I am very disturbed by some of things that I have been hearing lately. The woman getting fired because she has a political bumper sticker on her car; there was an article in the today's paper about student's at Colorado colleges feel that they are being harrassed because of their political views; that one picture where some guy was pulling the hair of a potester, etc.

To me, it seems like this country is more polerized than ever before-even more so than during the Vietnam war. We seem to be engaged in a battle of Democrats vs Republicans-Left vs Right. It has really gone beyond political debates. There was an incident in my area where some people were having a peaceful protest condeming the war and someone had to assult one of the protesters. We seem to be fighting among ourselves instead of our "so-called" enemy-terrorists. My question is WHY?




Cat

I am very disturbed by some of things that I have been hearing lately. The woman getting fired because she has a political bumper sticker on her car; there was an article in the today's paper about student's at Colorado colleges feel that they are being harrassed because of their political views; that one picture where some guy was pulling the hair of a potester, etc.

To me, it seems like this country is more polerized than ever before-even more so than during the Vietnam war. We seem to be engaged in a battle of Democrats vs Republicans-Left vs Right. It has really gone beyond political debates. There was an incident in my area where some people were having a peaceful protest condeming the war and someone had to assult one of the protesters. We seem to be fighting among ourselves instead of our "so-called" enemy-terrorists. My question is WHY?




Cat


It disturbs me as well, Cat. I don't know why, but I'm getting mighty sick of the smearing, the stupid political ads from all sides, and the lack of respect for peaceful protesting (be it whatever they're protesting at the time). Most of all, I'm tired of people telling other people, "Oh, you're wrong if you think that....you're wrong if you vote for him....you don't know what you're talking about....etc."

This election is causing a lot of grief. I sure hope it's worth it.

I am very disturbed by some of things that I have been hearing lately.(...) My question is WHY?




Cat


I think it has to do with the increasingly ideological tone of politics.  In 1969 Gary Wills (no liberal) published a book called Nixon Agonistes which dealt with polarization back then.  One theme that he kept pounding was "The center can't hold".  Repub politicians have been pandering to christian fundamentalists (no cap - they ain't Charistian), and so moving to the right.  Centrists have been attacked as "liberals" and liberals are being villified.  Seems to me that there is very little difference between those who want to impose the Taliban version of Islam and those who want to impose a literalist interpretation of the Bible.  They are cut from the same mold.  We are witnessing a decline in secularism and humanism because, I think, materialism and consumerism are leaving lots of people behind, they are angry that they can't afford that SUV, they are frustrated by the greater freedom (and seeming directionless nature of humanism, and they are seeking answers, and worse, saviors.  They are increasingly suseptible to fascist solutions, easy answers.  The media, with its sound bites, encourages this.

I think it has to do with the increasingly ideological tone of politics.  In 1969 Gary Wills (no liberal) published a book called Nixon Agonistes which dealt with polarization back then.  One theme that he kept pounding was "The center can't hold".  Repub politicians have been pandering to christian fundamentalists (no cap - they ain't Charistian), and so moving to the right.  Centrists have been attacked as "liberals" and liberals are being villified.  Seems to me that there is very little difference between those who want to impose the Taliban version of Islam and those who want to impose a literalist interpretation of the Bible.  They are cut from the same mold.  We are witnessing a decline in secularism and humanism because, I think, materialism and consumerism are leaving lots of people behind, they are angry that they can't afford that SUV, they are frustrated by the greater freedom (and seeming directionless nature of humanism, and they are seeking answers, and worse, saviors.  They are increasingly suseptible to fascist solutions, easy answers.  The media, with its sound bites, encourages this.



Very scary.



Cat

I think Rush Limbaugh and Newt Gingrich are the two most influential figures in the decline of civility over the past 10 years.  Limbaugh for media, and Gingrich for politics.

Both men were national figures prior to 1994, but it was not until Clinton took the White House, and Gingrich became Speaker of the House of Representatives that the viciously partisan war shifted into high gear. 

Prior to the '90s, you had your culutre wars, but they were less overtly partisan.  In fact, one of the most obnoxious campaigns of the '80s, the Parents Music Resource Center (PMRC) was founded by Tipper Gore and other wives of Washington Democrats.

