To me, this is yet more of how Kerry will lie or say anything to become President.

Here are 2 quotes by him, both claiming he was in Cambodia:

"I remember spending Christmas Eve of 1968 five miles across the Cambodian border being shot at by our South Vietnamese allies who were drunk and celebrating Christmas. The absurdity of almost being killed by our own allies in a country in which President Nixon claimed there were no American troops was very real."
Interview in the Boston Herald, 1979

"Mr. President, I remember Christmas of 1968 sitting on a gunboat in Cambodia. I remember what it was like to be shot at by Vietnamese and Khmer Rouge and Cambodians, and have the President of the United States telling the American people that I was not there; the troops were not in Cambodia. I have that memory which is seared-seared-in me, that says to me, before we send another generation into harm's way we have a responsibility in the U.S. Senate to go the last step, to make the best effort possible in order to avoid that kind of conflict."
Congressional Record, 27 March 1986

Now ignore the fact that in 1968, Lyndon Johnson was President at this time, not Richard Nixon.

Every official report of the boat's location says it was never in Cambodia.  All of his commanding officers all the way up his chain of command say he was never ordered to Cambodia.  Add to this, 3 of his own boat crew members state that they were not in Cambodia at this time, but at Sa Dec, 55 miles inside Vietnam.

Once again, when confronted with this, Kerry tried to deny he ever said he was in Cambodia.  Then he waffled, saying he may have said it, but did not mean it.  It really makes you wonder if you can believe anything he says.

Mushroom, you know I agree with you but you haven't figured it out yet?  KERRY IS A LIAR and if president Bush had done this instead of Kerry we would hear about it until 8 p.m. November 2nd.

If Kerry's camp can't produce proof he was in Cambodia, then the old boy's got egg on his face.  However, I'm not concerned about a lie Kerry told in 1986.

Right now our country is in a world of woes because of the Bush Administration.  Bush has been bad for America in every way I can measure.

If they want to cost Kerry my vote, they're going to have to come up with something little stronger, maybe a photo of Kerry mowing down Vietnamese children.  HOWEVER, Bush will get my vote when hell freezes over.

This is problematic.  It is quite clear that military records were falsified to hid our illegal incursions into Cambodia, which were quite real.  Whether Kerry was one of those who made the incursions is, I think, irrelevant, since with falsified records, the truth will never (probably) be known.  Incursions were made under both Nixon and Johnson, so I think it somewhat unfair to call Kerry a liar under these circumstances.  Weopons of mass destruction anyone?

This is problematic.  It is quite clear that military records were falsified to hid our illegal incursions into Cambodia, which were quite real.  Whether Kerry was one of those who made the incursions is, I think, irrelevant, since with falsified records, the truth will never (probably) be known.  Incursions were made under both Nixon and Johnson, so I think it somewhat unfair to call Kerry a liar under these circumstances.  Weopons of mass destruction anyone?

Indeed, good point!

Whether Kerry was one of those who made the incursions is, I think, irrelevant, since with falsified records, the truth will never (probably) be known.


SO it's easier to imagine EVERYBODY is lying, except him?

And yea, he was in Cambodia.  And Nixon was President and denying it...

SO it's easier to imagine EVERYBODY is lying, except him?

And yea, he was in Cambodia.  And Nixon was President and denying it...


The truth is that EVERYBODY was lying.  We did make illegal and serupticious incursions into Cambodia, and we did hide the truth.  I don't know or care if Kerry was ordered to make some of those incursions.  They HAPPENED, and that's the point.

It is very easy to find a vet who was in Cambodia when Nixon said he wasn't in Cambodia.
I have often thought that there would be a perfect place for the POW/MIA groups to shift there focus.  Of course with the USA's support of Pol Pot and the subsequent genocide, it would be hard to figure out whose bones are whose.

It is very easy to find a vet who was in Cambodia when Nixon said he wasn't in Cambodia.
I have often thought that there would be a perfect place for the POW/MIA groups to shift there focus.  Of course with the USA's support of Pol Pot and the subsequent genocide, it would be hard to figure out whose bones are whose.



