David Blunkett has resigned as Home Secretary.

This is good news all around, not only was this guy just eating away at our rights.. you know odd things like trial by jury, things like that, but he also had an affair, an illigitimate child and pushed through a Visa application for his Lover's Nanny (child minder).

Basically he was a very naughy boy, also being a staunch ally of Tony Blair with any luck Gordon Brown (who basically anybody with any sense in England wants as P.M) could consolidate his power and make a bid for Party leadership sometime in the near future.

Let's just go over it one more time.. He abused his position of power.. he basically did things that our (flimsy) constitution says are illegal and he had an affair. I can't see how this isn't a great day for British Politics.

Isn't it funny how our illustrious leaders on both sides of the pond keep picking these loosers?  I guess its because they are loosers too.  Birds (and Brits and Yanks) of a feather...

Isn't it funny how our illustrious leaders on both sides of the pond keep picking these loosers? I guess its because they are loosers too. Birds (and Brits and Yanks) of a feather...


We have a slightly different thing going on here.. because before Blair was elected the first time, he said to his Chancellor that he would be in office for two terms at the max and then support his chancellor.. Gordon Brown (who is a much better, more centre of the line chap). Anyway Blair bullsheeshted him..

So there is a split around 40% of the cabinet supports Brown and around 60% supports Blair.. however David Blunkett was one of Blair's top guys so with any luck this will change the balance of power.

And yes i agree they are losers!

Ah! I didn't realise you wrote a thread about David Blunkett, Andy.

My main concern is not that he had an affair (politicians have personal lives too) but that he rushed a Visa for his mistress. That is not on.

I just plain didn't like him.. he epitomised 'Nu Labour'... Yeah we are liberal and progressive.. yeah we want fairness and equality... *voiceover* fairness and equality illegal under 'Nu Labour'

Re: Bad Visa..1.. Being a Jerk..2 .. Affair.. 3 Your Out!

btw it's you're  ;)

Maybe i did it intentionally..  ::)

My your, you're and the other one must just be the highlight of everybody's day huh.. only surpassed by there, they're and their.

GITS!

Maybe i did it intentionally..  ::)

My your, you're and the other one must just be the highlight of everybody's day huh.. only surpassed by there, they're and their.

GITS!


We're just wating to pounce!

(I only do it because I know you love it!)

I lay awake at night wishing somebody could correct my english.

Sounds like Blunkett and Bernard Kerik ought to get together and go bowling!  What's with the immigrant lover, couldn't he get an English one?
;D

I lay awake at night wishing somebody could correct my english.


Always said you were weird

Sounds like Blunkett and Bernard Kerik ought to get together and go bowling!  What's with the immigrant lover, couldn't he get an English one?
;D


It was his lover's nanny who was the immigrant I think

It was his lover's nanny who was the immigrant I think

Oh, that's right....what a swell guy.  Wouldn't want his lover to have to get caught up in that parental responsibility thing.  Can't have that getting between you and your bit of crumpet, eh?

The woman has had something like 6 high profile affairs in the 3 years and is basically in a circuit..

Boris Johnson (another politician.. however from my party) had an affair with a colleage of her's and the colleage of her's had an affair with another guy she had an affair with. It's a sordid 's'ircle

*just wanted the alliteration

The woman has had something like 6 high profile affairs in the 3 years and is basically in a circuit..

Boris Johnson (another politician.. however from my party) had an affair with a colleage of her's and the colleage of her's had an affair with another guy she had an affair with. It's a sordid 's'ircle

*just wanted the alliteration

Aren't those guys worried about catching something going around?

