http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/10/24/us-florida-welfare-idUSTRE79N79C20111024

The ruling is seriously flawed.  The requirement to be drug tested is prevalant throughout society and by rule of Federal and State laws.  At my company, every candidate to be a truck driver is REQUIRED BY LAW to get an initial drug test, and is REQUIRED BY LAW to be subject to random-drawing testing as well.  Heck, I am an executive and even I had to get tested.

My guess is this case will end up before the SCOTUS to get the final word.

The requirement to be drug tested is prevalant throughout society and by rule of Federal and State laws. 
it is but it shouldn't be. unless you're getting high ON THE JOB, it's not your employer's business. and it's not big government's business what you put in your body, whether you have a job or not.

it is but it shouldn't be. unless you're getting high ON THE JOB, it's not your employer's business. and it's not big government's business what you put in your body, whether you have a job or not.


It has to do with the fact that driving is a privelege and not a right (much like welfare).

Getting high OFF THE JOB also has consequences... to health care costs and overall job performance.  I do not need to be "high" on drugs on the job to be suffering from their deleterious effects.

Like everything else in today's society, people want to blame their poverty on somebody else.  They want somebody else to pay their bills.  They want somebody else to provide a Section 8.  They want somebody else to take care of their kids.  But other than that they want somebody else to have no say in the matter.  Sweet deal, somehow I've never been able to score that for myself.  Maybe because I am "somebody else".

It has to do with the fact that driving is a privelege and not a right (much like welfare).

Getting high OFF THE JOB also has consequences... to health care costs and overall job performance.  I do not need to be "high" on drugs on the job to be suffering from their deleterious effects.
maybe we should start testing people to see if they're eating unhealthy foods. after all, that has an effect on job performance and health care costs, too. if your blood pressure goes over a certain level and it can be proven you've eaten a few too many steak 'n' cheeses, enjoy unemployment! sound good?

Like everything else in today's society, people want to blame their poverty on somebody else.  They want somebody else to pay their bills.  They want somebody else to provide a Section 8.  They want somebody else to take care of their kids.  But other than that they want somebody else to have no say in the matter.  Sweet deal, somehow I've never been able to score that for myself.  Maybe because I am "somebody else".
god, cons are such martyrs.  ::) i've got a job too, big guy. that doesn't mean i blame the poor for their predicament. it's like, on monday conservatives tell the poor to get a job. on tuesday, they go, "obama, where are the jobs?" it's unbearable.

anyway, what does this have to do with drug testing welfare recipients? hardly any of them tested positive when the (fairly expensive to the taxpayer, incidentally) testing was in effect, does that mean they're blaming themselves for the fact that there are no jobs, or society? if society is needlessly testing them for drugs and making the taxpayer foot the bill, doesn't that mean that YOU're penalizing society for the poverty of these welfare recipients? after all, if i live in this state i have to waste my tax money on this.

maybe we should start testing people to see if they're eating unhealthy foods. after all, that has an effect on job performance and health care costs, too. if your blood pressure goes over a certain level and it can be proven you've eaten a few too many steak 'n' cheeses, enjoy unemployment! sound good?


I worked for a company that, if you were a smoker, charged you a jacked-up health insurance premium.  And I saw nothing wrong with that, smoking is a personal choice that impacted the company's expenses needlessly.

And yes... if somebody was a huge overeater... why should the company and fellow employees bear the burden of the higher health care expenses of the person who won't get it together?  If an employee is prone to high blood pressure, fails to take his meds, and gobbles down salt by the bucket load... sure, cut that sucker loose, he's part of the problem.

So... I agree with your premise and have no problem with it at all.

I worked for a company that, if you were a smoker, charged you a jacked-up health insurance premium.  And I saw nothing wrong with that, smoking is a personal choice that impacted the company's expenses needlessly.

And yes... if somebody was a huge overeater... why should the company and fellow employees bear the burden of the higher health care expenses of the person who won't get it together?  If an employee is prone to high blood pressure, fails to take his meds, and gobbles down salt by the bucket load... sure, cut that sucker loose, he's part of the problem.

