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After the New Hampshire get together earlier this week, Michelle Bachman has been buzzed about by the right as "not just another Sarah Palin" as if that was some kind of huge accomplishment.  Personally I still fail to see much difference aside from more experience in politics.  She still puts forth dreadful ideas.

That's right.  No unemployment under slavery.  Everybody had a job!
::)

That's right.  No unemployment under slavery.  Everybody had a job!
::)


Well, at least every black person.  Don't you remember "no Irish need apply"?

Well, at least every black person.  Don't you remember "no Irish need apply"?


Lower the price and increase the slave market.  Make slavery and equal opportunity employer!  Here's an idea: Temp Slaves.  That way massa don't have to pay the room/board/medical outlays, the temp company do!
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Well Michelle Bachmann's theory about eliminating the minimum wage sure it would eliminate alot of unemployment but the country would get alot poorer.

She is running for VP anyway in my opinon I  mean a US House Member hasn't won the US Presidency in ages. In addition she has no executive experience. She has the same experience as Obama did before he won the US Presidency in 2008 in being a state senator, a lawyer, and a US Capitol Hill Politician.

Well Michelle Bachmann's theory about eliminating the minimum wage sure it would eliminate alot of unemployment but the country would get alot poorer.

She is running for VP anyway in my opinon I  mean a US House Member hasn't won the US Presidency in ages. In addition she has no executive experience. She has the same experience as Obama did before he won the US Presidency in 2008 in being a state senator, a lawyer, and a US Capitol Hill Politician.


The comparison is superficial.  For one thing Obama has brains, for another, he doesn't take orders from the mother ship.  If she gets on the Repub ticket she will get nailed for this, and NOT the way LB would like to "nail" her

The comparison is superficial.  For one thing Obama has brains, for another, he doesn't take orders from the mother ship.   If she gets on the Repub ticket she will get nailed for this, and NOT the way LB would like to "nail" her


Bachmann is quite mad.  Folks often compare her to Sarah Palin, but Palin is a dull average intellect paired with a savage ambition.  Bachmann is clinically insane.  She won't get the nod.  She's a bad risk.  Wall Street won't invest.

Not surprised at all with her thinking, I mean the GOP has been fighting the minimum wage for years, what she said is the GOP platform. A big reason why I will never support the Republican party. Instead of blaming the wall street thugs for getting us into this mess, the GOP puts the blame on the working man making minmum wage SICK.  8-P The GOP would love if Wal Mart or some of their other corporate buddies could get away paying people 50 cents an hour. Don't tell me some of these huge corporations that are raking in billions upon billions of dollars can't afford to pay workers a mere $7.25 an hour? But hey let's get rid of the minmum wage, unions, hell just trash the whole Department of Labor who needs any regulations the corporations know what's right.  ::)

The comparison is superficial.  For one thing Obama has brains, for another, he doesn't take orders from the mother ship.   If she gets on the Repub ticket she will get nailed for this, and NOT the way LB would like to "nail" her

I do not believe that I have used the verb "to nail" in this manner on these boards.

I am a member of Bachman's "party" though.

All this talk about the minimum wage, from both ends of the spectrum, is really a sideshow.  The miniwage I doubt costs the economy many jobs but at the same time I don't think it is any boon to the economy either.

Quite frankly, the labor movement over the years got exceedingly lazy and tried to gain advances by working the political angle, instead of using its key and unique (potential) strength... solidarity and the power of the labor strike.  With our without a minimum wage, a grassroots-organized labor movement would bring to bear economic wage rates.

Look at those wussies in Wisconsin.  They're just sitting back and taking it, expecting the Supreme Court to do their work for them.  Why aren't they on strike?

But without union leaders that actually ATTRACTS and INSPIRES followers instead of attempting to COMPEL them and their dues, the labor movement has ablated over the past 30 years.

Until the labor movement finds its next John L. Lewis and Jimmy Hoffa, it is going nowhere.

Mitt Romney would be the obvious answer.  The Tea Party crazies shun him because he broke the purist doctrine in Massachusetts with Commonwealth Care.  I don't like Romney at all, but he's a damn sight better than Bachmann, Cain, Perry, or Pawlenty. 