Yeh... bad publicity

Yeh... bad publicity

There is only one thing worse than being talked about, and that is NOT being talked about."
--Oscar Wilde

Well.. both Blunkett & Johnson have lost there jobs.. so in this case no talk would have been better for them

In any case, I wish the Conservatives over here would comport themselves with as much levelheadedness and intelligence as the UK's. I said before in another thread that I get to meet with a lot of Brits where I work, and I once was given the privilege to converse with the Conservative MP in the Commons for Esher and Walton, Ian Taylor M.B.E., M.P. I asked him about Iraq, which he did not support, and also about the rising influence of the E.U. I asked him if he thought if there would ever be a time when the EU stood as the world's second superpower, to which he answered that Europe's contribution was mainly a cultural one, and that to be a military superpower was unlikely in his opinion. This was the first time a politician had ever given me a straight answer, and this includes Democrats. I spoke with Chet Edwards, Democratic Congressman from Texas, and asked him basically the same questions to which he gave me the usual political runaround. He gave that same runaround to everyone who asked him a question that day. I can't respect a man like that. Edwards is basically one of two things, a closet liberal trying to trick conservatives into voting for him, or vice versa... Don't like him. But Mr. Taylor was a straightforward gentleman.

In any case, I wish the Conservatives over here would comport themselves with as much levelheadedness and intelligence as the UK's. I said before in another thread that I get to meet with a lot of Brits where I work, and I once was given the privilege to converse with the Conservative MP in the Commons for Esher and Walton, Ian Taylor M.B.E., M.P. I asked him about Iraq, which he did not support, and also about the rising influence of the E.U. I asked him if he thought if there would ever be a time when the EU stood as the world's second superpower, to which he answered that Europe's contribution was mainly a cultural one, and that to be a military superpower was unlikely in his opinion. This was the first time a politician had ever given me a straight answer, and this includes Democrats. I spoke with Chet Edwards, Democratic Congressman from Texas, and asked him basically the same questions to which he gave me the usual political runaround. He gave that same runaround to everyone who asked him a question that day. I can't respect a man like that. Edwards is basically one of two things, a closet liberal trying to trick conservatives into voting for him, or vice versa... Don't like him. But Mr. Taylor was a straightforward gentleman.

The American Conservative movement is no longer "conservative," it is hard-right radical reactionary.  They've dolled a lot of it up in the trendy language of management school and snappy new buzzwords, the "conservatives" in the Republican driver's seat are totally enslaved to big money interests.  There is no America, really, only Mammon.  They will sacrifice humanity and and our habitable planet to Mammon for under the absolute short-term profit mandate of Mammon, they can do nothing else.

I am a card carrying member of the Conservative party for many reasons. Firstly they stand up for the middle classes... 'Nu Labours' thing was that they were elitist.. Bullcrap.. not at all.
See i consider myself Liberal.. so im sure you all ask.. well why not support the lib dems why not support Labour.. well Labour are now the hardline right wingers in the country, yet they still support the worst of there old Liberal ideas such as as much welfare as you want and tax the crap out of the middle classes. They are a really confuseing bunch and i don't even want to go in to it, but yes the Conservates in england are clear thinking, the main problem here is our 18-30 Demographic dosen't care about Politics and the 30-45 lived under Margaret Thatcher so don't trust a conservative government.
I'm afraid i haven't had the pleasure of meeting The Honorable Mr. Taylor however i did have the pleasure of being invited to a dinner with the shadow transport secretary and many Conservative M.P's were in attendance. My M.P Andrew Robotham (who i do a lot of volunteer work for) introuduced me to three such Gentlemen and i spoke to them all for a short time. I asked as many questions as i thought polite and 2 of them agreed with my stand on abortion, all agreed that people who are unemployed should have to do some sort of work for there welfare check (i.e picking up litter) all of them agreed with me on many, what i would consider liberal, ideas.

The impression that a lot of the public has got is they are stuck up and out of the loop... this is not true.. im sure i have rambled somewhat but a Conservative government would be the best possible thing to happen in the U.K. Anybody who has watched Prime Ministers question time can see that Michael Howard destroys Tony Blair on a fairly consitent basis.

