As you all know, I'm usually steering clear of the politics section. But this... is the exception to the rule.

My condolences to all those affected by the shooting.

So awful.  My thoughts and prayers are with her family and the families of the other victims. 

Why can't people realize that there are better ways of disagreeing instead of resorting to violence.

I just read that the reports of her being dead are wrong and that she is in surgery for a gun shot to the head and is in critical condition.  :-\\

Sad.

I just read that the reports of her being dead are wrong and that she is in surgery for a gun shot to the head and is in critical condition.   :-\\


This indeed seems to be the case. I've altered the original post accordingly.

http://i.imgur.com/Uw4RS.jpg

Sarah Palin, classy lady that she is, had her in the "cross-hairs" on her map during the '10 election... surprised this happened?  I'm surprised it didn't happen sooner really.

reports still indicate the congresswoman are still alive, but I would imagine her chances for survival are low.

Either way it isn't good, all the way around.  The Palin crowd is full of loose cannons and she fed them. 

Way too early to blame this crime on anybody... except for the scum bag who perpetrated it.  Too bad Jack Ruby is not around to give this a**hole the swift justice that our own judicial process will not deliver.

Way too early to blame this crime on anybody... except for the scum bag who perpetrated it.  Too bad Jack Ruby is not around to give this a**hole the swift justice that our own judicial process will not deliver.



Thing is...everyone with any sense saw something like this coming.  She put up pictures on her website of Democrats whom she wanted out of office with a crosshair across their faces, Gabrielle Giffords was one of those faces.  People told Palin that this was a dangerous and irresponsible but she left it up because she is a flake. For anyone in her position to, in any way make, light of political assassination is deplorable.

A 9 year old was killed in this tragedy. I really hope Sister Sarah has trouble sleeping-but she won't. She is too stupid to realize what she has done.



Cat

Gabby Giffords-she actually voted for the Health Care Bill and won in a R+5 district.

I'm no Palin fan but you liberals actually want to blame Palin? I don;t know about that. I can say more but I don't want to get into it.

More than anything Jared Laughner is a nutty Libertarian-esque extremist.  He is probably part of the Palin crowd, but his delusions seem to be purely of his own design.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Classitup10

My greatest fear?  Some crazy Tea Party flake is responsible for the shooting.

I'm no Palin fan but you liberals actually want to blame Palin? I don;t know about that. I can say more but I don't want to get into it.



The person who did this IS responsible and I hope they are punished to the full extent of the law.

The thing is, the likes of Sarah Palin, Glenn Beck, Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hennity, and others like to incite others to violence and then they are shocked that people would actually use violence. There are many wacko crazies out there who do not need much prodding to pick up a weapon to blow people away. You saw that when O'Reilly kept calling Dr. Tiller "Tiller the baby killer" and then he was shocked when someone assassinated him. It is reckless & unconscionable for people with a public platform to use that platform to suggest violence-because there are wackos out there who will do it. Personally, I would like to see these people held responsible-like calling "Fire" in a crowded theatre.




Cat

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIsq5IP1ktQ&feature=channel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eF5yv9TtOi4

http://i53.tinypic.com/mcuh6d.png

Gabrielle Giffords Town Hall: Gun Left Behind

Smash Sensation: Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords Isn't The Only One With Broken Windows

gee... I can't begin to wonder why we might not blame Palin and her whacky followers... seems like the Tea Party is quite active in Tucson

Buffolo Springfield - For What it's WorthWhat a field-day for the heat
A thousand people in the street
Singing songs and carrying signs
Mostly say, hooray for our side
It's time we stop, hey, what's that sound
Everybody look what's going down
Paranoia strikes deep
Into your life it will creep
It starts when you're always afraid
You step out of line, the man come and take you awayI bring these lyrics up because in my honest opinion, they represent this situation IF one of the Tea Party wackos did this. It's time to stop "hooraying for our side" and stand together. Screw Republicans and screw Democrats. I'm not a political person at all, but I know stupid when I see stupid and all of these opinionated "newscasters" are screwing up this country. Along with all the terrible Congressmen and Congresswomen who spread hate against the other party.