Mitt Romney would be the obvious answer.  The Tea Party crazies shun him because he broke the purist doctrine in Massachusetts with Commonwealth Care.  I don't like Romney at all, but he's a damn sight better than Bachmann, Cain, Perry, or Pawlenty. 
Well Rick Perry he has been a good governor. I'm not to hot on Cain because of the fair tax or Bachmann because she voted for "The Ryan Plan" and the no executive experience factor. I think Pawlenty is a decent politician but he likes "The Ryan Plan" too.

I do not believe that I have used the verb "to nail" in this manner on these boards.

I am a member of Bachman's "party" though.

All this talk about the minimum wage, from both ends of the spectrum, is really a sideshow.  The miniwage I doubt costs the economy many jobs but at the same time I don't think it is any boon to the economy either.

Quite frankly, the labor movement over the years got exceedingly lazy and tried to gain advances by working the political angle, instead of using its key and unique (potential) strength... solidarity and the power of the labor strike.  With our without a minimum wage, a grassroots-organized labor movement would bring to bear economic wage rates.

Look at those wussies in Wisconsin.  They're just sitting back and taking it, expecting the Supreme Court to do their work for them.  Why aren't they on strike?

But without union leaders that actually ATTRACTS and INSPIRES followers instead of attempting to COMPEL them and their dues, the labor movement has ablated over the past 30 years.

Until the labor movement finds its next John L. Lewis and Jimmy Hoffa, it is going nowhere.


I'm looking for the new Joe Hill and Bill Hayward, but yeah, I think your observation is correct.  But its not all the fault of the unions.  They have been hemmed in by both state and fed gov'ts and forced into the Sam Gompers mode of unionization, called "business unionism".  In terms of the minimum wage, it does protect lots of teens working part time jobs, and other unskilled workers who, without the Wobblies, are up the proverbial creek

I'm looking for the new Joe Hill and Bill Hayward, but yeah, I think your observation is correct.  But its not all the fault of the unions.  They have been hemmed in by both state and fed gov'ts and forced into the Sam Gompers mode of unionization, called "business unionism".  In terms of the minimum wage, it does protect lots of teens working part time jobs, and other unskilled workers who, without the Wobblies, are up the proverbial creek


"An English-man on the P.A.C. gets fifteen shillings a week because fifteen
shillings is the smallest sum on which he can conceivably keep alive. If he
were, say, an Indian or Japanese coolie, who can live on rice and onions,
he wouldn't get fifteen shillings a week--he would be lucky if he got
fifteen shillings a month."
-- George Orwell, "The Road to Wigan Pier," 1937

Similar to what Orwell was saying about the British dole, if America abolished the minimum wage, the corporations WOULD NOT meet the workers at a reasonable rate.  A fast food worker might get a dollar an hour if he was lucky.  A mechanical engineer might be able to bargain himself a comfy $15,000 grand a year salary.  Meanwhile, the top 1% of wealth hoarders would get rich beyond their wildest dreams...until the economy utterly imploded three years later! 

Nobody can live on $7.25 an hour at 28 hours a week as it is.  Nobody.  Not even a healthy 21-year-old male.  The minimum wage is a starvation wage. 

Similar to what Orwell was saying about the British dole, if America abolished the minimum wage, the corporations WOULD NOT meet the workers at a reasonable rate.  A fast food worker might get a dollar an hour if he was lucky.  A mechanical engineer might be able to bargain himself a comfy $15,000 grand a year salary. 

Mechanical engineers (starting out of school these days) are pulling down somewhere between $40k and $64k.  My guess is the average is prolly $42k.    Given the level of unemployment that currently exists and the miniwage where it stands, your theory would not support these wage levels.

I saw on TV that petroleum engineers are getting $85k right out of school.  8)

Mechanical engineers (starting out of school these days) are pulling down somewhere between $40k and $64k.  My guess is the average is prolly $42k.    Given the level of unemployment that currently exists and the miniwage where it stands, your theory would not support these wage levels.

I saw on TV that petroleum engineers are getting $85k right out of school.  8)


That's now.  I think what Max is pointing to is n economy without any gov't controls and with a captive, or subservient labor movement

That's now.  I think what Max is pointing to is n economy without any gov't controls and with a captive, or subservient labor movement


How much does a mechanical engineer in Bangalore get paid?  That's what I mean!

