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This is a topic from the Current Politics and Religious Topics forum on inthe00s.
Subject: A Question for our Non-American Friends
Written By: CatwomanofV on 10/01/04 at 1:36 pm
You have been witness to right/left battles that have been going on here. I am just wonder what is your opinion about American politics as a whole-not who is right who is wrong type thing but how we Americans deal with politics. Just wondering.
Cat
Subject: Re: A Question for our Non-American Friends
Written By: philbo on 10/01/04 at 3:12 pm
It's rather depressing from where I'm looking: the way things seem from here is not so much that Kerry has won the arguments, but that Bush holds what should clearly be an untenable position, vis-a-vis US relations with the outside world (including Iraq, Israel and Europe), domestic policy, etc. This may not be immediately apparent as the standard of debate is constantly dragged down into the gutter by lies, innuendo and rumour: I find it doubly depressing in that it really does seem that people are swayed by this sort of bulls41t. The Republican side are using every dirty political tactic in the book: I'm not saying the Democrats are all angels, but there's a difference in scale - more scurrilous (not to mention downright libellous) comments have come out about Kerry in the past few weeks than about GWB in total - and some people (mentioning no names here) seem to think that to trot out an allegation that has been proven false already somehow means they've scored some kind of debating point.
Subject: Re: A Question for our Non-American Friends
Written By: MaxwellSmart on 10/01/04 at 3:42 pm
It's rather depressing from where I'm looking: the way things seem from here is not so much that Kerry has won the arguments, but that Bush holds what should clearly be an untenable position, vis-a-vis US relations with the outside world (including Iraq, Israel and Europe), domestic policy, etc. This may not be immediately apparent as the standard of debate is constantly dragged down into the gutter by lies, innuendo and rumour: I find it doubly depressing in that it really does seem that people are swayed by this sort of bulls41t. The Republican side are using every dirty political tactic in the book: I'm not saying the Democrats are all angels, but there's a difference in scale - more scurrilous (not to mention downright libellous) comments have come out about Kerry in the past few weeks than about GWB in total - and some people (mentioning no names here) seem to think that to trot out an allegation that has been proven false already somehow means they've scored some kind of debating point.
They say you get a warped perspective because your press is anti-American. The same right-wingers say I'm un-American. If you don't agree with the Bush Administration, you're either anti-American, or un-American.
Subject: Re: A Question for our Non-American Friends
Written By: philbo on 10/01/04 at 3:50 pm
They say you get a warped perspective because your press is anti-American. The same right-wingers say I'm un-American. If you don't agree with the Bush Administration, you're either anti-American, or un-American.
The "if you don't agree with us, you're unpatriotic" argument is the first line defence for a charlatan - you know at that point they haven't got a decent argument...
Parts of the press are fairly anti-US; there's a lot more that's very pro-US/anti-Europe - I'd argue that the BBC is probably the most unbiased news source, certainly in the UK and probably the world. With only one or two noteworthy exceptions, BBC news can be trusted - tell me, can you get it piped in on cable/satellite over there?
Subject: Re: A Question for our Non-American Friends
Written By: CatwomanofV on 10/01/04 at 6:30 pm
Parts of the press are fairly anti-US; there's a lot more that's very pro-US/anti-Europe - I'd argue that the BBC is probably the most unbiased news source, certainly in the UK and probably the world. With only one or two noteworthy exceptions, BBC news can be trusted - tell me, can you get it piped in on cable/satellite over there?
Yup we can. But I must confess, I don't watch it. The only broadcast news I watch is either CNN or C-Span. I get all my other news from our local newpaper and other sources on-line (i.e. Rueters, AP, Washington Post, etc.)
Cat
Subject: Re: A Question for our Non-American Friends
Written By: Bobo on 10/02/04 at 12:22 am
I'm not so much an expert on this topic as a whole, however..
Yesterday afternoon, they actually did show the US Presidential debate on BBC2, as a live news feed from News 24, replacing for one hour the advertised schedule on that channel. (IOW, it was not advertised, but they did show it).
BTW, did any of the stations over there televise the debates?
