Being fair at this point to call them as they happen...there is NOTHING you can find that makes Kerry memorable, as far as influential, in his career!

Was there a memorable speech? Anything he did while Clinton was in office? Anything he did in all his serving in office! So far nothing. THIS IS SOMEBODY PEOPLE WANT TO HAVE FOR PRESIDENT??!

You could nominate a celebrity against Bush and it looks like they will win.
No matter what has happened with Bushs' term, if he said something he DID IT. He had something to say and Kerry still blows...in the wind! 

Basically it is a 'Just not Bush' election.

 

So? Why should I vote for Bush?

Actually...this wasn't preferring EITHER, so I may not have ALL the reasons...
If it's between the two, at least there are reasons available(again depending on what/who) would you rather have leading the free world? A guy who says what he will do and does it, a guy who toppled the Iraqi dictator and freed many feared and oppressed people. Someone who has a plan to follow and not 'we have to change things here'campaign of nothing of substance...OKAY, SO HOW MR. K? uh, uh...together we will be united!

Anyone else wanna run this place?I'll be open to hear a new candidate.....

Too much to go on and repeat here...this again was just a comment on the latest view of the race.

good luck all....

Being fair at this point to call them as they happen...there is NOTHING you can find that makes Kerry memorable, as far as influential, in his career!

Was there a memorable speech? Anything he did while Clinton was in office? Anything he did in all his serving in office! So far nothing. THIS IS SOMEBODY PEOPLE WANT TO HAVE FOR PRESIDENT??!

You could nominate a celebrity against Bush and it looks like they will win.
No matter what has happened with Bushs' term, if he said something he DID IT. He had something to say and Kerry still blows...in the wind! 

Basically it is a 'Just not Bush' election.

 


http://www.comedycentral.com/mp/play.php?reposid=/multimedia/indy04/dnc_kerrybio.html

;D

Actually...this wasn't preferring EITHER, so I may not have ALL the reasons...
If it's between the two, at least there are reasons available(again depending on what/who) would you rather have leading the free world? A guy who says what he will do and does it, a guy who toppled the Iraqi dictator and freed many feared and oppressed people. Someone who has a plan to follow and not 'we have to change things here'campaign of nothing of substance...OKAY, SO HOW MR. K? uh, uh...together we will be united!


if Bush has a plan for Iraq or Afghanastan, I'm sure we'd all love to hear it... all we keep hearing about is how great it is they have a democracy.  Have you seen a plan?

Seems to me that they're both "Talkers"....only Bush has DONE something.

Plan for Iraq: Get out when the new government is under control

Afghanistan: Get Bin Laden

Kerry:'Let's help the French government'----I don't think so!


Anyone wanna bet on an October surprise by Bush?
Maybe just a feeling????

Plan for Iraq: Get out when the new government is under control

Afghanistan: Get Bin Laden

Kerry:'Let's help the French government'----I don't think so!


Anyone wanna bet on an October surprise by Bush?
Maybe just a feeling????

As much as Nixon was a "Crook" he did pretty well with foreign affairs...and wasn't it something when...in 1972....with all the people against him he totally crushed the dems with a landslide victory.... :o

Actually...this wasn't preferring EITHER, so I may not have ALL the reasons...
If it's between the two, at least there are reasons available(again depending on what/who) would you rather have leading the free world? A guy who says what he will do and does it, a guy who toppled the Iraqi dictator and freed many feared and oppressed people. Someone who has a plan to follow and not 'we have to change things here'campaign of nothing of substance...OKAY, SO HOW MR. K? uh, uh...together we will be united!

Anyone else wanna run this place?I'll be open to hear a new candidate.....

Too much to go on and repeat here...this again was just a comment on the latest view of the race.

good luck all....

Oh my!  What madness!

RnRFan wrote:
As much as Nixon was a "Crook" he did pretty well with foreign affairs...and wasn't it something when...in 1972....with all the people against him he totally crushed the dems with a landslide victory....
Tricky Dcik did have a "silent majority" behind him.  Not so sure Bush has the same advantage here.

Plan for Iraq: Get out when the new government is under control

Afghanistan: Get Bin Laden

Kerry:'Let's help the French government'----I don't think so!


Anyone wanna bet on an October surprise by Bush?
Maybe just a feeling????



Oh my!  What madness!

RnRFan wrote:

Tricky dip did have a "silent majority" behind him. Not so sure Bush has the same advantage here.
Okay...so how about savers LAST comment...makes a LOT of sense to me....no madness

Okay...so how about savers LAST comment...makes a LOT of sense to me....no madness

You mean, "anyone else wanna run this place?"
Yeah, a lot of people do.  Unfortunately, the best the Dems could come up with was John Kerry, but at least it wasn't that hemorrhoid-personafied Joe Lieberman, and a Kerry Administration will do one thing for sure--get rid of the gang of crooks, cheats, and chickenhawks in the executive branch currently!

The only thing "mad" was Saver's discombobulated rant in defense of Mr. Bush.

Tricky Dcik did have a "silent majority" behind him.  Not so sure Bush has the same advantage here.


Not sure if we are the majority or the minority, but I do know the republicans are pretty silent, compared to the old hatin' party that is the democrats.

As much as Nixon was a "Crook" he did pretty well with foreign affairs...and wasn't it something when...in 1972....with all the people against him he totally crushed the dems with a landslide victory.... :o


They found out too late that they should have listened to the people from Massachusetts.  Don't
make the same mistake they did.

Not sure if we are the majority or the minority, but I do know the republicans are pretty silent, compared to the old hatin' party that is the democrats.

