Expect for the next year to see the Obama Administration's last desperate assault on individual freedoms, private enterprise, property rights, and your wallet.

Today the Administration issued an edict that not only should all health insurance programs pay for any form of birth control whatsoever for women, but that ORDINARY COPAYS AND DEDUCTIBLES WILL NOT APPLY.

The President found that the Congress will no longer support his endless spending spree, so he found a way to foist off the cost of his social agenda to John Q. Insurance Policy Holder.

This ia a brazen attack on free enterprise, the right of two entities to enter into contracts, and YOUR wallet.  The so-called "free goodies" will come at the expense of all insurance policy holders.  Based on this precedent I am surprised that he did not simply "shoot the lock off" and abolish copays and deductibles altogether.

As an aside, I did not see whether or not free condooms are part of this deal.  If the various contraceptives for women will now be provided gratis, then I should also get the courtesy of a couple of packs of Magnum XL's provided each month, free of charge.

This ruling will, of course, be overturned when the current administration is run out of office in November 2012... about a year BEFORE the regulation otherwise would come into effect.

Strategically this is an absurd regulation... it hands a HUGE amount of ammo to the opposition who will use it to the max.

finally, some good news from the obama administration. i completely support this measure. i also think free condoms would be a great idea.

finally, some good news from the obama administration. i completely support this measure.


Why?  If people are mature enough to get it on, they're mature enough to pay their own way.

This ruling assumes that your average woman is a leech who expects other people to front the money for her sex life. (And by extension it assumes their male sex partners are equally parasitic on society).

Why?  If people are mature enough to get it on, they're mature enough to pay their own way.a lot of people who get it on aren't mature at ALL. i know, cuz i was one of them. it wasn't because i was a leech or because i was parasitic on society, it's because i was a young guy making dumb decisions.

This ruling assumes that your average woman is a leech who expects other people to front the money for her sex life. (And by extension it assumes their male sex partners are equally parasitic on society).
i think in a broader social context, it's better to do things that will reduce unwanted pregnancy. the social cost is less in the long run, because at some point the costs of an unwanted pregnancy/child become public expenses. i don't think it makes assumptions about individuals, this ruling, but it springs from an acknowledgment of the statistical reality that there are a lot of unwanted pregnancies in america, and the thing is -- sex is tempting. everyone claims to make good decisions about sex but just about everyone has made bad decisions out of temptation, out of it being difficult to get a condom, out of kids who can't get birth control, who are worried about their parents finding out, etc.

a lot of people who get it on aren't mature at ALL. i know, cuz i was one of them. it wasn't because i was a leech or because i was parasitic on society, it's because i was a young guy making dumb decisions.

And because birth control is free, somehow you would have become "smarter" and used it? ???

And because birth control is free, somehow you would have become "smarter" and used it? ???
i couldn't get it, well, my girlfriend couldn't, birth control. and it was really hard for me to get condoms, as i remember they wanted you to be 18 and i literally had 5 bucks or less in my pocket at any given time. what people do that's "dumb" vis-a-vis safe sex isn't to either decide to do it or not, bet that they allow barriers to talk them out of bothering with safe sex if it's difficult to get birth control/condoms. put fewer obstacles in people's way and yes, i think more people will use birth control. that seems like a bit of a no-brainer, actually.

finally, some good news from the obama administration. i completely support this measure. i also think free condoms would be a great idea.



Totally agree.



Cat

i couldn't get it, well, my girlfriend couldn't, birth control. and it was really hard for me to get condoms, as i remember they wanted you to be 18 and i literally had 5 bucks or less in my pocket at any given time. what people do that's "dumb" vis-a-vis safe sex isn't to either decide to do it or not, bet that they allow barriers to talk them out of bothering with safe sex if it's difficult to get birth control/condoms. put fewer obstacles in people's way and yes, i think more people will use birth control. that seems like a bit of a no-brainer, actually.


Condooms: 75 cents from the machine in the local truck stop rest room.  Easier and cheaper than making a doctor's appointment to get the prescription. I assure you there are far fewer barriers to that condoom machine than there are even at a 'free' clinic.

