I am curious if anybody else here has ever read this book.

Myself, I first became aware of this book while watching the movie "Talk Radio".  This movie is loosely inspired by the death of Alan Berg.  Alan Berg was a Denver radio talk show host who was assasinated by order of White Supremist Robert Matthews in 1984.

In the movie, the "Talk Show Host" got into a debate about "The Turner Diaries".  The next week, I brought it up to my Lieutenant, who urged me to read the book.  It took some doing, but finally a month later I was able to find a copy of it in a used bookstore in Downtown San Francisco.

Now first off, the book is not very thick.  It is barely 200 pages, and probably written with the vocabulary of a 6th grade reader.  But what I read chilled me.

I am going to post some more information, but I am curious if anybody else has read this book, and what they thought about it.  It gives a chilling look inside the mind of an evil person.  This is very much the "Bible" of the modern white supremist.

I am going to break this up into several smaller postings.  I know that I sometimes have a tendency to go long in my posts.  So I am going to take my thoughts on this topic one at a time.  This one is going to be how I first had contact with this book.

In 1991, I was a Marine, stationed with the Pacific Fleet Security Detachment.  I had many jobs, and one of them was an unofficial one assisting the unit's Antiterrorism Officer.

After I saw the movie "Talk Radio", I mentioned the movie to the Lt.  He told me that it was based on a real event, and then told me about "The Order".  Robert Matthews, his beliefs, and the things he did were almost all based on things he read in this book.  He then told me quite a bit more, and encouraged me to read it.

He knew I was an avid reader, often devouring 3-6 books a week.  Also at this time, he At this time, he knew I was an avid reader of "Men's Adventure" novels.  Jerry Ahern, W.E.B. Griffin, Tom Clancy, Barry Sadler, I read these and many more.  And in this book, I can see some of what would attract these readers.  But it was also obvious that while these books were largely fantasy and "good" (the good guy wins and destroys evil), The Turner Diaries were so obviously evil.

When we talked about it during the next week, he told me that this was a coming threat we would have to look out for.  He then showed me some reports from the FBI, which showed a large number of stolen weapons.  Almost all of the weapons were stollen from the US Army, and were turning up with neo-nazi groups.  Claymore Mines, M-16s, grenades, even anti-aircraft missles were being found with these groups.  Also a lot of the children of "old school" white supremists were joining the military (mostly the Army) to recieve training in these and other weapons.  This showed up in how the KKK was starting to drop the old white robes, and don the camouflage of the Military.  Groups were becomming the paramilitary groups that we know of today.

This is also when the "Militia" movement was finally getting off the ground.  Small groups of various hate groups were for the first time combining to form "super groups".  One of the largest was the "Michigan Militia".

Until I left the service in 1993, I watched the rise of such groups.  In fact, right before I left, he told me to keep my eye on the small group that was being investigated in Texas.  A month later, the entire world knew of David Koresh.

I remember watching this sad chain of events, and by the time it was over, I knew that more trouble was coming.  The fact that the Government allowed Koresh to play his games only ensured that this would happen.  Then the ending (and attempted cover-up) only ensured that the "Hatemongers" would have plenty of ammunition.

When Oaklahoma City happened, I immediately thought of The Turner Diaries.  I dug my copy out, and showed my fiancee` the part where the "Freedom Fighters" destroyed a building in much the same way.  So while the rest of the nation was looking for "Islamic Terrorists", I was one of the few that knew that the terrorists were not Foreign, but from our own country.

My Lt. knew how I would view the book, and I have been glad over the years that he encouraged me to find and read it.  He knew my wife at the time was from South America, and that both her and my son were some of the "mud people" that the book spouted such hatred for.  And because of this I have kept a close watch on "Militia Groups" whenever I get a chance.

Basic Synopsys of "The Turner Diaries":

The Turner Diaries starts with the US under a form of Martial Law.  Earl Turner is arrested along with several neighbors by Black thugs, recruited by the Jewish run US Government.  The Blacks are almost comically protrayed as stupid, and as "lustful towards white women".  And believe me, the book only gets worse.  Most of the writing is at the level that a 12 year old could comprehend.  Which is probably a good thing, since that is probably the intelligence of most of those that believe it.

The book then follows Earl Turner as he escapes, then joins an underground group of "Freedom Fighters".  Unable to live in normal society because of their lack of "National ID Cards", they live by stealing from their "opressors".  In one of the most violent segments, they go to a Jewish Deli and kill the owner, his wife, and several patrons so they could steal money.  Finally, they are able to attract the attention of the leading group in the struggle, "The Order".  This "Super Group" leads the "white race" to eventual victory.  This is more then likely where Robert Matthews got his inspiration to comit robberies to fund his own group, which he names "The Order".