Not surprised at all with her thinking, I mean the GOP has been fighting the minimum wage for years, what she said is the GOP platform. A big reason why I will never support the Republican party. Instead of blaming the wall street thugs for getting us into this mess, the GOP puts the blame on the working man making minmum wage SICK.  8-P The GOP would love if Wal Mart or some of their other corporate buddies could get away paying people 50 cents an hour. Don't tell me some of these huge corporations that are raking in billions upon billions of dollars can't afford to pay workers a mere $7.25 an hour? But hey let's get rid of the minmum wage, unions, hell just trash the whole Department of Labor who needs any regulations the corporations know what's right.  ::)
I haven't heard anybody besides Bachmann from the GOP saying the want to eliminate the minimum wage.

You guys on the left always want to blame Wall Street entirely for the 2008 financial crisis but what about these people that signed for these bad loans? I mean they knew they couldn't afford the loans that they signed. Would you buy a car you couldn't afford?

With that said though Wall Street had a problem and was out of control but they are not totally to blame for the 2008 finanicial crisis.

Bottom Line: You have to blame the people that made the bad loans(the lenders) and the people that signed for them.

I haven't heard anybody besides Bachmann from the GOP saying the want to eliminate the minimum wage.

You guys on the left always want to blame Wall Street entirely for the 2008 financial crisis but what about these people that signed for these bad loans? I mean they knew they couldn't afford the loans that they signed. Would you buy a car you couldn't afford?

With that said though Wall Street had a problem and was out of control but they are not totally to blame for the 2008 finanicial crisis.

Bottom Line: You have to blame the people that made the bad loans(the lenders) and the people that signed for them.



The thing is, those people who signed up for those loans 9 times out of 10 were duped into believing they COULD afford it. There is such thing as small print that not too many read-or many people COULDN'T read it (in other words, the lenders didn't make the small print visible). Also, you had people who bought houses but then lost their jobs.

Then you have the lenders bundling all those mortgages and selling them which are then used as collateral for making other loans. When the whole thing went bust, all those lenders came out ahead of the game (i.e. government bailouts) while the taxpayers lost their homes or their home values are now under water.

If the lenders weren't so greedy, they would have told people who couldn't afford houses that they couldn't afford it. That would have been the honest thing to do, they were are NOT honest.


Cat

The Wall Street crooks held the entire American economy hostage to conditions of their bailout.  They got off the hook and they got to keep the money.  The government gave no disincentive for financial institutions to rip off the public again.  If I speed at 100 mph I'll get a huge fine, my insurance premiums will increase, and might even lose my driver's license.  Those are disincentives to drive 100 mph.  If the cops just said, "Hey don't drive that fast anymore," and did nothing else, I probably would continue to speed if I was so inclined. 

Bank executives and hedge fund managers gave us a clear message: We're untouchable.  We own the government.

Society eventually breaks down.  You're homeless and hungry while they live in 40-room mansions and swill champagne and caviar.  If the law won't do anything, maybe I will.  Let's go shoot the motherbleepers.  I'm just saying, hypothetically....
::)

The Wall Street crooks held the entire American economy hostage to conditions of their bailout.  They got off the hook and they got to keep the money.  The government gave no disincentive for financial institutions to rip off the public again.  If I speed at 100 mph I'll get a huge fine, my insurance premiums will increase, and might even lose my driver's license.  Those are disincentives to drive 100 mph.  If the cops just said, "Hey don't drive that fast anymore," and did nothing else, I probably would continue to speed if I was so inclined. 

Bank executives and hedge fund managers gave us a clear message: We're untouchable.  We own the government.

Society eventually breaks down.  You're homeless and hungry while they live in 40-room mansions and swill champagne and caviar.  If the law won't do anything, maybe I will.  Let's go shoot the motherbleepers.  I'm just saying, hypothetically....
::)


Hypothetically it may come to that, but not yet Max, not yet

Hypothetically it may come to that, but not yet Max, not yet


Those porkers are asking for it.  They not only want to horde all the money, they also want to do away with housing subsidies, medicare, and even food stamps.  No bread?  Ever hear of a guy called Louis XVI?
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/02/behead.gif

Those porkers are asking for it.  They not only want to horde all the money, they also want to do away with housing subsidies, medicare, and even food stamps.  No bread?  Ever hear of a guy called Louis XVI?
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/02/behead.gif


Yes, and his "let them eat cake" spouse.  And I know what they WANT to do as well as you.  But THEY HAVEN'T DONE IT, and I don't think they will, so hold your fire until you see... no, we already see the greed in their eyes, the swastikas in their eyes.  At that point I'll go into a foco with you

Yes, and his "let them eat cake" spouse.

