http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11227/1167524-100-0.stm

Interesting article.  Seems some folks from the PSEA (that's the teacher's union for most represented teachers in Pennsylvania) are bemoaning teacher cuts that would increase class sizes to 28 pupils per class.

Oh the horror!

When I was going to school our average class size was 42.  That's 50% bigger than 28.  And our schools had one hell of alot fewer featherbed 'administrators' too.

The loss of teacher funds is blamed partly on a reduction in Federal spending.  Federal spending on local schools should be zero.  The Federal government has no business funding local schools, with the exception of spending on enforcement (not subsidy) to ensure that schools do not discriminate against students on unconstitutional grounds, or funding schools nearby larger military installations. 

Lots more work needed to cut frivolous spending.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11227/1167524-100-0.stm

Interesting article.  Seems some folks from the PSEA (that's the teacher's union for most represented teachers in Pennsylvania) are bemoaning teacher cuts that would increase class sizes to 28 pupils per class.

Oh the horror!

When I was going to school our average class size was 42.  That's 50% bigger than 28.  And our schools had one hell of alot fewer featherbed 'administrators' too.

When you were in school you'd get flogged for disrupting class.  It ain't like that anymore.  I generally don't approve of corporal punishment, but if you've got 45 noisy little bastids in a classroom.  On principle, I don't approve of corporal punishment, but then again...I remember sitting in seventh grade math with the same punkass hoods making the same trouble day after day and getting plenty sick of it. 


The loss of teacher funds is blamed partly on a reduction in Federal spending.  Federal spending on local schools should be zero.  The Federal government has no business funding local schools, with the exception of spending on enforcement (not subsidy) to ensure that schools do not discriminate against students on unconstitutional grounds, or funding schools nearby larger military installations. 


Sounds like the John Birch Society.  Anyway, don't worry, public education is a dying institution in this country.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11227/1167524-100-0.stm

Interesting article.  Seems some folks from the PSEA (that's the teacher's union for most represented teachers in Pennsylvania) are bemoaning teacher cuts that would increase class sizes to 28 pupils per class.

Oh the horror!

When I was going to school our average class size was 42.  That's 50% bigger than 28.  And our schools had one hell of alot fewer featherbed 'administrators' too.

The loss of teacher funds is blamed partly on a reduction in Federal spending.  Federal spending on local schools should be zero.  The Federal government has no business funding local schools, with the exception of spending on enforcement (not subsidy) to ensure that schools do not discriminate against students on unconstitutional grounds, or funding schools nearby larger military installations. 

Lots more work needed to cut frivolous spending.


When I was teaching freshmen U.S. history in college class size was limited to 20 unless I personally signed more in.  It's only good pedagogy, and more important in elementary and high school 

it's time to go back to bretton woods. we're not in this pickle because teachers are greedy. we're not in this pickle because the elderly would like to get the social security benefits they've paid into all their lives. we're in this pickle because we've started two unfunded wars and we've had an ongiong orgy on wall street since the 80s, and we've been running off massive amounts of fiat debt currency to pay for it and foreclosing on people's homes and going after people's pensions when these fatcat deals go south. the same bankers and fatcats who benefit from this would LOVE to blame it on the rest of us, so they can steal more of our pensions and benefits to collateralize the ever-growing liabilities they've been incurring playing their little profiteering reindeer games. well, we can try to squeeze the teachers and firefighters some more, but i think they're about done. eventually these thieving little jackbags are going to have to start paying their own bills, and when they do, there's really going to be hell to pay.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11227/1167524-100-0.stm

Interesting article.  Seems some folks from the PSEA (that's the teacher's union for most represented teachers in Pennsylvania) are bemoaning teacher cuts that would increase class sizes to 28 pupils per class.

Oh the horror!

When I was going to school our average class size was 42.  That's 50% bigger than 28.  And our schools had one hell of alot fewer featherbed 'administrators' too.

The loss of teacher funds is blamed partly on a reduction in Federal spending.  Federal spending on local schools should be zero.  The Federal government has no business funding local schools, with the exception of spending on enforcement (not subsidy) to ensure that schools do not discriminate against students on unconstitutional grounds, or funding schools nearby larger military installations. 

Lots more work needed to cut frivolous spending.



Are you saying that education is frivolous spending?

Apparently you didn't read my last post I made on this topic:




You have never been in a classroom lately, have you? Many of the kids today are dealing with so much sh!t it would make your head spin. Hunger is just one issue but there is also domestic abuse, some of those kids probably haven't seen their fathers in over ten years since these wars started. Not to mention how many kids are on drugs-I'm not talking about illicit drugs. I'm talking about the ones that are being prescribed to kids-like Ritlin and the like. Teachers are excepted to do EVERYTHING from being social workers to parents. And thanks to No Child Left, the teachers are forced to teach a test-which doesn't mean anything anyway. And if the teacher can't reach the kid, then it is the teacher to is blamed. It doesn't matter that the kid doesn't do their work-it is all the teacher's fault.