I was so shocked to hear about this. The man was only 22 years old, the same age as me.

I think he's mentally ill though.

A 9 year old was killed in this tragedy. I really hope Sister Sarah has trouble sleeping-but she won't. She is too stupid to realize what she has done.


This is what happens when you whip armed people up into illogical frenzies over petty politics.
:(

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iq38Nnf4pOw

The scrubbing has begun of his online persona already...

He had a facebook profile, but it was taken down approximately 4pm EST. One of the 2 groups he had listed was the "Tea Bag Patriots".

Also, Beck and Palin videos have been removed.

one of his online profiles mentioned Marxist ramblings about taking money away from the rich... but then you'd find him complaining about the Gold standard (a right-leaning issue).

so yeah... no surprise there.  from what I've seen come out so far, he was plain old nuts fluttering from one fringe to the next and the last one he landed with happened to be the Tea Baggers who have been using rhetoric about taking up arms to fight the government for the past two years.  Sounds like a perfect breeding ground for this to happen.

I'm pretty suprised this guy is 22

as Michael Moore put it so well...

If a Detroit Muslim put a map on the web w/crosshairs on 20 pols, then 1 of them got shot, where would he be sitting right now? Just asking.

full listing of his nutty ramblings here:

http://www.boingboing.net/2011/01/08/youtube-videos-of-ar.html

definitely a screw loose

The 9 year old girl who was killed was born on 9/11/01!  :o  I'm sure some of you already know this though.

She was born on a tragic day and died on a tragic day. Talk about gloomy.  :-\\

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iq38Nnf4pOw


Thanks for posting this, Michael (tia) posted this on Facebook and it says all that needs to be said.  :-\\

http://pol.moveon.org/debatenothate/?id=25758-1416372-TgOvu8x&t=2


http://www.credoaction.com/campaign/palin_violence/?rc=homepage



Cat

Jared Lee Loughner, the alleged shooter of Rep. Gabrielle Giffords and others on Saturday, may have ties to anti-Semitic, anti-immigration hate group American Renaissance, according to a leaked memo from the Department of Homeland Security.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/09/jared-loughner-youtube-videos-_n_806370.html

Jared Lee Loughner, the alleged shooter of Rep. Gabrielle Giffords and others on Saturday, may have ties to anti-Semitic, anti-immigration hate group American Renaissance, according to a leaked memo from the Department of Homeland Security.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/09/jared-loughner-youtube-videos-_n_806370.html


What's this?  Why, according to team Palin on FB this guy is a communist liberal ::)

full listing of his nutty ramblings here:


Glad to see everyone here is well on top of things during my absence.  

The tautological "reasoning", repeated "arguments" in which he proves himself incapable of differentiating from a premise and an axiom - is the biggest hint here.

I'm going with schizophrenia.  I'm no shrink, but whether it's Birmingham 6 sampling Charlie Manson in A Good Day, or Front 242 sampling Jim Jones in Welcome to Paradise, I know it when I hear it.

The 9 year old girl who was killed was born on 9/11/01!  :o  I'm sure some of you already know this though.

She was born on a tragic day and died on a tragic day. Talk about gloomy.  :-\\


And she's the grand daughter of former Philadelphia Phillies manager Dallas Green who won the world series. Saw it on ESPN

Glad to see everyone here is well on top of things during my absence.  

The tautological "reasoning", repeated "arguments" in which he proves himself incapable of differentiating from a premise and an axiom - is the biggest hint here.

I'm going with schizophrenia.  I'm no shrink, but whether it's Birmingham 6 sampling Charlie Manson in A Good Day, or Front 242 sampling Jim Jones in Welcome to Paradise, I know it when I hear it.


Apparently the grammar thing is from some other nutjob David Wayne Miller that claims you don't have to pay taxes if you do all your business with a hypen in your name if it's not on your birth certificate.  There's a whole "language" invented for fighting the government in the courts (that has failed spectacularly over the years). 

I was so shocked to hear about this.

So was I. It really is a sad thing. :\'( :\'(



I think he's mentally ill though.