Later on, Earl takes a truck loaded with AMFO explosives and uses it to blow up the FBI building in Washington DC.  And after several other battles, he is given the honor of killing himself in a suicide plane attack on the Pentagon.  However, unlike Spetember 11, he has a 60 Kiloton nuclear explosive in his airplane.

This book has inspired some of the worst terrorist events in this nations history.  From the robbery and murder spree of Robert Matthews, to Timothy McVeigh, to the second husband of Robert Matthew's widow, Buford Furrow.

ANd it is obvious that not just White Supremists have read it.  Al-Queda ("The Base") seems to have taken some pages from it as well.  In 1993, they detonated an AMFO bomb in the basement of the World Trade Center.  This was how the FBI attack was done on the book.  And then in 2001, they flew a plane into the Pentagon.  Only instead of a Piper with a 60 kiloton Nuclear explosive, it was a commercial airliner full of passengers and fuel.

I encourage everybody to read this book, if just to see how "these people" think.  They are vile, sick, and determined.  I only hope that someday in the future, people who think like this will realize how wrong they are, and abandon their hatred.

I don't believe in censorship, but on the other hand, if you must purchase "The Turner Diaries," try to find a second-hand copy.  I hate the thought of more $$$ going to its author and primary distributer, the white supremecist William L. Pierce.  Pierce wrote under the pseudonym "Andrew McDonald."  Pierce is still the director of the white supremecist organization "The National Alliance" located in West Virginia.

Oh, when he's not badmouthing the Blacks and the Jews, Pierce is busy explaining how he's NOT a white supremecist, he is a white separatist.  Yeah, right!
:P

I don't believe in censorship, but on the other hand, if you must purchase "The Turner Diaries," try to find a second-hand copy.  I hate the thought of more $$$ going to its author and primary distributer, the white supremecist William L. Pierce.  Pierce wrote under the pseudonym "Andrew McDonald."  Pierce is still the director of the white supremecist organization "The National Alliance" located in West Virginia.

Oh, when he's not badmouthing the Blacks and the Jews, Pierce is busy explaining how he's NOT a white supremecist, he is a white separatist.  Yeah, right!
:P


I got my copy 2nd hand, because no reputable bookstore would carry it new.  I actually found it under the Sci-Fi section!  But nowadays, you do not have to buy it.  THere are many places where it can be read on-line.  My current copy is in PFD format.

And actually, he is not badmouthing anybody anymore.  William Poerce has been pushing up daisys since 2002.  I seriously believe that there is a special place in Hell for people like him.

Here is an obituary written for him by some of his racist friends:

http://www.natvan.com/wlp.html

And while I can somewhat agree with the IDEA of sepratism, I feel it is wrong.  We are a nation (and world) of many different peoples, who live together to make it better for everybody.  If somebody truely wishes to be "seperate", then they should move someplace, like maybe that little island that Tom Hanks found in the movie "Castaway".  That way, they could preach their hatred to coconuts and fish, and leave the rest of us alone.

Robert Matthews also classified himself as a "White Separatist".  Myself, I see no difference between a group like "The Order", and "The Move".

And actually, he is not badmouthing anybody anymore.  William Poerce has been pushing up daisys since 2002.  I seriously believe that there is a special place in Hell for people like him.

Here is an obituary written for him by some of his racist friends:


Oh, I forgot he croaked.  That's right.  Didn't Richard Butler also kick the bucket a little while ago?

Oh, I forgot he croaked.  That's right.  Didn't Richard Butler also kick the bucket a little while ago?


Yep, and myself and a bunch of others in here were dancing in celebration (oh, I'm sorry, I mean dancing in the memory of, we do not celebrate the death of people).

While I do not hate people like this (I feel sorry for them), I do not shed any tears when they go to meet the Maker.  I find it hard to picture the kind of Heaven they must believe in.  I guess to them, Heaven would be living in the "1,000 year Reich", with Hitler giving speaches and Stormtroopers marching down the streets.  Hopefully, it is more like the Streets of Berlin in 1945, with their Parkinson's shaking Hitler pinning medals on 12 year old boys, his empire in shambles.

In a documentary on the Civil Rights Movement that I show My US history students Andrew Young describes these "skin heads" as young men that society has left behind.  I'd love to see a sociological profile of these people.  But let us remember that they can't be racists (according to GWB) because there is no racism any more in the US. 