Oh, and did I mention that they do this all the time they get paid basically minimum wage. And having a teacher's aide can really help a teacher. That teacher's aide can spend more time on a child who has a learning disability so one of two things doesn't happen. 1. The teacher can spend a lot of time on one thing so the kid with the learning disability can keep up with the rest of the class-but the rest of the class will probably get bored or 2. The teacher can just move on so the one with the learning disability will be left behind and if it happens, often enough, that person will eventually drop out of school because they are not teaching them anything-because they are being left behind.


Some time you really should go into a school and just observe what happens on a day to day basis. It just may open your mind a little bit.



Cat 



As for your argument that schools should be paid for all at the local level-not every school district can afford it. In our little town, the median income for 2009 was $34,626. (Estimated per capita income in 2009: $19,091)  70 more people are going to be jobless because of a local business will be closing. There are two schools: In the 2009-10 school year, the elementary school has 372 students (50% were eligible for free or reduced lunch) & the high school has 594 students. Granted the high school gets students from a few of the surrounding towns. My point is, this local community can't really support these schools without federal help. So, without that help, we probably wouldn't have the schools or much of one. I am quite sure that there are many communities around the country very much like ours.

And I will repeat myself:

Some time you really should go into a school and just observe what happens on a day to day basis. It just may open your mind a little bit.



Cat

When you were in school you'd get flogged for disrupting class. 

Tell me about it.  For the past 38 years I have been the all-time record holder in my school distruct for the most "swats" in one session... I got 5 of 'em.  :o

Nowadays the principal would be thrown in jail for that sort of thing.

As it is, the principal did me a favor and said "LB, I'm not gonna tell your parents about this 'cause I know you'd get 10 more if they found out."   :-X

Are you saying that education is frivolous spending?

Some time you really should go into a school and just observe what happens on a day to day basis. It just may open your mind a little bit.

Cat


Education is frivolous spending when somebody cries out loud that average class sizes of 28 are way too big.  If you had these guys in charge of the railroad industry, every train would still have two guys riding in a caboose.

Observe what goes on in a school?  I did... for 12 years and I observed that class sizes of 42 worked fine for us. I observed that we did not need teacher aides, diversity counsellors, and all the other feather bed positions.  We went to school and learned the 3 R's.  If a kid did not behave he was expelled (that included the guy who, uh, 'whipped it out' in study hall in front of Mrs. Antoinette.  :o )

Local funding for schools?  Let the STATES figure it out.  There is no need for Uncle Sam to throw into this.  Pennsylvania has already figured out how to fund schools with state money, where less prosperous districts ride on the dole of the state.  So the Fed does not need to throw in more money which, by the way, is confiscated from state citizens anyway.  By the way, PA shows an inverse relationship between state subsidies and performance.  The districts that get the most money produce the worst students but some of the best sports teams.

Education is frivolous spending when somebody cries out loud that average class sizes of 28 are way too big.  If you had these guys in charge of the railroad industry, every train would still have two guys riding in a caboose.

Observe what goes on in a school?  I did... for 12 years and I observed that class sizes of 42 worked fine for us. I observed that we did not need teacher aides, diversity counsellors, and all the other feather bed positions.  We went to school and learned the 3 R's.  If a kid did not behave he was expelled (that included the guy who, uh, 'whipped it out' in study hall in front of Mrs. Antoinette.  :o )

Local funding for schools?  Let the STATES figure it out.  There is no need for Uncle Sam to throw into this.  Pennsylvania has already figured out how to fund schools with state money, where less prosperous districts ride on the dole of the state.  So the Fed does not need to throw in more money which, by the way, is confiscated from state citizens anyway.  By the way, PA shows an inverse relationship between state subsidies and performance.  The districts that get the most money produce the worst students but some of the best sports teams.


Either edumacation is for the masses or it ain't. 

If we wish to say the strength of our nation depends on every child getting a good education, then the federal government must subsidize education -- including college to a far greater degree than it does now.

If we reserve a good education only for those who can pay out of pocket for it, then we have a different kind of country altogether.  Perhaps the Right will get their way: We abolish the Department of Education and make schools wholly reliant upon local aid.  I'd bear such a monstrous policy on one condition:

NO BELLYACHING ABOUT AMERICA FALLING BEHIND KAZAKHSTAN IN MATH AND SCIENCE. 

You can bet your chop suey the Chinese aren't following the American Right's doctrine on education.  They're producing more PhDs than we are.
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/09/smilejap.gif

Either edumacation is for the masses or it ain't. 

If we wish to say the strength of our nation depends on every child getting a good education, then the federal government must subsidize education -- including college to a far greater degree than it does now.