Rubbish.  That's a Hannity fantasy.  As I said in the Swift Boat thread, this whole SBVT IS a Republican party operation. 
SBVT should stand for Save Bush from Voter Turnout!
::)

if Bush has a plan for Iraq or Afghanastan, I'm sure we'd all love to hear it... all we keep hearing about is how great it is they have a democracy.  Have you seen a plan?


Have you seen a democracy???

Seems to me that they're both "Talkers"....only Bush has DONE something.


He has done lots of things - WRONG!!!

He has reduced air pollution standards.

He has attacked overtime pay for an estimated 1.6 million workers who depend on it.

He has waisted the lives of almost 1000 service people on an unjustifiable war with no plan to extricate ourselves.

He has failed to capture Osama bin Laden.

He has supported crony capitalism which is enriching his biggest supporters.

He has created unfunded mandates for states and towns in his education "reform".

He has squandered the budget surplus left to him by the evil Bill Clinton, and turned it into the biggest deficit in history.

He has INCREASED the tax burden on working and middle class people and ruduced it on the most priviledged.

He has attacked our civil liberties under the so-called "Patriot" Act.

He has presided over the biggest job loss in our history since Herbert Hoover.

Lordy, lordy, this is the guy for me!

Anyone wanna bet on an October surprise by Bush?
Maybe just a feeling????



Now on this one, I suspect its in the bag.  Lower oil prices.  All of a sudden it will be $30 a barrel again, or lower.  With his connections to the Saudi's its a done deal.
He is also pressing PAKISTAN (not our forces) to catch Bin Laden before the election.

Not sure if we are the majority or the minority, but I do know the republicans are pretty silent, compared to the old hatin' party that is the democrats.


Republican?  Silent?  Get real!!!  Lets see, off the top of my head there's Falwell, Robertson, is Jim Bakker still around?  And Hennity, and Rush, and the idiot "Hardball" guy (who if he would shut up, I could take out with half my brain tied behind my back), and O'Rielly, and Ann Coulter, and these Swift Boat liars, and on this board....

Being fair at this point to call them as they happen...there is NOTHING you can find that makes Kerry memorable, as far as influential, in his career!





I admit that I haven't studied Kerry's record in congress, and he was not my first choice.  On the other hand, Kerry has clearly been overshadowed by Mass"s senior Senator, which does not negate the fact that he is HIGHLY intelligent (as opposed to Lil' Georgie, who is mearly cunning.  He has proven leadership abilities, as HIS crews in Nam have attested. He has at least spoken about real ways to alter our broken health care system (not having a chance to implement them).  He has promised to redress the horrible imballance in out tax system.  He has promised to strenthen environmental protection.  One could go on, but the point is that Lil' Georgie COULD have done these things, but did the opposit (see my post above).  The devil I know can't be much worse.  Kerry may be another devil who will cave on these issues but he may NOT.  I think he could be a great president, one of our best, and at least several have been elected who have made little name for themselves as effective politicians and turned out to be fairly good (although not beyond critisism).  Kerry at least says the right things.  Lets elect him and then hold his feet to the fire.

Didn't Bush bring the unemployment rate down to the lowest level in YEARS since Clinton??

Many people are just expecting the US to walk into Afghanistan and pointing to a cave to say 'there's BIN L'..AND to start "democracy" in a 3rd world country OVERNIGHT! It doesn't work that way.

Look at all the groups forming to kidnap anyone they can for their cause..whay aren't we helping them catch anyone who kidnapped anyone and beheaded them(or are we not hearing about it)?

When you have more people against Kerry/who were with him in his war years, don't you hear the stories???

What about the doctor who treated him to get him that purple heart??
Did it happen that way??

What IS Kerrys' plan???

Do you think the Saudis want him elected and are THEY getting the money to pay him off??
If Bush is inwith the Saudis, why doesn't Kerry comment on how he will cut off the Saudi crooks from any doings with us and how we will get our oil elsewhere?
Hmm, he loves that NAFTA stuff bring in those illegal immigrants while he's at it making friend with those corrupt ones down there and in Cuba!

Doubt the surprise would be lower oil prices...don't think we'll see $1.80 gas again.


 

(1) Didn't Bush bring the unemployment rate down to the lowest level in YEARS since Clinton??

(2) Many people are just expecting the US to walk into Afghanistan and pointing to a cave to say 'there's BIN L'..AND to start "democracy" in a 3rd world country OVERNIGHT! It doesn't work that way.

(3) Look at all the groups forming to kidnap anyone they can for their cause..whay aren't we helping them catch anyone who kidnapped anyone and beheaded them(or are we not hearing about it)?

(4) When you have more people against Kerry/who were with him in his war years, don't you hear the stories???

(5) What about the doctor who treated him to get him that purple heart??
Did it happen that way??

(6) What IS Kerrys' plan???

(7) Do you think the Saudis want him elected and are THEY getting the money to pay him off??
If Bush is inwith the Saudis, why doesn't Kerry comment on how he will cut off the Saudi crooks from any doings with us and how we will get our oil elsewhere?

(8) Hmm, he loves that NAFTA stuff bring in those illegal immigrants while he's at it making friend with those corrupt ones down there and in Cuba!

(9) Doubt the surprise would be lower oil prices...don't think we'll see $1.80 gas again.
 


It is hard to respond to the converted, but, weary as I am, I'll try.

