Fox News has just projected Bush the winner of Ohio giving him 266 electoral votes.  Bush will no-doubt get 3 from Alaska, so at the very least a tie which would go to the US House which is republican held.  Bush is ahead in Nevada and New Mexico.  Also Bush's lead is EXPANDING in Ohio, and he looks very good for the US Popular vote, he may be the first President to get 50% of the popular vote since Bush Sr. in 1988.

Notice the Avatar....Bush wins.  It is all over but the lawsuits (which the democrats will lose.)

You shouldn't be so mean....a lot of very nice people voted for Kerry....I put an update thread in the 2000's so we could possibly be kind to each other!

Fox News has just projected Bush the winner of Ohio giving him 266 electoral votes.  Bush will no-doubt get 3 from Alaska, so at the very least a tie which would go to the US House which is republican held.  Bush is ahead in Nevada and New Mexico.  Also Bush's lead is EXPANDING in Ohio, and he looks very good for the US Popular vote, he may be the first President to get 50% of the popular vote since Bush Sr. in 1988.

Notice the Avatar....Bush wins.  It is all over but the lawsuits (which the democrats will lose.)

Yeah, I posted my election call at the same time you did, calling it for Bush.  There may be lawsuits, but I don't see any viable challenge to the Bush victory.  He is the incumbent this time, and as such is running much stronger.

The question is how is the second Bush Administration going to clean up the mess they made in the first.  You know, they can't just run the country on gloat and swagger.  Clinton has receded far back rear view.  Now Bush has to take responsiblity as he reaps the whirlwind from the wind he sowed in the first term.

I'm not interested in cake walks from you Republicans.  You need to start doing some serious worrying!

You shouldn't be so mean....a lot of very nice people voted for Kerry....I put an update thread in the 2000's so we could possibly be kind to each other!


I wasn't trying to be mean, sorry if I came off that way.  I am just so excited that I won't have to wake up with a Kerry hang-over tomorrow.

Yeah, I posted my election call at the same time you did, calling it for Bush.  There may be lawsuits, but I don't see any viable challenge to the Bush victory.  He is the incumbent this time, and as such is running much stronger.

The question is how is the second Bush Administration going to clean up the mess they made in the first.  You know, they can't just run the country on gloat and swagger.  Clinton has receded far back rear view.  Now Bush has to take responsiblity as he reaps the whirlwind from the wind he sowed in the first term.

I'm not interested in cake walks from you Republicans.  You need to start doing some serious worrying!
I sincerely hope that things go better these next four years :)

I wasn't trying to be mean, sorry if I came off that way.  I am just so excited that I won't have to wake up with a Kerry hang-over tomorrow.
I'm happy too...but remember....some really nice people lost so you should show some sportsmanship. I hope Bush gets it together more these next four years...as for the MEAN Libs....Michael Moore can kiss my @ss.... ;)

I'm happy too...but remember....some really nice people lost so you should show some sportsmanship. I hope Bush gets it together more these next four years...as for the MEAN Libs....Michael Moore can kiss my @ss.... ;)

Be careful what you wish for...you might get it, as they saying goes.  Bush is now a lameduck president.  He's got a VP with a bad ticker who can't run in 2008.  As right-wing judicial activists get appointed to the courts, as wild-eyed imperialist adventures abroad, gargantuan national debt, and a dozen other issues will begin to create an angry groundswell for Hillary like you've never seen before.

As I read this now, the reports are 269 Electoral Votes to 211.  At least we will no longer have to listen to the claims that Bush is an "Illegitimate President".  And there is no doubt this time, Florida supported Bush by an overwhelming majority.

Maybe NOW, people will stop screaming about a "stolen election".

And in an informal straw poll, 8 out of 8 people where I worked voted for Bush.  One in fact (another employee like myself) said he voted against Kerry BECAUSE he would raise the minimum wage!  Like me, he sees that an increase in an area like Alabama would ruin our local economy.

**fades again into the background**

As a last side note, I personally think that the Confederacy had one thing right:

The President should serve a 6 year term, and only ONE term, with no re-election.  This way, there would be no more of these battles every 4 years.  This would let the President concentrate all of his/her energy on running the Government, not spending 1+ year working to keep his job.

angry swell
The ONLY angry "Swelling" will be from Michael Moore's FAT belly AND Head..he is truly the Liberal version of Archie Bunker....an ignorant, pig-headed....Liar!

94.9% of the votes counted, Bush wins electoral college. 

Popular vote:

Bush: 56,541,034 (51.2%) 
Kerry: 52,828,972 (47.9%) 
Nader: 382,892 (0.3%)


Republicans hold the White House and pick up a bigger majority in the US House and the US Senate.

Be careful what you wish for...you might get it, as they saying goes.  Bush is now a lameduck president.  He's got a VP with a bad ticker who can't run in 2008.  As right-wing judicial activists get appointed to the courts, as wild-eyed imperialist adventures abroad, gargantuan national debt, and a dozen other issues will begin to create an angry groundswell for Hillary like you've never seen before.


Yes, from now on there cannot be any finger pointing saying "It's Clintons fault" which should have
stopped after the first six months at the latest.  It is all in the bushies camp.  Yesterday I tried to imagine
the damage that could be done by a lame duck president in 3 months, now I have to imagine a lame
duck for four years.  ???

Since back in January I had a bad feeling it would go this way, with Bush being the "apparent" winner and John Kerry being the vote challenger.  It looks like 4 more years of Bush.  Amazing.  Absolutely amazing that Dubya will most likely be reelected.  After all his screw ups, after Iraq, after the economy, after his pitiful performance in the debates, he will STILL get reelected!!  That is just amazing to me.  A Democratic president could never get away with half of what Bush has done, he would have easily been booted out of there. 

Dubya's base just won't abandon the party.  It doesn't seem like they are sticking with him as much as they just won't abandon the GOP and either sit out the election or vote for Kerry.  I don't get how all those undecideds "decided" to vote for Bush either.

I don't get how all those undecideds "decided" to vote for Bush either.

Must have been those Guardian readers' letters telling 'em to vote Kerry...

Listening to the radio this morning had its amusing moments: seems that the French are quite happy with Bush being re-elected... surprised?  Well, it's just that if Kerry got in, they'd be under a lot more pressure to send troops into Iraq to help out; also they see Bush as being one of the strongest unifying factors, for the EU at any rate.


The President should serve a 6 year term, and only ONE term, with no re-election.

I can see where you're coming from - there is certainly a huge waste of effort and distraction from the real job of running the country, must be at least 75% of the time in office spent directly thinking about or campaigning for re-election.

Must have been those Guardian readers' letters telling 'em to vote Kerry...




You got that right!  I guess that county didn't like the pro-Kerry letters coming from strangers half-way across the world.

With 100% of the polls in...

Clarke County:

Bush-51%

Kerry-48%

Other-1%

You got that right! I guess that county didn't like the pro-Kerry letters coming from strangers half-way across the country.

Across the country?  Sorry to tell you this, but the UK is not part of the US...

Across the country?  Sorry to tell you this, but the UK is not part of the US...


Knock off the sarcasm.  You know full well that was a mistake and I meant to say world.

Yes, I know you do... I ain't so sure about the voters in Ohio, though ;)


You're gonna have to allow me the occasional joke as part of the grieving process ;)

Yes, I know you do... I ain't so sure about the voters in Ohio, though ;)


You're gonna have to allow me the occasional joke as part of the grieving process ;)


Hey, thanks for being a good sport.

The Ohio Sec. of state's website says there were 135,000 of those provisional ballots given out.  Bush is ahead by 135,566 votes.  Also the accepting of provisional ballots this year (in Ohio anyway) is much more strict.  This is over in my opinion.

speaking of jokes!

"Kerry and Edwards are taking a stroll around Capitol Hill when he meets a little girl carrying a small basket with a blanket over it.
Curiously, Kerry asks the girl, "What's in the basket?"

She replies, "New baby kittens," and she opens the basket to show him.

"How nice" says Kerry. "What kind are they?"

The little girl says, "Democrats."

Kerry smiles and pats the little girl on the head, and they continue on.

About three weeks later, Kerry, walking around Capitol Hill with another Congressional colleague, sees the same little girl again with the same basket.

Kerry says to his colleague, "Watch this; it's very cute". As they
approach the little girl. Kerry asks the girl, "How are the kittens?"

She says, "Fine."

He then asks, "Again, what kind of kittens are they?"

This time she replies, "Republicans."

Somewhat abashed, Kerry says, "Three weeks ago you said they were Democrats!"

"I know," she says, "But now their eyes are open."

speaking of jokes!

"Kerry and Edwards are taking a stroll around Capitol Hill when he meets a little girl carrying a small basket with a blanket over it.
Curiously, Kerry asks the girl, "What's in the basket?"



funny when I first heard it twenty years ago... as are most of the other things you posted

Notice the rush for the Republicans to claim victory.... no need to count those final ballots, concede, concede, concede.

It's quite likely Bush will win it one way or another at this point though (if Kerry gets Ohio he won't get a majority of electoral votes and it'll get voted on by the Senate, big surprise what happens there).