Your approach to this issue is typical of what we see from the present government:  Our government thinks that its citizens are too irresponsible to do the right thing.  So the benevolent government will step in and take care of you.  You don't have to think... or be responsible... or pay your own way... Uncle Sam will take care of you and ultimately enslave you in dependency, courtesy of the wallets of those who were... thinking... responsible... and paid their own way...  And if you STILL didn't use the rubbers... than we'll spot you a free abortion to boot...

It's cheaper to subsidize contraception than it is to subsidize children. 

I don't have a problem with chipping in for a box o' condoms so Joe Schmoe with two bucks to his name doesn't put his girl in the family way. 

A subsidy does not negate the teaching or practice of personal responsibility. 

Again, the cost of family planning coverage in the insurance pool will be negligible.  When we factor in the savings to programs such as transitional assistance, SNAP, WIC, and housing, you actually come out ahead.

I don't want life decisions -- birth, health, or death --- to be at the mercy of "free enterprise" and I am not seeing the desperate assault on personal freedoms. 

Expect for the next year to see the Obama Administration's last desperate assault on individual freedoms, private enterprise, property rights, and your wallet.

Today the Administration issued an edict that not only should all health insurance programs pay for any form of birth control whatsoever for women, but that ORDINARY COPAYS AND DEDUCTIBLES WILL NOT APPLY.


So I'm guessing this is an assault on my wallet?  Abortions cost more than birth control or raising children.  We're in the middle a recession (that the Republicans in the House are trying to prolong at all costs) and governments have historically been all in favor of population control methods when it's known that population is a problem.  Makes a lot more fiscal sense than the huge hand outs in the form of tax breaks to the top 1% of the country for essentially doing nothing. 

Condooms: 75 cents from the machine in the local truck stop rest room.  Easier and cheaper than making a doctor's appointment to get the prescription. I assure you there are far fewer barriers to that condoom machine than there are even at a 'free' clinic.well, when these things were happening, i wasn't particularly close to a truck stop. the nearest one was a couple hours away by car. i think there were some condom machines downtown at nightclubs and so forth, but there were none near me. that they're cheap and available some places doesn't mean they're cheap and available ALL places, and making them, or at least a basic version, free, would be helpful in terms of their availability. they're tricky to get in urban environments, esp. if you're under 18, esp. if you've got a proper lovely tapping her foot, and esp. if you already think you're gonna live forever because you're 15, 16, and as all 15, 16 year olds know, you live forever.

Your approach to this issue is typical of what we see from the present government:  Our government thinks that its citizens are too irresponsible to do the right thing.  So the benevolent government will step in and take care of you.  You don't have to think... or be responsible... or pay your own way... Uncle Sam will take care of you and ultimately enslave you in dependency, courtesy of the wallets of those who were... thinking... responsible... and paid their own way...  And if you STILL didn't use the rubbers... than we'll spot you a free abortion to boot...
well, yeah, i mean, this is good because i think it goes to a very basic way in which we see the world differently. i don't really see this decision as something with emotional content. it's more a statistical analysis, it's people looking at a problem, unwanted pregnancy, in this case, and saying, how do we minimize this problem? well, if we make birth control pills and condoms readily available, i think that will affect those statistics in the desired fashion. it's kinda a result of cold, bureaucratic analysis. you, i think in a lot of ways to your credit, invest a personal perspective into it and say, well, no, this is going to support people who make bad decisions, and we shouldn't subsidize that. if i didn't make bad decisions why should i sacrifice for someone who did? i get that, i really do. i think there's a certain fear of a well-administrated civil society because it makes decisions that affect millions of people, but dude, this planet is teeming with people and resource depletion is rampant and FOR GOD'S SAKE BUY CANNED GOODS. GET A SHOTGUN. i'm out, thank you. i'm here every week. more free birth control pills means less zombie flesh eaters coming after me in my twilight years and that's a good thing.

How does the government funding birth control diminish my capacity for responsible behavior.  I don't get it.
???

Why?  If people are mature enough to get it on, they're mature enough to pay their own way.


http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss194/GAT_00/Funny/000bbyaa.jpg


This ruling assumes that your average woman is a leech who expects other people to front the money for her sex life. (And by extension it assumes their male sex partners are equally parasitic on society).


