So Paul Ryan and Co. want to cut spending by 4.3 trillion and cut taxes on the rich by 4.2 trillion in order to cut the deficit.  Makes sense to me!  Part of that will come by ending Medicare as we know it.  So where are all those folks who were screaming "don't touch my Medicare" during the health care reform debate?

I've heard the propsal. I like the cut on coorperate tax from 35% to 25% because we have the highest tax rate of any country I think.

The GOP makes no sense though if they want to cut taxes for the rich but give seniors a voucher for private insurance. Lets be serious no private insurance company is gonna want to take seniors. If the GOP votes on the Ryan Plan straight up the Dems will be power in again. Even swing voters know the Ryan Plan makes things worse just like the Dems healthcare plan I think makes things worse because of more government people want their hand on everybody's healthcare decisions.

I;m just sick of both parties at this point I mean with the GOP its tax cuts for the rich and the assault on planned parenthood. With the Dems is massive deficits. I mean the Dems just want to create job for everybody for humanitarian reasons. You just can't do that. Its just not possible. I miss the Clinton years.

So Paul Ryan and Co. want to cut spending by 4.3 trillion and cut taxes on the rich by 4.2 trillion in order to cut the deficit.  Makes sense to me!  Part of that will come by ending Medicare as we know it.  So where are all those folks who were screaming "don't touch my Medicare" during the health care reform debate?


Karma.  It's not the non-defense-nor-homeland-security-nondiscretionary spending, it's the bloody entitlements.  And the older generation is damned if they're gonna die before raping the younger and middle-aged generations for every penny we still have.  They outnumber and outvote us, so hey, it's not like we can complain.  Democracy sucks, but it beats the alternative...

Social Security and Medicare aren't real entitlements.  You don't have a right to them.  They can be reduced by legislative fiat just as any other pork barrel programme can.  The only difference between "entitlements" and "discretionary" expenses is that the laws that fund the entitlement programmes explicitly state that no further vote is needed for the programme to get more funding every year, but that discretionary programmes must have a vote.  That's it.  One sentence of legal code that can be added - or removed - with a single vote.

For what it's worth, I'd be willing to give up the 15% capital gains rate if it meant that mortgage interest was no longer deductible and the top tax rate was 25-28%.  Revenue-neutral, a simpler tax code, and the mortgage deduction prompted a lot of renters to buy homes they couldn't afford.  (When you lose your job, your income drops, and the value of the mortgage deduction drops with it.)  

The Canadians - who never had tax deductions on mortgage interest - had a small real estate bubble in the oilfields of Alberta, but it didn't take down their entire banking system.  Oddly enough, by not having Medicare funding $5000+ "privately"-made Hoverounds for their morbidly-obese population, and by cutting out the middleman of the insurance industry, they also managed to fund universal health care and spend less (as a percentage of GDP) on health care than Americans.

(Why yes, I will be watching what appears to be a spectacularly bad movie tomorrow night.  It's tax day, and I'll do it on principle.)

Oddly enough, by not having Medicare funding $5000+ "privately"-made Hoverounds for their morbidly-obese population, and by cutting out the middleman of the insurance industry, they also managed to fund universal health care and spend less (as a percentage of GDP) on health care than Americans.

Doesn't *everybody* spend less as a percentage of GDP on healthcare than Americans? (by quite a large amount, IIRC)

The American (lack of a) health care system is a result of corrupted lobbying practices by giant insurance companies.  The insurance companies pay politicians to do their bidding.  There's ideological ruse in the form of "federalism" and "liberty," but corruption is at the bottom of it all.  Rep. Ryan's plan is D.O.A.

Anyway, we could solve a good deal of these budgetary crises if we let the Bush tax cuts expire and go back to the rates we had under Clinton.
::)

So Paul Ryan and Co. want to cut spending by 4.3 trillion and cut taxes on the rich by 4.2 trillion in order to cut the deficit.  Makes sense to me!  Part of that will come by ending Medicare as we know it.  So where are all those folks who were screaming "don't touch my Medicare" during the health care reform debate?


That's odd.  I thought that if the legislation does not pass, that taxes on the rich people would INCREASE.  You mean that the Repub bill would actually reduce tax rates from where they are now?  How much are they going to be reduced? ???