There are no Conservatives in America, or none who hold any power. Many right wingers throw the word around trying to appeal to people who want to take a step back in time but they aren't actually conservatives.

Anybody who has watched Prime Ministers question time can see that Michael Howard destroys Tony Blair on a fairly consitent basis.



Did you take those words from me?  I said something almost exactly like that in another thread.

I was watching a debate on C-Span 2 where Michael Howard was running over Tony Blair about housing or something.  I thought Blair was smarter than that....it looked like a debate between Albert Einstein and Fred Flintstone.

Vote conservative!  Let Michael Howard show you how it's done.

LOL Bliar... no i didn't take those words from you.. just goes to show it's true though.

Howard mows him down constantly.

lived under Margaret Thatcher so don't trust a conservative government.




I thought England liked Thatcher.  She was Prime Minister longer than anybody else.

There are no Conservatives in America, or none who hold any power. Many right wingers throw the word around trying to appeal to people who want to take a step back in time but they aren't actually conservatives.

There are a few.  Certainly not big-spending, open borders Bush (though he is good on many other things.) 

But we have J.D. Hayworth from Arizona.  Tom Coburn, newly elected from Oklahoma.  Jim DeMint, a newly elected senator from South Carolina.  And, of course, Duncan Hunter, the man who tried to stop the intelligence bill because of the lack of added border security.  So we have a center-right President, with probably a certain-right Senate.  With a few RINO's (Specter, Lott,) and with a few Reagan-like conservatives like I just mentioned.

Well Thatcher is hard to pin down.. people hate her now.. and i mean hate her with a passion because she elft the country in an awful state. Her first spell was fine.. her second spell wasn't great and her third was just awful.. her own party kicked her out GW.

However the way Blair is going he looks like he is gonna do an even worse job. In England power is very very centralised.. Parliament has lost a lot of influence and is merley a checking aide now. I did a great essay on this for my politics class... and if i hand't had to format my freakin hard drive i would have stuck it up somewhere.

As they say anyway Power corrupts but absoloute power (like Bliar has) corrupts absoloutley.

The only reason I like Blair was because he had the ba**s to support America in the war in Iraq.  I have no idea what he does in England....but I like the way he talks (with that British dialect.)

Sign the petition: www.thankyoutony.com, tell Tony thanks for helping America, and not being France.

Well i give him credit for not doing a France, but i wasn't in support of the war... he bullsheeshted us.. flat out lied.. somewhat like GW did..

Now young men are coming back here dead or in the case of my cousins friend.. with no legs. Yeah thanks tony

The only reason I like Blair was because he had the ba**s to support America in the war in Iraq.  I have no idea what he does in England....but I like the way he talks (with that British dialect.)


We in England have no idea what he does either...!!

Anyway back to 'bonking Blunkett' - as many cynics (and we've got plenty) have pointed out, if it were a high ranking Tory or Liberal doing a bit of sleaze-mongering (which did eventually bring down the last Conservative government), you'd never hear the end of it...but as it was one of Tone's pals, it was all very much played down from the start - 'A private matter' was Downing Street's official line, until the crap really did hit the fan...

I wouldn't weep too much about him or Boris 'losing their jobs', Andy - both are still MPs, and are still raking the cash in...

oh im not worried about Boris.. it's just he is such a nice chap and it is shame to see the press hound him..

But you make an excellent point.. whilst 'Nu Labour' is in power there will be two levels of justice.. Archer is the perfect example

oh im not worried about Boris.. it's just he is such a nice chap and it is shame to see the press hound him..

But you make an excellent point.. whilst 'Nu Labour' is in power there will be two levels of justice.. Archer is the perfect example


Archer? Ol' Jeffrey? Heh! Without a doubt a huge slimeball, but being incarcerated in Lincoln nick was most probably a knee-jerk 'let's teach him a lesson' reaction...

You can do less time for murder these days...!