If you're under 30 and didn't vote, or voted for Bush, I really, REALLY hope you like military life.  My prediction is that it will take less than 2 years for a small draft, which then expands over the years. 

It's amazing how easily people believe the lies of the right on this election.  Glad I own stock in a lot of military heavy companies as well, I have a feeling they'll be doing much better than the other sectors of the economy over the next few years.

Hey, does this mean the neocons will stop using Clinton as an excuse for their problems? nah... I'm sure they'll still figure a way to blame him after four years of control of all three branchs of the gov't.

I'm currently under 30, but just barely at age 29.  Men under 26 (or probably right now 24 and under) will really be the ones that need to worry.  From my understanding the draft selection has traditionally started with men age 25 or 26, and trickled back to age 18.  But they never went over age 26, unless they become super desperate.  Those of us born in the '70s will be past our prime whenever a military draft starts, sos for the most part this will be Gen Y's war.   

As of now, not all states have been called. Ohio, Iowa, and NM are still out.

http://network.ap.org/dynamic/files/specials/election_night_2004/us_map_govsenhouse/index.html?SITE=CSPANELN&SECTION=POLITICS


I can't believe how many people have voted against their own interest.



If you're under 30 and didn't vote, or voted for Bush, I really, REALLY hope you like military life. My prediction is that it will take less than 2 years for a small draft, which then expands over the years.




I don't think it will take that long, Chucky. Try 6 months-especially since the Repubs now own all branches of the government. We are all in trouble and I can't believe that people don't see it. I don't think this country is going to survive another 4 years. And this just may be the last election that this country will hold.



Cat

Spaces in the National guard are being reserved in the bush and cheney names as we speak

At least Kerry has the class to congratulate Bush :)

I can't say that I'm not disappointed.  I just sincerely hope that Bush at least makes an attempt to focus on something other than "terrorism".  Education & health care would be good places to start, but I just don't see those being a priority.
THAT is what I like to hear. My hope for the country is a positive one...not a negative one. I am sincerely sorry that you feel bad, 80s_cheerleader..just as I know you'd be as kind to me had Kerry won :)

THAT is what I like to hear. My hope for the country is a positive one...not a negative one. I am sincerely sorry that you feel bad, 80s_cheerleader..just as I know you'd be as kind to me had Kerry won :)


That's not going to happen R n R fan.  The Republican party has not won on positive messages.  They have won on fear, blame, ridicule, and hatred.  The GOP thrives on grassroots fear of hated "others."   Fear of Muslims, fear of terrorists, fear of gays who want to get married, fear of African American men, fear of secularists, fear, fear, fear.
The Republican mandate is born of negativity.  The Republican noise machine won't miss a beat.  The goal is not just to win political offices, it is to destroy the Democratic party, to destroy liberalism, and to impose a corporate-Christian fundamentalist axis of undemocratic authoritarianism.
There will be no positive movement.  Like a shark who must swim and hunt, the Republican party must attack and deceive, and they know if they ever, ever stop, they'll die.
I fully expect the same gloating, jeering, ridiculing arrogance from right-wingers everywhere as we have seen since Clinton was elected in '92. 
You call for unity, yet you don't offer anything one who is not a right-wing idealogue can unite with.

That's not going to happen R n R fan.  The Republican party has not won on positive messages.  They have won on fear, blame, ridicule, and hatred.  The GOP thrives on grassroots fear of hated "others."   Fear of Muslims, fear of terrorists, fear of gays who want to get married, fear of African American men, fear of secularists, fear, fear, fear.
The Republican mandate is born of negativity.  The Republican noise machine won't miss a beat.  The goal is not just to win political offices, it is to destroy the Democratic party, to destroy liberalism, and to impose a corporate-Christian fundamentalist axis of undemocratic authoritarianism.
There will be no positive movement.  Like a shark who must swim and hunt, the Republican party must attack and deceive, and they know if they ever, ever stop, they'll die.
I fully expect the same gloating, jeering, ridiculing arrogance from right-wingers everywhere as we have seen since Clinton was elected in '92. 
You call for unity, yet you don't offer anything one who is not a right-wing idealogue can unite with.

Like the democrats always tell the truth?  ;)  I've never seen a politian yet that does.

Just as there are bad things about the Republicans, there are bad things about Democrats. 

Like the democrats always tell the truth? ;) I've never seen a politian yet that does.

Then maybe what you (and everyone else) should do is to vote for ones that do - typically, a politician that *doesn't* promise to do things they have no intention of touching simply doesn't get elected.  Don't blame the politicos, it's the electorate's fault.


Just as there are bad things about the Republicans, there are bad things about Democrats.

After the evidence from this election, I'd say that the balance is heavily skewed in one direction, though.

Like the democrats always tell the truth?   ;)  I've never seen a politian yet that does.

Just as there are bad things about the Republicans, there are bad things about Democrats. 

Yeah, my point exactly.  The bad thing about Democrats is they try to be too much like Republicans.  The Dems have to get out of the "business" business and into the truth business.

Like I said in another thread, in my opinion this boils down to more of a culture war rather then a straight out difference in economic principles or how to handle foregin affairs.  When polarizing social issues and code words like stem cell research, abortion, welfare queens, states rights, gay marriage, and affirmative action are batted around, Republicans will nearly always win that culture war with mainstream White America. 

Republicans are always the favorites to win with corporate America and mainstream White America, Democrats always come across the underdog that has to prove why they need to be elected...even when they are an incumbent with 8 years of booming success behind them (i.e. Al Gore).  It's horrible that it's this way, where the Dems have to run a near perfect campaign and hope the Repubs screw up the economy like they did in the early 90s.  Whereas the GOP can put out any moronic canidate (like Bush Jr.) out there. 

The Zero Factor.

Like I said in another thread, in my opinion this boils down to more of a culture war rather then a straight out difference in economic principles or how to handle foregin affairs.  When polarizing social issues and code words like stem cell research, abortion, welfare queens, states rights, gay marriage, and affirmative action are batted around, Republicans will nearly always win that culture war with mainstream White America. 

Republicans are always the favorites to win with corporate America and mainstream White America, Democrats always come across the underdog that has to prove why they need to be elected...even when they are an incumbent with 8 years of booming success behind them (i.e. Al Gore).  It's horrible that it's this way, where the Dems have to run a near perfect campaign and hope the Repubs screw up the economy like they did in the early 90s.  Whereas the GOP can put out any moronic canidate (like Bush Jr.) out there. 


I agree.  These are dangerous times because the bedrock supporters of Bush are no rational people.  Who, today\, are the biggest supporters of Israel?  Not the Jewish community but the Christian fundamentalists.  And why?  Becuase they are hoping for armogedon.  The cold war strategy of Mutually Assured Destruction, that prevented nuclear war for over 30 years will no longer work when (not if) nucs fall into the hands of those who seek martyrdom, and the eventually will. 

I agree.  These are dangerous times because the bedrock supporters of Bush are no rational people. 

http://www.ezthemes.com/previews/t/the_flintstones.jpg
The Bedrock supporters of Bush

;D  ;D  ;D

I think Fred and Barney are smarter than that, goofy, but smarter.  Although I do think Bush will at least attempt to bring us back to the stone age.  Bye Bye Roe V Wade, affirmative action, Voting Rights act, Wagner act (?) .  Hard times ahead.

;D  ;D  ;D

I think Fred and Barney are smarter than that, goofy, but smarter.  Although I do think Bush will at least attempt to bring us back to the stone age.  Bye Bye Roe V Wade, affirmative action, Voting Rights act, Wagner act (?) .  Hard times ahead.

Yeah, that's what I was just explaining to a friend of mine.  I could almost be glad Kerry lost this time 'coz it will give us more time to set them on fire with their own matches, but I can't stand the thought of Bush getting to appoint four Supreme Court justices.  He'll nominate judges who believe in Adam and Eve and think women should be barefoot, pregnant, and in the kitchen!
In medieval Japan they used to execute people by boiling.  They would put the condemned in a cauldron of cool water and slowly bring it to a boil.  That's what I feel like today.  Bush won, but today doesn't feel any different than yesterday.  However, you can see the flames licking at the bottom of the cistern, and you know you're gonna get boiled alive!
http://www.lexiconmagazine.com/NWC/img/17_league_boiled_sc.jpg

At least Kerry has the class to congratulate Bush :)


That is not a suprise.  Even people who disagree with him admit he is a gentleman.

How depressing!  This is one of the worst days in a long time.  4 more years of this    :\'(

When is the war going to end?

That's not going to happen R n R fan. 
I was simply referring to 80s_cheerleader's comment....nothing more :)

That is not a suprise. Even people who disagree with him admit he is a gentleman.

Could have fooled me: I thought he was a lying, cheating, treacherous flip-flopper who couldn't be trusted to run a bath let alone a country... do you mean someone wasn't telling the truth before the election?

It was very nice of Kerry not to go over the court torture.

Do you know what the name of this period in Washington is? It’s the honeymoon period! Because now Dem. and Rep. are supposed to forget everything, pretend it never happened and be best friends again… Politicians! You gotta love them!