Any dictator (including Saddam) who can afford a pair of sun glasses and will make his country safe for coka cola.

Once again, right on sister.

SO it's easier to imagine EVERYBODY is lying, except him?

And yea, he was in Cambodia.  And Nixon was President and denying it...

You won't find me defending Johnson's Vietnam policies either.  Look, I'm prepared for three months of the most contrived and dastardly attacks on Kerry until Election Day.  Heritage, American Enterprise, Mellon-Scaife, the RNC, and a dozen other dens of iniquity will stop at nothing to to destroy Kerry.  SBVB* is just a tool of bigger evil operatives.

*Swift Boat Veterans for Bush
;D

Well, since Kerry himself is saying that he was not in Cambodia now, I guess he is another of those liars.  Never mind that he has also tried to deny that he ever made the statements that he was ever in Cambodia in the first place.

Well, since Kerry himself is saying that he was not in Cambodia now, I guess he is another of those liars.  Never mind that he has also tried to deny that he ever made the statements that he was ever in Cambodia in the first place.


The CIA's air force was active in Cambodia for some time during the nam war, and the regular air force bombed Cambodian targets, their orders changed after taking off.  These facts have been documented.  So have the facts that US swift boats operated at least very close to the Cambodian boarder, if not inside Cambodia.  This is not like driving from VT to CA, where each state's boarder is announced with a sign.  We're talking about operating in the jungle. 

Seems to me that some people use the word "lie" in a very loose way when it comes to quoting Kerry, but in a very limited way when it comes to Lil' Georgie.  Do I detect a double standard here, based purely on a partisan agenda?

The CIA's air force was active in Cambodia for some time during the nam war, and the regular air force bombed Cambodian targets, their orders changed after taking off.  These facts have been documented.  So have the facts that US swift boats operated at least very close to the Cambodian boarder, if not inside Cambodia.  This is not like driving from VT to CA, where each state's boarder is announced with a sign.  We're talking about operating in the jungle. 

Seems to me that some people use the word "lie" in a very loose way when it comes to quoting Kerry, but in a very limited way when it comes to Lil' Georgie.  Do I detect a double standard here, based purely on a partisan agenda?

Hey, don't knock it!  That illegal carpet bombing of Cambodia won ol' Hank Kissinger the Nobel Peace Prize! 
Let's assume Kerry's lying.  What does Kerry gain by saying he was in Cambodia when he wasn't?
Regarding Bush and the word "lie," I quote Tom Waits,
"I ain't never told the truth, so how the h*ll could I tell a lie?"

The CIA's air force was active in Cambodia for some time during the nam war, and the regular air force bombed Cambodian targets, their orders changed after taking off.  These facts have been documented.  So have the facts that US swift boats operated at least very close to the Cambodian boarder, if not inside Cambodia.  This is not like driving from VT to CA, where each state's boarder is announced with a sign.  We're talking about operating in the jungle. 

Seems to me that some people use the word "lie" in a very loose way when it comes to quoting Kerry, but in a very limited way when it comes to Lil' Georgie.  Do I detect a double standard here, based purely on a partisan agenda?


I never denied that there were troops in Cambodia.  There were troops there, and it was well documented.  To me, that is not the issue.

There was an extensive report on this story on one of the news channels, I forget if it was CNN or Fox.  But the river that Kerry was on at the time had large cement obsticles placed in it 5 miles downstream from the border.  This was done roughtly 2 years before Kerry even reported to Viet Nam.  They were also mined, to prevent the VC from useing it to infiltrate in anything larger then a canoe.

I think what bothers me is how Kerry says one thing, then says another, then refutes everything and makes a third claim.  This is the type of politics I find most dispicable.  He made the claims in the 1970's, then tried to deny making them more recently.  He now claims he was never there, which means that his earlier speaches were all nothing but political grandstanding.

When it comes to such behavior, I do not care a whit for political party.  I do not vote "by party", but by belief.  I have voted for Democrats in the past (most notably Diane Feinstein when she ran against Michael Huffington), and I probably will do so again.

