Just in time for World Aids Day (actually, a day late)! This article (besides being somewhat grammatically flawed, note the use of the word "curriculums" ???), is OK and pretty objective. It infuriates me to no end that we are allowing our youth to be subjected to such misinformation and indoctrination.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/EDUCATION/12/02/abstinence.education.ap/index.html

Just in time for World Aids Day (actually, a day late)! This article (besides being somewhat grammatically flawed, note the use of the word "curriculums" ???), is OK and pretty objective. It infuriates me to no end that we are allowing our youth to be subjected to such misinformation and indoctrination.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/EDUCATION/12/02/abstinence.education.ap/index.html


It is amazing how people will denigrate the integrity of the concept of abstinence.  Separate from any "religious interpretation", one finds that the old-style mores that cover marriage, abstinence, and such are rooted in physical practicality and health.

Mores against promiscuity are rooted in the desire to avoid syph, clap, crabs, and other STD's that have been with us for millenia.  Much like the mores of Islamic and jewish laws regarding banished foods were rooted in proventing trychinosis and other diseases.

Some people would have us think that wearing a condom will prevent pregnancy and STD's.  The FACT of the matter is that, other than perhaps the "rhythym method", trojans are just about the WORST form of contraception with a failure rate, as I recall of about 10% (anyone with the exact figures feel free to post 'em).

And if prophylactics have a pregnancy-failure-rate of 10%, that means fluids get exchanged, and those fluids also carry STD's and of course the dreaded AIDS virus.

Absinence works.  Is it practical?  Practicality depends upon how much the two people involved do not want to get pregnant or contract an STD.

Some high-minded critics will say that "raincosts, when used properly, are effective".  But there is the problem.  Goodyears are all too often NOT used properly and all too often are "forgotten" or "broken" or "slip off" and so on.  All of these failure modes must be considered in rubber-land.

Just a quick point on Dubyah's ABC Programme. Ok, fine he want's to teach about protection as well, good for him.. don't be a fool, wrap your tool.. however abstinence. Ohmigosh, i am not as clued in to the mind set in the states, but here if people came to schools and said, don't have sex until your married, because errrmm.. it will be better.. or.. god will hate you, or basically any other excuse.. people would be falling in to the aisles laughing there asses off!

And if prophylactics have a pregnancy-failure-rate of 10%, that means fluids get exchanged, and those fluids also carry STD's and of course the dreaded AIDS virus.



wrong:

http://pedclerk.bsd.uchicago.edu/adolescentcontraception.html

3% when properly used.  Of course if you're never shown how to use it, you would see something closer to that 10% failure rate you quote.

Abstinace is a great way to prevent disease, and it's fine to teach it alongside other techniques, but to teach NOTHING but absitance is ridiculous. Most of these programs are outright lying to kids to scare them into folllowing their beliefs, which aren't founded on science, but are religious in nature and funded by the government.  You might as well teach nothing at all, because we've seen how well the scare tactics have worked in teaching kids to not drink before their 21, and to not use drugs, etc.

It's the age old problem, if your told not to do something, your gonna wonder why.. your gonna wanna find out... your gonna do it.

Of course you have the other way, my parents said if i smoked dope they wouldn't get mad they would just be disapointed.. i kind took this as my lead to go smoke dope.. but still, that's me.

It is imperative that any classes that teach sex get their facts straight. However, I wouldn't trust a crook like Harry Waxman (or any politician)  to define what the correct way to have sex is. Abstinence is still the best choice, even though we know how impatient teens and young adults get. And in the privacy of your own home is the best way to teach kids about sex. Schools do need to be a second option, but anybody should know the subject before making any false claims. 

Yeah i gotta agree with that. Ok schools are supposed to teach kids about sex and what not however it is the parents job to re-enforce that message.

At the end of the day although you want to rebel, the majority of the time you wanna do what your parents want, because in your heart you know it's right.

Having done all this stuff recently, i will say that sex education in england is awful. They just basically say, when two people love each other very much.. blah de blah blah, and yet i was 15 when this was all taught, it needs to be taught earlier.

wrong:

http://pedclerk.bsd.uchicago.edu/adolescentcontraception.html

3% when properly used.  Of course if you're never shown how to use it, you would see something closer to that 10% failure rate you quote.

Abstinace is a great way to prevent disease, and it's fine to teach it alongside other techniques, but to teach NOTHING but absitance is ridiculous.

I agree with your comments about only teaching abstinence.  But some "politically correct" types make like abstinence-teaching is archaic and out of touch.  It is only out of touch if one wants to play russian roulette with their future.

But the "3% when properly used" figure is also misleading because we all know that they are not always properly used, even by people who have had all the sex-ed classes we can provide to them.  The main "failure mode" for condooms, I suspect is the failure mode of "Hey baby, I forgot to bring it this time.  One time won't matter".

Abstinence does work. Duh! No sex, no sex-related issues right? Of course!

But, let's not use this as the ONLY Sex Education class available. It would be asinine, irresponsible, and "out of touch with reality" to do so. I'm all for teaching abstinence as long as it is in the mix with proper birth control usage, sexually transmitted diseases, pregnancy, and other sex related issues that students need to know.

Why is the fear of sex so prevalent in the United States? You can't hush it away. Everyone on this planet is proof that SOMEBODY was doing the do at some point of their lives!

Tanya

I do agree that abstinence is the best for teens and others who are not ready for the responsiblity of having sex. However, you do have to teach the correct information about the subject. It is like having a pool. It can be dangerous if you don't know what to do but it can be fun if you do. Wouldn't you want to teach kids the right way to swim before they ever set foot in the pool? Or would you rather say, "Ok, you can go in the pool after you are old enough but I'm not going to show or tell you how to swim"?  Which is more dangerous? I think the latter because that pool is always there, tempting the kids to try it out.




