatically assume that if someone doesn't believe in God, they haven't looked hard enough or read the Bible enough or prayed enough.
I've already said why I think he's guilty.  ANd, I don't have to justify my opinion to you.
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: whitewolf on 04/09/05 at 9:14 pm
He's not a known child molester? WTF!!! This has gone too far. Not only do you people choose not to follow the case and juts stick with your opinion that if he shares his bed with children, he must be guilty of molesting them. Now your making up stuff!!
If you actually knew what is going on in the case, you'd change your mind alot!
I already have changed my mind, I used to think he was innocent because of the mother being money hungry, but with all these other kids coming forward-hey if he looks like a freak, acts like a freak , sounds like a freak, then he must be a freak.
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Robbo on 04/10/05 at 12:50 am
I already have changed my mind, I used to think he was innocent because of the mother being money hungry, but with all these other kids coming forward-hey if he looks like a freak, acts like a freak , sounds like a freak, then he must be a freak.
Well then, it looks like Sneddon's plan is working. Don't you get it? He's using the shock factor. Your post is a classic example of why I assume you people don't know much about the case. All these other kids coming forward? One "victim" came forward and his credibility was completely destroyed. He's not a credible witness. Sneddon claims there are 5 victims, but three out of thos say Michael never molested them and the other two are Jordy Chandler and the boy who's allready testified. Jordy Chandler isn't testifying, but Sneddon is going to talk about the 1993 allegations for a bit. The whole of next week will probably be dealing with 1993. The defense haven't even presented their case yet and people are allready making assumptions.
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: MaxwellSmart on 04/10/05 at 1:47 am
Most children know better than to climb into the sack with Flit Boy!
Are you sure that picture is not a hoax? It might be a hoax, you know. Seriously.
;D
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Robbo on 04/10/05 at 2:06 am
I just thought I'd bring this to your attention.
Mr. Chocan is an ex-employee of Neverland and he testified that he saw Michael Jackson kiss little boys at Neverland. After reading the transcripts I've concluded that Mr. Chocan is not d\credible at all. He said he didn't recall tellin a therapist that he wanted millions from Michael until the court showed him a transcript of the interview, and then he recalled it. So he is after Michael Jackson money.
He took out a lawsuit against Michael Jackson in 1994 because he believe he was wrongfully terminated. The jury found that he wasn't wrongfully terminated, and he was terminated because he stole items from Neverland. So there's another motive for Mr. Chocan to testify against Michael.
His accusations are unbelievable. He claims he saw Michael kiss a little boy. When he was ased where Michael kissed the boy, Mr. Chocan replied, "I'm not sure, but I know he kissed him." Then when he was asked how long Mr. Jackson kissed the bot, Mr. Chocan replied, "I'm not sure, maybe between 10 seconds and 20 minutes" he can't tell if it was 10 seconds or 20 minutes? Pleeease.
Mr. Chocan has a financial motive, and his accusations are completely absurd.
Thought you should know before you go around saying "I think he's guilty because all these witnesses are coming forward, saying they saw Michael molest boys."
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Tony20fan4ever on 04/10/05 at 3:04 am
Michael Jackson is GUILTY,GUILTY,GUILTY!! I do not see at all why anyone would defend Jacko...I think Robbo never watches CNN,CourtTV,or even reads the daily newspaper....
Child molestation is CHILD MOLESTATION....and that's that. Not all kids lie about that kind of thing.
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Robbo on 04/10/05 at 6:03 am
Michael Jackson is GUILTY,GUILTY,GUILTY!! I do not see at all why anyone would defend Jacko...I think Robbo never watches CNN,CourtTV,or even reads the daily newspaper....
Child molestation is CHILD MOLESTATION....and that's that. Not all kids lie about that kind of thing.
Damn right I don't watch CourtTV. Did you know Diane Dimond is in this with the prosecution? She admitted on her show that she was at Neverland on the day of the raid. She's working with Sneddon to deliver bias reports, and leaks to the public.
I don't buy newspaper's, because who can get all your information on the net. I read articles about the Jackson trial on MSNBC, Yahoo!, CNN, Fox, E! Online, actually E! Online is a very good place for the latest on the Jackson trial. You can watch the reannactments on the net, and they have an awesome feature which they call the scorecard, and they give each side points for each day. Who should check it out and see just how much of what the prosecution claims, actually becomes credible at the end of the day. Most of which the prosecution say is completely blown out of the water by T Mezx (the defense). He successful destroys the credibility of each and every witness. There hasn't been any damaging witnesses yet, except for the chef who claimed he saw Michael molest Mac. But wait til the defense present their case. I have no doubt they will get Mac to testify that Michael never molested him. They also have witnesses who heard Mr. Chocan (a witnessed who claims he saw Michael kiss a boy) actually say Michael is innocent of child molestation. The defense will have the jury eating out of their hands.
The web address for E! Online is www.eonline.com find the link for the Jackson trial and then click on "scorecard". You'll be surprised. Also read some of their articles and watch the reannactments. The best thing about E! is that they actaully have a balanced team of experts reporting the Jackson trial. Most unbias, and accurate news source on the net for Jackson news.
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Howard on 04/10/05 at 6:57 am
Mark,what exactly is a "flit boy?
What's a flit? ;D
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: LyricBoy on 04/10/05 at 7:51 am
It is obvious that Michael is beig railroaded with these charges.
In a few weeks he will be exonerated and he'll have the last laugh. Years from now we'll all look back at these times and let out a good chuckle.
And when Michael is exonerated, he can get on with his life and resume sleeping with little boys, a practice he's advocated on national TV.
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: RockandRollFan on 04/10/05 at 9:42 am
It is obvious that Michael is beig railroaded with these charges.
In a few weeks he will be exonerated and he'll have the last laugh. Years from now we'll all look back at these times and let out a good chuckle.
And when Michael is exonerated, he can get on with his life and resume sleeping with little boys, a practice he's advocated on national TV.
;D
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Tony20fan4ever on 04/10/05 at 12:45 pm
Well then, it looks like Sneddon's plan is working. Don't you get it? He's using the shock factor. Your post is a classic example of why I assume you people don't know much about the case. All these other kids coming forward? One "victim" came forward and his credibility was completely destroyed. He's not a credible witness. Sneddon claims there are 5 victims, but three out of thos say Michael never molested them and the other two are Jordy Chandler and the boy who's allready testified. Jordy Chandler isn't testifying, but Sneddon is going to talk about the 1993 allegations for a bit. The whole of next week will probably be dealing with 1993. The defense haven't even presented their case yet and people are allready making assumptions.
Yeah right. Jacko is soooooo sweet and innocent...like Osama Bin Laden is innocent of the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon...face the fact....Jacko is wacko!
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: RockandRollFan on 04/10/05 at 12:51 pm
Yeah right. Jacko is soooooo sweet and innocent...like Osama Bin Laden is innocent of the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon...face the fact....Jacko is wacko!
Your stocking him up with more ammo...he's say, "How can you compare Osama to Michael?" Just stick with what we know....he has little boys sleep in bed with him and has NO common sense whatsoever ;)
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Robbo on 04/11/05 at 1:20 am
Your stocking him up with more ammo...he's say, "How can you compare Osama to Michael?" Just stick with what we know....he has little boys sleep in bed with him and has NO common sense whatsoever ;)
Well done. So your basing your opinion that Michael is guilty on 2 things.
- He shares his bed with children
- He is very naive (or, "has NO common sense whatsoever" as you put it)
This is what I'm basing my opinion on, that Michae Jackson is innocent or all charges.
- The mother of the accuser has a history of making false allegations for financial gain
- The was no witness to the alleged molestation except for the boy's brother who couldn't have possible seen the bed from where he said he was standing
- There was no DNA evidence found
- The boy and his brother have contradicting testimonies
- The boy's family made a video praising Michael and proclaiming him as a father figure
- Tom Sneddon has a personal vendetta against Michael Jackson
- The family claimed they were kidnapped, but say that while they were imprisoned, they went to the beach and the mall without any of Michael's bodyguards and they never attempted to escape or call police
- Every witness to the past acts has a motive (financial, revenged etc.)
- T Mez has detroyed the credibility of every witness and has shown contradictions in their testimonies.
- Only 1 "victim" of past acts came forward, his crebility was destroyed, Mez showed a motive and showed contradictions in his testimoney
Want more?
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Robbo on 04/11/05 at 1:46 am
OMG!! I just came from MJJForum.com and the fans have discovered something enormous!
