Alright folks, here we go! :D

It was not enough for Kerry to win, Bush had to lose.  Kerry really pulled his punches on the administration miserable economic performance, he did not  hammer him hard on enough on the news of complete absence of WMDs in Iraq, and Kerry neither promoted his own health care plans effectively nor did he illustrate just how rotten the administration is on health care issues.

Nonetheless, I still think Kerry won, he just didn't win big enough.
:(

A 180 degree turn from the last Bush-Kerry debate.  Bush proved he could easily hold his on against Kerry and I believe he edged Kerry out.  The ABC-Washington Post poll out shows Kerry beating by 3 points when asked ''who do you think who the second debate''?  BUT (and its a big but) they admitted they polled a larger sample of democrats, plus said that democrats are more likley to be home on Friday thus meaning undecideds in the poll lean Kerry.  Bush won this round. 

Bush was coached very well on displaying a stronger performance and on keeping himself from grimacing. However, he seemed too edgy and anxious, even interrupted Charles Gibson. Plus, he actually lied to all by stating he didn't own a particular timber company when in fact he does!! ;D No shock here.

Kerry kept his momentum and was cool as usual.

I do think he should have criticized Bush further about Iraq, especially in light of all the chaos, recent news of bombings, deaths/beheadings.

It bothers me greatly that Bush is so darned diluted about reality and seems to have no conscience when it comes to the thousands of deaths he's caused, especially in a war waged under false pretenses, unnecessarily.

Kerry did make very clear and undeniable that Bush rushed to war and broke his promise to do it as a last recourse. No doubt about it, in fact.

If Bush wins, I don't doubt armageddon will follow.

Fortunately for all of us (yes, even most die-hard republicans), Kerry will win this election and steer the United States of America into a brighter more prosperous tomorrow and regain the respect of the world. Furthermore, he will change our domestic policies for the better and improve our lives in this nation which has so much potential, but has been utterly neglected by the current president.

Vote Kerry/Edwards 2004 :) :) :)

Oh, by the way, Kerry also won this round officially.  We will see the headlines tomorrow, October 9. :D

Kerry has "Plan"...what "Plans?"....and that idiotic female reporter at the end was SO anti-Bush....she complained about the drop in jobs..and the other person replied "Have you NOT heard about the Hurricanes"....that shut her up. I thought Kerry did alright but I also thought Bush handled the Abortion stuff well.

Fortunately for all of us (yes, even most die-hard republicans), Kerry will win this election and steer the United States of America into a brighter more prosperous tomorrow and regain the respect of the world. Furthermore, he will change our domestic policies for the better and improve our lives in this nation which has so much potential, but has been utterly neglected by the current president.

Vote Kerry/Edwards 2004 :) :) :)







My faith in the judgment of the American people is severely shaken.  I cannot share your optimism.  I do hope Kerry wins, but my hope is kept in check by the grim reality of a country filled with the apathetic, the ignorant, the bigoted, and the religiously manic.

Of course Bush answered the abortion question with ease.  His administration has no domestic policy, just plutocratic directives and fundemantilist tunnel vision.

Oh, and to hear him refer to Kerry as "Kennedy" while citing that bogus statistic of Kerry being the "most liberal senator" was just painful.  He also lost his cool when Kerry criticized his so-called coalition.  Dubya reminded me of Roscoe P. Coltrane on "The Dukes of Hazzard" when he started sputtering like that.  Then Kerry said, listen, if Missouri were a country it would have the third largest number of troops in Iraq after the U.S. and Britain.  He pointed out countries are leaving, not joining, this "coalition."

Let the talking heads on teevee play it up however they like, I saw a President gasping for good things to say about four years of **** ups.  Not to mention Kerry was just babying him, real gentle like.

Kerrys biggest problem is that he actually believes that his fellow Americans actually do
listen to the substance of his words.  I don't think he truly understands how uneducated to
the whole picture that they really are and that we have become a country of soundbites and
bullet voters.  That is why the bush camp has gotten away with this flip-flop argument.  They
tell you that they are for or against something "because it is good for the American people".
Kerry will go into an explaination as to why something looks good(or bad), but there are
fine points that have to be ironed out, and when he tries to go in depth he is seen as being
long winded and out of touch with the common voter.  Well, respecting the intelligence, be it
there or not, should not be equated with out of touch, but then maybe I am out of touch, with
that.

I think Kerry won it. Bush did better than he did last week but he still seemed to be grasping at straws for answers. I though Kerry really defined his plans to take the nation forward very clearly. However, after the debate (on C-Span) they had callers give their opinions. All the ones who were for Bush didn't HEAR the plans that Kerry outlined-only that he said "I have a plan". I think that is because people hear what they WANT to hear. I do admit that Bush made me laugh when he asked, "Anyone need wood?" But of course, that was a distraction to the issue-which Bush is very good at doing.