Like Shepard Smith said “there is a lot of nap to taken�. Man is he right!

In the days ahead, we must find common cause. We must join in common effort, without remorse or recrimination, without anger or rancor - John Kerry

http://www.ezthemes.com/previews/t/the_flintstones.jpg
The Bedrock supporters of Bush


And you wonder why people call democrats ''elitists?''  Oh yes we idiots who voted for Bush are so stupid, dumb, simple, blah, blah, blah....yet a lot of democrats are the MTV kids who have no idea who the vice president was/is.  You keep calling us idiots and you keep losing at the local, state, and federal levels....so go ahead, keep doing it. 

''A national party no more.'' -Zell Miller.  How true is that?  Democrats have been run out of the south, run out of the midwest.  Only the high minority groups up in New England and the wack jobs out on the west coast went for Kerry.  Look at the electoral map, it is a sea of red.

The democrats are out.  Republicans have huge majorites in the US House and the US Senate.  We have the white house. 

What about:

George Soros: Look at all that money spent.
Michael Moore: He promised on his website on 11/01/04 a victory party....where was that?
Al Franken: Dang I wish I could have heard him when he first did his radio show after the election.
Howard Stern: I thought you said your viewers would overthrow Bush?
DUers: They say Bush stole it........figures........

I liked Conan when they have some fake Kerry blaming Moore, Franken, Fahrenheit 9/11, and other stuff for his loss.

Look at the red-blue map county-by-county map done by USA Today of election 2004. Nothing but red! Note this was done before 100% of the polls reported, note the grey.

http://images.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/elections2004/_images/2004countymap3.gif

Red: County won by President Bush
Blue: County won by Senator Kerry

Square miles of
counties won:

Bush: 3.28 million

Kerry: 741,000

Source: http://www.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/vote2004/countymap.htm

Also I got two words for the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth: Mission Accomplished!

Look at the red-blue map county-by-county map done by USA Today of election 2004. Nothing but red! Note this was done before 100% of the polls reported, note the grey.

http://images.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/elections2004/_images/2004countymap3.gif

Red: County won by President Bush
Blue: County won by Senator Kerry

Square miles of
counties won:

Bush: 3.28 million

Kerry: 741,000

Source: http://www.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/vote2004/countymap.htm




I look at these results and don't see a huge defeat or victory, it was 3 - 4 million out of nearly 300 million difference, 1 or 1.5% of your people.
What you can see by this map is the urban/rural split that's happening.  What does the area of land have to do with anything?
This cannot be good for anyone.
The Dems can whine about the south/bible belt etc and the Repubs the 'liberal elite', entertainment types but you all have to live together.
You can't isolate 48% of your people you have to try and work together and get over the us vs them.  The election is over, get on with building and repairing your country.
The rest of the world hopes you can.

I look at these results and don't see a huge defeat or victory, it was 3 - 4 million out of nearly 300 million difference, 1 or 1.5% of your people.
What you can see by this map is the urban/rural split that's happening.  What does the area of land have to do with anything?
This cannot be good for anyone.
The Dems can whine about the south/bible belt etc and the Repubs the 'liberal elite', entertainment types but you all have to live together.
You can't isolate 48% of your people you have to try and work together and get over the us vs them.  The election is over, get on with building and repairing your country.
The rest of the world hopes you can.


I agree!  It's over, done with, move on.  As my husband would say, "Cry me a river.  Build a bridge and get over it."  It's time to work together for the greater good of our country!  What happened to the patriotic feelings and working together that 9/11 produced? 

What happened to the patriotic feelings and working together that 9/11 produced? 


The democrats killed it.

Also I got two words for the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth: Mission Accomplished!

Doesn't mean they're not lying bastards...

The democrats killed it.

Sorry, but I'll have to disagree with you on that one, too: the worldwide positive feeling towards America post 9/11 wasn't destroyed by the Democrats, and there ain't no way you can blame them for the way Bush behaved in his first four years. Here's hoping he actually means what he says about working to build bridges rather than burn 'em.

The democrats killed it.


hahahahahahahahahahahah

Bush's policy of invade whoever has the most oil over the past three years has done far more to destroy any patriotism that may have united the country or even the world. 

It happened on the Republican watch, it's their fault.  They controlled the House, the Senate, and the White House.  If patriotism is gone, it's their fault.  Plain and simple.  It's their actions that caused it.  Learn to live with that, the rest of us will be for the next four years.

Now is a time to join together, not grow farther apart, hunt his sorry a** down and make him pay!!!


really? because Bush said Osama wasn't a priority.

Now is a time to join together, not grow farther apart, hunt his sorry a** down and make him pay!!!


Now thats the kind of talk I like to hear.

Now thats the kind of talk I like to hear.


really? you should have voted for someone who would have done it then.

it's been 3 years and counting...

really? you should have voted for someone who would have done it then.

it's been 3 years and counting...



Touche




Cat

yeah, build a bridge and get over it and if the land the other side has oil be prepared to have it terrorised by Bush...

And you wonder why people call democrats ''elitists?''  Oh yes we idiots who voted for Bush are so stupid, dumb, simple, blah, blah, blah....yet a lot of democrats are the MTV kids who have no idea who the vice president was/is.  You keep calling us idiots and you keep losing at the local, state, and federal levels....so go ahead, keep doing it. 

''A national party no more.'' -Zell Miller.  How true is that?  Democrats have been run out of the south, run out of the midwest.  Only the high minority groups up in New England and the wack jobs out on the west coast went for Kerry.  Look at the electoral map, it is a sea of red.

The democrats are out.  Republicans have huge majorites in the US House and the US Senate.  We have the white house. 

What about:

George Soros: Look at all that money spent.
Michael Moore: He promised on his website on 11/01/04 a victory party....where was that?
Al Franken: Dang I wish I could have heard him when he first did his radio show after the election.
Howard Stern: I thought you said your viewers would overthrow Bush?
DUers: They say Bush stole it........figures........

I liked Conan when they have some fake Kerry blaming Moore, Franken, Fahrenheit 9/11, and other stuff for his loss.










That sea of red is a lot of scarcely populated area... including such mammoth populations such as... Montana, and Wyoming and the Dakotas.... And last time I checked... Michigan, Wisconsin, Illinois, Minnesota, and Iowa are all in the Midwest. And as far a Elitism is concerned... why don't we count the ratio of influetial artists and academic elite who are Democrats vs. Republicans? I hardly think a conjecture such as "MTV idiosts are Democrats" is enough to support your claim... besides, if you go to the MTV messageboards, you'll find plenty of conservatives... and maybe even more than liberals. Republicans have one thing to thank for their success in the South and Midwest and it isn't brains... it's brainwashing.... religion-stlye. And before you go and whine about my being ignorant for thinking that religion is brainwashing, let me go ahead and fess up... I personally think Evangelical Christianity is brain infection. A disease. There you go... have fun.

Just as a sidenote, I think it's funny how Liberalism, even in the South, is strongest in and around Universities.

"Get OVER It" was sung by Don Henley,
Though I prefer Glenn Frey,
Can't you guys stop whining,
Just give it a try.....
I made it through Clinton,
and "All Those Lies"
And Life's Still "Better In The USA"
"Partytown" never dies,
It's time for some "Soul Searching"
As "The Heat Is On"
"You Belong To The City"
Freedom's NOT "Already Gone"
;)

That sea of red is a lot of scarcely populated area... including such mammoth populations such as... Montana, and Wyoming and the Dakotas.... And last time I checked... Michigan, Wisconsin, Illinois, Minnesota, and Iowa are all in the Midwest. And as far a Elitism is concerned... why don't we count the ratio of influetial artists and academic elite who are Democrats vs. Republicans? I hardly think a conjecture such as "MTV idiosts are Democrats" is enough to support your claim... besides, if you go to the MTV messageboards, you'll find plenty of conservatives... and maybe even more than liberals. Republicans have one thing to thank for their success in the South and Midwest and it isn't brains... it's brainwashing.... religion-stlye. And before you go and whine about my being ignorant for thinking that religion is brainwashing, let me go ahead and fess up... I personally think Evangelical Christianity is brain infection. A disease. There you go... have fun.

Just as a sidenote, I think it's funny how Liberalism, even in the South, is strongest in and around Universities.


Yes, the sea of red does cover vast empty spaces.  Nonetheless, I feel sense of both pity and rage when I see the electorate of impoverished states such as North Dakota and Mississippi falling for all this phony "values" crap and voting for right-wing politicians who don't give a rat's @ss about helping them economically.

Remember also, MTV is not a liberal institution, it is a corporate institution.  Corporations are not run on liberal values of social responsibility and respect for people's differences.  They are run on right-wing values of cut throat profiteering and worship of the almighty dollar.  It is not "liberals" who now bring gangsta rap and hardcore porn into your living rooms and your children's lives.  It is free enterprising corporations dishing out what sells.  Behind  Jay-Z and Jenna Jameson are Republican business execs grinning and counting fat wads of cash!

Let's have no more of this liberal media jazz.  Rush Limbaugh, Pat Robertson, and the Vivid Girls have this in common: they sell, you buy.