Thomas A. Mesereau Jr. is officially the best defense attorney in the world! The defense have something big, read on...
The defense can prove that the National Enquier started all this rubbish in 1991!
This guy named Baresi, I'm not sure who he is (he may be an ex-employee of Neverland), will testify for the defense when they present their case, possibly in a few weeks. He has a tape of the meetings between National Enquier and some employees from Neverland. On the tape, National Enquier offer the Neverland employees large sums of money to say Michael molests children. By large sums of money I mean hundreds of thousands!! This tape exists and will be handed in as evidence. Baresi has just recently come forward because of all the ex-employess testifying that they witnessed Michael molesting children, and Baresi can prove they are lying and they were paid to say these things. I'm not joking, this is fair dinkum. I just want to hug this Baresi guy. At least one ex-employee has a heart, and can not stand by an watch Michael suffer. This tape will ruin the prosecution.
LeMarque (the Neverland chef who said he saw Michael molest Mac Kulkin) accepted money from tabloids in 1991 to sell his story, but the tabloid organistion (allegedly NE) asked for their money back because they thought no-one would believe Michael molested Mac. LeMarque wouldn't give them their money back, and sued him in a lawsuit which LeMarque lost. To pay off his settlement, he worked overtime, but wasn't receiving enough money so he started stealing items from Neverland. He was eventually caught, fired, and then he filed a lawsuit claiming he was unfairly terminated. He also lost this lawsuit. It's reported he still owes to this day a million dollar settlement and he filed bankruptcy in 2002.
So Baresi has a tape which shows NE conversing with Neverland employees and offering them hundreds of thousands, which maybe linked to LeMarque who testified that he saw Michael molest Mac.
It may sound confusing at the moment, but all will be revealed soon. When all this balony is over, and the defense present their case, the whole things going to turn around.
This is great, substantial evidence. Something the prosecution are lacking!
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Robbo on 04/11/05 at 2:14 am
I have a feeling most of you get your info from CourtTV ::). So here's an artucle that actually explains what's going on in this trial at the moment. It's from associated press.
Case of the Ex – employees
Sunday, 10 April 2005
In the trial of Michael Jackson, prosecutors in the case called upon ex-employees of Mr. Jackson to give their account of ‘alleged’ acts they supposedly witnessed which would be deemed inappropriate.
The ex-employees of Mr. Jackson all confessed to having sold salacious stories to the highest profiting tabloid. These professed stories contained information on Mr. Jackson and his personal relationships with his long-time friend, Mr. Macauley Culkin and ex-wife, Lisa Marie-Presley. In testimony by Adrian McManus, she admitted she did not have knowledge on the personal relationship between Ms. Presley and Mr. Jackson, yet she signed contracts agreeing to give insight on how they spent their intimate time together.
It was also said by Ms. McManus that all the ex-employees used ‘media brokers' to profit off of hearsay to pay for the multi-million-dollar wrongful termination suit against Mr. Jackson; this case they lost in court and were given the mandate to pay Mr. Jackson $1.4 million.
Ralph Chacon, an ex-security guard who was also a part of the suit against Mr. Jackson, gave a testimony giving explicit details on an act Mr. Jackson allegedly committed with a young child. The defense for Mr. Jackson depicted Mr. Chacon’s account as a way ‘to get even’ for being pushed into filing bankruptcy due to a court’s judgment in favor of Michael Jackson.
In addition to the ex-employees, former chef Phillip LeMarque requested $500,000 to tell a tabloid that he witnessed Mr. Jackson’s hand in an inappropriate place on Macauley Culkin when he was a child. Mr. LeMarque has said, “Everybody was trying to sell our stories.†Although Mr. Culkin has always remained grounded with his statement that nothing improper has ever taken place between Mr. Jackson and himself, he has been quoted by his spokesperson that he will not have anything to do with the current case against Michael Jackson.
It is an inquiry among experts whether the testimonies given by the ex-employees helps or damages the case against Michael Jackson. Loyola Law Professor and former prosecutor Laurie Levenson speaks, “These witnesses are totally eclipsing the current case. Tom Sneddon is trying the case he didn’t get to try in 1993.†She is also noted saying, “For prosecutors the Achilles’ heel of presenting this type of evidence is they have these low-life witnesses who sold their souls to the tabloids.â€Â
However CBS News Analyst and author of Michael Jackson: The Magic and the Madness, J. Randy Taraborrelli, stated that as he was researching for his book twelve years earlier, he interviewed several Neverland employees that are now testifying. He decided not to quote them due to their financial motives. Mr. Taraborrelli said, “If these people did not have this baggage and if their stories ended with, ‘And then I went to the police’, my reaction would be - ‘Oh my God,’" he said. “But if you saw these things, a normal person would call the police; you don’t call the National Enquirer.â€Â
It is true that none of the ex-employees phoned the authorities until after they were contacted and were asked for evidence against Mr. Jackson. What kind of a person would wait to telephone protection for someone who was allegedly abused in such a foul manner?
“The legislation was never intended to just take all the garbage you can find in the defendant’s past and smear him enough to convict him. At this point, the case is looking like a smear campaign. It’s a legal free-for-all.†– Laurie Levenson, Loyola Law School Professor.
Source: AP
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Robbo on 04/11/05 at 5:12 pm
What? No links? As I pointed out on the other "story" you posted, I like to read them for myself. I'm not even going to bother responding to your list because you'll just ignore it anyway ::)
I don't ignore your posts, I just don't reply because you are as bad as the prosecution.
When I said the accuser gave a contradicting testimony filled with "I'm not sure" and "I don't recall", you made the excuse that it's very common for victims of child abbuse to be unclear on what actually happened to them because they've been traumatised and it's all a big blur to them (I know those aren't your exact words, but that's what you were saying,correct?)
Then when I pointed out that Jason Francsia (the 1 boy out of 5 who came forward) was very, very, very 100% accurate of the things that he claims Michael did to him. Even where the sleeping bag was positioned in the room, what MJ was wearing, what he was wearing etc. I thought it was too accurate for something that happened more than 10 years ago.
You made the excuse that it's very common for victims of child abbuse to be 100% accurate on the details because it's a traumatic event that sticks with you forever. You even said your self that you are a victim of child abbuse and you remember every detail 100% (I'm very sorry to hear that).
Which one is it? Who's telling the truth, who's lying? Do child abbuse victims know the details 100% or are they uncelar of what happened because it's all a big blur to them?
IMO, they are both lying. Gavin Arvizo is no longer a concern to this case. His accusation are as good as gone. Why else do you think Tom Sneddon is bringing in all these witnesses to "past acts"? There's too many holes in the case, and now that Sneddon realises this, he's filling those holes with BS!!
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: RockandRollFan on 04/11/05 at 5:16 pm
Well done. So your basing your opinion that Michael is guilty on 2 things.
- He shares his bed with children
- He is very naive (or, "has NO common sense whatsoever" as you put it)
This is what I'm basing my opinion on, that Michae Jackson is innocent or all charges.
- The mother of the accuser has a history of making false allegations for financial gain
- The was no witness to the alleged molestation except for the boy's brother who couldn't have possible seen the bed from where he said he was standing
- There was no DNA evidence found
- The boy and his brother have contradicting testimonies
- The boy's family made a video praising Michael and proclaiming him as a father figure
- Tom Sneddon has a personal vendetta against Michael Jackson
- The family claimed they were kidnapped, but say that while they were imprisoned, they went to the beach and the mall without any of Michael's bodyguards and they never attempted to escape or call police
- Every witness to the past acts has a motive (financial, revenged etc.)
- T Mez has detroyed the credibility of every witness and has shown contradictions in their testimonies.
- Only 1 "victim" of past acts came forward, his crebility was destroyed, Mez showed a motive and showed contradictions in his testimoney
Want more?
No thanks....anyone "Man" who sleeps in the same bed with children, lies about his MANY plastic surgeries, dangles his own child precariously over a balcony...doesn't know what color OR gender he is...naw..."The Flit Boy" is not important enought IMO, to defend, much less gives a rats @ss about. But YOU go ahead ;)
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Robbo on 04/12/05 at 12:49 am
Ever heard the story of Christ?
Jesus Christ had many followers, the twelve apostles they were called. One of the twelve apostles, Judas, betrayed Jesus and made up allegations about him which he sold to the Jews. They persecuted him and crusified him. He was set-up by one of his followers. He was betrayed.