Cat

  I've been very impresed with Bush's improved public speaking, although sometimes the bouncing-cadence, hand-waving delivery seemed more than a little affected, especially towards the end. Kerry really disappointed me competing on the "git the terrists" plank, characteristically avoiding any discussion on the motivations behind our contemporary wave of terrorism. I'm going to watch this debate again, because I was physically exhausted, and nodded off several times.

 

Oh, and to hear him refer to Kerry as "Kennedy" while citing that bogus statistic of Kerry being the "most liberal senator" was just painful. 

First off the National Journal DOES rank Kerry the most liberal senator.  Unless you can prove the National Journal didn't say that, then its not bogus is it?

I caught the Kennedy thing as well, but look Kerry made mistakes as well.  He called Charlie Gibson, John Gibson.  I think he was thinking of Fox News.

Oh, by the way, Kerry also won this round officially.  We will see the headlines tomorrow, October 9. :D


Polipundit:  Within the first 5 minutes of the second presidential debate, I’m saying Bush is cleaning Kerry’s clock.

Bill Roggio:  I would rate this debate as an outright win for President Bush.  He exceeded expectations after the first debate, was not exasperated or flustered by Kerry's remarks and defended his actions and rebutted Kerry's attacks well.

Spoons:  I think Bush was the clear winner, although Kerry did okay.

James Joyner:  I'm not sure if there was a winner on substance here.  Stylewise, both guys did quite well.  Given expectations--and the huge improvement over the first debate--that probably translates to a Bush win.

Glenn Reynolds:  ...it looks to me like a pretty solid Bush win here...

Eric Lindholm:  No contest...President Bush won hands down.

Hugh Hewitt:  No way to call this other than a big Bush win, and no amount of spin can change that.

Betsy Newmark:  I think the President was so much better tonight and Kerry was just the same.  And the more you see of Kerry, the less you're going to like him.  And the spin afterwards will be that this is a draw.  Kerry needed a knockout to continue his momentum.

Taegan Goddard:  If you were keeping score of political points, it was probably a draw.

Winston:  BUSH WINS:  He jabbed and jabbed and had a command of the issues.  Kerry fell in to the trap of barely repeating his performance last week.  Bush far exceeded his performance.  Kerry gave us nothing new and Bush gave a lot...

Mark A. Kilmer:  There can be no question about this one.  None at all.  There was one President in that hall tonight.

Michael Totten is not impressed with either candidate.

John Hawkins:  Verdict:  Draw on foreign policy, Bush wins on domestic policy.  Overall:  Bush wins

NEWSPAPER HEADLINES:

''Bush finishes tough week with improved debate performance'' - San Jose Mercury News

''The media reaction: Bush did better'' -Salon

''Bush wins'' -The Weekly Standard

''Bush wins points in second debate.'' -Edmonton Sun

''Round two: Bush'' -Christian Science Monitor

''The President is back'' -The New York Post

''Bush off ropes, scores points in second debate'' -New York Daily News

I caught the Kennedy thing as well, but look Kerry made mistakes as well.  He called Charlie Gibson, John Gibson.  I think he was thinking of Fox News.



I think what you heard was Kerry calling the asker of a question, John-whose name WAS John.


http://www.debates.org/pages/trans2004c.html


This is the transcipts from last night debate. Show me, where he called Charlie "John"



Cat

I haven't got a chance to watch the debate yet, I had to work. But I have it recorded and I'm going to watch it sometime tonight. But, glancing at the Electoral-Vote.com projections, after last night's debate, Kerry's projected votes skyrocketed and he is over thirty votes ahead of Bush.

This is the transcipts from last night debate. Show me, where he called Charlie "John"



Cat


Yeah you're right.  He was talking to someone in the crowd.  This part here (last night) confused me:

MODERATOR:  Senator, a minute-and-a-half.

SENATOR KERRY:  John, you heard the President just say that he thought he might try to be for it.

I haven't got a chance to watch the debate yet, I had to work. But I have it recorded and I'm going to watch it sometime tonight. But, glancing at the Electoral-Vote.com projections, after last night's debate, Kerry's projected votes skyrocketed and he is over thirty votes ahead of Bush.


Electoral-vote is a feel good page for democrats.  It makes people like you feel good on the inside to read a pro-liberal website.  There was an article, posted on rightnation from an a real newspaper, that explained how this guy cheats.  For example, on Florida a few months back, 3 polls came out the EXACT SAME DAY.  One showed Bush 6 points ahead.  One showed Bush 2 points ahead.  And one showed Kerry ahead by 1 point.  Which one do you think he posted?  Every time you read his comments when Bush gains electoral votes you can feel the whine, so much so Kraft is giving him a years supply of cheese to go with it.  I like realclearpolitics because they take a bunch of different polls and average them out.