So... I agree with your premise and have no problem with it at all.
that's fine with private employers, i guess, though i choose not to work for companies that violate my privacy or try to meddle in my private lifestyle. if you want to submit to that, fine, be my guest. it's different when it's the government doing it. conservatives are against big government unless they think it's afflicting someone else, like the poor, latinos, homosexuals or women. then, they love it. it's utterly despicable.

and i think max nailed it when he said the underlying  point behind all this has nothing to do with accountability, it has to do with fomenting contempt for the less fortunate. the cornerstone of demagogues since time immemorial, isolating the weak and powerless, labeling them the Other, and persecuting them without fear of reprisal. the word that springs to my mind to describe this is "cowardice." at least the 99%ers pick on bankers and government, i.e., people their own size or larger. the tea partiers only focus on people who are too powerless to fight back. i'd love to see a teabagger hit the streets and take a blast of pepperspray to the face or get beaten by a riot cop to defend their right to persecute welfare recipients. but you know what? i'll never see that. because the tea partiers don't want a REAL fight, they just want to beat up on the weak. that's why i'm on the side i'm on.

this is pissing me off too much tonight. i'm out.

that's fine with private employers, i guess, though i choose not to work for companies that violate my privacy or try to meddle in my private lifestyle. if you want to submit to that, fine, be my guest. it's different when it's the government doing it. conservatives are against big government unless they think it's afflicting someone else, like the poor, latinos, homosexuals or women. then, they love it. it's utterly despicable.

and i think max nailed it when he said the underlying  point behind all this has nothing to do with accountability, it has to do with fomenting contempt for the less fortunate. the cornerstone of demagogues since time immemorial, isolating the weak and powerless, labeling them the Other, and persecuting them without fear of reprisal. the word that springs to my mind to describe this is "cowardice." at least the 99%ers pick on bankers and government, i.e., people their own size or larger. the tea partiers only focus on people who are too powerless to fight back. i'd love to see a teabagger hit the streets and take a blast of pepperspray to the face or get beaten by a riot cop to defend their right to persecute welfare recipients. but you know what? i'll never see that. because the tea partiers don't want a REAL fight, they just want to beat up on the weak. that's why i'm on the side i'm on.

this is pissing me off too much tonight. i'm out.


I'm a Tia partier!
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/13/icon_thumleft.gif

You have the right to food money.
You have the right to decent housing.
You have the right to proper health care.


THE CLASH

Know Your Rights

This is a public service announcement
With guitar--
Know your rights all three of them!

Number 1
You have the right not to be killed
Murder is a CRIME!
Unless it was done by a
Policeman or aristocrat.
Know your rights!

And Number 2
You have the right to food money
Providing of course you
Don't mind a little
Investigation, humiliation
And if you cross your fingers
Rehabilitation!

Know your rights,
These are your rights!

Know these rights!

Number 3
You have the right to free
Speech as long as you're not
Dumb enough to actually try it.

Know your rights
These are your rights
All three of 'em
It has been suggested
In some quarters that this is not enough!
Well...

Get off the streets!
Get off the streets!
Run!
You don't have a home to go to?
Smush

Finally,  then I will read you your rights:

You have the right to remain silent
You are warned that anything you say
Can and will be taken down
And used as evidence against you

Listen to this and run!

Dang!  I deleted my own post!  It was a a beut too!

Oh, well.  The Clash say what I said with far fewer words and no histrionics!
8)

This is just a way to humiliate the poor even more. You think the poor WANT to ask for help? When I was working at the food shelf, I saw the faces of the people asking for help. Yeah, there were a few who wanted to get all they could get, but most of them were very humbled. There was one guy who just asked for diapers and told me that he eats every other day so his wife & kids could eat. Needless to say, he went home with enough food so his WHOLE family can eat. And we didn't ask him to p!ss in a cup. These people DO NOT WANT to be on Welfare! They want jobs-jobs that went overseas.

And from what I heard, only about 2% comes up positive-which is not very cost-effective and cost the tax payers MORE money to run this stupid test then the benefit it pays out.



Cat

When you're poor, you don't have money to buy drugs. You have to spend it on crap like food!
::)

Wasn't this just a big money making scheme for Scott anyways?  I could swear there were stories about him owning the drug testing facilities where the tests were given. 

Oh wait, I guess not, since he has to reimburse 98% of the people.

Being a red-stater I hear people all the time get fired up about this issue and I always argue against drug-testing welfare recipients, although for more selfish personal reasons.