In some ways, the Michael Jackson trial is somewhat the same. These ex-employees are Michael's Judas. Back in 1991, they betrayed Michael, made up allegations about him and sold them to the tabloids. Now, in 2005, people who have been trying to take down Michael for years finally get the chance because he is being betrayed by his ex-employees.
DISCLAIMER: In no way, shape or form am I comparing Michael Jackson to Jesus Christ. I am simply saying the events in Michael Jackson's trial are similiar to the events in the story of Chist.
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Robbo on 04/12/05 at 1:01 am
No thanks....anyone "Man" who sleeps in the same bed with children, lies about his MANY plastic surgeries, dangles his own child precariously over a balcony...doesn't know what color OR gender he is...naw..."The Flit Boy" is not important enought IMO, to defend, much less gives a rats @ss about. But YOU go ahead ;)
So the African culture is not important enough to give a rats about? It's very common in the African culture to share your bed. It's veiwed as a wonderful, lovely, caring thing in the African culture. The most loving thing to do is share your bed. I bet that growing up Michael would've went to sleep in the same bed as his aunties', uncles', parents', friends of the family's. So would've have his siblings, his parenst, their parents before that etc.
Do you actaully realise how many celebrities lie about having plastic surgery?
Showing his baby to the fans isn't a bad thing. It was blown out of proportion. Like the Steve Irwin thing. In the photo's it looked like Steve Irwin held his baby really close to the crocodile, but photo's from the side reveal that he was more than 5 meters away from the croc. Same thing with Michael. All the pictures and video footage is looking up at the balcony. To Michael, and I'm sure Martin Bashir (who was in the hotel room), would've seen that the baby wasn't being dangled over the balcony. It was a huge misconception.
I love Michael Jackson. He means more to me that my own life. I would die for him! I think that's enough reason to defend him IMO.
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: AL-B on 04/12/05 at 4:30 am
I love Michael Jackson. He means more to me that my own life. I would die for him!
Why? What has he ever done for you? I mean, there are plenty of artists whose music I enjoy immensely, but I'd never place their lives ahead of mine simply because they were famous. I don't care how much God-given talent they might have, at the end of the day they're still flawed human beings, just like anyone else. Does your life really revolve around him that much?
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: sputnikcorp on 04/12/05 at 7:33 am
i'm still toying with the idea that robbo is michael jackson.
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: AL-B on 04/12/05 at 8:29 pm
i'm still toying with the idea that robbo is michael jackson.
Well, if he ever builds an amusement park and if I ever have kids, they sure as hell aren't going there. :D
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: saver on 04/12/05 at 9:06 pm
THEN-IF YOU BELIEVE THE EARLIER BOYS MOTHER- Michael sobbed until she said okay, he can sleep with him...
Hmmm, these stories/recollections are pretty consistent...where are the 'girls' involved oh, I see a pattern and what a lovely pair of pants it makes!
The better to pull down! :-*
It all comes back to him(MJ) now!!!
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: RockandRollFan on 04/12/05 at 9:11 pm
saver brings up a good point....why do we never see pics of MJ and little girls? Other than his daughter, I don't think I've ever seen him "hanging out" with a young female....only males ???
He hung out with Diana Ross...but only for beauty tips ;D
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Dagwood on 04/12/05 at 9:46 pm
He hung out with Diana Ross...but only for beauty tips ;D
They said young females, Mark. ;)
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: RockandRollFan on 04/12/05 at 9:58 pm
They said young females, Mark. ;)
;) That's right, Dagny. He only hung out with has beens..Ross and Elizabeth Taylor :P
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Robbo on 04/13/05 at 12:59 am
saver brings up a good point....why do we never see pics of MJ and little girls? Other than his daughter, I don't think I've ever seen him "hanging out" with a young female....only males ???
;D I love how tabloids manipulate people's minds. There are just as many ictures of Mcihael with young girls, as young boys.
I can't see why people are so quick to rush in and say Michael is guilty. The defense haven't presented their case and I can't wait until they do because so many minds will change. Wait til the defense bring forward the many ladies they have you said Michael flirted with them. They were all well over 18 when he flirted with them. One girl can be seen on video with Michael. Michael is seen playing with her bra strap. There's other girls with similiar stories. Some girls testifying dated Michael. Some had sexual relationships with Michael.
Michael doesn't dig little girls, or little boys.
So much is going to change. So much will turn around. Michael will steal our hearts again, he's got so much to offer still. You think Michael was big in the 80's... you aint seen nothin yet!
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Robbo on 04/13/05 at 1:22 am
THEN-IF YOU BELIEVE THE EARLIER BOYS MOTHER- Michael sobbed until she said okay, he can sleep with him...
Hmmm, these stories/recollections are pretty consistent...where are the 'girls' involved oh, I see a pattern and what a lovely pair of pants it makes!
The better to pull down! :-*
It all comes back to him(MJ) now!!!
Ummm... do you know anything about June Chandler's testimony. She's been the least credible witness of them all. June's statements are said out of spite for Michael. As Bob Jones said "familiarity breeds contempt". That is what happened with June. She got too close to MJ and now she has contempt. It is easier to join the bandwagon defaming MJ than walk up, defend him and be called a bad mother who won't even stand up for your son. Remember how Debbie was attacked and she talked about it in Take 2.
June lied about the meeting with MJ and why she gave MJ her phone
She lied about the reason for custody
She lied about the timeline
She lied about why MJ spent almost 30 days at her home
She lied about the Las Vegas incident as she contradicts what Jordy said to a psychiatrist
She never mentioned that she had been to MJ's room in Neverland
She says she regretted trusting MJ when she knows her exhusband used her son to get money.
The prosecution are doing something that I guess works on simple minds. With every witness they are bringing new and shocking accusations. Media don't take any notice of her lies, or the lies of any other witness because of the shock factor.
With each day I grasped a better understanding of what the prosecution are trying to do. They know they've lost. They can't prove a lie. They don't care anymore about convicting Michael, they just want these chock stories out in the public so that when MJ is found not guilty, the public will believe he is guilty and got off because he's a celeb.
They can't seriously be trying to convict Michael in court. They say they are trying to prove that Michael fits into the classic profile of a pedo. June's testimony showed Michael as a complete opposite to the profile of a pedo. What sort of child molester asks the mother if he can sleep with her son before he does it? It defies everything the prosecution has been trying to prove. They no longer want to convict MJ in court, they just want to convict him in the public's eye.
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: AL-B on 04/13/05 at 2:24 am
Not again!!!
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Evil Jessica on 04/13/05 at 2:55 am
^ *snicker*
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Robbo on 04/13/05 at 3:21 am
I give you proof that June Chandler lied. You tell a joke or two.
You've got nothing on Michael. Give up allready.
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: AL-B on 04/13/05 at 3:22 am
;D
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: AL-B on 04/13/05 at 3:23 am
;D
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: AL-B on 04/13/05 at 3:24 am
;D
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: chaka on 04/13/05 at 10:56 am
Put him away:he's guilty >:(
PAEDOPHILES ARE NOT WANTED!!!!!!
>:( >:(
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Robbo on 04/13/05 at 9:24 pm
We've got "nothing"? You're right, because "we" are not involved in the case. You, on the other hand, are so blinded by his celebrity, his "musical genius" that you can't see ANY of his faults. Doesn't it get tiring defending him against us "simple minded folk"? Since, after all, we don't see him as "God" ::)
You are doing what the prosecution are doing. You good at it, you should join the prosecution team.
The prosecution's #1 golden rule is that if you keep saying something over and over again, even if there's nothing to back it up, people will believe it. All I seem to be reading is you people saying fans worship Michael Jackson as a God. There is no fan that treats Michael Jackson like that. Again, it's a misconception and no matter how many times I have stressed that Michael is not a God, you still say it.
I am not blinded by his artistic genius, or his celebrity. I read the damn bloody transcripts. I know what goes on in that courtroom. It's simply unbelievable that people choose not to believe what happens in the courtroom.
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: RockandRollFan on 04/13/05 at 9:38 pm
You are doing what the prosecution are doing. You good at it, you should join the prosecution team.
The prosecution's #1 golden rule is that if you keep saying something over and over again, even if there's nothing to back it up, people will believe it. All I seem to be reading is you people saying fans worship Michael Jackson as a God. There is no fan that treats Michael Jackson like that. Again, it's a misconception and no matter how many times I have stressed that Michael is not a God, you still say it.