If we reserve a good education only for those who can pay out of pocket for it, then we have a different kind of country altogether.  Perhaps the Right will get their way: We abolish the Department of Education and make schools wholly reliant upon local aid.  I'd bear such a monstrous policy on one condition:

NO BELLYACHING ABOUT AMERICA FALLING BEHIND KAZAKHSTAN IN MATH AND SCIENCE.   

You can bet your chop suey the Chinese aren't following the American Right's doctrine on education.  They're producing more PhDs than we are.
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/09/smilejap.gif


Have you ever noticed that the countries with the worst dictators also have the highest rates of illiteracy?  That's no coincidence.  Sure there are problems with education, but they can be solved, and they don't center on teachers.  They begin in the home and are brought to school

Education is frivolous spending when somebody cries out loud that average class sizes of 28 are way too big.  If you had these guys in charge of the railroad industry, every train would still have two guys riding in a caboose.

Observe what goes on in a school?  I did... for 12 years and I observed that class sizes of 42 worked fine for us. I observed that we did not need teacher aides, diversity counsellors, and all the other feather bed positions.  We went to school and learned the 3 R's.  If a kid did not behave he was expelled (that included the guy who, uh, 'whipped it out' in study hall in front of Mrs. Antoinette.  :o )

Local funding for schools?  Let the STATES figure it out.  There is no need for Uncle Sam to throw into this.  Pennsylvania has already figured out how to fund schools with state money, where less prosperous districts ride on the dole of the state.  So the Fed does not need to throw in more money which, by the way, is confiscated from state citizens anyway.  By the way, PA shows an inverse relationship between state subsidies and performance.  The districts that get the most money produce the worst students but some of the best sports teams.


You "observed" for 12 years? How long ago was that? Was that BEFORE mainstreaming was wide spread? Was that BEFORE many kids were on drugs? Was that BEFORE No Child Left?

Like Max said, if we leave it up to the states and the local level, we would have a nation of uneducated people. Look at what the Texas Legislature is trying to do to school funding.

http://www.dallasnews.com/news/politics/texas-legislature/headlines/20110317-texas-senate-panel-backs-funding-cut-of-almost-6-for-public-schools-.ece

There are many red states that would love to eliminate public schooling all together. And I'm sure that your 12 years of "observation" was funded in part by the Federal Government.



Cat 

You don't have fair competition if your birth circumstances determine how good your education will be.  It is already bad enough as it is.  If you are born in a shack in East Coffee, Mississippi, you should get the opportunity for a quality education as a child born in Poshville, U.S.A.  To say otherwise is to support a permanent underclass. 

You don't have fair competition if your birth circumstances determine how good your education will be.  It is already bad enough as it is.  If you are born in a shack in East Coffee, Mississippi, you should get the opportunity for a quality education as a child born in Poshville, U.S.A.  To say otherwise is to support a permanent underclass. 



Exactly! Karma.



Cat

You don't have fair competition if your birth circumstances determine how good your education will be.  It is already bad enough as it is.  If you are born in a shack in East Coffee, Mississippi, you should get the opportunity for a quality education as a child born in Poshville, U.S.A.  To say otherwise is to support a permanent underclass. 


But that is precisely what the repubs want because that permanent underclass is less likely to vote, and besides, their corporate overlords want cheap labor

But that is precisely what the repubs want because that permanent underclass is less likely to vote, and besides, their corporate overlords want cheap labor


Now they won't hire Americans even at minimum wage!
::)

Now they won't hire Americans even at minimum wage!
::)


Its called "the reserve army of labor"

Its called "the reserve army of labor"


More like the reserve army of Soylent Green!
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/11/angry3.gif

More like the reserve army of Soylent Green!
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/11/angry3.gif


That too.

Generals win their wars by recruiting armies, capitalistts by discharging them

In recent news, several states are saving $$$ by cutting the school week to four days.  So much for competing in the 21st century economy

In recent news, several states are saving $$$ by cutting the school week to four days.  So much for competing in the 21st century economy
america's committing suicide. we'd rather ride trickle-down economics to our national death than actually run the country, educate its children, give the poor a leg up, nurture our elders. i'm not sure i care anymore. i don't have kids, and if you can't fight for yours (and by "you" i mean anyone who has children), you probably deserve to have your children be ignorant and fail in life and wind up emotionally and physically damaged cannon fodder. they can enlist in the military and get shell shock and a lungful of depleted uranium for all i care. that's the only job left in america for kids anymore. and you let it happen, with your retarded nationalism and your desire to drown the government in a bathtub.

fight for your kids' education, or tie a yellow ribbon around a tree in your front yard and keep noising off about how awesome america's wars are. you can't have both.

fudge, i'm disgusted with this country. we deserve it. we deserve everything we're about to get.

sorry. i kinda went off again.

sorry. i kinda went off again.


I, for one, loved every last letter of it  ;)

Karma +1 4 Tia.

Now the Canadians are assisting us.  We want a 1500-mile pipeline from the Alberta tar sands to pump dirty shale oil across the continent.  We just can't dump enough hydrocarbons into the air!
::)