She didn't actually say that


If I speed at 100 mph I'll get a huge fine, my insurance premiums will increase, and might even lose my driver's license.  Those are disincentives to drive 100 mph.  If the cops just said, "Hey don't drive that fast anymore," and did nothing else, I probably would continue to speed if I was so inclined. 

..and we'll fix your car at taxpayers' expense if you crash.. :(

I got mine. Screw everybody else.



Cat

I got mine. Screw everybody else.



Cat


and Atlas Shrugged.

I got mine. Screw everybody else.



Cat


And I want YOURS too!

And I want YOURS too!



Who is that in your avatar pic? It looks like a young George W. Bush but I can't be certain.

Who is that in your avatar pic? It looks like a young George W. Bush but I can't be certain.



That is Don Adams portraying the character Maxwell Smart in the t.v. series Get Smart.


Ah, these young pups.



Cat

That is Don Adams portraying the character Maxwell Smart in the t.v. series Get Smart.


Ah, these young pups.



Cat


George W. Bush probably confused his shoe for the telephone a few times!
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/12/drunken_smilie.gif

You guys on the left always want to blame Wall Street entirely for the 2008 financial crisis but what about these people that signed for these bad loans? I mean they knew they couldn't afford the loans that they signed. Would you buy a car you couldn't afford?


If I knew nobody was going to come after me, you bet I would!

When you owe the bank a million dollars, you have a problem.
When you owe the bank a billion dollars, the bank has a problem.
When the banks owe the central bank a trillion dollars, everyone has a problem.

If the Street had been able to self-regulate, it would never have made those loans in the first place.  As a capitalist, the right thing to do would have been to let them - and the world with it - burn.  Given that the alternative was that credit seized up, truckers stopped getting paid, fuel stopped getting delivered, food deliveries to the cities ceased, and 72 hours later, the cities burned like post-Katrina New Orleans, I'm willing to live with a guilty conscience.  Which (plus having a sense of humor) is why I'll never qualify as a Randroid.

Ideological purity be damned, if QE1, QE2, and the manipulation of commodity prices (silver a few months ago, oil 2 weeks ago) constitutes QE3, so be it.  As long as there are markets to trade, muddling through the mess still beats the alternative of a complete reset.  I get my fill of that when I play Fallout:3 and Fallout:New Vegas.


Who is that in your avatar pic? It looks like a young George W. Bush but I can't be certain.


Missed it by that much.


I got mine. Screw everybody else.


http://i.imgur.com/WHaxS.jpg


And I want YOURS too!


http://i.imgur.com/RnuWL.jpg

Still, on behalf of what remains of capitalism, I'll take my victories while I can!  WELCOME TO THE HERD!

If the Street had been able to self-regulate, it would never have made those loans in the first place.  As a capitalist, the right thing to do would have been to let them - and the world with it - burn.  Given that the alternative was that credit seized up, truckers


You mean if "the Street" had to be capitalist, not fascist.  That is, if every bank knew if they gambled with risky loans, they'd have to eat the cost when the debtors couldn't pay.  They knew at the outset they could ransom the taxpayers for the money.  It worked for the S&L junk bond pirates!  Big government in the service of big business is the essence of fascism.
::)

I think Hunstman, Pawlenty, or Romney could beat Obama. Cain, Bachmann, or Santorum they would lose to Obama.

I think Hunstman, Pawlenty, or Romney could beat Obama. Cain, Bachmann, or Santorum they would lose to Obama.


Certainly Romney.  If the GOP wasn't tethered to an extremist ideology, they might have the since to throw their weight behind Mitt Romney who could very well beat Obama, especially if the unemployment rate remains above 7%.  Romney is a commie pinko as far as they're concerned because he implemented a state run health care plan in Massachusetts.

Certainly Romney.  If the GOP wasn't tethered to an extremist ideology, they might have the since to throw their weight behind Mitt Romney who could very well beat Obama, especially if the unemployment rate remains above 7%.  Romney is a commie pinko as far as they're concerned because he implemented a state run health care plan in Massachusetts.
The conservative base of the GOP just hates RomneyCare and Mitt is an East Coast Moderate and you know how the GOP feels about moderates these days.