Subject: Re: A Question for our Non-American Friends
Written By: MaxwellSmart on 10/02/04 at 12:49 am
From where i'm standing, American politics does seem very black and white... in other words, you are either left (liberal, democrat) or right (conservative, republican). There is no real grey area. Thats just going by what I have seen. It could be alot different...
The Bush Administration has been very much "You're either with us or against us." So I'm against them. I'm not conservative, but neither are they. I'm your classical liberal humanist, they're Jesus-on-crack fascist far-right crazies! Sometimes they get the right diagnosis on a social issue or two, but their prescriptions are just NUTS-O (for lack of eloquence at this moment)!
In fact, Bill O'Reilly, you know, "The O'Reilly Fascist," was just saying liberals see things in shades of gray and "traditiononalists" (his euphemism for right-wing fundamentalist loons) see things in black and white, and "Bush definitely sees things in black and white." I wanted to interject and say, we liberals are the ones who see in COLOR, but I just found out last week he can't hear me on the other side of the screen!
:P
Subject: Re: A Question for our Non-American Friends
Written By: BrianMannixGirl on 10/02/04 at 4:34 am
hmmm I have never pretended to even understand politics and what I really cant fathom is how passionate a country can get when only about 10% of you actually vote !
I would love to see what kind of results you got in US elections with compulsary voting.
Australians go to the polls on October 9. I can safely say over here we dont give a damn who served or didnt serve in Vietnam, we dont go nuts with banners and stupid hats at "conventions", we have a televised debate but its never very exciting - especially since the opposition leader is about as talented as GWB when it comes to unscripted speaking.
All its going to come down to on Oct 9 is who will do the most for me as an australian when it comes to my retirement funds, my taxes, and the security of my country - including a strong immgration policy.
Other than that I look at who I prefer to represent me overseas when meeting other world leaders.
Our current PM is a polished public speaker, always immaculately dressed, fit and active, intelligent, and a bit of an old fashioned gentleman in his mid 60s.
His opposition is a mid 40's overweight slob whose shirt always looks like he has just come from the toilet and forgot to retuck properly. He has been charged with assault several times in the past few years - breaking a taxi drivers arm on one occassion, pushing an elderly gentleman to the ground, and his first wife has hinted there was violence in their marriage. He has called other politicians things I prefer not to type here.
So I can safely say - regardless of their policies - I cringe at the thought of the violent offensive slob being elected and then popping over to the Uk or US to meet leaders there. What a complete embarrassment to our country.
Subject: Re: A Question for our Non-American Friends
Written By: Gecko on 10/02/04 at 7:07 am
hmmm I have never pretended to even understand politics and what I really cant fathom is how passionate a country can get when only about 10% of you actually vote !
I would love to see what kind of results you got in US elections with compulsary voting.
Australians go to the polls on October 9. I can safely say over here we dont give a darn who served or didnt serve in Vietnam, we dont go nuts with banners and stupid hats at "conventions", we have a televised debate but its never very exciting - especially since the opposition leader is about as talented as GWB when it comes to unscripted speaking.
I think BMG summed up how I feel American politics is represented by our media - what we see is people getting excited or fanatics getting worked up. Aussies don't really care that much about our elections. It's more a case of "oh no, not another election - what date do we have to vote?" Elections seem to come around all the time - be it council elections, state or federal elections. We just don't get overly excited by it - just annoyed by all the political ads we have to put up with.
A question for you BMG - I have always thought that one of our most embarrassing politicians was Alexander Downer. I mean, he goes overseas to represent us?! ::) Please!! What do you think? Is he an embarrassment or what?
Subject: Re: A Question for our Non-American Friends
Written By: mandamoo on 10/03/04 at 2:15 am
To be honest, it's the first time I've actually ventured into this sub-board. My view for what it's worth, is that you are a very passionate nation and there's nothing wrong with a bit of passion, IMO. :)
On a local level and as mentioned by BMG, we have our own Federal election in less than a week and personally, I take my right to vote responsibilities seriously.
Subject: Re: A Question for our Non-American Friends
Written By: conker on 10/04/04 at 7:55 am
It is kind of amazing to see the split of left and right. We have some of that here but not to as great an extent. The governing party here steals from both the left and right to try and hold down the middle ground.
the religious aspects that creep into the politics of the country that first enshrined the separation of church and state are kind of frightening (maybe not the right word).