1.  The "unemployment rate" is an artificial figure that has little to due with real unemployment.  It measures the number of people getting unemployment benefits and the number of others seeking jobs through public employment agencies, not the number of people without work who want it.  The fact of the matter is that Lil' Georgie has lost 1.6 million net jobs since assuming office.  For last month the prediction was for about 120,000 new jobs.  What did we get?  36,000, and how many of those were "frys with that sir" jobs?  Economically. Bush has been a disaster.

2.  No, it doesn't work that way, but right after 9/11 Lil' Gieorgie made Osama public enemy # 1, then diverted attention to Saddam, like Roosevelt, on Dec 8 1941, saying "holy crow, Japan just attacked Pearl Harbor, lets declare war on Mexico".  Quite an absurdity don't you think?  Oh well, I guesss not.

3.  Good question.  What it points up is that our stupid atcions in Iraq have not made us safer, but have generated greater animosity against us, and our only response is to try to kill more people.  I have no idea what our "intelligence community" (an oxymorone) is doing, but clearly, it is not very effective.  And this is the ineffective Commander in Chief that you support.  For the life of me, I can'tfigure out why.

4.  I guess that if you can't figure out that none of the folks who are speaking out now were not under Kerry's command, and that they are angry because he became active in the Vets against the war effort after he was discharged, there is no way that I can explain it to you. 

5.  I wasn't there, so I have no idea.  Ask the doctor.

6.  Kerry has spoken of several plans.  Which one are you refering to?

7.  Bush and his family have a long and deep relationship with the Saudi royal family, including the Bin Ladens (not royals, but closely connected).  I never suggested that the Saudi royals were getting paid off.  Not even Bush could do that, it would take the Midas touch.  They are allies and have been for some time.  He doesn't have to pay them to get their support - not in cash.  To assume that we are talking $$$ for service is the ultimate of nievete.

8.  I don't get this.  Seems totally off the wall.  What does Cuba have to do with anything?  When has Kerry supported Cuba?\

9.  We'll see.  By Nov. it gets pretty cold up here in Vermont, and many people can't afford to lock in stable heating oil prices (unless part of Bush's "plan" is that global warming will solve that problem).


What really disturbes me is that die hards refuse to examine Lil' Georgie's record with any degree of dispassion.  Show me what he did that was positive.  Check my list of negatives and refute it.  I'm all ears.  Just don't give me this drivel.  Defend your man - fine - but show some finess.  Why should I vote for him?

Didn't Bush bring the unemployment rate down to the lowest level in YEARS since Clinton??
Don't judge the health of the economy for the people by either of these two factors:
1. The stock market.
2. The unemployment rate.
Investor confidence in corporate profits often indicates companies increasing profits by exploiting workers, outsourcing jobs, and further deteriorating the infrastructure of America.  The unemployment rate doesn't count the the underemployed, the part-timers, and those left out of the system altogether.
The United States is rotting from the inside.  New ghost towns are emerging all over the country's interior.

Many people are just expecting the US to walk into Afghanistan and pointing to a cave to say 'there's BIN L'..AND to start "democracy" in a 3rd world country OVERNIGHT! It doesn't work that way.
I'm not upset about their failure to find Bin Laden, per se, but their decision to attack Iraq.  Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.  The connections the Right tries to make between Iraq and Al Qaeda are dubious and specious. The Bush Administration has alienated our allies from us in a pointless and destructive imperial venture.  We are now neck deep in the Iraqi quagmire and Bush has no strategy for getting out.  I assume Iraq is better off without Saddam, but how much better?  Such a determination made in 2010 might show a country not measuarably better off, and possibly quite a bit worse for, the riddance of Saddam.  I hate to sound so pessimistic, but prospects don't look very promising for "Democracy" and stability in the long run.  The torture chambers and rape rooms of the Saddam regime might very well return as the enforcement tools of the next strongman to fill a power vacuum over there.

What IS Kerrys' plan???
Your question is rhetorical and your foregone conclusion is Kerry has no plan.  I will post a link to Kerry's national security plans from johnkerry.com, but you will only deny its validity to support said foregone conclusion.
http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/national_security/

Do you think the Saudis want him elected and are THEY getting the money to pay him off??
If Bush is inwith the Saudis, why doesn't Kerry comment on how he will cut off the Saudi crooks from any doings with us and how we will get our oil elsewhere?
Hmm, he loves that NAFTA stuff bring in those illegal immigrants while he's at it making friend with those corrupt ones down there and in Cuba!

Doubt the surprise would be lower oil prices...don't think we'll see $1.80 gas again.
I don't see why the Saudis will be happier with the Bush family out of the White House.  The hard truth is we are going to have to wean ourselves off of fossil fuels sooner or later.  You see what happens to candidates who talk seriously about alternative fuels, renewable resources, and--gasp--improved mass transit, they get written off as "kooks."  That's what would happen to Kerry.  Kerry is beholden to corporate America.  He cannot say things that too greatly threaten their greedy interests.  It sucks.   NAFTA sucks too.  Such GATT treaties mean disaster for workers the world over.  Kerry is far too "Republican" in these issues as far as I'm concerned.


 

Don't judge the health of the economy for the people by either of these two factors:
1. The stock market.
2. The unemployment rate.
Investor confidence in corporate profits often indicates companies increasing profits by exploiting workers, outsourcing jobs, and further deteriorating the infrastructure of America.  The unemployment rate doesn't count the the underemployed, the part-timers, and those left out of the system altogether.
The United States is rotting from the inside.  New ghost towns are emerging all over the country's interior.