Well all Archer did was lie and he was given four years. Prescott assaulted a Journalist.. and what happened... bugger all. Now i am no fan of the press.. but it just goes to show, two levels of justice.

Well all Archer did was lie and he was given four years. Prescott assaulted a Journalist.. and what happened... bugger all. Now i am no fan of the press.. but it just goes to show, two levels of justice.


Not a journalist, but a member of the public who threw an egg at him (and it was probably the highlight of the last election campaign) - rather than a severe reprimand from His Nibs, what did Tone actually say?

With a trademark display of hands, his exact words were, 'John's John'...(!)

And under the carpet it went...!!

ah yes not a journalist.. forgive me for that oops.

Yeh and he said John's John...


Well Shipman's Shipman

Well all Archer did was lie and he was given four years. Prescott assaulted a Journalist.. and what happened... bugger all. Now i am no fan of the press.. but it just goes to show, two levels of justice.

Archer committed what the judge called "the worst case of perjury in my experience" - he lied, got other people to lie for him, and was awarded "damages" of £½M because of it.  You could call it theft and fraud, too.  Prescott, OTOH, did little more than happens up and down the country without anyone getting prosecuted: you can bet that the guy he hit went to a doctor to see if there was enough damage to try suing for damages... one punch doth not a GBH make.  Funnily enough, I watched that very episode last night in a "best of HIGNFY" video I was given as a Christmas present...

That's not two standards of justice - I'd say justice was pretty much done: after all, the egg-thrower wasn't prosecuted, either.

This guy sounds like a certain person who was our 'fearless leader' from 1992 to 2000...the one and only Bill Clinton!!

Slick Willie needed to learn:

Doing the ahem...horzontal bop with a jailbait White House intern is a no-no

Doing it AND LYING ABOUT IT TO CONGRESS gets one in deep doo-doo!

This guy sounds like a certain person who was our 'fearless leader' from 1992 to 2000...the one and only Bill Clinton!!

Archer was (and is) a total slimeball who was running for Mayor of London when the truth came out: one of his (ex-) friends tried to warn the Tory party quietly to avoid scandal.. but when they ignored him and went on supporting Archole, he decided that going public was a better option than having a such a self-centred schemer running London.

Thing is, he was an extremely good fundraiser for the Tories, and they didn't want to lose him. 

One other thing he got let off was a charge of insider-dealing, when he bought £250k worth of shares (in Anglia television, IIRC) only to sell them a couple of days later for £330k after a takeover bid was announced... and the court accepted that he didn't talk to his wife about company business - she was a director at the time.

This page gives a brief précis about some of his other falsehoods.  Slick Willie simply doesn't come close ;)

Oh i don't debate that Archer wasn't a complete Liar... However i like his politics.

Vote conservative!  Let Michael Howard show you how it's done.


I can't believe you can delude yourself enough to think that Dubya is a "center-right" president? Just sayin'. But I hope you at least realise that a "Conservative" in Britain is much more to the left of centre than an American Conservative. More reflective of the typical American Democrat than of any of those politicians that you cited earlier.

I can't believe you can delude yourself enough to think that Dubya is a "center-right" president?


Let's see:

1. The medicare drug plan, a huge government spending bill which we couldn't afford.
2. "No Child Left Behind," a new law which increased government spending on education and expanded the federal government's control of education.
3. Open borders, more lax than before 9/11.
4. Government spending is up.
5. Bush is fighting Iraq like I would expect Europe to, he won't use our superior air force enough, not enough troops, Fallujah is still standing, and we can't torture captured enemy soldiers to possibly save American and British lives.

Yeah....a real hard right-winger.  More like a JFK democrat then a Reagan republican.