Being your closest neighbour we have access all of your news sources (except Fox News Network for GWB) plus our own and BBC and some French services from France so I feel we have a fairly good idea of the mood.
I cannot fathom why it's always black and white us vs. them etc is there no compromise anymore? When Clinton won the Republicans screamed for eight years and tried to toss him out of office with some partisan investigations. then when Bush won it was hanging chads and screaming Dems for the past four years.
I can understand why fewer and fewer people vote each election, who really wants to put up with that crap that goes on.
Where are the policy discussions, the advocates for the regular working man be he left or right. Bush seems to be campaigning for the oil industry and the military industrial complex and Kerry for the special interests. What about the guy on the street who want accountability in government, a bit of support in old age and when times are tough and no big waste in $$ he works hard for.
Subject: Re: A Question for our Non-American Friends
Written By: Davester on 10/04/04 at 8:10 am
It is kind of amazing to see the split of left and right. We have some of that here but not to as great an extent. The governing party here steals from both the left and right to try and hold down the middle ground.
the religious aspects that creep into the politics of the country that first enshrined the separation of church and state are kind of frightening (maybe not the right word).
Being your closest neighbour we have access all of your news sources (except Fox News Network for GWB) plus our own and BBC and some French services from France so I feel we have a fairly good idea of the mood.
I cannot fathom why it's always black and white us vs. them etc is there no compromise anymore? When Clinton won the Republicans screamed for eight years and tried to toss him out of office with some partisan investigations. then when Bush won it was hanging chads and screaming Dems for the past four years.
I can understand why fewer and fewer people vote each election, who really wants to put up with that crap that goes on.
Where are the policy discussions, the advocates for the regular working man be he left or right. Bush seems to be campaigning for the oil industry and the military industrial complex and Kerry for the special interests. What about the guy on the street who want accountability in government, a bit of support in old age and when times are tough and no big waste in $$ he works hard for.
  One would think the "Left" and the "Right" would seek balance between their views. Instead, America, as you pointed out, is stuck in the sh*tfest of propaganda politics that does nothing but serve the interest of political "parties", not the people.
  As long as it's about Left and Right, I agree entirely. Of course, making it about left and right--that's the problem in the first place. Americans care more about representing representations of themselves than they do actually representing themselves.
Subject: Re: A Question for our Non-American Friends
Written By: FussBudgetVanPelt on 10/04/04 at 8:45 am
To be honest, it's the first time I've actually ventured into this sub-board. My view for what it's worth, is that you are a very passionate nation and there's nothing wrong with a bit of passion, IMO. :)
On a local level and as mentioned by BMG, we have our own Federal election in less than a week and personally, I take my right to vote responsibilities seriously.
Well said. I intend voting based on the issues that affect my existence in my country. Issues that affect my children, taxes, superannuation, welfare, and yes, even security.
Thank you Michael Moore, for bothering to insult us all a few months ago, with your views on Australia and our involvement in Iraq. It would be easy to take personally if you hadn't managed to insult most other people in the world round about the same time ::) :)
But we intend to vote on what affects us as a Nation. Our alliance or otherwise with the US or the Coalition is NOT the only thing we will be basing our decisions on ...
To answer Cat's question : My impression is far too much un-necessary hoop-la ::) For goodness' sake, it's just an election. ::) VOTE already ;D
On the other hand, I LIKE that your system has a specified timeframe between elections. Under the Westminster system of Government, the incumbent Government has control (to an extent) over the timing of the poll, and that BLOWS big time >:(
Subject: Re: A Question for our Non-American Friends
Written By: GWBush2004 on 10/04/04 at 9:22 am
.
Thank you Michael Moore, for bothering to insult us all a few months ago, with your views on Australia and our involvement in Iraq. It would be easy to take personally if you hadn't managed to insult most other people in the world round about the same time ::) :)
WELL SAID! Most Americans don't like that annoying SOB much either. I wish he'd just leave if our country is so bad and evil, especially since he said we Americans are the dumbest people on the planet. Until the liberals decide to leave the Church of St. Michael Moore, we'll keep getting retarded independent films from him about issues no one cares about.