I'm not upset about their failure to find Bin Laden, per se, but their decision to attack Iraq.  Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.  The connections the Right tries to make between Iraq and Al Qaeda are dubious and specious. The Bush Administration has alienated our allies from us in a pointless and destructive imperial venture.  We are now neck deep in the Iraqi quagmire and Bush has no strategy for getting out.  I assume Iraq is better off without Saddam, but how much better?  Such a determination made in 2010 might show a country not measuarably better off, and possibly quite a bit worse for, the riddance of Saddam.  I hate to sound so pessimistic, but prospects don't look very promising for "Democracy" and stability in the long run.  The torture chambers and rape rooms of the Saddam regime might very well return as the enforcement tools of the next strongman to fill a power vacuum over there.


Your question is rhetorical and your foregone conclusion is Kerry has no plan.  I will post a link to Kerry's national security plans from johnkerry.com, but you will only deny its validity to support said foregone conclusion.
http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/national_security/


I don't see why the Saudis will be happier with the Bush family out of the White House.  The hard truth is we are going to have to wean ourselves off of fossil fuels sooner or later.  You see what happens to candidates who talk seriously about alternative fuels, renewable resources, and--gasp--improved mass transit, they get written off as "kooks."  That's what would happen to Kerry.  Kerry is beholden to corporate America.  He cannot say things that too greatly threaten their greedy interests.  It sucks.   NAFTA sucks too.  Such GATT treaties mean disaster for workers the world over.  Kerry is far too "Republican" in these issues as far as I'm concerned.


 



Max, I couldn't agree more, but politics is the art of the possible.  3 steps forward, 2 back is the best we can hope for when so many wotking stiff routinely vote against their own interests and for their oppessors.  "When will they ever learn, oh when will  they ever learn".

I'd like to add to Carlos' "what Bush has done"  list that St. George also "supported our troops" by rewarding our veterans with cuts and by going after our current active duty troops' combat pay and family benefits.  Too, among others, he aimed his attack on overtime pay at our nation's "first response heroes."    

Thank you, sir, may we have another?  

I'd like to add to Carlos' "what Bush has done"  list that St. George also "supported our troops" by rewarding our veterans with cuts and by going after our current active duty troops' combat pay and family benefits.  Too, among others, he aimed his attack on overtime pay at our nation's "first response heroes."    

Thank you, sir, may we have another?  

Our brave troops who sacrifice so much for us wanted adequate equipment and enough supplies to carry them through.  What did they get?  Bibles.  Bibles with an inserted letter requesting they pray...pray for President Geroge W. Bush.  Not only that, the request instructed the soldiers to send letters to the President, on their own dime, informing the President they were indeed praying for HIM!
What the fffffuuuuuuu.......

Not having to look far, entered: why vote for Bush, and the site came up with various Americans reasons that may effect YOU and others who ask.....


 


Bush...
1. is negative on abortion 2. believes in individuals over government 3. has the retirement solution for the country 4. Will help IT Corps the most by not over taxing them like Democrats would do if they could get away from it.



I thought everybody who could read knew all this stuff! Was I a fool.

Not having to look far, entered: why vote for Bush, and the site came up with various Americans reasons that may effect YOU and others who ask.....


 


Bush...
1. is negative on abortion
He wants crusty old men to make reproductive decisions for women.  Sounds pretty negative to me, too.
::)

2. believes in individuals over government
That is, believes in a few super rich individuals using government for their own greedy ends!
>:(

3. has the retirement solution for the country
Right, if we follow Dubya's solutions we can "retire" America's economy, ecological environments, physical infrastructure, and democratic government.  All these things will get a gold watch and a swift kick in the @ss out the door!
:D

4. Will help IT Corps the most by not over taxing them like Democrats would do if they could get away from it.
Uhh...huh?  Come again?
???


I thought everybody who could read knew all this stuff! Was I a fool.
Were you a fool?

He has done lots of things - WRONG!!!

He has reduced air pollution standards.

He has attacked overtime pay for an estimated 1.6 million workers who depend on it.

He has waisted the lives of almost 1000 service people on an unjustifiable war with no plan to extricate ourselves.

He has failed to capture Osama bin Laden.

He has supported crony capitalism which is enriching his biggest supporters.

He has created unfunded mandates for states and towns in his education "reform".

He has squandered the budget surplus left to him by the evil Bill Clinton, and turned it into the biggest deficit in history.

He has INCREASED the tax burden on working and middle class people and ruduced it on the most priviledged.

He has attacked our civil liberties under the so-called "Patriot" Act.

He has presided over the biggest job loss in our history since Herbert Hoover.

Lordy, lordy, this is the guy for me!
I'll go with what Gene Simmons said....if you have cockroaches in the kitchen you don't need someone to "Talk" to them....you need an exterminator. I think many in the military who are serving to garantee our FREEDOM should be commended for what they are doing....as much as I hate war, it beats doing Nothing....

He wants crusty old men to make reproductive decisions for women.  Sounds pretty negative to me, too.
::)



No...I believe he wants people to stop acting irresponsibly and killing babies....give'em up for adoption! There are PLENTY of people who can't have children that would welcome the chance to ADOPT.

No...I believe he wants people to stop acting irresponsibly and killing babies....give'em up for adoption! There are PLENTY of people who can't have children that would welcome the chance to ADOPT.


Are you saying that you would be willing to carry the child yourself for nine months? There are women who have abortions who are not being irresponsible.

Are you saying that you would be willing to carry the child yourself for nine months? There are women who have abortions who are not being irresponsible.
I'm talking about the irresposible as well as the responsible ones...and YES...if it were possible I would SAVE a life rather than let it be killed!