And Mushroom, you make it very clear that you are a decent and moral person, politically misguided maybe  ;), but still  a good person.

I don't believe in censorship, but on the other hand, if you must purchase "The Turner Diaries," try to find a second-hand copy.  I hate the thought of more $$$ going to its author and primary distributer, the white supremecist William L. Pierce.  Pierce wrote under the pseudonym "Andrew McDonald."  Pierce is still the director of the white supremecist organization "The National Alliance" located in West Virginia.

Oh, when he's not badmouthing the Blacks and the Jews, Pierce is busy explaining how he's NOT a white supremecist, he is a white separatist.  Yeah, right!
:P


Close, but only for personal reasons will I correct you. It was Andrew Macdonald, with an Mac and no capital D... at least, when I saw the book that's the inscription it had. No big deal, but I'd like to have as little connection as possible to that loon...lol.

Close, but only for personal reasons will I correct you. It was Andrew Macdonald, with an Mac and no capital D... at least, when I saw the book that's the inscription it had. No big deal, but I'd like to have as little connection as possible to that loon...lol.

BTW, what is this thing you've got with McDonald's?  Are you on the payroll?

BTW, what is this thing you've got with McDonald's?  Are you on the payroll?


I use this icon 'cause my surname is McDonald and I think it's funny because I am a cheesey loser.

Hey Max,

I notice Depeche Mode's album 'Speak and Spell' in your posts. I hear it's a good album but there are two versions, one UK one US. The UK release has the song "I Sometimes Wish I was Dead" which I hear on some other boards is supposed to be a great song. Alas, the US edition doesn't have it... Which one is your photo of? And which one do you own?

I use this icon 'cause my surname is McDonald and I think it's funny because I am a cheesey loser.

Oh, your name is McDonald, so that's it!  I was pretty sure it was an ironic icon, as you say, "I will own you," and "Down with  Wal-Mart."  BTW, Wal-Mart is particularly horrible.  The more I find out about that company, the less I want to patronize the place.  I mean, I'm not one of these PC liberals who goes looking for every offensive thing a company does so I can scream "Boycott!," but Wal-Mart seems to fight against everything I think is worth fighting for.
Anyway, why the epithet "cheesy loser."  Seems harsh.  I myself fight chronic low self esteem.

As do I, but mostly that was just me joking. I have terrible self esteem, but I usually don't see myself as a (complete) loser, and I am totally not cheesey, in fact, the one thing I hate more than the RWPM is cheesiness in comtemporary TV and Film... It disgusts me because it plays to the lowest common denominator, the dumbest guy in the house, and I take it as an insult to the intelligence.

Hey Max,

I notice Depeche Mode's album 'Speak and Spell' in your posts. I hear it's a good album but there are two versions, one UK one US. The UK release has the song "I Sometimes Wish I was Dead" which I hear on some other boards is supposed to be a great song. Alas, the US edition doesn't have it... Which one is your photo of? And which one do you own?

I discovered Depeche Mode just as they started breaking in the U.S. in '84, and I got the "Speak & Spell" album shortly thereafter.  I never saw the U.K. version cover art for the vinyl.  I don't know why they went with such an abbreviated version of the picture for the U.K. CD, it's doesn't even show the whole swan.  Anyway, I now have the UK CD version, including "Sometimes I Wish I was Dead."  "Dreaming of Me" was included on the U.S. version, but it's listed as a bonus track on the U.K. CD.
I had the cover art for "A Broken Frame" up there for a few weeks.  Before that it was bands like Blancmange, and Ultravox.  I suppose my choices are a holdover from my start on inthe00s when I was posting mostly on the '80s board.  
I still love a lot of the music I listened to in the '80s, but there really aren't any current pop groups I like.  All the music I have been delving into for the past ten years is rather esoteric.  I put pictures of some of my favorite composers up there, such as John Cage, Harry Partch, and Pauline Oliveros, but nobody else knows how they are so it flopped.  Besides, the pop music of the '80s theme is much more with the pop culture spirit of inthe00s.
Sorry to blab your ear off there!
::)

As do I, but mostly that was just me joking. I have terrible self esteem, but I usually don't see myself as a (complete) loser, and I am totally not cheesey, in fact, the one thing I hate more than the RWPM is cheesiness in comtemporary TV and Film... It disgusts me because it plays to the lowest common denominator, the dumbest guy in the house, and I take it as an insult to the intelligence.

It's the lowest common denominator in all realms of human endeavor, and the goal of television is to drive the denominator ever lower.  As Gore Vidal said, "television is a barrel with no bottom."