As I'm sure most of you know I drive a truck for a living and am subject to random drug testing. Before I started my driving career back in the late 90's I was somewhat of a pothead but I realized that I had to make a decision between smoking pot and being dirt poor, or giving it up and making a good living doing something I love. To me it was a no-brainer, so I've swore off marijuana use for the last decade and enjoyed the fruits of my labor.

What does this to do with the topic at hand? On one hand I could care less if they drug-test welfare recipients, because to me it's not fair that I should work my ass off and not be allowed to smoke weed on my own personal time while my hard-earned tax dollars go to people who can. Like I said, I am a selfish asshole.

No, my problem with this is that the way I see it, if the government is going to do random drug tests on people drawing welfare checks now then who's to say that in 30 years, they won't be subjecting retirees to piss tests before they can draw their pensions and/or Social Security checks? I mean, I've been playing their game and keeping my nose (and urine) clean for all this time and when I turn 70 and retire the very first thing I plan on doing after I leave my job and get home is firing up a great big ginormous J because, goddammit, I've been working hard all these years and I feel that I will have earned that right.

You really think marijuana is gonna be legal in the United States in 30 years? Please. This country is far too anal about cannabis use for that to ever happen. For all I know they'll probably bring back the guillotine in states like Mississippi and Alabama and chop people's arms off for possession for less than an ounce and their heads off for more than an ounce of weed.

The morons are winning.  :P

Why not drug test members of Congress? After all, they are paid with our tax dollars. Hearing what some of them say and seeing what some of them do, they MUST be smoking something!



Cat

Why not drug test members of Congress? After all, they are paid with our tax dollars. Hearing what some of them say and seeing what some of them do, they MUST be smoking something!



Cat


KARMA!!!

99%: We're only guilty of being unemployed. Don't test us for drugs.
53%: I'm glad caffeine and nicotine and alcohol aren't drugs. Test them for drugs.

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg211/xanadian9/wereallidiots.jpg

1%: Man, I love owning shares in the companies that sell coffee, cigarettes, booze, drug tests, and who operate the privatized prisons.  And being able to lobby the government to keep the profitable stuff legal, and to make the unprofitable stuff illegal.  As long as I can make what makes me money "mandatory", and what I can't make money from "illegal", who cares what's legal, illegal, or in between?

http://qupload.com/images/numberofar.png

0.1%: *giggle*

Why not drug test members of Congress? After all, they are paid with our tax dollars. Hearing what some of them say and seeing what some of them do, they MUST be smoking something!



Cat

Or snorting something.

I find the hypocrisy quite staggering in so many ways, it's hard to believe these people get re-elected.


The morons are winning.  :P

..that's why these people get re-elected.

http://insiderspassport.com/images/moe.gif
Say NO to drugs, kid!

http://thetoyes.bandcamp.com/track/hey-uncle-sam-leave-us-pot-smokers-alone



Cat

I'm a Tia partier!
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/13/icon_thumleft.gif




DITTO

The morons are winning.  :P
QFT

http://thetoyes.bandcamp.com/track/hey-uncle-sam-leave-us-pot-smokers-alone


Wow.  The Toyes, of 1982 "Smoke Two Joints" fame on Dr. Demento, are still making music.  Anchovy Picnic came out this February.

Wow.  The Toyes, of 1982 "Smoke Two Joints" fame on Dr. Demento, are still making music.  Anchovy Picnic came out this February.



Yeah, I saw that. I have their first two albums. I REALLY LOVE their first one (which has "Smoke Two Joints" on it.) I should probably get their latest one, too.



Cat

Yeah, I saw that. I have their first two albums. I REALLY LOVE their first one (which has "Smoke Two Joints" on it.) I should probably get their latest one, too.



Cat


Happy Halloween!  8)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CqQ9_KY6XE

Happy Halloween!  8)

(The Toyes, Monster Hash)


/smites self for forgetting Monster Hash, especially at this time of year.

Ever notice that a lot of people who think welfare recipients should be drug tested don't have any problem with their uncles, friends, brothers, fathers, etc.  who are out on the golf course or riding their Harleys while collecting disability from the police and fire departments.  As a matter of fact, some of the loudest voices are from those very "disabled" persons who retire with full benefits at 55, and sit down at my coffee shop, where they have breakfast every morning.  Now there are your tax dollars at work. 

Happy Halloween!  8)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CqQ9_KY6XE



I beat ya to it.  ;)


http://www.inthe00s.com/index.php?topic=45048.0



Cat