No...I believe he wants people to stop acting irresponsibly and killing babies....give'em up for adoption! There are PLENTY of people who can't have children that would welcome the chance to ADOPT.

Do you honestly believe if one of Dubya's blonde bombshell daughters found herself in the family way after a night of partying with the Houston Astros, Dubya would insist she carry the fetus to term against her wishes?
I don't thnks soooo.....
::)
I'll go with what Gene Simmons said....if you have cockroaches in the kitchen you don't need someone to "Talk" to them....you need an exterminator. I think many in the military who are serving to garantee our FREEDOM should be commended for what they are doing....as much as I hate war, it beats doing Nothing....

Are you talking about this guy?
http://www.mtv.com/shared/media/news/images/k/Kiss/sq-gene-kiss-make-up-cover.jpg
Boy, Bartlett's Quotations got nothing on you!  Arf arf arf!
BTW, Gen Simmons was born in Jerusalem.   You know what his real name is?
Chaim Wietz.
:D

Do you honestly believe if one of Dubya's blonde bombshell daughters found herself in the family way after a night of partying with the Houston Astros, Dubya would insist she carry the fetus to term against her wishes?
I don't thnks soooo.....
::)


Are you talking about this guy?
http://www.mtv.com/shared/media/news/images/k/Kiss/sq-gene-kiss-make-up-cover.jpg
Boy, Bartlett's Quotations got nothing on you!  Arf arf arf!
BTW, Gen Simmons was born in Jerusalem.   You know what his real name is?
Chaim Wietz.
:D

Yet when he's going at it from a liberal point of view (Like back in '92)...THEN he's alright :D

As for Bush and his daughters...I don't know, it's never come up (Yet)...but if it did the liberals would make her WAIT until her 3rd tri-mester before the coat hanger would be inserted >:(

Yet when he's going at it from a liberal point of view (Like back in '92)...THEN he's alright :D

As for Bush and his daughters...I don't know, it's never come up (Yet)...but if it did the liberals would make her WAIT until her 3rd tri-mester before the coat hanger would be inserted >:(


I worked with someone who died like that.  She was very young and very naive and had
a boyfriend who walked on her when she told him she was pregnant. She hid the pregnancy
from everyone because she had been raised very strictly.  Her parents found her on the floor
bleeding to death.  She had been so ashamed of being pregnant she couldn't bring herself to
go to a doctor or friend or clinic.  That's is what they got out of her before she died, saying she
was sorry she disappointed them.  They buried the baby with her. This after abortion was legal.

I worked with someone who died like that.  She was very young and very naive and had
a boyfriend who walked on her when she told him she was pregnant. She hid the pregnancy
from everyone because she had been raised very strictly.  Her parents found her on the floor
bleeding to death.  She had been so ashamed of being pregnant she couldn't bring herself to
go to a doctor or friend or clinic.  That's is what they got out of her before she died, saying she
was sorry she disappointed them.  They buried the baby with her. This after abortion was legal.

No matter how many young women may die concealing pregnancy, from unattended births, from back alley abortions, all you'll get from the anti-choice people is more Victorian finger-wagging and homilies on personal responsibility.  It's not important to win them over rhetorically, you'll never do it anyway.  It's important to keep politicians out of office who will appoint anti-choice jurists. It's important to show them up at the schoolboards, the PTAs, and local concerns to counter their anti-choice, anti-contraception propaganda.  It's important to vote against anti-choice politicians where reproductive health funding is at stake.

There IS a place for the "personal responsibility" ethos regarding reproductive choices.  Abstinence is a good ethic for teens.  However, it's simply not realistic to expect all teens will abstain.  If you fail to provide contraception on demand without a guilt trip, you risk rising rates of pregnancy and STDs.  In our society, sex is generally not emotionally healthy for 16 year olds, but pregnancy, teenage parenthood, abortion, and STDs make things much worse. 

"Personal responsibility" only works in the absence of despair and the presence of hope.  A big reason teenage women from poverty and privation get pregnant is they want something to call their own.  Of course it's not logical, but hopelessness does not make for good decision-making.

The nuances and shades of gray in human behavior make it vital that we don't fall under the control of the Republican idealogues from the rich man's cupcakeland.

Hey, you forgot the "adoption is the answer" argument, too ;)

I wish there was a Ward and June Cleaver eagerly waiting to adopt every unwanted child...but there isn't.

I'd like to add to Carlos' "what Bush has done"  list that St. George also "supported our troops" by rewarding our veterans with cuts and by going after our current active duty troops' combat pay and family benefits.  Too, among others, he aimed his attack on overtime pay at our nation's "first response heroes."    

Thank you, sir, may we have another?  



Thanks, he has done so much wrong that one forgets some of the s...

...tuff ;)


LOL, but not EXACTLY what I had in mind  ;).

I guess for Maxwell wondering why vote for Bush..

he led us successfully through 2 wars

he says what he's going to do ..evenwhen the United Nations and others were against it and sit around giving Saddam 14 chances or ore to come clean

Allan Greenspan had positive praises for the economy thanks to George

he knows what he wants to do

If you have reasons NOT to vote, those are your reasons, people have pretty much made uptheir minds...this is just one opinion...if your causes are for other matters, then that's while you'll probably vote against..but these were to point out what his leadership has done compared to anothers who has shown ANY leadership qualities to sway others. 

he led us successfully through 2 wars

Successfully? Which wars are you talking about? Certainly not the war in Afganistan or Iraq. Neither one of those are successful. They are still being fought with no end in sight.


he says what he's going to do ..evenwhen the United Nations and others were against it and sit around giving Saddam 14 chances or ore to come clean

Who made Dubya the world police?