The American (lack of a) health care system is a result of corrupted lobbying practices by giant insurance companies.  The insurance companies pay politicians to do their bidding.  There's ideological ruse in the form of "federalism" and "liberty," but corruption is at the bottom of it all.  Rep. Ryan's plan is D.O.A.

Anyway, we could solve a good deal of these budgetary crises if we let the Bush tax cuts expire and go back to the rates we had under Clinton.
::)


Do you want the OTHER Bush Tax Cuts to expire too? ???

By the way, Loooooong before the health insurance industry existed to any large degree, there was no such thing as government sponsored health care or, for that matter, employer sponsored health care.  In the 1920's, American hospitals started to offer "membership" programs similar to what we now know as HMO's.  Prior to that, most insurance work was life insurance or disability insurance.

During WWII, the government dictated wage freezes, so employing corporations got around this by offering health policies as a way to skirt the wage-freeze rules.

Doesn't *everybody* spend less as a percentage of GDP on healthcare than Americans? (by quite a large amount, IIRC)


Pretty much.  The US handicaps itself because the insurance companies have bought themselves a place as middlemen between every transaction between a doctor and patient.

Health care reform was never on the agenda - we had health insurace reform - and unsurprisingly, the health insurance industry got exactly what it paid for: a legislatively-mandated increase in its revenues. 

Here's $15,000, now go buy your own insurance, old man!
What? You got diabetes and heart failure?  Tough cookies for you, pops!
:D

Pretty much.  The US handicaps itself because the insurance companies have bought themselves a place as middlemen between every transaction between a doctor and patient.

Health care reform was never on the agenda - we had health insurace reform - and unsurprisingly, the health insurance industry got exactly what it paid for: a legislatively-mandated increase in its revenues. 

Thank you - that sounds like a perfect summary of what from this side of the pond seemed like a remarkably obtuse discussion.

So.. what you need is some kind of surgical removal of insurance companies, which will never happen because said insurance companies have so much money & political power...

The Ryan budget, which has now passed the House on a partisan vote, attacks more than Medicare.  Social Security is under the gun, as is support for education, infrastructure, etc, everything but the military.  And, of course, it includes a tax cut for the rich, deeper even than the Bush cut.  But as Cal Coolidge said "If the spirit of liberty should vanish in other parts of the union and support of our institution should languish, it could all be replenished from the generous store held by the people of this brave little state of Vermont".

The Ryan budget, which has now passed the House on a partisan vote, attacks more than Medicare.  Social Security is under the gun, as is support for education, infrastructure, etc, everything but the military.  And, of course, it includes a tax cut for the rich, deeper even than the Bush cut.  But as Cal Coolidge said "If the spirit of liberty should vanish in other parts of the union and support of our institution should languish, it could all be replenished from the generous store held by the people of this brave little state of Vermont".



And Bernie & Peter are REALLY speaking out against this ridiculous pandering to the mega-rich & corporations. Haven't heard anything from Pat lately.


Cat

And Bernie & Peter are REALLY speaking out against this ridiculous pandering to the mega-rich & corporations. Haven't heard anything from Pat lately. Cat
Pat is busy with being head of the Senate Judiciary Committee.

I've heard the propsal. I like the cut on coorperate tax from 35% to 25% because we have the highest tax rate of any country I think.



The tax as it appears on paper, and the taxes they actually pay after the delicately engineered loopholes are two totally different things.

The tax as it appears on paper, and the taxes they actually pay after the delicately engineered loopholes are two totally different things.

That is true. The Ryan plan and even The Van Hollen Plan(The Dems budget proposal)does get rid of the loopholes pretty much I think though.

That is true. The Ryan plan and even The Van Hollen Plan(The Dems budget proposal)does get rid of the loopholes pretty much I think though.


The Ryan plan CUTS corporate taxes, which, by the way, are not the highest in the world.  You want high taxes go to Sweden.  Did you know that many of  our largest corps. pay NO taxes, like GE?

The Ryan plan CUTS corporate taxes, which, by the way, are not the highest in the world.  You want high taxes go to Sweden.  Did you know that many of  our largest corps. pay NO taxes, like GE?
Yeah your correct Carlos but we have still have the second highest corporate tax rate of any country next to Japan but Japan is cutting their corporate tax rate soon I heard.

Yes I know GE payed no tax.