If I was born a generation earlier, I could see myself supporting JFK, a Conservative Democrat.  One of his closest friends when he was a Senator was (believe it or not) Richard Nixon, a Liberal Republican.  I do not think much of Jimmy Carter, but he was an honest man of integrity, who did what he thought was right.  I just feel he was not strong enough for the time.  4 years earlier, he might have been a great choice, but the economy and Iran killed him.

Just today, Dush announced that he is pulling 2 Divisions of the US Army out of Germany, and more troops are going to be pulled out of Japan.  While most of the military seems to support this move (Germany is unified and the cold war is over), Wesley Clarke is saying it is foolish.  But I myself wonder why our troops are needed there in such large numbers.

Having spent over a year in Japan, it is a rather foolish waste of troops.  Let them come home.  That way when they need to spend time in places like Iran, they get to spend more time with their family first.  I know how this can be first hand.  I returned from 7 months in Japan in July 1990.  Less then a month home, Iraq invaded Quwait, and were were once again sent overseas.

I never denied that there were troops in Cambodia.  There were troops there, and it was well documented.  To me, that is not the issue.

There was an extensive report on this story on one of the news channels, I forget if it was CNN or Fox.  But the river that Kerry was on at the time had large cement obsticles placed in it 5 miles downstream from the border.  This was done roughtly 2 years before Kerry even reported to Viet Nam.  They were also mined, to prevent the VC from useing it to infiltrate in anything larger then a canoe.

I think what bothers me is how Kerry says one thing, then says another, then refutes everything and makes a third claim.  This is the type of politics I find most dispicable.  He made the claims in the 1970's, then tried to deny making them more recently.  He now claims he was never there, which means that his earlier speaches were all nothing but political grandstanding.

When it comes to such behavior, I do not care a whit for political party.  I do not vote "by party", but by belief.  I have voted for Democrats in the past (most notably Diane Feinstein when she ran against Michael Huffington), and I probably will do so again.

If I was born a generation earlier, I could see myself supporting JFK, a Conservative Democrat.  One of his closest friends when he was a Senator was (believe it or not) Richard Nixon, a Liberal Republican.  I do not think much of Jimmy Carter, but he was an honest man of integrity, who did what he thought was right.  I just feel he was not strong enough for the time.  4 years earlier, he might have been a great choice, but the economy and Iran killed him.

Just today, Dush announced that he is pulling 2 Divisions of the US Army out of Germany, and more troops are going to be pulled out of Japan.  While most of the military seems to support this move (Germany is unified and the cold war is over), Wesley Clarke is saying it is foolish.  But I myself wonder why our troops are needed there in such large numbers.

Having spent over a year in Japan, it is a rather foolish waste of troops.  Let them come home.  That way when they need to spend time in places like Iran, they get to spend more time with their family first.  I know how this can be first hand.  I returned from 7 months in Japan in July 1990.  Less then a month home, Iraq invaded Quwait, and were were once again sent overseas.

I appreciate your sincerity, but, to me, this whole SBVT campaign stinks of a right-wing defamatory conspiracy.  Again, I ask, what does it benefit Kerry to like about Cambodia?  And even if he is lying, big deal, they all do it.  I mean, if Kerry was the first politician to lie--make that the first politician to lie in the past 30 days--his mendacity might be shocking.  As is, politicians lie.  Deal with it.  I'm still not convinced it's Kerry who is lying.

I like "Dush" though.  The perfect contraction of "Duh" and "Bush."
::)

At least we KNOW he lied BEFORE the election...unlike "Billary"...as for double standards it goes BOTH ways :-\\

Max asks a valid question.  How does it profit Kerry to assert that he was in Cambodia if he wasn't?  Politicians lie for a purpose, like to start a war or to cover up a scandle.  So why would Kerry Lie about Cambodia?  To get caught and give republilcans another way to bash him?

At least we KNOW he lied BEFORE the election...unlike "Billary"...as for double standards it goes BOTH ways :-\\

My point is, it's best to assume politicians lie.

Max asks a valid question.  How does it profit Kerry to assert that he was in Cambodia if he wasn't?  Politicians lie for a purpose, like to start a war or to cover up a scandle.  So why would Kerry Lie about Cambodia?  To get caught and give republilcans another way to bash him?