Allan Greenspan had positive praises for the economy thanks to George

Here is what Greenspan said today.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=568&e=4&u=/nm/20040827/bs_nm/economy_greenspan_dc

I hope you are not expecting Social Sercurity when you reach the age of 65. And what about the fact that 1.3 million people are now living in poverty that weren't last year.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20040827/us_nm/life_poverty_dc_8


There is also the new overtime rules where many will lose their overtime pay-that is if they haven't lost their job that went overseas.


he knows what he wants to do

What he wants is more for him and his buddies and less for everyone else. And he doesn't care how he gets it-lies, cheats, steals, it doesn't matter. The ends justifies the means.



If you have reasons NOT to vote, those are your reasons, people have pretty much made uptheir minds...this is just one opinion...if your causes are for other matters, then that's while you'll probably vote against..but these were to point out what his leadership has done compared to anothers who has shown ANY leadership qualities to sway others. 



His leadership qualities are questionable to say the least. He has made this world a more dangerous place. He claims that we are fighting the "war against terror" but his actions in the Middle East has made it a breeding ground for terrorists. You can read about it in any paper any day. And he has made our allies turn against us.


This country really can't afford another four years of this. There would be nothing left.




Cat

I guess for Maxwell wondering why vote for Bush..

he led us successfully through 2 wars
Don't count your chickens before they hatch goes the cliche.  "Success" is too early to determine, but all signs in Iraq indicate a total foreign policy disaster.  Once again, I recommend the September (current) Harper's, the article "Year Zero," by Naomi Klein.

he says what he's going to do ..evenwhen the United Nations and others were against it and sit around giving Saddam 14 chances or ore to come clean
He has also shown wanton disregard for international law and contempt for our allies of 50 and 60+ years. 
For instance, the expropriation of natural resources and residual infrastructure in Iraq is completely illegal under both the  Geneva Conventions of 1949, and the Hague Regulations of 1907, and thus the U.S. is in violation of UN Resolution 1483, passed May 2003.
And you call this success?  Success at what?  Being total creeps on the international stage?

I guess for Maxwell wondering why vote for Bush..

he led us successfully through 2 wars
 


I would like to know your defintion of successful. There isn't anyone at all who would say that the wars that are currently being fought were successful.  We have hung our troops in Afghanistan out to dry, they are still there, and dying.  As long as body bags are coming back into the USA everyday, we are a war. A little outfit named Halliburton has the contract to bring the bodies back and ID them before they ship them home to their families.  By the way does anyone remember the name Osama Bin Laden?  It is a name this administration seems to have forgotten. They admitted he has never been to Iraq and was never supported by the Iraqi regime, and they know he has been to Pakistan.  Since they know he was in Pakistan,  they  invaded Iraq, maybe next time they should invade, oh I don't know,  Aruba, they know he's not there either.

If Bush wins, abortion ends.  Pro-death people will have to get over that, pro-lifers are the majority, and if we carry Bush to victory the U.S. Supreme court will overturn Roe Vs. Wade and end the genocide once and for all.  And even better, smaller liberal courts like the 9th circuit court of appeals in San Francisco wouldn't be able to overturn the ruling by the U.S. Supreme court.

''I am all for womens' choices, but against the choices to kill another human being without his/her permission.'' -Rush Limbaugh.

If Bush wins, abortion ends.  Pro-death people will have to get over that, pro-lifers are the majority, and if we carry Bush to victory the U.S. Supreme court will overturn Roe Vs. Wade and end the genocide once and for all.  And even better, smaller liberal courts like the 9th circuit court of appeals in San Francisco wouldn't be able to overturn the ruling by the U.S. Supreme court.

''I am all for womens' choices, but against the choices to kill another human being without his/her permission.'' -Rush Limbaugh.


You really must try to stop using Rush as a moral compass, thrice divorced, drug user that he is.
Nothing is a given in politics, there would have to be retirements or deaths on the court, and a couple of the justices have not decided whether or not they will retire.  I'm sure you will have Scalia though, since he must retain his position in order for his son to remain in his presidential appointment to the department of labor.  The reason for the Constitution and the Bill of Rights is, in the words of our founding fathers, though said while many were slave owners, to protect the minority for the tyranny of the majority, but I'm sure you know and understand that concept, don't you?

When mentioning Bush handling 2 wars that others were wimping out of, his success was he toppled Saddam, he changed the whole taliban situation in Afghanistan...women can now feel better about themselves...IF THE COUNTRY INVOLVED ARE SOOO IGNORANT and start miniwars against US or each other...that's their problem and Bush isn't policing them to change or get out,...He's letting the new government handle things as they want.

Greenspan had good things to say about how the growth of the GDP is part of Bushs' doing .*(Things changed a little in this dept. -I modify this to the growth was not as much as earlier reported..but....still).

Also there has been MORE home ownership during the Bush years...that was another plus for him.

You really must try to stop using Rush as a moral compass, thrice divorced, drug user that he is.
Nothing is a given in politics, there would have to be retirements or deaths on the court, and a couple of the justices have not decided whether or not they will retire.  I'm sure you will have Scalia though, since he must retain his position in order for his son to remain in his presidential appointment to the department of labor.  The reason for the Constitution and the Bill of Rights is, in the words of our founding fathers, though said while many were slave owners, to protect the minority for the tyranny of the majority, but I'm sure you know and understand that concept, don't you?


Amen to that, sister!