Subject: Re: A Question for our Non-American Friends
Written By: karen on 10/04/04 at 11:36 am
Other than that I look at who I prefer to represent me overseas when meeting other world leaders.ÂÂ
Our current PM is a polished public speaker, always immaculately dressed, fit and active, intelligent, and a bit of an old fashioned gentleman in his mid 60s.
Bet he wouldn't put his arm round the Queen like what's his face!
His opposition is a mid 40's overweight slob whose shirt always looks like he has just come from the toilet and forgot to retuck properly. He has been charged with assault several times in the past few years - breaking a taxi drivers arm on one occassion, pushing an elderly gentleman to the ground, and his first wife has hinted there was violence in their marriage. He has called other politicians things I prefer not to type here.
Unlike this guy, who sounds like he might do worse than that. And, having read what other Australian politicians have called people, he must be pretty ripe in his language!
Subject: Re: A Question for our Non-American Friends
Written By: Alchoholica on 10/04/04 at 3:15 pm
Just on the Moore point, yeah the guy is funny and raises some generally interesting points (and hell any anti bushies can come join me for a beer anytime) but they guy is kind of a bit toooooo extreme for my liking. Like he will talk about fair treatment of Black men and women, fine great, im all for everyone being equal, notice the word EQUAL. Mr moore likes to spout things like Kill Whitey and what not, sorry Mike but how about just not kill Blackey, that's fine with me.
If anybody would actually like to read good liberal views on Bush and his cronies without being told to kill there nice neighbours, then they should invest the $20 or whatever it is in 'Lies and The Lieing Liers that tell them' (Blurry eyed dyslexia is kicking here) by Al Franken.
Man Franken is a genius, the guy literally had me laughing out loud with some of the stuff he talks about.
Subject: Re: A Question for our Non-American Friends
Written By: MaxwellSmart on 10/04/04 at 4:32 pm
Just on the Moore point, yeah the guy is funny and raises some generally interesting points (and hell any anti bushies can come join me for a beer anytime) but they guy is kind of a bit toooooo extreme for my liking. Like he will talk about fair treatment of Black men and women, fine great, im all for everyone being equal, notice the word EQUAL. Mr moore likes to spout things like Kill Whitey and what not, sorry Mike but how about just not kill Blackey, that's fine with me.
If anybody would actually like to read good liberal views on Bush and his cronies without being told to kill there nice neighbours, then they should invest the $20 or whatever it is in 'Lies and The Lieing Liers that tell them' (Blurry eyed dyslexia is kicking here) by Al Franken.
Man Franken is a genius, the guy literally had me laughing out loud with some of the stuff he talks about.
Yeah, Moore's a big mouth, so I recommend a more discerning approach to his work. Some times he hits the nail on the head, other times he dabbles in exaggeration and propaganda. I agree with you on Franken! He's got more talent in his little figure than Limbaugh has in his whole bloated corpus, on loan from God or not!
Subject: Re: A Question for our Non-American Friends
Written By: Bobby on 10/04/04 at 5:19 pm
I, like a lot of people have mentioned, see a black/white trend in American politics and understand that Bush has created this divide himself (you're either with me or against me). I see a lot of people quabbling on the board over party propaganda on both sides of the spectrum. Britain can resort to dirty tricks (often shown in tabloid newspapers) but tends to be less aggressive about it.
I'm not sure Britain feels the same way about politics as America does. Sure, people would like to see a political party in power who will do the country justice but on the whole, feel very cynical about the whole thing.
Subject: Re: A Question for our Non-American Friends
Written By: GWBush2004 on 10/04/04 at 5:37 pm
then they should invest the $20 or whatever it is in 'Lies and The Lieing Liers that tell them' (Blurry eyed dyslexia is kicking here) by Al Franken.
Man Franken is a genius, the guy literally had me laughing out loud with some of the stuff he talks about.
I think its time for me to go all out on Al Franken. I am sick of the liberal worship of this man. So now I post all his LIES from his book ''Lies'' as told by www.frankenlies.com.