I am not blinded by his artistic genius, or his celebrity. I read the darn bloody transcripts. I know what goes on in that courtroom. It's simply unbelievable that people choose not to believe what happens in the courtroom.
No, It's simply unbelievable that people still believe in Flit Boy! And basing your facts on what E! says?! Whether he's found guilty or continues to make this a circus and gets away with his sickness, he WILL answer to a higher power and then he can sing "Beat It" while in some real "Heat" As for the Golden Rule you speak of...It's the "Defense" that has that along with the motto to all Whacko's sick fans..."If you're a little boy and flash your underwear, he WILL come :o
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Robbo on 04/13/05 at 10:48 pm
No, It's simply unbelievable that people still believe in Flit Boy! And basing your facts on what E! says?! Whether he's found guilty or continues to make this a circus and gets away with his sickness, he WILL answer to a higher power and then he can sing "Beat It" while in some real "Heat" As for the Golden Rule you speak of...It's the "Defense" that has that along with the motto to all Whacko's sick fans..."If you're a little boy and flash your underwear, he WILL come :o
I don't base my facts on what E! says. I like the people who report for E! That's all. It' so basic, I just simply read the official court transcripts. That's what I abs my facts on, what actually happens in the courtroom.
It's a fact that the accuser admitted to telling his school teacher that Michael did nothing wrong.
It's a fact that he gave a contradicting testimony.
It's a fact that his brother couldn't possible have seen the bed from where he was standing.
It's a fact that his mother has a long history of making allegations against celebrities and big companies.
It's a fact that she is charged for welfare fraud.
It's a fact that the family went straight to lawyers instead of contacting authorities.
It's a fact that the lawyer they initially contacted was Larry Feldman (the same lawyer who was involved with te 1993/94 case against Michael Jackson).
It's a fact that there was no DNA evidence found at Neverland.
It's a fact that the only porn found at Neverland was adult, heterosexual magazines.
It's a fact that the "past acts" were from 1990-1994 and there's a significant gap between 1994 and 2003; what happened in this time period of 9 years?
It's a fact that out of the five "victims", only one boy is testifying that Michael molested him.
It's a fact that every witness to "past acts" has sold ther story in the past to tabloids.
It's a fact that every witness to "past acts" never contacted authorities and went straight to tabloids and lawyers with their allegations.
It's a fact that every witness to "past acts" has previously sued Michael Jackson because they felt they were unfairly terminated from their job at Neverland.
It's a fact that every witness to "past acts" was actually fired because they stole items from Neverland.
It's a fact that every witness to "past acts" was found guilty of stealing from Neverland.
It's a fact that most witnesses to "past acts" have since filed bankruptcy.
It's a fact that Michael Jackson and June Chandler were having an affair (which states that it's most likely Michael brough June a bracelet to buy her affection rather than her silence).
All this I know because I simply read the official court transcripts.
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: RockandRollFan on 04/13/05 at 10:57 pm
It's ALSO a FACT that after accusations in 1993 he KEPT having young boys sleep with him...he's an idiot!
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Robbo on 04/13/05 at 11:19 pm
It's ALSO a FACT that after accusations in 1993 he KEPT having young boys sleep with him...he's an idiot!
No he didn't. He's never had a young boy sleep with him. All he said was that he shares his bed with children and they go to sleep.
If the fact that after 1993 he had 1 more boy share his bed with him, is all you have, then the prosecution's case really is a joke and I can't see the reason why anyone would think he's guilty. There has only been one boy come forward since 1993. One. Considering his motive and his family background, I see no reason why this one boy can be the reason why people think Michael Jackson is a peadophile. If everyone who ever had someone accuse them of sexual abbuse, was automatically a peadophile in then public's veiw, then they might as well throw the justice system out the window. If all it takes for someone to be a peadophile, is for someone else to accuse them, then why bother giving that person a trail?
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: RockandRollFan on 04/13/05 at 11:29 pm
No he didn't. He's never had a young boy sleep with him. All he said was that he shares his bed with children and they go to sleep.
STILL WHACKO :D
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Robbo on 04/13/05 at 11:33 pm
STILL WHACKO :D
Whacko.... but not guilty.
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: RockandRollFan on 04/13/05 at 11:39 pm
Whacko.... but not guilty.
Too bad it's not illegal to have young boys sleep in the same bed with you, dangle your own child over a balcony and be an egotistical jerk...but he will "Burn" in the afterlife ;)
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Robbo on 04/14/05 at 1:13 am
Too bad it's not illegal to have young boys sleep in the same bed with you, dangle your own child over a balcony and be an egotistical jerk...but he will "Burn" in the afterlife ;)
Strong words. I guess maybe you're abit jealous. I think you mentioned being a Beatles fan. So you hatred for Michael Jackson obviously steems from that.
Michael Jackson is in the record books for the person who's contributed the most money to the most charities. Michael Jackson brings joy to people's lives. His music makes people feel good about themselves. His charitable work is unmeasured by any other person. He's made some mistakes in his life, but all what he does is pure and innocent. There's nothing wrong with sharing your bed, it's part of the African culture and it's something Michael Jackson grew up on. He learnt from an early age that sharing your bed is the most loving thing to do. He's not going to burn in hell. That's a cruel, racist and inhuman thing to say. If Michael's going to hell then where's Tom Sneddon, Larry Feldman, Janet Jackson, Diane Dimond, Nancy Grace, Jay Leno, Will Anderson, and numerous other people who've devoted their lives to destroying Michael Jackson, going?
I'm sure God did not want us to spend our lives trying to ruin the life of another person. Expecially someone so loving, caring and talented as Michael Jackson.
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Kareoke Queen on 04/14/05 at 2:10 pm
;D
They guy is a total loser man. I would love to see him go to jail.
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Philip Eno on 04/14/05 at 2:15 pm
They guy is a total loser man. I would love to see him go to jail.
He has not lost yet, Mr Michael Jackson is still innocent until proven guilty.
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Kareoke Queen on 04/14/05 at 2:21 pm
He has not lost yet, Mr Michael Jackson is still innocent until proven guilty.
Get outta here! Man this guy is a total loser. How can he be innocent after he admitted to playing with Macaulay Culkin?
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Philip Eno on 04/14/05 at 2:22 pm
Get outta here! Man this guy is a total loser. How can he be innocent after he admitted to playing with Macaulay Culkin?
In the eyes of the law he is still innocent, until the convicted. I would start reading law books if I was you.
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Mr Tumnus on 04/14/05 at 2:23 pm
Did he actually ADMIT to that????
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Philip Eno on 04/14/05 at 2:25 pm
Get outta here! Man this guy is a total loser. How can he be innocent after he admitted to playing with Macaulay Culkin?
When did he admit to this?
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Mr Tumnus on 04/14/05 at 2:27 pm
Karaoke Queen I would check your facts first,
he hasn't admitted to that at all.
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Kareoke Queen on 04/14/05 at 2:30 pm
Karaoke Queen I would check your facts first,
he hasn't admitted to that at all.
Well maybe not but the court says he did and i'm behind that judge 100%.
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Philip Eno on 04/14/05 at 2:31 pm
Well maybe not but the court says he did and i'm behind that judge 100%.
If you are 100% sure on this admittance, when did MJ state this account?
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: RockandRollFan on 04/14/05 at 2:31 pm
Strong words. I guess maybe you're abit jealous. I think you mentioned being a Beatles fan. So you hatred for Michael Jackson obviously steems from that.
Michael Jackson is in the record books for the person who's contributed the most money to the most charities. Michael Jackson brings joy to people's lives. His music makes people feel good about themselves. His charitable work is unmeasured by any other person. He's made some mistakes in his life, but all what he does is pure and innocent. There's nothing wrong with sharing your bed, it's part of the African culture and it's something Michael Jackson grew up on. He learnt from an early age that sharing your bed is the most loving thing to do. He's not going to burn in hell. That's a cruel, racist and inhuman thing to say. If Michael's going to hell then where's Tom Sneddon, Larry Feldman, Janet Jackson, Diane Dimond, Nancy Grace, Jay Leno, Will Anderson, and numerous other people who've devoted their lives to destroying Michael Jackson, going?
I'm sure God did not want us to spend our lives trying to ruin the life of another person. Expecially someone so loving, caring and talented as Michael Jackson.