Let's see:

1. The medicare drug plan, a huge government spending bill which we couldn't afford.
We can't afford it because he gave all the public money away to rich people and the Pentagon.  The drug plan itself was just another giveaway to the pharmaceutical industry.  Forbidding an elected government to negotiate with private corporations is pretty d*mned far-right.
2. "No Child Left Behind," a new law which increased government spending on education and expanded the federal government's control of education.
This was an unfunded mandate that gave the illusion of solving problems.  It imposed a bunch of stupid tests instead of strategising real education reform.  Truth be known, the elites don't want the masses to get good educations because the idiot sons of privilege, like Dubya, don't like competition from the riff-raff. Furthermore NCLB was another great way for Republicans to demonize public education, an institution they would like to destroy.  It also let them blame the teachers unions.  Republicans hate teachers because the tend to be liberal, and they hate unions for obvious reasons.  Again, very far-right.
3. Open borders, more lax than before 9/11.
You know the President had to court the Latino vote, so quit bellyaching.
4. Government spending is up.
Well, duh, why do you think that is?  The Republican Right loooove government spending, and lots of it.  The only interest the Republicans don't favor big spending on is the interest of the people.
5. Bush is fighting Iraq like I would expect Europe to, he won't use our superior air force enough, not enough troops, Fallujah is still standing, and we can't torture captured enemy soldiers to possibly save American and British lives.
He's trying to establish "democracy" in Iraq (as he undermines it in the U.S.), how is carpet bombing the country going to encourage the democratic process?  The Bushies are in a funny quandry.  They want the people they have invaded and conquered to like us.  Other empires just invaded states they wanted, took them over, made them pay tribute, and said "step out of line and you all die."  The Bushies want Iraq as an imperial province while bringing about a phony democracy and gaining the gratitude of the "liberated" Iraqis.  Now, that's not going to happen, but while they are trying to make it happen, they can't just lay siege to Iraq by air power and kill a million Iraqis in order to scare them into submission.
::)

Yeah....a real hard right-winger.  More like a JFK democrat then a Reagan republican.

Neither.  More like a retarded Nero.
:P

Anybody who has watched Prime Ministers question time can see that Michael Howard destroys Tony Blair on a fairly consitent basis.

We must be watching at different times (well, listening in my case) - I've hardly ever seen/heard Howard land a worthwhile punch: his main problem is that most of the time he's trying to complain about things that he'd be doing in government, too.  All he's got to attack Blair on is style, especially leadership style... and seeing as that's just the sort of leader the electorate want to vote for, he's on to a bit of a loser there, too.

Howard is just about the last person I'd ever want to be running this country: unlike most of the rest of the press, Tory party and even country, I have a memory.  He was possibly the most unpopular home secretary in living memory, managing to alienate the police, prison service and public - just because he was a shoe-in for the Tory leadership (anyone else read "House of Cards" by Michael Dobbs?)... somebody who never faced election by his own party is supposed to appeal to the electorate?

Michael Howard - Tory Leader?

...or even

Michael the Right-Wing Vampire

Yeah Yeah Yeah.. the whole transylvanian thing.

We must be watching/listening at different times because on many an occasion i have seen Blair pretty stumped.

No of course Howard isn't the best man for the job and yes was an awful Home Secretary.. he is just the lesser of two evils.

Other empires just invaded states they wanted, took them over, made them pay tribute, and said "step out of line and you all die." 

Oh come on.  Bush, because of the left, is fighting a politically correct war.  He's fighting the Makaveli-style-of-war.  If we fought like this during World War II; France, England, Poland, and possibly Russia would all be speaking German right now.

This is mostly because of Michael Moore.  If Michael Moore said the same things he says now about the war and the President during almost any other war in the past, he would be in jail for sedition, like he should be now.  Don't give me the first amendment garbage, idiots like him are costing as men, all the while he says he hopes the Iraqi terrorists win.

Oh come on.  Bush, because of the left, is fighting a politically correct war.  He's fighting the Makaveli-style-of-war.  If we fought like this during World War II; France, England, Poland, and possibly Russia would all be speaking German right now.