''.....with 14 researchers, I could do something my my targets seem incapable of doing, get my facts straight.'' -Al Franken in Lies on page XIII and ''Telling the truth is something I take seriously, and I hold myself to an impossibly high standard.'' -Al Franken in Lies on page 352.
14 HARVARD RESEARCHERS! AN ''IMPOSSIBLY HIGH STANDARD!'' WHAT MORE COULD ONE ASK FOR? THE TRUTH MAYBE?
AL FRANKEN, LIE #1:
--Is Al Franken so determined to defend President Clinton’s record on terrorism that he has to make things up? What about those 14 Harvard researchers? On pages 109-110 (paperback, pp. 117-118) of Lies, Franken writes,
"Ramzi Yousef, Abdul Hakim Murad, and Wali Khan Amin Shah are all currently behind bars ... They were involved in plots to kill the Pope and blow up twelve U.S. jetliners simultaneously. But neither happened. ... Why? Because Clinton thwarted them. He thwarted them all."
The truth? The plot to kill the Pope was thwarted by Philippine officials in January 1995, less than one week before the pontiff’s arrival in Manila!1 Abdul Murad was captured after he and Yousef accidentally started a fire in their apartment while trying to mix explosives. Upon interrogation, Murad confessed to the plot to kill the Pope.2
Murad also confessed the details of a plan called Bojinka, the plot to blow up a dozen U.S. airliners.3
When Murad was handed over to the F.B.I. months later, the work (and heroics) had already been done ... by Philippine law enforcement!
The truth is that Bill Clinton had as much to do with thwarting these plots as much as, well, as much as Al Franken did. How many Harvard researchers was that again?
AL FRANKEN, LIE #2:
--On page 256 (paperback, p. 265) of Lies, Franken charges that the Republican party in Florida set out to "deliberately purge" "tens of thousands of blacks" before the 2000 presidential election. Franken doesn’t cite any source for this claim. No wonder.
The truth is that long before the 2000 election, the voter rolls in Florida were a monstrous mess, and voter fraud was a big problem. For example, a man named Manuel Yip was a regular voter who cast ballots four times between 1993 and 1997.1 But when the 2000 election rolled around, his name was nowhere to be found on the voter rolls. Why? Was it a Florida Republican Party gone rabid, as Franken would claim, trying to "deliberately purge" potentially damaging Democratic votes? Was Yip a convicted felon? The answer is no to both. Yip had been dead for nearly eight years.2 Yet he had cast ballots in four Florida elections.3 This should amaze everyone but Shirley MacLaine.
It was actually the law and duty of the government of Florida to try to reform the voter rolls before the 2000 election. Back in 1998, they passed major legislation in an attempt to mend their badly broken system.4 Were mistakes made in the ensuing two years in trying to clean things up? It appears so. But were "tens of thousands" of blacks "purged" from the rolls as part of a vast, right-wing, Republican, racist maneuver, as Franken so clearly implies? With the facts, the answer should be no.
By the way, the Miami Herald’s 1997-1998 investigation into Miami’s vote fraud was so explosive, it earned the paper The Pulitzer Prize for Investigative Reporting in 1999. (The piece was first published on February 1, 1998).5 Say hello again to Franken’s "impossibly high standard."
FRANKEN LIE, #3:
--Popular Fox News host Bill O’Reilly is proud of his upbringing in the well-known, post-World War II, working-class community of Levittown, Long Island, in New York. On page 74 of Lies (p. 78 in the paperback), Franken tries to tell his audience that O’Reilly is not from Levittown, but from the "affluent suburb" of Westbury, which, according to Franken, is "several miles apart" from Levittown. Yikes! Did someone momentarily lose sight of his "impossibly high standard"?
On the April 12, 2004, episode of The O’Reilly Factor, Bill exhibited the actual deed from his boyhood home for all his audience to see. Only the street location was covered. (His mother still lives there.) The words "Levittown, New York" were clearly displayed in reference to the home’s location. Don't believe it? Its still posted at www.billoreilly.com.