;DYeah right, Jealous of him....NOT!! And please, Lose the racism...No what's cruel and inhumane is to molest little boys from a person in a position of trust. Maybe he can finally be decent enough to pay for all those boys therapy. I'm not jealous of a person who thinks money and power are the most important thing. Thankfully when he dies he can't take it with him. Being a Beatles fan has nothing to do with how I feel towards an overated has been who can't find some way to put on a pair of pants for court. He disrespects people and thinks he's above the law. If it weren't for him molesting kids, believe me, any comments or thoughts I have of him would be a total waste of time and energy. I'm against child molesters, not blacks or any other race, so knock of the whining about racism, it's been done to death
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Robbo on 04/15/05 at 4:40 am
Well maybe not but the court says he did and i'm behind that judge 100%.
The judge never said such a thing. What BS are you on about?
Everyone who says Michael Jackson is guilty have no idea of the facts, they don't read the papers, they don't listen to what any legal experts have to say, the don't read the court transcripts, the don't know a darn thing.
People keep bringing up that the media says the evidence point to him being guilty, and all this. Last time I checked, people in the media were proclaiming his innocence and saying what complete BS'ers the witnesses are.
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Robbo on 04/15/05 at 8:41 am
Wait ??? If we don't "read the papers...listen to what any legal experts have to say", how can we keep bringing up what the media says? And, for the record, the ONLY "media" I have heard "proclaim his innocence & say what complete BS'ers the witnesses are" is E! I suggest you watch CourtTv or CNN or a REAL media outlet, not one who's programming basis is "Entertainment" (that's what the "E" stands for):P
Even Diane Dimond, from CourtTV, has admitted that the witnesses are uncredible and the prosecutions case is not looking good. She even once stated that she is starting to believe that Michael Jackson is innocent afterall. If you understood the prosecution/dimond connection, who'd understand why I don't believe CourtTV is a credible source.
I will say it for the last time, I do not get my info from E! ... I attend court on my day's off, and when I'm working, I know someone who did attend court and they tell me what happened in there. Even when that happens I still download and read the transcripts. That's where I get my info.
You have to admit, Michael Jackson and the defense are winning this case, at the moment. You have to admit it right? I'm not saying, admit he's innocent - admit the prosecution is failing miserably and the defense are kcikin @$$, because that's what I here when I turn on my TV. That what I'm seeing when I read the transcripts. That's what I see when I go to court.
The defense are winning, and they start their case next week!!! :)
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: RockandRollFan on 04/15/05 at 6:11 pm
Hey, you've said a number of times "E! says blah blah blah" so don't blame US for thinking you get your info from E!
I don't have to admit anything. Just as you would never admit he did anything even if he was FOUND guilty. Not that I think that will happen because he's MJ. If OJ got away with murder, surely he can get away (again) with a little case of child molestation. It's a catch-22, if he's convicted, people will say that he was set up and if he's not convicted, people will say he got off simply because he's Michael Jackson. At this point, I just wish the ENTIRE trial would go away because I'm sick of hearing about it. It's brought up quite a few bad memories that I don't care to rehash, and reading the transcript of the boys' testimonies literally made me vomit. If you had ever been molested, you'd realize how truthful they were being and how sick it was of Mesereau to treat them like THEY were the criminals.
Maybe he soesn't know the meaning of the word "Molestation"...I mean, if sleeping with children is so loving then who's anyone in the Jackson camp to say that molestation is just a form of expression for love ::)
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: NullandVoid on 04/15/05 at 6:38 pm
Umm...Robbo what African culture are you talking about when you said that "It's part of African culture, sharing a bed is the most loving thing to do"?
I know that most Black parents(or parents period) WOULD NOT let their children sleep in the bed with some grown man.
What's so loving about sharing a bed anyways? you fight for covers and space. Sometimes the person next you might lay a hot one under the blanket. I think sharing food is more loving than sharing a bed. You can go through life without a bed, but food forget it,
that's my 2 cents
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Robbo on 04/15/05 at 7:08 pm
how sick it was of Mesereau to treat them like THEY were the criminals.
Last time I checked, perjury is a crime. So is drinking under the age of 18, breaking and entering etc.
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Robbo on 04/15/05 at 10:45 pm
http://au.news.yahoo.com/050415/19/tzqn.html
Saturday April 16, 08:57 AM
Jackson lawyer shreds accuser's mom's credibility in fiery showdown
Click to enlarge photo
SANTA MARIA, United States (AFP) - Michael Jackson's lawyer savaged the credibility of his child sex accuser's mother, making her admit she lied under oath and suggesting she wanted to cash in on the star's wealth.
In one of the most explosive showdowns of the seven-week-old trial, attorney Thomas Mesereau launched an intense attack on the 37-year-old woman he has branded a rapacious money-grubber and "professional plaintiff."
In a grilling so fiery that trial Judge Rodney Melville warned the lawyer and witness to tone down their rhetoric, Mesereau accused the woman of acting and suggested that her claims against Jackson were "in her mind."
In his bid to undermine claims that Jackson and his aides kidnapped her family and implicitly threatened their lives, Mesereau forced her to concede she lied in a deposition she made when suing a department store in 2000.
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"You lied under oath to increase the amount of money you could get ... correct?," Mesereau asked, referring to her claim she was sexually assaulted when she and her children were detained on suspicion of shoplifting.
The woman had claimed she was never abused by her now ex-husband, who she later reported to authorities for beating her and abusing their three children.
"How many lies do you think you told in the JCPenney case?" Mesereau asked. In evasive responses, she reluctantly conceded she lied about anything to do with her then husband until his subsequent arrest.
Jackson's team claims the woman is a con artist with a history of coaching her children to lie under oath to win financial settlements, including the 152,000 dollars they won from the JCPenney store.
The pop icon, 46, is accused of molesting the woman's son, then 13, plying him with alcohol and conspiring to kidnap him and his family and hold them prisoner at his Neverland Ranch and a Los Angeles-area hotel two years ago.
Legal analysts said Mesereau, who listened quietly to the testimony of the crucial prosecution witness for two days, seriously damaged her credibility.
"The more she talks, the worse its gets for the prosecution," said trial watcher Michael Cardoza. "She won't answer the simplest of questions," he said. "If this was a heavyweight fight, it would be stopped right now."
Mesereau suggested the defiant witness's stories of kidnapping were a tissue of lies and that she was in fact living in the lap of luxury as Jackson's guest at Neverland.
"How many times, in your mind, did you escape from that dungeon, Neverland?" Mesereau persisted, getting the woman to admit that she had left and returned three times during her alleged captivity.
"You didn't escape from Neverland at all, did you," he asked provocatively. "Oh yes I did," she retorted.
In a surprise revelation, she also conceded she was once investigated for allegedly abusing her own child -- the alleged victim in the case.
The witness gave as good as she got in her extremely testy sparring match against former boxer Mesereau, prompting the judge to warn he would cut the hearing short if the pair did not behave.
She pointedly corrected Mesereau, turning directly to jurors to say: "His statement is inaccurate."
She also hit back at suggestions that she made charges against the faded "King of Pop" to set the scene for a lucrative civil lawsuit. "We'll never file a claim against Mr Jackson," she said. "I want justice here."
But she admitted under questioning that she had recently been in touch with the lawyer that brokered a settlement worth more than 20 million dollars for a boy who accused Jackson of abuse in 1993.
The war of words came a day after the woman wrapped up a complex and disjointed account of how Jackson aides allegedly used fear and intimidation to keep her family prisoner for three weeks in February and March 2003.
Prosecutors claim the panicked singer and his aides hatched the plot after the airing of a television documentary in which Jackson he held his future accuser's hand and admitted sharing his bed with children.
The woman claimed her family was then coerced into making a "rebuttal video" in which they described Jackson as a beloved father figure.
She said she did not want to make the video, which was played for jurors Friday, and claimed everything in it -- even the laughter -- was scripted: "I am a poor actress." But Mesereau shot back: "You are a good actress."
When Mesereau asked how it took to memorise her lines or how long the script was, she could not answer.
Analyst Cardoza said the entire case, including the molestation charges, could hinge on whether the jury believes the woman and her son.
"If they believe the mother put the son up to it, then this case is over," he said.
Jackson has pleaded innocent to 10 charges that could see him jailed for up to 20 years if convicted.
----------------------------------------------------
;D Didn't I tell ya the mother's testimony was gonna be a crack-up! She's something different.