Real Clear Politics: Bush: 264  Kerry:220 
National polls average out to:
Bush: 47.5  Kerry: 46.0  Nader: 1.8
WITHOUT NADER:
Bush: 47.8  Kerry 46.8
Job approval: 51.0

PLUS THIS HEADLINE WHICH CAME OUT JUST 17 HOURS AGO:  ''CNN survey: Bush maintains Electoral College lead'' -CNN

If the election were held today, Bush likely would win 301 electoral votes to Kerry's 237, according to a new CNN survey based on state polling as well as interviews with campaign aides and independent analysts. A candidate wins the election with at least 270 electoral votes, regardless of the popular vote.

Out only 17 hours ago!  Go Bush!

Rasmussen: Bush 4 points ahead, highest in our poll since before first debate.

First off the National Journal DOES rank Kerry the most liberal senator.  Unless you can prove the National Journal didn't say that, then its not bogus is it?

I caught the Kennedy thing as well, but look Kerry made mistakes as well.  He called Charlie Gibson, John Gibson.  I think he was thinking of Fox News.

The National Journal ranking was only for the year 2003, hardly reflective of a 20 year senate career.  No matter, Hannity and all that lot keep repeating the spin anyway.  Say it often in enough, it becomes true by default.

Yeah, I'll be Bush did wish he was on Faux News!

Polipundit:  Within the first 5 minutes of the second presidential debate, I’m saying Bush is cleaning Kerry’s clock.

Bill Roggio:  I would rate this debate as an outright win for President Bush.  He exceeded expectations after the first debate, was not exasperated or flustered by Kerry's remarks and defended his actions and rebutted Kerry's attacks well.

Spoons:  I think Bush was the clear winner, although Kerry did okay.

James Joyner:  I'm not sure if there was a winner on substance here.  Stylewise, both guys did quite well.  Given expectations--and the huge improvement over the first debate--that probably translates to a Bush win.

Glenn Reynolds:  ...it looks to me like a pretty solid Bush win here...

Eric Lindholm:  No contest...President Bush won hands down.

Hugh Hewitt:  No way to call this other than a big Bush win, and no amount of spin can change that.

Betsy Newmark:  I think the President was so much better tonight and Kerry was just the same.  And the more you see of Kerry, the less you're going to like him.  And the spin afterwards will be that this is a draw.  Kerry needed a knockout to continue his momentum.

Taegan Goddard:  If you were keeping score of political points, it was probably a draw.

Winston:  BUSH WINS:  He jabbed and jabbed and had a command of the issues.  Kerry fell in to the trap of barely repeating his performance last week.  Bush far exceeded his performance.  Kerry gave us nothing new and Bush gave a lot...

Mark A. Kilmer:  There can be no question about this one.  None at all.  There was one President in that hall tonight.

Michael Totten is not impressed with either candidate.

John Hawkins:  Verdict:  Draw on foreign policy, Bush wins on domestic policy.  Overall:  Bush wins

NEWSPAPER HEADLINES:

''Bush finishes tough week with improved debate performance'' - San Jose Mercury News

''The media reaction: Bush did better'' -Salon

''Bush wins'' -The Weekly Standard

''Bush, much more demonstrative than Kerry, often jumped from his seat to give forceful answers.'' -Detroit Free Press

''Bush wins points in second debate.'' -Edmonton Sun

''Round two: Bush'' -Christian Science Monitor

''The President is back'' -The New York Post

''Bush off ropes, scores points in second debate'' -New York Daily News



I'm not familiar with all those names, but I do see a lot Rightie pundits and Rightie tabloids there.  Remember, many who are saying Bush did better are not saying he did better than Kerry, just better than his own performance last time around.

It seems to me, GWB, it matters more to you that Bush is ahead in some polls than it does to demonstrate that he's actually good for the country.

I'm of the opinion that a large portion of our population has been brainwashed by right-wing sloganeering over the past 10 years.

I saw Ralph Nader on C-Span this morning.  Ralph is right.  Our government isn't just influenced by the corporations, our government is the corporations.  Kerry has to answer to the same corporate paymasters Bush does.  That is why in each presidential election the Democrat is forced to march farther and farther to the Right.  I'd call the current poisoning of our republic COG, Corporate Occupied Government. 

The difference between the GOP,  the DNC, you--GWB, and Ralph Nader and me is that we DO NOT believe the limited liability corporation has any business running our government and our lives.  We are for wresting control of the government from Big Money interests and putting it in the hands of the people, where it belongs. 

Electoral-vote is a feel good page for democrats.  It makes people like you feel good on the inside to read a pro-liberal website. 
And you dig Newsmax, Free Republic, and Drudge because....
;D ;D ;D

Yeah, Bush did better than in the first debate, but Kerry clearly won, regardless of what the right wing pundants say.  The question is, will that translate into votes on Nov. 2nd?