FRANKEN LIE, #4:
-- In a silly passage on Bush strategist Karl Rove, Franken writes on page 146 (p. 156 of the paperback) of Lies that Rove
"orchestrated the most complete takeover of Texas since Sam Houston routed Santa Anna at the Battle of San Jacinto. (Sam Houston was later killed at the Alamo by terrorists.)"
Oops. Sam Houston was not killed at the Alamo. Sam Houston died of pneumonia in 1863, some 27 years after the Alamo.1 This slip is particularly embarrassing considering the fact that the battle cry at San Jacinto was "Remember the Alamo!"2 Let’s hope none of those 14 Harvard researchers are history majors.
NEED MORE, READ FROM COVER TO COVER: www.frankenlies.com. Over 25 lies from Al Franken and his book 'Lies.'
Subject: Re: A Question for our Non-American Friends
Written By: MaxwellSmart on 10/04/04 at 8:49 pm
Hey, GW, sorry if I got under your skin with that "more talent than Limbaugh in his little finger" remark.
:D
Did you happen to see Ann Coulter on H&C tonight? Boy, that lady's gone stark-raving crazy!
Subject: Re: A Question for our Non-American Friends
Written By: RockandRollFan on 10/04/04 at 8:58 pm
Thank you Michael Moore, for bothering to insult us all a few months ago, with your views on Australia and our involvement in Iraq. It would be easy to take personally if you hadn't managed to insult most other people in the world round about the same time ::) :)
Oh PLEASE don't speak ill of "American Hero" Michael Moore....many young impressionable peole just LOVE him...he's a BIG soft Teddy bear of a "Man" (Just ask Linda Ronstadt) who just wants us all to belive his movies full of CRAP!
Subject: Re: A Question for our Non-American Friends
Written By: MaxwellSmart on 10/04/04 at 9:04 pm
Oh PLEASE don't speak ill of "American Hero" Michael Moore"....many young impressionable peole just LOVE him...he's a BIG soft Teddy bear of a "Man" who just wants us all to belive his movies full of CRAP!
Teddy Bear? I wouldn't let Michael Moore in my bed, even if my girlfriend wanted to....bring him! I hope I can put that thought out of my mind.
:P
Grrrr...we just hate hate hate Michael Moore! Ack! Michael Moore is the anti-christ!
Subject: Re: A Question for our Non-American Friends
Written By: RockandRollFan on 10/04/04 at 9:07 pm
Teddy Bear? I wouldn't let Michael Moore in my bed, even if my girlfriend wanted to....bring him! I hope I can put that thought out of my mind.
:P
Grrrr...we just hate hate hate Michael Moore! Ack! Michael Moore is the anti-christ!
The way Linda talks about him he is a GOD ::)
Subject: Re: A Question for our Non-American Friends
Written By: MaxwellSmart on 10/04/04 at 9:28 pm
The way Linda talks about him he is a GOD ::)
I assume you mean Ronstadt. Now seriously, she talked about him like a man who made a movie she liked and thought other people should see. Come on, let's not overstate the case!
Subject: Re: A Question for our Non-American Friends
Written By: RockandRollFan on 10/04/04 at 9:38 pm
I assume you mean Ronstadt. Now seriously, she talked about him like a man who made a movie she liked and thought other people should see. Come on, let's not overstate the case!
I think she should listen to another liberal, John Fogerty, and keep her politics OUT of her concerts and SING...after all, not everyone wants to hear about her rah-rah for Kerry speeches ::)
Subject: Re: A Question for our Non-American Friends
Written By: MaxwellSmart on 10/04/04 at 10:15 pm
I think she should listen to another liberal, John Fogerty, and keep her politics OUT of her concerts and SING...after all, not everyone wants to hear about her rah-rah for Kerry speeches ::)
What about Ted Nugent?
Subject: Re: A Question for our Non-American Friends
Written By: RockandRollFan on 10/04/04 at 10:45 pm
What about Ted Nugent?
He can't SING...he only HUNTS!
Subject: Re: A Question for our Non-American Friends
Written By: GWBush2004 on 10/05/04 at 6:17 am
Hey, GW, sorry if I got under your skin with that "more talent than Limbaugh in his little finger" remark.
:D
Did you happen to see Ann Coulter on H&C tonight? Boy, that lady's gone stark-raving crazy!