This has definately been the best day for the defense. It's only a matter of days now, until the defense start their case. It's such a bonus that their allready ahead. They've got nothing to worry about now. It's smooth sailing until the verdict day.
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Robbo on 04/17/05 at 12:38 am
More good news for the defense. I can just about smell victory! :)
-------------------------------------------------
http://au.news.yahoo.com/050417/19/u029.html
Sunday April 17, 03:02 PM
Jackson's defense in dramatic recovery as key witness crumbles
Click to enlarge photo
SANTA MARIA, United States (AFP) - Michael Jackson's lawyers are poised to deal more punishing blows to his child sex accuser's mom, in a dramatic recovery after three rough weeks for the "King of Pop."
The trial has entered a make-or-break phase as jurors size up the woman at the heart of allegations that have the pop star fighting for his freedom.
Court watchers say lead defense lawyer Thomas Mesereau has already badly damaged the witness, and there's more to come when cross-examination continues Monday.
"He will keep her on the stand. He will wear her out. This is going to be like a heavyweight fight," attorney Michael Cardoza said of Mesereau, a former boxer.
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The pop icon, 46, is accused of molesting the woman's son, then 13, plying him with alcohol and conspiring to kidnap him and his family and hold them prisoner at his Neverland Ranch and a Los Angeles-area hotel two years ago.
But Mesereau exposed gaping holes in the woman's story in a fiery showdown Friday, and got her to admit that she lied in another lawsuit.
"You lied under oath to increase the amount of money you could get ... correct?" Mesereau asked, after forcing her to concede she lied in a deposition she made when suing a department store in 2000.
Jackson's team claims the woman is a con artist with a history of coaching her children to lie under oath to win financial settlements, including the 152,000 dollars they won from the JCPenney department store.
Mesereau suggested the defiant witness's stories of kidnapping were a tissue of lies and that she was in fact living in the lap of luxury as Jackson's guest at Neverland.
"How many times, in your mind, did you escape from that dungeon, Neverland?" Mesereau persisted, getting the woman to admit that she had left three times during her alleged captivity.
"You didn't escape from Neverland at all, did you," he asked.
"Oh yes I did," she retorted.
The 37-year-old mother of four was combative and evasive, earning reprimands from trial Judge Rodney Melville who also scolded the defense attorney and at one point threatened to shut down the trial if the two did not behave.
The war of words came a day after the woman wrapped up an extraordinary account of how Jackson aides allegedly used fear and intimidation to keep her family prisoner for three weeks in February and March 2003.
Prosecutors claim the panicked singer and his aides hatched the plot after the airing of a television documentary in which Jackson held his future accuser's hand and admitted sharing his bed with children.
The woman claimed her family was coerced into making a "rebuttal video" in which the woman and her children praise Jackson as a beloved father figure.
She insisted Friday that almost everything in the 20-minute video was scripted "word for word." But when Mesereau asked how long it took to memorise her lines, she could not answer.
"I think the prosecution's case for conspiracy is in severe jeopardy. I don't think she can be rehabilitated," trial watcher Jim Moret said.
Her testimony could endanger the rest of the 10-count case against Jackson, if jurors believe she coached her children to lie.
"If they believe the mother put the son up to it, then this case is over," Cardoza said.
The prosecution meltdown came after jurors heard several days of graphic testimony about Jackson's alleged molestation of five boys in the early 1990s.
Melville ruled late last month that prosecutors could air the accusations, which have never been proven, in their bid to show that the star has a pattern of preying on boys.
The prior cases wrapped up Monday when jurors heard from the mother of a boy allegedly abused by Jackson in 1993, who told how her son spent numerous nights with Jackson after the sobbing pop icon begged her to allow her the 13-year-old to sleep in his bed.
The family won a 20-million-dollar out-of-court settlement from Jackson in 1994 that averted criminal charges against him and bound the family to silence.
Jurors earlier heard from a 23-year-old man who wept as he told jurors Jackson groped him three times between the ages of seven and 10.
The man won an out-of-court settlement reportedly worth two million dollars from the singer in 1994.
Jackson's lawyer's tore at the credibility of former Neverland employees who said they had seen Jackson fondle and kiss young boys, getting them to admit they sold stories about the superstar or lost lawsuits against him.
But the prior cases painted "a very damaging portrait" of Jackson as someone who likes to spend time with young boys, travel with them, shower with them and have them sit on his lap, according to Moret.
Jackson has pleaded innocent to all 10 charges that could see him locked up for 20 years if convicted.
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Red Ant on 04/17/05 at 9:57 pm
Judge: " Has the jury reached it's verdict? "
Foreperson: " Yes your Honor, we have "
Judge: " What say you? "
Foreperson: " We the jury have deliberated for 46 minutes and have come the the unanimous conclusion that the accused, Michael Jackson, is guilty of being a freak. His musical contributions to the world cannot outweigh that he looks like a tran$vestite in bad make-up. Sleeping with boys 30 years younger than you regardless of whether or not any impropiety took place is wrong. However, we find Mr. Jackson incapable of forming intent to commit any wrong doings as his brain is as messed up as his face is. We hereby sentence him to cryogenic stasis until a time comes when we can revert this pervert back to some semblance of NAMBLAcy, oops, that should have read normalcy. We further order that Mr. Jackson shall pay for this stasis by selling the rights of The Beatles songs back to Paul McCartney so they cannot be mutilated or use in NIke commercials. "
Judge: " I understand your verdict ladies and gentleman. However, Mr. Jackson is a celebrity and has money. I am over-ruling the jury verdict and declaring Mr. Jackson a free man. The charges against Mr. Jackson are summarily dropped. "
Michael: He-he
Okay, now that I've wasted nearly 10 minutes typing out one of nearly infinite outcomes, who really cares about the verdict? Everyone will still have their opinions on him as they do O.J. regardless of the verdict.
Note: I do not know much about this case ( obviously ), and MJ has done many great things in his life. He also has screwed up alot. And he does look like a freak ( I think that is a universal opinion ).
The legal system when it comes to celebrities is a huge joke.
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Robbo on 04/18/05 at 1:41 am
Has anyone else found the timing of Johnny Chocran's death kinda freaky?
He was one of Michael's attorney's in 1993, and he "died" just as the 1993 allegations were being brought into this current case. Kinda weird. ???
Also, just before his death he was investigating Sony. That right, Sony.
Now don't tell me that after reading the above sentence, the thought never crossed your mind that maybe Sony somehow aided the death of Johnny Chocran.
To me, it's just to bizarre to let the thought just drift through one ear and out the other. It's stuck in my head. I think Sony killed Johnny Chocran.
Ofcourse, there's no evidence or facts supporting my claims... but there's no evidence or facts that say Michael Jackson's guilty of child molesting, but people still believe that. So I am well within my right to say "SONY KILLED JOHNNY CHOCRAN!"
I dearly hope that anything Mr. Chocran found during his investigations of Sony, is passed onto someone in Michael Jackson's legal team. This whole Sony conspiracy is just too big to ignore.
This ish is gonna go down in court. T Mez is really gonna get stuck into the Sony conspiracy, and I hope he knows something of Johnny Chocran's invetigations.
I know Johnny Chocran planned to testify for the defense about his investigations, and I know Sony would've done anything to stop him from testifying. There's nothing backing it up, but I believe, Sony killed Johnny Chocran. If that is the case, the lives of Michael Jackson, Tom Mesereau, Robert Sanger, Brain Oxman and any other people that may know something about the Sony conspiracy, may be in danger and I think this Sony mob need to be stopped!
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Dagwood on 04/18/05 at 8:11 pm
Sounds like someone's been sipping too much Jesus Juice ::)
It sure does.
Dude, Cochran had brain cancer. No mysterious circumstances. Cancer kills every day. Stop looking for conspiracies where there are none.
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: RockandRollFan on 04/18/05 at 8:19 pm
Has anyone else found the timing of Johnny Chocran's death kinda freaky?
He was one of Michael's attorney's in 1993, and he "died" just as the 1993 allegations were being brought into this current case. Kinda weird. ???
Also, just before his death he was investigating Sony. That right, Sony.
Now don't tell me that after reading the above sentence, the thought never crossed your mind that maybe Sony somehow aided the death of Johnny Chocran.
To me, it's just to bizarre to let the thought just drift through one ear and out the other. It's stuck in my head. I think Sony killed Johnny Chocran.
Ofcourse, there's no evidence or facts supporting my claims... but there's no evidence or facts that say Michael Jackson's guilty of child molesting, but people still believe that. So I am well within my right to say "SONY KILLED JOHNNY CHOCRAN!"