Cat

Chucky wrote:
In another instance, the Why kNOw curriculum asserts "twenty-four chromosomes from the mother and twenty-four chromosomes from the father join to create this new individual," the report said. The correct number is 23 each.
Not if you're gonna make a baby right-winger...
:-X

It is undeniable--if you don't engage in any sexual activity, you can't get pregnant, and you can't get STDs.
That's the idealistic side.  Then there's the realistic side.  The young are not gonna keep their hands to themselves.  Never have, never will.  I mean, I was celibate as a teenager, but it wasn't by choice, believe me!  If I could have gotten la*d befere I was 19, I would have.  And I would have used contraception because I was taught the correct facts of life, and, by the '80s, any kid could go into a drug store and buy condoms.  If the right-wing had their way, kids would be taught that condoms didn't really work, and stores wouldn't be allowed to sell them to kids.
::)

http://www.inthe00s.com/index.php?action=dlattach;id=2535;type=avatar
Alcoholica, love your avatar!

merci..merci

With soft porn films shown on both cable and dishes, hard core available at just about every vidio rental store, the networks airing  suggestive films and sitcoms, advertisers pushing products, including Viagra etc, is it any wonder sell abstinance is a tough job?  And  that's not to mention those teenage raging hormones and the curiosity of evan pre-teens (my x once walked into our bedroom to find our 8 year old daughter and 5 year old son on our bed, in the nude, playing with each others privates).  Face it, sexuality is the most fundamental (and universal) human impluse, and everyone gives expression to it.  In a world of aids and other std's, and given the difficulties of teen pregnancy, shouldn't kids be armed with as much info as possible?  Teaching abstinance is great, but it MUST be accompanied by detailed and accurate info re safe sex.  No 2 ways about it - encourage abstinance, but recognize basic human desires.  I would go sop far as to teach kids how to do it right, which is to say how to please their lover.  After all, they're  going to do it anyway, they might as well get it right.  A healthy sex life is important to a healthy life.  They should learn that it is just part of being human.

With soft porn films shown on both cable and dishes, hard core available at just about every vidio rental store, the networks airing  suggestive films and sitcoms, advertisers pushing products, including Viagra etc, is it any wonder sell abstinance is a tough job?  And  that's not to mention those teenage raging hormones and the curiosity of evan pre-teens (my x once walked into our bedroom to find our 8 year old daughter and 5 year old son on our bed, in the nude, playing with each others privates).  Face it, sexuality is the most fundamental (and universal) human impluse, and everyone gives expression to it.  In a world of aids and other std's, and given the difficulties of teen pregnancy, shouldn't kids be armed with as much info as possible?  Teaching abstinance is great, but it MUST be accompanied by detailed and accurate info re safe sex.  No 2 ways about it - encourage abstinance, but recognize basic human desires.  I would go sop far as to teach kids how to do it right, which is to say how to please their lover.  After all, they're  going to do it anyway, they might as well get it right.  A healthy sex life is important to a healthy life.  They should learn that it is just part of being human.

Speaking of porn:  Who puts up the biggest gripe about porn?  Evangelicals and radical feminists.  Who consumes the most porn per capita?  Evangelicals and radical feminists!
:D

Speaking of porn:  Who puts up the biggest gripe about porn?  Evangelicals and radical feminists.  Who consumes the most porn per capita?  Evangelicals and radical feminists!
:D


Just curious, where did you get that info?  Not that it surprises me.

Speaking of porn:  Who puts up the biggest gripe about porn?  Evangelicals and radical feminists.  Who consumes the most porn per capita?  Evangelicals and radical feminists!
:D


Ha!

I do know that the highest consumers for S&M porn videos are upper class white males. Bad boys!  ;)

Tanya

Just curious, where did you get that info?  Not that it surprises me.

Oh, I'm just having a bit of levity.  It's not demonstrated fact, just suspicion.  Both groups get out there and describe in detail acts of sick carnality even I haven't seen.  There was one anti-porn activist from the evangelical side who claimed the internet was bursting with hardcore kiddy porn.  She claimed she could access it on her laptop within five minutes.
:D
Methinks they protesteth too much!!!

The point is, again, the "red state" conservatives decry porn as a vile product of New York--L.A. axis of vice, but contrary to cliche, it will play in Peoria!
:P

It's the age old problem, if your told not to do something, your gonna wonder why.. your gonna wanna find out... your gonna do it.

Of course you have the other way, my parents said if i smoked dope they wouldn't get mad they would just be disapointed.. i kind took this as my lead to go smoke dope.. but still, that's me.


One would think that some of our Fundamentalist compatriots would have taken that hint from Adam and Eve.

We learned in Psychology class two days ago that kids who take that plegde to wait for sex until marriage are the group highest likey to not practise safer sex once they do become sexually active (be it in marriage or not), and thus highest likey become pregnant or contract an STD.

And before one of you right wingers starts crying "liberal college professor" like I know you want to... let me inform you that my Psychology professor is a devout, licensed Baptist minister from the South.

Yeah Panorama or Horizon (one of the two) came out saying the same thing here.

We learned in Psychology class two days ago that kids who take that plegde to wait for sex until marriage are the group highest likey to not practise safer sex once they do become sexually active (be it in marriage or not), and thus highest likey become pregnant or contract an STD.

And before one of you right wingers starts crying "liberal college professor" like I know you want to... let me inform you that my Psychology professor is a devout, licensed Baptist minister from the South.

I've heard that several times as well.  What is the cause.  I've heard it's because once you break the vow, you've fallen from grace, so why even try?  I think there's more to it than that, though.

Fairly obvious man.

The ones who take the vow often aren't taught about all the other stuff, protection, diseases etc.. and so think.. oh well broken the vow.. let's screw.