This is mostly because of Michael Moore.  If Michael Moore said the same things he says now about the war and the President during almost any other war in the past, he would be in jail for sedition, like he should be now.  Don't give me the first amendment garbage, idiots like him are costing as men, all the while he says he hopes the Iraqi terrorists win.



Blame it on political correctness, blame it on Michael Moore, can't you see how weak and desperate that is?
;D

Yep, naughty boy, out the door. I agree he needed to go because of the visa, rather than the affair, and that more fuss would have been made if it had happened to a Conservative when they were in power. I'd also agree that Labour is now further 'right' in the political spectrum than either of the other 2 main competitors- does anyone else in the UK feel it's likely we'll never have another major left-wing political party?  :P

I'm glad Blunkett's gone, I think he was a fascist in very thin disguise. His moves to advance the police state in the UK worried me, just as much as Bliar's attempts to 'nannify' public life. I feel like the UK's going to hell in a handcart under this government, and that Bliar & his cronies are trying to sell our sovereignty to whomever they can, whilst dissolving our national identity from within with misdirected policies derived from political correctness, rather than common sense. It's nice to have a rant about Brit politics for a change, I feel I can moan with a lot more validity on that subject... ;)

I am glad you have bought up the issue of 'selling our sovereignty'.. are you aware that if Bliar actually agreed to, signed and enforced the new EU Constitution he would have broken his oath of feilty (typo?) to the crown and thus have commited High Treason.. interesting, because he has in fact agreed to it has he not?

Blunkett was a facist, a racist and a very hate filled man. We will eventually have a left leaning government and it sounds crazy to say this but it wouldn't shock me if it was the conservative party. Label me an idiot but there ideas have got more left wing as time has rolled on...yes of course you still have 'the old boys club' but they are.. well.. they will all be dead before too long. Look at some of the younger members, the younger back benchers etc.. thye may not agree with big spending government and large welfare however on many issues they are very much left leaning. It's not so much a 'we must help' left kind of thing.. more a 'if thats what they want to do' left kind of thing.

Call me an idiot but i can see it happening.. also many voters have become disillusioned with the Blair led Neo Nazi's and would rather have anything else. If there are a large influx of Left leaning voters who want to vote away from Labour then the Conservatives will adopt populist leftist ideas. Or so i hope anyway.

Blame it on political correctness, blame it on Michael Moore, can't you see how weak and desperate that is?
;D


Be honest: if we fought WWII like we are fighting this war, would we have won?

Bomb that dam* Sunni Triangle for all I care.

See this is a hard one to call. Personally i have no problem bombing the crap out of them.. however you can't compare this war to WWII... they are two completley different wars with completley different enemies.

I am glad you have bought up the issue of 'selling our sovereignty'.. are you aware that if Bliar actually agreed to, signed and enforced the new EU Constitution he would have broken his oath of feilty (typo?) to the crown and thus have commited High Treason.. interesting, because he has in fact agreed to it has he not?

Call me an idiot but i can see it happening.. also many voters have become disillusioned with the Blair led Neo Nazi's and would rather have anything else. If there are a large influx of Left leaning voters who want to vote away from Labour then the Conservatives will adopt populist leftist ideas. Or so i hope anyway.


Hey, if Bliar is breaking his oath of fealty & commiting treason, isn't treason one of the 2 things that the death sentence can still be issued for? Bet he'd be able to weasel out of it, anyway...

Most people I know are disillusioned with the Bliar carry-on, but many feel the alternatives are no better. I'm passionate about exercising the right to vote, but even I omitted to vote at the last general election, for lack of suitable candidates. I'd personally like to see the Lib Dems getting themselves together with some decent policies (I am a little biased as my best mate is nephew to Simon Hughes MP), but feel they will have a problem with voter credibility for a long time to come. I don't think it's too far a stretch of the imagination for the Tories to go further to the left, they have to do something to ring the changes now that Labour have out-righted them- they could re-nationalise all those industries Thatcher sold off!