If Bush wins, abortion ends.  Pro-death people will have to get over that, pro-lifers are the majority, and if we carry Bush to victory the U.S. Supreme court will overturn Roe Vs. Wade and end the genocide once and for all.  And even better, smaller liberal courts like the 9th circuit court of appeals in San Francisco wouldn't be able to overturn the ruling by the U.S. Supreme court.

''I am all for womens' choices, but against the choices to kill another human being without his/her permission.'' -Rush Limbaugh.


A. women are not incubators.
B. fetuses are not people.
C. Rush Limbaugh doesn't know his @ss from his elbow.

Remember, overturning Roe vs. Wade will not make abortion illegal nationwide.  It will leave it up to the states.  As it is there are whole swaths of the country, particularly in the Bible belt, where abortion is unavailable because clinics refuse to provide them.  Women already must travel a hundred or more miles at times to avail themselves of abortion.  If Roe vs. Wade were overturned, the state of Mississippi, for instance, could declare abortion illegal.  A woman may have to then travel to the next state where abortion is legal, be it Tennessee, Florida, or Illinoise.
If Roe vs. Wade gets overturned the next goal the anti-choicers will set is a FEDERAL prohibition of abortion.  The more abortion is restricted, the more women...and fetuses...will DIE in "back alley" abortions that are septic, toxic, and/or traumatic.  Women of means will just fly to Canada (or even better, sneak an abortion through their private gynecologists).
If your daughter informs you she will have an abortion one way or another, you will buy her a plane ticket.

BTW, I shouldn't even address this, but per Rush Lame-o's quote, does he then favor "killing" with his/her permission, as in assisted suicide?

When mentioning Bush handling 2 wars that others were wimping out of, his success was he toppled Saddam, he changed the whole taliban situation in Afghanistan...women can now feel better about themselves...IF THE COUNTRY INVOLVED ARE SOOO IGNORANT and start miniwars against US or each other...that's their problem and Bush isn't policing them to change or get out,...He's letting the new government handle things as they want.

Greenspan had good things to say about how the growth of the GNP is part of Bushs' doing .

Also there has been MORE home ownership during the Bush years...that was another plus for him.

You didn't listen to a word I said, m'friend!

When mentioning Bush handling 2 wars that others were wimping out of, his success was he toppled Saddam, he changed the whole taliban situation in Afghanistan...women can now feel better about themselves...IF THE COUNTRY INVOLVED ARE SOOO IGNORANT and start miniwars against US or each other...that's their problem and Bush isn't policing them to change or get out,...He's letting the new government handle things as they want.

Greenspan had good things to say about how the growth of the GNP is part of Bushs' doing .

Also there has been MORE home ownership during the Bush years...that was another plus for him.


Maybe, but the recent numbers for the last quarter did not meet expectations, only 36,000 jobs were created, not the 120,000 predicted, and 1.3 million more people are below the poverty line than in 2002.  In addition, the number without health insruance also jumped by over a million.  Greenspan is also suggeasting that Social Security will not be able to meet its obligations TO ME.  And this is a recovery?

Maybe, but the recent numbers for the last quarter did not meet expectations, only 36,000 jobs were created, not the 120,000 predicted, and 1.3 million more people are below the poverty line than in 2002.  In addition, the number without health insruance also jumped by over a million.  Greenspan is also suggeasting that Social Security will not be able to meet its obligations TO ME.  And this is a recovery?

Alan Greenspan talking to George Bush about the economy is like Hannibal Lector talking to Jeffrey Dahmer about supper!
:P

If Bush wins, abortion ends.  Pro-death people will have to get over that, pro-lifers are the majority, and if we carry Bush to victory the U.S. Supreme court will overturn Roe Vs. Wade and end the genocide once and for all.  And even better, smaller liberal courts like the 9th circuit court of appeals in San Francisco wouldn't be able to overturn the ruling by the U.S. Supreme court.

''I am all for womens' choices, but against the choices to kill another human being without his/her permission.'' -Rush Limbaugh.


It's funny that those who arguement against abortion 1) never carried a child and 2) are for the death penalty and war. If you are against the taking of life in one issue, then you have to be the same way for all life issues!

Pro-choice people are for choice. If you want to keep your child, fine. If you want to place it for adoption, fine. If you want to abort it, fine. That's the definition. Honestly, our schools need working b/c I'm seriously getting sick of those too ignorant to logically think of issues, but somehow figure out to open their mouths anyway.

BTW, a man has no control of my body. If he tries, it'll be his dying day.

Tanya

It's funny that those who arguement against abortion 1) never carried a child and 2) are for the death penalty and war. If you are against the taking of life in one issue, then you have to be the same way for all life issues!

Pro-choice people are for choice. If you want to keep your child, fine. If you want to place it for adoption, fine. If you want to abort it, fine. That's the definition. Honestly, our schools need working b/c I'm seriously getting sick of those too ignorant to logically think of issues, but somehow figure out to open their mouths anyway.

BTW, a man has no control of my body. If he tries, it'll be his dying day.

Tanya


I agree with all but your last sentence, unless I'm misunderstanding you.  Could you elaborate?

When mentioning Bush handling 2 wars that others were wimping out of, his success was he toppled Saddam, he changed the whole taliban situation in Afghanistan...women can now feel better about themselves...IF THE COUNTRY INVOLVED ARE SOOO IGNORANT and start miniwars against US or each other...that's their problem and Bush isn't policing them to change or get out,...He's letting the new government handle things as they want.

Greenspan had good things to say about how the growth of the GNP is part of Bushs' doing .

Also there has been MORE home ownership during the Bush years...that was another plus for him.