...and? :)  But even if I'm predisposed to give society the benefit of the doubt, we're not exactly worried about the middle quintile here.  

If you want to cut down on crime in a 10-20 year timeframe, you cut down on the proportion of kids who up without parents.  To that end, I'd not only subsizize birth control, I'd also subsidize abortion 100%.  Not "mandate that insurers provide it without copays".  I'm talking funding a "Department of Undoing Stupid Things Or Familial Failures (DUSTOFF)" to the tune of a few billion a year, and hiring educators, pharmacists, condom suppliers, referrers to adoption agencies, and yes, doctors - who would (when, and not if) the educators, pharmacists, condom-restocking dudes, and adoption agents had all consecutively failed to restrain the human sex drive - perform abortions on demand.  To within seconds before birth, if so inclined.

Condoms?  This is a pop culture board, and even though many of us are too old for own good, Meat Loaf's Paradise by the Dashboard Light managed to succesfully cross not one, but two generation gaps.  How'd that song end again?

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss194/GAT_00/Funny/000bbyaa.jpg

...and? :)  But even if I'm predisposed to give society the benefit of the doubt, we're not exactly worried about the middle quintile here.  

If you want to cut down on crime in a 10-20 year timeframe, you cut down on the proportion of kids who up without parents.  To that end, I'd not only subsizize birth control, I'd also subsidize abortion 100%.  Not "mandate that insurers provide it without copays".  I'm talking funding a "Department of Undoing Stupid Things Or Familial Failures (DUSTOFF)" to the tune of a few billion a year, and hiring educators, pharmacists, condom suppliers, referrers to adoption agencies, and yes, doctors - who would (when, and not if) the educators, pharmacists, condom-restocking dudes, and adoption agents had all consecutively failed to restrain the human sex drive - perform abortions on demand.  To within seconds before birth, if so inclined.

Condoms?  This is a pop culture board, and even though many of us are too old for own good, Meat Loaf's Paradise by the Dashboard Light managed to succesfully cross not one, but two generation gaps.  How'd that song end again?


Yeah, more like "Paradise by the Refrigerator Light."  Anyway, I had a condom in my wallet when I was barely seventeen, but I didn't get to use it 'cos she had to Add It Up.  

The song is also ominous of the more pressing problems teens had in the nineties and zeroes, not sex, but GUNS:

Oh, ma-mama, mama-mo-ma-mum
Have you kept your eye, your eye on your son?
I know you've had problems, you're not the only one
When your sugar left, he left you on the run

Oh, ma-mama, mama-mo-ma-mum
Take a look now at what your boy has done
He's walking around like he's number one
Went downtown and you got him a gun

So don't shoot, shoot, shoot that thing at me
Don't shoot, shoot, shoot that thing at me
You know you've got my sympathy
But don't shoot, shoot, shoot that thing at me

So don't shoot, shoot, shoot that thing at me
Don't shoot, shoot, shoot that thing at me
You know you've got my sympathy
But don't shoot, shoot, shoot that thing at me

http://news.sky.com/sky-news/content/StaticFile/jpg/2006/Sep/Week4/1451675.jpg

You guys just don't realize that the pill is not just used for contraception. I know women who are not sexually active but still take it. Many women take the pill to regulate their monthly cycle. I have suffered from cramps every month. When I was on the pill, the cramps were almost non-existent. Unfortunately, I had to stop taking it because it really made me VERY nauseous-but that was me. If that didn't happen, I probably would have taken it for years because it was nice knowing EXACTLY when my period was coming (almost to the hour/minute) and it was fairly light and like I said, no pain. I knew this woman who period never ended.  :o :o :o  The doctor put her on THREE birth control pills!  :o :o :o :o

My point, is that there are a lot of other medical reasons why a woman would take the pill.



Cat

Birth control wasn't covered by insurance in most cases until viagra. Yup, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.  Viagra was covered without debate, but birth control wasn't. Never heard any complaining about that.

Birth control wasn't covered by insurance in most cases until viagra. Yup, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.  Viagra was covered without debate, but birth control wasn't. Never heard any complaining about that.



Exactly.


Cat

Birth control wasn't covered by insurance in most cases until viagra. Yup, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.  Viagra was covered without debate, but birth control wasn't. Never heard any complaining about that.