Yeah, he certainly seems like it. I was just finding out details about this guy on the TV news this morning.

The 9 year old girl who was killed was born on 9/11/01!  :o  I'm sure some of you already know this though.

She was born on a tragic day and died on a tragic day. Talk about gloomy.  :-\\

Yeah I know what you mean.

Glad to see everyone here is well on top of things during my absence.  

The tautological "reasoning", repeated "arguments" in which he proves himself incapable of differentiating from a premise and an axiom - is the biggest hint here.

I'm going with schizophrenia.  I'm no shrink, but whether it's Birmingham 6 sampling Charlie Manson in A Good Day, or Front 242 sampling Jim Jones in Welcome to Paradise, I know it when I hear it.


I was thinking of Quite Unusual.
::)

Why are people surprised at his age?  Hinckley and Chapman weren't much older.  Loughner was the perfect age profile.  Adult privileges with an adolescent dissociative brain.  Look, if you let loopy 22-year-olds carry automatic weapons, WTF do you expect is going to happen? 
>:(

BTW, very few individuals with mental illnesses such as schizophrenia or dissociative personality disorders ever become violent.  When they do, however, loooook out! Helter Skelter!!!

I was thinking of Quite Unusual.
::)

Why are people surprised at his age?  Hinckley and Chapman weren't much older.  Loughner was the perfect age profile.  Adult privileges with an adolescent dissociative brain.  Look, if you let loopy 22-year-olds carry automatic weapons, WTF do you expect is going to happen? 
>:(

BTW, very few individuals with mental illnesses such as schizophrenia or dissociative personality disorders ever become violent.  When they do, however, loooook out! Helter Skelter!!!


Everyone decries(vilifies) young black males killing each other with guns.  What is with young white males getting guns and taking out everyone in sight, friend or enemy, young or old.  What is the common thread?  Young males, what is the story?

I was thinking of Quite Unusual.
::)

Why are people surprised at his age?  Hinckley and Chapman weren't much older.  Loughner was the perfect age profile.  Adult privileges with an adolescent dissociative brain.  Look, if you let loopy 22-year-olds carry automatic weapons, WTF do you expect is going to happen? 
>:(

BTW, very few individuals with mental illnesses such as schizophrenia or dissociative personality disorders ever become violent.  When they do, however, loooook out! Helter Skelter!!!


It's just a matter of adding psychological records to background checks for guns.  If they had done that, Jared would have had to try to get a gun on the black market.

I'm no Palin fan but you liberals actually want to blame Palin? I don;t know about that. I can say more but I don't want to get into it.


The Congresswoman in crosshairs on a Palin piece of media. Enough said.  My Mother adores Palin and is a member of the tea party.  Listening to her I can see why this would happen

A little bit about the family is starting to filter out and it doesn't sound all that healthy.  It appears the family may have had mental issues and any they had exacerbated any issues the man may have had.

http://www.aolnews.com/2011/01/11/neighbor-jared-loughners-parents-are-hurting/?icid=maing|main5|dl1|sec1_lnk5|35784

Randy(Loughner) married Amy Totman in 1986. He became a stay-at-home father after Jared was born in 1988, while Amy worked for the county, according to ABC News. Neighbors said the Loughner household became more isolated from them as Jared, an only child, grew older.


"There was times when we'd be out with other neighbor kids, and Jared wouldn't be allowed out. He'd be watching from the window or door," Rick Dahlstrom told ABC. "They all became very isolated. Randy was isolated, Amy wasn't out anymore. Something changed. They just kept to themselves."


...(Wayne)Smith, who has lived across the street since 1972, told the Journal he didn't even know the family's last name until after Saturday's shootings.

So awful.  My thoughts and prayers are with her family and the families of the other victims. 

Why can't people realize that there are better ways of disagreeing instead of resorting to violence.


I know, and I'll admit...I can be a Troll if you rub me the wrong way.

I wrote a complaint on YouTube on DeviantArt's "Complaints" department and all I got were Sarcastibitches saying "Call a Whambulence" and "Butt Hurt Patrol".