Both claims that he was IN Cambodia were early in his political career.

The first was in 1978, to a newspaper reporter.  That one does not bother me as much, since he was a civilian at the t1me.

To me, the more troubling claim was the one when he was in Congress.  In 1986 he made the claim again, and it is entered into the Congressional Record.  That is the one that bothers me the most.  It shows intentional deception in order to try and get what he wants.

That he now denies that he was ever in Cambodia and that he ever made the statements is silly.  "Swift Boat Veterans" is the one that made his statements public and asked for him to explain them, since nobody else on his or any other boats in his squadron remembers being in Cambodia.  He could have just said "I was making a statement to make a point, and I exagerated".  I could even have accepted that, because exageration is part of politics.

But instead, he denied that he had ever made the statement that he was in Cambodia.  *THAT* is what bothers me.  Remember, when he made the statements, he probably had no idea that he would later become a serious candidate for President.  And Mr. Kerry had a great excuse, by simply claiming "youthfull exageration".  Instead, he slaims the statements were never made, adding one lie on-top of another (or an exageration).  If he had just "come clean", I would have just let it go.

Max asks a valid question.  How does it profit Kerry to assert that he was in Cambodia if he wasn't?  Politicians lie for a purpose, like to start a war or to cover up a scandle.  So why would Kerry Lie about Cambodia?  To get caught and give republilcans another way to bash him?


Politicians have a nasty habit of hyperbole to try and pander to whomever it is that, at the moment, they wish to pander to.  So, many years ago, he told the story about being in Cambodia on 12/24/1968 being attacked by the Khmer Rouge and how Nixon was denying all of that.  And with the group that he was telling the whopper to, who was gonna check the facts?  (Although the Nixon thing is kind of obvious).

Now it is 2004, and now LOTS of people are available to "check the facts".  Like my Mum always told me, "When you lie it will eventually get out of your control."

Now what amazes me is that people have their knickers in a twist over our Cambodian operations at that time.  The North Vietnamese had military bases and supply lines established in eastern Cambodia, with a "wink and a nod" by Prince Sihanouk's government (which officially was neutral, but unofficially was getting payola and weapons from China and Moscow).  So we sent troops in to fight the NVA, who were launching raids into South Vietnam against American (and SVA) troops.  I'd be PO'd if we DIDN'T attack an enemy who was hiding across the border and launching raids.

Why do politicians lie?  Because they want to look bigger than they really are, and because they think they can get away with it.  Neither party has a monopoly on lying, either.

Whether Kerry lied or not about being in Cambodia in 1968 is really not a major issue. If he did lie- NEWS FLASH: A politican lied! Like that has never happened before. And even if he did lie-it was something that happened in 1968! In 1968, I was walking to school in 10 feet of snow-up hill both ways-barefoot. So what? Did he commit a crime by lying that he was in Cambodia? I think not. Now, if he lied about his income on his taxes, then that would be a crime and he should be held accountable. If his lie caused harm to others,-then again, he should be held accountable. But, IF, and I do mean IF he lied about this, BIG DEAL! But, Kerry may have actually been in Cambodia but why should that matter now.



Cat

Whether Kerry lied or not about being in Cambodia in 1968 is really not a major issue. If he did lie- NEWS FLASH: A politican lied! Like that has never happened before. And even if he did lie-it was something that happened in 1968! In 1968, I was walking to school in 10 feet of snow-up hill both ways-barefoot. So what? Did he commit a crime by lying that he was in Cambodia? I think not. Now, if he lied about his income on his taxes, then that would be a crime and he should be held accountable. If his lie caused harm to others,-then again, he should be held accountable. But, IF, and I do mean IF he lied about this, BIG DEAL! But, Kerry may have actually been in Cambodia but why should that matter now.