If you're under 30 and didn't vote, or voted for Bush, I really, REALLY hope you like military life.  My prediction is that it will take less than 2 years for a small draft, which then expands over the years. 


Of course, let's all forget the reality: that the only request for a return of the draft was sponsored entirely by DEMOCRATS.  Nobody in the administration has even mentioned the need or desire to have a draft.  Not the President, not the Secretary Of Defense, not the Joint Chief Of Staff.

In fact, short of a major war, our military is not set up for a draft.  Put simply, we do not have the equipment, the facilities, nor the bases to handle a large influx of new recruits.

A great many of the bases that were used in the past to train the numbers of recruits that would come from a draft were decomissioned during the 1990's.  And unlike the equipment that was used in the past, todays equipment is neither cheap, nor is it fast to produce.  Add to that the longer amount of time needed to train our modern military.

In WWII, a soldier could be trained to operate a tank in 2 weeks.  And the tank could be produced in a few hours.  A modern M-1 is much more complex, much more expensive, and takes much longer to produce.

The same goes with almost every other facet of the military.  Suppose we did start a draft.  Where would we train them?  The navy has only 1 training camp now, and not enough ships to employ a large increase in personnel.  The same goes with the Air Force.  We would have to have large expansions of ships and aircraft YEARS before any such draft.

Of course, I suppose the answer would be to just put them all in the Infantry.  Once again, where do we put them?  Before the 2nd Marine DIvision could be expanded, you would have to expand both the Recruit Depots in Paris Island and San Diego, and the Infantry Training Schools in Camps Lejeune and Pendleton.  Then you have to expand the facilities for housing, feeding, medical care, and everything else involved in housing thousands of new Marines.

This constant threat of a draft from Democrats is just so much hogwash.  It is a scare tactic, which for the most part is nonsense.  Short of WWIII, there will be no draft.  I just wish that people would stop useing the military to try and score political points.  They have enough to do as it is, and do not need to be used as a fear weapon against people who do not understand the reality.

This constant threat of a draft from Democrats is just so much hogwash.  It is a scare tactic, which for the most part is nonsense.  Short of WWIII, there will be no draft.  I just wish that people would stop useing the military to try and score political points.  They have enough to do as it is, and do not need to be used as a fear weapon against people who do not understand the reality.


So you're saying that Chucky will lose his bet, then?  ;D

Bush's policy of invade whoever has the most oil over the past three years has done far more to destroy any patriotism that may have united the country or even the world. 


Oh yes, those oil wells in Haiti and Afganistan are helping us so much.

Once again, I will make a point I have said over and over in the past:

If the US (and Bush) REALLY only cared about oil, WHY are we supporting Israel?  If oil was so important, all we have to do is stop support for Isreal.  THen we could get all the oil we want for almost nothing.  In fact, if we helped those that want to destroy Israel, we will probably get free oil to last until our great-great-great grandchildren are old and on Social Security.

And if it was all about oil, I am sure that in 1990, we could have made a concession with Saddam, oil in exchange for his keeping Quwait.  I am sure he would have had no problem with giving us 1/4-1/3 of Quwait oil in exchange for supporting his annexation of that nation.

Of course, that would also forget the fact that we had supported Quwait many times before then.  In fact, I seem to remember in the 1980's, Quwait paid the US government a lot of money in exchange for Navy protection of their oil tankers.  In fact, the USS Stark was struck by an Iraqi Exocet Missile, while escourting Quwaiti Oil Tankers in 1987.

Or should we have simply let Iraq annex a soverign nation against it's will?  Imagine how many American Lives would have been saved if we had let Hitler annex England.How much better would life be if we had allowed North Korea to annex South Korea.  Life would be so much better if we removed support of Taiwan, and allowed China to take it over.

This is not about oil.  It never has been, and never will be.

Of course, one thing I have not heard mentioned yet:

Bush did something that Clinton never did.  President Bush won election with a majority of the popular vote.  The last numbers I saw, he had 53% of the popular vote.  The highest Clinton ever got was 48%.

And let's not forget that seats were picked up in both the House AND the Senate.

It seems to me that the Nation did speak.  It screamed loud and clear that they like how the nation is being run, and want it to continue.  They like what Bush and the Republicans are doing.  They support the decisions made, and want more like it.

And don't forget that something almost unheard of happened: The Minoirty Leader was voted out of office in his home state.  That is yet another message.  And let's not forget that John Edwards could not even win his home state for the Kerry-Edwards ticket.

I am sure this will piss some people off, but the truth is that the nation blew off the Democrats.

Myself, I do not see this as a good thing.  Over the last 30+ years, the Democratic party has more and more become the party of the fringe kook.  The party of FDR, Trueman and Kennedy is gone.  What has risen in it's place is a party of deceipt, a party of fringe extreemists, and a party of divisive politics.

And rather then try to fix itself, anybody who speaks up and says "we are broken" gets called a "closet Republican", and blasted.  And they are just getting more and more extreme.  Unless they get their act together soon, they may be without a serious role for a decade or more.

And if you think I am kidding, look at history.  During the first half of the 20th century, the Presidency quite often moved back and forth between the two parties (not including the FDR period).  But since 1968, we have had 3 Republican presidents hold office for 2 terms.  We have had 1 Democrat hold office for 2 terms, and 1 each Democrat and Republican hold office for 1 term.  The odds are backing the Republicans there.

And since the "Angry White Male" revolt in 1994, Republicans have been taking more and more seats in Congress.  In short, they must be doing something right.  If the Republicans were so wrong, why do they get more power?  Or do you think that the American people are so stupid, that they can't make good decisions?

That sea of red is a lot of scarcely populated area... including such mammoth populations such as... Montana, and Wyoming and the Dakotas.... And last time I checked... Michigan, Wisconsin, Illinois, Minnesota, and Iowa are all in the Midwest. And as far a Elitism is concerned... why don't we count the ratio of influetial artists and academic elite who are Democrats vs. Republicans? I hardly think a conjecture such as "MTV idiosts are Democrats" is enough to support your claim... besides, if you go to the MTV messageboards, you'll find plenty of conservatives... and maybe even more than liberals. Republicans have one thing to thank for their success in the South and Midwest and it isn't brains... it's brainwashing.... religion-stlye. And before you go and whine about my being ignorant for thinking that religion is brainwashing, let me go ahead and fess up... I personally think Evangelical Christianity is brain infection. A disease. There you go... have fun.

Just as a sidenote, I think it's funny how Liberalism, even in the South, is strongest in and around Universities.



First you do know Iowa went for Bush don't you?

The University is bull.  All younger people lean liberal and that includes ones who quit high school as well.  I think it is funny how when people mature, become smarter they go more for republicans.  The 60/70's liberals are now conservatives.  The fact that you think only college students who haven't even finished yet being more liberal makes the libs. smarter shows your ignorance.

I love how the liberals can't admit they lost on issues.  Oh it was those evil Christians, yes those people and the gay marriage.  It wasn't our love affair with the UN.  It wasn't that we were weak on terrorism.  It wasn't our support for the expansion of the welfare state.  It wasn't our opposition to the second amendment.  No, couldn't have been that.

The democrats could whine,
They could complain,
But in the end they lost again.

Republicans have one thing to thank for their success in the South and Midwest and it isn't brains... it's brainwashing.... religion-stlye. And before you go and whine about my being ignorant for thinking that religion is brainwashing, let me go ahead and fess up... I personally think Evangelical Christianity is brain infection. A disease. There you go... have fun.



Another great statement from a person who supports the party of ''tolerance.''  You do know EVERY state in the US has a majority Christian population don't you?  California, New York, Massachusetts....all those blue states have majority Christian populations.  But since they went for Kerry that makes them better.  Look at Oregon, a state that went for Kerry, the constitutional amendment to ban same-sex marriage on the ballot there passed with over 60% of the vote.  Yet Kerry won that state.  Also Georgia's amendment passed with around 78% last time I looked at the returns, but yet our state went only in the low 60 percent for Bush.  Could that mean, gasp, that some democrats voted for the amendments to ban same-sex marriages?  All 11 passed, which to me is a landslide for social conservatives.

That ignorant hate-filled statement is no different from me saying ''I think all gay people should get AIDS.''  There is no difference.  Both are hate-filled, attack a certain group of people for their lifestyle, and are overall just plain ignorant.  The only difference is I would get slammed if I said that and meant it by most (if not all) democrats and even the republicans here.  But since your statement went after Christians and not gays the democrats here remained silent.  You're a hypocrite, and you outta be ashamed of yourself.  You're not even worth my time, you showed everybody what an absolute bigot you are.

I found this interesting, it shows who won which groups:

http://www.electoral-vote.com/images/exit-polls.gif

Republicans have one thing to thank for their success in the South and Midwest and it isn't brains... it's brainwashing.... religion-stlye. And before you go and whine about my being ignorant for thinking that religion is brainwashing, let me go ahead and fess up... I personally think Evangelical Christianity is brain infection. A disease. There you go... have fun.



   Enjoyed reading your post...just a question/comment on this part:

   Can a person divorce themselves from something they believe in so strongly and so fundamentally to consider any matters that influence their family and future without being influenced by their beliefs?