A candidate wins the election with at least 270 electoral votes, regardless of the popular vote.

What's the point of the popular vote again? This is the kind of statement that keeps a great number of people from voting. They feel they're wasting their time. I almost don't blame them.

If the popular vote had made a difference during the presidential election 4 years ago, Gore would have very clearly won the presidency and we would absolutely not be in this war in Iraq, we would not have lost and still be losing so, so many lives over there, there wouldn't be so many single military mothers to have given/about to give birth in the saddest baby boom, our American economy wouldn't have gone to sheeshe, millions of people wouldn't have lost so, so many jobs and healthcare, the environment would have received much better political attention and care, the same goes for education....

Under Gore, if he had won, I am extremely confident America would have been in a much better place today and prospering along with its population.

So,

What's the point of the popular vote again?

I think the electoral college should be done away with if just because of what America is experiencing today under the very wrong kind of leadership. Obviously it's not a system that works, at least not in today's age. The government is too screwed-up anymore!

If the majority of the people, the regular folk, The United States of America population, have anything to say about this election and if they can get over the sheer disappointment and disillusion from the last election where they feel their vote absolutely didn't count, Kerry will win the presidency by a long shot.

And let's not even go into the sheer coincidence that the current president’s brother, Jeb Bush, is the governor of Florida, the one single state which made the difference in George W. Bush's winning the presidency 4 years ago.

Of course, we must also try to ignore the fact that Florida's already experiencing "technical difficulties", which under today's standards, will single-handedly have a grave effect on yet another presidential election, shattering the majority of the population and our great country all over again.

Back on the main topic -

Kerry did win the debate as far as the majority of the country is concerned.

Of course, the ultra conservative Bush supporters think he won. The truth is he won but only over his own performance during the first debate. He pays for the best advice he can get and he notoriously performs better in the more casual setting of a town hall type of atmosphere. End of story.

Fortunately, the last debate will be a cinch for Kerry because it will be done in the same exact format as the first debate and it will be only about the series of topics of which Bush is completely and utterly clueless - Domestic Issues.

...and it will be only about the series of topics of which Bush is completely and utterly clueless - Domestic Issues.

I thought it was international issues about which he is clueless... he can't be *that* bad on the domestic side, can he?

I thought it was international issues about which he is clueless... he can't be *that* bad on the domestic side, can he?


As far as the vast majority of opinion polls show people love Bush and Kerry on different issues, Bush has a double-digit lead when asked on international issues, here you go in case you're curious:

Bush wins on: war on terror, war in Iraq, likability, shares your values, taxes, and social issues like abortion and gay marriage.

Kerry wins on: economy, education, social security, health care, and environment.

All that proves is that the Americans like him on international issues - not that he knows anything at all about them.  From the outside looking in, there's precious little to shout about.

I thought it was international issues about which he is clueless... he can't be *that* bad on the domestic side, can he?


No, he is also clueless about international issues but perceived to have some sort of imaginary handle on them by the extremists on his side.

It's on the news on almost every channel everyday! He absolutely has no control over the chaos, no handle (imaginary or otherwise) on anything, he has no clue or concept about how much he's screwed the U.S. and its people on both international and domestic issues. He also continues to give the very false illusion that everything's not as bad as it seems and that "we are making progress". Bush is a liar through and through.

Extremists truly need a serious heavy dose of objectivity.

Well, I watched the debate. Bush did better than usual, but that doesn't change the fact that Kerry totally won. I think Kerry could have gone in for the kill, but didn't. I think Bush relies too heavily on the notion that everybody listening, or at least the majority of those listening, are as stupid as he is. I get this because instead of ever explaining himself, he just repeats himself, and we all know how articulate Bush can be... I think Kerry is making a better connection with people, he mentioned his Catholic beliefs in regards to abortion, but said that he can't bring himself to let staples of his religious beliefs affect the way he shapes public policy, because everyone doesn't believe the same way he does. He also did well when responding to Bush's mentioning of Kerry's vote against parental notification in regards to abortion... Bush accused him of it as though it were understood by everyone that this was a bad thing, but then, BAM!!, Kerry came back with "I'm not going to require a 16 year old girl who's been raped by her father and is pregnant to then have her father notified..." And Bush also invoked Kerry's vote against the "partial-birth" abortion ban, and Kerry defended his decision with the fact that the bill didn't include a clause for the protection of the mother's own helath... . Then with that, Kerry let those who didn't already know, find out that being a leader is more than black/white, yes/no decision making... it's always more complicated than that. Bush was practically defenceless here, and he could only repeat himself again, as though Kerry hadn't just clearly pointed out his mistake.
    Well, Georgie boy, "you can run but you can't hide" from the fact that everyone knows Kerry spanked your powdered @$$ with not only the facts, but some good sense along with it!