The argument as to why Viagra and not birth control was erectile dysfunction is a medical illness while conception and pregnancy are not.

Yeah but...it just didn't seem fair to me! 
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/10/sperm.gif

The argument as to why Viagra and not birth control was erectile dysfunction is a medical illness while conception and pregnancy are not.

Yeah but...it just didn't seem fair to me! 
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/10/sperm.gif


Let's see the stats on deaths attributed to erectile dysfunction as opposed to deaths attributed to pregnancy and childbirth. 

The argument as to why Viagra and not birth control was erectile dysfunction is a medical illness while conception and pregnancy are not.


I'd have loved to have asked my insurance company "So, if I get a vasectomy (or if a female gets a tubal ligation), can I get a premium reduction for pregnancy/childcare coverage?  And while we're at it, how 'bout all those quack treatments that you cover in order to attract the hippie demographic?  Can I get a premium reduction for waiving any rights to claim any of that stuff too?"

Not because I'd expect them to be capable of providing it - they're probably legally barred from making such offers - but I'd like to ask, just to see the poor agent's head explode.  It's fundamentally no different from a non-smoker getting a reduction in premiums because they're less likely to develop lung cancer.

The year before I retire, I swear to Dobbs I'll do all that and more during Open Enrollment (employer-sponsored healthcare plans, most of which are pretty good, but all of which have reps showing up hawking their goods) season of my last year at the day job.

I'd have loved to have asked my insurance company "So, if I get a vasectomy (or if a female gets a tubal ligation), can I get a premium reduction for pregnancy/childcare coverage?  And while we're at it, how 'bout all those quack treatments that you cover in order to attract the hippie demographic?  Can I get a premium reduction for waiving any rights to claim any of that stuff too?"

Not because I'd expect them to be capable of providing it - they're probably legally barred from making such offers - but I'd like to ask, just to see the poor agent's head explode.  It's fundamentally no different from a non-smoker getting a reduction in premiums because they're less likely to develop lung cancer.

The year before I retire, I swear to Dobbs I'll do all that and more during Open Enrollment (employer-sponsored healthcare plans, most of which are pretty good, but all of which have reps showing up hawking their goods) season of my last year at the day job.


Lou Dobbs or Bob Dobbs?
8)

The whole problem is that we treat health care in a slipshod, piecemeal way.  That's part of what's wrong with private insurance and what's wrong with "Obamacare", and that's why we need universal health care as a human right.  This is just one more (necessary) band aid

You guys just don't realize that the pill is not just used for contraception. I know women who are not sexually active but still take it. Many women take the pill to regulate their monthly cycle. I have suffered from cramps every month. When I was on the pill, the cramps were almost non-existent. Unfortunately, I had to stop taking it because it really made me VERY nauseous-but that was me. If that didn't happen, I probably would have taken it for years because it was nice knowing EXACTLY when my period was coming (almost to the hour/minute) and it was fairly light and like I said, no pain. I knew this woman who period never ended.  :o :o :o  The doctor put her on THREE birth control pills!  :o :o :o :o

My point, is that there are a lot of other medical reasons why a woman would take the pill.


I have a feeling that's the reason it's really being covered and that people aren't going to be covered when it's strictly for birth control. I'm sure the fact that any kind of birth control being covered is enough to send the social conservatives into a frenzied pitch however about killing the unborn or some nonsense.

shakes head in bewilderment

All kinds of contraception are provided free on the NHS - including condoms.

shakes head in bewilderment

All kinds of contraception are provided free on the NHS - including condoms.



Once again you have to prove that the British health care system is way superior to the U.S.

People on the right always try to make the British & Canadian systems VEWY SCARWY!!!! OOOH!!!! Because if the vast majority of Americans KNEW how good those systems are, they would be hollering for it which would be bad for the insurance companies and for the politician whose campaigns benefit from those same insurance companies. Follow the money!



Cat 

Let's see the stats on deaths attributed to erectile dysfunction as opposed to deaths attributed to pregnancy and childbirth. 

That's a bit of a soft target...

That's a bit of a soft target...


I'd have to think long and hard to come up with a better pun!
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/15/tongue4.gif