Cat
What makes me cringe about Kerry is him standing on the podium saying..."I am reporting for duty"....what a crock ::)

Whether Kerry lied or not about being in Cambodia in 1968 is really not a major issue. If he did lie- NEWS FLASH: A politican lied! Like that has never happened before. And even if he did lie-it was something that happened in 1968! In 1968, I was walking to school in 10 feet of snow-up hill both ways-barefoot. So what? Did he commit a crime by lying that he was in Cambodia? I think not. Now, if he lied about his income on his taxes, then that would be a crime and he should be held accountable. If his lie caused harm to others,-then again, he should be held accountable. But, IF, and I do mean IF he lied about this, BIG DEAL! But, Kerry may have actually been in Cambodia but why should that matter now.

Cat


If he told the lie back in '68, I would agree with you.

But he has continued to tell it.  He says "That Christmas Eve is seared into my mind".

What kind of "soap" was he trying to sell when he kept telling the lie and why did he have to lie about Cambodia to sell it?  Especially the Nixon part which we KNOW is not factual?

What was that book somebody wrote about "Lies and the Lying Liars that Lie About Them" (or something like that)

BIG DEAL! But, Kerry may have actually been in Cambodia but why should that matter now.




 

The same reason people talk about Bush in the National Guard I guess.  Kerry has an easy way to resolve this, he just won't.

What makes me cringe about Kerry is him standing on the podium saying..."I am reporting for duty"....what a crock ::)

Yeah, that was pretty darn hokey.  I wish he'd knock it off.

GWBush2004 wroteThe same reason people talk about Bush in the National Guard I guess.  Kerry has an easy way to resolve this, he just won't.
Ain't it funny how much time the "liberal media" gives SBVT compared to those investigating Bush's absence from the National Guard?

My point is, it's best to assume politicians lie.
We can definately agree on that!

 

The same reason people talk about Bush in the National Guard I guess.  Kerry has an easy way to resolve this, he just won't.




Well, he  did ask that the campaign avoid negetivity, and wouldn't you scream if he did contrast his record with your' boy's?  Bumped up over at least 150 others on the list?  Promoted to 2 ltd after basic?  Refusing med exams which tested for drug use?  Probably AWOL for a good part of the out of Yexas tour?  Quite a record of heroism, wouldn't you say?  His easy answer is to lable GWB for the sniviling coward that he was/is.  Didn't he say something like he didn't want to shoot himself in the foot, so he joined the National Guard?

Why bring it up even tho it is old seems to be the point of the discussion....

I guess when Kerry is turning his military record into one of the challenges of the race...all gloves are off!

He said to Bush to BRING IT ON, and hmmmm,...look at all the lies and bodies involved who were there to refute the Kerry claim 200+

And how about Kerry supporting the NAFTA thing and making 'nice' to Cuba??
That's some guy to vote for!

Guess we'll have to take his word he was on a secret mission with no documentation and anyone else to confirm it...DID SOMEONE SAY LYING IS PART OF POLITICS? So,WHAT'S THE DIF?


*By the way, anyone else hear of the 59 lies in Farenheit 9/11?
Should be posted on the Larry Elder web site(maybe get it through KABC radio.com) :o 

Why bring it up even tho it is old seems to be the point of the discussion....

I guess when Kerry is turning his military record into one of the challenges of the race...all gloves are off!

He said to Bush to BRING IT ON, and hmmmm,...look at all the lies and bodies involved who were there to refute the Kerry claim 200+

And how about Kerry supporting the NAFTA thing and making 'nice' to Cuba??
That's some guy to vote for!

Guess we'll have to take his word he was on a secret mission with no documentation and anyone else to confirm it...DID SOMEONE SAY LYING IS PART OF POLITICS? So,WHAT'S THE DIF?


*By the way, anyone else hear of the 59 lies in Farenheit 9/11?
Should be posted on the Larry Elder web site(maybe get it through KABC radio.com) :o 

This whole Vietnam issue is nothing more than a distraction.  "Anybody but Bush" is a valid reason to vote for Kerry, and that ought to scare the heck out of the Bush campaign.
What "NAFTA thing" are you referring to?  I heard Kerry say he was going to continue to be tough on Cuba.  I think that's a waste of resources.  Castro is not going to be in power forever, and when he dies, Communism will die in Cuba as it has in most of the world.