I dearly hope that anything Mr. Chocran found during his investigations of Sony, is passed onto someone in Michael Jackson's legal team. This whole Sony conspiracy is just too big to ignore.
This ish is gonna go down in court. T Mez is really gonna get stuck into the Sony conspiracy, and I hope he knows something of Johnny Chocran's invetigations.
I know Johnny Chocran planned to testify for the defense about his investigations, and I know Sony would've done anything to stop him from testifying. There's nothing backing it up, but I believe, Sony killed Johnny Chocran. If that is the case, the lives of Michael Jackson, Tom Mesereau, Robert Sanger, Brain Oxman and any other people that may know something about the Sony conspiracy, may be in danger and I think this Sony mob need to be stopped!
I think even Johnnie Cochrans living relatives would tell you to...calm down...there's plenty of places in the world with a nice soft rubber room for ya :D
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Robbo on 04/19/05 at 1:05 am
It sure does.
Dude, Cochran had brain cancer. No mysterious circumstances. Cancer kills every day. Stop looking for conspiracies where there are none.
Everything you say makes me believe more and more that Sony killed Johnny Chocran.
You say he died of cancer.
Who said that? The news papers.
What news station was first to report his death and to report his "cause of death"? NBC. (This is dead true)
Who owns NBC? The same guy who owns Sony!
C'mon. You can't seriously tell me this crap doesn't freak you out even a little bit?
Sony is linked to NBC.
NBC is linked to Diane Dimond.
Diane Dimond is linked to Tom Sneddon.
Tom Sneddon is the lead attorney for the prosecution of Michael Jackson.
Michael Jackson was a recording artist signed with Sony. He also owns 50% of Sony ATV.
This case leads back to Sony. That fact is undeniable. What the question is, is Sony conspiring against Michael Jackson and using their connection with NBC, Dimond, Sneddon, as aids?
Other facts that seem to lead to the answer of that question are...
Martin Bashir's brother worked for Sony.
The key player's in the conspiracy charges against Michael, worked for Sony.
Johnny Chocran "died" at the same time he was investigating Sony.
The first major tabloids story against Michael Jackson started just after he brough the Beatles catalogue, a catalogue Sony wanted their hands on.
Michael's publishing company, ATV (which owned The Beatles and Elvis Presley's music aswell as his own music), merged with Sony's publishing company to form Sony ATV. Michael gained 50% ownership. Not long at all, after this business deal happened, Michael was accused of child molestation (1993).
The first reports of Michael Jackson being bankrupt, came just after he gained further ownership of the Sony ATV catalogue. In 2003.
Pellicano, an investigator that had been looking into the Sony conspiracy, was jailed on the day before police raided Neverland, and arrested Michael Jackson for child molestation in 2003.
There's just too much of this Sony conspiracy crap going on, that it's impossible to ignore. You can't ignore it. I'd hate to think what Sony are plotting next. If they don't go to jail, I'd hate to think what will happen.
We all ready know, and Michael all ready knows, that Sony want him dead, and they are all ready planning his death to make it look like a suicide.
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Todd Pettingzoo on 04/19/05 at 3:56 am
I think Robbo is just being funny. You know, satire?
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: RockandRollFan on 04/19/05 at 11:53 am
Next he'll be telling us how Michael "Aquired" the rights to the Buddy Holly catalog...from Buddy himself! :D
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Dagwood on 04/19/05 at 3:47 pm
Everything you say makes me believe more and more that Sony killed Johnny Chocran.
Ok, you're right. Sony shot special cancer rays into his head to stop him from investigating them. ::)
C'mon. You can't seriously tell me this crap doesn't freak you out even a little bit?
Um, yes I can. Not freaked out in the slightest.
We all ready know, and Michael all ready knows, that Sony want him dead, and they are all ready planning his death to make it look like a suicide.
Oooookay.
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Robbo on 04/19/05 at 5:04 pm
As I said before, my belief of the Sony conspiracy is based on no fact at all. I am trying to prove that thinking Michael Jackson is a peadophile is like thinking Sony killed Johnny Cochran.
Anyway, I've had my rant about Sony and I've put forward a conspiracy theory that may or may not be true. Now lets gets back to the trial.
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Mushroom on 04/19/05 at 5:24 pm
More good news for the defense. I can just about smell victory! :)
Yea, but to bad that victory does not equal justice.  Look at Robert Blake and OJ.
There have been people talking about this kind of behavior from MJ since the 1980's.  In the past though, he had enough money so he was able to buy his way out of trouble, kinda like the Catholic Church and the sex scandals.  It was only when local archdioces started to go broke paying the victums off that it finally came to light.
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: RockandRollFan on 04/19/05 at 5:29 pm
As I said before, my belief of the Sony conspiracy is based on no fact at all. I am trying to prove that thinking Michael Jackson is a peadophile is like thinking Sony killed Johnny Cochran.
Anyway, I've had my rant about Sony and I've put forward a conspiracy theory that may or may not be true. Now lets gets back to the trial.
I've just aquired some beachfront property in the Arizona Desert...and YOU are the perfect person for me to sell it to. There's even been a "Big Foot" sighting there :D
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: RockandRollFan on 04/19/05 at 7:13 pm
Hey, is that the one with the BIG golden bridge? :D
You mean YOU seen it too :D Seriously, if believing that crap about Cochran is kinda like saying OJ was innocent ::)
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Robbo on 04/19/05 at 8:10 pm
No, it's not even close.  How many people (other than you) have accused Sony of this?  Probably only some of the others on your "forum".  How many people have accused MJ of molesting little boys?  Quite a few.  Oh, but that's right, they're ALL lying ::)
I may be one of the few that have wondered about the bizarre timing of Cochran's death, but I'm not the only person who think (or knows ;) Sony is up to something.
Johnny Cochran would not have been investigating the Sony conspiracy if there was nothing to back it up with. You don't just jump into an investigation without there being even a slight supicion that Sony may be up to something.
Back to the Jackson trial.
I have heard that Janet Jackson (the accuser's mother) is the pro's last witness. Which means the defense will definately be underway by next week. I think they'll probably start next Monday.
Although, some media are reporting that another witness has come forward for the prosecution. But there's been nothing said in court about it.
I think the defense's case will nearly double the time the prosecution's case took. T Mez is going to destroy the allready damaged credibility of every witness the prosecution has put forward. He's going to spend atleast a day on each witness, presenting evidence and witnesses that will clearly show that every pro witness was paid to say things about Michael, was bullied into it by the DA, and there is even tapes that show DA's and members of the media threatening the lives of these people, unless they testify in court that they saw Michael molest a boy.
Mez also has a number of women that have dated/slept with Michael. He has a large number of children that have stayed at Neverland and are now adults, who can testify that they were never molested by Michael, nor have they seen Michael molest or even think about molesting someone else. They are not all boy's either, there will be just as many girls testify as there are boys.
T Mez also has seized evidence from Tom Sneddon's office. What he took as evidence were plans Sneddon had drew up to turn Michael's Neverland estate into a winery. He had the budget, the maps, and everything ready to go and his intentions were to turn Neverland into a winery, and to that he needed Michael out of the joint.
I cannot wait for the defense's case. It's gonna be one hell of a show.
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Robbo on 04/19/05 at 8:22 pm
You know, something struck me today when I was reading the paper and there just happened to be an article about the trial (I know, people, it's hard to believe, but honest, I swear, there WAS ;))  MJ supposedly paid off the 1993 accuser to avoid going to trial.....how many other people has he "paid off"?  He's already paid off "victims", why would it be such a stretch to think he has paid off HIS witnesses to say they saw nothing inappropriate?  How many of them would be so afraid of losing their jobs and falling off the MJ bandwagon that they would be willing to tell the truth?  After all, the former employees are "lying" because he fired them, it makes perfect sense that the current employees would be afraid of being fired as well ???
Okay. Good point.
For the next few minutes you are the biggest selling pop artist in the world. You've just released a new album, it's hit #1 and sold over 20 million copies allready, you've released a string of #1 singles from the album and you're right in the middle of touring the world. Then the son, of a woman you had an affair with for a shot period of time, accuses you of molesting him. You are now faced with a civil trial and you know that even if you are found not guilty, you're image will be still be tarnished and you'll never enjoy the same success as you have with your last 4 albums.