   I was raised in a devout Southern Baptist household.  While being guilty of having quite a hard-line against organized religion I strive to understand the devoutly religious instead of hating them. Being more empathetic I could see the deep impact this phenomenon of religion has on them.

   Regardless of how I felt about the existence of God and Creation Theory I realized the ideals and convictions these people live by are meaningful to them and their influence on society cannot be denied. Those exist in all stratum of society serving many different roles. You cannot simply discount their opinion because they believe in God, but in some way God influences many of their viewpoints. Is this unsettling to the non-believer?  It is...

   The passionately idealistic part of me has ideas, and secularism is among them. The realist in me doesn't see a society of beings capable of objective reasoning.

   Or so says my two cents...

Oh yes, those oil wells in Haiti and Afganistan are helping us so much.

Once again, I will make a point I have said over and over in the past:

If the US (and Bush) REALLY only cared about oil, WHY are we supporting Israel?  If oil was so important, all we have to do is stop support for Isreal.  THen we could get all the oil we want for almost nothing.  In fact, if we helped those that want to destroy Israel, we will probably get free oil to last until our great-great-great grandchildren are old and on Social Security.

And if it was all about oil, I am sure that in 1990, we could have made a concession with Saddam, oil in exchange for his keeping Quwait.  I am sure he would have had no problem with giving us 1/4-1/3 of Quwait oil in exchange for supporting his annexation of that nation.

Of course, that would also forget the fact that we had supported Quwait many times before then.  In fact, I seem to remember in the 1980's, Quwait paid the US government a lot of money in exchange for Navy protection of their oil tankers.  In fact, the USS Stark was struck by an Iraqi Exocet Missile, while escourting Quwaiti Oil Tankers in 1987.

Or should we have simply let Iraq annex a soverign nation against it's will?  Imagine how many American Lives would have been saved if we had let Hitler annex England.How much better would life be if we had allowed North Korea to annex South Korea.  Life would be so much better if we removed support of Taiwan, and allowed China to take it over.

This is not about oil.  It never has been, and never will be.


Personally I support the ''oil for illegals'' plan.  Basically a somewhat new idea that we demand Mexico give America 20 million barrels of oil a day to make up for the cost of ILLEGALs.  It may sound like a lot but 20 million barrels a day to a country with the amount of oil Mexico has is chump-change.  If Mexico refuses, we deport all illegals and use the national guard to seal the boarder until they back down.  I personally don't see a problem with that.

And now that we republicans hold an operational majority in the house and the senate it is time to start drilling for oil in Alaska.  Remember that remote, charmless region of the giant state of Alaska called ANWR?  It is the perfect place to decrease our need for middle eastern oil.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting free exercise thereof..."

I'm sure many of you are not worried about this because (as many have pointed out), many Americans are of the Judeo-Christian "persuasion" but many of you know, that I am not. I do respect other beliefs but I am afraid that my personal beliefs are not (and will not be) respected. I fear that the Spanish Inquasition or the witch trials will be implemented once again. I really don't want to have to go back into the "broom closet". I'm sure there are many other Pagans and other non-Judeo-Christians out there who are as fearful as I am.




Cat

   Enjoyed reading your post...just a question/comment on this part:

   Can a person divorce themselves from something they believe in so strongly and so fundamentally to consider any matters that influence their family and future without being influenced by their beliefs?

   I was raised in a devout Southern Baptist household.  While being guilty of having quite a hard-line against organized religion I strive to understand the devoutly religious instead of hating them. Being more empathetic I could see the deep impact this phenomenon of religion has on them.

   Regardless of how I felt about the existence of God and Creation Theory I realized the ideals and convictions these people live by are meaningful to them and their influence on society cannot be denied. Those exist in all stratum of society serving many different roles. You cannot simply discount their opinion because they believe in God, but in some way God influences many of their viewpoints. Is this unsettling to the non-believer?  It is...

   The passionately idealistic part of me has ideas, and secularism is among them. The realist in me doesn't see a society of beings capable of objective reasoning.

   Or so says my two cents...


GW's right about one thing, Christians do have the majority in every state... but I noted Evangelical Christianity, which automatically Xs out the largest Christian group, Catholicism with about 60 milllion adherents in this country. What I would love, GW, is religious equality among all faiths in this country... but that's not what the fundies want... they claim that they are being persecuted when in reality they have fianlly been put on the same level as all the other religions in the country. These groups don't want equality, they want a protected status where their beliefs are taught in public schools, and are mandated by law.

It isn't religion or Christianity that I have personal convictions against (not hatred for), it's the Evangelical fudamentalism that is rampant in this country because of the religious leaders like Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson. It isn't about who won the election, it isn't necessarily about gay marriage... It's about people that hold a specific belief who want to undermine the separation of church and state, and force public policy to favour their particular beliefs, and govern everyone else, who may not share those beliefs. I don't give a ****, GW, what religion has the majority, all religions are equal and no religion has a place in law-making in a free country. You want that type of $#!+, go live somewhere in the middle-east. Do I see these leaders and their loyal followers as a threat to this country? You're damn right I do! If you want to have a religion, be my guest, more power to you, but keep your $#!+ out of my life... And that goes for Christians, Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, Pagans ... etc. It just so happens that a large portion of only one of the aforementioned religious groups, are trying to impose their $#!+ on everyone else.


Make no mistake, I don't think that their religion is inferior to any of the others... I think it's the same, and it should be dealt with in such a way.

Let's not pretend like the republican party hasn't worked hard to align itself with religion. This is a tried and true political tool. The RWPM has worked tirelessly to make the GOP and Dubya appear to be the stewards of God's plan. I've been to Evangelical services countless times, and I know how the blending of religion and country has taken root. It is this philosophy, which is a central theme in Evangelical Christianity today in this country, which I cite as the 'disease' because it manipulates people's pre-existing belief in god, and it spreads like wildfire among the faithful and the encouragable youth. The followers are merely victims of this dangerous political strategy, it's the leaders who are to blame.

I'll post more later, I must go.

Just an interesting fact I heard on the TV last night (couldn't sleep so I was watching Al Franken until I dozed off...THANKS AL!!!)...Someone pointed out that GWB received more votes than ANY presidential candidate EVER, guess who's in the #2 spot?  John Kerry.


That doesn't surprise me.  The turnout was high and we have a higher population today than we did back in 1984 when Reagan held the record with 54 million votes I think.  Took a long time to beat that.

And yes Al Franken will make anyone go to sleep, 1 year on the radio and I think he hasn't hit 40 stations yet.

Oh yes, those oil wells in Haiti and Afganistan are helping us so much.

Once again, I will make a point I have said over and over in the past:

If the US (and Bush) REALLY only cared about oil, WHY are we supporting Israel?  If oil was so important, all we have to do is stop support for Isreal.  THen we could get all the oil we want for almost nothing.  In fact, if we helped those that want to destroy Israel, we will probably get free oil to last until our great-great-great grandchildren are old and on Social Security.

And if it was all about oil, I am sure that in 1990, we could have made a concession with Saddam, oil in exchange for his keeping Quwait.  I am sure he would have had no problem with giving us 1/4-1/3 of Quwait oil in exchange for supporting his annexation of that nation.

Of course, that would also forget the fact that we had supported Quwait many times before then.  In fact, I seem to remember in the 1980's, Quwait paid the US government a lot of money in exchange for Navy protection of their oil tankers.  In fact, the USS Stark was struck by an Iraqi Exocet Missile, while escourting Quwaiti Oil Tankers in 1987.

Or should we have simply let Iraq annex a soverign nation against it's will?  Imagine how many American Lives would have been saved if we had let Hitler annex England.How much better would life be if we had allowed North Korea to annex South Korea.  Life would be so much better if we removed support of Taiwan, and allowed China to take it over.

This is not about oil.  It never has been, and never will be.

Of course, one thing I have not heard mentioned yet:

Bush did something that Clinton never did. President Bush won election with a majority of the popular vote. The last numbers I saw, he had 53% of the popular vote. The highest Clinton ever got was 48%.

And let's not forget that seats were picked up in both the House AND the Senate.

It seems to me that the Nation did speak. It screamed loud and clear that they like how the nation is being run, and want it to continue. They like what Bush and the Republicans are doing. They support the decisions made, and want more like it.

And don't forget that something almost unheard of happened: The Minoirty Leader was voted out of office in his home state. That is yet another message. And let's not forget that John Edwards could not even win his home state for the Kerry-Edwards ticket.

I am sure this will tick some people off, but the truth is that the nation blew off the Democrats.

Myself, I do not see this as a good thing. Over the last 30+ years, the Democratic party has more and more become the party of the fringe kook. The party of FDR, Trueman and Kennedy is gone. What has risen in it's place is a party of deceipt, a party of fringe extreemists, and a party of divisive politics.

And rather then try to fix itself, anybody who speaks up and says "we are broken" gets called a "closet Republican", and blasted. And they are just getting more and more extreme. Unless they get their act together soon, they may be without a serious role for a decade or more.