Page one Patriot.  It pays to read beyond the headlines.  You are skimming the surface of world politics
and it shows.

Max.. I read your comments..YOU felt the war was a disaster...it is still unfolding..you're dealng with 3rd worlders...how about the footage of residents getting their houses that were bombed 'made over like new'-(like the reality makeover show craze here).

When completed, they sacrafice a CHICKEN and rub it's blood on the house...
yeah,...in the year 2004!!!!!

If you are happy that we went into someplace to save the citizens from a tyrant that may be your reason for voting for a chief of command such as GWB. If you were fortunate to get into a new home and got a good deal...again vote on this...if you had your money cut for overtime or are in fear of it..is Kerry your answer? Go ahead vote for him!
It gets around to 'anyone but Bush' again...
I don't prefer either which is how I would vote at this point...

Even though Tony Snow is ridiculed for something he may have said, the comment on Kerry having 6 different stories on Cambodia stuff may be recorded by someone out there.
Ok George was in the guard,...is there a flock of former guardsmen denying being with him - even if he sealed envelopes...he isn't being massively refuted..That's another thing that bothers  meof Kerry..each time something negative comes out of his various stands on what he would do..

We're almost there! Curious to see if the other persons post on watching the Dow after the REP. Con. will predetermine who will be picked???They say it has usually been right???
     

..is there a flock of former guardsmen denying being with him - even if he sealed envelopes...he isn't being massively refuted..
     


Uhhh..Yeah!!!  He has been refuted.  A flock of former guardsmen say he never showed up when he was supposed to, and that has been proven to be the case.  Where have you been?

Max.. I read your comments..YOU felt the war was a disaster...it is still unfolding..you're dealng with 3rd worlders...how about the footage of residents getting their houses that were bombed 'made over like new'-(like the reality makeover show craze here).
You're dealing with an utterly devastated and ruined nation, not a nascent capitalist utopia, as the delusional neocons seemed to think.

When completed, they sacrafice a CHICKEN and rub it's blood on the house...
yeah,...in the year 2004!!!!!
Is that an weirder than the eucharist?

If you are happy that we went into someplace to save the citizens from a tyrant that may be your reason for voting for a chief of command such as GWB. If you were fortunate to get into a new home and got a good deal...again vote on this...if you had your money cut for overtime or are in fear of it..is Kerry your answer? Go ahead vote for him!
It gets around to 'anyone but Bush' again...
I don't prefer either which is how I would vote at this point...
You think we went over there because people were being ruled by a tyrant?  Anyway, my credit rating is so so far in the negative because of student loan defaults, I'll never be able to buy a house.

Even though Tony Snow is ridiculed for something he may have said, the comment on Kerry having 6 different stories on Cambodia stuff may be recorded by someone out there.
Ok George was in the guard,...is there a flock of former guardsmen denying being with him - even if he sealed envelopes...he isn't being massively refuted..That's another thing that bothers  meof Kerry..each time something negative comes out of his various stands on what he would do..
Frankly, my dear, I don't give a d*mn!

We're almost there! Curious to see if the other persons post on watching the Dow after the REP. Con. will predetermine who will be picked???They say it has usually been right???
       

The Dow is just a number, election fraud is a crime.

I agree with all but your last sentence, unless I'm misunderstanding you.  Could you elaborate?


Certainly. I just found that most of those against it are male. Being that most of the lawmakers are male, there are just some things I will not let them control. By making abortion illegal, it would let them say whether or not, I have a baby, in the best or worst situations. For example, I wouldn't want to be assaulted and forced to carry a baby that may result in that assault b/c someone in a suit who doesn't know my plight told me I must do so.

I hope I cleared it up. Did I Don Carlos?

Tanya

Certainly. I just found that most of those against it are male. Being that most of the lawmakers are male, there are just some things I will not let them control. By making abortion illegal, it would let them say whether or not, I have a baby, in the best or worst situations. For example, I wouldn't want to be assaulted and forced to carry a baby that may result in that assault b/c someone in a suit who doesn't know my plight told me I must do so.

I hope I cleared it up. Did I Don Carlos?

Tanya

I dunno, you'll find some raging anti-choicers out there who are women.  Ever heard of "The Daughters of the American Revolution"?
:o

I have to agree with Carlos on this one.  There are just as many anti choice women.  It is telling, though,
it is the males who seem to dominate the political groups that are established in the anti choice move
ment. The reason why should be addressed to the anti-choice women.

I dunno, you'll find some raging anti-choicers out there who are women.  Ever heard of "The Daughters of the American Revolution"?
:o


Yes, I've heard of them. They've been on my sh@# list since they hindered Marian Anderson from performing back in 1939. I find it unfortunate to have many women against anti-choice. It is truly bothersome.

Tanya

Certainly. I just found that most of those against it are male. Being that most of the lawmakers are male, there are just some things I will not let them control. By making abortion illegal, it would let them say whether or not, I have a baby, in the best or worst situations. For example, I wouldn't want to be assaulted and forced to carry a baby that may result in that assault b/c someone in a suit who doesn't know my plight told me I must do so.

I hope I cleared it up. Did I Don Carlos?

Tanya


Yeah, you are saying that you don't want men controlling your body.  I'm on your side on that 1 100%.  Thanks.

Yes, I've heard of them. They've been on my sh@# list since they hindered Marian Anderson from performing back in 1939. I find it unfortunate to have many women against anti-choice. It is truly bothersome.

Tanya


You mean "against pro-choice".  Opposing "anti-choice" is what you, I and several others are advocating.  We all goof now and then  ;)