They could indeed re-nationalise those industries.. would be a good idea.

The Lib dems have also taken on many Populist ideas and i can see it working somewhat, they will definatley eat in to the Labour (or Conservative) majority at the next election.

Only certian types of treason can be punished by death.. i think there are only 2 kinds of treason as opposed to Treason being one of two things.

I'm sure one would be killing the monarch.. god knows what the other is...

I have never actually been a fan of the Lib Dem's... they seem to not know what they want and have at times had members who have come out with ridiculous statements supporting Terrorists, Murderer's etc

Don't either of you watch QI?  The death penalty for treason was repealed a number of years ago.

Yes but there are 2 specific kinds of treason that it is still possible under.

Although Jack Straw signed European Law which bans it (and yes European Law overules British Law) British law dosen't ban it.. thus we are still able to give the death penalty just the E.U wont be too pleased.

As such..

Don't either of you watch QI?  The death penalty for treason was repealed a number of years ago.


In 1998 according to this website

http://www.stephen-stratford.co.uk/capital_hist.htm

the last two crimes for which it was possible to be hung were done away with under a law introduced (but I can't remember the exact name)

On 27 January 1999, the UK Home Secretary (The Labour MP Jack Straw) signed the 6th protocol of the European Convention of Human Rights in Strasbourg. This move formally abolishes the death penalty in the UK.

Yes under European law it is prohibbeted and of course European law takes precedant however it is still possible although technically illegal. Because of the way EU law over rules our law it complicates thigns awfully.

No, not under European law.  under a law made in this country the death penalty was withdrawn for treason and whatever in 1998

I'll quote from that website I mentioned shall I?

"Since the abolishing of capital punishment for murder, the death sentence had remained in force for treason and piracy with violence. The use of capital punishment in these two instances was abolished in 1998 under the Crime and Disorder Act."

Some other site gave dates for when it was abolished in the military as well.

I see... right then well im glad you cleared that up, i was under the impression.. that.. well i said.

Shame really.. i'd love to see old Bliar strung up.

The death penalty for treason was repealed a number of years ago.


Not in America.

Not in America.


But we were talking about Britain.  Most of this thread is about Britain

Do you think we could get Bliar extradited and then if i promised Bushie that he could come to a party he would stump up charges and put him to death? Just a thought just a thought..

Do you think we could get Bliar extradited and then if i promised Bushie that he could come to a party he would stump up charges and put him to death? Just a thought just a thought..


Are you talking about killing your own prime minister?

Kill him with a vote for conservative....what is it May 2005?

Well.. maybe it's a bit drastic lol..

Yes i think there will be a large amount of disconcerted (typo) Labour voters voting conservative.. however i can't see them winning.

Yes i think there will be a large amount of disconcerted (typo) Labour voters voting conservative.. however i can't see them winning.


Never underestimate the power of a vote.  I don't know about British politics much, but which party is the nextest biggest after labor, is it conservative or liberal or something else?

Michael Howard...for a stronger, better, and safer England.  And an England that America will like more.  Remember before the US elections, England was telling us we have to vote in Kerry or they won't like us as much?  Let's turn it around, England must elect conservative or we won't like them.  Maybe the Washington Times will start a letter writing campaign like the Guardian.

Never underestimate the power of a vote. 
Republicans don't, that's why they try to make sure as few people as possible get one.

^ LMAO


Never underestimate the power of a vote. I don't know about British politics much, but which party is the nextest biggest after labor, is it conservative or liberal or something else?


The next biggest party is the Conservative Party.

I am glad you have bought up the issue of 'selling our sovereignty'.. are you aware that if Bliar actually agreed to, signed and enforced the new EU Constitution he would have broken his oath of feilty (typo?) to the crown and thus have commited High Treason.. interesting, because he has in fact agreed to it has he not?