And if you think I am kidding, look at history. During the first half of the 20th century, the Presidency quite often moved back and forth between the two parties (not including the FDR period). But since 1968, we have had 3 Republican presidents hold office for 2 terms. We have had 1 Democrat hold office for 2 terms, and 1 each Democrat and Republican hold office for 1 term. The odds are backing the Republicans there.

And since the "Angry White Male" revolt in 1994, Republicans have been taking more and more seats in Congress. In short, they must be doing something right. If the Republicans were so wrong, why do they get more power? Or do you think that the American people are so stupid, that they can't make good decisions?
I enjoyed all your posts here Mushroom :)

That doesn't surprise me.  The turnout was high and we have a higher population today than we did back in 1984 when Reagan held the record with 54 million votes I think.  Took a long time to beat that.

And yes Al Franken will make anyone go to sleep, 1 year on the radio and I think he hasn't hit 40 stations yet.

Air America has I think 37 affiliates, and not all of them carry all A.A. programming.  It's an up hill battle. There will be set backs as well as victories, but it's a battle that must be waged!  In the end, the people must realize for themselves that the Republican party does not have their interests at heart.  How many years will that take?  I don't know.  But the fight must go on!

So go ahead, Righties, jeer and sneer.  Jesus was hated by the popular religious majority in His days on Earth too!
Uhhh, I'm not equating Al Franken with Jesus, mind you.  They're both Jewish, but that's about it!

Actually, it was on TV, not radio.  And, I think it was on SkinCinemax, of all places :o 


I think Al Frenken's show comes on IFC (Independent Film Channel).

I STILL enjoy what you had to say Mushroom!

I enjoyed all your posts here Mushroom :)


Thanks R&R Fan.  :)

At least it is nice to know that somebody actually reads my posts.

The more I think about how rarely my posts are responded to, the more I now think that it may be that there IS no response possible.

I do not look at things like this in an emotional way.  I look at them as cold hard facts, and at the things that lead to them.  So often, the oposition requires emotion, and the suspension of belief to make it's case.  Reality does not matter, facts do not matter.  Only what you feel matters.

Now do not get me wrong, emotion and feelings are very important.  But it is rather hard to make a case against facts with pure emotion.  You can not dispute facts with a feeling.  You can only dispute them with facts.  And sadly, that is something that is lacking in the debate in many ways, facts.

Do I wish we were not at war?  Hell yes.  Do I wish that we were not attacked on 9/11?  Of course!  But those events happened.  And I refuse to burry my head in the sand and pretend that they did not happen.  In the same way, I will not pretend that Saddam did not sponsor international terrorism.  I also will not pretend that he did not try to have a former President of the United States assasinated.  If nothing else, that act alone is enough justification to me to have him removed from office.

One major reason I got disgusted and left here a month or so ago is that almost nobody responded to many of my posts.  But maybe, I should consider that a victory.  When something very truthfull and indisputable is said, there is no response possible.  SO maybe the deafening silence is actually confirmation of how right I am.

One thing to say about the debates here though, is that it has actually made me even more Conservative. 

Thanks R&R Fan.  :)

At least it is nice to know that somebody actually reads my posts.

The more I think about how rarely my posts are responded to, the more I now think that it may be that there IS no response possible.

I do not look at things like this in an emotional way.  I look at them as cold hard facts, and at the things that lead to them.  So often, the oposition requires emotion, and the suspension of belief to make it's case.  Reality does not matter, facts do not matter.  Only what you feel matters.

Now do not get me wrong, emotion and feelings are very important.  But it is rather hard to make a case against facts with pure emotion.  You can not dispute facts with a feeling.  You can only dispute them with facts.  And sadly, that is something that is lacking in the debate in many ways, facts.

Do I wish we were not at war?  Hell yes.  Do I wish that we were not attacked on 9/11?  Of course!  But those events happened.  And I refuse to burry my head in the sand and pretend that they did not happen.  In the same way, I will not pretend that Saddam did not sponsor international terrorism.  I also will not pretend that he did not try to have a former President of the United States assasinated.  If nothing else, that act alone is enough justification to me to have him removed from office.

One major reason I got disgusted and left here a month or so ago is that almost nobody responded to many of my posts.  But maybe, I should consider that a victory.  When something very truthfull and indisputable is said, there is no response possible.  SO maybe the deafening silence is actually confirmation of how right I am.

One thing to say about the debates here though, is that it has actually made me even more Conservative. 
Thank YOU, Mushroom...another post I totally understand and agree with :)

I will not pretend that Saddam did not sponsor international terrorism.  I also will not pretend that he did not try to have a former President of the United States assasinated.  If nothing else, that act alone is enough justification to me to have him removed from office.


A negligible connection with international terrorism and an attempt on a former president's life is enough to want Saddam removed, sure. But the number of people who have been killed in this war (excluding the enemy) is too heavy a price to pay for his removal. All the coalition and US soldiers who have died, and all the civillians... their lives were worth more than that.

1The US has had a larger connection to promoting and funding global terrorism than has Saddam. 

Actually, I just went and switched on the TV in the bedroom...it was actually the Sundance channel ;)  My apologies to Skinemax ;D


That's it. :D The Sundance Channel. I get the two confused sometimes because they both play independent films.

Yeah I guess he does have a bit of a unibrow going on there.

A negligible connection with international terrorism


FACT:  Saddam paid a $25,000 bounty to the family of any Palestinian who performed a "Homocide bombing" in Israel.

FACT:  MANY Terrorist organizations had training camps in Iraq during Saddam's reign.

FACT:  Abu Musab al Zarqawi recieved medical attention in Iraq in 2002.  He is a known Al-Queda operative, who was injured in Afganistan while fighting against the US.  He was treated in a hospital administered by Quese Hussein, and the bills were paid for by the Hussein government.

FACT:  Saddam Hussein has long given money and equipment to Hesbola.

FACT:  Saddam sheltered "Carlos The Jackal" and Abu Nidal, well known International Terrorists.

If you need some more links between Saddam and terrorism, let me know.  Trust me, this is just scratching the tip if the iceberg.

Must have been those Guardian readers' letters telling 'em to vote Kerry...



Yep, just read some of the negative (and most are negative) letters people from the USA wrote back to the Guardian newspaper:

Dear wonderful, loving friends from abroad,
We Ohioans are an ornery sort and don't take meddling well, even if it comes from people we admire and with their sincere goodwill. We are a fairly closed community overall. In my town of Springfield, I feel that there are some that consider people from the nearby cities of Columbus or Dayton, as "foreigners"- let alone someone from outside our country.
Springfield, Ohio

Have you not noticed that Americans don't give two sh**s what Europeans think of us? Each email someone gets from some arrogant Brit telling us why to NOT vote for George Bush is going to backfire, you stupid, yellow-toothed pansies ... I don't give a rat's as* if our election is going to have an effect on your worthless little life. I really don't. If you want to have a meaningful election in your crappy little island full of shi**y food and yellow teeth, then maybe you should try not to sell your sovereignty out to Brussels and Berlin, dipsh**. Oh, yeah - and brush your goddam*ed teeth, you filthy animals.
Wading River, NY

Consider this: stay out of American electoral politics. Unless you would like a company of US Navy Seals - Republican to a man - to descend upon the offices of the Guardian, bag the lot of you, and transport you to Guantanamo Bay, where you can share quarters with some lonely Taliban shepherd boys.
United States

KEEP YOUR FUC*IN' LIMEY HANDS OFF OUR ELECTION. HEY, SH**HEADS, REMEMBER THE REVOLUTIONARY WAR? REMEMBER THE WAR OF 1812? WE DIDN'T WANT YOU, OR YOUR POLITICS HERE, THAT'S WHY WE KICKED YOUR AS*ES OUT. FOR THE 47% OF YOU WHO DON'T WANT PRESIDENT BUSH, I SAY THIS ... TOUGH SH**!
PROUD AMERICAN VOTING FOR BUSH

Shame on you for using the people of Ohio like this. The US presidental election isn't just about foreign policy, it's about healthcare, taxes, education, transportation, natural resources and all manner of issues with little to no impact on the people of Britain.
We live in a globalised, interconnected world. If China shuts its borders to US imports, you better believe American companies, shareholders and workers are affected. Should US citizens therefore have a direct say in Chinese policies? No - Americans should demand that their own elected leaders address the issues with their Chinese counterparts. The British have a similar voice in US policies - through your own elected representatives who have any number of diplomatic, economic and military tools at their disposal. You vote for your leaders and we'll vote for ours. Your problem is with your leaders, not ours.
Washington DC

Real Americans aren't interested in your pansy-as*, tea-sipping opinions. If you want to save the world, begin with your own worthless corner of it.
Texas, USA

I just read a hilarious proposal to involve your readership in the upcoming US presidential election. At least, I'm hoping that it is genius satire. Nothing will do more to undermine the Democratic cause in Ohio than having patronising Brits wander around Clark County telling people how to vote. Just, for a second, imagine if the Washington Post sent folks from Ohio to do the same in Oxfordshire. I'm saying this as a Democrat, and as someone who has spent the last few years in the UK. That is, with all due respect. Please, please, be rational, and move slowly away from the self-defeating hubris.
United States