Back on topic...that seems to be the first big news of the year and I feel sorry for the family that lost their 9-year-old daughter. :\'(

I rather think it as a very squalid sordid isolated issue.

It would be way too pity and shame you're going to lose the American dream of liberty and peace from within.

History tells us always the same story.  One man, old or young, one shot to a king or a gentleman is enough to end up a prosperous term.

Don't you remember ? Too many times it's been happening. 
One shot starts a war, the worse illness of mankind.

Terrorism is still more killer from within, I know it well, since we have this plague from the beginning of our short democracy.
It's like a wildfire hard to blow out when the flames spread high and around.

I hope the Tea Party don't stab his paling at crosshair of democracy and keep their heads together to all Americans colors and people gather.

Sad and sorry for the souls went beyond heaven's door.

I was thinking of Quite Unusual.


Naw, those things are way too heavy to easily lug around :)  

Look, if you let loopy 22-year-olds carry automatic weapons

*TWEET* Misuse of firearms terminology, five-yard penalty, still third down.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_L52qeI-j4jM/Sr0k4ki3_iI/AAAAAAAAA0o/7oNaOb3eMyU/s800/journalists-guide-to-guns-1.jpg

Although for once, the semi-automatic weapon employed it really was a Glock.


BTW, very few individuals with mental illnesses such as schizophrenia or dissociative personality disorders ever become violent.  When they do, however, loooook out! Helter Skelter!!!


Pretty much that.  Treatable with meds, but the catch-22 of it is how do you convince someone who's in a delusional state that they need help in the first place?

Check out this little gem from 1989 - MC 900 Foot Jesus, Born with Monkey Asses (Youtube video is SFW cover art, audio has lots of naughty words, but a really funky backbeat :).

I don't have a sample source for this, and if anyone recognizes it (from a movie, or some sort of psychiatry textbook/course materials?) I'd love to know where he got that stuff.  Starts out with a somewhat-agitated patient not wanting a needle, and then the delusions kick in, and then it gets weird.  And then it just rambles off the the deep end.  What's different is that you get 5 minutes of it, bouncing incoherently from topic to topic, and much like other schizoid rants, all the words form English sentences, but they still make no sense.  Because baboons have their own female species.

Congresswoman Giffords will probably live, but she'll be lucky to ever be functional.  Remember what happened to James Brady.  So...the Loughner family says they're sorry and they want their privacy.  Maybe the kid's dad will write a book about Jared the way Lionel Dahmer wrote a book about Jeffrey Dahmer.  The difference is Jared was living at home.  If your kid is mentally disturbed and collecting guns, you have the obligation to interfere.  Once an individual is criminally insane like Jared, you don't convince him he needs treatment, you force it on him.

There's a lot of talk about how they've cut mental health services to the point where Jared Loughner couldn't get mandatory intervention.  I don't believe that for a second.  

I can totally identify with mental illness.  I comes and goes in my own life.  I can't identify with wanting to hurt other people.  That's a whole different kind of mental illness from what I am familiar with.  Evidently, Mr. Loughner had a lot of trouble adapting to life.  I'm not ready to ridicule him just for that.  I don't even know if we can say Loughner was responsible for actions.  I doubt the court will find him legally insane; however, his obsessions were beyond his control.  If I had a kid as disturbed as Jared, I would be vigilant.  If he started exhibiting paranoid behavior AND collecting guns, I'd call the cops.  I don't think the family exercised due care.

Furthermore, let's not blame the massacre on Glenn Beck and Sarah Palin.  Please.  That's cheap.  I have zero respect for either one of those characters, but we've always had gun-happy lunatics from Luby's in 1991 to Virginia Tech in 2007.  Blaming the media will only result in suppression of free speech.

I'm sure Giffords may have to resign.

And as for "Blame Palin" and sheesh...it's just nothing but mud slinging on both sides of the isle.

Thank God I decided to become a Libertarian!

.
Furthermore, let's not blame the massacre on Glenn Beck and Sarah Palin.  Please.  That's cheap.  I have zero respect for either one of those characters, but we've always had gun-happy lunatics from Luby's in 1991 to Virginia Tech in 2007.  Blaming the media will only result in suppression of free speech.