No no you didn't get under my skin. It was more the person above you, the alcoholic-girl (I know thats wrong.) I didn't see Coulter, I did hear her on Hannity's radio show. She rocks, and even says that her gender is stupid for voting more towards democrats. That is a tad extreme. Either way she has now become Al Gore of our party.
Subject: Re: A Question for our Non-American Friends
Written By: karen on 10/05/04 at 8:14 am
Guys, can we get back on topic? This was supposed to be a discussion about how non-Americans perceive the political discussions. Take your political discussions elsewhere.
I, for one, will be glad when the election is over. Then perhaps we can get back to normal news coverage. Personally, I do not want a blow by blow account of the conventions and votes in each State etc. - just tell me the result when it's over. It's not like I can do anything about it.
I also find it laughable how much of the 'discussion' on other threads here is really just mudslinging and name calling. What happened to debate about the best way forward for your country? Whether it be tax cuts or health care for all or whatever, these should be the things that concern you, not whether someone was a draft dodger or not.
Subject: Re: A Question for our Non-American Friends
Written By: Alchoholica on 10/05/04 at 2:44 pm
Righty Ho, being a perfect representative of middle england (we all drink too much) i can safely say that Dubyah is not the most beloved man around the globe. You see i have an awfull confession to make, let me take you back just a few years ago...
It was.. sometime a few years ago... and i saw Al Gore speaking against Dubyah, jesus christ i thought, this is supposed to be a debate not a competition to see how far Gore could stick his tounge up Little Georgie's ass. Bring on the Republicans i thought, at least Dubyah seems to have a pretty experienced group of guys with him. (Hell Halliburton roved all over the world, includeing some oil rich countries, suprise suprise??? ::) Anyway, so the 'election' came and went and i thought, well he must really be commited, stealing an election in such blatent style so i gave him the benfit of the doubt. Then one of the darkest days in our proud nations history took place (yes it's my freakin country, I am a yank who happens to have lived in Blighty all my life) After 9/11 Dubyah had the sympathy of the world, everyone loved America. So what did he do, he went and attacked a piece of sheesh country in the middle of nowhere and captured like, i dunno 3 guys, 4 maybe.. ask GWfan the actual figures... anyway, ever since then dubyah has gone down in my esteem. So we come to Politcal discussions...
I assume you are referring to in general rather than in the last month or so.. if that is the case then i find the utterly biast right wing slant on things slightly dissapointing, i mean were is the supposed Liberal media, i'd love to see what they have to say. Personally i think Politcal discussion in the US is... how to say, very showmanlike, but often there isn't as much substance. Just to clarify this for anybody, watch the Kerry Bush debate, and then listen, watch whatever you want.. to Michael Howard (the conservative party leader in the UK) and what he said just earlier today in his speech at the Conservative party conference, i think the differences are easy to spot.
I'm sure i have totally missed the point here, but it allowed me to share some grievances (and to GW dude, i like Bill O’Reilly, maybe not as much as you, but i generally like the guy. He is actually a very centralised conservative, and i enjoy listen to his opinions...
Now if only he would get on to a show on one of these Liberal stations, hmmmm, guess Gruppen Fuher Murdoch controlling everything makes that hard...
Subject: Re: A Question for our Non-American Friends
Written By: BrianMannixGirl on 10/06/04 at 6:10 am
Guys, can we get back on topic? This was supposed to be a discussion about how non-Americans perceive the political discussions. Take your political discussions elsewhere.
I, for one, will be glad when the election is over. Then perhaps we can get back to normal news coverage. Personally, I do not want a blow by blow account of the conventions and votes in each State etc. - just tell me the result when it's over. It's not like I can do anything about it.
I also find it laughable how much of the 'discussion' on other threads here is really just mudslinging and name calling. What happened to debate about the best way forward for your country? Whether it be tax cuts or health care for all or whatever, these should be the things that concern you, not whether someone was a draft dodger or not.
Yep that pretty much covers all of what I was planning to say !
Our election campaign here lasts exactly 6 weeks. Then its over and done with and the country continues on its merry way.