The father of the boy, comes to you, and asks for $35, 000, 000 so he can make a movie (the movie later becme, Robin Hood - Men In Tights). If you pay him, he says he will drop the charges and you wont be faced with public humliation (at this time, the papers don't know about it yet).
You hire a lawyer, and he advises you not to pay him. He says your fame is at such a high level that this civil case wont do you any harm. He thinks that allegations wont even go to papers, because they are so minor.
He was wrong. The allegations did go to papers and it was the biggest thing since John Lennon got shot in 1980.
You consult your lawyer and he says you have the option of reaching some sort of financial settlement to avoid this thing going to court.
What do you do?
Do you reach a financial settlement with the family to avoid this situation getting any bigger?You've got a tour to finish, you've got a record to promote, and this is not helping at all. Do you want it to end right now?
So, what do you do?
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: whitewolf on 04/19/05 at 9:10 pm
I may be one of the few that have wondered about the bizarre timing of Cochran's death, but I'm not the only person who think (or knows ;) Sony is up to something.
Johnny Cochran would not have been investigating the Sony conspiracy if there was nothing to back it up with. You don't just jump into an investigation without there being even a slight supicion that Sony may be up to something.
Back to the Jackson trial.
I have heard that Janet Jackson (the accuser's mother) is the pro's last witness. Which means the defense will definately be underway by next week. I think they'll probably start next Monday.
If you know anything about MJ you would know that Janet Jackson is not the accuser's mother but MJ's sister.
all of your stories are getting more and more scary, you know that. I am getting worried that you may not know the difference between reality and weird fantasies.
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: RockandRollFan on 04/19/05 at 10:02 pm
So the African culture is not important enough to give a rats about?
Well...here in America they have laws against that ;)
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Robbo on 04/19/05 at 11:01 pm
If you know anything about MJ you would know that Janet Jackson is not the accuser's mother but MJ's sister.
all of your stories are getting more and more scary, you know that. I am getting worried that you may not know the difference between reality and weird fantasies.
Yes. Actually the accuser's mother's name is Janet Jackson, as bizarre as it sounds.
Her maiden name was Janet Arviso, but in 2004 she married her boyfriend, Jay Jackson (no relation to Michael or his family) and is now Janet Jackson.
When she took the stand, the common procedure is that the court askes you to stand and spell your name. She said her name was Janet Jackson, but the court asked if she refer to herself as Janet Arviso, as it gets confusing (because Michael's sisters name is also Janet Jackson).
Please don't start personally insulting me. I feel that there's just as much evidence saying Sony killed johnny Cochran, as there is Michael Jackson molesting Gavin Arviso. I was making a point, there was a hint of sarcasim, that obviously you don't get!
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: RockandRollFan on 04/19/05 at 11:15 pm
:D ;D ;D Now THAT'S entertainment! It's views like yours that make me actually consider that "Pro" Wrestling is "Real" ;)
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Robbo on 04/20/05 at 4:41 am
Well...here in America they have laws against that ;)
You have laws against sharing your bed?
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: RockandRollFan on 04/20/05 at 10:37 am
You have laws against sharing your bed?
"Morally"...with young boys...absolutely. So, you think OJ was "Framed" as well?
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: RockandRollFan on 04/20/05 at 10:51 am
If I'm truly innocent, I don't care HOW famous I am or WHAT I've got to finish. If someone falsely accuses me of molesting children (which I have spent my life "helping"), I fight it. I don't care if it takes my last $$, paying someone off to "end it" makes me look guilty. If I fight it and am found "not guilty", it harms my career a hell of a lot less than "paying someone off". I don't care what the charges are, if someone accuses me of something I didn't do, I'll fight it until the day I die. ***also, see my comment in bold print that I added in the above quote*** BS. There's no way these tapes exist. That's witness tampering and is a punishable offense. There's no court in this country that wouldn't prosecute. So, MOST child molesters also participate in sexual acts with members of the opposite sex. Doesn't mean jack squat. They know what Mikey was thinking? Not to mention that THIS also means jack squat. MOST child molesters do not molest every child they come into contact with.Hey, we actually agree on something....it's gonna be one hell of a show....a freak show ::)
I can't WAIT to hear what he has to say abouth that, Kim! BTW, I totally agree...if I'm falsely accused of molesting a child and I'm innocent, I fight it! Maybe "Flit Boy" is worried about going broke...oh wait...he's only "Morally" bankrupt :)
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: Robbo on 04/21/05 at 12:51 am
If I'm truly innocent, I don't care HOW famous I am or WHAT I've got to finish. If someone falsely accuses me of molesting children (which I have spent my life "helping"), I fight it. I don't care if it takes my last $$, paying someone off to "end it" makes me look guilty. If I fight it and am found "not guilty", it harms my career a hell of a lot less than "paying someone off". I don't care what the charges are, if someone accuses me of something I didn't do, I'll fight it until the day I die. ***also, see my comment in bold print that I added in the above quote***
First, do your homework. Everyone knows Evan Chandler (the father of Michael's 93 accuser/liar), asked Michael for money to make Robin Hood\Men In Tights. He publicly stated it, he has never denied it.
Second, you are not getting my question. You want this over as quickly as possible. You've got a tour to finish, and album to promote. If you had the money, and the option to end thsi thing NOW, dont' tell me you wouldn't take it.
Everyone would get scared, regardless of whether or not they're guilty. Everyone gets scared if they know they might get convicted. In every case there is a 50/50 chance of a conviction. Don't tell me you wouldn't be scared if suddenly you were faced with that.
If it were me. I was not guilty, I had enough money, and I had the option of ending this thing NOW, I'd take it by all means. But, if ten years later, I was faced with the same false allegations, I'd have to fight them. If it happened again, I'd probably be convinced that it'll happen again, and again if I don't fight it now.
With all that aside, it was yet another great day in the courtroom for the defense. I think it's safe to say the defense blew the kidnapping charges out the water.
That's the kidnapping charges gone.
The molestation charges still loom in the air, but are just hanging on by a thread. If the defense can convicne the jury that the mother put these ideas into the kids head, the molestation charges are as good as gone.
The conpiracy charges, pfft. Sneddon doesn't dare to touch them. He hasn't addressed those charges properly yet, I don't think he will because he fears if he brings up the conspiracy charges, Mex will bring up the Sony conspiracy. So all I have to say about the conspiracy charges is pfft.
BS. There's no way these tapes exist. That's witness tampering and is a punishable offense. There's no court in this country that wouldn't prosecute. So, MOST child molesters also participate in sexual acts with members of the opposite sex. Doesn't mean jack squat.  They know what Mikey was thinking? Not to mention that THIS also means jack squat. MOST child molesters do not molest every child they come into contact with.Hey, we actually agree on something....it's gonna be one hell of a show....a freak show ::)
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: whitewolf on 04/21/05 at 5:54 am
First, do your homework. Everyone knows Evan Chandler (the father of Michael's 93 accuser/liar), asked Michael for money to make Robin Hood\Men In Tights. He publicly stated it, he has never denied it.
Second, you are not getting my question. You want this over as quickly as possible. You've got a tour to finish, and album to promote. If you had the money, and the option to end thsi thing NOW, dont' tell me you wouldn't take it.
Everyone would get scared, regardless of whether or not they're guilty. Everyone gets scared if they know they might get convicted. In every case there is a 50/50 chance of a conviction. Don't tell me you wouldn't be scared if suddenly you were faced with that.
If it were me. I was not guilty, I had enough money, and I had the option of ending this thing NOW, I'd take it by all means. But, if ten years later, I was faced with the same false allegations, I'd have to fight them. If it happened again, I'd probably be convinced that it'll happen again, and again if I don't fight it now.
you seem to forget, or delibritly falied to mention that he made two payoffs before, the only reason he is "fighting" it now is because the law changed and any molestation allegations are automatically dealt with by the police and the person is automatically charged.
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: whitewolf on 04/21/05 at 1:14 pm
Here is a great little parody. Follow the link, I'm sure some of you will like it.
http://www.flowgo.com/funpages/view.cfm/10562
Subject: Re: Michael Jackson - guilty or not?
Written By: RockandRollFan on 04/21/05 at 1:22 pm
Here is a great little parody. Follow the link, I'm sure some of you will like it.
http://www.flowgo.com/funpages/view.cfm/10562
http://community.the-underdogs.org/smiley/happy/yelrotflmao.gif
I'm sure the "Blind" followers won't be amused ;)