Blame? That's too harsh, but inflammatory speech is inflammatory speech.  Remember "Tiller the baby killer"?

Blame? That's too harsh, but inflammatory speech is inflammatory speech.  Remember "Tiller the baby killer"?


I'm inclined to agree with you on that one.  Cross-hairs over congressional districts is pretty bad too.  My point was Loughner should never have had those weapons in the first place and the state of Arizona ought to re-examine its point of view on gun rights.  If the Framers saw those automatic weapons and saw who we would let carry them, they might have added a few paragraphs to the Second Amendment.  I wouldn't let that Loughner maniac have a BB gun!
::)

I'm inclined to agree with you on that one.  Cross-hairs over congressional districts is pretty bad too.  My point was Loughner should never have had those weapons in the first place and the state of Arizona ought to re-examine its point of view on gun rights.  If the Framers saw those automatic weapons and saw who we would let carry them, they might have added a few paragraphs to the Second Amendment.  I wouldn't let that Loughner maniac have a BB gun!
::)


(So I suppose Photoshopping a ball gag onto his district would be right out, right?)

"Congressman Bob Brady (D-Pa) says he'll introduce a law to make it a crime to publish Web site that places "crosshairs" on a Congressional member, in a reaction to a map that appeared on Sarah Palin's Web site."
   - Bob, you're missing the point of what it means to be an American.

But for every wannabe-censor like Bob Brady, there's a guy like this.  A guy who, a day or two after his own daughter was killed in the attack, can go on national TV and say this:

"...in a free society, we're going to be subject to people like this. I prefer this to the alternative."
   - John Green, an American.

http://www.stagepresents.co.uk/acatalog/JE815.JPG

Every time I want to facepalm or headdesk at the tragicomedy that's become of our country, someone shows me it still kicks ass.  John Green's paid a hell of a lot more than his buck-oh-five.

http://www.themadmusicarchive.com/song_details.aspx?SongID=6882

It say "Play Sample" but that is the entire song.



Cat

(So I suppose Photoshopping a ball gag onto his district would be right out, right?)

"Congressman Bob Brady (D-Pa) says he'll introduce a law to make it a crime to publish Web site that places "crosshairs" on a Congressional member, in a reaction to a map that appeared on Sarah Palin's Web site."



Steve King (R-Iowa) introduced legislation to make it illegal to carry firearms within 1000 feet of a congressman whereas Louie Gohmert (R-TX) wants to be personally armed as a congressman.  Hell, at least Gohmert is consistent with the Republican gun philosophy.  King is suddenly frightened of guns because he realizes the can -- gulp -- KILL PEOPLE. 

The Bob Brady Bill, should he introduce it, stands no chance on First Amendment grounds.  Anyway, those weren't crosshairs, they were surveyor's marks, right?  And then there's Sarah P.  Former 1/2 term governor of Alaska, failed VP candidate, who says "taking up arms" means "to vote."

What a bunch of kooks, eh?
:D

I'm sure Giffords may have to resign.

And as for "Blame Palin" and sheesh...it's just nothing but mud slinging on both sides of the isle.

Thank God I decided to become a Libertarian!


Giffords could resign if she wants, but couldn't be forced to.  It may come down to the policy of the Arizona, would a successor be appointed, or would there be a special election.  If the governor could appoint someone and that person be anyone, including someone of a different party then the dems may want to hold on to the seat, even if there is a no vote on it.

As for libertarians, what makes you think they don't sling as much if not more?

Cross-hairs over congressional districts is pretty bad too. 

You are so right.  Putting things like crosshairs and targets in political ads is totally uncalled for.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_PVyDmTkfk6s/TSjwB5mkx5I/AAAAAAAAEGs/J1JnpoiOWM4/s400/DLC-Targeting-map.gif

Giffords could resign if she wants, but couldn't be forced to.  It may come down to the policy of the Arizona, would a successor be appointed, or would there be a special election.  If the governor could appoint someone and that person be anyone, including someone of a different party then the dems may want to hold on to the seat, even if there is a no vote on it.