I enjoy reading your paper and agree with your politics, but this is really too much.Your plan, if carried out, will hurt the Bush opposition TERRIBLY. We cannot afford to have this associated with John Kerry or anyone else. It will be; the press is going in for a kill, days before the election.
United States

Hey England, Scotland and Wales,
Mind your own business. We don't need weenie-spined Limeys meddling in our presidental election. If it wasn't for America, you'd all be speaking German. And if America would have had a president, then, of the likes of Kerry, you'd all be goose-stepping around Buckingham Palace. YOU ARE NOT WANTED!! Whether you want to support either party. BUTT OUT!!!
United States

Please be advised that I have forwarded this to the CIA and FBI.
United States

THE AMERICAN TAXPAYERS HAVE SPENT TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS PROTECTING THE PEOPLES OF THE EU, AND WHAT DO WE GET IN RETURN. BETRAYAL, BETRAYAL, BETRAYAL. I HAVE BEEN TO YOUR COUNTRY, THE COUNTRY OF MY ANCESTORS, AND I KNOW WHY THEY LEFT.
MAY YOU HAVE TO HAVE A TOOTH CAPPED. I UNDERSTAND IT TAKES AT LEAST 18 MONTHS FOR YOUR GREAT MEDICAL SERVICES TO GET AROUND TO YOU. HAVE A GREAT DAY.
Harlan, Kentucky

Keep your noses out of our business. As I recall we kicked your as*es out of our country back in 1776. We do not require input from losers and idiots on who we vote for in our own country. Fu** off and die as*hole!!!!!
Knoxville, Iowa

Mind your own flipping business.
United States

Dear Guardian folks,
While I empathise with your plight, this attempt to influence voters by sending letters from foreigners will have a negative effect on your ultimate goal. You will cause people to empathise with the president, not the other way around. People will read these letters and say, "John Le who? Never heard of him, but who is he to tell me who to vote for?"
Ohio

Who in the hell do you think you are??? Well, I'll tell you, you're a bunch of meddling socialist pric*s! Stay the hell out of our country and politics. And another thing, John Kerry is a worthless lying sack of crap so it doesn't surprise me that a socialist rag like yours would back him. I hope your cynical ploy blows up in your cowardly faces, you bunch of mealy-mouthed morons!
United States

You radical leftwingers are worse than the Taliban. I suggest you stand back and take a good hard look at yourselves.
PS: When do you propose to add Michael Moore to your staff of lunatics?
United States

Go back to sipping your tea and leave our people alone.
Ohio

As a US citizen, I want to advise you that you and anyone that participates in subverting the US presidential election can be criminally charged and perhaps even charged as spies.
California

Source (the Guardian newspaper itself): http://www.guardian.co.uk/uselections2004/story/0,13918,1329858,00.html

Yep, just read some of the negative (and most are negative) letters people from the USA wrote back to the Guardian newspaper:


KEEP YOUR FUC*IN' LIMEY HANDS OFF OUR ELECTION. HEY, SH**HEADS, REMEMBER THE REVOLUTIONARY WAR? REMEMBER THE WAR OF 1812? WE DIDN'T WANT YOU, OR YOUR POLITICS HERE, THAT'S WHY WE KICKED YOUR AS*ES OUT. FOR THE 47% OF YOU WHO DON'T WANT PRESIDENT BUSH, I SAY THIS ... TOUGH SH**!
PROUD AMERICAN VOTING FOR BUSH





Yep, that's the spirit of the Republican party--Christian, churchly, decent, civil, thoughtful, and always reaching out to the other side!
::)

Yep, just read some of the negative (and most are negative) letters people from the USA wrote back to the Guardian newspaper:

And aren't they the most ill-informed, unthinking, bigoted pile of crap you've ever read?  I know the Grauniad's move was ill-advised, but most of them can't even think clearly enough to come up with a decent insult.  If those replies are characteristic of the population over there, it ain't surprising Bush won... and you'd need to be some kind of half-wit to think they needed copying and displaying anywhere else.

Yikes!  We're in crisis!  I know people are frustrated, but the back and forth us-them stuff is not going to be productive.  ;)

Have you not noticed that Americans don't give two sh**s what Europeans think of us? Each email someone gets from some arrogant Brit telling us why to NOT vote for George Bush is going to backfire, you stupid, yellow-toothed pansies ... I don't give a rat's as* if our election is going to have an effect on your worthless little life. I really don't. If you want to have a meaningful election in your crappy little island full of shi**y food and yellow teeth, then maybe you should try not to sell your sovereignty out to Brussels and Berlin, dipsh**. Oh, yeah - and brush your goddam*ed teeth, you filthy animals.

KEEP YOUR FUC*IN' LIMEY HANDS OFF OUR ELECTION. HEY, SH**HEADS, REMEMBER THE REVOLUTIONARY WAR? REMEMBER THE WAR OF 1812? WE DIDN'T WANT YOU, OR YOUR POLITICS HERE, THAT'S WHY WE KICKED YOUR AS*ES OUT. FOR THE 47% OF YOU WHO DON'T WANT PRESIDENT BUSH, I SAY THIS ... TOUGH SH**!

Real Americans aren't interested in your pansy-as*, tea-sipping opinions. If you want to save the world, begin with your own worthless corner of it.

Keep your noses out of our business. As I recall we kicked your as*es out of our country back in 1776. We do not require input from losers and idiots on who we vote for in our own country. Fu** off and die as*hole!!!!!

Who in the hell do you think you are??? Well, I'll tell you, you're a bunch of meddling socialist pric*s! Stay the hell out of our country and politics. And another thing, John Kerry is a worthless lying sack of crap so it doesn't surprise me that a socialist rag like yours would back him. I hope your cynical ploy blows up in your cowardly faces, you bunch of mealy-mouthed morons!


Oh my, what morals and decency you Republicans have.  This post is such a fine example of Christian values. 

Oh my, what morals and decency you Republicans have.  This post is such a fine example of Christian values. 


Exactly how do you know those people are Christians?  Or even republicans for that matter.

Exactly how do you know those people are Christians? Or even republicans for that matter.

How do you know those guys carrying signs with anarchist symbols on are Democrats?

But by and large, the response to the Guardian letters was very positive from Kerry supporters - if you read all the replies they posted, you'd have seen quite a few along the lines of "thank you for taking an interest, and we're working as hard as we can to get Bush out".  Just because the only ones you've read are the insular and insolent retorts reproduced on right-wing websites, doesn't mean that those were the only replies sent back from over there.  However, it was painfully obvious from reading those comments that the only people who welcomed them were the ones who were Kerry supporters anyway.

Who in the hell do you think you are??? Well, I'll tell you, you're a bunch of meddling socialist pric*s! Stay the hell out of our country and politics.

One has to wonder whether this fine citizen supported the war in Iraq?

Hi, Tao... I think the irony of your statement may well be lost on the sort of person who'd write that sort of quote :)

How do you know those guys carrying signs with anarchist symbols on are Democrats?

But by and large, the response to the Guardian letters was very positive from Kerry supporters - if you read all the replies they posted, you'd have seen quite a few along the lines of "thank you for taking an interest, and we're working as hard as we can to get Bush out".  Just because the only ones you've read are the insular and insolent retorts reproduced on right-wing websites, doesn't mean that those were the only replies sent back from over there.  However, it was painfully obvious from reading those comments that the only people who welcomed them were the ones who were Kerry supporters anyway.

"Oh God!" was also my sentiment, and it's worth pointing out the Guardian makes no bones about its left-leanings.  Newspapers in Britain and Europe are more open about their political points of view than American papers.  I know Murdoch's Sun tabloid declared "the world is a safer place because George W. Bush got re-elected" (or something like that).  I didn't see the headlines for the conservative London Telegaraph.

"Oh God!" was also my sentiment, and it's worth pointing out the Guardian makes no bones about its left-leanings.  Newspapers in Britain and Europe are more open about their political points of view than American papers.  I know Murdoch's Sun tabloid declared "the world is a safer place because George W. Bush got re-elected" (or something like that).  I didn't see the headlines for the conservative London Telegaraph.


  I don't see a huge letter-writing campaign aimed at a certain Aussie gentleman whose main goal in life is to meddle in our political affairs. (I am, of course, talking about Rupert Murdoch.)  But when a few Brits decide they want to merely write some letters, there is an outcry. People are stupid. They complain about being f'ed with on one end while being totally cool with being f'ed on the other.

How about this one?


http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/pop_ups/newspapers/4_november_2004/img/3.jpg




Cat

That is one of my particular favourites actually....  shame it's only the Mirror.... I love the fact it's header starts with the word "doh"

How about this one?


http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/pop_ups/newspapers/4_november_2004/img/3.jpg



Joke:

What do Yasser Arafat and 52 million Americans have in common?

They're both brain dead.


Of course, I wouldn't repeat that joke if I really thought the majority of the electorate was mentally impaired.  If I believed that, I'd at least try to humor them.  As it is, I believe they're mostly of sound mind and make bad choices for elected representatives.

http://www.kerrysucks.com/albums/Funny_kerry_pics1/kerry_golddigger.jpg

What I find most amusing is the "382" at the end (which was "087" in earlier editions) - the implication that the result is known to the nearest vote, rather than to the nearest million (approximately)

http://www.kerrysucks.com/albums/Funny_kerry_pics1/kerry_golddigger.jpg

Uh, the election is over.  Kerry lost.  Why are you still kicking at him?