Don't believe everything you read in the Daily Mail... I've actually tried reading the EU constitution document (Ok, so I haven't read it all, I gave up after a while... but the BBC summarizes in a very reasonable way here): amongst all the seriously sleep-inducing half-page-long clauses there is basically nothing which actually cedes extra powers to Europe which aren't either part of current treaties or being argued in the European Parliament at the moment.  What they have tried to do with the initial release of the constitution is define in one place what is currently in three major treaties and lots of intermediate clauses and modifications.  Even the Daily Telegraph admitted that the EU constitution as it stands is a necessary simplification if EU expansion is going to happen... what they were worrying about was what an EU constitution might contain at some point in the future.




Do you think we could get Bliar extradited and then if i promised Bushie that he could come to a party he would stump up charges and put him to death? Just a thought just a thought..

No, we don't extradite anyone who might face the death penalty (that's where the problem comes with suspected terrorists who'd be killed off back home but we don't want them running around here... at present we're locking them up indefinitely, but that's just been decided by the courts as against the law)


Michael Howard...for a stronger, better, and safer England.

Just shows, you really don't know anything about Michael Howard at all..

How many people in England want to join the EU?  For some reason I bet it's a minority.

As for the EU, it's being taken over by the President of France, who wants to hurt America.  I smell a rat with the EU, it looks to much like a step towards globalization.

Ah well, looks like I was mistaken about the death penalty, no hope for a quick release from the Grinning Jackanapes.  :P 'Cos I use this site at work, I haven't often got the opportunity to look up info as I'm going along.

I'm not sure about the UK joining the EU- I've got a feeling that once we're signed up, we will be open to revenge from some of our neighbours. There is still a lot of bad feeling between us & some of our European neighbours, I fear they may take the opportunity to 'resolve' issues they would not be able to if we were in isolation. Plus, membership of the EEC has already allowed our seas to be emptied, our natural resources sold to mainland European countries, and for our sovereignty to be undermined- we haven't got much left, but I think further integration would enable what little we have to be further robbed from us. There must be some benefits, but I'm struggling to think any...

Just shows, you really don't know anything about Michael Howard at all..


I think there is something creepy about Michael Howard. He smiles like the mafia in films do.

I think there is something creepy about Michael Howard. He smiles like the mafia in films do.


Like he has a hand on your shoulder.. and the other near his holster.

Goodsin.. we haven't got much left, we have no national identity as such. Our resources are, as you say, being basically taken away, our trained professionals are leaving and going to mainland Europe, Canada & the united states because they are offered better wages. We are royally screwed. I honestly see the only way out being an isolationist stance. There is no reason why we cannot, be friends (for lack of a better term) with the rest of Europe, but just keep our distance.

Our staunchest ally is the United States who although occasionally wavering always pulls through when needed.

Face it, look at Europe, The French don't like us, The Germans aren't crazy, The Spaniards aren't exactly keen.. and they are the other 3 major powers in Europe. It's crazy to allow them to have some say in how we run our country. It's not like they are going to intentionally bring us down but we are very different.

This is my major problem with Europe we are an island nation and are very different to the rest of Europe. If you look at France, Holland, Belgium, Germany & Switzerland. They are close together right, they are all Conservative (with the exception of Holland but look how many votes pim foortane got), they all have similar health care, welfare and taxation systems. There people all speak each others languages (if sparingly). WE DONT!!!

We are as a whole a fairly Liberal lot (although that isn't showed at the moment), we have very different Government systems to the rest of Europe. Our major institutions are run in a completley different way.

In short we are a completly different kind of people, something we should all take great pride in. Should we be forced to change just because our leaders don't want to seem stodgy and traditional, clinging to bygone values? Hell no, we have a national identity and whilst there is a breath in my body and hunger in my eyes I won't let it be taken away from me.

Bravo, Alcoholica, I agree with everything in that post. Even the bit about Michael Howard, I like the bit about 'hand near near his holster', open to interpretation!  ;)

One hand to comfort.. one hand to punish