As for libertarians, what makes you think they don't sling as much if not more?
Yes I think there would probably be a special election.

Yes I think there would probably be a special election.


It appears her husband is going to step down from the space station, maybe he will run, take over the seat.  I would bet that they are ruminating on that one right now.

It appears her husband is going to step down from the space station, maybe he will run, take over the seat.  I would bet that they are ruminating on that one right now.


It's actually her brother-in-law who's on the space station.  Her husband (both brothers are astronauts) has probably relinquished his slot on the last Shuttle flight in order to support her.

Much as she'd probably have told him to go fly one last time, NASA don't work that way.  If he's with her for the next few weeks, he can't train, and if he can't train during the weeks leading up to his flight, he can't (and shouldn't) fly, so his replacement is on deck.

Tough call either way.  I hope she regains enough cognitive/communicative ability in time to make an informed "Dude, let the other guy fly, and stick around and help me through physio/rehab" or "Dude, I'll be OK for a few more weeks, go fly one last time" decision with her husband before the schedule makes the decision for them.

You are so right.  Putting things like crosshairs and targets in political ads is totally uncalled for.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_PVyDmTkfk6s/TSjwB5mkx5I/AAAAAAAAEGs/J1JnpoiOWM4/s400/DLC-Targeting-map.gif


Those are sites of, uh, department stores.  Yeah, that's the ticket!
;D

You are so right.  Putting things like crosshairs and targets in political ads is totally uncalled for.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_PVyDmTkfk6s/TSjwB5mkx5I/AAAAAAAAEGs/J1JnpoiOWM4/s400/DLC-Targeting-map.gif


Did any shootings result in this?  Democrats obviously aren't the literalist type.

It's actually her brother-in-law who's on the space station.  Her husband (both brothers are astronauts) has probably relinquished his slot on the last Shuttle flight in order to support her.

Much as she'd probably have told him to go fly one last time, NASA don't work that way.  If he's with her for the next few weeks, he can't train, and if he can't train during the weeks leading up to his flight, he can't (and shouldn't) fly, so his replacement is on deck.

Tough call either way.  I hope she regains enough cognitive/communicative ability in time to make an informed "Dude, let the other guy fly, and stick around and help me through physio/rehab" or "Dude, I'll be OK for a few more weeks, go fly one last time" decision with her husband before the schedule makes the decision for them.



What I meant was he would step down from taking his position on the next flight, which is the last flight, that he is scheduled to be on.  It sounds like he may go, this is to be the last space mission for a long, long time and what good is being an astronaut once that happens.

I hope that he doesn't fly, and that if it turns out, as well it might, that she can't conyinue in the house, that he demand to be appointed in her place.

as a sufferer of mental illness, and having read loughner's internet posts, i dont think he's truly accountable for his actions. i think he should be acquitted by reason of insanity but kept in an asylum his whole life or until they find a way to cure his scizophrenia or whatever he has.

I think most people agree with you on that, but not aquitted by reason of insanity.  If he is acquitted he can go home. He can be found guilty by reason of insanity, in which case he can be sent to a asylum for incarceration and treatment.

I think most people agree with you on that, but not aquitted by reason of insanity.  If he is acquitted he can go home. He can be found guilty by reason of insanity, in which case he can be sent to a asylum for incarceration and treatment.


okay thanx for clarifying that, i just mean i dont think he is criminally responsible but should be held in custody because it's not safe for him to be out. i do feel sorry for him though.

as a sufferer of mental illness, and having read loughner's internet posts, i dont think he's truly accountable for his actions. i think he should be acquitted by reason of insanity but kept in an asylum his whole life or until they find a way to cure his scizophrenia or whatever he has.


I don't think he is any more mentally ill than Glenn Beck, Michelle Bachman, and others I could name (but its Feb).  He's crazy like a fox.  No sympathy from me.

Last reports I heard, she is making great strides and improving daily.  A brave and strong woman - hats off to her, and may she continue to improve.