It seriously feels like the US campaign has been going longer than 6 months - and yep the rest of the world isnt remotely interested in the conventions (cos I can tell ya now if vision of those were the only vision we ever saw of americans we would be seriously worried about the entire countrys mental health !).
Subject: Re: A Question for our Non-American Friends
Written By: BrianMannixGirl on 10/06/04 at 6:27 am
Here ya go Karen - so pics of our not so elegant mouthy git of an opposition leader.
And re Paul Keating who put his arm around Her Maj - Latham would likely punch her on the shoulder and knock her to the ground - apparently thats what he does to most pensioners he meets !
Subject: Re: A Question for our Non-American Friends
Written By: Paul on 10/06/04 at 7:02 am
Cripes! He looks a barrel of laughs, don't he?!!
I'll add him to my list of 'things I wouldn't like to bump into on a dark night'...
Subject: Re: A Question for our Non-American Friends
Written By: karen on 10/06/04 at 7:29 am
He, He. Thanks BMG.
I think it was Paul Keating who had the ripe language as well. I read a book (Bill Bryson) where he includes quotes that Keating has made. It includes calling people "mangy maggots, pissants,a total nong" amongst other things. You would be thrown out of the debating chamber in Westminster for much less than this!
Subject: Re: A Question for our Non-American Friends
Written By: CatwomanofV on 10/06/04 at 12:23 pm
I do want to thank everyone who has answered my question. It really gives me a sense of how the world views our polical system. And you are right Karen, the "election season" is non-stop. From the time someone gets into office, they start thinking about re-election. After Nov. 2nd, everyone will start focusing on 2008 (or 2004 for Congress/Senate and Governors). And like a few of you said, things here do seem to be either black or white-no middle ground. Of course that is what makes our political scene very sad. It basically becomes a popularity contest rather than who is the best people for the job.
Again, thank you all and please feel free to continue to comment. I am very interested in what you have to say.
Cat
Subject: Re: A Question for our Non-American Friends
Written By: Bobby on 10/06/04 at 5:44 pm
Guys, can we get back on topic? This was supposed to be a discussion about how non-Americans perceive the political discussions. Take your political discussions elsewhere.
I, for one, will be glad when the election is over. Then perhaps we can get back to normal news coverage. Personally, I do not want a blow by blow account of the conventions and votes in each State etc. - just tell me the result when it's over. It's not like I can do anything about it.
I also find it laughable how much of the 'discussion' on other threads here is really just mudslinging and name calling. What happened to debate about the best way forward for your country? Whether it be tax cuts or health care for all or whatever, these should be the things that concern you, not whether someone was a draft dodger or not.
Exactly. What can I say about American politics (esp. on the messageboards) when someone has to deride a politician simply because he headed a football? My ignorance is for all to see but I thought politics was a bit more than that . . . ::)
Subject: Re: A Question for our Non-American Friends
Written By: BrianMannixGirl on 10/07/04 at 1:18 am
He, He. Thanks BMG.
I think it was Paul Keating who had the ripe language as well. I read a book (Bill Bryson) where he includes quotes that Keating has made. It includes calling people "mangy maggots, pissants,a total nong" amongst other things. You would be thrown out of the debating chamber in Westminster for much less than this!
Well there is probably only one quote that can be printed here that Latham has said - in Parliment he called someone (I forget who - it may have even been to the actual prime minister) an Arse Licker.
Delightful.
Our parliment can get quite vile at the best of times - and considering its televised in the early arvo between childrens cartoons - it must be quite an education for the 5 year olds.
I seriously hope by Sunday morning he has lost and pulled a Kim beazley - cried and said "I dont wanna play anymore" - and resigned.
Subject: Re: A Question for our Non-American Friends
Written By: karen on 10/07/04 at 5:50 am
On the late night news here they reckoned that Latham is in with a pretty good chance. I guess we'll know soon enough.
Bill Bryson reckoned we should watch Aus parlimentary debates because they're so entertaining!
What always get me when they show "Live from Westminster" is how few people are actually there listening to the debates. I wish I knew where my MP was supposed to sit. I'd look for him every time and then write and ask where he was, especially on some of the recent hunting debates because that affects people locally.
Anyway, now I've drifted off topic, sorry!