I have just text that joke to all my friends in my mobile so that will do the rounds I can tell you lmao...

Uh, the election is over.  Kerry lost.  Why are you still kicking at him?



Because some people really like kicking someone when they are down-and even when they are out.



Cat

Because some people really like kicking someone when they are down-and even when they are out.



Cat

Nah, I just think the Republicn Noise Machine hasn't told these guys which liberal to demonize next, so it's still Kerry and Hillary by default.
:P

I just heard a clip of Bush saying that he wanted to "introduce God into the government"
Oh dear. This shall not go over well.
I think Canada's isn't going to seem so cold to all the Kerry voters. And when they leave, America is just going to get more conservative!
It's a vicious cycle, friends.

A poem:

By George! We've Been Out-Foxed!"
or
("Ode to the Left Be-Heinz")

When polls were closed,
We all supposed
It couldn't be much closer!
Now Libs are torn,
Downcast...Forlorn,
And Soros is moroser!

The votes were cast,
And now at last
The counting could begin.
Monsieur LaMoore
Was very sure
His flick would do George in.

But now instead,
The states are Red,
And Hollywood is Blue.
Ben Affleck's mad,
Saradon's sad,
And Whoopi's come unglued!

Begala whines,
The Left Be-Heinz,
"The Boss" just wonders..."HOW!?"
James Carville pouts,
O'Donnell shouts...
No time to Ketchup now!

The Kerry Crowd
Was brash and loud;
The cool and hip were pumped!
In Franken-Land
They took their stand...
"War Hero" John's been dumped.

At CBS?
Lord, what a mess!
Dan Rather wears a frown.
He's quite distressed...
Some say depressed.
Poor Dan,
He's goin' down.

There's "Hardball" Chris,
Who loved to kiss
The rear of liberal guests...
Convention night
Ol' Zell was right...
To that we may attest.

At CNN
It's sinkin' in...
Oh my! They're all in shock!
"Ohio's RED!"
John Kerry's Dead!"
"By George! We've been out-Foxed!"

I just heard a clip of Bush saying that he wanted to "introduce God into the government"
Oh dear. This shall not go over well.


Someone should tell Dubya, "Careful what you wish for..."
If Bush ever did introduce God into government, the first thing God would do is fire Bush and all his bloody crew!  They'd all be soaking in Satan's Jacuzzi before the morning coffee break on day 1!
::)

http://www.munfordband.com/kerry.jpg

Fox News has just projected Bush the winner of Ohio giving him 266 electoral votes.  Bush will no-doubt get 3 from Alaska, so at the very least a tie which would go to the US House which is republican held.  Bush is ahead in Nevada and New Mexico.  Also Bush's lead is EXPANDING in Ohio, and he looks very good for the US Popular vote, he may be the first President to get 50% of the popular vote since Bush Sr. in 1988.

Notice the Avatar....Bush wins.  It is all over but the lawsuits (which the democrats will lose.)


Yeah, congradulations on your candidate winning. Normally, this kind of thread would really, REALLY p*ss me off, but I realized: people are gonna be @ssholes about this, and I'm not gonna stoop to their level. So, go, you may p*ss some off, but you will not get to me.

Yeah, congradulations on your candidate winning.


Well thanks.  I'm glad the best man did win as well.

Well thanks. I'm glad the best man did win as well.

That's not quite what he said... nor exactly what happened, either.

That's not quite what he said

I know.

I have just text that joke to all my friends in my mobile so that will do the rounds I can tell you lmao...


Welcome back, Cheeky.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/cdeitrich1965/bushwinner.bmp

http://www.lacosaweb.com/chistes/iraq/bush_superman.jpg
http://zoom.cafepress.com/7/4558717_zoom.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/cdeitrich1965/bushwinner.bmp

http://www.lacosaweb.com/chistes/iraq/bush_superman.jpg
http://zoom.cafepress.com/7/4558717_zoom.jpg

The propensity of the Right for self-parody is flabbergasting!
::)

Yes, the sea of red does cover vast empty spaces. 

I know it is late, but the map clearly shows which candidate has/had the greater national appeal.

I know it is late, but the map clearly shows which candidate has/had the greater national appeal.


That would be quite true, except that the population density is not consistent across the nation and, even if it was, neither any red area nor any blue area comprises a unanimously "red" or "blue" population.  Note:  I'm not taking issue with whether your candidate has/had the greater national appeal, but with whether your map provides sufficient data to prove/illustrate that point -- it clearly does not. 

Truer words have never been spoken.  I find it funny that the map shows a majority of IL & CA as "red"...states where Kerry CLEARLY won.  Wonder if they ran out of blue ink when doing the "paint by number" ;D


Bush won a majority, even if by one vote, in every county that is red.  The fact that New York, California, and Illinois shows that the cities like San Francisco, New York, and Chicago with the super-high populations must have went very much so for John Kerry.

That sea of red is a lot of scarcely populated area... including such mammoth populations such as...


So dense was a common trait of Kerry supporters?

So dense was a common trait of Kerry supporters?


There are counties in western Nebraska with lower populations than a single Manhattan apartment building!

Again, so what you're saying is dense was a common trait of Kerry supporters, right?


Cardinal rule in comedy, if it dies, let it die!
::)

By now, most of us have probably seen the ''How can 59,000,000 people be so dumb?'' which came out in the British Mirror.

Out of all the British newspapers and tabloids, only one praised Bush's win.  The Daily Telegraph in London, England got it right, when they said the following quote:

''The triumph of his Churchillian conservatism will strike fear into all enemies of America and the west.  America is diverging from Europe: it is younger, more self-confident, more prosperous, more devout, more diligent, more democratic and, in short, more conservative.  Europe must come to terms, not only with Mr Bush, but with the nation that has elected him."  -The Daily Telegraph

At least one knows how the American public feels and thinks, and they get it right.

I don't think it will take that long, Chucky. Try 6 months-especially since the Repubs now own all branches of the government.
Cat


Opps!

http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/sehrgrosse/large-smiley-022.gif
OH, JEEZ, NOW YOU GOT ME ALL STRESSED OUT!!!

Opps!


so it's been a year and no draft.  Bush and his backers are promising "no withdrawal from Iraq" (despite being given withdrawal plans by one of the generals in charge).  The saber ratling against North Korea and Iraq is still going strong.  If Bush's approval rating was higher than 30%, what is the likelihood he would have pushed his case for another war? 

I still wouldn't rule it out.  Another war, means a need for more troops.  Enlistment targets were adjusted WAY down this year, and they still couldn't meet them, even after modifying the requirements for enlistment to allow more uneducated folks into the service. Moral is very low (the neocons blame the liberals, but the actual troops blame the administration for lack of supplies) so re-enlistment isn't going to be stellar either. 

Hey, maybe all the fighting keyboardists on the right wing blogs with blood lust will finally go down and see their recruitment officer.  That would certainly limit the need for a draft if Bush begins bombing Iran.  Nah... they only want war when it's not them doing the fighting.

Of coruse, if you withdraw from Iraq, you'll have the forces needed for Iran.  Imagine if Bush actually went after a country that realy had nuclear weapons this time.

http://chrisevans3d.com/files/iq.htm

interesting to note the voting patterns

http://chrisevans3d.com/files/iq.htm

interesting to note the voting patterns


this is old, and I think it was discredited quite awhile ago.

really?

http://bushorchimp.com/images/pic32.jpg

really?
http://bushorchimp.com/images/pic32.jpg


Yes.  Almost as old and stupid as the Bush-chimp JPG (which by the way didn't load.)

http://chrisevans3d.com/files/iq.htm

interesting to note the voting patterns
I don't think all Southerners were dumb enough to vote for Dubya!
Why do you think he had to STEAL an election!?!

A better nickname for George W. would be DUBIOUS Dubya!!

Yes George W. STOLE the election. So did Richard Nixon(via Watergate)...the only difference is that Nixon was CAUGHT with his proverbial hands in the cookie jar...Bush the second is a sneaky SOB. Which is why Dubious Dubya got away with it, with a lot of help from Ol' Jeb!!

A better nickname for George W. would be DUBIOUS Dubya!!

Yes George W. STOLE the election. So did Richard Nixon(via Watergate)...the only difference is that Nixon was CAUGHT with his proverbial hands in the cookie jar...Bush the second is a sneaky SOB. Which is why Dubious Dubya got away with it, with a lot of help from Ol' Jeb!!


The bushe boys don't have the smarts, they are the worst sort though.  The masterminds behind this are Rove and the ex-director of the CIA, george bush the first.  I always said the ugliest part of bush one is what he learned and what he allowed, while in that position. 

George W. Bush is a dips*it who IMO is clueless about this war in Iraq....and how unnecessary it is for our troops to be killed after we nabbed Saddam...enough is enough. We need to get Osama Bin Laden and his Al-Qaida nuts!