I think Rush Limbaugh and Newt Gingrich are the two most influential figures in the decline of civility over the past 10 years.  Limbaugh for media, and Gingrich for politics.

Both men were national figures prior to 1994, but it was not until Clinton took the White House, and Gingrich became Speaker of the House of Representatives that the viciously partisan war shifted into high gear. 

Prior to the '90s, you had your culutre wars, but they were less overtly partisan.  In fact, one of the most obnoxious campaigns of the '80s, the Parents Music Resource Center (PMRC) was founded by Tipper Gore and other wives of Washington Democrats.


I really really REALLy hate Limbaugh. He's such a hypocritical b*stard. I wish he'd crawl back into his prescription drug riddled hole and stay there until he was a poor pathetic homeless drug addict who has to sell his body for cheap booze and Oxytocin (or whatever it's called).

Sorry. Even seeing his name irks the hell out of me. :P

Both men were national figures prior to 1994, but it was not until Clinton took the White House, and Gingrich became Speaker of the House of Representatives that the viciously partisan war shifted into high gear. 


Oh, and the Tip O'Neal years were an oasis of civility?

Oh, and the Tip O'Neal years were an oasis of civility?

Compared to what Gingrich ushered in, yes.  You remember the great rapport O'Neill had with Reagan.  Politics ended, so to speak, with gavel at the end of the day.  O'Neill never advised his colleagues to describe the Republicans as "abnormal," "perverts," "psychopaths," and so forth.

Limbaugh contributed to a media climate that brought the Jerry Springer style into the political realm.  Fox News followed suit.
The minor voice of opposition Air America is raising does similarly in response.  I happen to agree with Al Franken, though, ideally I'd rather see debate more mature and civil. 
The "conservative" media went all ridicule and raspberries while the so-called liberals at NPR maintained the old stodgy broadcast journalism standards.
Now that Franken is fighting back, Bill O'Reilly cannot find adjectives strong enough to express his hatred.  They can dish it out but they can't take it.

In part, I think the problem is that the Repubs have sold the soul of their party to christian fundamentalists (again, small "c" intentional) because the moderate wing wasn't very successful.  So we see Repubs crashing toward the right, vilifying "liberals" to appease their "base".  To me it shows a lack of leadership and an abundance of political opportunism.  It is scary.  It potends of fascism.

In part, I think the problem is that the Repubs have sold the soul of their party to christian fundamentalists (again, small "c" intentional) because the moderate wing wasn't very successful.  So we see Repubs crashing toward the right, vilifying "liberals" to appease their "base".  To me it shows a lack of leadership and an abundance of political opportunism.  It is scary.  It potends of fascism.

It is Fascism.  The problem we STILL live in a democratic republic.  Behest of the Christian fundamentalists and the corporate bosses, the GOP will ease us out of democracy over the next decade.
It seems like a majority of voters don't want democracy anyway.  It's too complicated.

IMO, it's partly due to the politicians themselves slinging the mud.  It seems that every election gets dirtier and dirtier...the regular Joe's see this and think "what's good for the goose is good for the gander" and follow suit.


I could be wrong, though.


To an extent I think you are wrong because mud slinging has been a part of politics for ages.  The rumor that Jefferson and Sally Hemming had kids together (which turns out to be true) was started by one of Jefferson's opponents, for example, and there have been others.

To an extent I think you are wrong because mud slinging has been a part of politics for ages.  The rumor that Jefferson and Sally Hemming had kids together (which turns out to be true) was started by one of Jefferson's opponents, for example, and there have been others.


Previous to the Sally Hemings/Jefferson story Jefferson has passed gossip on to the same journalist,
James Callendar, about John Adams and Alexander Hamilton in an effort to discredit them.  What
goes around......
;)

Previous to the Sally Hemings/Jefferson story Jefferson has passed gossip on to the same journalist,
James Callendar, about John Adams and Alexander Hamilton in an effort to discredit them.  What
goes around......
;)


Mud pies and politics, they go together.  On the other hand, Cheerleader has a point.  Certainly this sort of personal invictive and character assassination has taken on an increasing role in our politics, mostly I guess because of the sensationalist media that just loves a scandal.